Valar Guild

January 8, 2022 Sunday Meeting

5:00 P.M. Eastern Time
Valar Guild/meeting_place

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Transcript work by Varda.
[times are Central Time from Varda's Discord. Add one hour for Eastern.]

Attending (and typed): (5)

rien, Ar-Pharazon, Eonwe (After-meeting), Sandalf, Varda (presiding)
Meeting begins
Membership news:

    World of Warcraft, Overwatch 2, Lord of the Rings Online
    Topic: Gollum and Shelob's relationship.
    (non)Flashgaming Reviews (plus) by Ar-Pharazon. Includes Blizzard games.



Varda — Yesterday at 3:44 PM
Aiya. About 16 minutes.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 3:44 PM

Varda — Yesterday at 3:44 PM
Hey Phar : )

Varda — Yesterday at 4:01 PM
@Bounder Aiya! The Valar Guild meeting is in surprise the Valar Guild meeting_place! Come lurk, say hi, chat gaming and Tolkien, make your wishes known!


Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
[4:01 PM]
A star shines on the hour of our meeting.
[4:01 PM]


[4:02 PM]
Arien said she'll be a bit late, but does plan to come.
Dis is over her Covid and back to gaming. : )
I'm back in town. : )

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:02 PM
No gaming because covid? That's taking quarantine a bit far.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:03 PM
That's the breaks in a rest home.
[4:04 PM]
Do you have any news to pass along, Phar? Fladrif spotting maybe? : )

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:04 PM
I'm not on bnet right now, but I can check.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:04 PM
Aiya All! Busy packing.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:05 PM
Fladrif last online 5 hours ago, so still around

Varda — Yesterday at 4:07 PM
[4:08 PM]
Aiya Sandalf. Pack away!

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:08 PM
Pack away ere break of day!

Varda — Yesterday at 4:08 PM
: )

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:09 PM
it is impossible for you to imagine how much stuff I have managed to pack into a small two room apartment. Good Navy training, I guess...but it sure is a pain to get it all packed up!

Varda — Yesterday at 4:10 PM
More membership: Tulkas invited ThundersnowSarabi to our channel, so be sure to make our new guild-friend welcome if you spot!

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:10 PM
The unsung skills of the military, compact packing.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:10 PM

Varda — Yesterday at 4:10 PM
It is always incredible how much we find packed in all the corners when trying to move! Yours is no doubt worse. : )

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:11 PM
Aiya i have arrived

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:11 PM
Next week I will post some pictures of myt U-Haul truck fully loaded. I get the truck on Wed, and my friend and I drive to Denver on Thursday. We are keeping our fingers crossed about missing some potential snow on Thursday.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:12 PM
Aiya  Arien!

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:12 PM
Aiya Arien!

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:12 PM

Varda — Yesterday at 4:12 PM
Welcome, Sunshine. : )

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:12 PM
We who have been sorely lacking snow this year take offense at your desire to miss it.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:12 PM
Good luck with the weather during the move.
[4:13 PM]
Snow? What is this? Styrofoam pills?

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:13 PM
Thank you. We all hope it is favorable.
[4:14 PM]
Just before Xmas, I80 and I76 were CLOSED for three days due to a snowstorm. That is exactly the route we are taking on Thursday.

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:14 PM
we had two weeks of the powdery stuff or was it ten days ? something like that and some arctic temparatures .. was awkward drifing for a bit

Varda — Yesterday at 4:17 PM
But people wish for a white Christmas? : )



[4:17 PM]
Not much work done this past week, as I've been away from home for most of that time with no computer.
Gives an excuse. ; )
[4:18 PM]


[4:19 PM]
Eonwe was hoping to be here, and has been working on the Games Site, but doesn't seem to have made it to the channel quite yet. So please feel free to add to my report as we go. : )  First part from Eonwe:

World of Warcraft:
[4:19 PM]
Vault of the Incarnates LFR wing 2 is open.
This week's bonus event: Warlords of Draenor Timewalking.
The PvP Brawl: Deepwind Dunk is going until Tuesday, January 10th.
[4:20 PM]
Check out this week's hotfixes:
    World of Warcraft
    Hotfixes: January 6, 2023 - WoW
    Here you will find a list of hotfixes that address various issues related to World of Warcraft: Dragonflight, Wrath of the Lich King Classic, Burning Crusade Classic, and WoW Classic.

[4:20 PM]
Any other WoW news to mention?
[4:21 PM]
Here's hoping Arien and Phar's WoW gaming is going great. : )

Overwatch 2:
[4:21 PM]
There's a new game mode available through January 19th: Battle for Olympus.
    Introducing Battle for Olympus: A limited-time free-for-all of myth...
    Are you ready to harness the powers of ancient Greek deities?

[4:22 PM]
Eonwe is working on updating the Games Site as he can between work and here.
From me (don't blame him!):

Lord of the Rings Online:
[4:23 PM]
Shadowfax server updated to a level cap of 120, adding "Where Dragons Dwell" and the "Vales of Anduin".

Arien (added during the meeting)



[4:24 PM]
Any other gaming news?

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:25 PM
yu ll have to mention me on crickhollow as well , just don t have an invite yet there#
[4:25 PM]

Varda — Yesterday at 4:25 PM
Would you like one? : )

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:25 PM

Varda — Yesterday at 4:25 PM
Ok, Sauron is testing out the alpha on Rogue Trader. It appears to be one player at this time.
[4:26 PM]
Now pulling up Crickhollow of LotRO. : )
[4:27 PM]
And can add you to the Crickhollow list in the transcript. : )

Meanwhile, on to



[4:28 PM]
This past week on January 3 was, of course, JRR Tolkien's birthday!
A /toast to The Professor! (again, just because it's fun!)

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:29 PM
Congratulations to him!

Varda — Yesterday at 4:29 PM
On LotRO, there was much of the /toast and the /drink, plus music and dancing. : )
[4:30 PM]
In other news, Arien's hunter just joined our Crickhollow kin. /rejoice!

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:31 PM

Varda — Yesterday at 4:32 PM
For our Tolkien moment today, it was an interesting thought about the relationship between Gollum and Shelob.

TT  "Shelob's Lair"
[4:33 PM]
(Please forgive the lack of diacritical marks in my typing!)
Already, years before, Gollum had beheld her, Smeagol who pried into all dark holes,
and in past days he had bowed and worshipped her,
and the darkness of her evil will walked through all the ways of his weariness beside him,
cutting him off from light and from regret.
And he had promised to bring her food.
End quote.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:34 PM
Worshipping a spider, eh...

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:35 PM
the weaver of fate l. it is not unknown

Varda — Yesterday at 4:36 PM
A reallllly big spider. Last child of Ungoliant. Maybe some Maiarness in the ambience that added to the feeling.

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:36 PM
although i guess that tolkien here just was looking for a creature Gollum would seek as Protector or whom he coold follow

Varda — Yesterday at 4:36 PM
Interesting to note it says "in past days". Did he lose some of that worshipful feeling at some point?

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:37 PM
Apart from the sneakery, I wonder what else they had in common that Gollum would feel so in tune. We know Shelob's ancestor lusted after the silmarilli, as Gollum did for the ring.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:37 PM
Good point.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:37 PM
Shelob seemed okay with prowling around and feeding on people, though.
And the phial harmed her.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:38 PM
I believe that somewhere close to this passage in the text is the comment tht Gollum knew that Shelob would "eat" Frodo and cast the ring away as useless to her...and then he would recover it.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:39 PM
Unlike Ungoliant's desire to eat light, Shelob wanted to eat massive amounts of food so that the mountains could no longer hold her and the darkness could not contain her.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:39 PM
Wouldn't that just make her too fat to get out?

Varda — Yesterday at 4:39 PM
A spider normally slurps up the blood and leaves the husk. So that could leave the Ring conveniently on an unresisting finger, rather than a pile of ick. : )
[4:40 PM]
She might not have thought that far, Phar? Or thought she'd bust out of the tunnels? She did know the way out.
[4:43 PM]
So did Gollum have a change of heart at some point? Why would that happen?

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:45 PM
i wonder whether he felt something like gratefulness towards Frodo , because he treaed him kindly or with respect at least
[4:46 PM]
but he could not overcome that coveting of the ring as we know from the degbate smeagol / deagol
or .. as sam called them stinker and slinker or something like that  [Note: Smeagol/Golllum = Stinker/Slinker)

Varda — Yesterday at 4:47 PM
He did pick up a good feeling towards Frodo, for a time, true.
[4:48 PM]
I suspect, however, that the change towards Shelob was because the Ring took over his feeling related to worship.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:49 PM
Simply put, Gollum worshipped the Ring.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:50 PM
It would have been interesting to see what could have happened if Sam had been able to at least restrain his dislike more, or have been a little more understanding after being around Frodo with his Ring problems, and thought about how it could affect someone over so long. (Of course that could also be why he did not trust Gollum.)
Aye, Sandalf.
[4:52 PM]
The orc leaders let Shelob have a few orcs to feed her, as her unintended help to them as a fearsome guard was that valuable to them and to Sauron.
So that lenience extende to "Her sneak", Gollum, who helped her get food.
[4:53 PM]
I wonder if they bribed him with fish sometimes to let the leaders go, or leave them alone at certain key times.
Or some other bribe. He didn't eat just fish.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:53 PM
Trade them for other orcs... possibly.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:55 PM
I think that is a sad passage in the text, when Gollum reaches out a trembling hand to touch Frodo, and Sam wakes up suddenly and yells at "poor" Gollum. I too wonder what might have happened at that point, if Sam showed some kindness towards Gollum instead of rancor....but I think that Tolkien intended for Gollum to be unredeemable at the end.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:56 PM
In any case, if even Frodo could not resist the Ring at the very end, Gollum would  not have had a chance either, even if he had turned more thoroughly.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:57 PM
Gollum had along with the Ring eating his soul, the influence from Shelob.
[4:57 PM]
Aye, Sandalf.
[4:57 PM]
"and the darkness of her evil will walked through all the ways of his weariness beside him,
cutting him off from light and from regret."
[4:58 PM]
He had a lot working against him, and did not start as a nice person, either.
[4:58 PM]
Amazing that even a shred of decency was left.
[4:59 PM]
(Aside: Thank you to Fangorn-Valar for making a surprise lovely dinner and letting me eat while being with you folks here!)
[5:00 PM]
Where did that decency come from?
[5:00 PM]
And am I wrong in saying he had any? : )
[5:01 PM]
Sandalf's above paraphrase showing such a moment of decency sneaking in there.
[5:02 PM]
Agreeing with Phar that Gollum could not resist the Ring. The Wise knew no Ring-bearer could destroy it alone. Thus a Fellowship was supposed to help.
[5:02 PM]
Along with just getting him to that awful place through all the enemies.
[5:03 PM]
I wonder if the two Hobbits alone, without the rest, had a greater chance of getting through. Hard to hide what some of the others were.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:07 PM
Depends on their route. They might have had trouble in Moria.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:08 PM
Gandalf did have a tad of trouble there.
[5:09 PM]
Aragorn and Boromir had intended to drop off along the way to go to Minas Tirith.
[5:09 PM]
Legolas and Gimli only had to go as far as the mountains, although they went farther.
[5:10 PM]
Merry and Pippin did a great job of decoying from Frodo and Sam, but it could have been cool if they had regrouped with them.
[5:10 PM]
We have reached the hour.
[5:11 PM]
the gavels split up as they leave the shelf, convering on the hammerpad
thonkity thonk thonk, thonk thonk
the hammerpad applauds the percussion it enjoys by adding reverb, making them jump back at the surprise



[5:12 PM]
Feel free to add to the Tolkien chat or chat about anything else you like! Or go to bed, pack, game, etc. (As if you wouldn't anyway!)

Eonwλ Valar — Yesterday at 5:14 PM
Salutations. Sorry I'm late. Long earlier day.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:14 PM

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:14 PM
Aiya, Eonwe

Varda — Yesterday at 5:14 PM
Welcome to the fun of After-meeting! Glad you could come. : )
How Sandalf manages to type and pack is a wonder. : )

Eonwλ Valar — Yesterday at 5:15 PM
Pack with hands, type with feet, or vice versa.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:15 PM
That's it!

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:17 PM
It is a wonder to me too...I will be stopping soon, for today. I still have two more days to go...

Varda — Yesterday at 5:18 PM
Might have to have some refuel/supper.

Eonwλ Valar — Yesterday at 5:18 PM
Small Wonder Theme Song

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:23 PM
Brings back some memories

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:25 PM
Never heard of it, but the premise seems interestingly ahead of its time.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:34 PM
Back later for report!

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 5:35 PM
Aiya Eonwe

Varda — Yesterday at 5:35 PM
Later, Phar : )

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:36 PM
Later, Ar..
[5:37 PM]
My next bookcase to start packing up is my Tolkien bookcase. Hard to believe that when I log in next Sunday, I will be in my new house in Thornton, CO. Wow, or as they say in German, Boh!

Varda — Yesterday at 5:48 PM

Varda — Yesterday at 6:06 PM
Archaeology + Linguistics. Title is a bit misleading but it's interesting:
[6:06 PM]
A Total Amateur May Have Just Rewritten Human History With Bombshel...
Ben Bacon is "effectively a person off the street," but he and his academic co-authors think they've found the earliest writing in human history.

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 6:08 PM
Namarie all

Varda — Yesterday at 6:09 PM
Namarie Arien : )

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:09 PM
Namarie, Arien! I too must return to packing. Ugh.

Varda — Yesterday at 6:09 PM
And grats on your level up!

Eonwλ Valar — Yesterday at 7:06 PM
Interesting. I'm not quite old enough to make the "so they found my first grade homework" joke yet, but there you go :}

Varda — Yesterday at 7:11 PM
I might be... : )
[7:12 PM]
All of us from Valinor might qualify as old enough.

Eonwλ Valar — Yesterday at 7:12 PM

Varda — Yesterday at 7:13 PM
Our first music classes from Eru, maybe?

Eonwλ Valar — Yesterday at 7:13 PM
[7:15 PM]
Can you imagine that sheet music? ;}

Varda — Yesterday at 7:15 PM
Yes. I've seen Beethoven's. Now add bars above and below!
[7:16 PM]
(I might not imagine right, but can imagine, heh.)

Eonwλ Valar — Yesterday at 7:18 PM
[7:18 PM]
Maybe a chord with 30+ notes in it.

Varda — Yesterday at 7:19 PM
Wheee! Maybe so


Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 8:05 PM
Personal gaming report!
[8:05 PM]
For (non)flashgaming, have
    How fast can you go? See if you can find a place amongst the fastest players and stay alive for the longest time!

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 8:05 PM
I am breathlessly awaiting your report.
Thank goodness. I can breathe again!

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 8:08 PM
An endurance game where you use the mouse to travel through a series of randomly generated tunnels, avoiding the wall and dodging obstacles, while accelerating as you go.
[8:09 PM]
Every 100 speed reached unlocks a new starting speed, and the idea is to see how fast you can reach

Varda — Yesterday at 8:09 PM
(Breathing is good.)

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 8:10 PM
There's also a choice of difficulties, adding forks and steeper curves for extra challenge!

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 8:10 PM
Yes. Back in my EMT days only a few years ago, it was a little joke among the EMTs...."He's breathing. That's a good sign."

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 8:15 PM
Blizzard gaming:
[8:16 PM]
65 on the reward track now, with more golden cards gotten along the way.
[8:17 PM]
Also got the Death Knight class from 18 to 20. Gotta keep on going, luckily the unholy deck I'm using works pretty decently
[8:19 PM]
Brawl is Miniature Warfare, where all your minions have 1/1 stats and cost 1 mana. I got a priest deck with a bunch of battlecry minions, and those that buff them. Works okay, though I've run into a few more gimmicky ones that are quite interesting as well!
[8:20 PM]
[8:21 PM]
Raiding has indeed started, but not with me yet, since I only reached level 66 this week. I did see a friend come online who also raids with us, but has been away during December and is now starting from 60... I wonder if she'll beat me to 70, wouldn't surprise me at this point >.>
[8:25 PM]
Progress has been slow, but continuing. Made my way into the Ohn'aran Plains, picking off the first of the 4 main questlines, and making it to the great centaur meeting at Maruukai with a friendly caravan. Along the way I've completed a bunch of side questlines, with a ton more picked up at Maruukai itself. Looks like this zone really has everything centered around the major camps, which is good for overview... but bad for my questlog  I'll see about tackling all those sidequests next week!
[8:26 PM]
And yep, I suppose that's my report for the week, short as it is

Eonwλ Valar — Yesterday at 8:28 PM
Sleep well :}
[8:28 PM]
Speaking of WoW, I made it to 70 last night.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 8:28 PM

Eonwλ Valar — Yesterday at 8:28 PM
I did most of the quests in one zone, but the rest  of the exp was mostly the gargoyle-flight racing quests and mining. (edited)

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 8:28 PM
Yay racing!

Eonwλ Valar — Yesterday at 8:29 PM
I did a handleful of scattered quests in other zones, but I find myself not caring about the story all that much.
[8:30 PM]
I admit the racing part was mostly fun, and got a few gold times in there, though mostly bronze. Point was I got them done for the quest credit, heh.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 8:30 PM

Eonwλ Valar — Yesterday at 8:31 PM
Then I went and reforged my gear as far as I could since I'm a blacksmith, so hovering somewhere close to 330ish ilvl I think since two of my blacksmithing pieces can't go over 316.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 8:32 PM
Namarie, Ar! Thank you for an excellent and exhilirating report!

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 8:32 PM
Heh. I actually got my first upgrade this week after leaving Shadowlands in mostly fated heroic gear, about 4 ilevels on a blue-procced cloak

Eonwλ Valar — Yesterday at 8:32 PM
[8:32 PM]
Congrats :}

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 8:32 PM
Thanks :)

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 8:32 PM

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 8:33 PM
Of course that means I'm just about hitting the point where I'm no longer overgeared, that's gonna hurt!

Eonwλ Valar — Yesterday at 8:33 PM
My gear's probably not enough to make a difference in soloing mythic Kil'Jaeden in Tomb of Sargeras, but eh, I might have to see.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 8:33 PM
Ah, good luck
[8:33 PM]
green ashbringer, was it?

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 8:34 PM
Have either of you seen the Norwegian movie, "Ashlad?"

Eonwλ Valar — Yesterday at 8:34 PM
Green Lightbringer is from Heroic Tomb, so I got that. Green Ashbringer is from Mythic+15, and I doubt I'll be getting a group together for that.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 8:34 PM
Does not ring a bell.
[8:34 PM]
[8:34 PM]
Well, grats on getting that one, at least

Eonwλ Valar — Yesterday at 8:34 PM
*Green Flame Ashbringer.
[8:35 PM]

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 8:35 PM
The name of the movie I am thinking of is actually "The Ash Lad," from 2017.

Eonwλ Valar — Yesterday at 8:36 PM
The movie name is not familiar to me.

Well, grats on getting that one, at least
Eonwλ Valar — Yesterday at 8:36 PM
Thanks :}
[8:38 PM]
I did find out I stood a better chance at getting some of the appearances for the Ashbringer than I thought (or at least remembered) so I think only 2 at most should be highly unlikely. (edited)

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 8:39 PM
Still not bad!

Eonwλ Valar — Yesterday at 8:39 PM
Hmm, 317 ilvl. Forgot my rings, amulet, and trinkets are still pretty bad.
[8:41 PM]
Yeah, 10 rated battlegrounds and Mythic+15 are the only two I'm highly unlikely to get.
[8:42 PM]
I'm honor lvl 73, so I'm not as far from the Honor lvl 80 one as I thought.
[8:43 PM]
And then Glory of the Legion Hero, and I'll have all but the two highly unlikely ones.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 8:45 PM
I got my M+15 back in Legion, fortunately, which was probably the best time for it, because it didn't reset the scaling every season like it does now.
I must have gotten the battlegrounds too around then... I think I got it over time through pugging, there was a groupfinder function for pvp.
Honor 80 was indeed my last one

Eonwλ Valar — Yesterday at 8:47 PM
Too bad I can't get a keystone from a Legion mythic dungeon and trying soloing old mythic+. That would be entertaining.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 8:47 PM
[8:52 PM]
Well, goodnight

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 8:53 PM
Goodnight,, Ar.  Sleep well. Schlδfst du gut!

Eonwλ Valar — Yesterday at 8:53 PM
Sleep well Phar.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 8:53 PM

Eonwλ Valar — Yesterday at 9:07 PM
Sleep well Sandalf, belatedly.

Varda — Yesterday at 10:32 PM
Nighty night

Varda — Today at 2:47 PM Jan. 9
Shelob's evil will cut off Gollum from not just light but regret. The feelings of regret had to have been causing pain, so she removed that pain.