July 29, 2007 Meeting
5pm EST (GMT - 5);
(GMT = 22:00)
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AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
Transcript work by: Ar-Pharazon, Eonwe,
Attending: (8 and 1/2)
Members: Ancalagon-(V)/Sarujil, AriehnV,
ArPharazonV, Eonwe Valar (presided over Business), Gilraen-(V)/Star of
Phaet, Glorfindel VG, Menelvagor Valar (presided over Tolkien chat),
Visitor: brief pop in by Khamul-(V)-ex
Includes Tolkien discussion on Numenor and its colonies.
Ar-Pharazon is back from vacation and transcripting again for the guild.
Quite a few members will be starting back to school
during August, about midway, including Eonwe. If Ar-Pharazon's
University hopes work out, he will be in class in September.
A Valar group went to the movies together
(unfortunately during the meeting) including Elwing, Gimli, Fangorn,
Eowyn, Sauron, and Varda.
Articles by hard-working Arveleg-(V)
LotRO: adding new server for guild use when Landroval is down: Roheryn, which is the test server.
New short story.
Topic 1: Numenor and its colonies, during the Membership section. from Ar-Pharazon-(V).
Topic 2: tales of Dark Elves within Tolkien's books? from Eonwe-(Valar).
Forum Role-play parts for "Scouting Ahead" are
now stickied by Eonwe in the order that one would read them.
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
Sarujil has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
FallenGlory has entered the room.
AriehnV has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya all
Star of Phaet has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya
Star of Phaet: Aiya :-)
ArPharazonV: just watching a warcraft 3 replay, almost done
AriehnV: Aiya all :-)
Eonwe Valar: We'll begin shortly.
ArPharazonV: me in a kodo tag vs 3 dozen kodos, without a base
Eonwe Valar: hehe
ArPharazonV: I won too!
Eonwe Valar: Congrats :}
Eonwe Valar: Ok, let's begin. Please see that anyone you see on not here ha an invitation.
ArPharazonV: one by one our bases got torn apart and people started to leave, and the last 6 minutes or so I was on my own
ArPharazonV: so I built long walls of those free buildings around the map in the hope it would distract them
ArPharazonV: until I have a huge train of kodos on me!
Menelvagor Valar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya Menel.
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya
AriehnV: aiya Menel
Eonwe Valar: Meeting is starting.
Eonwe Valar: Elenn Sila Lumenn Omentielvo!
Eonwe Valar: Varda and Elwing are out to see movies, so you have me today :} [Note: also included in the movie party were Gimli, Fangorn, Eowyn, and Sauron.]
Eonwe Valar: Any other member news?
ArPharazonV: eh, you'll do, I'm sure
ArPharazonV: I'm back from 2 week holiday! ready to make new meeting transcripts
Eonwe Valar: Thanks, and Welcome back :}
ArPharazonV: in those 2 weeks I started my own little research project into Numenor, bringing 6 books with me
ArPharazonV: I'm just about halfway, so not done yet ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: afk a sec, making a late dinner :-)
ArPharazonV: I found that almost everything Tolkien wrote about Numenor can be found in 6 books: Return of the King, the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, and parts 5, 9, and 12 of the Peoples of Middle-earth... it's turning out to be quite a read
ArPharazonV: ehrr, the history of Middle-earth, sorry
Eonwe Valar: Can't wait to see the fruits of your labor, Phar :}
ArPharazonV: and while this is probably turning out to be more Tolkien than Member, I'll keep you informed on where I go
Eonwe Valar: Thanks, and have fun :}
ArPharazonV: also extended my read on colonies in Middle-Earth in the
second age and afterwards, most notably Umbar and Lond Daer...
AriehnV: remind me to send my story to you for reviewing and editing once i get it finished tapping into the computer :-)
ArPharazonV: I might get at least an article about Umbar out of it, and maybe some stuff about other topics too!
Khamul V has entered the room.
Khamul V has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Why isn't Pelargir notable as well? As I recall, it's
where the Faithful came to Middle-Earth when Numenor started turning
hostile to them.
ArPharazonV: well, there isn't a lot about Pelargir that I found, except that indeed
ArPharazonV: while if you put all pieces of texts together, Umbar and Lond Daer have a much more informative history :-)
Eonwe Valar: ok :}
ArPharazonV: also, a quick glance in the encyclopedia reveals that we
don't actually have any article concerning Umbar... so I figure I see a
gap I can fill :-)
Eonwe Valar: Varda will appreciate that :}
Eonwe Valar: As will every Tolkien fan who uses the Encyclopedia, which I hope is everyone here at least :}
ArPharazonV: well, that's about it, I had a good vacation otherwise, we
only had a few days of sun but in those few days I burned my shoulders,
nose, chest, feet, legs, and arms
ArPharazonV: as well as catching a cold in the last few days
ArPharazonV: but all in all a good time was had ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Heh, now that's quite a feat. Sunburn and a cold.
Eonwe Valar: Any other member news?
Eonwe Valar: Classes should be starting back up within the next month for some of us.
ArPharazonV: beginning of September for me, if my application finally makes it through, which I really hope it does
Eonwe Valar: Good luck with that :}
Eonwe Valar: Web news:
Eonwe Valar: Arveleg's been quite busy working on articles for the encyclopedia it seems.
Eonwe Valar: New articles as follows:
Eonwe Valar: Animals: Arroch
Eonwe Valar: Men: Gethron, Grithnir, Titles and Names of Turin, Úmarth
Eonwe Valar: Objects: The Helm of Hador
Eonwe Valar: Places: Haudh-en-Nirnaeth
Eonwe Valar: Gaming News:
Eonwe Valar: LotRO:
Eonwe Valar: No gaming report from LotRO, as I was not there this week and Varda is not here.
Eonwe Valar: Varda mentioned on the forum also starting a guild branch
on the test server for days when Landroval, our main server, is down,
so get with her if that sounds appealing to you. She'll still be Fainan
Eonwe Valar: One sec, I'll provide a link for those who want to read the post themselves.
Eonwe Valar: http://valarguild.proboards22.com/index.cgi?board=lotrogeneral&action=display&thread=1185730465
Eonwe Valar: Or just go to the forum and look under LotRO General.
Eonwe Valar: WoW:
Eonwe Valar: New Story by the guys at Blizzard: Unbroken. It tells us how we got Draenei Shaman.
Eonwe Valar: Lothar:
ArPharazonV: wasn't that some Broken guy who went to the Draenei and told them about the power of nature or something?
Eonwe Valar: Put simply, yes.
Eonwe Valar: Unbroken is the story of Nobundo.
AriehnV: ((to be honest i d like more to know how the allance landed with warlocks ... they started off ass corrupted shaman))
AriehnV: as even
Eonwe Valar: You can find Nobundo in Exodar.
ArPharazonV: wasn't that known at the time the expansion came out? or is it some new novel you're talking about?
Eonwe Valar: It's a short story.
Eonwe Valar: That's why I prefaced it with "New Story by the guys at Blizzard."
Eonwe Valar: And Shamanism is where the orcs started off. It's not
necessarily the only way to end up going after warlock powers.
Eonwe Valar: Mages could be corrupted just as easily.
AriehnV: ah thanks i was wondering about that and landed at a similar conclusion thanks Eonwe
Eonwe Valar: Kel'Thuzad was a mage of the Kirin Tor when he was turning towards Necromancy, and ended up serving the Lich King.
Eonwe Valar: MP.
Eonwe Valar: Lothar:
Menelvagor Valar: Do you have a link for the Shaman story?
Eonwe Valar: Only a few of us were on at a time on Friday: Sauron, myself, Elwing, I think Fangorn and Eowyn were on for a bit.
Eonwe Valar: It's on the front page of the Community site.
Eonwe Valar: I'd go get one for you, but it takes a while to load WoW's community site on dial-up.
Eonwe Valar: I'd rather not leave the meeting sitting that long :}
ArPharazonV: ah, the US version of the site... no wonder I couldn't find it
Eonwe Valar: Aye, the US version.
Eonwe Valar: I would've assumed it would be up on the other sites as
well, since coming from Blizzard it become part of the canon.
ArPharazonV: it's not on the European version, not on the front page at least
Eonwe Valar: Lothar (continued): Sauron leveled his Priest to 52, Eonwë leveled both his Druid to 31, and his Priest to 50.
Eonwe Valar: Wer also, as usual, had gaming going on throughout the week.
Eonwe Valar: Wer = We
Eonwe Valar: WoW Uldaman: I was only on for a bit, but I saw Elwing on. I levelled my Orc Hunter, but that was about it.
Eonwe Valar: WoW Argent Dawn: Arien has a report for us. Your floor, Arien.
AriehnV: Menelvagors Drud Morningsong and urwendi have been teaming up on Tuesday for a visit in the charred vale
AriehnV: We had a knock on harpies .. including a certain elte .. hihi
it went well indeed :-) we finished our little collection before
returning to our fvarious homes due to the late hour
AriehnV: that is the gamming report as such .. but there is another announcement to make
AriehnV: Unfortunately the official gaming day has not worked out very well for us
AriehnV: We are online together at too rare occassionand we are too few members
AriehnV: so Menelvagor and myself came to the conclusion that we should
drop the official gaming day but will group togoether when we nead each
AriehnV: and Valandil will be there as well and i am sure he will join when he is available
AriehnV: Anything to add to that , Menelvagor?
Menelvagor Valar: not really.
AriehnV: that ends my report then
Menelvagor Valar: Okido.
Eonwe Valar: THanks Arien.
Eonwe Valar: Any games besides LotRO or WoW played this week?
ArPharazonV: bit of Warcraft 3 this afternoon
ArPharazonV: with someone I know from WoW
ArPharazonV: nothing else from me... I wasn't really around a lot ;-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: Arveleg is looking for people who play Battle for Middle-Earth 2,
so if you do and you're not listed on the Games Page, please let me
know, and try to get in a game with Arveleg and with others listed if
you can :}
Eonwe Valar: I'm turning the gavel over to Menelvagor for Tolkien chat, as I need to go afk for a couple of minutes.
Eonwe Valar: If he doesn't get topics from some of you, he's instructed to go with mine, so you better give him a topic :}
Menelvagor Valar: Thanks Eonwe.
Menelvagor Valar: You heard the man... err.. Valar. Let me know if you have any topics :-)
Menelvagor Valar: No one?
Menelvagor Valar: I guess one of Eonwe's topics will have to do then.
Menelvagor Valar: Can anyone remember any tales of Dark Elves within Tolkien's books?
ArPharazonV: or do you mean the Avari?
AriehnV: Iisnt Eol an Avar?
Menelvagor Valar: Well, as far as I remember, the Avari, unwilling, have been called by some, Dark Elves.
Menelvagor Valar: However, as far as I know, Eol is the only elf ever mentioned by Tolkien to be a Dark Elf.
ArPharazonV: I'm not sure if Eol's an Avar... but I doubt he would play a part in Beleriand if he was
AriehnV: the part that came in there was the daughter of one of the kings there , was it Turgons daughter Idril?
Menelvagor Valar: No, Turgon's sister, Aredhel.
AriehnV: ah sister yep
AriehnV: ok cheers its been a while snce i read that story
ArPharazonV: yep, and their son Maeglin was the one who desired Idril
AriehnV: oh my .. i am getting old ^^
Menelvagor Valar: hihi
Menelvagor Valar: But are there any other mentions in the books?
Menelvagor Valar: the Histories for example?
Sarujil has left the room.
ArPharazonV: well, there's the story of the awakening of the Elves,
before Orome came to them... but I guess they weren't as much
"Unwilling" as just uneducated at that time
Menelvagor Valar: Okay.
Menelvagor Valar: And what do we know of the Avari themselves?
ArPharazonV: well, we know that Men encountered them after their
awakening, learned primitive languages from them, and other bits of
civilization, I think
Menelvagor Valar: what else?
Menelvagor Valar: how did they become Avari?
ArPharazonV: when they split up from the other Elves when they refused to travel to Valinor, I guess?
Eonwe Valar: Why guess? Pull out your Sil :}
Eonwe Valar: (back and just caught up with the conversartion)
Eonwe Valar: (*conversation)
Eonwe Valar: Dark Elves, or "Moriquendi," by the way, encompass more
than just the Avari, though the Avari were the intent of my topic.
AriehnV: Indeed , Menelvagor, so it is. remember that there stillwas
melkor about and wanted to prevent the elves being taken into valinor
.. so he tried to scare them off by smuggling false information about
the fvvalar and valinor to them
Eonwe Valar: All Elves are Quendi. The term "Avari" is used to describe
elves as opposed to the term "Eldar." The latter bearing the name given
them by Oromë, ....
Eonwe Valar: and the former being given that name, meaning "Unwilling,"
in that they did not want to go to Aman even after three of their
leaders returned and told them of it.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, Melkor had to get those lies to the Elves somehow. We know many spirits work for Melkor.
Eonwe Valar: I think the primary way was to appear as a dark rider in
fashion after Oromë however, since Oromë was known to roam
ArPharazonV: hmm, guess Evil used the "black rider" idea long before the Nazgul...
Eonwe Valar: Here we go, I found the part in my Sil.
Eonwe Valar: Hehe, aye Phar :}
Eonwe Valar: The following is found in "Of the Coming of the Elves."
Eonwe Valar: "Yet many of the Quend iwere filled with dread at his
(Oromë's) coming; and this was the doing of Melkor. For by
after-knowledge the wise declare that Melkor, ever watchful, was first
aware of the awakening of the Quendi,..
Eonwe Valar: and sent shadows and evil spirits to spy upon them and
waylay them. So it came to pass, some years ere the coming of
Oromë, that if any Elves strayed far abroad, alone or few
together, they would often vanish, and never return;
Eonwe Valar: and the Quendi said that the Hunter had caught them,
and they were afraid. And indeed the most ancient songs of the Elves,
of which echoes are remembered still in the West,...
Eonwe Valar: tell of the shadow-shapes that walked in the hills of
Cuivienen, or would pass suddenly over the stars, and of the dark Rider
upon his wild horse that pursued those that wandered to take them and
AriehnV: tell of the shadow shapes that wawlk in the welst ..
AriehnV: ha yer faster :-D
Eonwe Valar: After that is mentioned the "lying whispers."
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: So that tells us that the Avari probably still remembered these songs as well.
Eonwe Valar: If they are preserved even in Aman, then it is likely they are remembered among those living closer to danger.
AriehnV: here i ve got the passage that mentions the name first
Eonwe Valar: *Awaits passage*
AriehnV: Then befell the first sundering of the Elfes . for the kindred of Ingwe and the most part of Finwe and Elwe ...
AriehnV: and were willing to depart with Orome . and these were known ever after as the Eldar ... But many refused the summons
AriehnV: preferring the starlight and the wide spaces of Middle-earth to the rumour of the Trees
AriehnV: and these are the Avari, the Unwilling , and they were sundered in that time from the Eldar
AriehnV: Sorry for that first failure but message was too long so i hadf to rip it apart :-)
Eonwe Valar: NP, happend to me as well :}
Eonwe Valar: *happened
Eonwe Valar: I was hoping you'd go a little further, to read the part that says "and met never again until many ages were past." :}
Eonwe Valar: So apparently at some point the Eldar and the Avari did meet again.
AriehnV: oops indeed
Eonwe Valar: So taking a recap, what have we established about the Avari?
Glorfindel VG has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya Glorfindel :}
AriehnV: Aiya glorfindel
ArPharazonV: well, there's the tale about this lone Avar who came to Mirkwood to find help for his people...
ArPharazonV: Estarion, I believe his name was?
Glorfindel VG: hello : )
Eonwe Valar: We were discussing what we know about the Avari, but I
think the conversation is winding down, unless you have something to
Eonwe Valar: I remember hearing about this.. Estarion was it? :}
Eonwe Valar: I wonder if he ever succeeded :}
AriehnV: maybe partially and got some of the Elves of Mirkwood to help
him but lost the final fight and in the end they fused together?
AriehnV: *sets mind boggling* what a nice story or rp thiing :-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: Someone care to recap on what we have about Avari?
Eonwe Valar: Avari is a classification of Elves as opposed to Eldar...
AriehnV: Well it was what Menelvagor has said : they were those Elves
that refused to follow the summons of the Valar into Valinor
AriehnV: they remained in Middlearth and stayed a seperate people for many ages
AriehnV: if i do remember it correctly ...some of them met with the
Nandor, who were the Woodlves that split from the sindarin during the
AriehnV: or maybe i am mixing up things again?
Eonwe Valar: There were no Sindar when the Nandor stopped.
Eonwe Valar: Perhpas you meant Teleri?
Eonwe Valar: Perhaps even?
AriehnV: ah yes
Eonwe Valar: Ok
Eonwe Valar: Not sure about the Avari meeting with the Nandor though.
Eonwe Valar: Do you happen to have an idea roundabouts where it would be in the Sil?
AriehnV: There is a passage a bit later on that part about the elves i just quickread it
AriehnV: and the Nandor were Teleri who decided to stay on the east
bank of Anduin for a long time as they would not continue a journey
that already had lasted several years
AriehnV: but they did not meet the dark elves .. so i was wrong there . my bad
Eonwe Valar: ok, np.
Eonwe Valar: I suppose that's all we're going to glean.
Eonwe Valar: At least for now.
AriehnV: I am going to bed now :-) it has been a hard day at wrk
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well Arien :}
Eonwe Valar: Don't forgot the RP! :}
Eonwe Valar: We're re-entering Mirkwood :}
AriehnV: err oki oh yes my sore backside :-D
AriehnV: will post tomorrow
ArPharazonV: Namarie Arien!
Eonwe Valar: And we still need to hear from Estarion and his horse *prods Menel* :}
AriehnV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: I suppose I'll bang the gavel here.
Eonwe Valar: *Bangs gavel*
Eonwe Valar: Be free or stay and chat :}
Eonwe Valar: Oh, meant to mention..
Eonwe Valar: For those reading the RP, I stickied all 5 parts in order from newest to oldest (top to bottom)
Eonwe Valar: Should make it easier to find the parts when you go to read them.
Menelvagor Valar has left the room.
ArPharazonV: I'll save and send
Eonwe Valar: ok
ArPharazonV: good to be back ;-)
ArPharazonV: hah, it seemed I got an email from Varda, stating that
she's going to the movies, as a reply to a mail that *you* would be
going to the movies
ArPharazonV: you got back in time then?
ArPharazonV: anyway, sent
Eonwe Valar: No,
Eonwe Valar: Unfortunately, my plans got cancelled.
Eonwe Valar: So I was able to make it.
ArPharazonV: yay :-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: Guess this means you better take a peak at your mail before meetings now to make sure you won't have to cover it :}
ArPharazonV: I check my mail daily, I had hoped that would be enough :-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
ArPharazonV: well, gonna do some fishing for a quest in Darkshore, with my little hunter
ArPharazonV: then I'll be off to bed
Eonwe Valar: Ok Phar, have fun :}
ArPharazonV: I'll be in the room until then :-)
ArPharazonV: she's starting with a fishing skill of 1, so it could take a while
Eonwe Valar: I'm delving into WoW myself, maybe LotRO later, so not sure if I'll see you leave :}
Eonwe Valar: yep, that could definitely take you a while.
Eonwe Valar: Have fun, and in case I don't see you go, take care, good night, and sleep well :}
ArPharazonV: I'll probably send along the oily blackmouths I get to my alchemist
ArPharazonV: thanks, you too!
ArPharazonV: too bad my pet doesn't eat fish ^^
ArPharazonV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Well, off I go. Take care all, good night, sleep well, and have fun.