Meeting Minutes 10-12-2025

Sunday, October 12, 2025

5:00pm Eastern Time

Discord: Valar Guild/meeting_place

Before-Meeting

Meeting Begins

[4:01 PM]Varda: @Bounder @Guild-friend Yay! Valar Guild meeting time in meeting_place. Come on in and say hi!

Membership

[4:04 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:04 PMVarda: And thanks to Eonwe who caught that I was typing in Harbor instead of meeting_place. /facepalm

[New member Earendil-(V) was called on to give the traditional few words" to introduce himself to the group, at the end of the Gaming section. :)

Web

[4:05 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:05 PMVarda: Yay! New story good for both the Tolkien Site and Anniversary page.

[4:06 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:06 PMVarda: "Narn I Auros: Pursuit", a new story by Eonwe-(Valar) featuring uneven sibling rivalry between student and teacher.

[4:07 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:07 PMVarda: Short story in the Narn I Auros series, but works as a stand-alone.

[4:08 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:08 PMEönwë Valar: But don't miss your chance to read the other 30 or so stories and counting, lol.

[4:09 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:09 PMEönwë Valar: Agent Smith voice: "Stories need love like everything does."

[4:12 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:12 PMVarda: Any other membership or web news?

Gaming

World of Warcraft:

[4:15 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:15 PMEönwë Valar: This week's bonus event: World Quests.

[4:16 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:16 PMEönwë Valar: But I won't be bothering with either of those, because...

[4:16 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:16 PMEarendil: Some conversations just steal the time from you...

[4:16 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:16 PMEönwë Valar: Legion Remix is live. Plenty of fun and rewards are to be had.

[4:16 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:16 PMVarda: And that's where we'll find Eonwe. : )

[4:19 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:19 PMEönwë Valar: My Legion Remix character is Narloth, Half-Elf Paladin, aka "Red", and if you want to hear about her adventures so far, I've been sharing that in this very meeting channel throughout the week. More no doubt to come as she triumphs over each and every obstacle for the next 99-ish days. And if you don't know why her nickname is "Red", go take a look at the "group photo" of her and my previous Remix characters in the Screenshots channel.

[4:19 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:19 PMEarendil: Aiya...Sandalf? Awesome wordplay sir. Or is that name play?

[4:21 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:21 PMEönwë Valar: If you're staying in retail WoW, Turbo Boost is incrementing its way out this time. Item Level cap is currently raised, but crest cap and Valor Point transfers won't become available until next week. World of Warcraft Legion Remix Content Update Notes

[4:22 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:22 PMEönwë Valar: Midnight is moving into alpha phase 2 and they've released some info on the pre-expansion content update.

[4:22 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:22 PMEönwë Valar: Check out WoW Weekly for anything not mentioned above.

[4:22 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:22 PMEönwë Valar: Check out this week's hotfixes.

[4:23 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:23 PMEönwë Valar: Some fixes for Legion Remix in there too, like getting World Quests working.

Hearthstone:

Diablo IV:

[4:24 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:24 PMEönwë Valar: Diablo 4: The next Sanctuary Sitdown is coming October 16th.

Diablo Immortal:

[4:24 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:24 PMEönwë Valar: Diablo Immortal: Hallow's Wake returns.

Overwatch 2:

[4:25 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:25 PMEönwë Valar: A new Weekly Recall is out: Animation Station.

StarCraft 2:

[4:25 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:25 PMEönwë Valar: Starcraft 2: A hotfix patch is live.

[4:25 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:25 PMVarda: StarCraft 2: Eowyn, Fangorn, Floppa, Varda together. Faramir and Eowyn together.

Lord of the Rings Online:

[4:26 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:26 PMEönwë Valar: Lord of the Rings Online:

[4:26 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:26 PMEönwë Valar: Transfers are available once again from closed 32-bit worlds to the open 64-bit worlds. If you missed your chance to transfer before, now is your chance. --- https://www.lotro.com/news/lotro-dark-worlds-transfers-en The Lord of the Rings Online Free Transfers from Former 32-bit Game Worlds to 64-bit Game Worlds... Free transfers are once again available from our former 32-bit game worlds to our 64-bit game worlds. Read more about transfers from these “dark worlds” on LOTRO.com.

[4:27 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:27 PMEönwë Valar: Free transfers are also available between select 64-bit servers. --- https://www.lotro.com/news/lotro-64-bit-transfers-october-25-en The Lord of the Rings Online Free Transfers Available From Select 64-bit Game Worlds We are offering free transfers from several of our 64-bit game worlds through Tuesday, November 4th. See which worlds are available here.

[4:27 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:27 PMVarda: Harvestmath event has begun. : )

[4:28 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:28 PMEönwë Valar: And that's it for my news.

[4:29 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:29 PMVarda: Earendil is with us today, and as our newest member, I'm asking if he would like to say a few words to introduce himself to the gang. : )

[4:31 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:31 PMEönwë Valar: For some reason, what I'm thinking now is "O'Doyle Rules" (Name that movie reference).

[4:32 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:32 PMEarendil: So, hi everyone. Obviously I'm new here, although I've knwon Varda and company awhile. I wanted to share how I came to love lord of the rings and just reading and thinking in general, as it's relevant to a big life event recently. About 2 months ago, my father passed and like all of us I owe my father a lot. When we were young, my brother and I, he wanted us to love learning and so he took time out of his hard days to read to us every night. The first stories I remember where the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings.

[4:33 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:33 PMVarda: Quite a hearty read for young ones.

[4:34 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:34 PMEarendil: It would come to shape so much of who I am to have those experiences, and I'm glad I get to tell you all these things. It's a way for me to remember that Dad's still affecting people even today. I'm sure there are appropriate quotes that say these things better, mostly though...I wish he could have seen me use the craft stations at Rivendell. Wow, he would have laughed himself crazy.

[4:35 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:35 PMEarendil: That's been awesome, getting to see the game world on LOTRO. I don't know how neither of us knew it existed until recently.

[4:36 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:36 PMEarendil: Currently wandering the world just enjoying the scenery and delicious goblins (beorning).

[4:38 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:38 PMArien Valar: Glad to have you, Earendil and well met Mae Govannen

[4:40 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:40 PMVarda: And for what brought you here in the first place...

Tolkien

[4:40 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:40 PMVarda: What are some characters that directly affected the travel path of the One Ring to Mt. Doom? Let's go along the path with the Ring and discuss.

[4:41 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:41 PMVarda: Sauron in battle is struck down. Isildur cuts the Ring from his finger.

[4:41 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:41 PMVarda: The Ring, now separated from Sauron, wants only to reunite and be whole since it has a part of Sauron within, so it affects its own travel when it can.

[4:41 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:41 PMVarda: So, how did that go for the Ring?

[4:42 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:42 PMSandalf13: I would say the the Ring, if it was indeed sentient, was gloating to itself that "Hey...this whole trip thing has worked out better than I thought it would! Soon I will be back in Mordor with my super-Bro, and having a bang-up time doing evil and mayhem.

[4:43 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:43 PMVarda: It should have been just perfect.

[4:43 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:43 PMVarda: Isildur's caravan is attacked by Orcs. He slips the Ring on his finger and escapes invisibly, swimming in the river to escape. The Ring wants to be with the Orcs to return to Sauron, so it enlarges and falls off Isildur's finger. Isildur is seen and slain in the water, so the Ring falls to the bottom of the river instead of being retrieved by an Orc.

[4:43 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:43 PMVarda: Many years later, still with mud on its gold, what happens?

[4:44 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:44 PMArien Valar: well some kind of hobbit creature finds it while fishing in that same river . he gets dragged by a big fish

[4:44 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:44 PMSandalf13: Some grains of sand migrating downstream on the bed of the Anduin decide to flow right by the Ring, carrying away the mud that covered it, and exposing its bright, shiny surface to the light once again.

[4:45 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:45 PMSandalf13: Probably incipient ripple marks, you know.

[4:45 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:45 PMEarendil: It's finding by Deagol (forgive my spelling if it's incorrect) is pretty momentous. If he'd been a better fighter than Smeagol it'd be a different tale.

[4:46 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:46 PMSandalf13: Surely Deagol would have fallen to the evil lure of the Ring as well, do you not think so?

[4:46 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:46 PMSandalf13: Smeagol just got there quicker.

[4:46 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:46 PMVarda: Aye, but Smeagol had a bad streak too.

[4:46 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:46 PMVarda: The Ring probably felt that homey feeling and called to him.

[4:47 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:47 PMArien Valar: well yeah . .. Deagol was kind of forced to show it to Smeagol and Smeagol thought it should be his

[Surely Deagol would have fallen to the evil lure of the Ring as well, do you not think so?

[4:48 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:48 PMEarendil: Eventually yes, but what if he'd done it publicly instead of hiding it like Smeagol?

[4:48 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:48 PMArien Valar: so he killed Deagol .. that deed made him the obvious choice by the ring

[4:48 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:48 PMVarda: Should have been his, for his birthday, even though Deagol already bought him one, more than he could afford.

[4:49 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:49 PMVarda: And boy, this one was high cost!

[4:49 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:49 PMVarda: It lies there, mostly dormant, until Sauron stirs again, his power waking the Ring. When a hobbit named Deagol found a gleam at the bottom of the river and retrieved it, we have the first of what begins to look deliberate over time. Whenever the Ring tries to leave, a hobbit of some sort takes it.

[4:49 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:49 PMVarda: This can't be pleasing to the One Ring.

[4:49 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:49 PMVarda: So the Ring tries to leave Deagol by inspiring desire for it in Smeagol, who murders Deagol for it. He uses the Ring to sneak invisibly and spy out secrets for blackmail of his people, until he is banished. He eventually goes under a mountain looking for the secrets at its roots, but finds none, not realizing that he and the Ring are the secret.

[4:50 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:50 PMSandalf13: Frustrating, at least, I assume.

[4:50 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:50 PMSandalf13: Any Hobbits, more than any other people of Middle-earth, had a peculiar desensitivit to the evil effects of the Ring.

[4:51 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:51 PMVarda: Strange isn't it, as if they are meant to find the Ring...

[4:51 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:51 PMArien Valar: and a thing with holes in the air

[4:51 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:51 PMEarendil: The most underrated racial gift in all of middle earth.

[4:51 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:51 PMSandalf13: Part of Iluatar's game plan, if you adhere to the Biblical reason that everything that happens to us, or the events that occur on ARda, are "meant to be...," a part of a Divine Plan.

[4:52 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:52 PMVarda: It's also in Tolkien, so aye in all ways there.

[4:52 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:52 PMSandalf13: Well, Tolkien was a big Bible guy, after all.

[4:52 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:52 PMVarda: Many years later, the goblinoid orcs are disturbed by dwarves and a hobbit. Gollum hopes to take advantage and find orc lunch, while the Ring takes advantage to try to escape Gollum and be carried by a goblin. Once again it enlarges and falls from the finger. In the dark, the hobbit Bilbo picks up the Ring. Curses, foiled again.

[4:53 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:53 PMSandalf13: Those -- Hobbits! Always getting in the way of Progress. Something has to be done about that...but what?

[4:53 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:53 PMEarendil: Just gonna say it...the ring makes bad decisions.

[4:53 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:53 PMVarda: It's bad, makes bad decisions...

[4:54 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:54 PMVarda: Bilbo takes the Ring back to the Shire, to the inside of Bag End on a hill rather than a mountain, but kept again as a secret for a long time.

[4:55 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:55 PMArien Valar: until those -- Sackville Baggoms crossed his way once too many

[4:56 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:56 PMArien Valar: (i hope everyone speaks gobbledigooks ;_) )

[4:56 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:56 PMEarendil: I wonder if the ring somehow tried to work on the Sackville Bagginses like it did on Smeagol when they were nearby...making them worse than they were?

[4:57 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:57 PMSandalf13: So Merry saw the strangest thing one day, as he was out on a hike...he saw Bilbo observing Lobelia and put on a Ring that made him disappear! Startling!

[4:57 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:57 PMVarda: Bilbo and Frodo thought they were being secretive.

[4:59 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:59 PMVarda: Bilbo takes the Ring back to the Shire, to the inside of Bag End on a hill rather than a mountain, but kept again as a secret for a long time.

[4:59 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 4:59 PMEönwë Valar: Nothing in how we see them indicates they would've been any different had Bilbo not found the Ring. The biggest "problem" with their attitude is that Bilbo lived to be older than the average Hobbit, and that ruined their plans, particularly when Bilbo adopted Frodo. @Eönwë Valar Nothing in how we see them indicates they would've been any different had Bilbo not found the Ring. The biggest "problem" with their attitude is that Bilbo lived to be older than the average Hobbit, and that ruined their plans, particularly when Bilbo adopted Frodo.

[5:00 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:00 PMVarda: Aye. They were already unpleasant when Bilbo first went off with the dwarves.

[5:01 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:01 PMVarda: At last, Bilbo passes the Ring on as a legal inheritance to his adopted nephew, Frodo. For the first time since Sauron, the Ring has a legal owner, perhaps giving Frodo more power over it than anyone else has had.

[5:01 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:01 PMVarda: Frodo is also an exceptionally fine hobbit with all that he wants, so that he has no ambition outside caring for that and the Shire in which he lives. This is the direct opposite of Sauron's will. @Varda At last, Bilbo passes the Ring on as a legal inheritance to his adopted nephew, Frodo. For the first time since Sauron, the Ring has a legal owner, perhaps giving Frodo more power over it than anyone else has had.

[5:02 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:02 PMEarendil: Now THAT's a twist...bound by legal documents!

[5:04 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:04 PMSandalf13: Were they strictly "legal?" I mean, the Ring was in an envelope with a simple letter addressed to Frodo...hardly a "legal" document, as no other signatories or witnesses were mentions...I suppose that the "gift" of the Ring to Frodo had the same legal weight as a letter of intent...a document usually attached to a legal will, and so on.

[5:04 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:04 PMEönwë Valar: Gandalf was the executor in that matter.

[5:04 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:04 PMVarda: They do go into the many signatures and whatnot, very legal. It's just part of the rest.

[5:04 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:04 PMEarendil: See, the power of law has reached us even here...changing our speech...

[5:05 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:05 PMSandalf13: Time to call in an attorney for an expert opinion on this?

[5:05 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:05 PMVarda: The rest of the gifting at the Party was to make it easier to pass along the One Ring as an inheritance, very difficult.

[5:06 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:06 PMVarda: One of those that pass along everything he isn't carrying on his back.

[5:06 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:06 PMEönwë Valar: Gandalf the Grey, Wizard, member of the White Council. I think his references speak for themselves... though not all glowingly. Then again, judging a man by his enemies, that's a rather spectacular resume of enemies too.

[5:06 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:06 PMEarendil: I would imagine Sauron would have the better lawyers...better play it safe and quest to destroy the evidence

[5:07 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:07 PMSandalf13: I agree...Sauron would have kept a stable-full of attornies, ready to trot them out to do his behest whenever he had need of their legal services...I would put them in the same class as ambulance chasers, if that good.

[5:07 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:07 PMVarda: If anyone needs to leave to sleep, it is the hour. Tough on some time zones.

[5:07 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:07 PMVarda: The Mouth of Sauron comes to mind.

After-Meeting

[5:08 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:08 PMVarda: One must figure that to the Ring's horror, it is escorted by a group of hobbits! They are supposed to take the Ring to Bree to Gandalf

[5:09 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:09 PMVarda: The Nazgul frighten the hobbits off of the regular road and they need to cut through the Old Forest, where they are rescued by Tom Bombadil from Old Man Willow and the wights of the Barrow-downs.

[5:10 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:10 PMVarda: Quite a road the Ring is taking.

[5:11 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:11 PMArien Valar: I raise doubt of the evidence and request to adjurn the process also failing ability to follow the way of reconstruction of the case your honor

[5:12 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:12 PMVarda: We shall endeavor to prove the evidence is evidentiary.

[5:13 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:13 PMEönwë Valar: New group pic of my Remix characters (Current and old) in the screenshot channel, for fun

[5:13 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:13 PMArien Valar: in other words .. i have to call it .. i really have trouble typing now .. i was on early today as Eonwe k nows

[5:13 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:13 PMEönwë Valar: Red made it to 80, she needed to show it off, heh.

[5:13 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:13 PMSandalf13: Going back to your earlier comment, Varda, I suspect the Mouth of Sauron was a civil defense attorney, frequently used in insurance and personal law.

[5:13 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:13 PMEarendil: Sorry, busy running from a terrifying badger near rivendell...I really need to level more..

[5:14 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:14 PMVarda: The sun must set so it may rise again! Namarie,☼

[5:14 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:14 PMSandalf13: THat smile of his in the Movie "said" it all...no pun intended.

[5:14 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:14 PMVarda: The hobbits are then equipped with ancient rune-magicked swords that they would not otherwise have had, and that came from the time of fighting the Witch-king.

[5:16 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:16 PMVarda: So Tom was necessary to the path of the Ring, skipping the Nazgul on the road, and providing important equipment

[5:16 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:16 PMSandalf13: The Mouth of Sauron in an earlier day...

[5:16 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:16 PMVarda: But someone steps in! Not a lawyer...

[5:17 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:17 PMVarda: He's well started to that smile, aye!

[5:17 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:17 PMSandalf13: But a Loremaster (among many other things)!

[5:17 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:17 PMVarda: The Ring tries to escape the Hobbits, lots of humans around!

[5:18 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:18 PMVarda: and yet, the finger it lands on is...

[5:18 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:18 PMVarda: nope, not a human. Foiled again!

[5:18 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:18 PMVarda: Even missed the odd part-goblinoids that it might have hoped to travel with.

[5:19 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:19 PMEönwë Valar: Either the best or worst solution to the "matter of the Ring":

[5:19 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:19 PMSandalf13: Stupid Ring...can't even find a good finger to slip on to!

[5:20 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:20 PMVarda: Point of view. : ) Not good to the Ring's way of seeing, but a good person.

[5:20 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:20 PMSandalf13: I meant to put "good" in quotation marks...the Ring would have probably preferred an evil finger, yes?

[5:21 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:21 PMVarda: A human to lead to a goblinoid. They were in Bree!

[5:21 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:21 PMVarda: That was a strong possibility for the Ring

[5:21 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:21 PMEönwë Valar: There it is, there's the finger.

[I meant to put "good" in quotation marks...the Ring would have probably preferred an evil finger, yes?

[5:22 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:22 PMEarendil: At this point it would probably have preferred just okay...

[5:22 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:22 PMSandalf13: Now Dr. Evil could have REALLY done some evil with the One Ring!

[5:23 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:23 PMVarda: So the awfulness happened, no Gandalf, no news of Gandalf, no idea what to do next, more or less no. @Earendil At this point it would probably have preferred just okay...

[5:23 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:23 PMEönwë Valar: Or "motivated." The Ring can work with "motivated." It can't work with "sit on my porch blowing smoke rings."

[5:23 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:23 PMVarda: For some reason, a ranger, not just any ranger mind you, is sitting right there.

[5:24 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:24 PMSandalf13: He is the Loremaster (among other things) that I hurriedly referred to earlier...

[5:24 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:24 PMVarda: I keep waiting for name-dropping but y'all aren't into that. : )

[5:25 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:25 PMSandalf13: Tolkien carefully orchestrates the temptation of the Ring by "offering" to each of the major players in the alliance opposed to Sauron. First Frodo offers it to Gandalf, who refuses it.

[5:25 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:25 PMEarendil: Which name? Stryder, Aragorn...guy's gotta pick one..

[5:26 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:26 PMSandalf13: Then Aragorn declines his chance to seize the Ring in Bree....even if it could help him realize all of his wishes.

[5:26 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:26 PMEönwë Valar: There are two things we don't drop here: names and eaves.

[5:26 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:26 PMVarda: Well ok. Gandalf wouldn't wish it. : )

[5:26 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:26 PMSandalf13: Elrond refuses it at the Council. In a dramatic moment, Galadriel refuses the Ring as well, after coming to terms with herself.

[5:26 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:26 PMVarda: Tom isn't even interested in taking it.

[5:27 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:27 PMEönwë Valar: I sense a joke in there, that Elrond was like "nope" and Galadriel had to get all dramatic.

[5:27 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:27 PMVarda: : ) 5:27 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:27 PMSandalf13: Boromir alone among the major players fell to the allure of the Ring. I am pretty sure that Denethor, who certainly had the power to wield it, would not have fared so well as Faramir...

[5:27 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:27 PMVarda: Boromir was not supposed to be there. Was supposed to be Faramir. Another back-up Man!

[5:27 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:27 PMVarda: It was not supposed to go near Denethor!

[5:28 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:28 PMSandalf13: Galadriel was dramatic both in the Book AND in the movie...something Jackson did get right, amoung the many other things he got wrong.

[5:28 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:28 PMVarda: and yet he buried Rings of Power... : )

[5:28 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:28 PMEönwë Valar: Well, "supposed" by who? Might be better overall that it was Boromir in the Fellowship.

[5:28 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:28 PMVarda: The outcome was good. Boromir helped Frodo do what he must.

[5:29 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:29 PMSandalf13: Yet in the end, Boromir was able to redeem himself...a rare feat, as attested by Aragorn as he talked with the dying Boromir. "No...you have conquered..." Good line, that.

[5:29 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:29 PMEönwë Valar: The Fellowship needed to break to give the Free Peoples the best chance, and it needed something drastic to do so and set the resolve of its members. Boromir's fall and redemption was that catalyst.

[5:30 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:30 PMSandalf13: "Few have achieved such a victory...."

[5:30 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:30 PMEönwë Valar: Frodo needed the villain, Merry and Pippin needed the hero.

[5:30 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:30 PMVarda: Fredegar, Aragorn, Merry, and Pippin and Boromir decoying away pursuit.

[5:31 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:31 PMVarda: Boromir put up such an enormous fight defending those two hobbits that they must be the proper targets to nab!

[5:31 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:31 PMSandalf13: At least the Orcs thought so!

[5:32 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:32 PMVarda: And the air watch had already been shot down, didn't see Frodo and Sam leave in the boat.

[5:32 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:32 PMSandalf13: And both Merry and Pippin almost idolized Boromir from the start....

[5:34 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:34 PMEönwë Valar: Pippin and Merry saw what it was the be a knight from Boromir. To be the man giving it all for others, standing alone when there was no one else, giving even his last breath to do what he knew must be done.

[5:35 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:35 PMVarda: All of a sudden, they saw Men could be heroes!

[5:35 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:35 PMSandalf13: A heroic attitude at its finest...

[5:35 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:35 PMVarda: A Nordic mythology death with the addition of the Christian hero.

[5:36 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:36 PMSandalf13: I think that that image of Boromir standing up to the Orcs in defense of Merry and Pippin stuck with both of them a long time...and was in their minds, especially Merry's, as he struck the blow that led to the demise of the Witch King of Angmar.

[5:36 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:36 PMEönwë Valar: Boromir wasn't a perfect man, but he was a man who strove to do the right thing, for his family, for his friends, and for his people.

[5:37 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:37 PMSandalf13: "She should not die alone, unaided..." thought Merry, even though it could have cost his life going to the defense of Eowyn.

[5:37 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:37 PMVarda: It gave them a better attitude towards Men in general. Enough so Pippin fought for Beregond, and the protection for Faramir.

[5:38 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:38 PMVarda: We skipped Lorien. That had to be tough on the Ring. Maybe it went dormant in self-deense. Then all out on Boromir.

[5:39 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:39 PMSandalf13: The Ring would have thought it a victory indeed to hook up with Boromir...

[5:39 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:39 PMEönwë Valar: Ring: "Ew hippy elves. Imma peace out for a bit."

[5:39 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:39 PMVarda: And before that, we had Caradhras the Cruel. (Not Saruman in the books.)

[5:39 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:39 PMVarda: That's a comment from Earendil-V, that it majorly changed the path the Ring took.

[5:40 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:40 PMVarda: That lost them Gandalf. I wonder how he would have handled that time at the river.

[5:41 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:41 PMVarda: Could he have prevented or wanted to prevent the incident with Boromir? Changed their path?

[5:41 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:41 PMSandalf13: I suspect that it was Gandalf's plan for him along to go with Frodo to Mt. Doom...at least I always thought so. MAybe along with Legolas and Gimli?

[5:42 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:42 PMEönwë Valar: Gandalf's presence would've changed the dynamic. That's why he couldn't be there.

[5:42 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:42 PMSandalf13: He had his own battles to face, yes?

[5:42 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:42 PMEönwë Valar: Boromir wouldn't have made a move with that "wizard" lurking close by. But a man, and Elf, and a Dwarf? A little care is all that's needed.

[5:43 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:43 PMVarda: So the decoys might not have happened the same way. All those orcs left with Merry and Pippin.

[5:43 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:43 PMSandalf13: In the UT, it is related that Olorin told Manwe that he feared Sauron...I suspect he also feared the Balrog, knowing what it really was.

[5:43 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:43 PMSandalf13: Yet he stood up to the Balrog in Moria, at great cost to himself.

[5:44 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:44 PMVarda: He had a strong idea that it could happen and he would be in deep trouble.

[5:44 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:44 PMVarda: No one else could stand up to it.

[5:44 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:44 PMSandalf13: So as Eonwe correctly pointed out, Gandalf was NOT present at the critical decision-making time.

[5:45 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:45 PMVarda: He had trained them best he could.

[5:45 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:45 PMVarda: And since we are way over time. How about the path through Ithilien that the Ring found itself on?

[5:46 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:46 PMVarda: It may have been fine with going to Denethor.

[5:46 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:46 PMSandalf13: And Aragorn correctly assessed that "the Fellowship has played its part," and he made the decision to follow the Orcs, along with Gimli and Legolas, who more-or-less ceded the decision making to Aragorn, a Man.

[5:46 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:46 PMVarda: Anyway, we have a parallel with Gandalf and Boromir sacrificing themselves.

[5:47 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:47 PMVarda: And making us wonder if we were reading George R Martin...

[5:47 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:47 PMVarda: Oh, and in Ithilien, another cave!

[5:47 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:47 PMEönwë Valar: I was going to say real quick, that Olorin's skillset ("pity and understanding"), while ideal for his role of "guide and succour" wasn't the right skillset to put in direct conflict with a Balrog ("combat"). He likely spent alot of time as Gandalf gaining that skillset, if only to survive in Middle-Earth. Wonder how long he spent in the Havens or in Rivendell until he was deemed a master swordsman, heh.

[5:48 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:48 PMSandalf13: Do you mean the Ephel Duath?

[5:48 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:48 PMVarda: He had all the "time" needed in the Timeless Halls.

[5:49 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:49 PMVarda: But also as Gandalf the Grey, he was only supposed to be an advisor, not a fighter. When all the other Istari were mostly unavailable, he needed to fight.

[5:49 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:49 PMEönwë Valar: Manwë could've learned to be a smith like Aulë in the Timeless Halls, but he had other interests (besides Varda, of course, heh)

[5:49 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:49 PMSandalf13: According to the LoTR maps, Ithilien more-or-less ended near the northwestern corner of Mordor, where the two ranges of mountains came together at the Black Gate. A real geological oddity, that one.

[5:50 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:50 PMSandalf13: And on the east side of the Dead Marshes, as well.

[5:51 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:51 PMEönwë Valar: Well, Manwë had to make a living, and "Wind-dude" sounds cool, but it doesn't put food on the table like "Elder King" does.

[5:51 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:51 PMVarda: Ithilien was feeling the debilitating effects from Mordor, on its boundary. One reason Legolas and other Mirkwood elves moved there later to repair it.

[5:51 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:51 PMVarda: And we have to feed all of those Vanyar hanging out around the mountain.

[5:52 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:52 PMSandalf13: Yet Frodo and Sam both felt the reviving spirit of Ithilien that remained in that place, even after being "exposed" to Mordor for so long...

[5:52 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:52 PMVarda: So Frodo thinks he should go to the Black Gate to enter, but the path is once again shifted.

[5:53 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:53 PMVarda: Aye, Sandalf, a lot of good in that forest.

[5:54 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:54 PMVarda: Seems like the Black Gate has Watchers and, yep, a gate.

[5:54 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:54 PMVarda: The Ring would have been fine with

[5:54 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:54 PMSandalf13: I wonder...do you think that Shelob, a descendant of Ungoliant, would have disregarded the Ring if she had ever gotten around to "eating" Frodo? I think it likely...so she would not have been a good choice for the Ring to seek out.

[5:55 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:55 PMEönwë Valar: You think the Black Gate might've been a Golden Gate when Sauron was still dressed to impress? heh.

[5:55 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:55 PMVarda: Gollum expected her to disregard it and then he could take the Ring afterwards.

[5:55 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:55 PMSandalf13: After all, all Ungoliant wanted was the light of the Two Trees...not any Ellvish trinkets or the like...

[5:56 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:56 PMSandalf13: So Gollum was smart enough to have figured out Shelob pretty well...not bad for a five-hundred-year-old (or so) Hobbit.

[5:56 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:56 PMVarda: Ungoliant was a power herself, didn't need the Ring which only had a part of Sauron's power. Sauron was a lieutenant of Morgoths, not Morgoth.

[5:56 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:56 PMVarda: Gollum was called Shelob's "sneak".

[5:57 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:57 PMSandalf13: And speaking of being fed, I am overdue for a feeding. Will return soon. Namarie for now!

[5:57 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:57 PMVarda: We are very overtime. Enjoy your meal!

[5:58 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:58 PMVarda: So the Ring expected to go to the orcs in the tower and then to Sauron.

[5:58 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:58 PMVarda: Another hobbit. Underground again.

[5:58 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:58 PMVarda: Hobbits are good underground. : ) Hole-dwellers, the little people.

[5:59 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 5:59 PMVarda: And he had Bilbo's sword. Sting, named for its early attacks on intelligent spiders in Mirkwood.

[6:00 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:00 PMVarda: So many webs interconnecting in the story.

[6:00 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:00 PMVarda: Ok, this meeting is now at the hour after the hour. : )

[6:00 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:00 PMEönwë Valar: Spiders... webs. icwutudidthar

[6:01 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:01 PMVarda: Anyway, the Ring's path went with Sam and noooo! back to Frodo!

[6:02 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:02 PMVarda: But no problem. We're going into Mordor, tons of armies, orcs... and there they all went after Aragorn's lot!

[6:02 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:02 PMVarda: On go the hobbits to, yep, a mountain (volcano), and of course, inside!

[6:03 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:03 PMEönwë Valar: Usually there's no taksies-backsies.

[6:03 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:03 PMVarda: But the Ring has it under control. The only ones present are old and new ringbearers!

[6:03 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:03 PMVarda: Not one can hurt the Ring! No other Fellowship members are present for a tackle or a push!

[6:04 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:04 PMVarda: Gollum was addicted terribly to the Ring and would not leave its trail.

[6:04 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:04 PMVarda: On the way, he made oaths to Frodo on the Ring, so that when his addiction took over and he bit off the Ring (which remained on Frodo's finger, similar to the start of the path when Isildur had cut it from Sauron)

[6:04 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:04 PMVarda: Just before entering Mount Doom, Frodo clasped the Ring under his leather shirt and warned Gollum:

[6:05 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:05 PMEönwë Valar: Gollum Probably: "Precious left us. Precious doesn't loves us. If Precious gives us another chance, we'll prove we're the best for Precious, yes love. gollum gollum"

[6:06 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:06 PMVarda: and Gollum swears to this on the Precious. Frodo is at that time clutching the Precious through his leather shirt.

[6:06 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:06 PMVarda: so that when his addiction took over and he bit off the Ring (which remained on Frodo's finger, similar to the start of the path when Isildur had cut it from Sauron), Gollum was forced as if by accidental misstep to fall over the cliff into the fire as sworn.

[and Gollum swears to this on the Precious. Frodo is at that time clutching the Precious through his leather shirt.

[6:07 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:07 PMVarda: I swear on my best friend's life, does not mean physical touching.

[6:08 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:08 PMVarda: Frodo has the Ring in his hand, with insulation. Gollum swears to the Ring which hears this, so to speak.

[6:08 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:08 PMVarda: Gollum must not hurt Frodo or he will be cast into the Fire of Doom.

[6:09 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:09 PMVarda: Gollum lawyers up. If he is the bearer of the Ring himself, no problem.

[6:09 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:09 PMEönwë Valar: Frodo swore him to obedience at the beginning to keep him at bay, warning him a few times the kind of fate he'd face.

[6:09 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:09 PMVarda: But Gollum bites off Frodo's finger to get the Ring.

[6:09 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:09 PMVarda: The movie does not show this, but in the book, Gollum is holding the finger.

[6:10 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:10 PMVarda: The Ring "thinks" it is on Frodo, not on Gollum!

[6:10 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:10 PMVarda: So Gollum is dancing around by the ledge. A little push, what fun. And it (the Ring) is very powerful here.

[6:11 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:11 PMVarda: Over Gollum goes. The Ring is safe on Frodo, but

[6:11 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:11 PMVarda: the path changed! It is going with Gollum!

[6:11 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:11 PMEönwë Valar: Pathfinder. Path of Exile.

[6:12 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:12 PMVarda: Ok, I'm going to take a break now that we reached the end of the path. : )

[6:18 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:18 PMEarendil: Wow. To think how much power Frodo's virtue gave him access to when holding the ring...that's the definition of prophesying things into existence. Speak it, say it, it occurs. In his own way this destroyed the ring because it could not overcome itself when it willed the thing he'd spoken into existence.

[6:19 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:19 PMEarendil: The movie absolutely botched that scene, that didn't come across.

[6:56 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:56 PMEönwë Valar: Wow, remembering how much I hated alot of the Kirin Tor dailies in Legion.

[6:57 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 6:57 PMEönwë Valar: Except the barrel shuffle.

[7:01 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:01 PMAr-Pharazon-V: As for your mention of an azsuna achievement, I am planning on taking it achievement by achievement like I did in Panda.

[7:03 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:03 PMEönwë Valar: The Lorerunner ones will get you more infinite knowledge = more infinite power, so worth being at the top of your list.

[7:03 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:03 PMAr-Pharazon-V: I'll probably just take it by zone, but that's good to know.

[7:03 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:03 PMEönwë Valar: I figured you would, but more power = faster questing, so thought you should know :}

[7:05 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:05 PMEönwë Valar: Gear and Infinite power are how you'll boost damage. The little dribbles of stats from just doing stuff is only stamina this time around.

[7:09 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:09 PMAr-Pharazon-V: No more crest-cap? Oh, that's good. I've been punching that ceiling for a few weeks now.

[7:13 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:13 PMAr-Pharazon-V: And welcome Earendil, if you read this in the future

[7:13 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:13 PMAr-Pharazon-V: Always nice to meet an ancestor.

[7:22 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:22 PMAr-Pharazon-V: Legalities of the inheritance documents aside, is it really legal if the person you're inheriting it/being gifted it from wasn't the legal owner in the first place? I can't imagine that inheriting stolen goods gives you any legal advantage over the person it was stolen from.

[7:28 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:28 PMEönwë Valar: Isildur took it as weregild, which had its own legal precedents of the time, then was lost and found by Deagol. At that point Deagol would be the legal owner. Gollum killed him and stole it. After some 500 years I doubt there's still anyone of Deagol's lineage to inherit. The hazy question is Bilbo taking it from Smeagol, but as we established he had no legal claim to it anyway and a thief shouldn't be shocked if he's stolen from, and the Ring having a mind of its own left him, I think there's some justification to legitimize Frodo's claim.

[7:29 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:29 PMEönwë Valar: We could say that Aragorn has some claim to it, as Frodo does in the story, but Aragorn wanted none of that.

[7:30 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:30 PMAnarion: Wait, I'm probably at a disadvantage coming late to the conversation, but how is the legitimate owner of the ring not it's maker in this case?

[7:31 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:31 PMAnarion: It isn't like he's not still alive to maintain title at the time

[7:38 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:38 PMEönwë Valar: Well, part of it depends on if you think it's ok for Sauron to own something he intended to use to enslave all of Middle-Earth.

[7:39 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:39 PMEönwë Valar: The other part, as mentioned above, is about ancient legal precedents involving the weregild. Isildur says he took the Ring as a weregild for his father and brother. Sauron killed them.

[7:41 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:41 PMAnarion: Ah, I see. In that case Sauron would actually have no title at all, so it wouldn't revert back to him even if it was stolen by Gollum

[7:41 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:41 PMAnarion: That definitely supports the Aragorn theory IMO

[7:42 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:42 PMAnarion: Wait, that means Boromir would've thought that he would have rightful title to the ring

[7:42 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:42 PMEönwë Valar: And I should clarify one thing: not just "intended to use to enslave all of Middle-Earth." I should've said "made good on that promise, and would've succeeded halfway through the Second Age if not for the Numenoreans."

[7:43 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:43 PMAr-Pharazon-V: flex Oh wait, halfway through.

[7:43 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:43 PMAnarion: Yes, generally wartime property goes like that also

[7:43 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:43 PMEönwë Valar: He showed a willingness and a penchant to subjugate the Free Peoples of Middle Earth using the Ring. It was well-established as a weapon wielded against his enemies by the time any question of Isildur taking it came into being.

[7:43 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:43 PMAr-Pharazon-V: And Boromir already knew who Aragorn was, so as heir to Isildur in particular, he know he (Boromir) would not have a claim to the Ring.

[7:44 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:44 PMAnarion: Oh, that's the movie messing me up then

[7:44 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:44 PMEönwë Valar: Aye, another argument: spoils of war and all that.

[7:45 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:45 PMAr-Pharazon-V: Not sure I'd trust any legal system built around "spoils of war" but history's written by the winner, I guess.

[7:46 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:46 PMSandalf13: How true that is...I'm back! (a la Arnold Schwarzeneger)

[7:47 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:47 PMEönwë Valar: That's typically been the rule of war. It's a rather recent idea that a nation just takes over a place then gives it all back to the conquered people.

[7:49 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:49 PMAr-Pharazon-V: Yeah, true. Frankly, if we go down that rabbit-hole, we get to how morality changes over the centuries, the subjectivity of law, and whether anything about war should be "lawful" to begin with. Actually, let's skip all that and say that, in addition to history being written by the winner, so is law.

[7:49 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:49 PMEönwë Valar: Not making a moral judgement on it, but how war typically goes is that the side who loses gives up something.

[7:50 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:50 PMAr-Pharazon-V: Which means that, going full circle (pun not intended), the legality of the ownership of the Ring is ultimately down to whoever's in charge at the time

[7:50 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:50 PMSandalf13: Wars are historically very easy to start, but very hard to end, for that very same reason.

[7:51 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:51 PMEönwë Valar: "Power resides where people believe it resides." --- Varys

[7:51 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:51 PMEönwë Valar: Took me a minute to remember the name.

[7:52 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:52 PMAr-Pharazon-V: Same, actually. I knew it started with Va-, so I ended up googling "Game of thrones va"... and seeing what came up.

[7:52 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:52 PMEönwë Valar: Even a clever loser can find himself in control over winners. I don't even have to leave Tolkien to point that out: Sauron.

[7:53 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:53 PMSandalf13: In the Breoadway show Pippin, Charlemagne relates to his son that "It is smarter to be lucky, and it is lucky to be smart." Sort of apropros, yes?

[7:54 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:54 PMAr-Pharazon-V: Is that along the lines of making your own luck?

[7:55 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:55 PMEönwë Valar: Being in the right place at the right time = luck; Realizing that you are in the right place at the right time and acting on it = making your own luck.

[7:55 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:55 PMAr-Pharazon-V: Don't forget making sure you are in the right place at the right time beforehand

[7:55 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:55 PMSandalf13: I might add that the latter case in your example, Eonwe, is also a function of being "smart."

[7:56 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:56 PMEönwë Valar: Clarified to saying "and acting on it"

[7:56 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:56 PMEönwë Valar: You can be lucky to be presented an opportunity, but if you botch it that's on you.

[7:58 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 7:58 PMEönwë Valar: Oh hey, I just realized they made these Motes stack higher than 10. Nice.

[8:02 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 8:02 PMEönwë Valar: Sorry, "they" = Blizzard. Was referring to something in WoW and trying not to give Phar spoilers, heh.

[8:02 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 8:02 PMAr-Pharazon-V: I'm trying to remember motes in Legion. All I can remember is the crafting stuff from BC.

[8:02 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 8:02 PMEönwë Valar: Just know that there are motes that stack beyond 10 and it's a good thing, lol.

[8:03 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 8:03 PMEönwë Valar: They're specific to Remix.

[8:04 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 8:04 PMAr-Pharazon-V: Anyway, afk as I make some dinner

[8:28 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 8:28 PMEönwë Valar: Random suggestion with a level of amusement: if you're ever bored or you need something to listen to and want something different, try your web browser's "read aloud" option on stories or articles on the website. Pronunciation won't be perfect, but in Edge at least you can pick a voice and it can provide some entertainment.

[8:35 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 8:35 PMEönwë Valar: Amusing to me to hear my stories in a British or Irish accent, heh.

[8:40 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 8:40 PMSandalf13: I am sorry, but I am having trouble getting the above to start. I opened up an article from the Valar Guild site in my Edge browser. I cannot find where the "read aloud" option is. Can you direct me?

[8:41 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 8:41 PMSandalf13: I did find a site, however, that relates German stories first in German with English subtitles and translation, and then a slow reading in German only, and then a reading in German at a normal pace. Good practice for me!

[8:42 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 8:42 PMEönwë Valar: right-click for the menu

[8:42 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 8:42 PMEönwë Valar: "Read Aloud" is an option in there.

[8:43 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 8:43 PMSandalf13: WOW!! IT works!!! It really works!! Fantastic!! Thank you so much for introducing me to something new! So far, all I got is a woman reading in a pretty tandard American English accent. Not bad. Clear and easily understandable.

[8:43 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 8:43 PMEönwë Valar: It should start reading and give you a new bar at the top that lets you choose the voice you want to hear reading the page.

[8:44 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 8:44 PMEönwë Valar: If not, just to the right of the URL area you should see something that looks like an "A"

[8:45 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 8:45 PMEönwë Valar: Right next to where you click to "Favorite" a page.

[8:45 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 8:45 PMEönwë Valar: Click on that a couple of times to toggle it until the bar comes up.

[8:45 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 8:45 PMEönwë Valar: Under "Voice Options" you can choose speed of speech as well as the voice you want to hear.

[8:46 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 8:46 PMEönwë Valar: And MP:} Hope you find it as entertaining as I do.

[8:48 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 8:48 PMSandalf13: It looks like it will be fun!! Thanks again!

[8:50 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 8:50 PMAr-Pharazon-V: Heh, sounds funny, maybe I should use it on one of my WoW biographies.

[8:57 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 8:57 PMEönwë Valar: Real fun picking a German or Irish voice to speak English.

[8:58 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 8:58 PMSandalf13: I should try that sometime...

[8:59 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 8:59 PMEönwë Valar: Keep in mind there's "English(Ireland)", and then actual "Irish" If you want the full effect, pick the latter, heh.

[8:59 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 8:59 PMEönwë Valar: If you want to understand it easily, pick the former, heh.

[9:00 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:00 PMAr-Pharazon-V: We talking actual Gaelic here?

[9:00 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:00 PMEönwë Valar: Well, "Irish" reads my story in English as was written, but with a very heavy Irish accent.

[9:04 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:04 PMAr-Pharazon-V: Of course the problem with text to voice is that they never pronounce my characters right. Doesn't work in WoW either.

[9:05 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:05 PMSandalf13: You can say that again...even my voice thing is pronouncing names improperly. But they try! OVerall, a good effort!

[9:06 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:06 PMEönwë Valar: Fun idea: type some Elvish text into a web page, then have the Welsh voice read it, heh.

[9:07 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:07 PMEönwë Valar: There's a few Elvish poems in the books. Would be entertaining

[9:07 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:07 PMAr-Pharazon-V: I mean, take my timerunner's name, Calyaxa.

[9:07 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:07 PMAr-Pharazon-V: If I told you it was based on -yaxe, the Elvish word for cow, you'd know it was pronounced cal-yaxa.

[9:08 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:08 PMAr-Pharazon-V: But someone in WoW thought it was Caly-axa and wondered if she was using an axe!

[9:08 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:08 PMAr-Pharazon-V: What would the AI make of it?

[9:08 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:08 PMSandalf13: All I know is that I would be fearful of anyone bearing the name Caly-axa.

[9:10 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:10 PMEönwë Valar: Try it in Welsh (=>Sindarin), then Finnish (=>Quenya) and see which one sounds better? :}

[9:11 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:11 PMAr-Pharazon-V: For clarity, she rides a yak

[9:12 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:12 PMEönwë Valar: In case I'm just that old: Olly olly oxen free

["Olly olly oxen free" () is a catchphrase or truce term used in children's games such as hide and seek, capture the flag, and kick the can to indicate that players who are hiding can come out into the open without losing the game or that the position of the sides in a game has changed (as in which side is on the field or which side is at bat or...""

[9:13 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:13 PMEönwë Valar: I was hoping the joke wasn't lost :}

[9:15 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:15 PMEönwë Valar: Listening to the Welsh voice read my story reminds me that when I'm not being lazy I should probably be pronouncing "Finnareth" with a long "e" sound for the first vowel, => "Fee-NAR-eth".

[9:19 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:19 PMEönwë Valar: Hmm, I thought the Legion had only infiltrated Dalaran, but my Artifact just revealed a spy out in the Gilneas outpost in Stormheim.

[9:20 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:20 PMEönwë Valar: Finnish reading English is something else.

[9:23 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:23 PMSandalf13: I can only imagine. What about someone reading with a Yiddish accent? Now that would be something to listen to! 9:23 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:23 PMAr-Pharazon-V: Just now starting to realize I've been doing Delve bosses wrong from the start. You're supposed to stagger and stack up the steel traps.

[9:25 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:25 PMEönwë Valar: No option for Yiddish, heh.

[9:26 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:26 PMEönwë Valar: Is there some debuff the traps give that I'm forgetting about?

[9:27 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:27 PMAr-Pharazon-V: Got it up to 8 stacks tonight, that's 1 mil per 3 seconds. Stack it up further, it could really make a difference.

[9:27 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:27 PMEönwë Valar: How were you doing it before?

[9:27 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:27 PMAr-Pharazon-V: Ignoring the traps and just burning the boss down slowly

[9:28 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:28 PMEönwë Valar: I do try to run him through the traps. If running through a new one refreshes the orginal time and keeps the new total stacks, I could probably do better about that too, but Ann has such an easy time already I'm either doing it right or not needing the help, heh.

[9:29 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:29 PMAr-Pharazon-V: Yeah, I don't really need it, but the bossfight is so slooow.

[9:30 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:30 PMAr-Pharazon-V: And you can't run him over the 4 traps Brann casts each time immediately, since they'll wear off before the next round. Still helps, but it's better to stagger the last 1 or 2.

[9:30 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:30 PMEönwë Valar: Yeah, if you're trying to keep a rolling dot and it refreshes full stacks with each one, then yeah, sounds like it's best to stagger if the traps let you.

[9:31 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:31 PMAr-Pharazon-V: Hmhm, that seems to be how it works, anyway.

[9:33 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:33 PMEönwë Valar: I could say I'll pay more attention next time I run a Delve, but Legion Remix, heh.

[9:34 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:34 PMAr-Pharazon-V: Still trying to do one a day. I think I'm about 6k undercoins out, and over 50 flickergates left to get as well

[9:44 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:44 PMEönwë Valar: I'm up to 104% exp boost.

[9:44 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:44 PMAr-Pharazon-V: Doesn't just come in 10s then?

[9:45 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:45 PMEönwë Valar: Some things you'll get offer 1%, aye. 1 or 10 seems to be it.

[9:54 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:54 PMAr-Pharazon-V: Right, crashing for a bit, then back for report

[9:54 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:54 PMAr-Pharazon-V: Thanks, should be back in a few hours.

[9:54 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:54 PMEönwë Valar: Maybe I'll have beaten a mythic raid solo by then, lol.

[9:55 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:55 PMEönwë Valar: (I'm kidding and I'm not even trying that this soon.)

[9:56 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 9:56 PMEönwë Valar: If I could beat a Mythic raid in Legion Remix right now I want a strobing LED light flame Ashbringer.

[10:00 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 10:00 PMEönwë Valar: Too bad Inarius' Charger isn't redder.

[10:18 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 10:18 PMSandalf13: Namarie once again...I must ready myself for work tomorrow, and the day soon ends. The mountains received another several inches of snow this weekend, and are covered in white once more...here, the trees are all bright yellow, and the strong wind today indeed resulted on the Fall of many leaves. Have a good week, and Namarie!

[10:41 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 10:41 PMVarda: Sounds beautiful, Sandalf. : )

[11:08 PM]Sunday, October 12, 2025 11:08 PMVarda: annnd going to fall asleep....zzzz

[3:23 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 3:23 AMEönwë Valar: Ew, spider Elves. I was happier having forgotten them.

[3:25 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 3:25 AMAr-Pharazon-V: Fal'dorei? Ooh, I'd forgotten them too

[3:26 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 3:26 AMAr-Pharazon-V: Anyway, I just dreamed about Remix so hard that I got more done than I have in the actual game, even though it was basically WoW 2 with a mishmash of zones, expansions and a bunch of new mechanics

[3:28 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 3:28 AMEönwë Valar: I might be tempted to try the Mythic+2 keystone before the reset.

[3:28 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 3:28 AMEönwë Valar: Thanks, heh. Worse thing that happens is I fail :}

[3:28 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 3:28 AMAr-Pharazon-V: Wasn't there an achievement for 30 or something?

[3:29 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 3:29 AMAr-Pharazon-V: For (non)flashgaming, several games this week I've mentioned before, and this time I'll choose Kongregate - Hat Wizard 2" because it's just simple and fun

[3:30 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 3:30 AMEönwë Valar: All I really want is the Green Flame Ashbringer, but if I'm soloing Mythic+30 dungeons, I think I'll have won World of Warcraft, heh.

[3:30 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 3:30 AMAr-Pharazon-V: A platformer where you make your way across each level, dodging enemies and teleporting yourself by throwing your hat on statues and enemies, to switch places with them.

[3:31 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 3:31 AMAr-Pharazon-V: This being nr 2, there's more levels, 60, as well as 32 pages of a Necronomicon to collect in a bunch of barely hidden spaces.

[3:36 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 3:36 AMEönwë Valar: Bah, gonna have to remember how to get the most out of the Withered Army.

[3:38 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 3:38 AMAr-Pharazon-V: Gotta train my withered in Suramar ♪

[Level 129 on the reward track, making some gold before the new expansion comes in. And used some of that gold to buy Infernal Armor Illidan, a demon hunter skin with a complimentary card back.

[3:48 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 3:48 AMAr-Pharazon-V: Completed the Hallow's End quest event, with the last quest being about healing, mostly with the death knight's leeches. Went about as well as I expected and I finished the weekly quest with days to spare, allowing me a few extra daily quests to get the entire track done as well. That got me a warrior quest card as random legendary, and a new warlock skin, Nightmare Zail.

[3:49 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 3:49 AMAr-Pharazon-V: I wonder what the next quest event is going to be, probably some preparation for the expansion.

[3:50 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 3:50 AMAr-Pharazon-V: Oh, there was also a shorter event for some ranked standard games to play and win, and get some free packs. I don't actually have any standard decks, so had the game throw one together, and got away with the questline in the minimal required games

[3:51 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 3:51 AMAr-Pharazon-V: Brawl this week is Aviana's Night. The first card you play each turn is free!

[3:51 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 3:51 AMAr-Pharazon-V: There's some strategic combos possible I'm sure, but I just put in a deck with the most expensive minions I could find and overwhelmed my enemy

[Still on the same collection level, but I did get a few more minis completing their 90k experience track and moving on to the 200k, earning them a level.

[3:53 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 3:53 AMAr-Pharazon-V: Considering the vast majority of my minis are now in the 80000s (I like to give xp to the option that's the furthest behind) I'm sure it won't be long before the levels start flowing in like a tsunami.

[3:54 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 3:54 AMAr-Pharazon-V: A few more days on the login reward event, which got me a few of the best experience tomes as well.

[3:55 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 3:55 AMAr-Pharazon-V: Also did some more Siege of Ironforge, getting a new wildcard slot, and handing it to Cairne Bloodhoof, the first horde leader. Still many wildcards to go, though luckily not as many needed as diamond slots.

[3:57 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 3:57 AMAr-Pharazon-V: In the heroic sigil campaign I completed Ramstein the Gorger with the beast family, getting me to 149 sigils out of 160. The next boss is another step up in level, and I'm having trouble with it, so maybe I'll wait for the tsunami

[3:58 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 3:58 AMAr-Pharazon-V: The level upgrades are for the Defias Bandit, which was also my first legendary, putting him at a whopping level 29 now. Only levels missing are the diamond slot and completing the 200k track. Too bad they're kinda niche and squishy or I'd put them everywhere

[3:59 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 3:59 AMAr-Pharazon-V: And the other level upgrade is for my favorite leader, Cenarius! That one is quite welcome. With some other minis in his army also being up there, it's getting to be quite powerful

[4:01 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 4:01 AMAr-Pharazon-V: Still raiding, still upgrading some gear. No new heroic bosses down.

[4:01 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 4:01 AMAr-Pharazon-V: Weekly is world quests, but I'm not really bothering with those, which gave me time for some other stuff this week.

[4:03 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 4:03 AMAr-Pharazon-V: Including wrapping up Brewfest! Got my tokens completed a day early, and bought all the cosmetics: the Barrel Helm, the Brewer's black and green sets, the Dark Iron's Ceremonial set, and a new toy called the Brewer's Balloon. It acts like a floating pet, but disappears after not very long, alas. No cooldown on it though, but having to replenish it so often kinda takes the fun out of it if you want to use it for longer times ;)

[4:04 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 4:04 AMAr-Pharazon-V: I also visited the Trading Post, getting the Legion Forged Elekk as a reward mount. Not sure who it would suit. Probably an Eredar-skinned Draenei.

[4:06 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 4:06 AMAr-Pharazon-V: I also bought the Faded Sweatsuit ensemble, as apparently I've taken to collecting the rather cheap sweatsuits in all colors, the Horseman's Hallowed Blade which might fit my prot pally, and a new pet called the Rustyroot Fel Snooter. A capybara that's supposedly a blue recolor from a fel version, but the colors and horns just make him look like he's from Ardenweald.

[4:06 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 4:06 AMAr-Pharazon-V: And I love stuff from Ardenweald, so that's fine

[4:09 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 4:09 AMAr-Pharazon-V: Also more delves! My gear's now strong enough to glide through tier 11s quite easily, though I'm not sure I want to try it as dps instead of tank. Maybe in the next half of the season, though I don't know if I have enough gear upgrades left. The lifting of the crest-cap should help, in any case.

[4:10 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 4:10 AMAr-Pharazon-V: A few more weeks of undercoins to go I think, almost halfway through the flickergates, and about to hit rank 9 of the Delver's Journey. It's all looking good.

[4:10 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 4:10 AMAr-Pharazon-V: Hmm, maybe it's about time I try the Nemesis?

[4:10 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 4:10 AMAr-Pharazon-V: And finally, the Legion Remix!

[4:13 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 4:13 AMAr-Pharazon-V: Made my (secret cow level) Hell Bovine based Calyaxa, an arms warrior who moos her way through Legion, having reached level 20 so far. She's saved Dalaran, visited the Broken Shore scenario, and got all 3 artifacts, and is now on the last part of the starting section of the warrior class campaign.

[4:14 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 4:14 AMAr-Pharazon-V: I'm not sure if the next part still starts at 45, or if the scaling's changed for Remix. Regardless, she should have some time for the actual zones soon, of which my initial choice is usually Azsuna.

[4:14 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 4:14 AMEönwë Valar: (She likes to moo it moo it. She likes to moo it moo it....)

[4:16 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 4:16 AMAr-Pharazon-V: Calyaxa - Character - WoW (Argent Dawn) ❮Innovation❯ - 20 Tauren Arms Warrior, 41 ilvl is definitely having a good time in combat, at least! Feels rather overpowered already, cutting her way through with her halberd, and I haven't even opened up my first major artifact branch yet. Leaning towards the chaos/infernal branch, as she's a hell bovine after all

[4:16 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 4:16 AMAr-Pharazon-V: That said, when she hits 25, it's time to try out heroic difficulty, so I wonder how long she'll last there.

[4:17 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 4:17 AMAr-Pharazon-V: Anyway, that's my report for the week

[4:22 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 4:22 AMEönwë Valar: It might be a rough start, but as you level up it'll be ok till about 70, then some mobs are going to hit like a truck fora while.

[4:23 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 4:23 AMEönwë Valar: Make sure you swing by the Bazaar at 70 though, or you'll be levelling slower than you need to.

[4:25 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 4:25 AMEönwë Valar: Apparently the exp dropoff at 70 is so low they felt a need to give an extra 250% boost via a quick turn-in to even it out.

[4:25 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 4:25 AMAr-Pharazon-V: I think I read something about that, yes.

[4:26 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 4:26 AMEönwë Valar: It's possible I mentioned it, heh. But I did feel it, the dropoff before the quest and back to normal after, heh.

[4:29 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 4:29 AMEönwë Valar: Or have a good day, whichever way you're going :}

[4:29 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 4:29 AMAr-Pharazon-V: Maybe an hour or two more

[6:24 AM]Monday, October 13, 2025 6:24 AMEönwë Valar: Sitting on the top of water does some interesting things to Divine Hammers. Also seems to make no pathing available for charge-type attacks.

[8:38 PM]Monday, October 13, 2025 8:38 PMEönwë Valar: Oh yeah, making arcwine, heh

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