Valar Guild

April 20, 2014 Sunday Meeting

5pm EDT (UTC/GMT - 5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by
Ar-Pharazon and Varda.

Attending: (5)
    AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Finrod-(V)/TH0R0NGIL, Indis-(V)/karakedi25, VardaValar1 (presiding)

Meeting begins
    Varda, Faramir, Eowyn
    New art
    Elder Scrolls Online
    flashgaming: Lab of the Dead (zombie game)
    Legends of Equestria
    My Little Investigations
    World  of WarCraft
    Lord of the Rings Online
    Chat topic: To me, the main difference between the two opposing groups thoughout the books has been freedom of choice. Agree or disagree, and can you show examples?
    More on the chat topic.
    More on Elder Scrolls.

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
AriehnV has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
TH0R0NGIL has entered the room.
TH0R0NGIL has left the room.
TH0R0NGIL has entered the room.
AriehnV: aiya both
ArPharazonV: Aiya Thorongil!
AriehnV: Aiya Thorongil :-D
TH0R0NGIL: Aiya :-D
TH0R0NGIL: Long time no see
karakedi25 has entered the room.
AriehnV: Finrod and Indis too :-D
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
karakedi25: aiya
AriehnV: Aiya indeed happy easter all :-) i
AriehnV: it seems Varda is not coming tonight .. so shall we start?
ArPharazonV: Your call!
ArPharazonV: And happy easter :-)
karakedi25: she's coming
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya and Happy Easter Arien, Ar-Pharazon, Finrod, and Indis :-)
TH0R0NGIL: Aiya :-)
VardaValar1: My apologies for lateness, and thank you to Indis for the call.
VardaValar1: Great to see you again, Finrod!
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
AriehnV: Happy Easter , Varda :-)
TH0R0NGIL: Likewise :-)
ArPharazonV: Same!

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: A star shines on the hour of our meeing!
VardaValar1: Membership:
VardaValar1: We have Finrod back. :-)
TH0R0NGIL: :-)
VardaValar1: This is Easter day, may you all have a great one. :-)
VardaValar1: I learned from Faramir that in England and Ireland this is a day for turkey, so that's what we're having today. :-)
TH0R0NGIL: I learned from my wife that its a day for Hot Cross Buns, so that's what my house smells like right now
VardaValar1: Meriadoc should be flying here around mid-May to pick me up from Arizona.
VardaValar1: ohh, wonderful Finrod!
ArPharazonV: We just.. grilled. In the backyard though, so the smell's not too bad.
VardaValar1: hehehe - didn't burn it I trust?
VardaValar1: Of course, we could have pie like these little guys:
VardaValar1: Any other membership news?
ArPharazonV: It was a new grill/plate/thingy, so the first smell it gave was rather burned, but the meat itself was fine :-)
VardaValar1: *whew*

VardaValar1: Web news:
VardaValar1: For the Tolkien Site, Art section, DeepGroover-(T) sent in his latest model, a dwarf in a mohawk:
VardaValar1: Enjoy :-)

VardaValar1: Gaming:
ArPharazonV: Well, I guess this also counts as web, but I'm about to post a short RP post.
VardaValar1: In non-WoW, non-LotRO news, Finrod has something to tell us.
ArPharazonV: Neglected it again during the week, but I just wrote up something quickly ;-)
ArPharazonV: allright, go ahead
VardaValar1: Ahh thanks! We'll have to check that out in Tolkien, Phar, should be fun.
VardaValar1: Finrod, go ahead when ready.
ArPharazonV: (posted)

TH0R0NGIL: Oh, I was just going to ask if anyone is playing the new Elder Scrolls Online
TH0R0NGIL: Or has played Elder Scrolls games in the past and might be interested in doing so
VardaValar1: It just came out as an MMO
ArPharazonV: I used to play a lot of Morrowind before WoW came out. But I haven't even bought Skyrim and I'm not really interested in another MMO.
ArPharazonV: But transcript readers might!
VardaValar1: Also, be sure to put in a thread on the Forum - let us know which server you use and what your name is for contact
TH0R0NGIL: Certainly
karakedi25: I played in the beta.
VardaValar1: Thank you
TH0R0NGIL: There are only 2 megaservers currently, I'm in the North American one
VardaValar1: Indis, would you be interested in the liveone?
VardaValar1: Thanks
karakedi25: No, though it was fun, LotRO takes all my time.
VardaValar1: Good to hear it was fun. :-)
karakedi25: Also, though the actual gameplay was fun, it didn't seem to have the 'soul' that lotro has. Was much more impersonal.
ArPharazonV: Maybe you're just less familiar with the source material?
TH0R0NGIL: Yeah, I didn't play the beta, so I can't compare them, though I've heard from others that the live game is a significant upgrade from the beta
AriehnV: i find Skyrim is quite expensive to buy
karakedi25: I'm much less familiar with the source material.
karakedi25: but it comes down to time.
AriehnV: i would have been curios to try it at least for a bit but it costs about 70 quid and then the subscription
ArPharazonV: I actually watched a bit of a let's play for the beta, on youtube. So that's almost like trying it ;-)
TH0R0NGIL: Well the first month of play is free, if you decide to try it at some point in the future, let me know!
AriehnV: yip will do Finrod :-)
AriehnV: but will probably wait a while yet
AriehnV: and maybe check out the u tube videos
TH0R0NGIL: yeah there are a lot of those, and I'm sure they will only increase
VardaValar1: Aye to that
VardaValar1: Ok, we're working on getting Finrod back into the forum.
VardaValar1: Phar, do you have some non-WoW, non-LotRO news?
ArPharazonV: Yepper.
ArPharazonV: What shall I start with...

ArPharazonV: Flashgaming: bit more games of all sorts, one that I played to completion and took some time to do it was "Lab of the Dead", where you have to test various weapons, items and foods on a bunch of zombies available to you, while unravelling the story of the previous team in the facility. It actually turns out to be a bit more complex than what that might sound like.
ArPharazonV: So if you like stuff that has to do with zombies, you might like this one, though it can be rather violent.
VardaValar1: Lot of people playing zombie games right now, thanks.

ArPharazonV: I've also played more of Hearthstone, gotten all but 1 class to lvl 10 at this point, so I'm very close to unlocking all the basic cards. I've also started saving up gold for the announced future content about Naxxramas, which I mentioned last week.

ArPharazonV: Item 3: Legends of Equestria had another open server weekend this weekend. I tried it for a while, but spent less time on it than on the last one about 2 months ago, since the differences weren't that much; no new towns or areas, pretty much the same secrets and mini-games, and only a few new quests and items to equip. It was planned because of a convention they're attending, and not because there had been so much progress.

ArPharazonV: Item 4: I've played more of My Little Investigations for a bit, and have passed beyond the content of the released demo-versions, so it's all new and fun :-)
ArPharazonV: And it had an automatic patching system when I opened it again, so that's a pleasant surprise. It means no manual downloading of new versions, and the ability for quick fixing of bugs.
VardaValar1: o good
ArPharazonV: And that's all my 4 things for this week!
ArPharazonV: non-WoW, that is
ArPharazonV: Oh!
VardaValar1: Go ahead :-)

ArPharazonV: Almost forgot to mention that I talked to Fladrif a bit earlier in the week, and played some Hearthstone games with him on monday. At least I think that was this week and not the previous ;-)
ArPharazonV: Checking last week's transcript real quick, can't find mention of it, so it must've been this week!
VardaValar1: Very good!
ArPharazonV: We matched up a few of our classes and decks, but he's been playing for a bit longer than me (all the way back in the beta) so he's got rather better cards than I do.
ArPharazonV: I only won one match, and that was because he spared me once, and I managed to turn the tables after that ;-)
ArPharazonV: I'm guessing I'll need to acquire some more expert packs before I face him again!
VardaValar1: Good plan :-)
ArPharazonV: It also turns out he's about 10 hours later than me, time-zone wise, so that's probably a big reason why we've not heard from him for some time.
VardaValar1: New Zealand
ArPharazonV: Sounds about right.

VardaValar1: WoW:
VardaValar1: Any WoW news from Phar or Arien?
ArPharazonV: Yepper.
AriehnV: not really from me so go ahead Phari
ArPharazonV: No raids planned in the reset around Easter, so I've had a bit more time on my hands in the evenings:
ArPharazonV: I was planning to do a lot more archeology because of this, but I ended up getting my last pristine artefact on thursday, so that's now all done :-)
AriehnV: nice :-)
AriehnV: oh yes i have a bit of news in fact
AriehnV: i nearly forgot ^^
ArPharazonV: After that I got a new pet I was missing from Thunder Isle, which drops from the filth mobs in the Saurok pit, and after that I've gone back to the Timeless Isle to farm for my last pet (a spineclaw, which is rather complicated to get), and the mount from Huolon. That'll keep me busy for a while, which is good, because I'm running out of stuff to do solo in this expansion ;-)
AriehnV: On Monday Phar helped me on the timeless Isle to get enough timeless coins to get a decent dagger for my big blush
ArPharazonV: And there was that!
AriehnV: we grabbed a few randoms and had a five man splash and being splashed by the Ordos guys for both rep and Epoch stones
AriehnV: and a couple of rares while at it ^^
ArPharazonV: Yep, quite fun to work together again :-) And now you have a new weapon!
AriehnV: and thats about it but was fun :-) indeed many thanks
AriehnV: just need the raid time vision so i need a raid invite for that
AriehnV: but thats only a second or so
VardaValar1: Thank you :-)

VardaValar1: LotRO:
VardaValar1: Big stuff happening in LotRO
VardaValar1: We had Update 13 with lots of new things.
VardaValar1: Here are the release notes:
VardaValar1: release-Notes&p=7140951#post7140951
VardaValar1: Ioreth was in the featured LotRO band last night in the Greenfields, with the Vanimor kin. She was our Valar representative.
VardaValar1: We have links on the News to show it if you'd like to see
VardaValar1: All wore white as their uniform outfits
VardaValar1: This is one reason to grab cosmetic slots. :-)
karakedi25: lots of group stuff has restarted--people are trying to farm First Age symbols
VardaValar1: Heré's a pic:
VardaValar1: True
VardaValar1: Way of the Smiths the favorite instance for that still?
VardaValar1: 6 and 12 mans, high a tier as you can get?
AriehnV: nice
VardaValar1: Indis is in a raid right now so it's hard for her to type
karakedi25: yes, in WoS. It's quick and seems to yield well
karakedi25: Remnant kin raid
VardaValar1: The speed allows more chances for grabbing a First Age. Each player has separate loot.
karakedi25: And Remnant (another kin) has developed a core of fairly good raiders
karakedi25: (Remnant often looks for more people to fill out raids. I check for Valar, but there are surprisingly few people on.)
VardaValar1: Mostly too low to join you I think
karakedi25: they are 95 raids
VardaValar1: Aye

VardaValar1: I didn't realize people didn't know why I'm still in Arizona instead of giving you all proper attention
VardaValar1: I went to Arizona in January to see our first grandbaby and help while Eowyn was getting better.
VardaValar1: But while there, in February when Fangorn came up to take me home,
VardaValar1: Faramir fell from a ladder and shattered his right leg above the ankle, and his arm on the same side came out of the socket.
VardaValar1: He can't use a crutch for that reason, and is in a wheelchair
ArPharazonV: How's his arm doing now, then?
VardaValar1: His leg is being held together with titanium plates and bolts that will remain the rest of his life
ArPharazonV: Ack.
VardaValar1: The arm is regaining most of its range now, but hasn't got the strength he needs to hold a crutch, or quite enough range.
VardaValar1: He's working from home, handles a huge database.
ArPharazonV: Good thing he doesn't have a physically intensive job.
VardaValar1: They really want thim back in the office, but he can't drive and the sitting at a desk is bad for his leg which needs raised.
VardaValar1: Eowyn could take him up there, putting the baby in a car chair, and bring him back, but the problem with the sitting is killer.
VardaValar1: Leg gets red and swollen
karakedi25: what does he do at home? lie down?
VardaValar1: So they could stand some help to get some sleep.
VardaValar1: Elevates the leg
VardaValar1: Desk doesn't allow that.
VardaValar1: and the long drive is not so great for it either.
karakedi25: could he work temporarily with a reclining chair and a hospital-type table?
VardaValar1: I'll be leaving some time in May, as they should be able to handlethings better then, as the baby is starting to sleep longer, even with the early teething.
VardaValar1: He can at home, not at work.
karakedi25: work needs to accommodate if they want him back
VardaValar1: Anyway, you all deserve an explanation for why I haven't been working with the group and recruiting as hard as I should.
VardaValar1: He's getting better and works well from home.
karakedi25: good to know he's doing better
VardaValar1: He might operate with once a week come-ins after a bit.
VardaValar1: That is a common work-around for work at home folks.
VardaValar1: work from home, I mean
VardaValar1: Any other business, comments, suggestions?

VardaValar1: Tolkien:
VardaValar1: Forum Role-play: Ar-Pharazon has made a post. :-)
VardaValar1: Feel free to dive in and post with him. :-)

VardaValar1: We have a topic for the Tolkien Chat. Feel free to let us know now if you have another one.
VardaValar1: To me, the main difference between the two opposing groups thoughout the books has been freedom of choice. Agree or disagree, and can you show examples?
karakedi25: would like to contribute more, but I'm healer for a fellowship and have to pay attention :-(
VardaValar1: Didn't expect you to be able to talk much, no worries
ArPharazonV:'s an interesting way of putting the distinction, but since it does feel like control vs freedom, I have to agree. Though the good guys and the bad guys can be mixed up at it.
VardaValar1: True
karakedi25: and people, e.g., Denethor of Minas Tirith, can go wrong by trying to achieve too much control. Ditto his son Boromir.
ArPharazonV: For example, the Valar did maintain some control over the Noldor while they were in Aman that the Noldor did not like, and it's why they ended up leaving and making war without the Valar's consent.
VardaValar1: Morgoth and Sauron wanted complete control over their subjects, and wanted everyone to be their subjects.
VardaValar1: The Valar allowed the Noldor to leave. They could have stopped them.
ArPharazonV: Yes. They knew where to draw the line. That's definitely in contrast with Morgoth/Sauron.
karakedi25: I think it was primarily feanor, who was quite a demagogue
karakedi25: on the other hand, self-control is highly desirable
VardaValar1: Feanor was into control too, not as badly as Morgoth
ArPharazonV: Is freedom and self-control ever used by Morgoth/Sauron as a lure to attract people into their fold? They promised a great deal of power to the men they had working for them, at least.
VardaValar1: Charismatic speeches, oaths, trading on family loyalty.
karakedi25: morgoth was the king of dysfunctional power
VardaValar1: Aye power was the promise. But once they had orcs or others, those had to do as told.
ArPharazonV: Once they worked for him, they had no freedom left. Though if you look at LotR, the free peoples were ironically more disciplined and regimented than the orcs, who would often argue and fight amongst themselves. That's a sort of freedom too.
VardaValar1: Wanting to have their own bandit groups. : )
VardaValar1: But they couldn't do that under Morgoth or Sauron.
karakedi25: that was self-discipline
karakedi25: when they were organized
VardaValar1: Agreeing on a goal
karakedi25: A
ArPharazonV: So those who fight for freedom end up under organized self-control, while those who fight for an all-controlling dictator are more drawn to their little freedoms in the meantime.
ArPharazonV: There's a strange sort of balance in that.
karakedi25: And agreeing to temporarily sacrifice some freedom for a common goal
VardaValar1: When they can't have any large freedoms, they hunt for smaller ones.
ArPharazonV: Right!
ArPharazonV: And when you can have large freedoms, you're willing to sacrifice the smaller ones to protect them.
VardaValar1: They also vented frustrations on each other
karakedi25: Perhaps the point is that they have the freedom to yield some freedoms voluntarily, with the understanding that they will get them back
ArPharazonV: That's probably part of it, yes.
VardaValar1: Aye, they have the trust to be able to expect to return to free civilian life
karakedi25: It sounds as if one of the basic issues is trust, of which there appears to have been little among the subjects of the dark side
VardaValar1: Trust, there's a major theme.
ArPharazonV: The dark side does not have a reputation for being very trustworthy. Morgoth kinda screwed that up back in Valinor.
AriehnV: i dont think that trust is what they aimfor
AriehnV: more like fake trust
VardaValar1: Deception?
AriehnV: lure you into their arms with false promises and leave it to their own mind how to interprete prices
AriehnV: yep .. Masters of deception
VardaValar1: Most of us seem to be elsewhere or about ready for bed. Shall we end the discussion for tonight?
VardaValar1: and remember to post on the rp. :-)
ArPharazonV: That sounds.. deceptive.
VardaValar1: Sorry, how so?
VardaValar1: post during the week?
ArPharazonV: Nevermind.
VardaValar1: okie dokie
VardaValar1: *raises the gavel high*
VardaValar1: *puts the gavel down - thunnnnnk!*

VardaValar1: After-meeting
VardaValar1: Free chat. : )
TH0R0NGIL: Did someone say free???
ArPharazonV: That's how they get you. They offer freedom and then they control you.
ArPharazonV: There's the deception.
ArPharazonV: Nothing is truly free...
AriehnV: yes as in non guided .. you can of course fight about the interpretation of free
karakedi25: TAANSTAFL
TH0R0NGIL: I was invisioning the frenzy that happens in Diablo whenever someone uses the word free....
karakedi25: Note that the question (or leading statement) was phrased as 'the difference between...' I'd prefer to say one of several ways that the two poles differed
VardaValar1: Agreed,they had numerous differences.
karakedi25: And they are poles--there are points between them
VardaValar1: Would it be considered a major or minor difference?
ArPharazonV: It seems major. Control vs freedom is always a major political motivation.
VardaValar1: One is power from the top controlling the people, the other is the people handling their own destinies.
VardaValar1: The Istari were only intended to be advisors, not leaders/champions/rulers. Saruman didn't stick with the program.
ArPharazonV: Anarchy's not a very good thing either, but it's a good thing the separate races and kingdoms have their own hierarchies :-)
VardaValar1: Most groups tend to wind up with some kind of leadership, hopefully not too tight of one.
VardaValar1: Mostly just to keep things from flying apart and helping with goal setting
karakedi25: leadership and power aren't dirty words
karakedi25: like so many other things, it's what you do with them
ArPharazonV: Like with so many other things, moderation is key :-)
VardaValar1: aye
VardaValar1: Even too much water can drown a person.
ArPharazonV: Even too much oxygen is bad for you :-)
VardaValar1: true

VardaValar1: Finrod made the post for Elder Scrolls gaming:
AriehnV: Namarie all :-)
ArPharazonV: Zenimax? Wasn't it Bethesda?
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
TH0R0NGIL: it was Bethesda before
AriehnV has left the room.
TH0R0NGIL: but I guess they didn't have the infrastructure for an MMO?
ArPharazonV: So they sold the rights or something?
karakedi25: I believe they're still involved with the design
TH0R0NGIL: yes
TH0R0NGIL: most of the design team is the same people I believe
ArPharazonV: That's always good.
TH0R0NGIL: yeah, I was a bit skeptical myself that it wouldn't feel like Tamriel, but they did a decent job
VardaValar1: Helps to have the same people!
TH0R0NGIL has left the room.
ArPharazonV: saving and sending transcript