Valar Guild

August 23, 2015 Sunday Meeting

5pm EDT (UTC/GMT - 5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by
Ar-Pharazon and Varda.

Attending: (4)
    AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Indis-(V)/karakedi25, Varda Valar (presiding)

Meeting begins
    Arien  (also in Before-meeting)
    Tolkien Site: New art by the Bohemian Weasel-(T)
    Discussion topic:  Romances in Middle-earth
    LotR Project link
    Gaming news from Ar-Pharazon

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
AriehnV: aiya Phari @:D
AriehnV: I am really sorry for my absence in the last four weeks but i landed in hhospital after the larp weekend :-\
ArPharazonV: Aaack. Dangerous hobby, then.
ArPharazonV: You okay now?
AriehnV: *gg* the larp wasnt dangerous .. brambles were and a virus was ^^
ArPharazonV: Aha!
AriehnV: yeah sort of .. its not fully okay but i dont need antibiotics anymore
AriehnV: and no fever and stuff
ArPharazonV: Tick? Lyme? Or something else?
AriehnV: so I am at home again :_)
ArPharazonV: Great :-)
AriehnV: Streptococus A 160
ArPharazonV: Oh, that sounds dangerous.
AriehnV: something like that ^^#
AriehnV: can be dangerous i was told .. so i was lucky
ArPharazonV: Lucky and unlucky.
AriehnV: indeed
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Phar and welcome back Arien!
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
AriehnV: Aiya Varda :-D
AriehnV: did you get bruces message about me on facebook?
VardaValar1: No. I'll try to dig it out
VardaValar1: I see a message from you. Hospital huh? oy
AriehnV: yeah unfortunately
AriehnV: but .. anyway I am back :_
AriehnV: :_)
VardaValar1: Glad to have you back!
VardaValar1: Heh, there's a picture of a rack of air guitars for sale. It's just a rack.
VardaValar1: Facebook is a hazardous place. I only go there now and then.
AriehnV: indeed lol he had no other way to contact you anyway and i had no internet at all
VardaValar1: Invitations sent
VardaValar1: I only see it as if you sent it. FB challenged here. Will look again
VardaValar1: So glad he tried!
VardaValar1: Bilbo sent this link, supposed to be from Harper Collins, new book:
VardaValar1: by JRRT The Story of Kullervo
VardaValar1: ahh, finally found the message. Now I will be checking those doohickeys on top
ArPharazonV: The man keeps publishing, even after death.
VardaValar1: People keep digging up his notes and early work.
VardaValar1: Hey, we'll read it. :-)
ArPharazonV: *looks at complete history of middle earth* yes, we will
VardaValar1: heh
VardaValar1: We read notes he put on the backs of envelopes and table napkins, so yes.
VardaValar1: Ok, maybe the others invited will be able to pop in later. Some are at work with AIM still up.

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: (Looky, Phar! I remembered it this time!)

VardaValar1: Membership:
VardaValar1: We are very glad to see Arien out of the hospital and able to sit up to the computer with us!
AriehnV: :-D

VardaValar1: Web:
VardaValar1: Tolkien Site has new art
VardaValar1: There was so much that I made an attempt to pick by theme and character.
VardaValar1: This is from the Bohemian Weasel-(T), who is very sweet about emailing kind notes.
VardaValar1: I went with relationships and with certain characters that had a pile of pictures.
VardaValar1: For Arwen, whose page is at:
VardaValar1: We have four new ones:
VardaValar1: The first three are movie rather than book:
VardaValar1: "Take her to the Grey Havens"
VardaValar1: "Arwen's Choice"
VardaValar1: "Foresight"
VardaValar1: Since Arwen and Aragorn certainly weren't considering leaving or breaking up, the movie seemed to feel a need for Arwen to show her dramatic choice duriing instead of before the Hobbits' adventure.
VardaValar1: and
VardaValar1: "A long-awaited reunion"
VardaValar1: We have two new ones for Eowyn on her page at:
karakedi25 has entered the room.
karakedi25: aiya
VardaValar1: "The men have found their Captain"
VardaValar1: Indis, aiya!
VardaValar1: "Courage, Merry"
VardaValar1: Good to see you!
AriehnV: aiya Indis!
VardaValar1: For Faramir on his page:
VardaValar1: "My son!" Denethor laments the loss of his first son, and the failings of the second. Boromir and Faramir
VardaValar1: "In his stead" ‘Since you are robbed of Boromir, I will do what I can in his stead.’
VardaValar1: "Already burning" ‘The house of his spirit crumbles.. He is burning. Already burning!’
VardaValar1: And a happier note:
VardaValar1: "Under shadow" ‘You and I have both passed under the wings of the Shadow..’ Faramir and Éowyn at the Houses of Healing.
VardaValar1: On Gandalf's page:
VardaValar1: "‘As poison is drawn from a wound.’"
VardaValar1: Theoden has a brand new page at:
VardaValar1: "The sickness of Théoden" "You have no power here, Gandalf the Grey!"
VardaValar1: "‘Your fingers would remember their old strength better if they grasped your sword..’"
VardaValar1: "‘Hail the victorious dead!’"
VardaValar1: "The mustering of Rohan" ‘Summon every able-bodied man to Dunharrow’
VardaValar1: And that's the last of it for today.
AriehnV: Thats a lot as it is! But very nice works
VardaValar1: A lot of them were drawn for Topps cards. Be fun to get a set of those. :-)
VardaValar1: They don't want full oil paintings but something more easily reproducible.
AriehnV: oh nice .. so these are for Tabletop games?
VardaValar1: I'm not sure.
VardaValar1: They seem to be straight trading cards, same as for baseball.
VardaValar1: Collectors' items
ArPharazonV: Basically, for people who like collecting stuff.
ArPharazonV: Yes.
VardaValar1: Looks as if they're really big on sports.
VardaValar1: I may dig through it later some more. Now is not the best time.

VardaValar1: Games Site
VardaValar1: Eonwe updated the news ther, so we'll get into that shortly.

VardaValar1: Gaming:
VardaValar1: LotRO:
VardaValar1: The transfers from other server worlds started up but ran afoul of coding problems. That's being worked out right now, but we've seen a lot of new people showing up anyway.
ArPharazonV: Oh, Aiya Indis :-)
karakedi25: People are making alts on Landroval to scope it out and ask questons in world chat
VardaValar1: True. We see a lot of very low level people asking questions. Of course the trolls came out in force, but we still have our mostly kindly lot answering.
VardaValar1: A number of kins have expressed interest about coming to our server en masse when the time comes.
VardaValar1: More people to game with, yay!
VardaValar1: Dis has been moving a mass of her characters into our kinship and joining into group play. Fun is being had.

VardaValar1: Wolrd of WarCraft:
VardaValar1: If all goes well with testing, flying will come to Draenor September 1st with patch 6.2.2.
VardaValar1: Check out the latest hotfixes.

VardaValar1: Diablo 3:
ArPharazonV: I hope that doesn't mean they're removing the mount as a reward. I won't have the achievement before that time.
VardaValar1: ouch
VardaValar1: Blizzard's new D3 blog asks: Are you prepared for 2.3.0?.
AriehnV: does that mean they will?#
VardaValar1: Read about the cross-game benefits of playing Diablo 3 and Heroes of the Storm cross-game benefits of playing Diablo 3 and Heroes of the Storm. (Hint: free Diablo in Heroes of the Storm for a limited time, and portrait frame and penant in Diablo 3.)
VardaValar1: I don't know.

VardaValar1: StarCraft 2:
VardaValar1: There's a new Legacy of the Void Balance Update Preview and Beta Patch 2.5.5.
VardaValar1: Also, a new feature coming to the beta: Automated Tournaments.

VardaValar1: Hearthstone:
VardaValar1: The Grand Tournament arrives August 24th! See the 3.0 patch notes.
ArPharazonV: This week's Tavern Brawl gives a peek into the new cards from that expansion.
ArPharazonV: Also, D3 season 4 starts next weekend.
VardaValar1: Thanks!

VardaValar1: Heroes of the Storm:
VardaValar1: New Patch this week. There's alot, so read them! Some highlights include free Diablo if you own the game Diablo 3, upcoming reward for getting to 70 in Diablo 3's Season 4, new Heroes of the Storm rewards for different goals, and a new treasure goblin event going on.
VardaValar1: And that's all the Games Site news. Anyone have more general news or want to wait for After-meeting?
ArPharazonV: Storm patch came with a quest to kill 50 treasure goblins during the event.
ArPharazonV: Given that you only get one goblin at most per match, it takes a bit of grinding, so might want to get started if you want it.
ArPharazonV: That would be the new treasure goblin event, yes :-)
ArPharazonV: personal gaming report will be for aftermeeting
VardaValar1: Ok

VardaValar1: Tolkien:
VardaValar1: If any of you would like to bring up a subject or Moment, please feel free.
VardaValar1: Otherwise, what did JRRT seem to think about romance from the books of Middle-earth?
VardaValar1: Say, LotR to narrow it down. Any romances there?
ArPharazonV: Quite romanticized, really. The way two people meet who are about to start a romance is always described as a special circumstance.
ArPharazonV: The way Sam and Rose grew up together is probably the most normal way any of his couples meet :-)
VardaValar1: Most of them live in chaotic times. The Shire was one of the few peaceful places.
ArPharazonV: That is true.
VardaValar1: Merry and Pippin met hobbit lasses and married them, but mostly off-screen.
VardaValar1: Frodo never seems to have found anyone or, like Finrod, felt his fate wouldn't allow it.
VardaValar1: What are a few of the romantic couples?
VardaValar1: Pardon, who are a few of the romantic couples?
VardaValar1: or even those already married?
VardaValar1: Elrond and Celebrian - married, she had moved to Valinor, but the traces of their marriage still affected the storyline.
ArPharazonV: Celeborn and Galadriel, married, still together. Seemingly acting as one, politically.
VardaValar1: Aye, working together well. He was like a warrior chief to her almost-shaman.
VardaValar1: Very broadly speaking.
ArPharazonV: I wonder if he at all minded that he was married to a Ringbearer and general big shot in Middle-earth.
ArPharazonV: Ringwearer?
ArPharazonV: *looks up*
VardaValar1: He probably didn't consider himself small potatoes, and she kept building him up at the audiences we saw.
ArPharazonV: -bearer it is
VardaValar1: He didn't seem to be unhappy until she left to go to Valinor. He seemed to want to stay in Middle-earth and did for a long time.
AriehnV: sAM and Rosie .. there is definitely romance there
AriehnV: also Aragorn and Arwen of course ... and Faramir and Eowyn
ArPharazonV: Faramir and Eowyn's meeting was probably slightly less romantic.
VardaValar1: Met at the Houses of Healing, convalescing
karakedi25: Tolkien prettiy regularly paired off his good guys, perhaps a reflection of his own marriage
VardaValar1: True
VardaValar1: His wife danced in the woods. So too did Luthien and Arwen
VardaValar1: And that's interesting, that the bad guys may have been too full of themselves to have a real romance?
VardaValar1: Maybe one of the lines of difference he tried to show?
karakedi25: A lot were orcs, about whose mating we know little
ArPharazonV: Bad guys must've reproduced somehow. They're just never the focus.
karakedi25: reproduction probably didn't involve much romance
ArPharazonV: Have we ever seen a female orc? Troll? Balrog? Dragon/
VardaValar1: That could be it, We just won't ever hear about Thuringwethil's big romance if she had one.
VardaValar1: Phar, we may have and not been able to tell.
ArPharazonV: The only female "villains" we know of have been pretty unique in their setting, like Thuringwethil and Ungoliant.
VardaValar1: We don know the orcs reproduced in the manner of Arda, not as pod people.
VardaValar1: Ungoliant seems to have gone through a lot of spider males and left behind her brood. The males apparently didn't survive, at a guess.
AriehnV: Shelob as well and we know that she paired with some unlucky males that she ate after or so is hinted in the hobbit
VardaValar1: *do
VardaValar1: Aye
AriehnV: those spiders that the travellers party deal with
ArPharazonV: That is true.
AriehnV: of orcs is said that they *multiplied as the Elves*
karakedi25: again, probably little romance in the picture
karakedi25: More likely biological drives
VardaValar1: So we may just not hear about the villains' romances. Saruman's girlfriends if he had time to bother with any. They seemed pretty career focused.
VardaValar1: Aye
karakedi25: none of the Istari are known to have paired
VardaValar1: Aye. Maybe they had pairings back in Valinor. Or were chosen for being singles.
ArPharazonV: "known" being the keyword there. Who knows what those blue wizards were up to?
AriehnV: well magic had to get fo the baddies somehow .... only through Morgoth and sauron or the Istari who might have *defected* from the Valar?
VardaValar1: Gimli seemed to have been so taken with Galadriel, almost like a goddess, that he didn't seem to have other romantic interests.
ArPharazonV: That's probably not unusual for dwarves. Most of them didn't marry anyway.
VardaValar1: The baddies did pick up their magic from the Ainur that were with them. One wonders if they had some latent elf magic in the turned orcs.
VardaValar1: Legolas was probably expected to marry a daughter of Amroth and Nimrodel, but that didn't happen. He'll probably have to wait for Valinor.
VardaValar1: Amroth and Nimrodel were broken up while fleeing, not very helpful in bringing a princess of the Sindar into Middle-earth.
VardaValar1: Boromir didn't seem to have anyone he was missing. Might have planned to wait until he wasn't fighting so much?
ArPharazonV: Probably more focused on his military career, yes.
VardaValar1: The few romances that we do see, do they have anything in common? Any differences?
VardaValar1: Except for Sam's, what we see are mostly royal, as most of the main characters were royal, as those were the ones able to affect events.
VardaValar1: Denethor seems to have loved his wife, but she needed more warmth, both in the physical environment and from him, who seemed to have had difficulty giving it.
VardaValar1: So she died early.
ArPharazonV: Some marriages seem to have been arranged out of nobility and alliance, but nobody appeared particularly displeased with their consort.
VardaValar1: The Feanorians didn't seem to marry. More of the good vs bad guy ability to marry?
ArPharazonV: Or more of the military focus like Boromir. Perhaps they felt that, with their oaths, it wouldn't work to divide their attention.
ArPharazonV: Anyway, at least one of them had a son.
VardaValar1: Celebrimbor
karakedi25: afk a min
AriehnV: Feanor had seven sons and his father was married twice after Feanors mother died early
AriehnV: she was called was it .. Miriel of the Vanyar?
VardaValar1: First wife was Miriel
AriehnV: yes right thats what i meant
AriehnV: the second one was Idril want it?
VardaValar1: Feanor's wife was Miriel [note: Finwe's]
AriehnV: ah yes
AriehnV: his mother .. what was she caled?
AriehnV: called
VardaValar1: His dad had the two wives.
ArPharazonV: Miriel's Feanor's mother, yes. Not his wife.
karakedi25: I don't believe that Miriel was a
VardaValar1: argh my error aye
karakedi25: vanya
AriehnV: Feanors wife was Nerdanel
karakedi25: Indis was the second wife, and she was of the Vanyar
VardaValar1: Nerdanel was Feanor's wife, sorry
VardaValar1: Aye
AriehnV: yes indeed ^^
karakedi25: as I understand it, there was an element of romance in most if not all elven pairings
VardaValar1: Aye. Nerdanel was the only one who could keep Feanor from being off the wall. :-)
ArPharazonV: Eol and Aredhel could be.. debatable.
VardaValar1: Even that had some romance.
karakedi25: over time, yes
VardaValar1: Mostly convenience on her side
ArPharazonV: She still fled when she thought the coast was clear.
VardaValar1: True
karakedi25: she wanted a future for her son
VardaValar1: Feanor only had one grandson even with all those children
karakedi25: Feanor was the very model of a not-so modern narcissist
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: A couple of elf couples were broken up when some went to Middle-earth while others remained in Valinor
ArPharazonV: Did Fingolfin's wife come with him?
ArPharazonV: I know Turgon's wife died on the way.
ArPharazonV: and.. Finrod left someone behind, I believe.
VardaValar1: Amarie
ArPharazonV: That could be her.
VardaValar1: Anaire chose not to go with Fingolfin
ArPharazonV: And that's just some of the leaders we know of.
ArPharazonV: Among the whole host, there would have been a lot of broken couples.
ArPharazonV: And yet other couples only met because of it, like Galadriel and Celeborn.
VardaValar1: Met in Middle-earth, aye.
VardaValar1: The kin-slaying did help keep the two groups apart: the ones already in Middle-earth, and the ones coming back from Valinor.
VardaValar1: Don't forget to check out the rp on the forum. :-)
ArPharazonV: Yes, couples formed between the two groups were quite rare indeed.
VardaValar1: Since the romances tended not to affect the One Ring or Silmarils except in a few cases, we don't hear much detail about them.
VardaValar1: *picks up a hammer from the recently repaired shelf*
VardaValar1: *ker-thump*
VardaValar1: *rubs ears and replaces the hammer*

VardaValar1: After-meeting!
VardaValar1: Free chat.
ArPharazonV: Right, trying to dig out some flashgames for my personal gaming report...
VardaValar1: Neat

AriehnV has left the room.
AriehnV has entered the room.
AriehnV: uh i wanted to give you a link i picked up before i went to the larp but never got round to it :-)
ArPharazonV: Go for it :-)
AriehnV: one of my larp fellows posted it on the FD forum and thought you might find it interesting
ArPharazonV: *searches through* yep, there's Pharazon. Took longer to find than I thought!
ArPharazonV: That is a very detailed tree.
AriehnV: useful?
VardaValar1: Thank you, Arien
ArPharazonV: Right. Personal gaming.
AriehnV: your welcome :-) as i said thanks go to Forever Destiny trhere who gave me the link in the first place

ArPharazonV: Flashgaming: There are some other games I could mention, but I think I'll just stick to the sequel to an anti-Mario platformer I think I gave you a while ago.
ArPharazonV: Right, I'll go on then :-)
ArPharazonV: Diablo 3: Season 4 about to start! Should be good, planning to play my first wizard for it. Looking forward to some of the new features.
AriehnV: right dear people .. i l head up the stairs for tonight
ArPharazonV: Heroes of the Storm: Making progress on the treasure goblin thing, hopefully I'll get it in time. No new heroes bought this week.
AriehnV: Namarie :-)
AriehnV has left the room.
VardaValar1: Namarie Arien :-)
ArPharazonV: Namarie Arien!
ArPharazonV: Hearthstone: Saved up a lot of gold now for the expansion coming out next week! Also, 5 classes are level 36 now, with new and useful golden cards as rewards.
ArPharazonV: Other 4 are soon to follow.
ArPharazonV: WoW: Finished the Garrison Campaign this week! And immediately followed it up by doing the Tanaan intro questline, starting my Shipyard.
ArPharazonV: That's quite a complicated new feature, but seems okay. I just need to get over my fear of actually losing ships on failed missions.
ArPharazonV: Plenty of new stuff to do with the shipyard, and starting it also allowed me to start the last chapter of the questline for the legendary ring, so I hope that'll progress well.
ArPharazonV: I've also started pet battling again, building my menagerie in the garrison, fighting pet trainers across the continent, and gathering up pet charms for rewards to buy.
ArPharazonV: On top of that, I have started to collect all the wild pets in Draenor, preferably of Rare quality, which can make a rather long but satisfying search sometimes :-) 2 zones complete, Gorgrond pets are next.
ArPharazonV: Raid progress: Heroic Gorefiend killed for the first time. We hope to proceed with Iskar next, and have made good progress there already.
ArPharazonV: And that's my gaming for this week!
VardaValar1: Thank you, Phar :-)
karakedi25: namarie
karakedi25 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Namarie
VardaValar1: Namarie
ArPharazonV: And more classes to 36! One to go, but I'll deal with that tomorrow.
VardaValar1: :-)
ArPharazonV: oki, saving and sending transcript
VardaValar1: Thank you