AriehnV has left the room.
VardaValar1: Whatever just updated itself automatically.
ArPharazonV: hang on, just about to start my journey through Dragonblight... finally done with the first 2 zones :-)
ArPharazonV: also at 2901 quests done now, so I shouldn't be too far from the next title
VardaValar1: Good luck!
ArPharazonV: gonna log out now at the Tuskarr harbor and start questing tomorrow
VardaValar1: 5 minutes past time, 3 of us.
VardaValar1: Don't worry about it.
AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: We should just make a quick meeting.
luthienathariel has entered the room.
VardaValar1: 4 of us now, 5
VardaValar1: Aiya Luthien :-)
luthienathariel: hey Sunday
AriehnV: wwops sorry i somehow fell out of here
VardaValar1: No worries
luthienathariel: Aiya all
AriehnV: aiya Luthien
VardaValar1: That Sunday just keeps coming back every week!
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Aiya Eonwe : )
Eonwe Valar: Wow, talk about timing :}
VardaValar1: New member this week: Aredhel-(V)
VardaValar1: Her husband, Maedhros-(V), gets scouting credit.
VardaValar1: She tested with yours truly, Varda, in LotRO.
VardaValar1: She plays a lot of tabletop rpg games with her husband, but only this one online game: LotRO.
VardaValar1: She's from Virginia in the USA, EST.
VardaValar1: AIM name, for all of your buddy lists:
VardaValar1: Now added to my list and I hope to yours. :-)
oessala has entered the room.
orodrethV has entered the room.
pallandovalar has entered the room.
AriehnV: aye got her and welcome Aredhel :-)
VardaValar1: Aiya Pallando : )
AriehnV: evneing people :-)
VardaValar1: Aredhel-(V) picked Eowyn as a favorite LotR character since
VardaValar1: she was brave, beautiful, and a woman who killed the Witch-king.
VardaValar1: Aredhel-(V) has read the H and LotR, but not yet the Sil.
played with her and her husband and she seems to be a good addition to
the group, although she can only play weekly to a few times a month.
VardaValar1: Any other membership news? Pallando maybe? : )
VardaValar1: We have some new short stories
by Jay of Lasgalen, additions to her Letters from Elrohir series.
Ancbeard has entered the room.
latest are letters from Elrohir to Celebrian (after her leaving to the
West), to Elladan about the choice of the Half-lelven,
VardaValar1: Aiya Ancalagon. :-)
AriehnV: Aiya :-)
VardaValar1: to Arathorn congratulating him on his betrothal and telling about a dream,
VardaValar1: and a letter to Taniquel, a made-up character, a Mirkwood elf girl on whom Elrohir is sweet.
VardaValar1: The series starts here:
VardaValar1: I've tried to repair the navigation.
VardaValar1: If you find errors, please let me know.
VardaValar1: Any further web news?
VardaValar1: Any games played that weren't WoW or LotRO? :-)
ArPharazonV: thinking, but none come to mind
here for Thanksgiving family fun on the LAN using 6 computers. (2 were laptops).
oessala: Still have yet to reac my valar account on eve
VardaValar1: Give it time. Not even Christmas yet. : )
VardaValar1: Did any of your friends sound interested in Eve Online?
VardaValar1: WoW: Europe
VardaValar1: Arien, did you get to meet with any Valarites?
VardaValar1: Ar-Pharazon, how about you?
ArPharazonV: *points to Arien*
VardaValar1: Go ahead, oops. :-)
AriehnV: i guess so :-)
ArPharazonV: I think we said hi in chat, and it pretty much ended there :P
oessala: I actually had a long discussion about what writings from lotr ought to be considered prime fiction..
AriehnV: I ve been a bit jumping around on my AD characters
oessala: from jrrt in lotr
AriehnV: and aye , i said *Hi * to Ar Pharazon , grin but he was somehow occupied in the Borean Tundra
VardaValar1: Prime fiction?
AriehnV: some how out of this world :-)
AriehnV: where do we go now , Oessala maybe first
VardaValar1: Can there be anything in LoTR not considered canon?
ArPharazonV: I did say hi back!
VardaValar1: Good for you, Phar. : )
AriehnV: its a bit of a bum because i dont always see the answers immediately with my action bars on both sides
AriehnV: and then the different polymorphs .. the writing vanishes under there
ArPharazonV: well, I have all my whispers in a seperate window, so I don't miss anything directed to me
VardaValar1: I am curious about what Oessala/Pallando meant, sounded interesting.
AriehnV: oki lets hear him :-) there is not much more to add anyway
VardaValar1: Aye, we have a special tab for IM's in LotRO.
VardaValar1: Pallando, you still there?
oessala: Oh, sorry.
[grew from the Gaming talk above
VardaValar1: I was curious how it could be figured that something in LotR would not be canon
Branched out of a discussion on crew levels in Eve Online, the fiction
and statments by devs clash pretty bad. There's definatly some crew but
how much is an issue.
VardaValar1: Not canon for what?
oessala: anyways, something was said about compairing confliction fiction in eve with that of lotr
VardaValar1: ahh, so conflict within the stories, of Eve and of LotR.
someone made a blanket statment about the hobbit and lotr being jt, and
everything else ct, including the silm, so there was no real confusion
VardaValar1: jt and ct?
oessala: JRRT and Christ Tolkien.
ArPharazonV: JRR and his son :-)
VardaValar1: Thank you
oessala: That'd be Christopher, not christ. >.>
VardaValar1: That sounds pretty reasonable. So how did the confusion come in?
That lead to a discussion on the finer points of what constituted
editing for readability and editing to change meaning, and so forth and
oessala: I should have a log of it somewhere if you like.
VardaValar1: Just interested in the main ideas.
VardaValar1: People trying to do the editing for JRRT had to step carefully, since he knew English better than they did. ;-)
fladrifv has entered the room.
was wading through a mass of conceptualization notes not written by
himself, in fast handwriting often in pencil on whatever paper was
handy in a paper shortage. Rough job.
VardaValar1: Aiya Fladrif :-)
fladrifv: Aiya all
as for comparing JRR's Lotr and The Hobbit to the Silm and UT etc at
edited by Christopher... I just consider everything canon unless
directly contradicted by another book
It was basically a discussion if any editing at all changed the meaning
and thus wasn't actually the author's anymore, not to mention that the
author never intended for that particular version to get published
VardaValar1: AIM does seem to handle longer lines now. Did that cut off to anyone?
oessala: versus just presenting the text in its various forms and going off what the fans had
ArPharazonV: how can you tell that the author never intended it to be published? maybe he just died before it was finished
ArPharazonV: of course, not counting earlier drafts included, but those can't be seen as canon compared to later versions anyway
VardaValar1: It is an interesting thought. I think Christopher handled
the problem very well by showing it as how the books evolved.
the point that if you wanted to even pretend to do anythign with the
language, you had to have the notes anyways, and that was agreed to be
a seperate matter.
didn't have the luxury we do of having so many of his notes available
and in typed, bound copy. His memory was phenomenal, but got him in
was intriguing to see him try to fit the Glorfindel problem together
instead of just side-stepping and calling them separate people.
It was a pretty interesting discussion, and I more or less won my point
and went back to the argument over crew sizes. That didn't go so well,
VardaValar1: So did your group decide to go with the JT and CT versions of the books as different?
oessala: Eneded up agreeing to disagree there. Despite me being *obviously* right.
VardaValar1: Win one, lose one. : )
oessala: /me coughs
VardaValar1: It's still a good question. We tried to decide what we would take as canon for Valar.
VardaValar1: We came up early on with LotR as the final word.
VardaValar1: H was second, with a grain of salt since much of the LotR hadn't been thought of yet.
VardaValar1: We went with Sil over the other Histories and UT,
VardaValar1: although if it wasn't mentioned in Sil but was elsewhere,
that had a good chance of being used as canon if non-contradictory.
VardaValar1: So we can read about zillions of balrogs fighting at Gondolin, but in canon say there were only seven.
VardaValar1: It would be interesting to take the various stories and see how they would be changed to adapt to canon.
ArPharazonV: you are actually proposing to do what Tolkien didn't finish, then? :-)
VardaValar1: The dragons are considered organic instead of mechanical, as well.
VardaValar1: Maybe just see where he would have made his changes if we stuck with what was published by JRRT.
VardaValar1: Make good educated guesses anyway.
fladrifv has left the room.
don't even have to write out the stories, just see where the editing
changes were that he might have made to fit the published LotR.
fladrifv has entered the room.
VardaValar1: There are certain major stories. I'm sure you folks can think of some pretty fast.
VardaValar1: Some won't need changes. : )
alone. Eru creates the Ainu. The Ainu follow Eru's theme with oddities introduced by Melkor and make the creation.
VardaValar1: The Ainu
go into the song and find they have to make it reality, and are stuck there doing it as a labor of love.
VardaValar1: The Valar set up on Arda//Earth because that is where the Children of Eru will be born.
VardaValar1: Ok, now you guys tell what stories happen on Middle-earth next. : )
Eonwe Valar: Melkor
decieds he wants all of Arda.
Eonwe Valar: *decides
VardaValar1: Major point there.
VardaValar1: The Valar say no, he didn't even have the major part in building it.
ArPharazonV: and so now he seeks to rule it and destroy all traces of the other Valar's work..
VardaValar1: Tough job.
VardaValar1: Eventually he would have to destroy all things. Eru does not allow this, but uses him to add variety.
and I remember reading in Morgoth's Ring that he would not stop going
until the whole of Arda was beaten into a formless lump, and it would
still not be *his* formless lump and he would never be satisfied
VardaValar1: Aye, Phar.
luthienathariel: yup, what a nasty piece of work he is eh ....
VardaValar1: Too right, Luthien.
VardaValar1: The elves awaken
VardaValar1: Melkor finds them first and tries to frighten them so they would be afraid of Orome.
VardaValar1: Orome finds them, and what happens?
ArPharazonV: he kidnaps some of the newly awakened Elves, torturing them and breeding them into Orcs
ArPharazonV: Melkor, that is :-)
VardaValar1: But not just any elves.
VardaValar1: The ones that ran frightened, not so curious, not recognizing Orome's light and nobility. The first culls.
VardaValar1: Orome tells the Valar of the elves. All are delighted, but
concerned about the elves' fate with Melkor out there with them.
fladrifv has left the room.
VardaValar1: The first real mistake
is made by the Valar, for love and concern for the elves.
VardaValar1: What is that mistake?
ArPharazonV: deciding that they would be better of in the light of Aman?
ArPharazonV: seeking to take them away from the world and protect them in the splendour of their land?
ArPharazonV: *better off
would be safer from Melkor, but they would no longer be in
Middle-earth, and they were built to be tied strongly to Arda, not even
leaving at "death".
VardaValar1: Aye, Phar.
VardaValar1: They could have instead gone back and forth, being educated.
VardaValar1: But the Valar feared for the safety of the elves, and wanted them tucked under their wings.
VardaValar1: Not all the Valar felt that way, but those were overruled by the majority.
VardaValar1: The elves make the attempt, more or less to go to Valinor.
VardaValar1: How well they made that attempt decided what types of elves
would exist, causing the first real divisions.
VardaValar1: The Vanyar were taken completely out of Middle-earth except to come back as warriors for a short while.
VardaValar1: And to fight later at the end of the world.
VardaValar1: Remind you of the folk of Valhalla? : )
VardaValar1: At the other end, some elves refused to even start towards Valinor, called the Avari, the Refusers.
VardaValar1: These are not really the same as those who started to go but turned aside for various reasons.
VardaValar1: So we have elves made into types between those two extremes, none evil though.
ArPharazonV: sylvans, and the green elves of Ossiriand, for example
ArPharazonV: and the Sindar, I think
VardaValar1: Noldor too
fladrifv has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: I meant those who turned aside
VardaValar1: Many of the Noldor actually made it to Valinor, but returned, then went back again eventually one way or another.
VardaValar1: Aye, those who turned aside are some of those between the extremes of the Vanyar and the Avari.
ArPharazonV: I have a feeling we're talking past each other again ;-)
VardaValar1: The Vanyar stayed, leaving only to go with the forces of the Valar, then returning.
ArPharazonV: anyway, continue
VardaValar1: Ok, then the next big awaited event was the second set of the Children of Eru, the Secondborn
VardaValar1: The humans awoke.
ArPharazonV: again, first found by Melkor
ArPharazonV: he was good at that, wasn't he?
VardaValar1: These were completely under Melkor from the beginning, as he learned something from the mess with the elves.
VardaValar1: He was already in Middle-earth with his minions hunting everywhere, an advantage, aye.
VardaValar1: The humans who could resist him at all had to have strong moral fiber.
ArPharazonV: like the hobbits as we concluded a few weeks ago? ;-)
VardaValar1: So we have the Edain who left Morgoth's rule, and even the Hobbits, who migrated westward away from him.
VardaValar1: Right. :-)
AriehnV: but the Edain Were under Morgoths rule for a while ... but broke free
VardaValar1: Correct, all humans were originally under Morgoth's rule and had to break free.
VardaValar1: Those who did had to have high moral fiber.
VardaValar1: Strong-minded in some way at least.
VardaValar1: Some of these humans made it out to the elves of Beleriand, found by Finrod Felagund.
VardaValar1: These humans worked with the elves, gaining great advantage in education.
VardaValar1: For their help against Morgoth, and it was valiant and
great, they were given the Land of Gift, Numenor, and long lives.
VardaValar1: Hobbits really needed to hold their hands up at this point and be noticed? :-)
ArPharazonV: "Hey, we're down here"?
VardaValar1: Some humans didn't get so far, like the Rohirrim, but were still fine folk.
ArPharazonV: they probably got to the other side of the Anduin by now, split into 3 races or not
ArPharazonV: I meant, the eastside of the Misty Mountains
VardaValar1: We had humans in Middle-earth who met the Numenoreans
and thought them wondrous.
VardaValar1: But the Numenoreans were picking up pride by then, and it became a problem.
VardaValar1: They "conquered" Sauron, whose forces were attacking the people of Middle-earth, and took him to Numenor.
used his Voice on the king and, voila, set most of the Numenoreans
against the Valar, sending them to attack Valinor to force the gift of
ArPharazonV: well, we did "conquer" him in the sense that his forces would not dare fight us, it was not all an act :-)
VardaValar1: But Valinor did not give deathlessness. It was the property of those living in it already.
VardaValar1: True, Phar.
VardaValar1: Sauron took advantage of a rough situation.
VardaValar1: Still, not all the people were deceived.
VardaValar1: Thus we have another division of humans on the high end.
VardaValar1: The Faithful
and the surviving Black Numenoreans
VardaValar1: They were the two types that came to Middle-earth after the sinking of Numenor/Atalante (sp?).
VardaValar1: and before.
ArPharazonV: yeah, missing some accents no doubt, but it works :-)
VardaValar1: The Black Numenorean kings were the sources of the Nazgul.
VardaValar1: *kicks uneddicated self for not being good with making the accents*
Eonwe Valar: The line of the Lords on Andunië became the line of kings in exile.
Eonwe Valar: *Lords of Andunië
VardaValar1: Aye, Eonwe
VardaValar1: They were of the Faithful, and of the ruling line
AriehnV: yep being the children of the younger son of one of the ruling kings or was it a queen?
Eonwe Valar: I only keep a couple of fancy letters in mind, the most obvious being ë :}
AriehnV: ah yes younger daughter then , i forgot my apologies
ArPharazonV: they were the children of the oldest child of Valandil, Silmarien
ArPharazonV: but at that time, women were not yet allowed to rule Numenor
ArPharazonV: so the second child... Meneldur I think?
ArPharazonV: became King
ArPharazonV: so Elendil and his descendants were actually of the older line
VardaValar1: Descended from Tar-Elendil
ArPharazonV: but the fact that Silmarien was a girl kept them from the throne :-)
ArPharazonV: ah, Tar-Elendil
ArPharazonV: not Valandil
VardaValar1: Tar-Elendil was directly from Elros.
ArPharazonV: Valandil was her son
ArPharazonV: bit of a name-confusing on my side :-)
VardaValar1: Tar-Elendil's daughter, Silmarien, had a son, Valandil.
ArPharazonV: at least I got Meneldur right!
VardaValar1: It is said that Aragorn II looked much like Valandil. :-)
VardaValar1: Elendil carried this line into Middle-earth after the sinking of Numenor.
AriehnV: of Elendil descended the High Kings of Arnor
AriehnV: the northern Kingdom,founded by the survivors of Numenors fall
Eonwe Valar: Gondor as well. The kings of both were descendants of Elendil.
AriehnV: and gondors as well aye
VardaValar1: Elendil ruled as High King, his seat in the North Kingdom, sending his sons to rule in the south.
AriehnV: (my brain doesnt really work as it should so forgive)
VardaValar1: Isildur and Anarion, the two we see in stone in the Argonath.
VardaValar1: Sauron's body was wrecked during the drowning and he was unable to again assume a form that seemed fair to men.
VardaValar1: He was furious when he found Elendil still alive, and assembled forces and struck too soon.
VardaValar1: The Last Alliance formed with Elendil for men and Gil-galad for the elves working together.
VardaValar1: The Alliance broke into Mordor and laid siege to Barad-dur for seven years.
VardaValar1: Elendil (and Gil-galad) died there, so Isildur became the new High King.
AriehnV: but he didnt hold this post for very long did he?
VardaValar1: Not too long. And he lost three sons.
VardaValar1: But the youngest, the fourth, was Valandil and took up the position of High King.
AriehnV: and he stayed at this office in Exile .. or did he actally move to Fornost after his coming of age?
VardaValar1: He was king in Arnor
VardaValar1: He was the third High King, and this went on til after Earendur, who was the 10th High King.
VardaValar1: He divided the north kingdom between his three sons
VardaValar1: The three places were Arthedain, Rhudaur, and Cardolan.
VardaValar1: In Arthedain, the line of Elendil endured, but not so in the other two parts.
VardaValar1: Arthedain could therefore rightfully claim High Kingship over Gondor as well.
AriehnV: i just re read that in your lineage of the kings
VardaValar1: Please feel free to help add to the lineage of the Kings project
. It's still full of holes!
VardaValar1: It is a great way to show the history, using links within it, as a super and interesting way of doing a time line.
ArPharazonV: what project is that? we have all the names, don't we? :-)
VardaValar1: Under High Kings, please note a lack of articles going with a whole batch of names.
ArPharazonV: you want articles on the missing names?
ArPharazonV: well, not missing names
ArPharazonV: but unlinked names
VardaValar1: Don't you want the articles too? : )
VardaValar1: Also under Kings of Arthedain, a batch with no articles.
ArPharazonV: well, sure :-)
ArPharazonV: but I'm sure there are kings with nothing to tell, right?
idea is to have each king to have an article, then each article can be
linked to the rest of the Encyc for a fantastic timeline. :-)
ArPharazonV: maybe "lived from xxxx to xxxx" and "son of xxxxxx and father of xxxxx"
VardaValar1: Something happened during each one's rule.
VardaValar1: Some had a great deal happening, but no article yet.
VardaValar1: Even under Chieftains we have some holes.
ArPharazonV: well, I gotta go, anyway, I'm afraid
ArPharazonV: gotta get up in 7 hours
VardaValar1: and Kings of Gondor
VardaValar1: Okie dokie
VardaValar1: We don't lack for things to do for projects. : )
VardaValar1: We also still need
good articles for the upcoming Hobbit movie and the period between the Hobbit and LotR
VardaValar1: Nighty night, Phar!
ArPharazonV: ok, saving and sending
AriehnV: aye got to go as well i fear :-( , early shift
VardaValar1: Rest well. :-)
VardaValar1: *bangs gavel*
AriehnV: thank you :-) Namarie
ArPharazonV (5:38:36 PM): saved
AriehnV (5:38:45 PM): you sleep well as weel when you get to it
VardaValar1 (5:38:51 PM): Boy, I hadn't realized just how many holes myself. I should get to work too.
VardaValar1 (5:38:54 PM): Thank you.
Eonwe Valar (5:39:04 PM): Sleep well./
VardaValar1 (5:39:05 PM): Be a while yet. Just 5:30 pm for me. :-)
AriehnV (5:39:06 PM): *waves and sings beneath the horizon"
AriehnV (5:39:10 PM) has left the room.
VardaValar1 (5:40:02 PM): This new AIM version
seems to be better about saving instead of saying it could not save to that location over and over. : )
ArPharazonV (5:40:14 PM): heh
ArPharazonV (5:41:05 PM): and sent!
VardaValar1 (5:43:09 PM): Something from Luthien - perfect for a gift of stars
VardaValar1 (5:43:12 PM): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUCPSQ_cxZM
ArPharazonV (5:44:06 PM): be sure to add that to the transcript yourself :)
VardaValar1 (5:47:01 PM): That is her own work, not completely finished. Great views and sound track.
luthienathariel (5:47:11 PM): no, not all own work
luthienathariel (5:47:20 PM): I did not play the orchestra ...
luthienathariel (5:47:21 PM): lol
ArPharazonV (5:47:29 PM): the second part seems to be without graphics?
luthienathariel (5:47:30 PM): and the images are edited from the intro of Contact
VardaValar1 (5:47:31 PM): you put them together :-)
VardaValar1 (5:47:35 PM): Aye, unfinished
luthienathariel (5:47:41 PM): yes, the second part is blank
VardaValar1 (5:47:48 PM): I like the star stuff
ArPharazonV (5:47:50 PM): ah :)
ArPharazonV (5:47:57 PM): thought my browser was broken or something ;)
VardaValar1 (5:48:20 PM): Were you going to go into the micro after hitting earth, like into the atoms?
luthienathariel (5:48:22 PM): you also use an antique brower?
luthienathariel (5:48:29 PM): no, I was not planning to
luthienathariel (5:48:34 PM): there is a movie that does that though
VardaValar1 (5:48:41 PM): hmm, this seems to be Mozilla Firefox, not my old browser.
luthienathariel (5:48:48 PM): its called powers of 10
VardaValar1 (5:49:06 PM): It seemed like it would fit what you were doing. Moving from large to small.
luthienathariel (5:49:10 PM): but the graphics on it are not as good ;)
luthienathariel (5:49:16 PM): yes
luthienathariel (5:49:18 PM): it does.
VardaValar1 (5:49:20 PM): You could do it right! :-)
luthienathariel (5:49:25 PM): it is more accurate ..
luthienathariel (5:49:32 PM): this one is more done for effect
ArPharazonV (5:49:49 PM): I was almost thinking you were going to go through the surface of the earth and inside :)
luthienathariel (5:49:50 PM): the powers of 10 one is true to how the scale actually is
ArPharazonV (5:49:54 PM): it would fit with the blackness ;)
luthienathariel (5:49:57 PM): ah
luthienathariel (5:49:59 PM): no :)
VardaValar1 (5:50:06 PM): aye, could show the interior of the earth
luthienathariel (5:50:23 PM): what is there to see? Molten rock ...
VardaValar1 (5:50:23 PM): Go into the fossils if you want to go nuts. :-)
ArPharazonV (5:50:35 PM): aaaanyway
ArPharazonV (5:50:38 PM): off to bed
ArPharazonV (5:50:40 PM): Namarie all
VardaValar1 (5:50:43 PM): Nighty night :-)
luthienathariel (5:50:58 PM): noght
VardaValar1 (5:50:58 PM): Show what the fossils once were if you like.
luthienathariel (5:51:00 PM): i
VardaValar1 (5:51:09 PM): Or go all the way down to atoms.
Eonwe Valar (5:51:30 PM): Sleep well
VardaValar1 (5:51:31 PM): or go into the amazing stuff of geology
luthienathariel (5:51:41 PM): maybe it is more fun to fly to another level of reality, and fly to middle earth :)
VardaValar1 (5:51:55 PM): cool :-)
VardaValar1 (5:52:33 PM): Go into the mind of a man (JRRT), show him,
and go into his mind, then show a new universe, could end with more
stars as he showed them even. :-)
luthienathariel (5:52:39 PM): or maybe try and visualise how the straight road was made bent
VardaValar1 (5:52:49 PM): It's your show. : )
ArPharazonV (5:53:05 PM): enough being distracted by you too, I intend to read the rest on the finished transcript
ArPharazonV (5:53:07 PM): *two
VardaValar1 (5:53:09 PM): Thanks for letting us see your work
ArPharazonV (5:53:12 PM): see ya
luthienathariel (5:53:15 PM): cu
VardaValar1 (5:53:16 PM): I plan to leaave too. :-)
ArPharazonV (5:53:17 PM) has left the room.
VardaValar1 (5:53:21 PM): *leave
VardaValar1 (5:53:56 PM): You have quite a bit on YouTube. Very cool.
VardaValar1 (5:54:24 PM): I'm still considering embedding. Trying to
figure if that would be a good thing or just borrow legal trouble.
VardaValar1 (5:54:42 PM): Link to YouTube is a way out, but might disappear.
luthienathariel (5:54:48 PM): oh
luthienathariel (5:54:57 PM): I have no idea ...
VardaValar1 (5:55:25 PM): YouTube has already taken care of the legalities, and sometimes pulls stuff off.
luthienathariel (5:55:39 PM): yes
VardaValar1 (5:55:43 PM): I would certainly pull stuff off if a complaint is made, and have done so before.