Valar Guild

November 12, 2023 Sunday Meeting

5:00 P.M. Eastern Time
Valar Guild/meeting_place

Back to News
Transcript work by Varda.
[times are Central Time from Varda's Discord. Add one hour for Eastern, which is Valar time and LotRO /servertime.]

Attending (and typed): (7)

rien, Ar-Pharazon, Eonwe, Pallando, Sandalf, Shelob/Ungwetari, Varda
Meeting begins
Membership news:

    Topic: Etymology of Ungwetari
    (non) Flashgaming Reviews (plus) by Ar-Pharazon. Includes Blizzard games afterwards.



Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 4:01 PM

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:02 PM

Varda — Yesterday at 4:05 PM
Aiya : )
[4:06 PM]
Aiya : )
I may be able to chair.
[4:07 PM]
If something comes up, I'll toss this nifty gavel to another fine gaveler. : )
Pardon my time confusion. : )

Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
[4:08 PM]
@Bounder @Guild-friend Yay! Time for the Valar Guild to gang up together to chat gaming and Tolkien, and just say hi to old friends. : )


[4:08 PM]
Arien said she would probably be late to the meeting today due to work.
[4:09 PM]
Anyone else with membership news?
[4:09 PM]
Fangorn and I are in Arizona visiting Eowyn, Faramir, and our grandson. : )
[4:10 PM]
My birthday was Nov 10, for which we had cake and fun. : )

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:10 PM

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 4:10 PM
Happy birthday :}

Varda — Yesterday at 4:10 PM
(chocolate, vanilla, cream cheese, strawberries!)
[4:10 PM]

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:10 PM
I like 2 out of 4

Varda — Yesterday at 4:10 PM
Turned a nice even 70, finally catching up to Fangorn (6 months apart).

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:11 PM
Nice milestone!

Varda — Yesterday at 4:11 PM
Sauron is kindly house-sitting for us. Does that bring up mind-boggling thoughts?
[4:11 PM]
Aye, it is. And a nifty round number.
[4:12 PM]
Eowyn is an amazingly kind hostess, by the way. And Faramir has been wonderful. And of course RealFloppa (grandson) has been tons of fun. : )
[4:12 PM]
Any other Membership news you'd like to pass along?
[4:13 PM]
(Fangorn is currently playing the piano.)
[4:13 PM]
[4:14 PM]
I haven't done much with it this past week, and have not been pulling in goodies from outside for a good while, something we were becoming too dependant on.
[4:14 PM]

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 4:15 PM
Translation: time for all of you to get drawing, writing, and researching :}

Varda — Yesterday at 4:15 PM
You guys and gals and me too, heh.
[4:15 PM]
We have an Encyclopedia to fill in, and side fun sites too!
[4:15 PM]
On to
[4:15 PM]


[4:16 PM]
Eonwe, if you have time, the gavel is trying to jump your way.
[4:16 PM]
(Liveliest gavels in Middle-earth.)
[4:16 PM]
tosses gavel-food and watches it disappear as if in a tank of piranhas

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 4:17 PM

Varda — Yesterday at 4:17 PM
the gavel races in hops to Eonwe

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 4:17 PM
Lord of the Rings Online:
[4:17 PM]
The new expansion, Corsairs of Umbar came out this week. ---
The Lord of the Rings Online
Update 38: Corsairs of Umbar Release Notes
Here are the release notes for Update 38: Corsairs of Umbar, released on Wednesday, November 8th, 2023.

[4:18 PM]
I hear tell there are people out there already working their way up to 150, heh.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:18 PM
Huge release.
[4:18 PM]
(I'm 142 on Fainan.)

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:18 PM
A pirate's life for me ♪

Varda — Yesterday at 4:18 PM
Mariner for me!
[4:18 PM]
(Closiing in on 143)

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 4:19 PM
World of Warcraft:
[4:20 PM]
Bonus event this week was a choice of completing the new Superbloom event or completing the previous content event.
[4:21 PM]
Warlords of Draenor Timewalking also going.

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:21 PM
sneaks in with a homely glow

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:22 PM
Aiya Arien

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:22 PM

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 4:22 PM
Guardians of the Dream is out. ---
 Check out the patch notes. ---
World of Warcraft
Guardians of the Dream is Now Live! - WoW
The time has come to enter the Emerald Dream, engage in new Public Events—Superbloom and Emerald Bounty, build Renown with the Dream Wardens for unique rewards, and save the new World Tree from Fyrakk's forces in a new Raid—Amirdrassil, the Dream's Hope.

World of Warcraft
[UPDATED NOV 7] Dragonflight: Guardians of the Dream Content Update...
Dragonflight: Guardians of the Dream arrives to World of Warcraft on November 7!

[4:23 PM]
For some reason I felt like I was already a week behind, heh, but it came out just this week.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:23 PM
questing in Revendreth patch? what?

Varda — Yesterday at 4:23 PM
(Aiya Sunshine!)

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 4:24 PM
What really surprised me is when I found my month's worth of Traveler's Log work done in a couple of days.
[4:25 PM]
So doing the new stuff is apparently a good way to burn through your monthly requirements to get what you can from the Trading Post.
[4:25 PM]
At least this month it is.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:26 PM
Yeah, therés a ton of stuff in there about dream surges and the like.

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:26 PM
druids of the flame eh? think we met them somewhere before ....

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 4:27 PM
Yep. Back in Cataclysm. They're back, but not quite as bad as the Spanish Inq--- er, Scarlet Crusade. (edited)

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:27 PM

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 4:28 PM
There was a Post-Blizzcon Q&A this week. Check it out. ---
World of Warcraft
Tune In to the WoWCast Q&A - WoW
Thank you for all your WoW Q&A submissions! Join the devs as they answer your questions about WoW, The War Within, Cataclysm Classic, and Season of Discovery.

[4:29 PM]
Then the usual:
This Week in WoW ---
Blues News ---
And of course hotfixes ---
World of Warcraft
This Week in WoW: November 6, 2023 - WoW
Each week we’ll look ahead to what’s in store for World of Warcraft, share the latest news, and keep you in the know byte by byte. Guardians of the Dream arrives this week. Engage in new Public Events—Superbloom and Emerald Bounty, build Renown with the Dream Wardens for unique rewards, and save the new World Tree from Fyrakk's forces in a new R...

World of Warcraft
Blues News: November 10, 2023 - WoW
Stay up to date with World of Warcraft when you join us each week as we round up some of the latest top blue posts and discussions.

World of Warcraft
Hotfixes: November 10, 2023 - WoW
Here you will find a list of hotfixes that address various issues related to World of Warcraft: Dragonflight, Wrath of the Lich King Classic, Burning Crusade Classic, and WoW Classic.

[4:29 PM]
Diablo 4:
[4:29 PM]
There's a new patch, but nothing exciting. ---
Diablo IV Patch Notes
We will continually update this article with all patches the development team implements for Diablo IV.

[4:29 PM]
Diablo Immortal:
[4:30 PM]
New event November 17 - December 1 ---
Gobble Up Rewards from the Harvest Bounty Holiday Event
Enjoy a brief reprieve from Sanctuary’s endless slaughter during the Harvest Bounty holiday event. Plus, reimagine your build with Class balance changes and new Legendary Gem features.

[4:30 PM]
And bug fixes ---
Diablo Immortal Bug Fixes and Patch Notes for All Platforms
We will continually update this blog with all bug fixes and patches the team implements for Diablo Immortal on all platforms.

[4:30 PM]
New Patch before the new expansion: 28.0 ---
28.0 Patch Notes
Grab your hat and your horse, it’s nearly time for a Showdown in the Badlands!

[4:32 PM]
With the new expansion launching Tuesday, the rewards track is getting "refreshed" ---
Showdown in the Badlands Rewards Track Refresh
Yee-haw! It’s almost time for another Rewards Track refresh.

[4:33 PM]
Btw, just for fun....

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:34 PM
Huh, kobold miners on that reward track. Can't be a coincidence that they're also important in Rumble...

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:34 PM
you take no candle~!

Varda — Yesterday at 4:34 PM
: )

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 4:34 PM
LotRO is up to expansion 11, and WoW is up to 9. LotRO came out 3 years after WoW and has now passed it by 2 expansions. We'll see if they squeeze another in before War Within launches next year.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:35 PM

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 4:35 PM
That's it for gaming news from me.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:35 PM
Thank you, Eonwe. : )
A bit more for LotRO:

Lord of the Rings Online gamers in kin this past week:
Landroval branch:

Crickhollow branch:

Treebeard branch:
[4:36 PM]
That's all I have other than personal gaming. : )
[4:38 PM]
Any other gaming, membership, invitations needed?

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:38 PM
Oh, I think Warcraft Rumble got a patch too, not sure where to find any documentation...

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:38 PM
yeah my river hobbit probably

Varda — Yesterday at 4:39 PM
(and for those who know, Jajax the pirate is back. : )
On Landroval, Arien?
Fainan is there now.

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 4:39 PM
I didn't see anything announced on the Warcraft Rumble page.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:39 PM
Hmm, me neither. Well, it did get an update of some sorts.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:39 PM
And due to the update, we have to type again: /joinchannel Valar

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:39 PM
Ah well.

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 4:40 PM
Good reminder, Varda. WIll try to remember to check that next time I log in.
[4:40 PM]
Alas, I don't remember who Jajax is :}

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:40 PM
aye just need the patch run through

Eonwë Valar — Yesterday at 4:40 PM
If I ever met that particular pirate.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:41 PM
Ok, feel free to poke me for a reminder! River Hobbits are fun. : )
[4:42 PM]
Falco has been leveling fast on LotRO Crickhollow on his new River Hobbit Brawler. : )
Aiya Shelob : )

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 4:42 PM
River Hobbits are unnatural... going on water and such. Ick.
[4:42 PM]

Varda — Yesterday at 4:42 PM
Guess you'll have to try Water Skimming. : )

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:42 PM
Aiya Shelob!

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:42 PM
Aiya spidey!

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 4:43 PM
Just wanted to let you know I live still.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:43 PM
Sorry I am late...Veterans day Weekend...lots of things underfoot.

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 4:43 PM
Even though the past couple weeks have been really hard on me mentally.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:43 PM
And Aiya Sandalf

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:43 PM
Aiya Sandalf

Varda — Yesterday at 4:43 PM
Glad you could drop by, Sandalf!

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:44 PM
I am too. Thank you!

Varda — Yesterday at 4:44 PM
And thanks for letting us know you're around, Ungwetari. : )  (Shelob is easier to type!)

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 4:44 PM
That it is!

Varda — Yesterday at 4:45 PM
You know where we are! You have friends. : )

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:45 PM
What does Ungwetari mean, if anything?

Varda — Yesterday at 4:45 PM
It's a name of Shelob.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:46 PM
Ah. Thanks.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:46 PM
Shelob, would you like to field that one?
[4:46 PM]
You can recognize "tar" as high

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 4:46 PM
Uhm... I don't know actually.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:46 PM
Homework time!

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 4:46 PM
I just copied it from LotRO.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:46 PM

Varda — Yesterday at 4:46 PM
Make you go look. : )
[4:47 PM]
Might even find article material when you look!

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 4:47 PM
Maybe another time, I was on my way to bed. It's been a long day for me.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:47 PM
The prefix "tar" is Numenorean, if I am not mistaken, derived from Quenya (or Sindarin?) "Ar," that suggests valor.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:47 PM
You okay? Anything you wish to share?

Varda — Yesterday at 4:48 PM
If you need to talk, we're here.
Or if you would prefer a side chat.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:49 PM
I, for one, have certainly missed hearing from you, Ungwetari.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:49 PM
Pretty sure that in the Numenorean case, "Ar" is the Adunaic version of the Elvish (or Elvish-derived) Tar.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:50 PM
Like Elentari is Elen star tari queen or high one.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:50 PM
Ungwetari sounds more like... low one? Dark one?

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:51 PM
A black-widow spider?

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 4:51 PM
Just that I've had trouble with my energy for months, and there's no clue what it is, though I suspect Long Covid.
And the past weeks, as I said, have been rather trying. I lost my stepfather and my relationship in the same week, the week after I had an accident playing basketball and dislocated my finger, resulting in at least 2 months of non-playing, and last Wednesday I lost one of my cats....
I've had a great deal of fun this weekend with some new friends I made and today cheering my team on, but it's highly taxing, so my energy is pretty deep into the red.

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:51 PM
Spider queen perhaps?

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:51 PM
My condolences.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:52 PM
I am sorry to hear your sad news, but I think it is good to share it, and get it off your chest, even if only a little bit.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:52 PM
Wow, rough time there.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:52 PM
Yeah, that's more along the lines of what I should have been thinking, Arien. Dark or low queen, perhaps spider queen.

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:52 PM
my condolences, spidy , hugs tight

Varda — Yesterday at 4:53 PM
Your own words when you changed:
[4:53 PM]
Ungwetari — 09/24/2023 5:26 PM
So the translation of Ungwetari can be one of two things:
Queen of the spider's web
She that is high on spider's web

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 4:53 PM
Makes sense.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:54 PM
Eonwë Valar — 09/24/2023 5:27 PM
High on (a) spider's web, as in there's a very big spider's web and she's way up there out of reach on it until she comes and gets you.

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 4:54 PM
She is, after all, the undisputed queen of spiders after her mother's demise.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:54 PM
Looked up Ungwetari etymology online and our transcript came up!

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:54 PM
Always better to hold the high ground, according to Von Clausewitz.

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 4:54 PM
Oh, and Thank you all for your kind words.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:54 PM
(as an aside, I always read "long covid" as "lung covid", considering long is Dutch for lung and the disease mostly attacks the lungs)

Varda — Yesterday at 4:55 PM
There is a B12 deficiency that seems like Long Covid too, might check on that.
I think that's right, from memory.
Anyway, get some rest in a bit and know you have friends here. Or hang out in chat.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:56 PM
Echinacea is also a good long-term OTC herb that helps stimjlate the immune system naturally.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:57 PM
[4:57 PM]
So we are in the etymology of Ungwetari and healing herbs. Odd combo. : )

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:57 PM
(It's a weed)

Eonwë Valar — 09/24/2023 5:27 PM High on (a) spider's web, as in there's a very big spider's web and she's way up there out of reach on it until she comes and gets you.
Ungwetari — Yesterday at 4:57 PM
I think that might actually be more a reference to the place she uses as her abode, as it is always in high places... She was born in Nan Dungortheb, high in the mountains of Ered Gorgorothm and later at Cirith Ungol.
[4:58 PM]
So, if the name was given by Elves, it is quite likely the full name would be, "she who dwells on high in the Spider's Webs".

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:58 PM
Or perhaps she had a tendency to get high on Mordor's smokey fumes.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:59 PM
From Tolkien Gateway,  for Ungoliant:
[4:59 PM]
The name is pronounced [uŋˈɡoljant]. In the form Ungoliant the name is technically Sindarin, but is a direct loan from Quenya Ungweliantë (ungwë + liantë: "dark spider"; pron. [uŋʷˌɡʷeliˈante]); the strictly Sindarin form being Delduthling "Horror Night Spider".
[4:59 PM]
    Tolkien Gateway
    Ungoliant was a spirit who took on the form of a monstrous Spider. She was the destroyer of the Two Trees of Valinor.

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:01 PM
I'm trying to find any reference to Ungwetari other than LotRO, but unfortunately, that's all that is referenced.

Pallando-Valar — Yesterday at 5:02 PM
Hi, I'm as usual busy so here's a late gaming and personal update: Havoc, thr next expansion for eve online is out on Tuesday. I'll put the release notes after this.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:02 PM
Aiya Pallando!

Varda — Yesterday at 5:02 PM
Aiya Pallando, and thanks!

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:02 PM
Aiya Pallanda!

Pallando-Valar — Yesterday at 5:02 PM
In personal news, I'll be in Japan for 3 weeks, so likely no updates from me on how Havoc is going until I'm back

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:02 PM
Which doesn't necessarily mean that the name wasn't taken from the Tolkien Legendarium, but it's quite likely it's with a little artistic freedom from Turbine.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:03 PM
(Aribern aka Arien just joined the LotRO kin on Landroval.)

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:03 PM
Or whichever company runs LotRO now.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:03 PM
Cry havoc, and unleash the Pallandos of war.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:03 PM
Japan, cool. : )

Pallando-Valar — Yesterday at 5:03 PM
    EVE Online
    Havoc: Expansion Notes | EVE Online
    The expansion notes for the upcoming Havoc expansion are now available.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:03 PM

Varda — Yesterday at 5:04 PM
(Shelob, might try War of the Ring.)
[5:04 PM]
Thanks for the link!
[5:05 PM]
(Shelob, I don' t have my books but the Shelob article on Tolkien Gateway mentions that ref.)

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:05 PM
From the links you've given me so far, I'd think something like Queen of Spiders or High Spider is the most likely intention by Turbine/whichever.
[5:06 PM]
Since Ungwe can both mean spider and the spider's web.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:08 PM
Ungwe can mean "dark spider".

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:10 PM
I'd say that a game's developer is likely to go for the easiest solution, rather than the most etymologically correct, especially when a language can have so many meanings depending on accents or how the word is formed.
Although I do think that the suffix 'i' indicates a plural?

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:10 PM
Exactly why I'm thinking Spider Queen more than anything else.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:11 PM
And Tolkien was fond of obfuscation AND complication.

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:11 PM
The English language is fond of obfuscation AND complication. ANY language is.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:11 PM
That is for sure...

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:11 PM
And by necessity it must be.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:11 PM
It's just the simplest. And look at it the other way: If you, as game developer, want to name Shelob the spider queen, Ungwetari is possibly the most recognizable you're going to get.

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:12 PM
Although it simply baffles me that not a single language in the world has ever managed to translate the word "gezellig".

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:12 PM

Varda — Yesterday at 5:12 PM

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:12 PM
I've had so many words and concepts that make sense in English but can't be directly translated into Dutch in my head, that I'm quite happy that we've got some uniquely-worded concepts as well.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:13 PM
I assume vice versa as well?
[5:13 PM]
is what you meant?

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:13 PM
Sounds like gezellig is an adverb?

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:13 PM
*that we Dutch have some as well

Varda — Yesterday at 5:13 PM
Both ways. : )

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:13 PM
More like a noun.
[5:14 PM]
But it's really hard to explain, because it's more an abstract concept than something you can actually explain.
It's a feeling, yet it's not.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:14 PM
Though it can easily be conjugated into an adverb.
[5:15 PM]
How would you translate it? Something like socially or decoratively cozy?

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:15 PM

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:15 PM
It sort of means that you have a good time, or a cozy time, but it can be used in a million different settings, and hold a million different meanings, but whichever it is, it is always positive.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:15 PM
Unless it's used sarcastically

Varda — Yesterday at 5:15 PM
Quettaparma Quenyanna: English to Quenya
English to Quenya Elvish word-list by Beren-(Valar).

tari means queen
I still have to clean up the diacriticals on that page.

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:16 PM
Yes, but any positive thing used sarcastically becomes half-negative... that doesn't have anything to do with the meaning of the word, and everything with the meaning of the context in which it is used.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:16 PM
There ya go. Spider queen, spider queen. Does whatever a spider...

Varda — Yesterday at 5:16 PM
: )

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:17 PM
Like if you'd encounter an ornery person, you'd say "well well, aren't we 'gezellig' today?"

Varda — Yesterday at 5:17 PM
(that page is going to be one of those nightmares, heh)

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:17 PM
walks into a funeral "gezellig"... frowns

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:17 PM
But you might as well say "aren't we the ray of sunshine today" and have a perfectly accurate translation.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:18 PM
I am a gezellig today.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:18 PM
Comfortable time?

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:18 PM
And still, it would never cover exactly what the word means, by virtue of it being an abstract concept.
Now that you say it like that, not a noun.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:18 PM

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:18 PM
That is what I was thinking...more of an adjective?
[5:19 PM]
I am having a gezellig day.

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:19 PM
Then it would be conjugated to gezellige.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:19 PM
Sounds better, or "today is gezellig"
This room is gezellig.
This party is gezellig.
You are gezellig.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:19 PM
discord is gezellig.

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:19 PM
This meeting definitely is gezellig.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:19 PM
What a gezellige atmosphere.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:20 PM
The Valar Guild is gezellig.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:20 PM
props feet up by our cozy fire while lounging on the big soft couch because it's now...


Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:20 PM
Doesn't adding the "e" to "gezellig" make it German?

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:20 PM
Gezelligheid (Dutch pronunciation: [ɣəˈzɛləxɛit] ) is a Dutch word which, depending on context, can be translated as 'conviviality', 'coziness', 'fun'. It is often used to describe a social and relaxed situation. It can also indicate belonging, time spent with loved ones, catching up with an old friend or just the general togetherness that gives...

Varda — Yesterday at 5:20 PM
gavels are flopped out on the rug in front of the fireplace, with the hammerpad. Lazing off.

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:20 PM
Well, Dutch is a German language...
[5:21 PM]
And the German word for German is Deutch.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:21 PM
Hmm, that does sound like our channel. : )

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:21 PM
Like the Pennsylvania Dutch, who speak not Dutch, but old German.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:21 PM
I'd call it Germanic rather than German to prevent misunderstanding

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:22 PM
And Dutch at some point was called Neder Dietsch, which was half Dutch half German for lower German, but more in the sense of being in the lowlands, because German already had 2 different language variations, high and low German, of which Low German became the standard for both Dutch and English.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:22 PM
(also known as West German)

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:22 PM
Yeah, the whole Dutch/Deutsch thing is a nightmare.

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:22 PM
Also, Low and High German have nothing to do with nobility, but everything with geographical location.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:23 PM
Sometimes HIGH, sometimes loooooowwwww....

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:23 PM
Manchmal im Mittel.

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:23 PM
Pharzy, get off them shrooms in those caves, they are NOT good for you. (edited)
[5:24 PM]
Many times in the middle.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:24 PM
Germanic for the whole set of similar speech makes good sense, Phar.

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:25 PM
Most Dutch people are bilingual in varying forms of fluency. Many are even tri or quadri-lingual.
A lot of people in higher educational forms of high school will have had some German, French, Spanish or a combination thereof.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:26 PM was actually what I was thnking of, sorry for the misquote  And yes, I did watch The Hobbit recently!
The Hobbit - Bofur Sings (Extended Edition HD)

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:26 PM
Alongside English, of course, that's a mandatory exam subject at the end of High School.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:26 PM
US is going to need to know the language of 147 countries, too much for me! I'd rather everyone learn something like English for a common tongue between us. And that's all I have to say about that. : )
hah Bofur! : )

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:26 PM
Good old James Nesbitt.

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:27 PM
I think Spanish wouldn't actually be a bad second language for the US.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:27 PM
Tell that to the nearby Vietnamese neighborhood. : )
[5:28 PM]
Everyone can have their own language, but also know one for Common speech. That helps in so many ways.
[5:29 PM]
Just because many are coming through the border with Mexico doesn't mean they know any Spanish.
It used to be common was Latin or French, then English. What's next? Chinese? : )

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:29 PM
Oh yes, but when 42 million people out of the approximately 300 something in your country speak another language, it's maybe a matter of finding more common ground.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:30 PM
I know Dutch, I know English, have some rudimentary German and French (mostly what I remember from the basic reading courses in high school) and am still currently learning Japanese. I've found I'm mostly a fan of foreign alphabets, though, so I'm also considering Arabic or Russian for the future, though Spanish would be more practical.

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:30 PM
Like, for the longest time the French absolutely refused to teach ANY English in most schools.... until the European Union forced them to rethink that policy, now the younger generation is pretty fluent in English.
[5:30 PM]
All it takes is for someone to bravely make that idea a reality.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:30 PM
(That said, if some trends people fear actually come true, we'll all be speaking Russian or Arabic in the future here!)

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:31 PM
I wouldn't mind that either.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:31 PM
I didn't say don't know other languages, just settle on one common tongue. And if others are coming to the US, isn't it reasonable for them to learn the local language for the common tongue?

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:31 PM
If that brings us together, I'd speak Martian if need be.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:31 PM
Or Chinese. : )
[5:31 PM]
Aye, Martian here we come!
[5:32 PM]
But English is already pretty well all over the world.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:32 PM
Oh, if learning one knowledge was all it took to communicate with everyone, I'd go for it in a heartbeat. Martian, indeed.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:32 PM
Aye, Phar.

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:32 PM
It really kills me how the world is so damn set on "this is mine and it will forever be mine" instead of thinking in terms of what can bring us together.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:32 PM
*one language

Varda — Yesterday at 5:32 PM
So, want to learn Latin again? It was the earlier common tongue.
[5:32 PM]
I took a couple years of it.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:32 PM
What was the name of that artificial language they tried to create for all of us to learn, but it never took off?

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:32 PM
But, that treads dangerously into the grounds of politics, and with that, I think it's time for me to make good on my earlier statement and head to bed.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:32 PM
(But it has three pronunciations that I know of.)

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:33 PM

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:33 PM
Yes, that's it.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:33 PM
Aye, time to skeedaddle. : )

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:33 PM

Varda — Yesterday at 5:33 PM
Supper is incoming. And Eowyn is a great cook!

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:33 PM
Dinner beckons, and I come, Graymalkin!

Varda — Yesterday at 5:33 PM

Ungwetari — Yesterday at 5:33 PM
Thanks everyone. It was fun taking my mind off things for a bit, even if it was tired as heck.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:33 PM
Rest well. : )

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:34 PM
Until later! I too must beat a temporary retreat for dinner and so on. Be back later! Namarie!
When Shall we three meet again?

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 5:34 PM
Rest well and good night Spidy

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:34 PM

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 5:34 PM
hugs another tighty
Namarie Sandalf
in thunder , ligfhtning or in rain?

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:36 PM
In thunder, lightning, or in rain? When the hurly-burly is done, when the field is lost or won. Where's the place? Upon the heath, there to meet with Macbeth. Paddock calls anon, Graymalkin, I come! Fair is foul, and foul is fair, hover through the fog and the filthy air.

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 5:36 PM

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:36 PM
And all that is gold does not glitter.

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 5:36 PM
not all those who wander are forlorn
the old that is strong does not wither
deep roots are not reached by the frost
From the ashes a fire shall be woken
a light from the shadow shall spring
renewed shall be sword that was broken
and the crownless again shall be king

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:38 PM
Heh, I just found the "fair is foul and foul is fair" bit to remind me of the verse
[5:40 PM]
K, time to hit some Rumble before I watch a movie, and I've got a questionnaire to fill in as well...

Varda — Yesterday at 5:40 PM

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 5:47 PM
and i should hit the blankets soon

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:48 PM
Let them hit you!

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 5:49 PM
although it did make me laugh that on my quest Aribern chucked the water of the bucket in the face of the questgiver that asked him to retrieve it
but yeah it is

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:49 PM

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 5:49 PM
Namarie all

Varda — Yesterday at 5:51 PM
Namarie : )

Varda — Yesterday at 7:22 PM
Eowyn fed us Shephard's Pie. : )
[7:22 PM]
Namarie again.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 7:23 PM
I am still browsing while waiting for Ar....Namarie to all those leaving!

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 9:05 PM

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 9:14 PM
Aiya! Personal gaming report time

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 9:14 PM
Aiya! I am ready. Lay it on me.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 9:16 PM
For (non)flashgaming, 4 out of the 7 badges for this week were new... of those, 3 games I'd never played before, but they're all pretty generic grindy card games or multiplayer games, so instead I'll give you one I'd already done.
[9:19 PM]
Which is one in a series of puzzle platform games, each game having 15 levels, and featuring a new character with some unique abilities.
Sticky Sorcerer
Simple platformer about a Sorcerer that likes to stick around when he visits.

Created by eddynardo
Graphics by 0×72 and Adam Saltsman
Song quotLeafless Quince Tr...

[9:20 PM]
In this case you play a sorcerer who can dash over things, dash up walls, possess creatures and monsters to make use of their abilities... and, rather than opening the chests to free people like in most of the other games, this time you have to put them in the chests

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 9:24 PM
Blizzard gaming:
[9:25 PM]
Diablo 4: Decided to complete the last 2 objectives for season journey chapter 1, including 2 dungeons.
[9:26 PM]
In doing so, got my character from level 10 to 18, getting my ultimate blood ability and basically becoming pretty powerful
[9:28 PM]
Hearthstone: Made it to level 111 (good number!) on the reward track. Also opened some packs, getting 2 new legendaries.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 9:29 PM
A good number indeed. Almost like 777.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 9:29 PM
Also made it back up to 1000 gold, so I checked whether there were any new class skins up in the store for 1000 gold, and indeed, I bought the Sally Whitemane priest skin, one of the leaders of the Scarlet Crusade.
[9:30 PM]
Brawl this week is Shadow Reflection: put as many cards in your deck as you want, and the rest of the 30 slots will be filled with shadow reflections, cards that copy the last card you played this turn.
[9:31 PM]
I went extremely simple, just using 2 cards in my hunter deck: 1 mana, put 3 4/1 1-mana worms in your hand. Combining that with the reflections allows for some fast overwhelming of your opponent.
[9:32 PM]
It has some weaknesses though... with only 2 cards, you're not always going to have them in your opening hand, which can put you far behind. But when it works, it works well!
[9:34 PM]
Warcraft Rumble: Making good progress! Good from level 6 to 14 on my account level, and got 3 new leaders for 3 different factions:
[9:34 PM]
Charlga the beast leader, who isn't that good, but I like the beast family, so I'll take it

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 9:35 PM
What kind of beasts comprise the Beast Family?

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 9:35 PM
Sylvanas Windrunner, for the undead family: We got her unlocked through war chests, and through that she started at uncommon rarity. Being uncommon, her talents started to appear to buy immediately, and I got her Black Arrow, apparently the best talent for her.
[9:36 PM]
Hmm, there's gnolls, vultures, swarms of chickens, some quillboar, murlocs (fish-people)...
[9:37 PM]
Oh, also wolves and spiders.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 9:37 PM
They all sound pretty gruesome, except for the swarms of chickens...?
[9:37 PM]
Oh no! Carnivorous chickens! What is this world coming to?

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 9:38 PM
Angry Chickens have been a bit of a joke minion since the early days of the Hearthstone game, but while they're low in health, they come in large numbers and can do damage quite rapidly
[9:38 PM] for a look!
Warcraft Rumble Angry Chickens
View all the stats, talents, and more for Angry Chickens in Warcraft Rumble.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 9:38 PM
Sorry to interrupt you with my uninformed question...

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 9:39 PM
That's fine  Oh, almost forgot the raptors, can't forget the raptors  Quite versatile, them beasts.
[9:40 PM]
Oh, got 4 new leaders, actually. The third one is the Horde leader, Cairne bloodhoof, who gives extra health to horde minions in your army, and he's a pretty good tank as well.
[9:40 PM]
And the fourth is Rend Blackhand for the Blackrock family, filled with dragons, fire casters and elementals.
[9:41 PM]
So now I've got at least one leader/army for each of the 5 families  And they're all pretty good too, though I'd prefer to replace Charlga for beasts with Hogger the gnoll. But I'm sure that'll come.
[9:42 PM]
I also got a lot more minis off the grid, and now have 47 out of 54. Almost done!
[9:43 PM]
And with 5 armies ready, I should be able to make some progress through the map, depending on what bosses we face. I've completed the Barrens, Ashenvale and Darkshore, and am now in the Thousand Needles.
[9:43 PM]
I've also unlocked the dungeon; each week there's a dungeon for a different family. Last week it was Horde, and I got Cairne just in time to get a few runs done there, and this week it's blackrock. I'll need some practice with blackrock though, it's not going well
[9:44 PM]
Completing dungeon runs gives permanent upgrades for your army slots for the leader in question, so it's quite useful to get as far as you can. But if you fail... just get a few levels!
[9:44 PM]

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 9:47 PM
Next week, raiding starts again! Patch is here now, and raid opens a week later. Someone found a simulation game to practice for the raid as well, at which I'll try out before we go in
Pineapplassil, the chef's hope by TacticalAirHorse
A training mini-game for the Amirdrassil raid

[9:48 PM]
Weekly is timewalking in Warlords of Draenor, been a while since I did that, I think. No good reward, though; the rewards are still for the previous season, since the new season doesn't start until next week.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 9:58 PM
I tried the game above....i could not get it to work. I am not sure what I am supposed to do, or how to do it. Sort of the story of my life, I suppose.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 9:59 PM
If you're talking about the WoW fight, I guess you need a bit more knowledge of the game, not sure.
[10:00 PM]
Anyway, finally, I got a bit of alting done with the mage in Revendreth, starting the questline to take on the Accuser, by bringing down her 2 lieutenants by finding their sinstones and using them against them, leaving the Accuser's sinstone unprotected. Next week, the fight against the Accuser herself!
[10:00 PM]
And that's my report for the week
[10:04 PM]

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 10:11 PM
Namarie! It is a cold night tonight, and I baked some brownies in the oven. I had to step away for a moment to get them out to cool. Have a wonderful weeek!
[10:11 PM]

November 13, 2023

Eonwë Valar — Today at 1:56 AM
Sorry, I had a long day and fell asleep not long after giving the Gaming News. In regards to the conversation I missed, I'd just say this:
I don't go to China expecting Dutch to get me anywhere. I don't go to Finland expecting to speak French. And I don't go to Germany expecting to see signs in English. One should expect to speak the language of the nation they go to. One should appreciate the culture of the nation they're going to, especially if they're planning to live there because all the great things you presumably like about that country is because of its history and culture, not in spite of it.
There's more than just language and "I don't want to get along" that divides us. There's understanding of concepts like freedom and responsibility, the rights of individuals(/ who counts as an individual) and who grants them (because the entity who grants those rights can take them away), and the limits(or lack thereof) of the authority of government. These are concepts well beyond the realm of politics (into Philosophy, the parent realm of the studies of all such knowledge). These aren't reasons to be lightly dismissed. (edited)
[1:56 AM]
As for the less important but more interesting and fun parts of that conversation:

Eonwë Valar — Today at 2:17 AM
"Ungwe" is defined in RotK Appendix E because it's the name of a letter. The meaning is "spider's web" , So that's the official definition LotRO can use. The ending -i can denote plural, but Tari is specifically the feminine form of "Taro". The Lost Road shows lines over the "a" in both words "Taro" and "Tari", with another over the "i" in the latter. Barring correction, I would suppose that means long sounds on both, so "Tay-Rye". Of course in Quenya this simplified to a form similar to plural "Tari" with an accent over the "a" and nothing over the "i", so if memory serves pronounced like "Tar-ee". (edited)
[2:17 AM]
Not to be confused with the Tau'ri from Stargate, heh.
[2:21 AM]
Also( in relation to some words not translating well from one language to the next), I'm reminded of a scene from the movie Hondo, which I can't find a clip for so here's the dialogue (Hondo is a Western starring John Wayne as the title character. He's talking to a woman named Angie Lowe, who just asked him about his deceased Indian wife): (edited)
[2:22 AM]
[2:22 AM]
Hondo: I can't remember anything unhappy about Destarte. (edited)
[2:22 AM]
Angie: Destarte? How musical. What does it mean? (edited)
[2:23 AM]
Hondo: You can't say it except in mescalero. It means morning. But that isn't what it means either. It means more than just that. Indian words mean the sound and the feel of a word, like crack of dawn, the first bronze light that makes the buttes stand out against the gray desert. The first sound you hear of a brook curlin' over some rocks, with trout jumping. It's like when you get up in the first light, just you and her and you go out of a wickiup where it smells kind of smoky and private, just you and her, and kind of safe with just the two of you. Stand outside and feel the bite of the first wind comin' down from the high divide that promises snowfall. Can't say it in English, but that was her name. Destarte.
[2:23 AM]

Varda — Today at 2:41 PM
Beautiful. And thank you.