Valar Guild

June 28, 2009 Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5); (GMT = 22:00?)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by: 
Ar-Pharazon and Varda

Attending: (10)
    Members: AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Eonwe Valar, FladrifV, Indis-(V)/karakedi25, Luthien-(T)/luthienathariel, pallandovalar, TulkasValar61, VardaValar1 (presiding)
    Guest: betulamoon

Meeting begins
    Rana-(Initiate in LotRO)
    Bombur-(V) in a side window said he's usually busy during the meetings and has to decline invitations, but wants to remain associated. He's lost interest in the WoW Shadowmoon server and his paladin has gone inactive there.
Gaming Part 1:
    WarCraft 3 (Before-meeting)
    Everquest (Before-meeting)
    Games Site
    Tolkien Site: art server up again, link work in progress
Gaming Part 2:
    Marriage in Middle-earth

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
ArPharazonV: Aiya
betulamoon: hi
ArPharazonV: and who might you be?
betulamoon: new member:-)
ArPharazonV: guildname? :-)
betulamoon: oh not in a game sorry
ArPharazonV: ah, allright
ArPharazonV: welcome!
betulamoon: just here to see the chat:-)
betulamoon: ty
betulamoon: what game your playing?
ArPharazonV: won't start yet for about 40 minutes, but eh...
ArPharazonV: World of Warcraft, Warcraft 3, a few others...
betulamoon: i know hehe
betulamoon: cool I tried Everquest for a while
betulamoon: years ago though
ArPharazonV: never tried that, WoW is my first MMO
betulamoon: never played that
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Phar and Betulamoon :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
VardaValar1: Tulkas just signed on, cool
betulamoon: Aiya
VardaValar1: Not quite time for the meeting, slipping out for few minutes.
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
FladrifV has entered the room.
FladrifV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya Eonwe and Fladrif :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya both
TulkasValar61 has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya.
ArPharazonV: just finishing up this AV, then I'll be here
FladrifV: finishing reading
TulkasValar61: Good Afternoon
VardaValar1: Tulkas, aiya meldo!
karakedi25 has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya Tulkas and Indis
karakedi25: aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya Indis :-)
Eonwe Valar: Heya all who just entered.
TulkasValar61: I got as far as downloading LOTR online..but there is not room for it to open...I've deleted all the programs I could but no avail
AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Yikes
VardaValar1: Thanks for trying so hard
VardaValar1: Aiya Arien :-)
TulkasValar61: did I whisper that properly Varda
AriehnV: what happened? and aiya
VardaValar1: You spoke in the room, Tulkas :-)
VardaValar1: A good place to say it though.
TulkasValar61: sorry :-$
VardaValar1: More hearing, more might be able to help
TulkasValar61: true

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Membership:
VardaValar1: Betulamoon is here as a visitor with us today, interested in Tolkien.
karakedi25: Welcome!
pallandovalar has entered the room.
pallandovalar has left the room.
VardaValar1: Rana joined us as an initiate in LotRO yesterday, trying to decide on a name.
betulamoon: hi and thank you
karakedi25: (despite my log-in name, my guild name is Indis)
karakedi25: betulamoon, are you Rana?
pallandovalar has left the room.
VardaValar1: No, Rana is not here.
karakedi25: ah, ok
VardaValar1: He has said he would like to come sometime, once he downloads AIM.
VardaValar1: Any further membership news?
VardaValar1: Eonwe needs to leave in an hour.

VardaValar1: Gaming Part 1:
VardaValar1: What non WoW and non LotRO games did we play this past week? Anyone can pipe up.
FladrifV: well actually, you can already guess it
ArPharazonV: chess for the ent!
FladrifV: *grin*
ArPharazonV: btw, member news
ArPharazonV: this was last week of college for me, I haf vacation!
VardaValar1: Congratulations!
ArPharazonV: ended my last course with an 8.4 average, so happy
VardaValar1: Lungorthin's note says this is his last day today. :-)
VardaValar1: Congrats, Phar. : )
AriehnV: \;0 grats Phara
FladrifV: grats phar now starts your lazy season ;-)
VardaValar1: Now maybe he will play you chess? :-)
VardaValar1: How is the chess going, Flad?
FladrifV: bit low some matches but the tournament is still waiting for all to complete
FladrifV: and none of the valar dared to challange me yet
VardaValar1: lol
VardaValar1: I keep forgetting to bug Merry to come after you, sorry. : )
FladrifV: no worries
FladrifV: ents do have a lot of patience
VardaValar1: Would you be interested in helping some folk get better with their chess games?
VardaValar1: How should they contact you?
FladrifV: aim works best
VardaValar1: (He said sure in a side window)
FladrifV: or email
VardaValar1: Oh, I should mention
VardaValar1: betula is another Netherlander. Please still keep it to English, gang!

VardaValar1: Before we go to the next part of gaming, we need to go to Web.
VardaValar1: Eonwe, you had something?
Eonwe Valar: Not really, but I should mention that I noticed a slight problem with the main games listing on the Games Page. I'll try to fix it as soon as I can. Until then, you're invited to try and see if you can figure out what it is :}
luthienathariel has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Suilad Luthien :-)
luthienathariel: suilannon mellyn in phain *bows*
VardaValar1: Eonwe is asking for folk to help him check out a problem on the Games Site.
VardaValar1: /curtsey
VardaValar1: On the main Tolkien Site,
VardaValar1: the art server is back up. :-)
luthienathariel: ah congrats
VardaValar1: The links are often not working, because the server folk decided not to redirect http://www.valar to http://valar without pay.
VardaValar1: We are too cheap to pay. :-)
VardaValar1: So I am working on a bazillion links.
luthienathariel: gosh, don't you have someone else who can do that?
luthienathariel: I could
VardaValar1: Currently up to The Bohemian Weasel, Nazgul section.
VardaValar1: lol
VardaValar1: I work cheap.
luthienathariel: no, I'm serious
luthienathariel: it's part of my job as a programmer, see
VardaValar1: Thanks, we'll have to discuss how in the world we could do that in a side window.
VardaValar1: I might take you up on it.
luthienathariel: ok
VardaValar1: Some of the links I am changing to just the local, to avoid future problems.
VardaValar1: Some just dropping www
VardaValar1: Ok, any further web news?
VardaValar1: If not, back to Gaming.
VardaValar1: If the Tolkien folk would like to run grab a sandwich, this is a good time. ;-)

VardaValar1: Gaming Part 2:
VardaValar1: WoW:
VardaValar1: Europe. Arien, do you have any news? Seen Helm or Valandil?
AriehnV: yes i have indeed news
AriehnV: and i have seen Helm but not on Argent Dawn
AriehnV: well one thing .. I have surrendered the Steel Bonnets to himself , who is a real borderer , or descended from one of the worst raiding clas
AriehnV: clans
AriehnV: Helm that is :-)
AriehnV: stayed as officer there with three characterz and else am back on Argent Dawn :-)
VardaValar1: So you''re now focused on Argent Dawn again?
AriehnV: yes , at least a lot more than i was
VardaValar1: The gang there should like that. :-)
AriehnV: i will do some bgs and dailies over there and help them keep the Bonnets going
ArPharazonV: it's nice to have our sunshine around!
VardaValar1: hehe
AriehnV: but will play mainly on AD :-)
ArPharazonV: to chat with, if nothing else
VardaValar1: Phar, did you have AD news?
ArPharazonV: hmm... only that I caught my first Mr. Pinchy yesterday ;-)
ArPharazonV: first charge was no pet yet, but I have hope for the next 2!
ArPharazonV: our raiding is going well, we're making progress... Mimiron down in 10-man and Hodir and Freya on 25-man
ArPharazonV: but no other news :-)
VardaValar1: Sounds like quite a bit going on. : )
VardaValar1: Eonwe, would you like to give a report for WoW Lothar server?
Eonwe Valar: I didn't get to spend much time on WoW this week, so my report is rather small.
Eonwe Valar: First, don't forget to get your Midsummer Fire Festival stuff done if you're going for the meta-achievement :}
VardaValar1: ah right!
ArPharazonV: *nod* got Flame Warden this week
ArPharazonV: they actually reset the bonfires sometime this week, and I was almost done before they did
ArPharazonV: so I got nearly twice the quest-money :-)
ArPharazonV: from doing it all again
ArPharazonV: I know one person in my raidcomm who did it on 5 characters so far
Eonwe Valar: I did a bit of Wintergrasp and upgraded Auros' belt this week, and have been doing the flames on my Druid Kalmo to get him to Outland just a little bit faster.
Eonwe Valar: Elwing I believe got 78 the other day on her Hunter, so she's coming along nicely :}
VardaValar1: Very good. :-)
Eonwe Valar: If she's not there, she's really close.
Eonwe Valar: Patch 3.2 is on the PTR, so it shouldn't be more than another few weeks before it's out.
VardaValar1: (Public Testing Realm)
Eonwe Valar: I think that's about it for me.
VardaValar1: Thanks, Eonwe. :-)
ArPharazonV: hmm, already? we're not even at Yoggsaroth yet....
pallandovalar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: I understand your brother, Dracxil, was on too.
pallandovalar: odd
ArPharazonV: oh well, lots of nice thingies in the patch anyway
VardaValar1: Pallando, aiya!
pallandovalar: dced
VardaValar1: Happens.
pallandovalar: not to me, usually. :p
VardaValar1: My family was on Lothar server a bit, thanks for all that cloth, Eonwe. :-)
Eonwe Valar: MP :}
VardaValar1: Mostly we were on Uldaman server as Horde, and leveled up there.
VardaValar1: We ran together in Outlands with the characters just starting that area.
VardaValar1: Besides questing and Ramparts and Blood Furnace instances, we enjoyed the fire festival doings.
VardaValar1: Much hilarity was had, especially with that Maypole thing.
VardaValar1: Lord of the Rings Online (LotRO):
VardaValar1: The expansion is out keeping us all very busy.
VardaValar1: Breeland has been revamped, the shade is roaming away from his crypt out towards the hunting lodge at night now.
VardaValar1: The crafting system has new crit items, many from doing gathering such as mining or collecting wood.
VardaValar1: Old ones may be bartered in for the new ones.
VardaValar1: Book 8 is now going, including a villain reaching out from Dol Guldur!
VardaValar1: It has us speculating on the direction of the next expansion. ;-)
TulkasValar61 has left the room.
VardaValar1: We have three new three-man instances and one new 12 man or is it 6-man. Indis, do you remember?
ArPharazonV: are you able to get across the mountains yet?
VardaValar1: We are in Lothlorien now.
VardaValar1: With enough rep, I've been in to meet the Lord and Lady. :-)
VardaValar1: We can be in the Battles of Lothlorien.
VardaValar1: In the books, Lorien was attacked and repulsed. We help with that.
ArPharazonV: neat
VardaValar1: Also, the Lord and Lady are making preparations to aid Mirkwood and attack Dol Guldur.
VardaValar1: We are helping with the preparations now.
VardaValar1: Auros, some of us got together to craft a present for you. You have mail.
VardaValar1: Auros is a name of Eonwe. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}
VardaValar1: Would anyone else like to add to the LotRO report?
VardaValar1: I'll add that the instances and book take some smarts to pass, and some of the earlier gear from previous instances.
VardaValar1: I like how one thing builds on another.
VardaValar1: Pallando, do you have EVE Online news?
VardaValar1: I suspect Pallando is on a spacewalk. We may hear from him in a bit.
VardaValar1: Any further news, business, comments?
VardaValar1: Any more pie?
karakedi25: pie? pie? I can haz pie?
Eonwe Valar: What would the Shire do if the Party Tree got up and walked away? :}
ArPharazonV: get up and try to follow?
VardaValar1: Drag the feast tables along to set up where it sits next?
VardaValar1: *hands out pie*
VardaValar1: Tulkas seems to have completely disconnected.
VardaValar1: Might be all that trying to overload his comp with LotRO?
ArPharazonV: maybe he barely succeeded and only has 5 mb left...
ArPharazonV: that can hurt a pc!
AriehnV: try and catch it?
ArPharazonV: ooh, a new battle report from SC2...
VardaValar1: URL, Phar?
ArPharazonV: is the European SC2 site
Eonwe Valar: for US
VardaValar1: Thorough of you, thanks, Phar. :-)
Eonwe Valar: ? :}
ArPharazonV: I often check the SC2 site, try to do it daily... just ran into it ;-)
ArPharazonV: and the second link was not mine!
VardaValar1: heheh thorough of you two. :-)
VardaValar1: /smackhead
VardaValar1: Any further news on the upcoming Diablo?
Eonwe Valar: Not in a while that I recall.
ArPharazonV: dunno, not really interested in that one... only check once every few mon ths
VardaValar1: We'll hope that they are working away on the programming. :-)
VardaValar1: Some folks are interested, so I'm asking for them.
VardaValar1: Any further news, business, comments, or flavors of pie?
ArPharazonV: *nod* just saying that I don't check up on it regularly :-)
Eonwe Valar: Last update for D3 was the Berstiary a little more than a month ago. Everything else on that news page is general blizzard stuff mostly.
Eonwe Valar: *Bestiary
VardaValar1: Sounds like we don't have to check on that one daily yet.
VardaValar1: Thank you.
Eonwe Valar: *Everything newer, that is.

VardaValar1: We're about to lose Eonwe, so I'll move on to Tolkien now.
VardaValar1: JRRT and his wife stayed together for a lifetime. How do we see the way he may have viewed marriage in his books? What couples do we know of and what happened to them?
ArPharazonV: Beren and Luthien, Finwe and Miriel...
VardaValar1: Anyone can speak up during Tolkien chat. Open book also.
ArPharazonV: Aragorn and Arwen
AriehnV: Rosie and Sam
ArPharazonV: Thingol and Melian
Eonwe Valar: Aulė and Yavanna, Fangorn and Fimbrethil...
ArPharazonV: Faramir and Eowyn
AriehnV: Celeborn and Galadriel
VardaValar1: Eomer and Lothiriel
ArPharazonV: Elrond and... *thinks* Celebrian?
VardaValar1: Right, Phar
Eonwe Valar: I think we get some interesting insight into Aulė's and Yavanna's marriage from their chapter in the Sil.
AriehnV: earendil and ... Elwing?
VardaValar1: Aye Arien.
betulamoon: Namarie all:-)
ArPharazonV: namarie!
AriehnV: Namarie :-)
VardaValar1: Sleep well, Betulamoon, and thanks for coming!
Eonwe Valar: Some interesting insight into the relations between Ents and Entwives in Fangorn's song as well.
betulamoon has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Time for me to go too. Have fun and take care :} I look forward to reading the transcript on this one :}
VardaValar1: True, that may have been one of the few spots where couples didn't manage to stay together, although we know the ents continued looking for them after the disaster.
VardaValar1: Namarie, meldo. :-)
AriehnV: Namarie Eonwe :-)
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
VardaValar1: What do we see in common about these marriages, if anything?
ArPharazonV: all these marriages, in common? that's a tough one, they were quite different at times...
ArPharazonV: I suppose nobody ever divorced
VardaValar1: Right
VardaValar1: JRRT never divorced, and that may have come through in his tales.
VardaValar1: They also married, not just lived together.
VardaValar1: Were they glad to be together, or gritting their teeth to do it?
ArPharazonV: Elven marriages were supposed to last forever, and even after one of them died remarriage was usually not an option.. as the other would always come back after some time
AriehnV: they were glad to be together
VardaValar1: Aye and aye
VardaValar1: Right Phar, the one time that didn't work was the rare exception and not given happily.
ArPharazonV: indeed
VardaValar1: Anyone remember what happened in that exception?
ArPharazonV: Miriel, Feanor's mother, died after giving life to him
ArPharazonV: and I think she elected not to come back, or in any case not to have any more children
VardaValar1: She gave all her strength to that, and never woke up. She went to Mandos and stayed.
karakedi25: she elected not to come back at all, and Manwe made an exception for Finwe so he could marry again
VardaValar1: Aye, Indis. Or Finwe would have been alone to the end of Arda.
karakedi25: Miriel had to agree to stay in Mandos forever.
VardaValar1: True, or it could not work.
ArPharazonV: does this mean the children of Finwe are the only half-siblings in Elven history?
VardaValar1: I believe you're right, Phar.
VardaValar1: How about children of these marriages?
VardaValar1: We know JRRT had several children that he dearly loved. Did this also come through into his writings?
ArPharazonV: most pair-ups have multiple children, and except for the afore-mentioned example, they all got along quite nicely
karakedi25: I believe Feanor was the only descendant of Miriel, and none of his children survived.
VardaValar1: The Feanorians lived long enough to cause quite a lot of damage and excitement, though.
ArPharazonV: there was really no sibling rivalry otherwise
AriehnV: there was no real rivalry even between them i think , they didnt feud with each other
ArPharazonV: Feanor had a grandson, Celebrimbor I believe....
AriehnV: they had all their own relms
VardaValar1: True, Phar
ArPharazonV: but I meant Feanor and his brothers, Arien :-)
AriehnV: ah true ok :-) aye Feanor didnt really get along with his half brothers
VardaValar1: That seems to have started with a feeling that his father should not have remarried.
AriehnV: i mean he despised them didn't he?
VardaValar1: He found them rivals, I think.
ArPharazonV: Quite. I believe he once threatened Fingolfin by sword in his father's halls
AriehnV: natural i think , he was the eldest
VardaValar1: He did his threat in Manwe's halls
ArPharazonV: oh? hmm...
ArPharazonV: could be
VardaValar1: About as public as he could get. But Fingolfin refused to take the bait.
VardaValar1: But in general,
VardaValar1: we see that marriage is treated as a good thing, and also true of having children.
VardaValar1: How about Valar marriages?
ArPharazonV: no children
VardaValar1: Aye.
karakedi25: but permanent
VardaValar1: The Undying hardly need replacement?
ArPharazonV: true enough
VardaValar1: Yet Elves had children.
karakedi25: isn't that also true of the elves in Valinor?
karakedi25: they could have overpopulated Valinor in short order
VardaValar1: The elves in Valinor also had children.
ArPharazonV: they didn't breed fast, and they're not technically as undying...
karakedi25: then they must have exercised some kind of restraint
VardaValar1: That's where Feanor was born, and his children.
karakedi25: no, they didn't breed fast, but they would have a long time there
VardaValar1: The elves sort of get recycled back. :-)
VardaValar1: Valinor was apparently quite huge. I suspect the Valar could enlarge it at will.
VardaValar1: They no longer had to worry about it bumping space with Middle-earth.
karakedi25: they get recycled if they get killed, but I'd guess the mortality rate in Valinor is rather low
ArPharazonV: you never know, they could accidentally stumble off a cliff....
karakedi25: plus those released over time from Mandos
VardaValar1: The elves who died in Middle-earth came to Mandos, then on to Valinor.
VardaValar1: They did not have many children, true, so that helped.
VardaValar1: The Vanyar seem to have been modeled somewhat on those in Valhalla.
VardaValar1: They were brought out from Valinor for the great battle, and will come out again for another.
VardaValar1: They may be doing a lot of battle training, along with their more civilized pursuits.
VardaValar1: One could expect accidents.
ArPharazonV: the Vanyar were always the smallest population though
ArPharazonV: I'd expect their growthrate to be quite small
VardaValar1: At the beginning, yes, and probably continued to be true. Good thing they could be recycled. :-)
ArPharazonV: hehe
VardaValar1: The Teleri seemed to be the largest group, but most stayed out by the ocean.
VardaValar1: The Noldor were the next largest, thinned out by the Exile mess.
ArPharazonV: think any of the Teleri were subject to drowning?
VardaValar1: Most returned to Valinor eventually, and would have probably been the main population inland.
VardaValar1: Most likely. More recycling.
VardaValar1: I wonder if they were given training in Mandos to prevent further accidents of the same type. : )
AriehnV: one thing was sure hundreds or even thousands of Elves drowned trying to return to Valinor after having lived a long time in Middlearth
AriehnV: tolkien speaks of many boats that were lost in the dangerous journey
VardaValar1: I am not arguing, just don't remember it. Where is that so I can look it up?
AriehnV: probably original Teleri (sindar) were amongst them
ArPharazonV: hmm... I believe there were 7 fleets sent out to get aid, none of them returend or made it to their destination
VardaValar1: I thought those swanboats were supposed to be pretty safe, that went from the Havens.
ArPharazonV: *returned
karakedi25: wasn't that efforts of the Noldor to get help from Valinor against Morgoth?
karakedi25: and none except Earendil made it through
ArPharazonV: yes
VardaValar1: Earendil was the one prophesied, aye. He was able to represent both sides, and had a silmaril.
VardaValar1: His wife was Elwing, to bring back our original topic, and his children were Elrond and Elros.
VardaValar1: Pallando-(Valar) is back.
VardaValar1: Would you like to give your Eve Online report?
VardaValar1: He seems afk again.
pallandovalar: I'm-a here.
VardaValar1: He said he was in the game hunting down pirates.
VardaValar1: ah, pardon, go ahead. :-)
pallandovalar: Yep, finished up a nice anti-pirate patrol.
VardaValar1: Sounds like an interesting thing to be doing.
pallandovalar: Pallando will be training skills again by August, ending a year and change traning haitus.
VardaValar1: change...what?
pallandovalar: as in, a year and some months.
pallandovalar: a year and change
ArPharazonV: first time I've heard that expression
VardaValar1: "change traning haitus."
pallandovalar: I wouldn't be suprised if I made it up.
ArPharazonV: change training hiatus
pallandovalar: no, it's "ending a year and change of" "training hiatus"
VardaValar1: Spaces between training?
ArPharazonV: it means he's had a hiatus from training for a year and a bit, I think
pallandovalar: ArPharazon gets it in one.
VardaValar1: That's a long time to not train.
pallandovalar: It is.
VardaValar1: What kind of training are you looking for next?
pallandovalar: He's utterly weak on support skills.
pallandovalar: So that's what's gonna go on.
VardaValar1: Makes sense.
VardaValar1: Did anyone have more to add?
karakedi25: have we exhausted the subject of marriage in Tolkien?
VardaValar1: It appeared so. Did you have more?
ArPharazonV: most marriages we haven't discussed seemed to last "happily ever after"
karakedi25: I wonder how he accounted for really unhappy marriages, which should have been possible, perhaps especially among Men, but possibly among elves as well
ArPharazonV: Eol and..... Aredhel I believe?
VardaValar1: Good one, Phar.
ArPharazonV: not technically a marriage
karakedi25: yes, an example
VardaValar1: That was not quite a marriage, aye. More of a near-captivity.
VardaValar1: The bad marriages in Middle-earth among elves appear to be an exception.
VardaValar1: Miriel and Pharazon were humans, and there were other examples of human marriages that were not happy.
karakedi25: but nevertheless, one wonders how Tolkien would deal with them.
VardaValar1: So we can see how those were shown.
karakedi25: he was a Catholic and a rather conservative one, so he wouldn't have believed in divorce....
karakedi25: but it's hard to think that he would sentence long-lived beings to an eternity of misery
VardaValar1: Trouble thinking of the names, the Numenorean king who was so fond of wood and his wife who was so hard to get along with.
ArPharazonV: which might be why he had Eol tossed off a wall....
VardaValar1: hehe - aye.
ArPharazonV: Aldarion and Erendis
karakedi25: Eol would have gone to Mandos though, as would Aredhel
VardaValar1: Thank you, Phar!
karakedi25: so presumably their deaths wouldn't end things
VardaValar1: Elves lived so long that they would have time to work things out, and plenty of others around them with wisdom to help.
ArPharazonV: I wouldn't be surprised if their times of release were quite different, though
ArPharazonV: Aredhel might even have refused to come out of Mandos if it would mean being reunited with Eol
VardaValar1: Or Eol would have had an attitude adjustment.
ArPharazonV: perhaps, but there's a lot of bad memories....
karakedi25: yes, and as you say, not really a marriage
karakedi25: I think it's unfinished business in Tolkien's legendarium
VardaValar1: She was not completely unwilling to be with Eol, so it might have come under the heading of elvish marriage.
VardaValar1: It was close to captivity, as she was not allowed to see her family.
VardaValar1: She chose to go see them anyway.
karakedi25: it was hardly a loving relationship
VardaValar1: It could have been a lot worse.
VardaValar1: It might have been salvaged in Valinor or, like Phar said, they might have been allowed to come out at widely different times.
VardaValar1: Like just before Arda ended for Eol.
karakedi25: Do you suppose Aredhel would be allowed to find a different partner?
VardaValar1: This is all pure speculation, depending on if it were a true marriage.
VardaValar1: Pardon, phone
VardaValar1: Fangorn say hi on the phone. :-)
AriehnV: say hi back :-)
karakedi25: return the 'hi' :-)
AriehnV: and good night from my side :-( bed time here , earlies
VardaValar1: *bangs gavel*
VardaValar1: After-meeting!
AriehnV: Namarie all :-)
VardaValar1: Sleep well
ArPharazonV: namarie Arien!
AriehnV has left the room.
pallandovalar: my recollection of Aredhel and Eol has been ruined by that Beren and Luthien epic.
pallandovalar: (they're in the Halls with everyone else)
karakedi25: or everyone who hasn't been released yet...
karakedi25: speaking of which, a Tolkien topic for a later meeting might be the Halls of Mandos, the criteria for leaving, what happened there, etc.
VardaValar1: Not much on that. Could be a pretty short discussion. :-)
karakedi25: no, but interesting speculation
karakedi25: is it appropriate to discuss the roleplay?
VardaValar1: After meeting, you can talk about anythihg
VardaValar1: I"m still on the phone
ArPharazonV: fine with me, I'll try to make a new post next week, probably getting too late to work on something now
VardaValar1: Postings from Indis and me
ArPharazonV: I noticed
ArPharazonV: Eonwe too, so it's the next day now
VardaValar1: Take care all!
karakedi25: who can move us on?
ArPharazonV: I think I'll just have Calion have a quiet night before he joins you in the morning, maybe visit Elmirė
karakedi25: Is it up to Eonwe to get the party off and moving?
VardaValar1: ok, off the phone
VardaValar1: We try to let everyone put in a post first.
VardaValar1: He got us to morning, and I got us to the stable and gave weather conditions.
ArPharazonV: oh, one question
ArPharazonV: are there... well... npcs with us?
ArPharazonV: this is also supposed to be the expedition to Angmar
ArPharazonV: so maybe Thranduil sent some of his people with us? guards, soldiers, scholars, anything?
ArPharazonV: or is it just supposed to be the 5 or so of us heading into Angmar?
VardaValar1: Indis is the scholar added to us.
VardaValar1: We are more or less scouting, slipping in to see what we can do.
ArPharazonV: hmhm
karakedi25: yes, I don't see it as a military expedition
VardaValar1: We are going to have to expect fighting.
ArPharazonV: in that case, I'm wondering about the ambush coming up... there's sure to be some orcs (maybe the really fast ones, on wargs) with them... how many could we reasonably handle without any casualties?
VardaValar1: That's different. We're still in Mirkwood, and there are people all along the path in spots.
ArPharazonV: so we can expect aid at that point?
VardaValar1: Guards, patrols watching out.
VardaValar1: Maybe, maybe not.
VardaValar1: We could roll dice or just write it in, but it would be nice if we could be heroes and handle it. Maybe be smart.
ArPharazonV: perhaps
karakedi25: I'd hope we could do it tactically rather than by sheer force of arms
ArPharazonV: we'll see
VardaValar1: We tend to fight, if you'll remember from your reading.
ArPharazonV: the force we're up against will be mostly creatures of the wild again, squirrels, spiders, whatever they can drag out of the local neighbourhood
karakedi25: I don't mean tactical in the lotro sense, nor do I mean no fighting...
ArPharazonV: but I would expect some wolves, orcs, something a bit heavier than small beasts
VardaValar1: Squirrels don't fight, normally. That's a bit AU. :-)
ArPharazonV: of course :-)
karakedi25: but if outnumbered, doing something smart
ArPharazonV: I've been fleshing out some of the future Calaron-stuff in my mind, and the ambush is coming quite near so I thought I'd consider some of the specifics
karakedi25: wolves, small orc parties, we can handle with mostly force of arms...
karakedi25: but in a major pinch, we would want strategy and tactics
VardaValar1: This is a group set up with Calaron's lot, probably not stupid.
karakedi25: of course not, and I'd hope to have that show in our story
VardaValar1: Calion may be a key player there.
ArPharazonV: it'd have to be a quickly set up ambush, Calaron may have a head start but he won't have much time to gather forces
VardaValar1: Calion may have the ability to reach Calaron.
karakedi25: wait...who's ambushing whom?
ArPharazonV: so why I'm thinking, a few fast orcs on wolves or something, plus whatever wild animals can be found near the ambush location or gathered along the way
ArPharazonV: Calaron will ambush Calion :-)
karakedi25: ah
VardaValar1: Calion is one of us.
karakedi25: so it has to be done with no kinslaying
VardaValar1: If Calaron is the only elf, that will make it easier.
ArPharazonV: Calaron is Calion's brother, but being mostly controlled(possessed) by a spirit or minion of Sauron from the north
ArPharazonV: and I wish we could use slashes in this chat ;-)
VardaValar1: how about a spirit minion. :-)
ArPharazonV: and being possessed as such, now has a reasonable rank amongst the enemy's forces in the area
ArPharazonV: as we will notice more often ;-)
VardaValar1: He's kind of like one of the barrow wights, possessing Calaron instead of a mummy.
ArPharazonV: indeed! nice analogy
VardaValar1: Calaron, as an elf, will be fighting back, especially if given a reason.
VardaValar1: He's going to be ticked off after having been forced to injure his girlfriend.
ArPharazonV: his resistance will lessen over time though, I even pictured a scene of him falling into a deep blackness, seeing what his body is doing but hardly able to do anything about it....
VardaValar1: Calion might be injured slightly, enough to get Calaron's ire up and fight the possessor.
ArPharazonV: would be fun to describe in a post
karakedi25: then his health will be at risk too
VardaValar1: Are you setting it up so we have to do a kinslaying?
ArPharazonV: I'm not
VardaValar1: ok
ArPharazonV: Calaron will survive, as will the rest of us...
karakedi25: yes, we need to avoid that, please
VardaValar1: *spider has Calaron munchies*
ArPharazonV: well, for now, I have an interesting scene waiting at Angmar which might need some permission ;-)
ArPharazonV: Calaron's not going to be killed, and he's not going to actually break the possession just yet
VardaValar1: An escape
ArPharazonV: he'll retreat at some point to the northwest and we probably won't see him again until Angmar
VardaValar1: That works
VardaValar1: We have to get him to retreat.
VardaValar1: He was rushed before ready, not strong enough to take us on yet.
ArPharazonV: bingo
ArPharazonV: imagine the fun we'll have when he reaches Angmar before us
VardaValar1: We knock off most of the adds, he retreats.
ArPharazonV: maybe gets his hands on the staff :-)
VardaValar1: *shoots staff*
ArPharazonV: we'll have a serious welcome party at some point!
VardaValar1: Sounds like we have a plot. :-)
VardaValar1: Shall we call it a night then?
karakedi25: if you wish
ArPharazonV: sure
ArPharazonV: doing some browsing, but going to bed afterwards anyway
VardaValar1: We have a lack of people to post right now.
karakedi25: sleep well
VardaValar1: Namarie. I need to make supper.
karakedi25: namarie
ArPharazonV: Enjoy the meal!
ArPharazonV: Namarie
VardaValar1 has left the room.
karakedi25: goodnight all
karakedi25 has left the room.
FladrifV: *waves namarie all*
ArPharazonV: namarie
luthienathariel: oh namarie :-)
FladrifV has left the room.
ArPharazonV: saving and sending transcript