Valar Guild

October 3, 2021 Sunday Meeting

5:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Savings Time
Discord: Valar Guild/meeting_place

Back to News
Transcript work by Varda.
[times are Central Time from Varda's Discord. Add one hour for Eastern.]


Attending (and typed): (5)
    Discord: Arien, Ar-Pharazon, Eonwe, Fangorn, Varda (presiding)
Before-meeting
Meeting begins
Membership news:
    24th Anniversary of the Valar Guild is tomorrow.
    The anniversary chat marathon begins now and continues through next meeting!
Web:
    Anniversary page is now online and ready for input.
        Thank you, Phar, for the image! His new art is also on his art page/Cave.
Gaming:
    Lord of the Rings Online, World of Warcraft, Overwatch, Heroes of the Storm, more WoW
Tolkien:
    Topic from Eonwe: contests and sports in Tolkien's world.
    Topic from Ar-Pharazon: Numenorean culture.
    Topic from Varda (aside that grew): the great ocean Vai.
    Topic (just intended as a question) from Varda: telepathy.
After-meeting: This also becomes the continuing Chat Marathon for the rest of the week! Keep our meeting_place open all week!
    Topic from Eonwe: a "natalma" in Tolkien is the signaling heliograph of JRRT's real life experience.
    (non)Flashgaming Reviews (plus) by Ar-Pharazon. Includes Blizzard games.
    Topic from Eonwe: mushrooms and which groups liked and didn't like.
    Topic from Eonwe: why Oropher led his Sindar into silvan life.
    Fireworks ride times for Landroval on LotRO: noon and 7 P.M. Eastern. Also plan to hand out beverages to passersby.
    Topic from Eonwe: Numenorean bows (hollow metal).
Oct. 4 (the marathon continues!):
    Forum has a section for wishing Happy Anniversary.
    Topic from Eonwe: need a Quenya word for "battle" as between two people.
    Happy Anniversary cheers have started in Discord, led off by Eonwe.
   
Topic from Varda, continuing above Numenorean bows topic from yesterday: Bard's black arrow.

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Before-meeting
Eonwë Valar — 09/29/2021
You know, apparently we don't have any Elvish words for tournament, contest, trial, duel, combat, and the like.
[11:29 PM]
Weapon there might be a word, but the only source I can find for that online doesn't cite a book.

October 2, 2021

Eonwë Valar — 10/02/2021
Renown 74, and now I have Maelie in my list of mounts.

October 3, 2021

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 9:32 AM
GSMU data now up on the Games Site.,

Varda — Yesterday at 3:26 PM
Thank you, Eonwe! That's a big job.

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:00 PM
Aiya Varda

Varda — Yesterday at 4:01 PM
@Bounder Aiya! Valar Guild meeting time! Begin the Anniversary chat marathon starting today and going to next meeting!
[4:01 PM]
Aiya Sunshine
[4:01 PM]

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Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
[4:01 PM]
Membership:
[4:01 PM]
Our 24th Anniversary of the Valar Guild is tomorrow!
[4:02 PM]
We are kicking it off with the chat marathon starting today and going to our next meeting.
[4:02 PM]
Eonwe has updated the Games Site according to what we have all sent in for the Mass Update!

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 4:02 PM
Heya.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:02 PM
Please check to make sure your info is correct. It may even need updated!
[4:03 PM]
Eonwe! Aiya : )
[4:03 PM]

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Web:
[4:03 PM]
I should have moved to Web for the Games Site. : )
[4:03 PM]
Eonwe, did you want to say anything for Web?

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 4:04 PM
Nothing right now other than the State of Valar Gaming will be ready by next week's Anniversary meeting.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:05 PM
I will add that the actual Anniversary date is tomorrow, for those wanting to do Rides or other fun stuff on the actual day.
[4:06 PM]
I have a problem on knowing exactly when I can be present tomorrow, needing to slip into the dentist's office whenever he can take me, heh. [Note: free for the two regular times.]

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:06 PM
i am on holidays for two weeks from today

Varda — Yesterday at 4:06 PM
But Landroval should have two fireworks rides.

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:06 PM
but we are away for slx days from Tuesdday

Varda — Yesterday at 4:06 PM
Fantastic, Arien!
[4:07 PM]
But you may be around for the Monday Anniversary?

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:07 PM
aye

Varda — Yesterday at 4:07 PM
Huzzah!
[4:07 PM]
We need to coordinate best times for the two rides. Coming at us fast!
[4:07 PM]
Solo rides are also welcome. Don't forget screenshots!
[4:08 PM]
The Anniversary page has started, ready to take on whatever we throw at it this month. : )
[4:08 PM]
http://valarguild.org/varda/guild/NewsArchives/extras/2021/anniv24th.htm
    24th Anniversary of the Valar Guild
    Year 2021, 24th Anniversary celebration of the Valar
    Guild Tolkien fan club and gamers' group.
[4:09 PM]
http://valarguild.org/gaming
    The Valar Guild Games Site
    Valar Guild Games Site

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:10 PM
oki doks . i ve gotr a vague idea for a story which i hope to submit by the end of my holiday

Varda — Yesterday at 4:10 PM
Cool!
[4:10 PM]
On the theme, there is a bit of a problem for which we may have  a workaround.
[4:11 PM]
The books and even movies have very little on tournaments or the part we really wanted, which was the training games for the tournaments.
However!
(Fangorn waves Hi!)
[4:12 PM]
We can keep the idea (sort of) with
Food Wars!
[4:13 PM]
Whatever you need to hunt for your food from neekerbreekers to dragons for liver,
whatever you need to farm, including ingredients from a quagmire,
and maybe actual food! and of course beverages!
[4:14 PM]
Taverns/pubs could be great for food wars.
And the Shire, or hobbits anywhere!
and just the fight to get food to the table at the Prancing Pony by our unsung heroes.
[4:15 PM]
If, however, like Eonwe, you have found subjects in the books that would fit the training games for tournaments, that's still in the pot!
[4:16 PM]
He found some things in Nature of Middle-earth.
[4:17 PM]
Eonwe, mention now or in Tolkien? You found a lot of interesting stuff.

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 4:17 PM
Whichever is fine with me. Still digging for one reference to make sure I can give it right.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:17 PM
Ok, we can give you time by holding back until Tolkien. : )
[4:18 PM]
or not, since we will be calling for you in Gaming shortly!
[4:18 PM]

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Gaming!
[4:18 PM]
How's that for fast. : )
Arien, did you  have any mentions for gaming since you're all over?
[4:20 PM]
Guess not. : )
I have a report for Lord of the Rings Online:
Landroval server:
Bregalad
Eonwe
Fangorn
Irmo
Luthien
Nar
Varda

Anor server:
Eonwe
Fangorn
Varda

Shadowfax server:
Varda

Treebeard server:
Arien
Varda
[4:21 PM]
Thank you to Fangorn for helping with bringing one of Luthien's characters into the Landroval kin while I was slogging away on Shadowfax server.
[4:22 PM]
In Shadowfax server, Fainan is currently working towards collecting enough gold for a Bree kin house.  Currently up to 11 gold. The Treebeard server kin house will be the next project, currently at 5 gold.
[4:22 PM]
Question:
Games Site: Should we add the LotRO Shadowfax and Treebeard server kins? I'm thinking maybe not as they don't have at least ten separate players (not talking character numbers). Does anyone else have an opinion?
[4:23 PM]
Answer doesn't have to be given immediately. Feel free to think about it.
.
[4:24 PM]
Back to the theme due to a comment. Apparently Hastilude also refers to tourneys. I thought it was for the smaller training leading to tourneys.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hastilude
    Hastilude
    Hastilude is a generic term used in the Middle Ages to refer to many kinds of martial games. The word comes from the Latin hastiludium, literally "lance game". By the 14th century, the term usually excluded tournaments and was used to describe the other games collectively; this seems to have coincided with the increasing preference for rituali...

[4:25 PM]
due to this saying that by the 14th century, it no longer referenced tourneys.
But since this is way before the 14th century, we could include tourneys.
[4:26 PM]
This still lets us do Food Wars for the fun of it, for those that would like to.
[4:27 PM]
Why is the suggestion being made to tighten down our subject? Because Tolkien gives us too little information and our games don't support the subject well. If you have something for training for tournaments outside of Food Wars, please feel free to continue with it and more power to you!
.
[4:27 PM]
Anyway, both are fair game for you all.
[4:28 PM]
Gaming from Eonwe!
[4:28 PM]
hands over the gavel

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 4:29 PM
Throws the gavel waaaay up into the air, and whatever Eru wants, he keeps!
[4:30 PM]
Sorry, reference to joke from "Short Circuit" there :}
[Note:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7wj3bB6OU4
yep ad at the start, sorry.]
[4:30 PM]

Lord of the Rings Online:
[4:30 PM]
The upcoming expansion, Fate of Gundabad, is now available for preorder. --- https://www.lotro.com/en/game/articles/fate-gundabad-faq-and-information
    The Lord of the Rings Online
    Fate of Gundabad FAQ and Information
[4:31 PM]
Trying to figure out the new legendary item system? See the blog Your New Legendary Items Explained!. --- https://www.lotro.com/en/game/articles/your-new-legendary-items-explained
    The Lord of the Rings Online
    Your New Legendary Items Explained!
[4:31 PM]

World of Warcraft:
[4:31 PM]
A new blog is out: The Evolution of Creative Content in World of Warcraft. --- https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23730894/the-evolution-of-creative-content-in-world-of-warcraft
    World of Warcraft
    The Evolution of Creative Content in World of Warcraft - WoW
    Over the last few weeks, artists and writers across the WoW team have updated a small number of old quests, art assets, names, and dialogue that we identified as outdated and inconsistent with our values as a team. These updates are a relatively small part of a comprehensive, company-wide effort to improve the WoW team and Blizzard as a whole, b...

[4:31 PM]
Also up: World of Warcraft News and Development Updates. --- https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23730895/world-of-warcraft-news-and-development-updates
    World of Warcraft
    World of Warcraft News and Development Updates - WoW
    Catch up on all the latest World of Warcraft news, hotfixes, and more in our update.

[4:32 PM]
WoW Classic Season of Mastery Coming Soon. --- https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23730850/wow-classic-season-of-mastery-coming-soon
    World of Warcraft
    WoW Classic Season of Mastery Coming Soon - WoW
    WoW Classic Season of Mastery brings an opportunity to start new characters on a fresh realm, and a wealth of changes and improvements. Read on to learn more.

[4:32 PM]
Check out this week's hotfixes. --- https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23691036/hotfixes-october-1-2021
    World of Warcraft
    Hotfixes: October 1, 2021 - WoW
    Here you will find a list of hotfixes that address various issues related to World of Warcraft: Shadowlands, Burning Crusade Classic, and WoW Classic.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:32 PM
Aiya! Reading up

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 4:32 PM
Overwatch:
[4:32 PM]
Check out the blog Destination: Malevento. --- https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/news/23725430/destination-malevento/
    Overwatch
    Destination: Malevento
    Learn more about the latest Overwatch Deathmatch map from one of its designers.

[4:32 PM]
Heroes of the Storm:

Varda — Yesterday at 4:33 PM
(Aiya Phar!)

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 4:33 PM
A new balance patch came out this week. ---https://news.blizzard.com/en-us/heroes-of-the-storm/23725472/heroes-of-the-storm-balance-patch-notes-september-27-2021
    Heroes of the Storm Balance Patch Notes - September 27, 2021
    Heroes of the Storm has just been updated with Hero balance changes! Read on for details.

[4:33 PM]
Also in WoW:
The week's bonus event: Battlegrounds.
The PvP Brawl: Classic Ashran is going until Tuesday, October 5th.
[4:34 PM]
That covers my gaming news.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:35 PM
Thank you, Eonwe. : )

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 4:35 PM
bows

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:35 PM
(Varda, made some art for the anniversary, not sure how we handled linking/sending etc last year)

Varda — Yesterday at 4:36 PM
Any other news on gaming, Valarites you've seen this past week, need for an invite, what we need stashed in LotRO kin chests in various servers, etc?
[4:36 PM]
Woot, Phar!
[4:36 PM]
Email is fine, attachment. jpg is great

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:36 PM
I've also got it on imgur if that works.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:37 PM
Then a link to that would help. I can try to work with that.
[4:40 PM]
Got it!
[4:40 PM]
Nice : )

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:41 PM
Since I mentioned it in the meeting last week, I figured yesterday I'd put some time aside to give it a go

Varda — Yesterday at 4:44 PM
Thanks!
[4:45 PM]
Any other cool stuff or needs?
Does anyone need fireworks stashed in the kin house for Landroval to grab?
I accumulate them across the year. : )
[4:46 PM]
Let me know any time. [Note: Fainan will carry enough to pass around on the go.]
[4:47 PM]
I may have some difficulties knowing exactly when I can come in, but will try to see the dentist as early as possible.
Any time suggestions (in Eastern) for the rides for Landroval, or any other game to coordinate? Eve for instance?
[4:48 PM]
I had the thought that it might be fun to give out food and/or beverages to passers by, if we happen to have some.
Tough to have the right levels, so maybe beverages are the best way to go.
On to
[4:48 PM]

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Tolkien!
[4:49 PM]
Eonwe has been studying up. Feel free to tell us what you found!

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 4:51 PM
Sure.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:51 PM
(Then we can speculate!)

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 4:52 PM
Some mentions of "contests" and sports we know of (besides Golf):
[4:52 PM]
First, I did skim through BoLT this past week looking for other things, but I do recall mention of Galadriel racing in Aman.
[4:53 PM]
Second, this part in NoME the section titled "Lives of the Numenoreans":
[4:55 PM]
"Though the Numenoreans used horses for journeys and for the delight of riding they had little interest in racing them as a test of speed. In country sports or displays of agility, both of horse and rider, were to be seen; but more esteemed were exhibitions of understanding between master and beast. The Numenoreans trained their horses to hear and understand calls (by voice or whistling) from great distances; and also, where there was great love between men or women and their favorite steeds, they could (or so it is said in ancient tales) summon them at need by their thought alone."
[4:57 PM]
Earlier in that section is mentioned the idea of contests of speed in rowing or sailing small boats, which I believe Phar has mentioned last week or the week before, so I won't rehash that one here.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:58 PM
I did mention boat jousting, but that was more a fancy rather than taken from the book. Not sure about racing... I might have seen it and said it but don't remember

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 4:58 PM
Numenorean women liked to dance, and they dragged the men along in it too, lol.
[4:59 PM]
Or to be fair, the quote is
"[Women's] great delight was in dancing (in which many men also took part) at feasts or in leisure time. Many women achieved great fame as dancers, and people would go on long journeys to see displays of their art."
[5:01 PM]
Doesn't seem they were particularly fond of the sea, so not many were likely to be in all that boat racing.
[5:02 PM]
Third, another quote from NoME, in "Of the Land and Beasts of Numenor":
[5:03 PM]
"Shooting with bows was one of the great sports and pastimes of men; and one in which young women also took part."
So we have precedence for archery games too.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:04 PM
Archery's nice

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 5:04 PM
But that said, I'm sure for Calion's sake, there were also tests of accuracy with throwing daggers among Elves :}

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:04 PM
haha
[5:04 PM]
Calion's second best in the world! But he tries harder.
[5:05 PM]
(discworld reference there)

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 5:05 PM
Not familiar with the series.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:06 PM
Alright, easter egg for the transcript readers

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 5:07 PM
So those are my three quotes that could be of use to us.
[5:07 PM]
well, quotes and commentary

Varda — Yesterday at 5:08 PM
Thank you, Eonwe. : )

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:09 PM
Do we know anything about Numenorean culture, per se, and what real world culture it might represent? I've seen a picture of Pharazon as a pharaoh, but not sure if that's reasonable... if it is, the female dancing might be pictured as such, for example.

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 5:09 PM
I believe Tolkien compared them in some ways to Egyptian.
[5:10 PM]
I don't have the quote that would be useful on that though.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:10 PM
The name and title sound similar to each other, very suspicious. : )

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 5:10 PM
Pharoahzon :}

Varda — Yesterday at 5:10 PM
The obsession with death would be one.
[5:10 PM]
haha

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:10 PM
There is the Numenorean obsession with the afterlife, tombs, monuments etc... yes, Varda

Varda — Yesterday at 5:10 PM
my eyes

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 5:11 PM
You saw it, you can't unsee it :}

Varda — Yesterday at 5:11 PM
The Pharoah Pharazon.
[5:11 PM]
Ar is shorter!

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:11 PM
Of course I was the only Numenorean king spending eternity in his tomb alive....

Varda — Yesterday at 5:11 PM
One hopes?

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 5:11 PM
"Arrrrr" for the Ship-King? ;}

Varda — Yesterday at 5:12 PM
Arrr Pharazon.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:12 PM
Pharazoah.
[5:12 PM]
Sounds like a microbe or algae or something.

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 5:12 PM
Well, he did try to grow on Aman.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:13 PM
Like a barnacle.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:13 PM
. /facepalm

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 5:13 PM
He was swiftly put in a petri dish.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:13 PM
Once upon a time there was a giant boat on the ocean Vai.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:14 PM
Would that be http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/art/gallery/ArPharazon/Alcarondas.jpg ?

Varda — Yesterday at 5:14 PM
heh
[5:15 PM]
Scroll down for the new art:
[5:15 PM]
http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/art/gallery/ArPharazon/caveArPharazon.htm
    Ar-Pharazon-(V)'s Cave
    Tolkien-inspired artwork by Ar-Pharazon-(V).

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:16 PM
Perhaps I should've given them shields...
[5:16 PM]
eh, less fun

Varda — Yesterday at 5:17 PM
Lo, there is but one ocean, and that is Vai, for those that Ossë esteemeth as oceans are but seas, waters that lie in the hollows of the rock... In this vast water floweth the wide earth upheld by the world of Ilúvatar...
BoLT 1, "The Coming of the Valar"
[5:17 PM]
Big boat.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:18 PM
floweth or floateth?

Varda — Yesterday at 5:18 PM
I think it floats, personally. ; )

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:18 PM
Right

Varda — Yesterday at 5:19 PM
I did a Google on that one, trying to find it fast. Surprised not more about it:
[5:19 PM]
https://www.thetolkienforum.com/threads/of-vai-and-i-vene-kemen.14356/
    🧙 The Tolkien Forum 🧝
    Of Vai and I Vene Kemen
    Anyone who has read The Book of Lost Tales I is familiar with the drawing I Vene Kemen . It depicts the world as a ship that is floating on one massive ocean called Vai.
    It is seen from the drawing that the world floats in and upon Vai. - The Book of Lost Tales I, The Coming of the Valar...

[5:19 PM]
I try to dig stuff out of the books, most times. Got lazy whilst working on the website.
[5:19 PM]
Anyway, we have reached the hour (and a bit over).
[5:20 PM]
The main meeting will be over and we will move to the 24th Anniversary Chat Marathon!
[5:20 PM]
Feel free to continue chatting about Tolkien for the rest of the week, and gaming, and howdys. : )
[5:21 PM]
the gavel whirls in place on the hammerpad, tap-dancing

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:21 PM
I hope I'll remember to open Discord every time I start the pc

Varda — Yesterday at 5:21 PM
looks more like pogo-sticking, but it's trying!
thoompity thoompity thoompity

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After-meeting!
[5:21 PM]
Same here, Phar.
[5:22 PM]
Bunch of folks have it open automatically and ignore it. Our having to open it might be a plus!

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:22 PM
Heh, yes.

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 5:23 PM
Fun tidbit:
"naltalma, the name of an Eldarin device for signalling from afar (like a heliograph, though it is said to have been also usable in a clear moon). It's form and the manner of manipulating it are not recorded, but it must have contained a bright surface. It was however evidently small, able to be slipped into a slender pouch or pocket, and the flash that it gave would not have been visible by human eyes, at any rate not at a distance."
[5:24 PM]
Sindar used it too, -- Sindarin name was glathralvas =" flashing glass/crystal"

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:24 PM
Hmm, looking at Pharazon art, I'm wondering who'd play him in the tv series...

Varda — Yesterday at 5:24 PM
Some might call it a mirror?

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 5:24 PM
Well, mirror is has its own word.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:24 PM
Neato, and thanks, Eonwe.
[5:25 PM]
ah hah! So not.

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 5:25 PM
This is actually in reference to a standard military issue item for the British Army during Tolkien's time.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:25 PM
Intriguing.

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 5:25 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliograph
    Heliograph
    A heliograph (from Greek ἥλιος (helios) 'sun', and γράφειν (graphein) 'write') is a semaphore system that signals by flashes of sunlight (generally using Morse code) reflected by a mirror. The flashes are produced by momentarily pivoting the mirror, or by interrupting the beam with a shutter. The heliograph was a simple but effective instrumen...

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:26 PM
So it's a fancy mirror.
[5:26 PM]
Rather than a mirror.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:26 PM
(Seem to have the Anniversary page in two places on my computer. /headdesk)

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 5:27 PM
The item in Middle-Earth seems to be a pretty old one, evidently going back before the return of the Noldorin Exiles, so either developed separately from them, or perhaps dating back to the Great March or before.
[5:28 PM]
So just an idea of something Fainan and Calion might be carrying around, and Auros too.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:28 PM
"Oh, look at this thing in my pocket I had all along!"

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 5:29 PM
"What have I got in my pockets? Everything I could possibly need, even if I haven't mentioned it yet" :}
[5:30 PM]
I don't think we've had too many opportunities to need such a devise, except for some instances mentioned of splitting up to examine more ground, and then we didn't go into detail of how we let eachother know what we saw at those times.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:31 PM
"If you think my pockets and pouches are bad, wait until you see the inventory in my purse."

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 5:31 PM
Lol.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:31 PM
The orcs could see such a flashing device too.
[5:31 PM]
Don't suppose we silvan types have handy telepathy? Seems to be something the old Wise types did, but not the younger.
[5:32 PM]
Would have been handy if Legolas and Aragorn had telepathy. : )
[5:32 PM]
Easy report-backs for scouts then!

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:33 PM
I wonder if telepathy could be intercepted.

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 5:33 PM
Well, "telepathy".
[5:33 PM]
Direct communication between two willing Elven minds seems to be a thing, yes.
[5:34 PM]
Though I don't have the exact quote.
[5:34 PM]
And I'm iffy about the exact distance that would be involved. I suspect/feel like it's more of a close range thing, except in some rare instances between people with a close bond.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:35 PM
I know Galadriel did some telepathy stuff in the movie but I don't remember if that was canon.

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 5:35 PM
"Close range" being you're right there next to the person.
[5:36 PM]
One could say she did communicate directly to the minds of each of the Fellowship.
[5:36 PM]
That seems evident in the books.
[5:36 PM]
Boromir and others commented on it.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:41 PM
http://valarguild.org/varda/guild/NewsArchives/extras/2021/anniv24th.htm
    24th Anniversary of the Valar Guild
    Year 2021, 24th Anniversary celebration of the Valar
    Guild Tolkien fan club and gamers' group.

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 5:41 PM
There are a couple of essays in NoME that would be of interest to the subject at hand.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:41 PM
Yay boat jousting!

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 5:41 PM
But don't necessarily tell us anything brand new.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:41 PM
Gandalf did the telepathy thing too but only with Galadriel and such high types.

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 5:41 PM
Hehe
[5:42 PM]
Gandalf was a Maia :}

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:42 PM
While I did google image for rowing as a source for my art, I didn't realize "water jousting" was an actual thing until after it was done.
[5:42 PM]
And yes, Gandalf had an advantage

Varda — Yesterday at 5:43 PM
So those with a little Maia in them?

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:43 PM
Aragorn?

Varda — Yesterday at 5:43 PM
That's what I was wondering.
[5:43 PM]
But he doesn't seem to have used it.

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 5:43 PM
OK, so here is a (if not the) pertinent part re: "telepathy", at least from the observations of one Pengolodh presumably the same Pengolodh of Gondolin mentioned in HoME, who was of Sindarin and Noldorin ancestry.
[5:46 PM]
1.) (Cutting out asides to shorten it:) "All minds are equal in status, though they differ in capacity and strenth A mind by its nature perceives another mind directly. But it cannot perceive more than the existence of another mind except by the will of both parties. The degree of will however, need not be the same in both parties.
     If we call one mind G (as in guest) and the other H (as in host), then G must have full intention to inspect H or to inform it. But knowledge may be gained or imparted by G, even when H is not seeking or intending to impart or to learn: the act of G will be effective, if H is simply 'open'. This distinction, he says, if of the greatest importance."
Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:49 PM
"Keeping an open mind" takes on a new meaning.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:50 PM
Supper. Will return.

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 5:51 PM
2.)"'Openness' is the natural or simple state of a mind that is not otherwise engaged. In 'Arda Unmarred' (that is, the ideal condition free from evil) openness would be the normal state. Nonetheless any mind may be closed. This requires an act of conscious will: Unwill. It may be made against G, against G and some others, or be a total retreat into privacy.
Though in 'Arda Unmarred' openness is the normal state, every mind has, from its first making as an individual, the right to close; and it has the absolute power to make this effective by will. Nothing can penetrate the barrier of Unwill."
[5:53 PM]
3.) "All these things, says Pengolodh, are true of all minds, from the Ainur in the presence of Eru, or the great Valar such as Manwë and Melkor, to the Maiar in Ea, and down to the least of the Mirroanwi (Eonwë's note: Incarnates like Men and Elves). But different states bring in limitations, which are not fully controlled by the will."
[5:54 PM]
This is the from section "Osanwe-kenta" for those following along at home :}
[5:55 PM]
Ok, here we go, related to what I was hinting at but couldn't give a quote for.
[5:58 PM]
(Abbreviating here) First, limits to communicating mind-to-mind ("telepathy") inherent to the condition of being incarnate. (edited)
[5:59 PM]
Transmission of thought requires strengthening to be effective, accomplished by affinity, by urgency, by authority.
[6:00 PM]
Affinity: kinship, love and friendship, sympathy.
Urgency: self-explanatory
Authority: also self-explanatory
[6:01 PM]
But the mind must still be open and at least passive. If the mind closes, no amount of urgency or affinity is going to change that.
[6:02 PM]
Language also gets in the way, people more used to talking rather than thinking at eachother (heh).
[6:03 PM]
Ok, indicates distance isn't a factor.
"For distance in itself offers no impediment whatever..."
[6:05 PM]
It then goes on to other things at least as interesting but not pertinent.
[6:12 PM]
I would say then that "telepathy" while possible, at least from my reading, is not something you can just do like your cell phone scans for wireless networks (speaking as a high level example, not getting into the nitty-gritty of how that's done). You'd have to be aware of the person already.
[6:16 PM]
Feel free to comment :}

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:16 PM
So while distance is not important, you need a good idea of who you're contacting and where they are?
[6:16 PM]
Makes longrange scouting reports a bit trickier perhaps.

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 6:17 PM
You wouldn't be sending out a general distress signal to be heard by anyone and everyone, no.
[6:18 PM]
Frodo's dream of Gandalf imprisoned in Orthanc is not so unlikely in this case.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:18 PM
Right!

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 6:19 PM
Frodo hearing Gandalf while Frodo's wearing the Ring on Amon Hen.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:19 PM
Gandalf might have been keeping tabs on him all the time during that adventure.

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 6:19 PM
There's an affinity through friendship there, so, even if the former was not necessarily Gandalf's choice per se, it's possible.
[6:23 PM]
On Longrange scouting - that's what the naltalma could be for: transmitting messages over longer distances.

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 6:25 PM
we have the beacons as signal
[6:26 PM]
sorry for being a bit quiet but was a  bit distracted  by a heroic but finishedd it now

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 6:27 PM
No worries.
[6:29 PM]
Imagine if there were larger heliographs set up in Rivendell (on the Misty Mountains), and in tall trees in Lothlorien and Mirkwood (or the mountain into which the caves of Thranduil's halls are presumably dug) that could signal back and forth and be seen at such distances.
[6:30 PM]
I can't imagine even Elvish eyesight being that good, but even then, using them as some sort of beacon system would be interesting, until the beacon line fell out of Elvish control.

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 6:32 PM
btw that passage about telepathy reminds me about a scene in a Darkovan novel ... one of the main characters gets in a dire situation where she needs urgent help and rescuing else he dies.. Half concious she gets into telepathic contact with a neighbouring castle and wonders how to call for help telepathically and she gets the answer "you think "help* " quite logically
[6:33 PM]
bit different but i had to think of that alas

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 6:33 PM
heh

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 6:35 PM
time for bed for me i fear tho

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 6:35 PM
Sleep well Arien :}

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 6:35 PM
Namarie and meet you next time

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 6:36 PM
Feel free to drop in during the chat marathon :}

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:43 PM
Namarie arien!

Varda — Yesterday at 6:44 PM
Aiya and namarie
[6:44 PM]
Thank you to Gimli and his wife for making a feast. : )

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 6:45 PM
What is a feast to a Dwarf? :}

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:45 PM
No feast like a dwarf feast.

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 6:45 PM
Besides Bilbo's entire pantry? ;}

Varda — Yesterday at 6:45 PM
That would be it!

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:45 PM
That's what Bilbo Baggins hates.

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 6:46 PM
You know, that comment could work if Gimli had cooked that feast over at Bilbo's house, hehe.

Varda — Yesterday at 6:46 PM
Steak, asparagus, cabbage, cheese, corn

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 6:46 PM
lol

Varda — Yesterday at 6:46 PM
Gloin maybe?

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 6:46 PM
Sounds pretty good indeed :}

Varda — Yesterday at 6:46 PM
o well, right. Real Bilbo : )

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 6:46 PM
:}

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Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:56 PM
Personal gaming report!
[6:56 PM]
(non)flashgaming: 3 old ones again, I'm just trying to find some among the 7 badges of the week that I haven't linked too recently
[7:01 PM]
https://www.kongregate.com/games/ejbarreto/puzlogic-plus is the first game! A puzzlegame akin to a sudoku where you have to place all the numbers on a grid so that no column or row contains duplicates. Later mechanics include total sums outside rows or columns, various colors and group totals.
    Kongregate
    Puzlogic Plus
    Unique puzzle game inspired by sudoku and cross sums (kakuro). This follow-up has 28 new puzzles, new rules and improved gameplay.

[7:05 PM]
https://www.kongregate.com/games/ConnorBohan/rogue-isles for the second game, a roguelike upgrade game where you get a bit improvement after each run, as well as unlock several npcs to upgrade more stuff and give you other features
    Kongregate
    Rogue Isles
    Hack, slash, and die your way through this melee bullet-hell roguelite!

[7:07 PM]
and https://www.kongregate.com/games/danielnora/cardinal-chains for the last, a math maze game where you start at a specific spot and need to fill the grid by only linking up numbers in a non-decreasing order.
    Kongregate
    Cardinal Chains
    Cardinal Chains is a minimalist puzzle game centering on the concept of non-decreasing sequences. This is the demo version containing the first 100 puzzles.
   T...

[7:10 PM]
Logic and experimenting needed
[7:10 PM]
Well, technically just logic if you plan it perfectly, but trial and error recommended
[7:13 PM]

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Blizzard gaming:
[7:14 PM]
Hearthstone:
Level 87 on the reward track now. 3 more weeks should see me to 100?
[7:15 PM]
Almost enough gold for a new hero skin.
[7:17 PM]
Brawl is Half & Half: Make a deck of 15 cards, get your opponent's deck added for the full 30. So basically use cards that are good for you and useless for the opponent  I had some good successes with a mage deck using only cards that benefit the damaging hero power.
[7:19 PM]
There's even a card that fires up your hero power at every enemy that also triggers for the opponent, was funny when a warlock ended up drawing a card for each of my minions, overflowing his hand and costing him a good bit of health
[7:19 PM]
WoW:
[7:20 PM]
In raiding, got heroic difficulty Ner'zhul down! Bit of juggling with dispels and aiming him at orbs, but otherwise not pushing us too hard. 5 down, 5 to go
[7:20 PM]
Got renown to 68, enhancing a few more conduits.
[7:22 PM]
Weekly is battlegrounds! Normally I'd get one count for the quest from the brawl, but since the brawl was Ashran, which never actually ends - whether you kill the enemy warlord or win an event, which both happened - it wouldn't count for anything but the brawl quest. So I had to some random battlegrounds on the side, but got all 4 done  Guardian druid's still a good flagcarrier!
[7:23 PM]
And in doing so, got my honor to 83. Don't have any specific honor-rank rewards I'm looking forward to, but every rank is one, I suppose
[7:25 PM]
Had another calling for 3 Maw rares this week, so I continued on the achievement to kill all the different ones, and ended up getting a toy from one of them, Orophea's Lyre. It and the rare are a reference to a Greek myth/tragedy, and in classic tragedy style, playing the lyre makes every player in 10 yards cry
[7:25 PM]
And finally, for renown, a new cloak appearance was bought.
[7:26 PM]
And I guess that's my report for the week!

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Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 7:27 PM
Congrats :}

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 7:27 PM
Thanks

Varda — Yesterday at 7:28 PM
Thank you and grats. : )

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 7:30 PM
In relation to the Food part of our theme, it's kind of funny Tolkien apparently went out of his way to write an essay to say Elves didn't like mushrooms, heh.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 7:30 PM
I'll make sure not to give them mushroom toppings in the Papa's Pizzeria game...

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 7:31 PM
Druedain enjoyed mushrooms, even eating some Men and Hobbits thought were dangerous.
[7:32 PM]
The folk of Haleth made some use of them, and ate them if served by the Druedain when they were guests, without fear, I guess knowing the Druedain weren't going to try and poison them.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 7:32 PM
Refusal would be impolite.

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 7:33 PM
Unless you knew you were going to be poisoned, in which case I'd call it smart :} But the folk of Haleth and the Druedain seemed to be on good terms.
[7:34 PM]
The other Atani didn't bother with mushrooms all that much because they were weak on mushroom-lore and most couldn't easily tell the good from the bad.
[7:35 PM]
But Tolkien wrote all that, and then wrote in the margin to delete all of it, hehe.
[7:36 PM]
Still, even if he tossed it all, amusing :}

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 7:36 PM
Hmhm, that's what's fun about NoME, just random thoughts written in essays

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 7:39 PM
Aye :}
[7:42 PM]
Even the stuff that isn't necessarily new can be fun to be reminded of, in light of our RP. Namely, Oropher and the Sindar that accompanied him and ruled in Mirkwood, did so to be free of the Noldorin influence and even of their Sindarin heritage, wishing to return to a state more akin to life before the Great March.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 7:44 PM
A bit like the Amish?

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 7:44 PM
I suppose so, heh.

Treebeard — Yesterday at 8:23 PM
Hello

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 8:23 PM
Aiya!

Varda — Yesterday at 8:24 PM
Aiya Fangorn : )

Treebeard — Yesterday at 8:25 PM
Hi ya  Varda

Varda — Yesterday at 8:27 PM
I may need to restart this computer.
[8:29 PM]
Back

Treebeard — Yesterday at 8:29 PM
Welcome back

Varda — Yesterday at 8:30 PM
Thanks

Varda — Yesterday at 8:40 PM
So. We don't have times for our fireworks runs yet?
[8:41 PM]
Noon and 7pm Eastern were previous times. Sound ok?
[8:42 PM]
Not sure I can make noon, but will give it a shot. Should be able to make 7.
[8:43 PM]
Guess it's time to stock up on fireworks.
[8:43 PM]
Maybe beverages.

Treebeard — Yesterday at 8:44 PM
I have fireworks from last year and have been collecting them in the bank

Varda — Yesterday at 8:44 PM
Yay!
[8:44 PM]
11 am Eastern might be better for Irmo, maybe.
[8:45 PM]
But that's 10 am Central here.

Treebeard — Yesterday at 8:45 PM
Yep

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 8:54 PM
Enjoy the fireworks runs, and namarie

Treebeard — Yesterday at 8:55 PM
namarie

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 8:58 PM
Sleep well Phar.

Varda — Yesterday at 9:10 PM
Namarie Pharaohzon
[9:10 PM]
Also looking for beverages to hand out to passersby.

Treebeard — Yesterday at 9:11 PM
I'm not sure how that works... a Secure Trade?

Varda — Yesterday at 9:21 PM
Yes.
[9:22 PM]
Break the stack into smaller numbers or singles, give a Trade. They can take it or not. : )

Treebeard — Yesterday at 9:24 PM
I was invisioning a lemonade stand where they come by and pick one up 

Varda — Yesterday at 9:40 PM
I would love that lemonade stand set-up. : )

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 9:40 PM
:}
[9:41 PM]
In WoW they do have the ability to make "feasts" with a time limit and a number of charges for people to take from.
[9:41 PM]
Would be cool/useful for LotRO to have something similar.

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 10:06 PM
Skimming UT right now, found that mention that I referred to a long while back about Numenorean bows in "A Description of Numenor":
[10:07 PM]
"In later days, in the wars upon Middle-Earth... in those days the great cohorts of the King's Archers used bows made of hollow steel, with black-feathered arrows a full ell long from point to notch."
[10:08 PM]
I cut a chunk out in the middle: the point was to give a rough time period of when they used those kinds of bows.
[10:10 PM]
Boat contests in Numenor mentioned here as well.

Treebeard — Yesterday at 10:20 PM
Time for me to go meandering to bed.  Good night all and Namarie

Varda — Yesterday at 10:20 PM
Good night.

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 10:26 PM
Sleep well Fangorn.

Varda — Yesterday at 11:18 PM
Collected fireworks and pass-around drinks, got my nice outfit and horses set-up. crosses fingers
[11:18 PM]
hopes someone else shows up! We didn't give much notice.
[11:19 PM]
Kin note for noon and 7 pm. Maybe someone will read that. : )

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 11:20 PM
:}
[11:20 PM]
Landroval or Anor?

Varda — Yesterday at 11:21 PM
Landroval.

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 11:21 PM
ok

Varda — Yesterday at 11:21 PM
Anor would be nice but probably not going to happen.
[11:22 PM]
Tried to do that last year and the timing is just about impossible. Maybe if I made another character on another account...  But not this year.
[11:22 PM]
Namarie for now.

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 11:25 PM
I can't guarantee anything but we'll see if I can be there.
[11:25 PM]
For Landroval.

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October 4, 2021

Eonwë Valar — Today at 4:51 AM
Wow, we don't seem to seem to have a word in Quenya for "battle"....

Arien  Valar — Today at 5:19 AM
Aiiya Eonwe
[5:20 AM]
isn t it "dagor" or is that Sindarin?

Eonwë Valar — Today at 5:21 AM
Sindarin it appears.
[5:23 AM]
And the closest I'm finding in the Quenya Worldlist by Beren is "War", but that seems a bit grand to try and use for a fight between two people.
[5:24 AM]
I guess it's a moot point though, because the word I thought to piece together, I'm not sure it'd give the meaning I want anyway.

Eonwë Valar — Today at 6:04 AM
Hmm.
[6:08 AM]
I realize these are very old pages, but it doesn't seem http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/lang/tranQ/translations/BerensQ/wordlistQtoE.htm and http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/lang/tranQ/translations/BerensQ/wordlist.html are 1:1, nor are the originals.
Quenya Corpus Wordlist: Quenya to English
Quenya Elvish to English word list by Beren-((Valar).
Quettaparma Quenyanna: English to Quenya
English to Quenya Elvish word-list by Beren-(Valar).
[6:08 AM]
To be clear, not everything that's in one appears to be in the other in it's like: Ex., in the English -> Quenya page:
[6:09 AM]
GAME tyalië (sport, play) -TYAL/LT1:260
[6:10 AM]
One would expect then "tyalië" to appear with the English definition in the Quenya -> English version, but it does not.
[6:11 AM]
Word of warning because you may miss something expecting both to be an exact flip.

Eonwë Valar — Today at 6:45 AM
OK, if no one else will say it, I will.
[6:45 AM]
Happy 24th Anniversary! :}

Arien  Valar — Today at 6:52 AM
Happy 24 th Anniversary , Valar Guild

[6:53 AM]
oh btw Eonwe these levels for the characters are okay since it is TBC  classic
[6:53 AM]
i forgot Grixis level in retail all right that is level 23

Eonwë Valar — Today at 6:59 AM
OK, fair enough. It was late when I was doing it, so I could've totally blanked on that fact when I was filling out a large chunk of data.
[7:00 AM]
All i was thinking was that it looked wrong, but if that's the case, I just need to make sure it's properly labelled, which works for me :}
[7:02 AM]
Yep, labelled as Classic, so that's just me staring at too much data for too long.

Arien  Valar — Today at 7:03 AM
fair enough and it is late or early rather for you right now .. get  some rest oh mighty one ifd u can]
[7:03 AM]
I am here

Eonwë Valar — Today at 7:04 AM
It's updated now :}

Arien  Valar — Today at 7:04 AM
and yeah it takes me a good one and a half hours to get them al together

Eonwë Valar — Today at 7:05 AM
I know how that is :} Imagine having to skim the entire guild roster :}

Arien  Valar — Today at 7:05 AM
uff

Varda — Today at 8:55 AM
Happy 24th Anniversary!

Eonwë Valar — Today at 11:16 AM
Metroid: Dread coming out this Friday. Just hoping I can manage to get the special edition. I only care about special editions on a handful of games, and this is one of them.

Varda — Today at 11:34 AM
Good luck!
[11:35 AM]
Looking at the comment on Numenorean bows of hollow steel and black feathers, I wonder if Bard's black arrow vs Smaug might have been one or built the same way?

Eonwë Valar — Today at 11:38 AM
It could be. Numenoreans could shoot real far and up close their bows and arrows had great penetration apparently.

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