Valar Guild

August 9, 2009 Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5); (GMT = 22:00?)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by: 
Ar-Pharazon and Varda

Attending: (8)
    ArPharazonV, Eonwe Valar (presiding), Finrod-(V)/TH0R0NGIL, fladrifv, Indis-(V)/karakedi25, pallandovalar/orodrethV/oessala, Thror-(V)/Chugin Chub, VardaValar1

Meeting begins
Membership happenings:
    New Full Member: Finarfin-(V)
    Arien is still on vacation
    Ar-Pharazon is set up for college classes in Earth Science.
    We have Full Members teetering on the edge of losing their primary names for lack of contact, same for Tolkien-only members who haven't sent anything in for the Tolkien Site last year or so far this year.
    Games page
    Art page
    WoW: Patch 3.2 and Argent Tourney dailies
    LotRO: Turtle run every Monday. RP event setting up with music and stories.
    Various games:
       Red Alert 3
       L.E.D. Wars: problem
       Second Life: Faery Crossing kin 2nd year anniversary. Fladrif (Sodoi) and Varda (Fainan) are in it.
       Atlantica: Bilbo and Sauron are in Falsetto guild together.
    Characters in Middle-earth that show JRRT's ideals, that we play:
       Eonwë aka Fionwë, Indis, Thror, Varda
    Forum role-play discussion

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1 (3:50:03 PM) has entered the room. [Time in CDT, add one hour for EDT]
Eonwe Valar (4:02:14 PM) has entered the room.
ArPharazonV (4:02:22 PM) has entered the room.
fladrifv (4:02:22 PM) has entered the room.
fladrifv has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya
fladrifv: Aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya :-)
ArPharazonV: hang on, WoW's about to crash
VardaValar1: *puts up umbrella*
Eonwe Valar: I saw 11 people on when I invited everyone in my guild ist, so we have the potential for that many.
Eonwe Valar: Guild list, that is.
VardaValar1: A number of them show as away to me, but we can hope. :-)
ArPharazonV: allright, it survived the portal to Dalaran... hang on, getting my new shoes enchanted, then I'll log out
ArPharazonV: still catching up on a lot of webwork, by the way, but hoping to get an RP-post out this week
Eonwe Valar: OK, ladies and gents, let's get this meeting moving.
Eonwe Valar: Well, I guess lady and gents tonight :}

Eonwe Valar: Elen Sila Lumenn Omentielvo!
VardaValar1: More will probably show up later as usual. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Membership:
Eonwe Valar: I believe Arien's still on vacation.
VardaValar1: Phar also?
ArPharazonV: I'm back from vacation! ...obviously
Eonwe Valar: Welcome back :}
VardaValar1: Yay!
VardaValar1: Could be at a hotel. Welcome home!
Eonwe Valar: We also seem to have a new member, Finarfin-(V). Anything you can tell us about him, Varda?
ArPharazonV: true, but I already mentioned catching up on webwork, making an rp-post and grouping in WoW, most likely raid ;-)
VardaValar1: Finarfin has been with us for a while already as an initiate.
ArPharazonV: welcome Finarfin, then
VardaValar1: He had passed his test but had a dreadful time picking a name.
VardaValar1: We are very glad to have him gaming with us!
VardaValar1: He knew Indis from NeverWinter Nights
VardaValar1: and both had been together in another LotRO guild, so he already had contact with us.
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}
Eonwe Valar: Hail and welcome to our new Finarfin :}
Eonwe Valar: DOn't suppose there's any other member news?
ArPharazonV: *grin* well, I got my student card sent home this week, so I guess my career for the next college year is clear
ArPharazonV: but otherwise no
VardaValar1: As in you know what classes you'll be taking?
Eonwe Valar: I hope that's a good thing :}
ArPharazonV: oh, and I finished The Hobbit on vacation
VardaValar1: yay!
ArPharazonV: no, I know I'm still going to do Earth Sciences next year ;-)
ArPharazonV: but yeah, my classes are pretty set out too
ArPharazonV: I had ideas for making drabbles for every read chapter, but I'm not sure about the theme
VardaValar1: Did you jot down the ideas?
ArPharazonV: short summaries, or summaries from the point of view from a Numenorean, or just taking a "moment" out of the chapter and expanding on that
ArPharazonV: drabbles make for interesting points of view
ArPharazonV: not much you can say in 100 words
VardaValar1: Could do both. Be an interesting point of view comparison.
VardaValar1: Try a double drabble?
VardaValar1: That's an even 200.
ArPharazonV: might try that
ArPharazonV: but the challenge is compressing it into 100, and leaves a lot of room to do it with a lot of chapters
ArPharazonV: if I start here, I'll also do it for Lotr and the Silmarillion, and maybe even the seperate "chapters" for a lot of other Tolkien books
VardaValar1: The 200 is also a challenge form.
ArPharazonV: could be a nice writing practice as I go along on my way to writing my grand Second Age analysis
VardaValar1: People often prefer the 200, plus you can work it as a present problem/answer problem.
ArPharazonV: hmm, perhaps
VardaValar1: It's done. We'll let you do it too. :-)
ArPharazonV: I could take one chapter, choose 2 related but distanced moments in that chapter, and do a drabble of each
ArPharazonV: synergy!
VardaValar1: :-)
VardaValar1: Braiding
VardaValar1: Right, synergy.
ArPharazonV: or if I'm really lazy I'll just make a haiku of each chapter....
VardaValar1: Or of some that it seems to work well for.
VardaValar1: Different forms are better for different subjects.
ArPharazonV: but this is becoming more web and/or tolkien than member
VardaValar1: Side window maybe. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Well let's seguey into Web then :}

Eonwe Valar: Web:
Eonwe Valar: As far as the Games Page goes, I've chosen my next project.
Eonwe Valar: And almost immediately, of course, I saw another couple of projects I'd like to do in the future :}
VardaValar1: No lack of things to do!
Eonwe Valar: So, hopefully you'll get to see the fruits of my brand new labor in the weeks to come :}
VardaValar1: You'll let us know, we hope! Looking forward to it.
Eonwe Valar: Aye :} When it's ready I'll spill the beans :}
VardaValar1: That's the best time. :-)
TH0R0NGIL has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Another major piece of web news involves the art page. Varda, would you like to share?
VardaValar1: Sure
Eonwe Valar: Heya Finrod :}
TH0R0NGIL: just got in, how're you all doing?
ArPharazonV: Aiya Finrod
VardaValar1: The old server became too much of a pain with changing previously free things to paid, among other things.
Eonwe Valar: Good :} Just in time to hear Varda reporting in web news :}
VardaValar1: Aiya Finrod!
VardaValar1: AuStein has been heroically trying to put up with them and handle it all.
VardaValar1: I decided enough was enough.
VardaValar1: Alatar graciously gave us a lot of space and bandwidth and the art is now moved to that server
VardaValar1: the same as the one for most of the text,
VardaValar1: The links are now a horrific mess and I've been spending time repairing them. You should see it improving. :-)
Eonwe Valar: I see the random image on the front page again, so that's a step in the right direction :}
VardaValar1: We have pictures on the index page again, for instance
VardaValar1: Mostly I'm fixing the art page. I'm slipping in a few links like the index and the huge Mellon Chronicles so far.
VardaValar1: Currently I have DeepGroover's section up - a long one, that is being worked on.
VardaValar1: Should be to your spot soon, Fladrif. : )
VardaValar1: Then I'll need help spotting missed links, but right now, not needed. : )
VardaValar1: I'm also backlogged badly on the stories page.
VardaValar1: Had to put some of my own article updating on hold.
VardaValar1: But if anyone sends in articles, they get priority over anything else!
VardaValar1: That is the heart, the core of our Site. : )
VardaValar1: We have people who are on the Tolkien Membership who have not sent anything in for this year.
VardaValar1: Please remember that we have a minimum of at least one item for the site a year to keep membership.
VardaValar1: We really prefer more than that.
VardaValar1: I will not stay backlogged.
VardaValar1: There was something else but it slips my mind at the moment. ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Thanks Varda. I'm sure you're remember it :}
VardaValar1: Maybe after the meeting. ;-)
VardaValar1: oh
Eonwe Valar: Well, you reminded me to mention something at least :}
VardaValar1: I will have to be updating the Membership page.
Eonwe Valar: Go ahead :}
VardaValar1: Remember that we need a yearly contact to keep membership, or a request to keep membership like maybe forever. : )
VardaValar1: We still prefer a yearly contact. This could be the forum, email or AIM me, an item for the news or the site.
VardaValar1: We try to see who is with us in-game, but that can be difficult, especially if I don't play the same game.
VardaValar1: Give me a holler if it's been a while!
Eonwe Valar: Speaking of yearly contact, the GPMU is coming up next month :}
VardaValar1: That counts too. Eonwe lets me know who replied. : )
Eonwe Valar: Will do :}
Eonwe Valar: Er, didn't see the "s" in "lets" :}
Eonwe Valar: "Aye" would've been a better answer :}
VardaValar1: That is good too. : )

Eonwe Valar: That should do it for Web News, so on to Gaming :}
Eonwe Valar: WoW: Patch 3.2 is out.
Eonwe Valar: They put out a wallpaper as usual, then decided they didn't like it and pulled it down. They're supposed to be making another, but I have the original, hehe :}
VardaValar1: Congrats! : )
VardaValar1: Now you have a rare wallpaper. ; )
Eonwe Valar: There's some fun new stuff with this patch, dubbed "Call of the Crusade" because it centers around the Argent Tournament, which is hosted by the Argent Crusade, the culmination of a promise by Tirion Fordring to reform the Knights of the SIlver Hand.
Eonwe Valar: Lorewise, the Argent Crusade is the merger of the Knights of the Silver Hand and the Argent Dawn, so there's a Paladin-specific mount involved called the Argent Charger.
Eonwe Valar: Still gotta buy it as a Paladin, but it doesn't look too bad, even if it's just a reskin of our old Charger :}
Eonwe Valar: New Argent Tourney dailies, new 5-man, 10-man, and 25-man instances, and their heroic modes, new battleground,...
Eonwe Valar: And many other things :}
VardaValar1: That should keep folks busy a week or two. : )
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: Lothar:
Eonwe Valar: Well, I of course got my Argent Charger :}
VardaValar1: Woot!
Eonwe Valar: I also got 50 mounts, so got the achievement and got my Albino Drake :}
VardaValar1: Maybe we should put up a picture of you riding it.
VardaValar1: The new mount.
orodrethV has entered the room.
pallandovalar has entered the room.
pallandovalar has left the room.
oessala has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: OK :} I'll see if I can't get a good screenshot.,
VardaValar1: Pallando, aiya!
pallandovalar has left the room.
VardaValar1: Family has been in Lothar a little, but not as much as they'd like.
VardaValar1: Fangorn and Eowyn have been working a lot, but hope to be trying out the new stuff soon. : )
Eonwe Valar: I also bought the Argent Crusader's Tabard, so now I have a free hearth to the Argent Tourney Grounds every 30 minutes :}
VardaValar1: Cost a lot?
Eonwe Valar: Once I get the Dalaran ring, I'll have that to hearth to Dalaran, and then I can set my Hearthstone anyway and be able to move about Northrend pretty easily :}
VardaValar1: Sounds handy.
Eonwe Valar: The Tabard is 50 Champion's Seals.
ArPharazonV: I just got the white-blue hippogryph, now I'm saving up for a pony... will be a while before I can buy something like that ;-)
Eonwe Valar: I should note the new Argent Tourney dailies require a person to have earned the Title "Crusader."
Eonwe Valar: That means you're exalted with all of your faction's reputations, as well as the Argent Crusade.
ArPharazonV: and have reached champion-status with all of those factions
Eonwe Valar: Aye, and have reached champions status.
Eonwe Valar: Luckily the Valiant dailies give you nice chunks of rep to get there.
Eonwe Valar: Or you can get writs that can get you rep if you don't want to farm those and don't want to go back and do quests you missed coming up.
Eonwe Valar: Which leads me to what I wanted to say next (convenient, eh? :})
VardaValar1: Almost think you planned it.
Eonwe Valar: I'd like to get with any interested Valar Guild members on Lothar to do the Argent Tourney dailies on a regular basis.
ArPharazonV: by regular, you mean daily? :-)
Eonwe Valar: Hehe :}
Eonwe Valar: Daily would be nice, but I'm not sure I could make daily myself :} Doesn't mean there can't still be a group getting together daily to do them though.
Eonwe Valar: These dailies don't take long, and in all could probably be completed in about an hour as a group.
ArPharazonV: I had a good group for them today, we did every single quest there.... even helped each other with the champion-jousting by attacking each other's mobs
Eonwe Valar: All it takes is level 77 or higher and the ability to fly in Northrend.
VardaValar1: *must get flying mount*
Eonwe Valar: There are some places you just can't ride through safely.
Eonwe Valar: After the Tourney dailies, depending on time of day and if there's enough who are interested, questing or instances can be run.
Eonwe Valar: That's if there's anyone interested :}
VardaValar1: There are. : )
VardaValar1: Are you most interested in the Lothar or Uldaman group for those?
VardaValar1: We have been mostly in Uldaman lately.
Eonwe Valar: If you're just starting out at the Argent Tourney, it's about 3 days to get from Aspirant to Valiant, and 5 days from Valiant to Champion.
Eonwe Valar: Only on Lothar do I have characters anywhere near capable of doing the Argent Tournament stuff.
VardaValar1: AuStein says hi, his client won't let him enter. He'll find something else another time, has to leave.
Eonwe Valar: If people want to get together on Uldaman, they're welcome to do that.
ArPharazonV: brb, gotta help with some chores here
VardaValar1: Ok, we all have high levels on Lothar.
ArPharazonV: will be back with games I've played this week
Eonwe Valar: I can also give pointers on the Jousting, and was considering putting up a post on the Forums this week to do just that.
Eonwe Valar: I don't claim I'm the best jouster, or that it's difficult, just that what I do works for me :}
VardaValar1: That would be a good idea, especially for us newbies to it. : )
Eonwe Valar: Anyway, those interested in doing this can talk more with me elsewhere if they wish.
Eonwe Valar: Uldaman. I assume we've got a report from here :}
VardaValar1: I haven't been on WoW much at all this week, although some of the family and Elwing have.
VardaValar1: We all tend to gravitate to Uldaman, as once we get on a roll on one server, we tend to keep going there.
VardaValar1: Before we stayed on Lothar all the time. : )
VardaValar1: Now we do some Lothar and a lot of Uldaman.
Eonwe Valar: As long as you're having fun.
Eonwe Valar: On to LotRO:
VardaValar1: Well, Uldaman had a lot of stuff that was new, and a different viewpoint.
TH0R0NGIL has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Varda, anything you'd like to share from Landroval?
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: The Monday turtle run went off smoothly, and we have another tomorrow.
VardaValar1: Some of us are learning to play .abc files together for making music.
VardaValar1: We had a plan to eventually do group events
VardaValar1: in which we play some, then tell some stories from the Tolkien Site, preferably short ones we did ourselves.
VardaValar1: If we do someone else's from the Site, we'll give them credit.
ArPharazonV: back
VardaValar1: So we play a few songs, do a story, play a few songs, do a story.
Eonwe Valar: Sounds amusing.
VardaValar1: We are also doing more of the instance runs together.
VardaValar1: Sorry I didn't make it last night, guys!
VardaValar1: A level one person can do the music and story thing I just mentioned. We can use hunters to port us around.
VardaValar1: Or captains to summon us.
VardaValar1: The group runs are mostly as enough of us show up, spontaneous.
VardaValar1: So we need our crafters to help us with such spontaneous runs by keeping some food, scrolls, potions, and hope tokens in the kinchest. : )
VardaValar1: End report.
Eonwe Valar: Thanks Varda.
Eonwe Valar: Anyone play anything besides WoW and LotRO this week?
ArPharazonV: yep
ArPharazonV: with WoW instances being heavily queued since the patch I started doing some other games
VardaValar1: Yes
ArPharazonV: I've been doing more Red Alert 3, working through most of the Allied campaign, so now I have more levels I can co-op with Menel ;-)
VardaValar1: yay
ArPharazonV: I also got a rather old RTS called L.E.D. Wars out of the closet but it's not functioning well, might be too old for XP.
Chugin Chub has entered the room.
Chugin Chub: Ayia!
ArPharazonV: but that's allright, as I've got lots of other stuff waiting for me to do!
Eonwe Valar: Heya Thror :}
Chugin Chub: i am a little late to the party :P
Eonwe Valar: You came it at the tail end of gaming :}
VardaValar1: Welcome anytime! *hands over the mead*
Eonwe Valar: Still in time for Tolkien :}
fladrifv: may I have a minute on stage?
Eonwe Valar: Your floor, Fladrif
VardaValar1: *reinforces the stage floor for the ent*
fladrifv: *stand on the stone part of the stage*
ArPharazonV: half afk for a while, some stuff going on here, don't worry I won't be gone long
fladrifv: I have several items first of all I advanced one level in the chess tournament
Eonwe Valar: Congrats :}
fladrifv: seccondly i played seccond life for quite some time this week, and won the chess cup during the festivities and games
VardaValar1: Huzzah!
fladrifv: and ofcourse I joined all the festivities for the 2 year anyversary
fladrifv: and I think that Varda has also something to say about SL
VardaValar1: Hard to do. They seemed to go around the clock!
fladrifv: (some do have european and US versions)
VardaValar1: Aye, Fladrif invited me to Second Life so I spent a little time there for the 2nd Anniversary of the Faery Crossing kin and region, that both of us are in.
VardaValar1: True.
VardaValar1: A couple of kind ladies helped me in my newbieness to look presentable for the partying.
VardaValar1: Free items and a shopping trip, and even just handed me 50 Linden dollars to play with. : )
VardaValar1: Having had the grand total of 0, that was quite an increase.
fladrifv: oh varda a good source of linden is the quiz
VardaValar1: Tried some of the games at Madrigal, had fun.
VardaValar1: I kept missing the quiz time, but hope to get there!
VardaValar1: Good tip.
fladrifv: there is always one tolkien q
VardaValar1: I'll try to answer it before you do. ;-)
VardaValar1: If anyone else does Second Life, let us know.
fladrifv: gala is on
VardaValar1: The Games Page Mass Update is coming.
Eonwe Valar: Anythign else, Fladrif?
fladrifv: that was it for now
Eonwe Valar: ok, thanks :}
fladrifv: *jumping of stage*
Eonwe Valar: Anyone else play anything besides WoW or LotRo before we move to Tolkien?
Chugin Chub: *is back on wow again*
fladrifv: *sees the whole audiance go up and down*
VardaValar1: Thror, you play WoW now? What server?
Chugin Chub: i was playing the ghostbusters game for the xbox 360
Eonwe Valar: I tried the demo of Ghostbusters. It was amusing.
Chugin Chub: i am on thunderhorn or hoof. . . its got the word thunder in it!!
VardaValar1: Thunderhoof
Eonwe Valar: Playing Horde or Alliance?
VardaValar1: Feel free to drop a lowbie onto Lothar Alliance or Uldaman Horde. : )
Chugin Chub: they went all on on ghostbusters got the cast from the movies to do the voices and everything
Chugin Chub: i am mostly alliance but i have a horde character as well
Eonwe Valar: ok
Chugin Chub: and a portioin of ghostbusters is spent being shushed by the gray lady XD
Eonwe Valar: Hehe, aye.
Eonwe Valar: Ok, everyone ready to move to Tolkien? :}
VardaValar1: one sec
VardaValar1: Thror says he keeps the Valar friend channel open on Thunderhoof, so if we drop in we should say hi!
Eonwe Valar: Cool.
Chugin Chub: also that ^_^
Eonwe Valar: :}
Chugin Chub: *something about hearing dan acroyds voice go she's shushing me again! makes me giggle*
Eonwe Valar: hehe
Eonwe Valar: OK, everyone with a Tolkien topic whisper me now :}
VardaValar1: Imagining it makes me giggle.

Eonwe Valar: Tolkien:
Eonwë aka Fionwë, Indis, Thror, Varda
Eonwe Valar: We left off one week telling about our characters and I don't believe we got back to it.
Eonwe Valar: Varda's suggested we do that :}
Chugin Chub: ok ^_^
Eonwe Valar: I was the last person to go that week, and only told about the Maia aspect of Eonwë.
VardaValar1: I am picking on him to do the lesser known Vala version. : )
Eonwe Valar: Since I've got requests to do the Vala aspect from the older versions of the tales, I'll do that first this week.
Eonwe Valar: Off the top of my head, I'd say the easiest to remember thing about Fionwë besides that he was the son of Manwë and Varda was that he was a devoted lover. Being willing to destroy the world to destroy Melkor for losing the woman he loves, he would have to be.
karakedi25 has entered the room.
karakedi25: Aiya!
Eonwe Valar: He was there when the Valar first marched against Melko(r) to bring him to judgement.
Eonwe Valar: He was riding beside Manwë in his chariot.
Eonwe Valar: I don't beleive off the top of my head we're told what he thought about deceiving Melko(r) to get him to emerge from his domain.
Eonwe Valar: I doubt he was happy about Melkor's suggestion that his father do abeisance to him.
Eonwe Valar: *obeisance
VardaValar1: It's interesting to see how much the story changed to become what it was by the Silmarillion time.
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
Eonwe Valar: I don't believe in this version that the Elves had awoken yet.
VardaValar1: They were trying to have the world ready before the elves awoke.
Eonwe Valar: Fionwë also led the sons of the Valar against Morgoth at the end of the First Age.
Eonwe Valar: Presumably he would've been acting on some authority he had as the son of the Elder King, but I don't recall that being addressed.
VardaValar1: Might have been considered obvious?
Eonwe Valar: Might have.
karakedi25: I'd think so.
VardaValar1: JRRT was big on expecting people to get implications.
karakedi25: and on appropriate social hierarchy
karakedi25: respecting same
Eonwe Valar: He leads an army of Elves and the sons of the Valar to this war,.. don't want to forget about the Elves, hehe.
VardaValar1: People tend to forget about the Vanyar as they did not show up in a lot of the stories that were Middle-earth centric.
Eonwe Valar: This early in the tales, they were called the Teleri.
Eonwe Valar: I suppose the other interesting thing to note about this is that Fionwë remained Fionwë pretty late in the mythos, even up to the early writings of LotR.
Eonwe Valar: Parts of Fionwë's different names suggest speed, shining, or fire/burning,
Eonwe Valar: Here, for fun I'll do this...
Eonwe Valar: Fionwë: Fion-“son, haste, or perhaps hawk” weg- “man, manhood, vigour, adult”
Eonwe Valar: Kalmo: Kala-“shine”
Eonwe Valar: Urion: Uru-“fire” Uruva-“like fire” Urwa-“on fire” Urya-“burn”
Eonwe Valar: Auros: quenya, related to Urion; Aurost-“dawn”
Eonwe Valar: From my article on Eonwë, which in turn draws from my sifting through HoME for info on him.
Eonwe Valar: That's about as much as I can say about Fionwë :}
Eonwe Valar: Do we have any volunteers to go next, or shall we go down the line starting at the top with Thror? :}
VardaValar1: Thanks. So we see that Fionwe shows JRRT's deep caring about his own wife and about leadership.

VardaValar1: We would have Fladrif next, as alphabetical character.
karakedi25: I thought we werer going in alphabetic order.
Eonwe Valar: Ah, alphebetical order works, pardon.
Chugin Chub: *sweat breaks out on his forehead*
Eonwe Valar: Thror gets a slight reprieve :}
Chugin Chub: indeed ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Fladrif is on the chopping block, as it were, though :}
Eonwe Valar: Or has Fladrif gone Entish on us? :}
VardaValar1: The point of what we are saying is to show which of Tolkien's ideals are pointed out by our character's story.
VardaValar1: You don't have to write a giant article on everything he or she did. : )
Chugin Chub: indeed, has in mine is rather short like his screen time. . . and his physical shortness >_<"
VardaValar1: Fladrif is being called away for rl

VardaValar1: Indis would be next.
Eonwe Valar: Seems Fladrif has other concerns for now :} Indis gets to go :}
karakedi25: Feh
karakedi25: not really well prepared, but here goesw
karakedi25: *goes
VardaValar1: ( we do a lot off the top of our heads)
karakedi25: Indis doesn't get a lot of mention, and much of her role is along the lines of Tolkien's view of the role of women, though he accepted the exceptions like Galadriel.
karakedi25: She was of the Vanyar, niece, I believe, to Ingwe. She became Finwe's second wife when Miriel gave up and settled in Mandos.
karakedi25: There was an opportunity there to improve relations between the two kindreds...
karakedi25: and at Finwe's level, it may well have happened. Feanor never really accepted her or her sons (at least--don't know how Feanor felt about her daughters).
karakedi25: So she gets points for patience and for raising either sensible sons or at least not high maintenance children (daujghters).
karakedi25: Certainly the values of Finarfin come from her at least in part, and his son Finrod also probably got some of her wisdom. (I assume she was wise--at least she helped her children achieve good values).
karakedi25: In addition, she made Finwe happy, and that would have been very important to Tolkien, in view of his closeness to his wife and belief in a happy marriage partnership.
karakedi25: As far as I know, she attempted to establish a good relationship with Feanor, but he wasn't having it, either with her or her sons.
VardaValar1: (Sounds like some rl people)
karakedi25: So she was patient, supportive of her husband and sons, transmitter of good values and customs, and doubtless wise in her own right.
karakedi25: The question (which Tolkien raises) aboutt her is if she should have accepted Finwe's proposal when he already had a wife in existence,even though she agreed not to leave Mandos' halls.
karakedi25: It was an unprecedented situation, and as far as I know is not documented for anyone else. Manwe apparently adjuticated in favor of Finwe's taking a second wife, so at least techinically she was blameless in the matter.
karakedi25: Anything more you want to hear?
karakedi25: or read, rather
VardaValar1: Just stop when you feel you've said what you wanted to say. : )
karakedi25: I thiink I can stop here.
VardaValar1: She was in all ways unlike Miriel it says
karakedi25: Which would suggest considerably more energy.
VardaValar1: The Vanyar had differences from the Noldor too, might have contributed.
Eonwe Valar: I don't know about "more energy." I recall somewhere in HoME tales about Miriel arguing language and semantics with other linguists/lore-masters, and pretty vehemntly too.
karakedi25: Yes, they were much less interested in 'making' things (including literature).
VardaValar1: Saying different in "all ways" is probably too easy to over-read.
karakedi25: maybe it only refered to her physical features
VardaValar1: We are not told of Vanyar literature, but they could have had it.
karakedi25: we don't know for sure
VardaValar1: JRRT's views of what women should act like did not always mesh with how he saw them treated. As in his depiction of Eowyn.
karakedi25: it might also refer to temperament. Miriel seems far more inward...
karakedi25: and possibly Indis was more outgoing.
karakedi25: Varda suggests that I mention Finarfin as one of Indis' sons (who did not continue to Middle Earth after the kinslaying)...
karakedi25: which is rather appropriate, as I scouted our new member Finarfin.
VardaValar1: Exactly. ;-)
karakedi25: And in game I sometimes refer to him as my son, and he calls me 'Mom.' :-)
VardaValar1: Have to love rp. : )
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: Time for the next person.
Eonwe Valar: Pallando seems to be afk?
karakedi25: *moves out of the hot seat*

Eonwe Valar: That means it's your turn now, Thror :}
Eonwe Valar: As Varda said, you don't have to write a giant article :} Just tell us what you know :}
ArPharazonV: hmm, is he not here? :-)
Eonwe Valar: Hope we didn't scare him off :}
Chugin Chub: yes
Chugin Chub: is scared >_<"
Eonwe Valar: Just tell us what you know about Thror :} Why is he important?
Chugin Chub: i was checking something
Eonwe Valar: Ah :}
VardaValar1: This is a quick way to see what we need to add to the Encyc also. : )
Chugin Chub: ok so thror. . . was a king to a certain dragon mades its new home in his
Chugin Chub: and now typos strike!!
VardaValar1: Of course! hehe
Chugin Chub: he of course passed away before he could reclaim his home land from said dragon
Chugin Chub: as for ideals i would guess loyalty for his people and home land would be the bigest one
VardaValar1: Those are very major.
VardaValar1: They certainly apply from JRRT's life.
karakedi25: yes, JRRT was so loyal to England that he wanted to create a mythology for it, which was an underlying reason for his legendarium.
Chugin Chub: so aside from that there isnt much to go one for thror
VardaValar1: There is quite a bit, you may be surprised when you start looking it all up.
Chugin Chub: indeed
VardaValar1: We used to believe there was only one line about Salmar, as we used the Sil.
Chugin Chub: though i dont recall him mentioned in anything but the hobbit
VardaValar1: Digging into HoMe, Salmar-Valar found a ton more. : )
ArPharazonV: did you try appendix A in Lotr?
VardaValar1: The Hobbit can give you enough to keep busy too. : )
ArPharazonV: some stuff about dwarves there, including the dwarf-goblin war when he was killed
ArPharazonV: Salmar, wasn't that Gandalf?
Chugin Chub: its been some time since i read the hobbit and the sil. . .
VardaValar1: Currently Irmo
Eonwe Valar: If you mean Gandalf's Maia name in the books, it was Olorin.
VardaValar1: Aye, so now's your chance to enjoy looking through again. I find tons to distract me from the proper subject when trying to research. ;-)
VardaValar1: Oh, pardon, thought you meant the player. : )
Chugin Chub: indeed
ArPharazonV: Olorin, ahh
Eonwe Valar: I suppose it's Varda's turn to tell us all about herself :}
VardaValar1: Aiya, people of the Valar. : )
Chugin Chub: i do belive this came up some time ago and i started to look up information on thror from the books but i do believe there was little given there as well
ArPharazonV: still missing Pallando and Fladrif if they're here ;-)
VardaValar1: They are afk

Eonwe Valar: Go for it, Varda :}
Eonwe Valar: Pallando can go if they get back in time, but if not they get to do it next week :}
VardaValar1: Varda was involved in the song for which Eru gave the theme, and chose to sing of light.
Eonwe Valar: They won't escape, muahahaha! *cough* I mean, hehe :}
VardaValar1: *chuckles*
VardaValar1: She was a powerful singer, becoming the strongest of the queens of the Valar.
VardaValar1: Melkor always wanted power and wanted to marry Varda, or the Valar equivalent of that.
VardaValar1: She rejected him and married Manwe, who was closest to the mind of Eru, and remained faithful to him, remaining at his side.
VardaValar1: A continuing function was that she listened. She heard all the voices in Arda, her ability strongest when working with Manwe.
VardaValar1: Manwe's ability to see all that happened was augmented by working with Varda.
VardaValar1: So they made a great team.
VardaValar1: When Varda learned that the elves would be waking soon in a world of almost complete darkness, she was appalled.
VardaValar1: Only a few faint stars were left to give light.
VardaValar1: So she gathered many of those stars into constellations to increase their light, and made huge numbers of new, bright ones.
VardaValar1: This was considered one of the greatest labors ever undertaken by a Vala of any gender.
VardaValar1: The elves woke beneath her stars and afterwards called on her. The fact that she listened to them surely reinforced that.
VardaValar1: This may have led to her overprotectiveness regarding the elves.
VardaValar1: When discussion came up about the great danger the elves were in by remaining in the easy reach of Melkor, she was one of those that was for bringing them out of that hazardous place
VardaValar1: into the safety of Valinor.
VardaValar1: Even though that was contrary to the original plan of the elves being in Arda to care for it and bring it beauty.
VardaValar1: One wonders if Arda might not have been a much more beautiful place and more welcoming when Mankind arrived, had the elves been left alone.
VardaValar1: However, the journey made the elves a greater people the closer they made it to Valinor.
VardaValar1: Their character may not have had time to develop enough in Middle-earth, and one might wonder if the Noldor might have needed more growing up time there.
VardaValar1: But Varda seems to have learned from this error of overprotectiveness by the time humans arrived.
VardaValar1: Even though Men were in an even worse situation, the Valar did not try to call them out of it.
VardaValar1: In summary, Varda showed the ideals of beauty, love, light, hard work, caring, learning, and loyalty to her husband and to Eru.
Chugin Chub: good work varda ^_^
VardaValar1: Thank you. ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Thanks Varda :}
karakedi25: how about creativity?
VardaValar1: Good point. : )

Eonwe Valar: So, Fladrif and Pallando, you two back yet? :}
Eonwe Valar: Ok, we'll save their turns for next week then.
VardaValar1: Something to look forward to!
karakedi25: I suggest as a topic for another time the whole question of what would have happened if the Valar had not invited the elves to Valinor and the pros and cons of it.
Eonwe Valar: Sounds good.

karakedi25: are we going to talk about the RP?
VardaValar1: Do we need to? Or just go post?
ArPharazonV: well, I had one thing to comment
Eonwe Valar: Arien's still on vacation and Menel's not here. Not sure how much we could establish.
ArPharazonV: I believe Frali referred to Auros as Eonwe at one point :-)
Eonwe Valar: Oh yeah, I meant to mention that to her :}
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Habit gets to you. : )
Eonwe Valar: See, Auros' task can't fail because he's got the herald of the Valar standing right there! :}
VardaValar1: I kind of had in mind glossing over the various trips across the water and getting to the last trip for Frali's slip if that's when we want to do it.
VardaValar1: Do we want the horses to be split up at the time of the slip?
VardaValar1: Arien already said she'd play the part of the slipper. : )
karakedi25: I was thinking of writing about Meren's trip across and establishing the horses on the other side.
Eonwe Valar: Probably need to be based on the size of the boat we're using.
ArPharazonV: I'll try to make a small post this week but knowing me you can just go ahead and I'll see where I come in....
VardaValar1: I worked it out as a two horse trip each time, including Fainan poling and Cal controlling the horses.
ArPharazonV: wouldn't know what to say, really
Eonwe Valar: Probably couldn't get more than 2 plus the person manning the boat and maybe a Dwarf.
Eonwe Valar: or persons manning the boat.
VardaValar1: That's why I show Meren and Estarion going on the first trip. We only leave Auros and Frali with the horses.
VardaValar1: The horses as a group in the thunder and lightning and rain with their riders leaving them could make for problems helping lead to the slip.
Eonwe Valar: If Frali thought he could man the boat in an attempt to be useful (hehe) and then fell off in the process, well that wouldn't be great for Frali...
VardaValar1: hehe
ArPharazonV: or the boat :-)
Eonwe Valar: Well, Fainan may or may not be able to keep the boat in relative control alone.
VardaValar1: The boat has ropes going to both sides and needs people pulling from both sides.
VardaValar1: Frali will be pulling when horses are not on the boat.
Eonwe Valar: Or not.
VardaValar1: Estarion will be pulling when horses are on the boat.
VardaValar1: Fainan helps the pullers by poling, and is available to help if the horses go bonkers. : )
VardaValar1: Cal will get off with the last horses, and Fainan goes back for Frali.
VardaValar1: Auros may or may not be there, as he could possibly go with the last horses, but I figure he's still there.
ArPharazonV: hmm
VardaValar1: Makes more sense on the numbers.
ArPharazonV: I'll keep this in mind
VardaValar1: Frali may be tired from pulling, and feeling relief that it's over, and no longer paying as close attention.
VardaValar1: The bank will be a mess from all the horses and travel.
VardaValar1: There could be wet mud with no vegetation not present before, like a slide. Elves made it look easy to walk on mud, like they do snow.
VardaValar1: So he doesn't realize how bad it really is.
VardaValar1: Auros stepped right there just fine!
VardaValar1: Frali steps there, but he's a dwarf. *fwoooosh*
ArPharazonV: poor lad
VardaValar1: May have plate armor the weight of a Buick.
VardaValar1: Auros would most likely try to grab him, Fainan is on the boat.
VardaValar1: Then it's all up to your imagination. : )
VardaValar1: I don't guess Frali would go far downstream even with a strong currrent. Weight.
VardaValar1: But the thought that spiders and orcs are that direction is scary, and Auros might find himself going that way more, as he helps Frali escape.
ArPharazonV: well, as long as he doesn't sink...
VardaValar1: Do we bump into the spiders and or orcs, probably up to Auros' story.
VardaValar1: The current keeps Frali from sinking straight down, and Auros has to get him.
VardaValar1: If Fainan thinks it necessary, she'll dive off the boat to help. The ropes will hold it in place.
VardaValar1: The pole would be placed back in the boat, in a hurry. : )
Eonwe Valar: Except by diving in she places herself in the same danger.
VardaValar1: And she's lighter, the current is more dangerous for her than for Auros.
VardaValar1: He's also stronger.
VardaValar1: Does he use chain mail or leather or what?
Eonwe Valar: Right now, probably not wearing any armor to speak of. He didn't come for a fight.
VardaValar1: Fainan is more likely to extend the pole to let you guys grab it.
VardaValar1: Ok, so he shouldn't have a problem with a heavy mail coat.
VardaValar1: Lightly armored as a Sinda!
Eonwe Valar: Dwarves make some pretty sturdy yet light mail as well. Frali shouldn't be *too* weighed down.
VardaValar1: The Buick comment came from John Rhys-Davies. : )
Eonwe Valar: hehe
VardaValar1: (Played Gimli)
ArPharazonV: indeed, mithril, while strong, was quite light
VardaValar1: Frali would not be wearing mithril.
ArPharazonV: though I don't suppose they all go clad in the stuff (it was made for an elven prince after all)
Eonwe Valar: Probably not, aye.
ArPharazonV: mithril alloy? :-)
Eonwe Valar: Dwarves of Belegost worked quite well with steel.
VardaValar1: Mithril was pretty unavailable. : )
karakedi25: Yes, no one in this party, even Auros, would be likely to wear mithril.
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
karakedi25: afk a couple of minutes
VardaValar1: I would be perfectly happy to jump the rp to
VardaValar1: say that we did the crossings and go on to the part with action.
VardaValar1: I don't want to mention it every time we buckle a shoe either. : )
ArPharazonV: fine with me, Calion's first reaction will be trying to follow Frali along the shore for a bit, then
ArPharazonV: O
ArPharazonV: *typo
ArPharazonV: I mean, he's on the far side by that point if I understand you well?
VardaValar1: Right
VardaValar1: Calion stayed with the last horses.
Eonwe Valar: I'm curious on who besides Fainan would be close enough to the edge of the bank to attempt to grab Frali before he fell. Sure the Elves can walk easily across mud, but the horses couldn't, so we'd have those a number of feet from where we bring them across.
VardaValar1: No one is on the side with no horses except Auros and Frali. Fainan is on the boat.
VardaValar1: The horses were the ones tearing up the bank.
Eonwe Valar: Sorry, afk for a quick moment.
VardaValar1: It would not be so muddy if the vegetation had not been torn up by hooves in wet dirt.
VardaValar1: I'm pretty well done anyway. : )
VardaValar1: 8:18 pm EDT now.
VardaValar1: Three hour meeting should be enough, reckon?
VardaValar1: afk also
Eonwe Valar: back
karakedi25: back
Eonwe Valar: Ok, let's call it here then.
Eonwe Valar: *bangs gavel*
VardaValar1: Heard the beep
VardaValar1: *jumps*

Eonwe Valar: Aftermeeting.
VardaValar1: and the gavel : )
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: Thank you for taking care of the meeting, Eonwe. : )
Eonwe Valar: NP :}
Eonwe Valar: It's in the job description :}
VardaValar1: :-)
Eonwe Valar: We have the general idea of what's going down. I think we can allow events to unfold a bit from there.
karakedi25: Not sure how Meren will help when Frali falls in. Maybe she'll take charge of the horses while many of you are chasing downriver?
VardaValar1: All but three are on the far side of the river.
Eonwe Valar: Meren was set to take care of the horses on the other side, wasn't she?
Eonwe Valar: Auros on the Halls side.
VardaValar1: Right
karakedi25: right
VardaValar1: Meren was put in charge of the horses on the far side from the beginning, right.
VardaValar1: Auros had them on the Halls side.
karakedi25: that was my understanding
VardaValar1: Cal had them on the crossing.
VardaValar1: okie dokie
karakedi25: so she may have some herbs ready when you all come back fatigued and dripping
Eonwe Valar: So Indis keeping the horses an eye on the horses would probably make sense.
Eonwe Valar: Er, Meren.
VardaValar1: I almost typed Indis too. We are doing an Arien here. ;-)
VardaValar1: Meren is going to have her hands very full with the entire group of horses. Unless she turns them over to Cal.
karakedi25: she's a herbalist as well as a scholar, so she'll be doing some of that on the other side, especially when she sees tht bunch of you are likely to come back needing some
ArPharazonV: believing Meren has the horses under control, I think Calion would try to help Frali from the other side, maybe chase him downriver a bit
karakedi25: makes sense
karakedi25: so she may have an antidote to some of the effects of the Enchanted River available
VardaValar1: If you are holding a mob of scared horses, you may be a tad busy.
VardaValar1: While we're in this scattered mess, we're a bit more vulnerable to potential attack. The rain is a lot of our protection right now.
karakedi25: might get a prowling spider or two
VardaValar1: Orc is more likely, spiders would want to hunker down.
VardaValar1: Which means they would be on your side of the river. : )
karakedi25: they would be anyway, no?
VardaValar1: That is what I meant, yes.
ArPharazonV: weren't the spiders on the eastern side of the river?
VardaValar1: spiders on the Halls side, orcs on the far side.
karakedi25: by this time, spiders might be on both sides
karakedi25: things have gotten worse since the Hobbit
VardaValar1: They are all over Mirkwood, but the particular camps mentioned earlier were where I said.
VardaValar1: Spiders were all over Mirkwood.
ArPharazonV: that's true
VardaValar1: They avoided areas where the elves had recently feasted, and the darkness was lighter in such places.
VardaValar1: Those feasts must have had more use than just munchies. : )
ArPharazonV: they smell of Elf
ArPharazonV: spiders don't like the smell of Elf
ArPharazonV: anyway, I should be going, I'll save and send transcript
karakedi25: ok, see you later Phar
ArPharazonV (7:38:53 PM): saved [Time in CDT, add one hour for EDT]
karakedi25 (7:39:52 PM): anyone coming into lotro?
ArPharazonV (7:40:08 PM): sent
VardaValar1 (7:42:18 PM): I want to find something to eat. Still in a huge pile of webwork, but I guess I could come into LotrO.
VardaValar1 (7:42:23 PM): Are you in it?
karakedi25 (7:42:49 PM): es
karakedi25 (7:42:51 PM): *yes
ArPharazonV (7:43:06 PM): Namarie all
karakedi25 (7:43:41 PM): namarie
ArPharazonV (7:43:53 PM) has left the room.
VardaValar1 (7:44:00 PM): Bye Phar
VardaValar1 (7:44:16 PM): Look like I should get over there, Indis?
karakedi25 (7:44:23 PM): only if you want to
VardaValar1 (7:45:11 PM): I mean does it look like you need Fainan to complete a group, or is Finnson freaking out over getting enough people for music? : )
VardaValar1 (7:45:22 PM): I would like to play, of course. : )
karakedi25 (7:45:27 PM): no, no action as far as I can see
karakedi25 (7:45:38 PM): just brought in Isa. I had Mer on before.
karakedi25 (7:46:04 PM): Only others are Morwena and Gratmo.
VardaValar1 (7:46:55 PM): ok, so no tearing need atm, and I can eat. : )
karakedi25 (7:47:34 PM): nope, and I need to find some dinner too :-)
karakedi25 (7:47:40 PM): so I'll go afk
Eonwe Valar (7:48:16 PM): I need to go afk for a while. I'll stay in here while I'm gone though :}
karakedi25 (7:48:28 PM): ok
Eonwe Valar (7:48:38 PM): Take care all and have fun :}
VardaValar1 (7:48:54 PM): Namarie!
karakedi25 (7:49:13 PM): Namarie
karakedi25 (7:49:21 PM): I'll drop out too.
karakedi25 (7:49:24 PM): Take care
karakedi25 (7:50:55 PM): Namarie