Valar Guild

July 19, 2009 Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5); (GMT = 22:00?)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by: 
Ar-Pharazon and Varda

Attending: (12)
    AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Eomer-(V)/IWF519, Eonwe Valar (presiding), Finrod-(V)/TH0R0NGIL, fladrifv, Indis-(V)/karakedi25, Lungorthin-(Valar)/sauronjag, luthienathariel, pallandovalar, Thror-(V)/Chugin Chub, VardaValar1

Meeting begins
Membership happenings:
    Ar-Pharazon will be starting a week of vacation with no internet.
    Khamul-(T): trying to join as a writer, Tolkien-only.
    Arien's mom is back home from the hospital.
    Links page:
       Webcomics addition
    Games Site rebuild progress now showing.
        General: patch 3.2
        Servers for Valar branches:
            Argent Dawn
       Other servers with members, be sure to also make the friend channel to find each other:
             Thunderhoof: Thror-(V)
             Shattered Hand: Gwaihir-(Valar) much less now.
             several: Eomer-(V)
    Middle-earth mod for Diablo 2 expansion
    Diablo 3
    LotRO: official server Landroval
    Eve Online
   Each of us is named for a particular character. How does that character show something about what traits Tolkien values?
    Eonwe: Maia version given this time. Vala version may be given at the next meeting.

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
Chugin Chub has entered the room.
sauronjag has entered the room.
TH0R0NGIL has entered the room.
Chugin Chub: hello~ ^_^
sauronjag: aiya
Eonwe Valar: Heya Thror and Lungorthin. Long time no see for both of you :}
karakedi25 has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
TH0R0NGIL: Hello folks
Chugin Chub: indeed :P
sauronjag: true :-)
karakedi25: aiya!
ArPharazonV: Chugin Chub... name in vague memory...
ArPharazonV: but still in buddylist, so that works
Chugin Chub: the name was made back when i was still in middle school XD
Eonwe Valar: Heya to Finrod as well :}
fladrifv has entered the room.
TH0R0NGIL: Hi Eonwe
Eonwe Valar: Three faces I haven't seen in a while ;}
Eonwe Valar: How are you three doing?
TH0R0NGIL: I'm doing great
fladrifv: Aiya
TH0R0NGIL: haven't used AIM in a while, lol
ArPharazonV: just finished our Ulduar-raid, so logging out of WoW and diverting all my attention here!
ArPharazonV: finished Hodir and Freya, so we'll have all Tuesday for Thorim... maybe we can get him down this time ;-)
Chugin Chub: havent played wow for a while now V_V though my friend wants me to get back on =o
Eonwe Valar: :}
ArPharazonV: it just pulls you back...
ArPharazonV: you can try to escape but you'll always feel a slight tug somewhere, leading back to the game....
Chugin Chub: indeed >_> though all my characters are low level . . .
Eonwe Valar: Lothar's not quite as bustling as it was, but I still keep a light on for guild members who want to hang out with other Tolkien fans :}
Eonwe Valar: It's not bustling right now, anyway. Can't rule out future turns of events :}
ArPharazonV: I've put out the call in a few channels for rogues to farm me 1400 junkboxes for Ravenholdt reputation, paying 7000g, but not many people interested in wasting a few hours grinding :-)
ArPharazonV: I wonder if Arien has a rogue available *grin*
Chugin Chub: what ever happend to turgon? i use to game with him alot T^T
ArPharazonV: named Menelvagor now, since his promotion
Eonwe Valar: Hmm, if it's been long enough, the Turgon you might remember is now Menelvagor.
ArPharazonV: still around, though doesn't appear in meetings as much as we'd like
Eonwe Valar: We've got a new Turgon since then.
Chugin Chub: oh? i see . . . did a lot of d2 back in the day him and i :-)
ArPharazonV: I've always thought Turgon sounds so Dwarvish...
ArPharazonV: the fact that I read the Book of Lost Tales before the Silmarillion didn't help, he was still a fairy and a gnome back then ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Hehe
Eonwe Valar: Ok, let's go ahead and begin the meeting.
Eonwe Valar: Everyone say "Aiya" for the roll :}
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
Chugin Chub: Aiya
karakedi25: aiya!
ArPharazonV: but I'm first in the room, so my transcript should show everyone entering the room
Eonwe Valar: OK.
TH0R0NGIL: aiya
Eonwe Valar: Aiya too :}
Eonwe Valar: 5/8 said Aiya. Not bad I suppose :}
Eonwe Valar: Guess the other three are busy :}
AriehnV has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiyarien!
ArPharazonV: hmm, that was an even worse pun than Namarien
AriehnV: Aiyar pharazon
Eonwe Valar: Heya Arien :} Just in time to catch the beginning of the meeting :}

Eonwe Valar: Elen Sila Lumenn Omentielvo!
AriehnV: lol
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Membership:
VardaValar1: Aiya :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: Good to see all of you here :}
Chugin Chub: Aiya
AriehnV: Aiya :-)
TH0R0NGIL: Hey Varda!
karakedi25: aiya Varda
Eonwe Valar: Any membership news from you guys? :}
ArPharazonV: well
ArPharazonV: don't know if I said this last week, but I'll be going on vacation for a week from the 31st of July
ArPharazonV: so I'll miss just about exactly definitely 1 meeting
ArPharazonV: since we have no internetz there
ArPharazonV: which means... I'll be there for next meeting, but miss the one after that, I think
Eonwe Valar: NP Phar. But you better have fun :}
ArPharazonV: I will!
ArPharazonV: I'll try to survive the WoW-withdrawal ;-) oh well, I've had worse breaks than a week
Eonwe Valar: Hehe
Eonwe Valar: Any other Member news?
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: We have a writer trying to join us as Khamul-(T)
fladrifv: that is good news
Eonwe Valar: Aye, it is :}
Eonwe Valar: Much luck with his joining :}
Eonwe Valar: Ok, on to Web:
IWF519 has entered the room.
IWF519: hello
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Chugin Chub: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: Hey Eomer :}
ArPharazonV: note says... Eomer, right
IWF519: yes, Eomer
AriehnV: aye on the privat field .. my mother is at home again with her crutches and they were out eating tonight and good evening Eomer L(
Eonwe Valar: Varda has a web report, so her floor.
AriehnV: :-)
Eonwe Valar: Sorry to hear that Arien.
VardaValar1: Welcome home to Arien's mom!
Eonwe Valar: Well, the home again part is good :}
karakedi25: hiya Eomer. This is Indis
ArPharazonV: the eating out part can be considered good :-)

VardaValar1: Links page should now have working "top" links. Tell me when such things are bad, please folks.
VardaValar1: New section added in the Links for webcomics, some added.
VardaValar1: Feel free to email me with the urls of your recommended webcomics. :-)
sauronjag: brb
ArPharazonV: ...any particular topic for the webcomics? Tolkien I assume? because otherwise... I've got like 30 I read regularly
VardaValar1: Don't have to be Tolkien. But if they are, mention it.
VardaValar1: We might put Tolkien webcomic links under the Humor Site as well.
Chugin Chub: indeed i follow quite a few myself >_>
VardaValar1: The art site should now have all working links. Let me know if I missed something.
ArPharazonV: well, to start us off, I've got a Dutch webcomic about Lotr, but it broke off during Return of the King a few years ago and I'm not expecting it to finish any time soon
VardaValar1: If we have that many webcomics, I might make a link to a webcomic list instead of putting them directly on the Links page, but we'll manage. : )
ArPharazonV: all in Dutch though!
VardaValar1: Please email the list, say what language and if it's in in Tolkien. We don't have room to show all 30 here in the meeting.
Eonwe Valar: Hehe, aye. Would get to be a bit much and certainly would extend this meeting beyond reasonable time constraints :}
ArPharazonV: oh, I'm not gonna list em all at once... but I might add a few tolkien, wow-related and/or fantasy webcomic urls with the transcript when I send it
VardaValar1: That's all of my week's web news.
VardaValar1: I need a separate email for your webcomic list if you don't mind. : )
Eonwe Valar: Thanks Varda :}
ArPharazonV: bah, why 2 seperate emails ;-)
VardaValar1: I generally delete the transcript emails after putting them online. This helps me in working on different sections of the site.
ArPharazonV: ah
Eonwe Valar: Ok, on to Gaming:
Eonwe Valar: Games Page:
Eonwe Valar: The LotRO and WoW Player tables are now up again.
Eonwe Valar: The LotRO table is now sortable.
Eonwe Valar: (once again)
Eonwe Valar: The WoW player tables are not quite sortable yet, but should be soon.
Eonwe Valar: Don't forget to swing by the Games Page and make sure your gaming information is correct.
Eonwe Valar: in case you have no idea what I'm talking about :}
Eonwe Valar: The player tables should be just about the last fix since the transition to my new format, so I should be done by the GPMU after all and can start working on new stuff :}
karakedi25: just looked at it--nicely done :-)
Eonwe Valar: Glad you like it :}
IWF519: it is quite nice
Eonwe Valar: I hope it proves to be useful as well :}
Eonwe Valar: I'd like to put more info up to help our LotRo guys out too. Melkor had sent in a list of crit items and the professiosn they were used for, but that information is obsolete now.
VardaValar1: Interesting. LotRO questing is now a link to that Forum section.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, I linked it straight to the forum.
VardaValar1: Under LotRO General, I added a section on Coins and one on Mirror runs.
Eonwe Valar: If anyone would like to compile a new list of crit items for me to put up into a new table, they're welcome to
VardaValar1: If we put the raw info in the forum, would that help with making your table>
VardaValar1: ?
Eonwe Valar: If the data is arranged legibly enough, that could work, aye.

Eonwe Valar: On to the rest of gaming news:
Eonwe Valar: WoW:
Eonwe Valar: 3.2 Patch is partially downloadable right now, if you want to get ahead of the curve.
Eonwe Valar: The more you get now, they less you have to get on patch day, or at least that's the theory :}
ArPharazonV: on patch day it usually downloads much much faster though :-)
Eonwe Valar: Lothar: I've been over there, still working for my Turtle, and almost exalted with the Kirin Tor :}
Eonwe Valar: Uldaman: Seems most of the action was there this week :}
VardaValar1: Eowyn, Fangorn, Sauron, Bilbo, Elwing, and myself were playing on Uldaman server as Horde characters.
IWF519: i should mention i bought WoW recently [Eomer-V]
VardaValar1: This group laughlingly questions being called the secondary server group.
VardaValar1: But you opted to play elsewhere than our servers, as I understand it?
VardaValar1: No problem with that, by the way, but you might want to drop a level one on ours to say hi. :-)
IWF519: not entirely,
VardaValar1: Use /join Valar
VardaValar1: Friend channel.
IWF519: i have people all over the game wanting me on their server
IWF519: uldaman is it?
VardaValar1: Lothar is Alliance, Uldaman server is Horde.
VardaValar1: Our Horde group is currently most active, the other was for a long time.
IWF519: pffft who wants to play alliance anyways
fladrifv: me
fladrifv: :-)
VardaValar1: Will we still be seeing you much on LotRO? Sounds as if you are about to be slurped up into WoW.
Chugin Chub: *loves the cow people*
VardaValar1: We still play Alliance as well, same people.
IWF519: im still gonna play LoTR
Eonwe Valar: I play Alliance because I've been a Paladin since Week 1 :}
Eonwe Valar: And because I prefer Alliance, hehe.
Eonwe Valar: (I also have an orc on Uldaman though :})
Chugin Chub: i have a couple different characters on thunderhoof
IWF519: im working on achieving a blance between the 2
sauronjag: i started playing the old ME mod for d2x recently :-) having trouble remembering all the unique features about the game though (just rediscovered /players x) and most of the websites are broken including the source - v&k host site. planning on playing on open soon with a few friends if any are interested
VardaValar1: If we all make a Valar friend channel on each server we are in, we may be able to catch each other by surprise. : )
Chugin Chub: indeed varda :P
Eonwe Valar: I still pop into the D2 ME mod every now and then.
AriehnV: oh i play a Belf pali Eonwe :-) but i miss my Finduilasse :-(
Chugin Chub: cant wait for d3 btw. . .
Eonwe Valar: Players x is actually a Blizzard thing.
VardaValar1: Do we still have any working links that Lungorthin can use, Eonwe?
Eonwe Valar: I tried giving him one to a page by Natalya/Eowyn of the Phrozen Forums, but that was the download page. I'm going to have to dig for the other one I thought was linked from there.
sauronjag: Eonwe shared the phrozen keep discussion board and another german download mirror
sauronjag: aye :-)
sauronjag: I am mainly just looking for unique info about hte mod (ie abilities like /players) and a skills tree
sauronjag: I also forgot, but is tehre any way to respec skills?
Eonwe Valar: You can find alot of that in the readme.
Eonwe Valar: No, there's not.
Eonwe Valar: Not officially sanctioned by blizzard.
sauronjag: Interesting. thank you blizzard making us remake characters instead of giving us an easy option to respec :-)
sauronjag: I didn't see the readme's before, that's super helpful btw
Eonwe Valar: hehe
Chugin Chub: never took that long to get a characters lv up though . . . in the game itself though not sure about the mod. . .
sauronjag: it's a lot slower in the ME mod
sauronjag: the game is more "balanced"
Eonwe Valar: Just watch out for the first level. Something weird at the first level makes it hard to kill stuff, but once you get that second level, everything goes to normal.
sauronjag: aye
Eonwe Valar: And *white* gems and rings are a feature :}
sauronjag: i loved spending 600 javelins on a hero/subset at lvl 1
Eonwe Valar: I'll try to dig up that other site for you after the business part of the meeting, Lungorthin.
Eonwe Valar: I know I've got the url somewhere.
sauronjag: okay Eonwe, much appreciated as always
Eonwe Valar: I believe it's time for LotRO news now:
Eonwe Valar: Varda's floor :}
VardaValar1: We did our usual Monday Nornuan turtle raid with the Lhee group, went off successfully.
pallandovalar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: We are looking for a day that our own people can show up in enough numbers to do our own run as the second run of the week.
VardaValar1: The reset is Monday and Thursday.
Chugin Chub: aiya palla
VardaValar1: We tried Thursday but not many people showed.
VardaValar1: So we are looking for a better day.
karakedi25: would have to be between Thurs and Sun, if we do the Monday turtle
VardaValar1: We are still working on gearing our mains
VardaValar1: Right, Indis. Since the next reset is on Monday.
VardaValar1: I intend to continue the Monday turtle on Fainan.
ArPharazonV: could do it on Sunday after the meeting, while you already have a bunch of people online?
VardaValar1: That would mean I would have to be very tight about the meeting. Not sure that is fair to the overall group.
Eonwe Valar: Saturday seems to be a busy day too?
Eonwe Valar: I mean LotRO-wise we have had several people on in the past.
ArPharazonV: well, it's still afternoon isn't it? for you? can't you do it sunday evening? or are all your raids in the afternoon?
karakedi25: no usually in the evening
ArPharazonV: you often leave for dinner anyway, might as well do the raid after
ArPharazonV: anyway, I don't play LotRO, so I shouldn't interfere with it anyway, it's just a suggestion
Eonwe Valar: Either way, it wouldn't hurt to push for the business part of the meeting to get done in approx 30 minutes most weeks :}
VardaValar1: It always seems to go an hour in business, then we are not much willing to spend time on Tolkien which should be our main section.
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
VardaValar1: We are now one hour into the meeting.
Eonwe Valar: Gaming seems to be the biggest part. Would have to tighten the most there methinks.
Eonwe Valar: Any other comments or ideas? If not, we'll move on.
Eonwe Valar: ok.
Eonwe Valar: Then any other gaming news before we move to Tolkien?
Eonwe Valar: Anyone play anything besides WoW or LotRO they'd like to mention?
Chugin Chub: i am on xbox alot :-P
Chugin Chub: i played deadspace and beat it on normal this past week
Eonwe Valar: Congrats :}
Chugin Chub: the ending made me jump a bit though *unexpected*
Eonwe Valar: I don't get online with my XBox 360. Something about spending $100 for a network adaptor doesn't appeal to me :}
Eonwe Valar: Ooh, don't spoil it then. Someone else might be playing it or might play it in the future :}
VardaValar1: In-teresting.
Chugin Chub: yoou dont need a netwrk adaptor though . ..
Chugin Chub: just a direct connect or router ^_^
Eonwe Valar: If you're not within a decent distance of your router, you do :}
Chugin Chub: i got a wireless thing going myself though
pallandovalar: Eve. Pallando's still kicking around. Trying to strike up conversations with people.
AriehnV: A
pallandovalar: Have to keep kicking myself that Pallando's not a RP character (after 2 years as playing in a RP alliance it's actually hard to let myself mention rl in local chat..)
Chugin Chub: and was thinking of getting the new ghostbusters game that came out. . .
Eonwe Valar: Cool :}
VardaValar1: Always an interesting trick to find rp ways of saying rl things. : )
Eonwe Valar: hehe :}
Eonwe Valar: Ok, ladies and gents, shall we kick it over to Tolkien now?
Eonwe Valar: (By the way, feel free to play a game and write a review of it for the Games Page :})

Eonwe Valar: Tolkien:
[RP, Arien, Ar-Pharazon, Eomer, Eonwe the Maia]

Eonwe Valar: We have a quick mention and then on to the Tolkien topic.
Eonwe Valar: The RP story Scouting Ahead, Part 6: Return to Mirkwood is going.
Eonwe Valar: Er, that would be "The Road to Rivendell," excuse me....
ArPharazonV: hmm, yes, I'm trying to make sense out of the current setting but that can wait until we've dealt with the real topic
Eonwe Valar: for a link to the forum in which it is held. Feel free to read the story so far.

Eonwe Valar: Now for the Tolkien topic.
Eonwe Valar: Varda, your floor once again :}
VardaValar1: Each of us is named for a particular character. How does that character show something about what traits Tolkien values?
VardaValar1: We could start alphabetically with those not afk, and work down.
AriehnV: that would mean i kick off?
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: Aye : )
AriehnV: Arien is a Maia known to have cared for the Golden Tree in Aman and she was very dedicated to the task.
VardaValar1: (We will all kick ourselves later for forgetting to mention something.)
AriehnV: I think it might have been a positive trait of the fire that burnt in her spirit .. she is a fire spirit if i remember right.
AriehnV: Dedication, zeal, dutifulness , willingness to fulfill a task
AriehnV: She has those traits and i think other characters of Tolkien show those too
AriehnV: She resisted Evil as well by rejecting Sauron who was wanting her as lover
AriehnV: Probably he was after her power i guess
Eonwe Valar: Hmm, going to have to remind me where that was, Arien :}
AriehnV: or looking for a way of diminishing the light
AriehnV: or swallow it up or prevent it from being spread who knows
Eonwe Valar: I remember the Melkor/Varda angle, but don't recall a Sauron/Arien one.
AriehnV: the story of Sauron chasing after Arien is somewhere in the Silmarillion i think but Luthien knows that story than i do
AriehnV: shame she is not here :-(]
Eonwe Valar: Sounds like something TIlion would do :}
ArPharazonV: it does sound oddly familiar but not sure about the source
ArPharazonV: maybe it was in the History
Eonwe Valar: Sil does say Arien was a spirit of fire melkor did not seduce to his service.
Eonwe Valar: Please continue unless you're done :}
AriehnV: thats true he tried to seduce her but she refused to follow that
AriehnV: sorry i was looking in the encyclopedia about the sauron / arien story
Eonwe Valar: Ah
AriehnV: hmm the poor lass has no own article :-(
AriehnV: think i have to change that
Eonwe Valar: seduce in the sense of tempt with promises of power in this case.
VardaValar1: Yes she does.
VardaValar1: I am looking at it.
VardaValar1: Where are you looking for it?
AriehnV: ah got it ok found it Varda
VardaValar1: For others having a problem, it's under Maiar. It can also be found by typing Arien in the Search.
AriehnV: anyway i ll check that story out Eonwe but i think thats the traits you asked for
VardaValar1: Thank you, Arien.
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}

VardaValar1: Ar-Pharazon, your turn.
ArPharazonV: Right. Ar-Pharazon. King of Numenor.
luthienathariel has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: tricky one, that... Tolkien portrayed him mostly as a dark character, and while he does have some traits that he sought to display in his work, I doubt he valued them much
VardaValar1: (Seduce in the old term often meant bend to one's will by words and gifts. Not the way currently used so much.)
ArPharazonV: alternating "he" with both Pharazon and Tolkien, you understand
ArPharazonV: anyway
VardaValar1: Tolkien showed what he valued by showing what he considered to be wrong, as well.
VardaValar1: He shows that biting the hand of one who cares about them and tries to help them is not a good thing.
ArPharazonV: True. In that case, Pharazon showed pride that led to his downfall, and believed that there should not be much out of his reach
VardaValar1: Aye, it's a comment on excessive pride and the desire to outlive one's time.
ArPharazonV: in a repetition of the biblical first sin, his kingdom had all it had because of the generosity of the Valar, but they were not happy with the one limitation given to them
VardaValar1: At first he did well, saving many people in Middle-earth from Sauron's attack.
ArPharazonV: Pharazon was the culmination of that unhappiness, and broke the ban... and it meant the end of him and his kingdom
ArPharazonV: and yes, he did well
ArPharazonV: though it was more out of pride than compassion that he did so, for he did not agree with Sauron's claim to be the more powerful king
ArPharazonV: and that was a primary reason for his attack
luthienathariel has left the room.
ArPharazonV: but though his intentions were less than holy, he did for a while deprive Sauron of Middle-earth, ultimately giving Elendil and his sons the time to set up marvelous kingdoms before Sauron was able to gather his strength again after the Fall
ArPharazonV: while a proud man, Pharazon was loyal to his family (or his father at least) and lived according to the mentality of his more recent forefathers, and acted on behalf of the majority of his people (or at least he was convinced so)
ArPharazonV: that can be seen as a trait to value
VardaValar1: Well said
karakedi25: Though he was not so kind to the one who should have been Tar-Miriel.
Eonwe Valar: That he'd been free with the wealth he brought from Middle-Earth certainly helped to win the heart of the people.
ArPharazonV: also, in both the journey to Middle-earth and Valinor, he did not remain behind to guide his troops as a cowardly general but travelled with them: landing on the shores of Middle-Earth with his forces, as well as being among the first to land on Valinor
karakedi25: How do you think his treatment of her would fit in with Tolkien's values?
VardaValar1: Miriel was the key to power for Phar, rather than beloved.
karakedi25: exactly--kind of limits his virtue as a family man
ArPharazonV: there are stories that they were in love, some versions that Miriel joined Pharazon out of free will, and I try to adhere to these versions, though they're not as generally accepted :-)
VardaValar1: Phar only mentions loyalty to his father, that is pretty limited, but something.
Eonwe Valar: Seems Ar-Pharazon didn't live by the wisdom of rulers espoused by Denethor either, hehe.
Eonwe Valar: Can you tell us which books those stories are in for later reference, Phar? :}
Eonwe Valar: I may want to flip through those.
ArPharazonV: part 12 of the History of Middle-earth unless I'm mistaken
Eonwe Valar: Thanks.
ArPharazonV: somewhere among the sections on the second age timeline etc
ArPharazonV: so yeah, even in his old age Pharazon was among his soldiers, which I see as a good trait.. he seems to have been a man of formidable power in combat... I wouldn't exactly compare him to Fingolfin in battle prowess and leadership, but he was no Denethor either
ArPharazonV: prior to his kingship he had already led succesful campaigns throughout the west of Middle-Earth, and made his people proud of him
VardaValar1: Denethor: wore mail under his robes, kept a sword.
ArPharazonV: and yet in the war of the ring, did we see him come out to do battle? :-)
karakedi25: Denethor at one time was a valiant leader, but he was old and much weakened by use of the palantir with Sauron
karakedi25: It had to show considerable strength of will to have been able to contend with the mind of Sauron over the years
ArPharazonV: true, I'm sure Denethor had his good years as well, but in relative body age I think he was younger than Pharazon by the time of the Valinor expedition
Eonwe Valar: His "wisdom of leaders" was that a wise leader would not come forth except at the last need or to claim victory, spending even his only sons.
Eonwe Valar: *Him* being Denethor.
ArPharazonV: correct
VardaValar1: Cut off the head, it makes it hard for the plan to unfold.
ArPharazonV: it is not a policy I believe Pharazon shared, though we only have little material available on that
ArPharazonV: of course one could argue that the only reason he joined his men on the shores of Aman was to claim victory personally, but I hope there was more to it than that
Eonwe Valar: Seeing as he had not much time left, he had to claim victory personally.
ArPharazonV: so yes, loyalty to his elders and the way he was raised, campaigns against the forces of evil (even though not with the right intentions), willing to do what he thought the people needed best (and what most of the people believed was best at the time as well), and, as far as I can tell, courage in battle from his youth to the end of his life...
ArPharazonV: I believe these can be traits to be valued highly, though they did not turn out well in the end, and were used against the wrong side....
ArPharazonV: if we had lived in that time, we might have been more appreciative of it
Eonwe Valar: Unless we followed Amandil :}
VardaValar1: I would have been happy to drop him in a deep hole. : )
karakedi25: you would clearly have been one of the 'Faithful'
ArPharazonV: true, Eonwe :-) but not many of those were left in Numenor by then, even including the ones sacrificed by Sauron
Eonwe Valar: Aye, there were probably more in Middle-Earth by that time.
Eonwe Valar: So, next person? :}
ArPharazonV: *nod* I think I've had my say

VardaValar1: Eomer, you're next. : )
IWF519: ok
IWF519: well, Eomer was very dedicated to his sister and uncle.
IWF519: But he was not so blindly loyal, thus he was able to see through Grima's lies
IWF519: I believe that ,through him, Tolkien was trying to express that you must sometimes be outcast (or jailed) to stand up for your beliefs
VardaValar1: He was dedicated to his people as well.
VardaValar1: That was yet another way Eomer showed bravery. He stood up for what was right despite what could happen to him.
IWF519: he made a sacrifice ,
IWF519: he was also quite tenacious, as depicted in his encounter with the Three Hunters
IWF519: Tolkien gave him some wisdom as well, or more insight as to not make him a hot tempered character
VardaValar1: He also had compassion, loaning his people's greatest treasures to the Three Hunters whose friends he might have just killed.
VardaValar1: Horses.
IWF519: true
IWF519: So Tolkien imbued him with loyalty, compassion and insight. As well as some tenacity on the battle field
IWF519: For these reasons he is my namesake, and favorite character
ArPharazonV: :-)
VardaValar1: And he aided Aragorn after the Reunited Kingdom was formed. They went to battle together.
IWF519: He was quite capable to rule his lands after the war of the ring, and I think that about does it for me :-)
VardaValar1: Thank you, Eomer. : )

VardaValar1: Eonwe is next.
Eonwe Valar: I wonder where he could be.. j/k:}
VardaValar1: Take a form and we'll see. : )
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: Funny how bodiless we all are here, and yet we are present very strongly. : )
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: Eonwė is leader of the Armies of the Valar.
Eonwe Valar: He's the mightiest in arms in all of Arda.
Eonwe Valar: And he's quite obviously a Maia of Manwė :}
Eonwe Valar: He knows how to lead and how to obey, or he could not be in such a position.
Eonwe Valar: His treatment of the Maedhros and Maglor as they tried to steal the Silmarilli after the War of Wrath shows he has compassion.
Eonwe Valar: *remove "the" before Maedhros.
Eonwe Valar: His treatment of Sauron shows he knows what is within his authority and won't try to overstep it.
Eonwe Valar: I could throw in some stuff from back when he was FIonwė, son of Manwė and Varda, but for brevity's sake I'll say that he was overal a chivalrous and virtuous knightly character.
ArPharazonV: he knows his position in the world, that's to be admired :-)
Eonwe Valar: A Paladin, if you will *cough* :}
VardaValar1: :-)

AriehnV: i know my position in the next ten miniutes where i should be lol
Eonwe Valar: hehe
VardaValar1: Feel free to enjoy the transcript, Arien. : )
AriehnV: will do :-)
Eonwe Valar: Next person's turn :}
VardaValar1: Finrod's next
AriehnV: have fun now and .. fight .. er talk welll ;-)
ArPharazonV: Namarie sunny!
Eonwe Valar: Take care Arien :}
AriehnV: Namarie :-)
AriehnV has left the room.
VardaValar1: Fight and talk, that's the Valar way. And chief cause of our occasional loss of body. ;-)
ArPharazonV: probably also the main reasons why you sometimes take bodies in the first place :-)
TH0R0NGIL: My turn for what? Sorry... I wasn't paying attention
VardaValar1: We are telling what traits that Tolkien was trying to show admiration or dislike of in the characters for which we are named.
Chugin Chub: o before r . . . but it we are on f ^_^
VardaValar1: We are to Finrod, and may have to stop for the night after you.
Eonwe Valar: Could pick up next week if we have interest :}
TH0R0NGIL: Erm....good question........
TH0R0NGIL: I would have to think about it to answer it properly
VardaValar1: We can stop now and let you ponder it during the week.
VardaValar1: Maybe you'll be able to get us started on the subject again next time. You don't have to tell it all alone.
TH0R0NGIL: I will attempt to remember to think about it, lol
TH0R0NGIL: although I expect to be a bit busy with work this week
TH0R0NGIL: Feel free to jog my memory throughout the week if you like
VardaValar1: *poke*
VardaValar1: It should be fun. Everyone try hitting the indices for bits on your character.
VardaValar1: I think you'll all find it especially interesting, even if you don't get to talk about it.
VardaValar1: Might even get inspired to do an article or poem later. : )
Eonwe Valar: :}
Chugin Chub: *hears dinner bell ringing in my head* stops drooling and says his good byes =-O
Eonwe Valar: Bon apetit :}
Chugin Chub: indeed ^_^
VardaValar1: Pallando had to go get his hair cut. : )
karakedi25: this was one of the best topics yet! (IMHO)
Eonwe Valar: Aye, it was a fun one :}
ArPharazonV: enjoy, ...Thror, right?
Chugin Chub: and good bye/ till next time all that good stuff
Eonwe Valar: Take care Thror :}
Chugin Chub: yes arphara ^_^
Chugin Chub: *gives his beard a tug before heading off*
Chugin Chub has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Ok guys, let's call the meeting here and let everyone go about his or her business :}
Eonwe Valar: *winds up*
Eonwe Valar: *Bangs gavel*
Eonwe Valar: Meeting Adjourned until next week :}

Eonwe Valar: Aftermeeting to proceed from here :}
VardaValar1: Hobbtiy eating time!
VardaValar1: Feast like Hobbits or sleep. : )
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: Or both :}
Eonwe Valar: But not at the same time :}
Eonwe Valar: Feast, then sleep, or you'll find it hard to feast while sleeping :}
ArPharazonV: can feast in the morning though :-)
Eonwe Valar: That too :}
ArPharazonV: and since I'm in the appropriate chapter now, do like Bombur.... and feast in your dreams ;-)
Eonwe Valar: hehe
Eonwe Valar: I must go afk for a while.
VardaValar1: lol
VardaValar1: Now that's a diet plan.
Eonwe Valar: In case you're gone when I get back, take care, good night, sleep well, and have fun :}
ArPharazonV: namarie Eonwe :-)
karakedi25: goodnight, Eonwe
TH0R0NGIL has left the room.
VardaValar1: Namarie, also. At least afk for a bit.
IWF519: namarie all, headed out
ArPharazonV: namarie all who leave :-)
IWF519 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: I'll be saving soon then
VardaValar1 has left the room.
karakedi25: namarie
ArPharazonV: namarie
karakedi25 has left the room.
fladrifv: namarie
ArPharazonV: namarie
fladrifv has left the room.
ArPharazonV: saving and sending transcript