ArPharazonV: anyway, I don't play LotRO, so I shouldn't interfere with it anyway, it's just a suggestion
Eonwe Valar: Either way, it wouldn't hurt to push for the business part of the meeting to get done in approx 30 minutes most weeks :}
always seems to go an hour in business, then we are not much willing to
spend time on Tolkien which should be our main section.
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
VardaValar1: We are now one hour into the meeting.
Eonwe Valar: Gaming seems to be the biggest part. Would have to tighten the most there methinks.
Eonwe Valar: Any other comments or ideas? If not, we'll move on.
Eonwe Valar: ok.
Eonwe Valar: Then any other gaming news before we move to Tolkien?
Eonwe Valar: Anyone play anything besides WoW or LotRO they'd like to mention?
Chugin Chub: i am on xbox
Chugin Chub: i played deadspace
and beat it on normal this past week
Eonwe Valar: Congrats :}
Chugin Chub: the ending made me jump a bit though *unexpected*
Eonwe Valar: I don't get online with my XBox 360
. Something about spending $100 for a network adaptor doesn't appeal to me :}
Eonwe Valar: Ooh, don't spoil it then. Someone else might be playing it or might play it in the future :}
Chugin Chub: yoou dont need a netwrk adaptor though . ..
Chugin Chub: just a direct connect or router ^_^
Eonwe Valar: If you're not within a decent distance of your router, you do :}
Chugin Chub: i got a wireless thing going myself though
. Pallando's still kicking around. Trying to strike up conversations with people.
Have to keep kicking myself that Pallando's not a RP character (after 2
years as playing in a RP alliance it's actually hard to let myself
mention rl in local chat..)
Chugin Chub: and was thinking of getting the new ghostbusters game
that came out. . .
Eonwe Valar: Cool :}
VardaValar1: Always an interesting trick to find rp ways of saying rl things. : )
Eonwe Valar: hehe :}
Eonwe Valar: Ok, ladies and gents, shall we kick it over to Tolkien now?
Eonwe Valar: (By the way, feel free to play a game and write a review of it for the Games Page :})
Eonwe Valar: Tolkien:
[RP, Arien, Ar-Pharazon, Eomer, Eonwe the Maia
Eonwe Valar: We have a quick mention and then on to the Tolkien topic.
Eonwe Valar: The RP story Scouting Ahead, Part 6:
Return to Mirkwood is going.
Eonwe Valar: Er, that would be "The Road to Rivendell,"
ArPharazonV: hmm, yes, I'm trying to make sense out of the current setting but that can wait until we've dealt with the real topic
Eonwe Valar: http://valarguild.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=MEORP
for a link to the forum in which it is held. Feel free to read the story so far.
Eonwe Valar: Now for the Tolkien topic.
Eonwe Valar: Varda, your floor once again :}
VardaValar1: Each of us is named for a particular character. How does that character show something about what traits Tolkien values?
VardaValar1: We could start alphabetically with those not afk, and work down.
AriehnV: that would mean i kick off?
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: Aye : )
is a Maia known to have cared for the Golden Tree in Aman and she was very dedicated to the task.
VardaValar1: (We will all kick ourselves later for forgetting to mention something.)
AriehnV: I think it might have been a positive trait of the fire that burnt in her spirit .. she is a fire spirit if i remember right.
AriehnV: Dedication, zeal, dutifulness , willingness to fulfill a task
AriehnV: She has those traits and i think other characters of Tolkien show those too
AriehnV: She resisted Evil as well by rejecting Sauron who was wanting her as lover
AriehnV: Probably he was after her power i guess
Eonwe Valar: Hmm, going to have to remind me where that was, Arien :}
AriehnV: or looking for a way of diminishing the light
AriehnV: or swallow it up or prevent it from being spread who knows
Eonwe Valar: I remember the Melkor/Varda angle, but don't recall a Sauron/Arien one.
AriehnV: the story of Sauron chasing after Arien is somewhere in the Silmarillion i think but Luthien knows that story than i do
AriehnV: shame she is not here :-(]
Eonwe Valar: Sounds like something TIlion would do :}
ArPharazonV: it does sound oddly familiar but not sure about the source
ArPharazonV: maybe it was in the History
Eonwe Valar: Sil does say Arien was a spirit of fire melkor did not seduce to his service.
Eonwe Valar: Please continue unless you're done :}
AriehnV: thats true he tried to seduce her but she refused to follow that
AriehnV: sorry i was looking in the encyclopedia about the sauron / arien story
Eonwe Valar: Ah
AriehnV: hmm the poor lass has no own article :-(
AriehnV: think i have to change that
Eonwe Valar: seduce in the sense of tempt with promises of power in this case.
VardaValar1: Yes she does.
VardaValar1: I am looking at it.
VardaValar1: Where are you looking for it?
AriehnV: ah got it ok found it Varda
VardaValar1: For others having a problem, it's under Maiar. It can also be found by typing Arien in the Search.
AriehnV: anyway i ll check that story out Eonwe but i think thats the traits you asked for
VardaValar1: Thank you, Arien.
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}
, your turn.
ArPharazonV: Right. Ar-Pharazon. King of Numenor.
luthienathariel has entered the room.
tricky one, that... Tolkien portrayed him mostly as a dark character,
and while he does have some traits that he sought to display in his
work, I doubt he valued them much
VardaValar1: (Seduce in the old term often meant bend to one's will by words and gifts. Not the way currently used so much.)
ArPharazonV: alternating "he" with both Pharazon and Tolkien, you understand
VardaValar1: Tolkien showed what he valued by showing what he considered to be wrong, as well.
VardaValar1: He shows that biting the hand of one who cares about them and tries to help them is not a good thing.
ArPharazonV: True. In that case, Pharazon showed pride that led to his downfall, and believed that there should not be much out of his reach
VardaValar1: Aye, it's a comment on excessive pride and the desire to outlive one's time.
in a repetition of the biblical first sin, his kingdom had all it had
because of the generosity of the Valar, but they were not happy with
the one limitation given to them
VardaValar1: At first he did well, saving many people in Middle-earth from Sauron's attack.
ArPharazonV: Pharazon was the culmination of that unhappiness, and broke the ban... and it meant the end of him and his kingdom
ArPharazonV: and yes, he did well
though it was more out of pride than compassion that he did so, for he
did not agree with Sauron's claim to be the more powerful king
ArPharazonV: and that was a primary reason for his attack
luthienathariel has left the room.
but though his intentions were less than holy, he did for a while
deprive Sauron of Middle-earth, ultimately giving Elendil and his sons
the time to set up marvelous kingdoms before Sauron was able to gather
his strength again after the Fall
while a proud man, Pharazon was loyal to his family (or his father at
least) and lived according to the mentality of his more recent
forefathers, and acted on behalf of the majority of his people (or at
least he was convinced so)
ArPharazonV: that can be seen as a trait to value
VardaValar1: Well said
karakedi25: Though he was not so kind to the one who should have been Tar-Miriel.
Eonwe Valar: That he'd been free with the wealth he brought from Middle-Earth certainly helped to win the heart of the people.
also, in both the journey to Middle-earth and Valinor, he did not
remain behind to guide his troops as a cowardly general but travelled
with them: landing on the shores of Middle-Earth with his forces, as
well as being among the first to land on Valinor
karakedi25: How do you think his treatment of her would fit in with Tolkien's values?
VardaValar1: Miriel was the key to power for Phar, rather than beloved.
karakedi25: exactly--kind of limits his virtue as a family man
there are stories that they were in love, some versions that Miriel
joined Pharazon out of free will, and I try to adhere to these
versions, though they're not as generally accepted :-)
VardaValar1: Phar only mentions loyalty to his father, that is pretty limited, but something.
Eonwe Valar: Seems Ar-Pharazon didn't live by the wisdom of rulers espoused by Denethor either, hehe.
Eonwe Valar: Can you tell us which books those stories are in for later reference, Phar? :}
Eonwe Valar: I may want to flip through those.
ArPharazonV: part 12 of the History of Middle-earth
unless I'm mistaken
Eonwe Valar: Thanks.
ArPharazonV: somewhere among the sections on the second age timeline etc
so yeah, even in his old age Pharazon was among his soldiers, which I
see as a good trait.. he seems to have been a man of formidable power
in combat... I wouldn't exactly compare him to Fingolfin in battle
prowess and leadership, but he was no Denethor either
prior to his kingship he had already led succesful campaigns throughout
the west of Middle-Earth, and made his people proud of him
VardaValar1: Denethor: wore mail under his robes, kept a sword.
ArPharazonV: and yet in the war of the ring, did we see him come out to do battle? :-)
karakedi25: Denethor at one time was a valiant leader, but he was old and much weakened by use of the palantir with Sauron
karakedi25: It had to show considerable strength of will to have been able to contend with the mind of Sauron over the years
true, I'm sure Denethor had his good years as well, but in relative
body age I think he was younger than Pharazon by the time of the
Eonwe Valar: His
"wisdom of leaders" was that a wise leader would not come forth except
at the last need or to claim victory, spending even his only sons.
Eonwe Valar: *Him* being Denethor.
VardaValar1: Cut off the head, it makes it hard for the plan to unfold.
ArPharazonV: it is not a policy I believe Pharazon shared, though we only have little material available on that
of course one could argue that the only reason he joined his men on the
shores of Aman was to claim victory personally, but I hope there was
more to it than that
Eonwe Valar: Seeing as he had not much time left, he had to claim victory personally.
so yes, loyalty to his elders and the way he was raised, campaigns
against the forces of evil (even though not with the right intentions),
willing to do what he thought the people needed best (and what most of
the people believed was best at the time as well), and, as far as I can
tell, courage in battle from his youth to the end of his life...
I believe these can be traits to be valued highly, though they did not
turn out well in the end, and were used against the wrong side....
ArPharazonV: if we had lived in that time, we might have been more appreciative of it
Eonwe Valar: Unless we followed Amandil :}
VardaValar1: I would have been happy to drop him in a deep hole. : )
karakedi25: you would clearly have been one of the 'Faithful'
ArPharazonV: true, Eonwe :-) but not many of those were left in Numenor by then, even including the ones sacrificed by Sauron
Eonwe Valar: Aye, there were probably more in Middle-Earth by that time.
Eonwe Valar: So, next person? :}
ArPharazonV: *nod* I think I've had my say
, you're next. : )
IWF519: well, Eomer was very dedicated to his sister and uncle.
IWF519: But he was not so blindly loyal, thus he was able to see through Grima's lies
I believe that ,through him, Tolkien was trying to express that you
must sometimes be outcast (or jailed) to stand up for your beliefs
VardaValar1: He was dedicated to his people as well.
VardaValar1: That was yet another way Eomer showed bravery. He stood up for what was right despite what could happen to him.
IWF519: he made a sacrifice ,
IWF519: he was also quite tenacious, as depicted in his encounter with the Three Hunters
IWF519: Tolkien gave him some wisdom as well, or more insight as to not make him a hot tempered character
VardaValar1: He also had compassion, loaning his people's greatest treasures to the Three Hunters whose friends he might have just killed.
IWF519: So Tolkien imbued him with loyalty, compassion and insight. As well as some tenacity on the battle field
IWF519: For these reasons he is my namesake, and favorite character
VardaValar1: And he aided Aragorn after the Reunited Kingdom was formed. They went to battle together.
IWF519: He was quite capable to rule his lands after the war of the ring, and I think that about does it for me :-)
VardaValar1: Thank you, Eomer. : )
Eonwe Valar: I wonder where he could be.. j/k:}
VardaValar1: Take a form and we'll see. : )
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: Funny how bodiless we all are here, and yet we are present very strongly. : )
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: Eonwė is leader of the Armies of the Valar.
Eonwe Valar: He's the mightiest in arms in all of Arda.
Eonwe Valar: And he's quite obviously a Maia of Manwė :}
Eonwe Valar: He knows how to lead and how to obey, or he could not be in such a position.
Eonwe Valar: His treatment of the Maedhros and Maglor as they tried to steal the Silmarilli after the War of Wrath shows he has compassion.
Eonwe Valar: *remove "the" before Maedhros.
Eonwe Valar: His treatment of Sauron shows he knows what is within his authority and won't try to overstep it.
Eonwe Valar: I
could throw in some stuff from back when he was FIonwė, son of Manwė
and Varda, but for brevity's sake I'll say that he was overal a
chivalrous and virtuous knightly character.
ArPharazonV: he knows his position in the world, that's to be admired :-)
Eonwe Valar: A Paladin, if you will *cough* :}
AriehnV: i know my position in the next ten miniutes where i should be lol
Eonwe Valar: hehe
VardaValar1: Feel free to enjoy the transcript, Arien. : )
AriehnV: will do :-)
Eonwe Valar: Next person's turn :}
VardaValar1: Finrod's next
AriehnV: have fun now and .. fight .. er talk welll ;-)
ArPharazonV: Namarie sunny!
Eonwe Valar: Take care Arien :}
AriehnV: Namarie :-)
AriehnV has left the room.
VardaValar1: Fight and talk, that's the Valar way. And chief cause of our occasional loss of body. ;-)
ArPharazonV: probably also the main reasons why you sometimes take bodies in the first place :-)
TH0R0NGIL: My turn for what? Sorry... I wasn't paying attention
VardaValar1: We are telling what traits that Tolkien was trying to show admiration or dislike of in the characters for which we are named.
Chugin Chub: o before r . . . but it we are on f ^_^
VardaValar1: We are to Finrod, and may have to stop for the night after you.
Eonwe Valar: Could pick up next week if we have interest :}
TH0R0NGIL: Erm....good question........
TH0R0NGIL: I would have to think about it to answer it properly
VardaValar1: We can stop now and let you ponder it during the week.
VardaValar1: Maybe you'll be able to get us started on the subject again next time. You don't have to tell it all alone.
TH0R0NGIL: I will attempt to remember to think about it, lol
TH0R0NGIL: although I expect to be a bit busy with work this week
TH0R0NGIL: Feel free to jog my memory throughout the week if you like
VardaValar1: It should be fun. Everyone try hitting the indices for bits on your character.
VardaValar1: I think you'll all find it especially interesting, even if you don't get to talk about it.
VardaValar1: Might even get inspired to do an article or poem later. : )
Eonwe Valar: :}
Chugin Chub: *hears dinner bell ringing in my head* stops drooling and says his good byes =-O
Eonwe Valar: Bon apetit :}
Chugin Chub: indeed ^_^
VardaValar1: Pallando had to go get his hair cut. : )
karakedi25: this was one of the best topics yet! (IMHO)
Eonwe Valar: Aye, it was a fun one :}
ArPharazonV: enjoy, ...Thror, right?
Chugin Chub: and good bye/ till next time all that good stuff
Eonwe Valar: Take care Thror :}
Chugin Chub: yes arphara ^_^
Chugin Chub: *gives his beard a tug before heading off*
Chugin Chub has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Ok guys, let's call the meeting here and let everyone go about his or her business :}
Eonwe Valar: *winds up*
Eonwe Valar: *Bangs gavel*
Eonwe Valar: Meeting Adjourned until next week :}
Eonwe Valar: Aftermeeting
to proceed from here :}
VardaValar1: Hobbtiy eating time!
VardaValar1: Feast like Hobbits or sleep. : )
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: Or both :}
Eonwe Valar: But not at the same time :}
Eonwe Valar: Feast, then sleep, or you'll find it hard to feast while sleeping :}
ArPharazonV: can feast in the morning though :-)
Eonwe Valar: That too :}
ArPharazonV: and since I'm in the appropriate chapter now, do like Bombur.... and feast in your dreams ;-)
Eonwe Valar: hehe
Eonwe Valar: I must go afk for a while.
VardaValar1: Now that's a diet plan.
Eonwe Valar: In case you're gone when I get back, take care, good night, sleep well, and have fun :}
ArPharazonV: namarie Eonwe :-)
karakedi25: goodnight, Eonwe
TH0R0NGIL has left the room.
VardaValar1: Namarie, also. At least afk for a bit.
IWF519: namarie all, headed out
ArPharazonV: namarie all who leave :-)
IWF519 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: I'll be saving soon then
VardaValar1 has left the room.
karakedi25 has left the room.
fladrifv has left the room.
ArPharazonV: saving and sending transcript