October 17, 2021
Sunday Meeting
5:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Savings
Time
Discord: Valar
Guild/meeting_place
Back to News
Transcript work by Varda.
[times are Central Time from Varda's Discord. Add one hour for
Eastern.]
Attending (and typed): (5)
Discord: Arien, Ar-Pharazon, Eonwe,
Sandalf13-(T), Varda (presiding)
Before-meeting
Meeting begins
Membership news:
Sandalf13-(T) says his few words. :)
Web:
Anniversary page (continues taking
your contributions to the Tolkien Site as Anniversary-marked
through the end of October.)
Gaming:
World of Warcraft, Overwatch, Hearthstone, Lord of
the Rings Online, Starcraft, Minecraft
Tolkien:
Topic from Arien: visited the area
near Tolkien's Oxford.
Topic from Sandalf13: Books or
movies?
Topic from Sandalf13: Beards
Topic
from Sandalf13: Denethor
Topic from Sandalf13: Tolkien did
NOT intend for the fate of mortals and the Eldar to be forever
separated.
Topic
from Sandalf13: Saruman, a downfallen character.
After-meeting:
(non)Flashgaming
Reviews (plus) by Ar-Pharazon. Includes Blizzard games.
top
Before-meeting
Sandalf13
Yesterday at 3:28 PM
BTW, on the Frontspiece of the PhD dissertation on the coal beds
of The Joggins, Nova Scotia, Canada, and Southeastern Nebraska,
USA, I put the quote from Gollum: (paraphrasing) "The roots
of those mountains must be very deep indeed, there must be secrets
buried there which have not been known since the beginning." One
cannot get more geologic than that.
[3:29 PM]
I mean MY dissertation (Univ Pittsburgh, 1981).
[3:30 PM]
Enjoy your game. I am sorry to have disturbed you again. Good
luck! [Note: absolutely not a disturbance.]
[3:31 PM]
How do I logout?
Varda Yesterday at 3:37 PM
o sorry, missed your comment.
[3:37 PM]
I love your quote. : )
[3:37 PM]
Go to Settings (gear bottom left), all the way down, click the red
log out.
[3:38 PM]
And grats on making it through something as amazing as a PhD
dissertation!
October 17, 2021
Varda Today at 4:00 PM
Aiya all!
Eonwλ Valar Today at 4:00 PM
Heya :}
Varda Today at 4:01 PM
Good to see you, Fionwe. : )
Sandalf13 Today at 4:01 PM
Hallo! I made it! Finally!
Varda Today at 4:01 PM
Sandalf! Welcome. : )
Sandalf13 Today at 4:01 PM
Thank you.
Varda Today at 4:02 PM
Hey, you're never late, showing up just when you were meant to.
Sandalf13 Today at 4:02 PM
Sounds a bit Gandalfian, to me.
Varda Today at 4:02 PM
@Bounder Aiya! It's that time, chat about gaming and Tolkien and
just say hi to old friends!
[4:03 PM]
There we go. The reminder was remembered this time.
[4:03 PM]
top
Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
[4:03 PM]
A star shines on the hour of our meeting.
[4:03 PM]
Membership:
[4:03 PM]
Very happy to have Sandalf13-(T) with us for the first time today.
[4:04 PM]
Would you like to say a few words of introduction? Maybe how you
found us and what you're hoping for?
[4:09 PM]
Saw you typing but then it disappeared. Problem?
Sandalf13 Today at 4:11 PM
OK...you asked. I am an avid Tolkien fan, and have been so since I
first read the LoTR back in the dark ages of 1970. I graduated
from Lafayette College in 1971, at the ripe old age of 20, and
immediately went on active duty in the Navy, missing my own
college graduation in the process of my service. I completed my
(first) active duty tour in the Navy in Aug, 1974, and returned to
Lehigh University to earn a M.S. degree in geology, followed by a
PhD at University of Pittsburgh in 1981. Got married in 1975, and
had five kids, one of whom, my oldest daughter, was very active in
the LoTR film support group. She attended all three LoTR Oscar
parties, and goes by the handle Luthien III. At least she credits
me for reading the Hobbit to her when she was a child! So. I am
working on a non-fiction collection of essays about the LoTR that
I would like to publish someday, and need some help with that. I
have four chapters completed already, in no special order, they
are: The Last Line in Tolkien (a study of his segment ends), A
Case of Influence: Aragorn as Sherlock Homes, The History and
Geopolitics of the Third Age of Middle Earth, and Denethor as
Macbeth: THe Tragedy of the Last Ruling Steward of Gondor. I have
a chapter on the Geology of Middle Earth well in hand, and plan to
write a few more on the Etymology of the LoTR, Character
Development, and Character Influence. So there it is. Sorry if I
have taken too much of your time!
Varda Today at 4:12 PM
Not at all.
[4:13 PM]
Feel free to publish with us.
[4:13 PM]
Here's hoping you didn't miss your other graduations!
[4:15 PM]
How are you on time? We usually go for about an hour formally,
then it goes informal.
Sandalf13 Today at 4:15 PM
Actually, yes, I did. The ONLY graduation I attended was my M.S.
degree from Lehigh, in June, 1976. I was unable to accept my PhD
in person because I could not get the time off from work at
Pennzoil Oil and Gas Exploration to return to Pittsburgh for my
graduation. Oh Well. I completed the coursework for a Associate
Degree in Financial Planning, and did not attend that graduation
either due to Covid. So it goes.
Varda Today at 4:15 PM
Wow.
Sandalf13 Today at 4:16 PM
I am here for the duration. As I said, I would mostly like to
learn from you guys this first visit.
Varda Today at 4:16 PM
You are hereby on stage. Feel free to walk across and we thank you
for having published a story with us and having come to a live
meeting, exceptional!
Arien Valar Today at 4:17 PM
oops i pullled Vardas trick and typed in harbour Aiya I am
back
Varda Today at 4:17 PM
heheehe - contagious! Aiya Arien.
[4:18 PM]
Sandalf, meet Arien, steering the sun for us, so I call her
Sunshine.
Sandalf13 Today at 4:18 PM
Ooops...I forgot. Just to complete my background, I also have a
M.A. degree in International Relations from Salve Regina College
in 1988. I missed that graduation too. Oy Weh!
Varda Today at 4:18 PM
That is a lot of missed graduations.
Sandalf13 Today at 4:18 PM
Aiya Arien!
[4:18 PM]
You betcha.
Varda Today at 4:18 PM
Feel free to toss your hat in the air as you walk across the stage
here.
Sandalf13 Today at 4:18 PM
How does one do that?
Varda Today at 4:19 PM
One types that they're walking across the stage and tossing their
hat. : )
[4:19 PM]
Rather like a MUD.
Sandalf13 Today at 4:19 PM
I am walking across the stage and tossing my hat...whatever that
means. I think I understand the walking part, but tossing the
hat?? Sounds sort of like Harry Potter.
Varda Today at 4:20 PM
Happy graduations!
Sandalf13 Today at 4:20 PM
Thank you all.
Varda Today at 4:20 PM
thunderous applause from all of Arda
Belated graduation walk. : )
Arien Valar Today at 4:20 PM
esp;ciially when noine answers an d you really held a lengthy
intersting intoduction to a topic for discussion
Sandalf13 Today at 4:21 PM
I am overwhelmed by your generosity and kind comments. Vielen
Dank!
Varda Today at 4:21 PM
Our pleasure.
Arien Valar Today at 4:21 PM
congratulations
Varda Today at 4:22 PM
Any other membership news? I believe Ar-Pharazon will be a tad
late, but probably be here after a while.
[4:22 PM]
Fangorn is doing carpentry as is Sauron but say hi!
Eonwλ Valar Today at 4:23 PM
Ack!
Varda Today at 4:23 PM
Misbehaving huorns really shouldn't misbehave.
Eonwλ Valar Today at 4:23 PM
Really? Fangorn and Sauron doing carpentry?! Together? That sounds
suspect... (edited)
Varda Today at 4:23 PM
It does indeed!
Eonwλ Valar Today at 4:24 PM
I hope they're being checked on regularly. I wouldn't want the
tree-man to find himself as a floorboard in the Barad Dur :}
Varda Today at 4:24 PM
eep! checks quickly
[4:24 PM]
No problem. He has the protection of at least one Valie.
Eonwλ Valar Today at 4:24 PM
:}
Varda Today at 4:25 PM
Sauron said he would have provided floor polish, so he was showing
respect.
Eonwλ Valar Today at 4:25 PM
:}
Arien Valar Today at 4:25
PM
well I am back fromj holiday pretty near where Tolkien lived and
taught mosst of the Time
Varda Today at 4:25 PM
(Fangorn and Sauron are members. Fangorn is my husband, Sauron is
our son.)
[4:25 PM]
Ah hah!
Sandalf13 Today at 4:25 PM
Since we are on the topic of membership, should I send any
additional friend invites to other members of the group? If so, to
whom?
Eonwλ Valar Today at 4:26 PM
Cool Arien :}
Varda Today at 4:26 PM
You are fine, Sandalf. The others also show up in this channel.
[4:26 PM]
Whereat, Arien?
Arien Valar Today at 4:27 PM
Swndon which is in Wiltshire where Bruce s parents lived
[4:27 PM]
and that is about what ... ten or twenty froim Oxford?
Sandalf13 Today at 4:28 PM
My father was a WWII Vet, and spent some time in England prior to
the movement of Patton's Sixth Armored Division to France and
Germany. I believe that he mentioned passing through Swindon at
some point in his travels through England in 1944.
Varda Today at 4:29 PM
He may have been near Christopher Tolkien!
Sandalf13 Today at 4:29 PM
Indeed. The older one gets, the smaller the world becomes.
Varda Today at 4:29 PM
and the faster the time passes. Percentages. : )
Sandalf13 Today at 4:30 PM
Nary a day passes when I fail to remind myself that every moment
is precious (no pun intended).
Varda Today at 4:30 PM
Arien, did you get to see anything like memorials or ads about
Tolkien ate here, or such?
[4:30 PM]
I have to remind myself of that too. It slides by so fast.
Arien Valar Today at 4:31 PM
no but we went to stonehenge and avebury stonecircles
Varda Today at 4:31 PM
Fantastic. : )
[4:31 PM]
No wasted time there!
Arien Valar Today at 4:32 PM
i am pretty sure some of these inspired featues like the
Barrow Downd and their unholy inhabitants
Varda Today at 4:33 PM
Interesting and possible.
[4:33 PM]
He loved to hike and must have visited some of those places.
Arien Valar Today at 4:34 PM
my theory anyway and for Tolkien as history professor he surely
would have been there
Sandalf13 Today at 4:34 PM
I always think of T.S. Eliot and his poem, "The Waste Land," when
I think about the Barrow Downs. The English countryside has
inspired more than its fair share of authors, I believe.
Varda Today at 4:34 PM
Agreed
[4:35 PM]
with both of you.
[4:35 PM]
Except for the share being too much. May it inspire many more!
[4:36 PM]
waits for Arien to write a short story of some of the Fellowship
moving through ruins suspiciously like Stonehenge
[4:36 PM]
Moving on to
top
Web:
[4:38 PM]
The Anniversary page is open for Anniversary screenshots and
Tolkien Site goodies for all of October. Be sure to mention that
your entry is in honor of our anniversary so it has that little
extra added to your work.
[4:38 PM]
http://valarguild.org/varda/guild/NewsArchives/extras/2021/anniv24th.htm
24th Anniversary of the Valar Guild
Year 2021, 24th Anniversary celebration of the
Valar
Guild Tolkien fan club and gamers' group.
[4:38 PM]
Eonwe, you've been doing a ton of work. Did you want to mention
anything?
Eonwλ Valar Today at 4:39 PM
Not at the moment.
Sandalf13 Today at 4:39 PM
What kind of entries would you like for this page?
Varda Today at 4:39 PM
Okie dokie. And thank you for the Games Site Mass Update, and
State of Valar Gaming. : )
Eonwλ Valar Today at 4:40 PM
MP :}
Varda Today at 4:41 PM
Anything that would go in our Tolkien Site: articles, art,
stories, poems, humor. Also anything from favorite games having to
do with the theme especially, of training for games including Food
Wars.
[4:41 PM]
Check out the page's contents which are set up for the usual
suspects, and feel free to check out previous anniversaries. That
gives some idea.
[4:42 PM]
Eonwe: deserves much song.
[4:43 PM]
The next section is a quick report on Valar gaming this past week
and news of events upcoming. Then we move into the Tolkien
discussion. If anyone has a time problem, please mention. Arien
doesn't have a lot longer online, as late as it is for her.
Sandalf13 Today at 4:43 PM
Eonwe: How can one put up a quote under their name on Discord?
Eonwλ Valar Today at 4:44 PM
Set your away message, then set it to never expire.
[4:44 PM]
If you're using the browser version, I'm not sure the command.
Sandalf13 Today at 4:44 PM
Where can I find the "Away Message?"
Eonwλ Valar Today at 4:45 PM
If you're using the program, then if you click on your name/icon
in the lower left, that should let you do it.
Sandalf13 Today at 4:45 PM
I shall try to do so after the meeting is over. I don't want to
mess anything up by switching screens!
Varda Today at 4:46 PM
On to
[4:46 PM]
top
Gaming!
[4:46 PM]
Eonwe, would you like to handle the Gaming News?
Eonwλ Valar Today at 4:47 PM
Certainly.
Varda Today at 4:47 PM
passes the well-shined gavel to Fionwe
Eonwλ Valar Today at 4:48 PM
Bangs gavel against shield, creating a shockwave and knocking
over a bunch of uruks.
[4:49 PM]
World of Warcraft:
Varda Today at 4:50 PM
sweeps the uruk-hai away from our tidy meeting area
Eonwλ Valar Today at 4:50 PM
Check out World of Warcraft News and Development Updates. ---
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23734584/world-of-warcraft-news-and-development-updates
Check out this week's hotfixes. --- https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23691036/hotfixes-october-12-2021
World of Warcraft
World of Warcraft News and Development Updates
- WoW
Catch up on all the latest World of Warcraft
news, hotfixes, and more in our update.
World of Warcraft
Hotfixes: October 12, 2021 - WoW
Here you will find a list of hotfixes that address various issues
related to World of Warcraft: Shadowlands, Burning Crusade
Classic, and WoW Classic.
[4:50 PM]
This week's Bonus Event: Pet Battles.
The PvP Brawl: Deep Six beguns today and runs through Tuesday,
October 19th.
[4:51 PM]
Hallow's End begins tomorrow, so there's another shot at the
Headless Horseman's reins if you don'thave it yet after more than
a decade :}
[4:52 PM]
Next week's bonus event should be Mists of Pandaria Timewalking,
and the in-game calendar claimd it would be Arathi Blizzard for
the PvP Brawl. We'll see if that holds up.
Overwatch:
[4:53 PM]
A new blog is out: A Monstrous Mash: Behind the Latest Halloween
Terror Skins. ---
https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/news/23733293/a-monstrous-mash-behind-the-latest-halloween-terror-skins/
Overwatch
A monstrous mash: Behind the latest Halloween Terror skins
Catch up with Overwatch concept artists to discover how they
designed legendary new looks for three heroes.
[4:53 PM]
Hearthstone:
[4:53 PM]
Patch 21.4 is out. --- https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/news/23732808/21-4-patch-notes
21.4 Patch Notes
Hearthstone Mercenaries launches tomorrow, with
Patch 21.4!
[4:53 PM]
I saved the most interesting news for last this time:
[4:54 PM]
Lord of the Rings
Online:
[4:54 PM]
Out this week: Update 30.3. --- https://www.lotro.com/en/content/update-303-release-notes
The Lord of the Rings Online
Update 30.3 Release Notes
[4:54 PM]
If you haven't already looked into the new legendary item system,
there's some talk about it in harbor, but you have to see it
first-hand too.
[4:55 PM]
I could do this all day :}, but I'll now turn it back over to
Varda for the last of LotRO news and onward with the meeting.
Varda Today at 4:55 PM
(The new weapons are really powerful!)
[4:56 PM]
catches the tossed gavel
[4:56 PM]
Lord of the Rings Online aka LotRO gamers seen this past week in
our branches on different servers:
We have been working with the new Legendary Items, quite different
and very strong.
Landroval server:
Eonwe
Fangorn
Gil-galad
Nar
Tulkas
Varda
Anor server:
Eonwe
Fangorn
Varda
Shadowfax server:
Varda
Treebeard server:
Varda
[4:57 PM]
Shadowfax branch now has a Bree kin house.
Treebeard branch is still collecting gold for a Hobbit kin house.
[4:58 PM]
And of course both Landroval and Anor branches are enjoying their
fancy island kin houses.
Any other gaming news, membership news, comments, suggestions,
invite requests, kin chest requests before we go to Tolkien?
[4:59 PM]
Starcraft gamers this past week that I know of:
Fangorn, Eowyn, Faramir (and our grandson).
[5:00 PM]
Minecrafters: Eowyn, (and our grandson), and Gimli
Then there are the batch of gamers currently playing that I see on
the side of our chat. (Hi gang!)
Gives you all a second to type
[5:02 PM]
That's all you get! (ok, you can break in any time as usual)
On to:
top
Tolkien!
[5:02 PM]
Sandalf, are you still with us? : )
Sandalf13 Today at 5:02 PM
Yes I am. A lot of this over my head...I am no gamer.
Varda Today at 5:03 PM
That's fine. We have a lot of gamers who are only interested in
their own. This is a scattergun to cover everyone.
[5:03 PM]
(and Pallando blasting away in space in Eve Online!)
[5:04 PM]
Gorlim has been hospitalized for quite a while but is home. :
) sends tubs of waterlilies to Gorlim
[5:04 PM]
top
Tolkien:
[5:05 PM]
Sandalf, you said you had some topics for us to chew on? Please
toss them when ready!
[5:06 PM]
(Fangorn and Sauron came by and waved at the monitor to you,
gang!)
Eonwλ Valar Today at 5:07 PM
(Heya to Sauron and Fangorn :})
Sandalf13 Today at 5:08 PM
Yes I do. However, I am not sure they all fit in here. As I
mentioned to you, Varda, I am sort of a lone ranger out here. I
have done a LOT of reading of the entire Legendarium, and am, as
noted, working on a book containing essays about the LoTR that
references other works in the Legendarium. I recently came across
a site somewhere that talked about Tolkien fans, and classified
them into Toliken purists, movie lovers, and so on. I am not sure
where I fit, but I think I tend towards a very scholarly view of
the LoTR, and therefore eschew the movies. I enjoyed them, but I
believe Peter Jackson took TOO Many liberties with the
Legendarium, and his interpretations of the same are now the
standard public view of the LoTR. Perhaps I am being blasphemous?
Varda Today at 5:09 PM
Not at all. Our group predates the movies and prefers the books,
although most of us saw the movies and have a great time giving
them a hard time. They were, however, beautiful and had a lot of
the right atmosphere to give them their due.
Eonwλ Valar Today at 5:09 PM
The LotR movies at least. The Hobbit movies.....
Sandalf13 Today at 5:10 PM
I wholeheartedly agree. I enjoyed the movies, but I have read the
LoTR hundreds of times, and feel that some things are best
experienced through reading.
Varda Today at 5:10 PM
Some good scenes in there, despite the /facepalms. The spiders in
the Old Forest were properly eeky.
[5:11 PM]
Totally agree, Sandalf. Fangorn has a shirt that proclaims "The
Books were Better"
Sandalf13 Today at 5:11 PM
I have not even seen the Hobbit. If I thought the original three
LoTR movies took too many liberties with Tolkien, how cold I sit
through The Hobbit movies, that took even more?
[5:11 PM]
I should get one too. any suggestions?
Varda Today at 5:11 PM
They did make a stab at using some of the Appendix info and adding
it.
[5:12 PM]
Any tee-shirt place will happily make special comments for you.
[5:12 PM]
Your book of essays: is that planned as an actual book?
Sandalf13 Today at 5:14 PM
True. But in my FIRST LoTR story, that you graciously allowed to
be published on the Valar Guild site, I mentioned the fact that
Aragorn would have been beardless,
as was stated explicity by Tolkien in one of his letters. I can
cite the actual letter with just a tad bit of research...yet Peter
Jackson gave him a beard...perhaps as a way to emphasize his
mortality as opposed to that of the Eldar? Anyway, that gave me a
negative vibe. Also: Estel was TEN YEARS OLD at the time of the
Battle of the Five Armies. How could Jackson habe Thrnaduil tell
Legolas so seek out the Ranger Aragorn? Estel did not even know he
was Aragorn at the time!
Varda Today at 5:15 PM
True. : )
Sandalf13 Today at 5:15 PM
So. There I am.
Varda Today at 5:16 PM
No argument. "The Books Were So Much Better They Beat Movies With
a Stick" tee shirt.
[5:16 PM]
So, leaving the movies to the side, including the Rankin-Bass
movies,
[5:16 PM]
did you have any specific items that you wanted to discuss?
Eonwλ Valar Today at 5:16 PM
Except that Cirdan the Shipwright did have a beard.
Varda Today at 5:17 PM
The third something of life allowed beards, but the other elves
weren't of such age.
[5:17 PM]
I think they were trying to make Strider look properly scruffy. Ah
well.
Sandalf13 Today at 5:18 PM
As to my "book:" that is where I am seeking some help from
you folks. The four chapters that I have completed take up 1.23 MB
so far. I would love to have them reviewed by experts such as
yourselves. I had envisioned a book someday, but perhaps it would
be better to simply submit them for online publishing. Is the
Valar Guild the best site to publish such works? Would a scholarly
Tolkien website, such as Wikipedia's Tolkien pages, be a more
suitable place? I would love someone to take a look at where I am
so far, to give me some ideas.
Varda Today at 5:19 PM
There are actual hardback books published concerning Tolkien's
legendarium, so there's a faint possibility of being published
that way.
[5:20 PM]
If you publish online, it hurts the chances for a print copy.
Sandalf13 Today at 5:20 PM
As regards Cirdan...he does indeed appear to be a rare exception.
Note also that Legolas immediately saw that Imrahil had Elvish
antecedents based upon his appearance. Since Imrahil was clearly
mortal, I wonder how Legolas saw the relationship so quickly, if
not by Imrahil's beardlessness, for example. And if that applies
to Imrahil, how much more so does it apply to Aragorn, who is a
descendant of Luthien and Beren?
Varda Today at 5:20 PM
But if you would like to toss some thoughts past us, sure.
[5:21 PM]
A bit of Maia in Aragorn too, and in Elrond and his three kids.
[5:21 PM]
Cirdan was supposedly of the extreme age that allowed beards.
Eonwλ Valar Today at 5:22 PM
Other elvish facial features are likely. They don't have to be so
blatant as they would be to us puny mortals, hehe.
Varda Today at 5:22 PM
The lack of any beard stubble (also should have been true of
Aragorn), rather like a number of Orientals, could have been one
clue.
Sandalf13 Today at 5:22 PM
You are spot on. Yes: Luthien was the daughter of Melian the Maia,
after all. I remember that in the Houses of Healing, Pippin
remarked to Merry that Aragorn reminded him of Gandalf...and
Pippin thought that they must be related. Well, they certainly
were, in a sense!
Varda Today at 5:22 PM
A tiny bit of sharpness at the top of the ear, perhaps. A glint of
the eye showing the fea, perhaps.
Sandalf13 Today at 5:22 PM
Estel?
Varda Today at 5:22 PM
True : ) [Note: this was cross-talk. Was trying
to think of any signs that might betray elven ancestry, actual or
not. Estel probably did not have these but had longevity.]
Ar-Pharazon-V Today at 5:23 PM
Aiya, catching up
Varda Today at 5:23 PM
Aiya Phar : )
[5:23 PM]
Aragorn has soooo many names. : ) Estel as a child.
Arien Valar Today at 5:23 PM
Its quitr ineresting to read about time and aging in NoME , the
lateslt middelearth book to come out althogh i have to admit my
head for numbers is not great at the best of times
Eonwλ Valar Today at 5:23 PM
Heya Phar.
Sandalf13 Today at 5:23 PM
The list goes on and on,,,,
Varda Today at 5:24 PM
Arien, luckily you can just dig it out of the book. : )
Sandalf13 Today at 5:25 PM
Another element of the Movies that bothers me is that Jackson
completely failed to capture the relationship between Estel
(Aragorn) and Elrond. Elrond was his foster-father, and "loved him
as a son of his own," (Toklien). I find it extremely UNLIKELY that
Elrond would have said the things that he did about Aragorn in the
movie.
Eonwλ Valar Today at 5:25 PM
It is interesting to read, aye Arien, and aye, as we discussed a
few weeks ago, some of those numbers would've spelled the doom of
the Quendi as a race, hehehe.
Varda Today at 5:27 PM
The notes from JRRT span so much time. He kept messing with his
own work, even when it contradicted the published work that we
really have to take as canon (LotR).
[5:28 PM]
Sometimes he painted himself into quite a corner. His dodges
produced some intriguing stuff, however, such as Glorfindel 1 and
2.
Sandalf13 Today at 5:28 PM
That is true...but the inset tale of Arwen and Aragorn in the
Appendicies should have been even longer!
Varda Today at 5:28 PM
We are never satisfied, aye!
[5:29 PM]
JRRT said he agreed with the most frequent reader complaint: the
books weren't long enough.
Sandalf13 Today at 5:30 PM
Northrup Frye is the father of the Archetype analysis of
literature. In my interpretation, Aragorn is on a level above that
of most other mortals, and is on par with the Elves themselves.
I discuss that in my chapter on both Denethor
and Character Development.
[5:31 PM]
In my world: Poor Denethor. He was screwed by Peter Jackson.
I think him to be a much more sympathetic character than Jackson
made him out to be...indeed, a true Macbeth-like figure.
Varda Today at 5:31 PM
On par with Elves. I'd like to read that. Earendil might be one to
look at along with that.
[5:31 PM]
For character assassination, hard to beat Faramir's.
Sandalf13 Today at 5:32 PM
Correct. From my reading, it is clear that Tolkien did NOT have
any idea what to do with Aragorn once he was introduced in
Bree...he sort of developed him as he went along, and this is
mirrored in Aragorn's growth in stature throughout the LoTR.
Arien Valar Today at 5:33 PM
as a ten year old boy Estel wouldnt be much different from an
elven child
Sandalf13 Today at 5:34 PM
Absolutely....and most fan-fiction to date seems to recognize that
fact. I was inspired by Aunt Dora Baggins to write my own first
fictional story about Estel published on this site.
Varda Today at 5:34 PM
True. A number of the characters developed as they went. Trottir
was an early version of Strider, a Hobbit.
Ar-Pharazon-V Today at 5:34 PM
Caught up, and aiya Sandalf
Sandalf13 Today at 5:35 PM
That is right. I am sort of glad that Tolkien eventually traded in
Trotter for Aragorn...note, however, that "Trotter" is pretty darn
close to "Strider."
Varda Today at 5:35 PM
Estel was only one of a long line of Elrond's fostering of the
sons of Ranger Chieftains who would also be Chieftains. Keep the
line of Kings educated.
Sandalf13 Today at 5:35 PM
Aiya, Ar-Pharazon!
Varda Today at 5:35 PM
Grats, Phar : )
Ar-Pharazon-V Today at 5:35 PM
grats on catching up?
Varda Today at 5:36 PM
I like the full-blown version of Aragorn that he ended up being.
[5:36 PM]
Yes! We type tons just to keep you working at reading.
Ar-Pharazon-V Today at 5:36 PM
And yes, I imagine Trotter was changed to Strider because it
didn't fit a human
Eonwλ Valar Today at 5:36 PM
What, you all don't go trotting places? ;}
Sandalf13 Today at 5:36 PM
Yes...but only Estel was raised by Elrond as a "son," having taken
up residence there when he was two years old. The other chieftains
probably arrived as late teenagers or early 20 year olds, by
Dunedain standards.
Varda Today at 5:37 PM
Likely. Gilraen's being a resident was probably also unusual.
Sandalf13 Today at 5:37 PM
I agree.
[5:38 PM]
But by then the Wise were ALL aware that Sauron was searching for
the Heir of Isildur. I often wonder how that worked out as regards
Saruman...now there is a downfallen
character!
Ar-Pharazon-V Today at 5:38 PM
Stepping back in the conversation a bit, I imagine Elrond's
treatment of Aragorn in the movies was mostly to change Aragorn
himself. Giving him some doubt and insecurity.
Varda Today at 5:39 PM
Saruman, made by Sauron to lose hope.
[5:39 PM]
Note "hope". A common and important theme.
Estel/Hope for just one.
[5:40 PM]
Aye, Phar. It's hard to ignore a major character like Aragorn who
would be the usual hero in such a piece. That he's not is
tellinig.
Sandalf13 Today at 5:40 PM
Wenn alle die Hoffe verloren ist, muss man hofft, dass alle die
Hoffe nicht verloren ist. (When all hope is lost, one must hope
that not all hope is lost).
Varda Today at 5:40 PM
hehe
Aye
A star may shine through the darkness even in Mordor.
Sandalf13 Today at 5:41 PM
How beautiful.
Varda Today at 5:41 PM
Paraphrasing Tolkien
Sandalf13 Today at 5:42 PM
I think that when Sam realized this, his character was elevated to
the rank of being sublime.
Ar-Pharazon-V Today at 5:42 PM
You can just imagine the angelic music at that moment.
Varda Today at 5:42 PM
Frodo was moving from hobbit to something beyond. So yes, we did
see people growing.
[5:43 PM]
Valaric music? : )
Ar-Pharazon-V Today at 5:43 PM
good enough
Varda Today at 5:44 PM
Merry and Pippin even grew physically. It kind of pointed out all
the other growth going on.
Sandalf13 Today at 5:44 PM
A related point: I truly believe that Tolkien did NOT intend for
the fate of mortals and the Eldar to be forever separated. In the
Silmarillion, Tolkien notes (and I believe he is giving us
his own thoughts on the matter) that at the final singing, when
the song is sung aright, ALL the children of Iluvatar will be
singing together.
Varda Today at 5:45 PM
Ahhh, we go into the new Arda, Arda Unmarred. : )
Ar-Pharazon-V Today at 5:45 PM
So basically everyone would be joining Illuvatar eventually, the
elves were just stuck for a while.
Varda Today at 5:45 PM
The old Arda passes away, all learn the minds of the others so
they may sing aright (part of what they're learning in this Arda),
and the new is Sung into being.
Sandalf13 Today at 5:46 PM
Truly and well-sppken!
Varda Today at 5:46 PM
Aye, Phar. There was also a bit about how Man handled their
relationships with the Elves deciding the fate of the Elves.
Sandalf13 Today at 5:46 PM
And as a geologist, I can say with certainty that our Arda will
pass away one day too...
Ar-Pharazon-V Today at 5:47 PM
As one who has also studied Earth Sciences, I'll say it'll
probably take a few billion years yet
Varda Today at 5:48 PM
The idea of the Heavens and Earth passing away for the new is also
one that JRRT would have heard from his faith. Multiple directions
for him to pick it up.
Sandalf13 Today at 5:48 PM
I think you are right...I always told my students that we are on
the cusp of Earth's absolute middle age...most authorities I have
read suggest the Sun will go on for another 4.5 Ga before it dies
out.
Varda Today at 5:49 PM
The Earth should still be around by the time Andromeda reaches the
Milky Way, just perhaps a bit charred, heh.
Sandalf13 Today at 5:49 PM
Sounds right.
Ar-Pharazon-V Today at 5:49 PM
While true, I do believe the first few billion years were kinda
boring, when it comes to life anyway. I'd say we're nowhere near
the middle point of life's development yet.
Eonwλ Valar Today at 5:50 PM
inbefore we start an Andromedan branch of the Valar Guild :}
Varda Today at 5:51 PM
hah!
Arien Valar Today at 5:52 PM
Namarie
Varda Today at 5:52 PM
May you enjoy walking the caves in the Night.
Eonwλ Valar Today at 5:52 PM
You can RP here too. Just stand on this chair with this
flashlight.... :}
Varda Today at 5:52 PM
hehehe
[5:52 PM]
We need to remember our Forum story too. : )
Ar-Pharazon-V Today at 5:53 PM
That's actually an interesting point. As the only species we're
aware of that has ever found ways to put our knowledge into media
that can outlive us...
Varda Today at 5:53 PM
Sandalf, how are you on time? Are you about to be tossed out of a
library?
[5:53 PM]
Fossils! (not on purpose)
Sandalf13 Today at 5:53 PM
I have about one half an hour left...
Ar-Pharazon-V Today at 5:53 PM
I wonder whether our cultural legacies will survive us as a
species, and how that will affect further development in the
millions of years to come.
[5:54 PM]
Well, yes, but as far as we know, we're the only ones to actually
make use of fossils for knowledge...
Varda Today at 5:54 PM
At least JRRT's should last as long as there is story-telling.
Sandalf13 Today at 5:54 PM
You got that right!
Varda Today at 5:54 PM
gavel runs wildly past the hammerpad, again
now you know why we're running late
Ar-Pharazon-V Today at 5:54 PM
Well, Homer's work's been around for a few thousand years at
least.
Tolkien might as well.
Varda Today at 5:54 PM
hammerpad trips the gavel
thonk!
[5:55 PM]
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After-meeting!
[5:55 PM]
Free chat.
Continuation of Tolkien is one of those freedoms, but helps
release folks where the sun is coming up.
Arien's in Scotland, Phar's in the Netherlands for instance.
Ar-Pharazon-V Today at 5:56 PM
Yep, for me it's actually an hour later than for Arien. I'm just a
night owl.
Sandalf13 Today at 5:56 PM
And the Sun is beginning to set here on the Great Plains of North
America!
Ar-Pharazon-V Today at 5:56 PM
I'm a member of the midnight crew ♪
Varda Today at 5:57 PM
Somewhat overcast here by the Gulf Coast. Could count as getting
dark?
Phar, you really are. : )
[5:58 PM]
Since you only have half an hour, did you have something else that
needed tossed our way right quick?
Sandalf13 Today at 5:58 PM
I do have a final request. Would all of you give some thought to
my posting some of my chapters through Valar Guild, not for
publication, but for review by you? How would that work? As an
editor of numerous geologic publication, and the author of many
papers, I am aware of the exigencies of first-in-time publishing.
I have had some bad experiences previously with people reading my
work, and then writing it up and claiming it as their own. Highly
unethical, but some people have done that.
Ar-Pharazon-V Today at 5:59 PM
hides copying machine
Varda Today at 5:59 PM
ugh!
If you post anything on the internet, some slug in need of salting
may try to grab it.
[6:00 PM]
This is why we're asking for specific questions.
Sandalf13 Today at 6:00 PM
We do not have to make a decision tonight, but I would welcome
your insights. I hope that we will be meeting next Sunday?
Varda Today at 6:00 PM
Every Sunday for 24 years so far. : )
So the chance is good
Sandalf13 Today at 6:01 PM
Wow. You guys all have my deepest respect and gratitude for
publishing my story.
Varda Today at 6:01 PM
We are delighted to have it!
Sandalf13 Today at 6:01 PM
Of course, 24 years is nothing, to a geologist! he he
Ar-Pharazon-V Today at 6:01 PM
Of course I remember times it was just me or just me and Arien.,..
Varda Today at 6:01 PM
I hope to improve the coding on it later, with Eonwe's help since
he's the top coder around here. : )
[6:02 PM]
I remember when it was just me for nearly the whole meeting, but
that's rare.
Someone has always kept it going!
Ar-Pharazon-V Today at 6:02 PM
Last week, was it? :)
Varda Today at 6:02 PM
Yes.
[6:03 PM]
So many excellent excuses though! Moving, working, on vacation
with no internet, etc. ; )
Sandalf13 Today at 6:03 PM
So: I am not retired yet, and have a boatload of work ahead of me
this week, but I shall look forward very much to talking with all
of you next week!
Varda Today at 6:03 PM
We try to warn each other.
Ar-Pharazon-V Today at 6:03 PM
For me it's a health thing that I'm late. I'd rather not go into
detail, but it's not lethal anyway.
Varda Today at 6:03 PM
Good that it's not lethal! hands over the spare athelas
Sandalf13 Today at 6:03 PM
Yes!
[6:04 PM]
Take two leaves and call me in the morning.
Varda Today at 6:04 PM
Good to hear you're not retired!
hehe
We also chat during the week or leave messages that someone gets
around to answering.
[6:05 PM]
Harbor is great for that. : )
Sandalf13 Today at 6:05 PM
Is this the best place to leave messages? How does that work?
Varda Today at 6:05 PM
So some odd thought someone has between work and sleep may be
dropped in the channel.
Harbor is.
Click on the harbor channel and type. : )
We will see it later.
Eonwλ Valar Today at 6:05 PM
I must be off. I have many things to take care of tonight.
Varda Today at 6:05 PM
It's not a private message.
Ar-Pharazon-V Today at 6:05 PM
Namarie!
Eonwλ Valar Today at 6:05 PM
Take care all, good night, sleep well, and have fun.
Varda Today at 6:05 PM
Namarie, Eonwe!
[6:06 PM]
I need to go make supper. : )
Sandalf13 Today at 6:06 PM
So if wanted to write you you, Varda, or Eonwe, I would
click on your name in my friends list?
Varda Today at 6:06 PM
Yes.
If to the group, type in Harbor.
Sandalf13 Today at 6:06 PM
Thanks! Namarie! and sei gesund to all!
Varda Today at 6:06 PM
A lot of folks can't make it to the meeting times but help in
between
Ar-Pharazon-V Today at 6:06 PM
For people you've already private messaged, there'll be a list
when you click the discord icon in the very top left.
Sandalf13 Today at 6:07 PM
Who is "the group?" The people in our chat this evening, or other
folks that I have not yet met?
Varda Today at 6:07 PM
The Valar Guild.
The ones in this chat and a lot of others.
Sandalf13 Today at 6:07 PM
OK. Thank you all for your patience with me!
Varda Today at 6:07 PM
Thank you for the fun!
Sandalf13 Today at 6:08 PM
Tschuίi!
Ar-Pharazon-V Today at 6:08 PM
namarie
Varda Today at 6:08 PM
We have a lot of helpful people, some fine scholars or
knowledgeable in interesting areas.
Namarie!
[6:10 PM]
I hope to be back later. Still need to make more gold for the
Treebeard kin house. : )
flies into the evening sky
Ar-Pharazon-V Today at 6:16 PM
Oh, for gaming news, let's just say that that Hearthstone update
comes with the new mode, Mercenaries, which I mentioned last
week I'll give more details in the personal report.
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Ar-Pharazon-V Today at 7:44 PM
Personal gaming report!
[7:45 PM]
3 old badges once again for (non)flashgaming
[7:51 PM]
https://www.kongregate.com/games/nutcasenightmare/we-become-what-we-behold
is the first game! A rather cynical game where you broadcast
events happening on the square and see how it escalates opinions.
Kongregate
We Become What We Behold
WE BECOME WHAT WE BEHOLD
a game about news cycles, vicious cycles,
infinite cycles
Wow, has it really been eight years since I
made :the game:? And I rea...
[7:55 PM]
Still fun to catch all the things :)
https://www.kongregate.com/games/e_cha/50-years-graphical
is the second game, where you play a civilization for 50 years.
Choose to create units, including various soldiers and peasants,
and make the right choices to survive long enough while having
enough resources for the next year.
Kongregate
50 years (graphical)
50 years is a coffebreak turn-based strategy.
I started to make this game after have played in Civilization and
other quotbigquot turn-based strategies a lot. They...
[7:57 PM]
You can choose several different civilizations with different
perks, too.
[7:59 PM]
and finally https://www.kongregate.com/games/synapticon/spellstone
for the last game, one I've been playing for years several times a
day already, but which was a badge this week
Kongregate
Spellstone
Spellstone is a fantasy card game with
beautiful hand-drawn art and rich lore! Collect hundreds of
striking cards to battle through a compelling story to unrav...
[8:00 PM]
ccg in a fantasy world, somewhat Hearthstone inspired, where you
make your way across the continent of Arcantia, completing the
story, collecting gold, buying packs, getting standard and reward
cards and, from the monthly events, champion cards...
[8:01 PM]
And try to beat up other people if you're strong enough
[8:05 PM]
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Blizzard gaming:
[8:08 PM]
Hearthstone:
Level 98 on the reward track. Reward portrait is in sight
[8:09 PM]
Have not yet decided which one I'll pick. None of my heroes are
default anymore anyway, so maybe it doesn't matter.
[8:10 PM]
Brawl is Valeera's Bag of Burgled Spells. Both players play
Valeera, the rogue, with random spells from all classes in your
deck. Each spell will summon a random minion of equal mana cost.
You can imagine a lot of randomness, but I did pretty well
[8:12 PM]
Mercenary mode is here! I delved straight in, collecting 15
mercenaries already, completing several story quests and mercenary
tasks for rewards and giving them equipment, while leveling them
up. One of them even hit level 13 (out of 30) already.
[8:12 PM]
I make sure to use whichever merc's task is up that day, while
also completing the general daily quest which, so far, has been to
complete two bounties.
[8:12 PM]
It gives me a lot of upgrade coins and xp where it's needed.
[8:13 PM]
But since that usually means I have to go in with mercs who are
still low level, I can't actually progress through the bounties
much and keep playing the first 2 over and over, which means not
much story progress.
[8:13 PM]
But we'll get there eventually.
[8:14 PM]
Bounties and quests give a ton of coins and the occasional pack,
but most of the packs have to be bought through gold, which is
shared with the rest of Hearthstone. So priorities need to be set.
[8:15 PM]
I think I'll stay with the minisets and hero portraits as spending
priority, which means I'm not getting any new mercenaries for a
while. You can also eventually use their coins to craft them,
which means you ultimately only need packs for alternate
portraits, but it's more efficient to get the actual mercenaries
that way as well... once I can spare the money
[8:16 PM]
Role-wise, I've got 3 protectors, 8 fighters and 4 casters...
swinging a bit heavily towards fighters, including getting a
legendary one, Sylvanas, from the starting packs. But I'm sure the
other roles will fill up as well.
[8:19 PM]
And just for completion's sake, my mercs gotten so far are
Tyrande, Cariel Roame, Xyrella, Grom Hellscream, Millhouse
Manastorm, Rokara, Bru'kan, Morgl, Sylvanas, Scabbs, and
Rathorian. Those who are not familiar from WoW, generally feature
in Hearthstone storylines, for those interested, including the
Book of Mercenaries.
[8:20 PM]
Oh, I can't count Also Cornelius Roame, Anacondra, Murk-Eye
and Tavish
[8:20 PM]
WoW:
Bit more raiding, getting better at the ones we've already killed.
Did get my gear up to ilevel 235, which was my set threshold to
continue farming the worldboss in Nazjatar for my final transmog
piece there. Which I got on the first try, too!
[8:22 PM]
Weekly is pet battles, which I've been doing from the garrison
again. Nothing new to report there.
[8:24 PM]
In Torghast, starting to get into the more expensive perks to buy
in the Box of Many Things. Got the third Blessing from that,
giving me an achievement as well. Now have the final tier unlocked
as well, which means I can start saving for that constant aoe when
Empowered, which looks really good.
[8:25 PM]
Got my renown to 72, unlocking the last adventurer for the command
table. But since it'll be a while before I get the last mass
leveling item, and I want to be able to use it to the fullest, I
haven't acquired him yet so I won't level him by mistake
[8:26 PM]
Two new mounts!
[8:26 PM]
We've got Sarge's Tale, the white rat mount reward from doing a
bounty in Hearthstone Mercenaries, as a crossover promotion. You
don't need to get too far into mercs to get it, so might be worth
a try for any interested (edited)
[8:27 PM]
And a mount for anima, the Umbral Scythehorn! Another gorm mount,
and I do love my gorm mounts. Next up I'll have to save 25k for an
appearance set, so that'll be a while.
[8:31 PM]
And I think I did my last few callings for now. I've gotten all
the paragon rewards, and all the other stuff - gold, anima,
conservatory flowers - can be gotten elsewhere. Time I let it go
and make more time for stuff, possibly finally progressing again
with alts and then Korthia.
[8:31 PM]
We'll see if I manage to use the free time productively
[8:36 PM]
And that's my report for the week!
Varda Today at 8:37 PM
Thank you, Phar. : )
Ar-Pharazon-V Today at 8:57 PM
namarie!
Varda Today at 9:06 PM
Namarie!
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