November 18, 2007 Meeting
5pm EST (GMT - 5);
(GMT = 22:00)
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AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
Transcript work by: Ar-Pharazon and Varda
AriehnV, ArPharazonV, arwenv1, Eonwe Valar, fladrifv, GilraenV, VardaValar1 (presiding)
Before-meeting: WoW chit-chat
Tolkien site: new linking. Need articles.
Brood War: Fangorn, Sauron
WC3: The Frozen Throne: Arien
Dungeon Siege: Legends of Aranna: Ar-Pharazon
Worms: Armageddon: Fladrif, Sauron, Bilbo
Argent Dawn: report by Arien
Lothar: report by Eonwe/Auros
Uldaman: report by Varda
LotRO: report by Varda
Two main types of readers according to Orson Scott Card: detached analysts or immersed.
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Yay, I made it.
Eonwe Valar: It didn't let me in the first time.
Eonwe Valar: Heya Phar.
Eonwe Valar: Did you get an invite from me moments ago?
ArPharazonV: hmm, more people might have that problem
ArPharazonV: I didn't
Eonwe Valar: Ok, guess my invites didn't go through either then. I better resend them.
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: brb, pardon
fladrifv has entered the room.
GilraenV has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Ok, invited everyone on my list.
GilraenV: Aiya folks
ArPharazonV: just looted an epic, says it's worth 700g... that's so going into my epic flying skill fund!
Eonwe Valar: Heya GIlraen :}
Eonwe Valar: I only need 200 more gold for mine. I'll get that over
Thanksgiving, if I didn't manage to sell my stuff on the AH last night
arwenv1 has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: I went over 2500 today
Eonwe Valar: I got 75 free silver for doing the quest Nutral gives you if you don't already have 225 flying skill :}
ArPharazonV: aww, I got that when I reached lvl 68
ArPharazonV: being druid and all
Eonwe Valar: Hmm? Were you 68 before or after 2.3 patch? This was
supposed to be a new quest to point new 70s in the direction of the
Eonwe Valar: Welcome back Varda :}
VardaValar1: Aiya Ar-Pharazon, Eonwe, Fladrif, Gilraen, and Arwen :-)
ArPharazonV: I was 68 looooong ago
ArPharazonV: I meant I got the skill at 68
Eonwe Valar: Ah
Eonwe Valar: Well, since I was skipping straight to an epic flying
mount anyway, I saw no reason to grab the 225 skill before I got all
the money together :}
ArPharazonV: I did have a few ventures into Zul'aman though, quests there give a bit of cash too
ArPharazonV: well, druid, eh, we got 225 skill and a flying form for practically nothing at lvl 68
AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Arien : )
AriehnV: Aiya everybody :-)
Eonwe Valar: Heya Arien
arwenv1: the 225 flying skill and mount are so nice though.
fladrifv has left the room.
arwenv1: AND enable you to do dailies that make lots of money
ArPharazonV: that's very true
AriehnV: anyone of you guys who has already the new flying machine?
Eonwe Valar: And the mount takes up an extra space that I'm not willing
to give up due to my already low bag space from carrying around 3 sets
arwenv1: ... then bank a set and get the mount
arwenv1: you can get 80 or so gold a day with daily quests
ArPharazonV: again, Eonwe, druid ;-) no slots for a mount!
Eonwe Valar: You could say I'm doing it the hard way, but eh, it was my choice, and I managed it :}
Eonwe Valar: I don't have room in my bank either, Arwen.
VardaValar1: He's the guild bank too.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, Phar, I saved 2 slots that way as a Paladin :}
ArPharazonV: well, you *have* a guild bank now, don't you?
Eonwe Valar: I haven't set it up yet.
arwenv1: one single space for around 80 gold a day doesnt seem like a..
wise choise when you're trying to get gold for an epic flying mount
ArPharazonV: it's easy and cheap, first tab is only 100g for 96 slots
VardaValar1: Doubt it will hold as much as his guild characters do, though.
Eonwe Valar: The point is, my personal inventory is already packed, I
don't plan on getting rid of it, and my way is working anyway, so I'm
not going to drop it so close to my goal.
VardaValar1: In LotRO, the group helped buy the kinhouse and whatnot,
so you should get group help for the guild bank in LotRO. You should
not have to do it alone.
ArPharazonV: as new guildmaster of The High Guard, our European guild,
I paid for the first tab myself, and got some member-donations together
for the second tab of 250g
ArPharazonV: we should have more than enough space now for anything people want to put in it
VardaValar1: Sounds good.
arwenv1: Sorry, I'm afkish, in Kara now then have to run to ZA =o
VardaValar1: Let's start
ArPharazonV: ZA's fun, I killed the first 3 bosses there
ArPharazonV: was main tank too... so much fun
VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Maybe we should just go ahead and chat WoW since you guys are having so much fun? : )
ArPharazonV: nah, go ahead, just logging out from it
VardaValar1: heh, guess that dries up the conversation.
VardaValar1: Membership has been pretty consistently active in LotRO, and we have our AIM regulars.
VardaValar1: I left a message in LotRO that we're having our meeting, so good luck getting any here. ;-)
VardaValar1: Any membership news?
VardaValar1: Web news:
VardaValar1: I've been adding links to the Timeline under Events and hope that the Timeline may eventually replace "Events".
VardaValar1: It is showing some definite holes in the Encyc that we need your help to fill.
VardaValar1: Take a look at it the Timeline sometime and note that
certain very important places and people have no article at all.
VardaValar1: Nothing for the Two Trees? That's just wrong
VardaValar1: or for the Two Lamps?
VardaValar1: How about an article on the Seven Fathers of the Dwarves?
VardaValar1: The three elves who brought the rest to Valinor don't have articles except for
VardaValar1: Ingwë and Olwë have nothing?
VardaValar1: Morwë and Nurwë led the Avari, but nothing at all on them?
VardaValar1: We have tons of places that need articles
VardaValar1: Rivers like the Anduin and Sirion are important in history, could use info.
AriehnV: Do we have a list of these somewhere? It really would help i think or do we just have to open our eyes ourselves?
VardaValar1: But you can find these holes as well as I can.
VardaValar1: I have a list of requested articles on the first page.
AriehnV: ok great :-)
VardaValar1: I can add a bunch more to it, but it hasn't been getting much action.
VardaValar1: You can also look at the Timeline and see what grabs you as more important or interesting.
VardaValar1: ok, enough of that. I can't possibly put everything on the
requested articles, (which were supposed to be requested, not just all
VardaValar1: Any other web news?
VardaValar1: That's the request list. Some requests have been sitting for years, requested by readers. Not a good thing.
VardaValar1: Wolves and werewolves come to mind, for instance.
VardaValar1: If there is no other web news?
VardaValar1: Fangorn and Meriadoc are currently playing BroodWar on LAN at my house. : )
VardaValar1: Any other non-LotRO or non-WoW?
VardaValar1: for this week?
AriehnV: I have played a bit frozen throne on wed while the patch was downloading
VardaValar1: Cool. I assume you were not in East?
AriehnV: I managed to save four ships this time, followed Illidan to
the new islands and started building up my defense before going
VardaValar1: That used to be our default area.
ArPharazonV: some Dungeon Siege: Legends of Aranna for me, reinstalled and got it working, so got started on the campaign, pretty fun so far
AriehnV: i ve got that set but never find anyone online and dont know how networking works there anyway
VardaValar1: Fladrif usually plays odd things. Doesn't seem to be around?
ArPharazonV: neither on AIM or MSN
AriehnV: he went offline just before the meeting started
VardaValar1: On to WoW
VardaValar1: Arien, would you like to give the Argent Dawn report, Valar or shadow Valar?
AriehnV: Indeed , i would :-)
AriehnV: On Thursday, as it happens our old guild gaming day i grabbed
Menelvagor with his little Warlock Agtharoth , on my new lock Erriants
road to her Voidwalker at level 10 .
AriehnV: Between the two of us, the human and the gnom and our
respective imps we had no trouble to get the book from Surina
whatsoever, and rid of her worthy companions
AriehnV: The only complaint Menel had afterwards was that his void's name was not as nice as Erriants :_
AriehnV: it was fun hehe
VardaValar1: If that's the only complaint, all went very well!
AriehnV: yesterday we had B(e)ar(e) fun in Zul farak - Menel, myself and Ar Pharazon
AriehnV: We grabbed all our druids , Menel - Morningsong, me -
Finduilaswen and Phara - Calaron and rolled the trolls to eternal rest
AriehnV: it was very impressive i have to say even though Cala managed to get us both killed at the begfinning somewhere *grin*
ArPharazonV: hey, I was doing fine with my lvl 70, if you hadn't gotten aggro you would have made it ;-)
AriehnV: true :-) , and they put up too many healing wards
AriehnV: I wish i had a nice walking one such as you :-)
ArPharazonV: oh, yes, the healing wards were annoying
AriehnV: but afterwards we had not much truble even though Morning
suffered a bit more as she healed , a very unusal thing to do for her
ArPharazonV: that's why around the hydra-tank I led the entire group in circles so they wouldn't be healed by totems too much
AriehnV: no prober gear and not the spec but she did well
ArPharazonV: you both did quite well, kept me alive when I took on too many :-)
AriehnV: aye , Cala managed to pull the whole steps after the liberation of Colnel Bly and his mates
fladrifv has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Fladrif : )
AriehnV: Aiyata :-)
ArPharazonV: that was intentional, to test my limits! they were mostly non-elite anyway
ArPharazonV: I just rushed down into the giant mass of mobs standing there :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya Flad!
AriehnV: aye true - to make a long story short , we went up to the pool, got Morning 's quest done and had a lot of fun
AriehnV: unfortunatly Ana was booked for a heroic Mech and so we left the Big Hydra
AriehnV: Thus endeth my report :-)
VardaValar1: Thank you, Arien. A fine tale you told!
VardaValar1: Eonwe, would you like to give the Lothar server report?
Eonwe Valar: Certainly.
Eonwe Valar: This Friday was a relatively late night for me, as I was
working on Physics homework until about 9 and will be returning to it
to finish shortly.
Eonwe Valar: When I came in, Elwing was already having fun in Western PLaguelands.
Eonwe Valar: Since she seemed to be doing fine there, I went to
Dustwallow Marsh on my Priest Kalasul to give the new quests there a
Eonwe Valar: I discovered the new Goblin town of Mudsprocket and gave them aid in setting up.
VardaValar1: Elwing was gaming from my house. ; )
Eonwe Valar: I also helped a Stonemaul Ogre who had fled from Stonemaul's destruction to put is deceased comrades to rest.
Eonwe Valar: *is = his
Eonwe Valar: Once done there, I aided Tabetha's new apprentices, as I
was now easily able to find her farm on the map. Glad some
cartographers finally distributed maps with her location to us lowly
Eonwe Valar: I then returned further northward to aid Theramore in dealing with some new enemies in the area.
Eonwe Valar: Then I gave ol' Jarl a visit. Turns out he wants a
different swingblade now, so I went and got him one from a Murloc
leader, and along the way discovered the Defias have arrived on the
coasts of Kalimdor.
VardaValar1: How dare they!
Eonwe Valar: I noticed in the quest rewards that there was a good deal
of plate, so these might be a god plate for up-and-coming Warriors and
Paladins to quest.
Eonwe Valar: god plate = good place
VardaValar1: Shades of Diablo.
Eonwe Valar: Afterwards, I went into the Hinterlands to complete quests I had there.
Eonwe Valar: I rescued Sharpbeak and found that the gryphon hammer given for saving him is now a blue.
VardaValar1: o cool. : )
Eonwe Valar: I also got the egg for the troll at Steamwheedle Port in Tanaris.
Eonwe Valar: I also killed trolls and brought their neckalces to the Wildhammer Dwarves as proof.
ArPharazonV: too bad they took away that faction...
Eonwe Valar: After that, I called it a night, and thus ends my report.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, it is a shame.
VardaValar1: I had good faction with them, that's why. ;-)
VardaValar1: Thanks, Eonwe
Eonwe Valar: But I have a suvenier of those days on my Paladin Auros: a
stack of necklaces left over from the when that quest was repeatable.
VardaValar1: For Uldaman server's Wednesday,
VardaValar1: Elwing was in Lothar with us Lothar slackers for a while, before she had to go cook.
Eonwe Valar: *souvenier
VardaValar1: About that time I was ready to head to Uldaman and did so.
VardaValar1: and stayed til 5am. *cough*
VardaValar1: I leveled my highest character and ran the rest at least a bit.
VardaValar1: So I have a high cow, er Tauren.
VardaValar1: On to LotRO
VardaValar1: This week one of the main group things we've been running
is the new Goblin Town area quests, including the private instance deep
inside. [note: level 50 or near 50 area].
VardaValar1: The new Great Goblin has been dispatched by the Valar (several times. They never learn.)
VardaValar1: We had a couple of member hit the level 50 cap during the runs.
VardaValar1: and we raised our Rivendell reputation so that our
kinhouse now has a stack of Elven statues to put up for appropriate
VardaValar1: We also have the higher level rep going from all that running that helps our personal characters.
VardaValar1: Fladrif, you came a tad late. Do you have any gaming reports?
VardaValar1: (Tuor and Aragorn have not yet made contact although their characters are on our LotRO friend lists.)
fladrifv: only played chess and nexiuz this week
fladrifv: both ofcoure free and opensource :-)
fladrifv: oh and worms *grin*
VardaValar1: Glad you had a few moments to be able to play anything! And those are nice free games for other members too.
VardaValar1: Worms! o fun! : )
VardaValar1: We play that now and then
fladrifv: I have worms armageddon maybe I can join over internet
VardaValar1: It is pretty rare and unscheduled. But maybe so. : )
fladrifv: oh I advise people who are broke to look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_open_source_games
fladrifv: sorry varda :-)
VardaValar1: ahh, thanks
VardaValar1: sorry I stepped on your report!
VardaValar1: That was a nice service you just gave for transcript reader.
fladrifv: I try to be as hasty as possible for an ent
VardaValar1: If you have a topic, please speak up now. Mine is more in the nature of passing on a comment.
VardaValar1: In Meditations on Middle-earth, Orson Scott Card comments on two main types of readers of Tolkien.
VardaValar1: One type is the literary critic and the products of our educational system.
VardaValar1: These are trying to come up with a decoder ring for whatever story they read, like working a puzzle.
VardaValar1: What was the meaning of the object in terms of current
personal life? Is the author giving away that he has a prejudice?
ArPharazonV: so basically people who try to read too much into stuff?
VardaValar1: They hunt for these puzzle bits and remain detached from the story.
VardaValar1: This is basically detachment.
VardaValar1: The other type of reader lives in the world that opens up for him in the story.
VardaValar1: He finds a good one and is reluctant to leave, maybe even reading appendices!
VardaValar1: He cares that Frodo carried the Ring too long and had to leave Midde-earth, and that a king has returned.
VardaValar1: So this is the opposite of detachment.
VardaValar1: The second type of reader is the one that Tolkien wrote for.
VardaValar1: That was all I had for you folks tonight, but I thought it was interesting. : )
Eonwe Valar: I'd say I more or less agree with that statement.
VardaValar1: Of course there is some middle ground, but that is pretty much what is out there right now.
VardaValar1: What would each of you consider yourselves? Detached or immersed or a combo, or it changes during rereads?
Eonwe Valar: Aye, if those two are meant to be the extemes, there'd have to be middle-ground.
VardaValar1: I tend to be immersed.
ArPharazonV: pretty much the latter one myself, though of course not the *extreme*
Eonwe Valar: I'd say I lean closer to the second. I'm willing to view the world within its own confines.
ArPharazonV: anyway, I'm afraid I have to go
ArPharazonV: I'll save and send
fladrifv: *wave* take care arph
Eonwe Valar: Take care Phar.
AriehnV: Night Night
VardaValar1: We're about done Phar. Namarie!
VardaValar1: Thank you.
fladrifv: I tend to see myself as one who likes to read the books :-)
AriehnV: oh i know what i am :-D
VardaValar1: I doubt the pure analysts would be in our Tolkien fan club. Just not enough fun for them.
AriehnV: I am the second type ;-)
ArPharazonV: I doubt the analysts would really associate themselves with the world so much as to take on their names
VardaValar1: So the second type leaners so far are Eonwe, Varda, Ar-Pharazon, and Arien. : )
VardaValar1: Good point, Phar
VardaValar1: It's kind of like adopting a character and making sure that one is represented in the Tolkien site, too. : )
fladrifv: can be used as axcuse to dig even more analythical into a char
AriehnV: But then i am a natural rper and can adapt to any world or almost any fantasy world if it fascinaters me :-)
Eonwe Valar: I think there is something to be learned from Tolkien's
works by examining them, but picking them apart for meaning as it seems
the first group would as an extreme seems too much.
VardaValar1: Sure, if you enjoy the world, it's fun to take a closer look at it.
VardaValar1: Peer up at the sky and pick out Tolkien's names for the constellations. : )
ArPharazonV: anyway, be sure to save all this after my save, and whatever comes next
ArPharazonV: and I'll read it when it's on the site!
VardaValar1: We will, Phar. Winding down, I think.
VardaValar1: Enjoy. : )
ArPharazonV: Namarie all!
VardaValar1: So Flad, are you thinking you're the first type or in the middle?
AriehnV: namarie , Phar :-)
ArPharazonV has left the room.
fladrifv: Im considering to buy a dictionary actually :-)
VardaValar1: Always helpful.
fladrifv: I have no clue what imm.... means
AriehnV: imm .. what?
VardaValar1: One type analyzes the story in a detached fashion. The
second type feels as if he/she is living in the story, immersed in it.
AriehnV: Immersed - err , like engulfed , surrounded by
VardaValar1: Rereading, we may be more detached.
fladrifv: Im only RPing it, but totaly immersed not
fladrifv: what I have is that as soon as I read a book Im inside it, if its a good book
AriehnV: the trick is to get detached after you stop rping the character
AriehnV: getting immersed is one thing , you have to be to be credible
fladrifv: alike lotro silma odysiues heimskringla and Edda
AriehnV: but detaching is the real art ..
fladrifv: for me personally detaching is not hard at all
Eonwe Valar: I don't having any problems separating myself from the persona of Eonwë :}
Eonwe Valar: having = have
AriehnV: hehe neither me - but i bet it can be hard for some
Eonwe Valar: typing is another subject apparently :}
fladrifv: you nevver got immersed by it Eonwe did you?
Eonwe Valar: Immersed by what? Eonwë's character?
VardaValar1: I know I am not what I am rp'ing. The rp is an effort, like a game.
fladrifv: no typing
Eonwe Valar: Oh, heh.
Eonwe Valar: I sometimes get immersed in my writing :} But I meant making typing errors in my statement :}
VardaValar1: Originally we were talking about feeling as if we were
caring strongly about the world and characters in Middle-earth, that is
all we mean by immersion.
VardaValar1: If we clinically sit back from it all and analyze it, that is being detached, non-immersed.
AriehnV: *being taken up by* , i think is a good synonym
AriehnV: or rather paraphrase
VardaValar1: Thinking only how we can relate the objects and ideas to
current real life is analyzing, not caring about the characters and
fladrifv: who has that more that you are actually in the story and walk around when you read a book?
VardaValar1: If there is a character all through the book that one can
"identify" with, it can feel like walking around in the story.
VardaValar1: Bilbo might be such a one in the Hobbit.
VardaValar1: In the LotR, it tended to be harder.
fladrifv: Im normaly there but not one of the main chars
fladrifv: just next to them
VardaValar1: I think one reason people have trouble with the Sil is the lack of continuing characters.
VardaValar1: Next to them like a Vala : )
Eonwe Valar: I like the Sil personally.
VardaValar1: I also like the Sil
fladrifv: Sil is sometimes more like a history book :-)
AriehnV: I think the Sil has a good storyline with continouous characters
AriehnV: when you follow Feanor for example
AriehnV: he goes on and on
fladrifv: Sil tickles the fantasy more that is what I like
AriehnV: over two ages
VardaValar1: But I can dig into it with a kind of caring for a group as well as an individual. Let's get the song working!
VardaValar1: But I need to like the continuing character, and I didn't like Feanor as a person.
AriehnV: There is much good in the guy ... or has good seeds
VardaValar1: The Sil was an odd case, very interesting, kind of like
watching a train wreck due to the handling of the Silmarils, yet also
seeing Aragorn's ancestors shaping the world and what he would be like.
Eonwe Valar: In Fëanor?
AriehnV: aye - i man he has a lot of admirable traits i think and talent
VardaValar1: Feanor had much talent. But his personality seemed ruled by hubris.
VardaValar1: He didn't seem to feel concern for how his actions might hurt or help other people around him.
AriehnV: and the stones .. he got consumed byjos love for them ... they
became central for him and so he forgot about everything else
VardaValar1: Melkor had more power than any other of the Valar, with a
share in all their gifts. But he used his immense talent wrongly. Not
someone I liked as in fond of.
Eonwe Valar: Fëanor had the potential for good, as does everyone,
but he chose selfishness and pride. Something I am thinking of at this
moment: he seems similar to Ungoliant, in that though he does not claim
Melkor as his master, he is a fairly
Eonwe Valar: evil character at the end.
VardaValar1: True. Independent evil, we could call it. : )
AriehnV: his personality as such only had to suffer by it and it had to go downhill all the way
VardaValar1: The only good I saw in Feanor was that he cared about his father.
Eonwe Valar: I tend to agree.
VardaValar1: Stories need villains to drive the conflict, and he made a
terrific one. He could be respected while tearing everything apart.
Eonwe Valar: I seem to remember somewhere him being referred to as a tragic hero.
VardaValar1: It wasn't by me. ;-)
AriehnV: i need to reread that story with my eyes fixed on him i think - its been a while
Eonwe Valar: Probably a book I read.
VardaValar1: Any excuse to read Tolkien is good! : )
Eonwe Valar: Hehe
VardaValar1: Note that none of Aragorn's blood comes from the Feanorians.
AriehnV: and i do like the Sil :-)
VardaValar1: That is a telling point, I think.
Eonwe Valar: Hmm, maybe Tolkien's works can teach me Physics! *Flips through HoME* :}
VardaValar1: It's quantum physics - song level. Might not be relevant to current homework. : )
Eonwe Valar: Aye, Fëanor's house is the only one that is not included in Aragorn's bloodline.
VardaValar1: I need to go make supper, folks.
AriehnV: lets do the ring warp again .. oops ;-)
VardaValar1: : )
fladrifv: lord of the microns helps maybe
Eonwe Valar: His decisions seemed to be so bad, his line was ruled out of any kingship at any point in time.
VardaValar1: Feanor's brothers' bloodlines were the good guys, generally.
Eonwe Valar: Maedhros was a good guy.
VardaValar1: Maedhros turned over the kingly line in gratitude
fladrifv: we can clone you varda
VardaValar1: Good, go right ahead!
Eonwe Valar: Maedhros wanted to send the ships back at Losgar.
fladrifv: how many needed?
VardaValar1: I almost made a Maedhros character, until I hit the end part of his story.
VardaValar1: long time ago.
VardaValar1: Flad, one googleplex should just cover it.
Eonwe Valar: Maedhros also was one of the few if not the only lefties mentioned by Tolkien :}
VardaValar1: True. Go lefties!
Eonwe Valar: Take care :}
AriehnV: namarie Varda :-)
VardaValar1: that was probably not by accident, Eonwe.
Eonwe Valar: Presuming a right-hand dominant population like we have in humanity, that is.
VardaValar1: Please email me the transcript if you guys continue!
fladrifv: namarie varda
Eonwe Valar: I probably better stop :}
AriehnV: I need to go as well folks , unfortunately
VardaValar1: It was worth remarking on, so probably mostly righties.
fladrifv: Ill save trans then now
VardaValar1: bye : )
AriehnV: *yawns sleepily*