Valar Guild

January 20, 2013 Sunday Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by Ar-Pharazon and Varda.

Attending: (7)
    Ariehn V, ArPharazonV, EonweValar, fladrifv, Glorfindel VG, GwaihirValar, VardaValar1 (presiding)

Before-meeting
Meeting begins
Membership:
    Finarfin
    Fladrif
Web:
    Art from Elatan-(T)
    Article from Arien-(Valar)
    Poetry from Hoegard Harfoot
    Link from Meriadoc-(V)
    AIM fix
Gaming:
    misc. including flashgame links, chess, BroodWar.
    WoW
    LotRO
Tolkien:
    Topic: Started with what happened in January 3019 and wound up finding a possible trend in the writing.
After-meeting:
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Before-meeting:
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya to Ar-Pharazon the Golden. :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
VardaValar1: *slips away to grab a bite to eat, in the Shire of course*
ArPharazonV: Just finishing up a scenario.
VardaValar1: neat. (back)
Glorfindel VG has entered the room.
Glorfindel VG: aiya!
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
VardaValar1: Aiya Glorfindel :-)
VardaValar1: Arien is having trouble entering the chat.
VardaValar1: She's doing that thing that doesn't have a Group Chat option showing. What was that?
GwaihirValar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: I'm not sure what you're talking about there.
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya Gwaihir and Eonwe.
Eonwe Valar: Heya.
VardaValar1: Aiya Eonwe :-)
VardaValar1: Arien is having trouble entering. No Group Option showing.
VardaValar1: Aiya Gwaihir :-)
ArPharazonV: Arien does not appear online on my bu.. ah, there she is.
ArPharazonV: And she's gone again.
VardaValar1: She re-logged trying to fix it.
ArPharazonV: Ah.
ArPharazonV: Saw Fladrif though.
fladrifv has left the room.
VardaValar1: Seems like the last time that happened the person tried to come in through the browser.
VardaValar1: Flad and Gilraen have invites, possibly crossed up between Eonwe's and mine. :-)
VardaValar1: She says she's just using the chat program.
VardaValar1: Any ideas?
ArPharazonV: I'm not even sure how you can try to come in through the browser. And of course I don't have your versions.
VardaValar1: Fladrif can't enter either.
VardaValar1: There's an Option at the top for New Group Chat. Giving that a shot.
VardaValar1: Arien says the Option only gives her another IM window.
VardaValar1: Trying Settings
VardaValar1: We're not getting anywhere.
VardaValar1: We'll try some relay stuff.
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VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Membership:
Eonwe Valar: "New Group Chat" should be the one that lets you make/enter a chat room.
VardaValar1: Finarfin-(V) returned to LotRO after a long absence, although he has emailed.
VardaValar1: Aye, Eonwe. Didn't work. Maybe I explained it wrong if you'd like to give a suggestion in IM to them?
VardaValar1: Any other membership news?
VardaValar1: Web:
VardaValar1: We have a nice collection of Tolkien Site items that came in over the week.
VardaValar1: Art by Elatan-(V), a mosaic:
VardaValar1: It's not small either!
VardaValar1: "Véantur and Entulassé coming to Mithlond with the tower of the Palantiri behind."
VardaValar1: http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/art/gallery/Elatan/mosaics/mosaics.htm#Veantur
VardaValar1: Click the thumbnail to enlarge.
VardaValar1: Too bad we can't have Arien here. She wrote a fine article "Thorin Oakenshield".
VardaValar1: http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/articles/t/ThorinA.htm
VardaValar1: Maybe you can give her an IM commenting on it. : )
VardaValar1: We also have a new poetry contributor: Hoegard Harfoot from LotRO who gave us permission to put poetry on our site.
VardaValar1: "The Horse Banner"
VardaValar1: http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/poetry/TheHorseBanner.htm
VardaValar1: "Rohan Green"
VardaValar1: http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/poetry/RohanGreen.htm
VardaValar1: "Time for Tea"
VardaValar1: http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/poetry/TimeForTea.htm
VardaValar1: "The Journey"
VardaValar1: http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/poetry/TheJourney.htm
VardaValar1: "The Minstrel's Monument"
VardaValar1: http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/poetry/TheMinstrelsMonument.htm
VardaValar1: "Time for a Pipe"
VardaValar1: http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/poetry/TimeForAPipe.htm
VardaValar1: "Annúminas"
VardaValar1: http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/poetry/Annuminas.htm
VardaValar1: "Remembered"
VardaValar1: http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/poetry/Remembered.htm
VardaValar1: There's more but that should be enough to read for a bit. :-)
VardaValar1: Meriadoc-(V) suggested a fun link: A lawyer's detailed analysis of Bilbo's contract in The Hobbit
VardaValar1: http://www.wired.com/underwire/2013/01/hobbit-contract-legal-analysis/
VardaValar1: Ok, that's all the web news from here. : )
ArPharazonV: Read that one, it's quite entertaining.
VardaValar1: O good. : )
ArPharazonV: As in "I read that one", not "You should read that one" though I guess that counts too :-)
VardaValar1: I did read it and quite agree!
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VardaValar1: Gaming:
VardaValar1: Any non-WoW, non-LotRO gaming news?
ArPharazonV: Sure.
VardaValar1: Fire away!
ArPharazonV: First: Did a bunch of flashgaming, and decided to make an account on the Kongregate website, so now badges and achievements I earn can help me "level" that account (there doesn't seem to be a benefit to that, but it's nice to try), and I've been browsing around the games for that purpose, even more than usual ;-)
VardaValar1: So they did a good scheme there. : )
ArPharazonV: Also reinstalled and tried a bunch of games this week, continuing from last week; started with Diablo 3, which is now all patched and ready to go whenever I feel like it :-)
ArPharazonV: Yes. I'm sure there might be premium features too, but for now all I've done is free :-)
ArPharazonV: I've also spent a few days trying to get the Rayman series (1, 2 and 3) back on my pc. Quite tricky, that, since they're pretty old.
VardaValar1: Need a simulator?
ArPharazonV: Had to get Dosbox, a sort of Dos emulator, working right, for Rayman 1, but I've got it working fine now; and Rayman 2 needed a patch to work for later Windows systems it seems, which meant I lost my old savegames, including a 97% complete one...
VardaValar1: Ouch!
ArPharazonV: But it might be fun to start all over again :-)
VardaValar1: There's that.
ArPharazonV: I didn't exactly lose the savegames, but there seems to be some bug on them which puts a big pirate head on your screen with a "cd missing" error which makes it very hard to play, so I can't use them :-)
ArPharazonV: And number 3 went rather fine compared to its predecessors, so they're all ready!
VardaValar1: Yay!
VardaValar1: Relaying from Fladrif:
VardaValar1: fladrifv: chess is still waiting for the next round
VardaValar1: fladrifv: and my loudspeakers are making progress :-)
VardaValar1: fladrifv: building my own
VardaValar1: fladrifv: searching for some nice dragon designs for on the sides
ArPharazonV: Building his own speakers? Nice.
VardaValar1: fladrifv: ill send soon some pictures of the assembled units
VardaValar1: Prints in tape form that he can put on the loudspeakers. Something really new.
VardaValar1: fladrifv: if ppl are interested they can always contact me

VardaValar1: Eonwe remembered where we saw the AIM problem before.
VardaValar1: Go ahead, Eonwe.
Eonwe Valar: It seems the best/quickest way to deal with AIM issues is to download the AIM version under "Legacy downloads". The several I've helped with problems seem to just get it from the front page, so going to the Legacy Downloads section is important. Version 7.5.14.8.
VardaValar1: Thank you, Eonwe. : )
Eonwe Valar: MP.
VardaValar1: Back to Gaming : )
VardaValar1: BroodWar here. Sauron beat the team of Fangorn and Varda, taking us out one at a time. We also did a lot of cooperative play together.

VardaValar1: WoW:
VardaValar1: Eonwe, you had something to mention for WoW?
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
Eonwe Valar: Lunar Festival is coming up.
Eonwe Valar: Be ready for the fun :}
VardaValar1: Yay! : )
VardaValar1: Did anyone else have any WoW news, comments?
ArPharazonV: I started Operation: Shieldwall?
ArPharazonV: It's pretty interesting!
VardaValar1: Phar mentioned that he was doing a scenario, finishing up at the start of the meeting.
VardaValar1: How do you start that?
ArPharazonV: Oh, yes. Scenarios are like really short dungeons you can queue up for, for a few valor points.
ArPharazonV: Operation: Shieldwall?
ArPharazonV: That's the big Patch 5.1 storyline, which means most people will already have done it, but eh, I had other stuff to do.
ArPharazonV: Quests and daily quests and new reputation factions and equipment rewards and a big epic storyline.
ArPharazonV: It starts with a quest you get automatically when you enter the capital, so shouldn't be too hard to start.
VardaValar1: Ah ok, thanks.

VardaValar1: LotRO:
VardaValar1: Mostly folks have been running the Barad Guldur instance famring the first boss or doing the full clear.
VardaValar1: Of the three mans, I see Iorbar's Peak most often called for in kin and outside.
VardaValar1: More of us have finished Hytbold or nearly have and looking at those instances for the next main thing to occupy the high levels.
VardaValar1: We also have a good crop of younger folk, some needing lower instances that we need to work with as well.
VardaValar1: We also have alts that can run with those folk, so that should work nicely.
VardaValar1: Or in a pinch, we'll overpower it. ;-)

VardaValar1: Any other news, comments, suggestions?
VardaValar1: If you find a bad link on the website, please email Varda.
VardaValar1: Eonwe is being distracted by real life. Who all is here for the Tolkien chat?
VardaValar1: type Aye
VardaValar1: Aye
ArPharazonV: Aye
VardaValar1: *dances with Phar*
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VardaValar1: Tolkien:
VardaValar1: This is the month of January and I got curious what was going on this month back in Middle-earth in the Great Years.
VardaValar1: the time of the Lord of the Rings.
VardaValar1: It's in the timeline at the end of the Return of the KIng.
VardaValar1: Appendix B
ArPharazonV: Well, let's see before I go collect my book...
VardaValar1: If we think we've had a tough month, we can take a look at theirs.
VardaValar1: Ok, waiting. : )
ArPharazonV: Late March was the Black Gate, so all the Gondor and Mordor stuff would've been in March, possibly most of Rohan too...
ArPharazonV: Lothlorien took one month of their time, if I recall...
ArPharazonV: So January would've been... what... west of the Misty Mountains? Moria?
ArPharazonV: Not sure what was happening in the rest of the world though.
ArPharazonV: Book-fetching time, brb.
VardaValar1: ok : )
VardaValar1: 3018 December: The Fellowship leaves Rivendell at dusk.
ArPharazonV: Back, and checking.
VardaValar1: That was on Christmas day, for a memory help. The 25th.
VardaValar1: By January 8, they've traveled all the way to Hollin.
VardaValar1: But they head to Caradhras instead of making for Moria at that time.
ArPharazonV: January 8: Hollin; 11-12: Caradhras; 13: Moria, 15: Fall of Gandalf and departure from Moria; fight between Gandalf and Balrog lasting until the 25th. Guess I was close to the mark.
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: The 25th again. Things seem to come to a head near the end of a month.
ArPharazonV: Still a few days travel up the mountain, into snowy areas. Quite high, then.
ArPharazonV: And yet they make it down again and into Moria in a day.
ArPharazonV: Always faster to descend, isn't it?
ArPharazonV: Suddenly gravity's on your side :-)
VardaValar1: Maybe they took an inner tube down, or road their shields. ;-)
ArPharazonV: I can see Boromir sledding down on his shield.
VardaValar1: Caradhras also fought them going up but wanted them to leave.
VardaValar1: hehe
ArPharazonV: And yes, ends of the month are interesting.
Arien-(Valar) has entered the room. [Note: Arien-(Valar) substitutes for the email we actually saw.]
VardaValar1: Gandalf's body is left on the peak on the 25th.
ArPharazonV: Looking at all the 25ths and 26ths...
VardaValar1: Hello. May we be of help?
VardaValar1: Arien?
Arien-(Valar): yes me :-D
VardaValar1: Congrats for finding a way in! : )
ArPharazonV: Hmm. Are we sure it's not a spy pretending to be Arien? ;-)
Arien-(Valar): cheers :-D i followed Eonwes tip to find an old version of aim
ArPharazonV: Ah, that'll do for proof.
Arien-(Valar): and created a new account with the screenname as it should be
ArPharazonV: You're showing as your hotmail-address though.
VardaValar1: Aye, the email is what I see too.
ArPharazonV: But I'm sure Varda can edit that out if necessary.
VardaValar1: Aye.
Arien-(Valar): yeah because i think registered that as screenname
Arien-(Valar): i have to change that i think
VardaValar1: Good to be able to come in and have a way to tackle the lesser problem.
Arien-(Valar): hang on i ll come in and out again
Arien-(Valar) has left the room.
Arien-(Valar) has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Still the same to me.
VardaValar1: Still an email, and not the one on the website.
VardaValar1: Should we change the one on the website?
Arien-(Valar): i dont mind you can keep that as the valar guild namne
Arien-(Valar): i just registered with that
VardaValar1: Alrighty.
Eonwe Valar: Arien, is this your normal AIM account you're on?
Arien-(Valar): i had another one but i cant remember the password there
ArPharazonV: Is there no way to reset it through your email?
Arien-(Valar) has left the room.
AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Now we have AriehnV showing. : )
VardaValar1: No email.
AriehnV: pfft
ArPharazonV: Yay!
AriehnV: found the normal account
AriehnV: was just a slightly different spelling
VardaValar1: Grats!
ArPharazonV: Spelling.. that'll get ya every time.
AriehnV: wrote it down now .. with all the other passwords for various accounts :-P
VardaValar1: Good plan, especially on paper and not the computer.
Eonwe Valar: :}
ArPharazonV: Just don't leave it lying around everywhere!
VardaValar1: Aye! : )
ArPharazonV: Anyway.
VardaValar1: We were noticing odd things about the timeline. Go ahead, Phar.
ArPharazonV: Looking at the 25th and 26th, there seem to be some pretty important events taking place, just going through the appendix :-)
ArPharazonV: 26th of September states that they meet Bombadil, so that must be the day of Old Man Willow.
ArPharazonV: 25th of October is the Council of Elrond.
ArPharazonV: 25th of December is when they depart from Rivendell. I didn't realise they stayed there for 2 months, I thought it was just one.
VardaValar1: A long time.
VardaValar1: Scouts (like our rp group) had to go check all possible routes, hoping to find a safe one.
ArPharazonV: 25th of January is spent in Lorien, not much importance on the date there, but it is the day that Gandalf and the Balrog both die.
VardaValar1: Come to think of it, we could've rp'd that we tried to find another route or two.
ArPharazonV: 26th of February is the breaking of the Fellowship and the death of Boromir.
ArPharazonV: And I'm sure we all know what happens on the 25th of March :-)
ArPharazonV: Of course, pretty big events happen all the time in these months, but there does seem to be a significance to these dates.
VardaValar1: Ring-melt
ArPharazonV: Yep!
ArPharazonV: I wonder if it meant anything specific to Tolkien.
VardaValar1: Dec 25 being Christmas would be a major holiday for him. Then he may have set it so the months were like chapters.
VardaValar1: Put the big things at the end of the month/chapter.
VardaValar1: That would give a definite pacing.
Eonwe Valar: So what happened November 25th?
VardaValar1: Nov 3rd was the passing of Saruman.
ArPharazonV: November is not mentioned at all in Appendix B.
VardaValar1: That would be during the time Frodo became mayor though.
ArPharazonV: Of that year, I meant.
VardaValar1: He resigns for health reasons mid-year the next year in 3020.
VardaValar1: So that whole time he was mayor. The Shire and the world was being rebuilt.
VardaValar1: It's like JRRT said, the times that are good tend not to have much said about them.
ArPharazonV: Continuing into the aftermath of the Ring-melt, though, the only events mentioned on the 25th is the finding of the White Tree sapling in June, and the birth of Elanor on the 25th of March, 2 years later.
ArPharazonV: *are
ArPharazonV: And no news is good news, eh?
VardaValar1: Seems like.
VardaValar1: Finding a replacement for the White Tree was like a rebirth.
VardaValar1: And Elanor's birth would be the first child born to the Fellowship?
VardaValar1: And she took up writing the Red Book.
ArPharazonV: Looks like it, yes.
VardaValar1: So those were big events, not of war.
ArPharazonV: Does it mention when Aragorn's son is born?
VardaValar1: um
VardaValar1: Eldarion is the name of the son, the only one, and the first child.
VardaValar1: Aragorn and Arwen had a lot of daughters.
ArPharazonV: Yes, but I do not see him, or his sisters, mentioned in the timeline.
ArPharazonV: Looking at Appendix A, maybe he's included in the line of Rulers somewhere?
ArPharazonV: Doesn't look like it, Aragorn's the last mentioned.
Eonwe Valar: We know they were born by Fourth Age 120.
ArPharazonV: Theoretically he could've been born before Elanor, though I assume they had plenty of reasons to postpone a family for a few years.
VardaValar1: If he took the kingship at the age of 90 like the Chieftains did, then around IV 30. Got that from Encyc of Arda:
VardaValar1: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/e/eldarion.html
VardaValar1: Sounds like something to look into to see how correct that is.
VardaValar1: Like a reference for 90 being the age of Chieftain.
VardaValar1: Eldar ion would be Eldar son of, so son of the Elves.
ArPharazonV: That's possible, of course, if the pattern holds. But Aragorn didn't exactly abdicate at IV 120, as much as simply dying. Though he didn't cling on to life like some and so it's possible that he determined that year for such a reason.
VardaValar1: Aye, he didn't want to hang on until he was a "dotard".
VardaValar1: and like you quoted, Eldarion was quite ready to ascend the throne.
VardaValar1: Another spot with a wide range of possibilities for fan fic to add to the mythos.
VardaValar1: Any such fan fic needs to note that Eldarion was *ready* for kingship.
ArPharazonV: He would've been about as old as his father was when he became king, so that's quite likely.
VardaValar1: "full ripe for kingship"
ArPharazonV: Must've seen a lot of the world already.
VardaValar1: There is mention of Eomer and Aragorn riding to battle together a lot, with Faramir as steward.
VardaValar1: We can expect Gimli and Legolas to contribute to the battles as well with their kingdom and colony.
VardaValar1: Eldarion would have grown up in the middle of that.
VardaValar1: Lots of sisters for alliances too.
ArPharazonV: ...Daughters as a political tool. Really makes you think...
VardaValar1: Elladan and Elrohir were still at Rivendell. Celeborn may even have been around. Arwen would have wanted to visit with them.
VardaValar1: Royal children for alliances have been a common thing all through history.
ArPharazonV: How many of those marriages might've been arranged?
ArPharazonV: Did Eomer's wife really want to marry him?
VardaValar1: Denethor's wife was none too happy with life away from the seashore.
Eonwe Valar: Denethor seemed to have actually loved her though.
VardaValar1: Elrond would have liked to *not* have had Arwen marry Aragorn. : )
VardaValar1: Aye, Denethor did.
VardaValar1: So there was likely feeling involved as well as just alliance material, especially with lots of daughters to do the picking.
VardaValar1: "You don't want so and so? I'll take him!"
Eonwe Valar: I suspect with Aragorn's daughters, making political alliances wouldn't have been the only factor in any marriage.
Eonwe Valar: hehe
VardaValar1: Agreed.
ArPharazonV: "...so, which one of you dislikes him the least?"
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Doesn't he have a cousin or other relative instead? : )
ArPharazonV: Heh.
VardaValar1: It's after 6 and we've gotten Aragorn's daughters married off. : )
VardaValar1: Shall we call it a night?
ArPharazonV: Unless you have more to add?
VardaValar1: er, after 7pm EST
ArPharazonV: Some other tangents?
VardaValar1: Well, had some funny thoughts about when the twins visit and other daughters of other kings see them.
VardaValar1: "Are they available?"
VardaValar1: We don't know that they ever married or not.
ArPharazonV: "Aren't those our uncles? Eeeeww!"
VardaValar1: Aragorn's daughters might not see them as at all marriageable, but daughters from other kingdoms, princedoms, etc who didn't have a bunch of Aragorn's sons to pick from, might have been interested.
ArPharazonV: True.
VardaValar1: We don't know who Eldarion married, but he would've had many interested.
Eonwe Valar: King of the most powerful nation for miles? Sure, plenty interested, not all for the right reasons, hehe.
ArPharazonV: Half elf. Approximately.
ArPharazonV: Must've been impressive.
VardaValar1: He would've most likely been a trained warrior, well-muscled, plus elf heritage. And Arwen was the most beautiful since Luthien so he could've had great looks.
Eonwe Valar: That many sisters, he better have been a trained warrior, hehe. He'd likely end up in enough fights.
VardaValar1: lol
VardaValar1: They'd keep him humble!
Eonwe Valar: Well, that too, but he's a big brother to alot of little sisters.
VardaValar1: True that.
ArPharazonV: "Aw, another sister? I'm never gonna have a little brother."
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: *while no one's looking, Varda swings that cool gavel*
VardaValar1: *tinnnnnng*
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: Sounds like a tuning fork.
VardaValar1: After-meeting!
VardaValar1: Feel free to keep gossip going if you like. ;-)
VardaValar1: *heads for the kitchen on Taniquetil*
VardaValar1: *lights huge firepits for cooking*
VardaValar1: *whoooosh!*
VardaValar1: Advantabe of being the Valie of Light. ;-)
ArPharazonV: I can see the light all the way down here.
VardaValar1: ^^
VardaValar1: Pots and pans and griddles at the ready! Charrrrrge!
AriehnV: *chuckles*
AriehnV: bedtime anyways .. have fun fighting roast and chips and veggis - keep safe :-)
AriehnV: namarie for now
ArPharazonV: namarie!
AriehnV has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Saving and sending transcript
ArPharazon-V: saved
ArPharazon-V: sent!
ArPharazon-V: Namarie all
ArPharazon-V (ArPharazonV) has left the room.
Glorfindel VG has left the room.
EonweValar: That's it for me for the night. Take care all, good night, sleep well, and have fun.
VardaValar1: Night
VardaValar1: Doing the transcript, still plan to hit WoW
VardaValar1: Namarie Eonwe :-)
EonweValar: Have fun in WoW. :} Eowyn and Elwing were in there when I left :}
VardaValar1: o neat :-)
VardaValar1: Thanks
EonweValar: MP :}
EonweValar: Namarië :}
VardaValar1: Namarie!
EonweValar (Eonwe Valar) has left the room.

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