February 13, 2022
Sunday Meeting
5:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time
Discord: Valar
Guild/meeting_place
Back to News
Transcript work by Varda.
[times are Central Time from Varda's Discord. Add one hour for
Eastern.]
Attending (and typed): (8)
Discord: Arien, Ar-Pharazon (After-meeting), Eonwe, Celebrian,
Elrond, Pallando, Sandalf13, Varda (presiding)
Before-meeting
Forum posts.
Meeting begins
Membership news:
Web:
Story by Eonwe, posted Feb 9 "Dagor Coronlos"
Gaming:
World of
Warcraft, Hearthstone,
Lord of the
Rings Online
Tolkien:
Topic:
Did monarchism show in more than one form in Tolkien's works?
After-meeting:
(non)Flashgaming
Reviews (plus) by Ar-Pharazon. Includes Blizzard games.
top
Before-meeting
Arien Valar — 02/10/2022
post
February 13,
2022
Varda — Today at 2:28 PM
Post
Arien Valar — Today at 3:50 PM
Aiya Star Lady I am going to play wizzard and be a bit late
but for that i have almost no limit to the behind tonight should
be not too much tho
Varda — Today at 3:53 PM
Aiya Arien : )
[3:53 PM]
Wizard in Warcraft?
[3:53 PM]
I might not be here next Sunday, but today should be fine.
[4:00 PM]
Aiya : )
[4:00 PM]
be right back
Eonwë Valar — Today at 4:01 PM
Heya all.
Sandalf13 — Today at 4:01 PM
Aiya!!!
Varda — Today at 4:04 PM
Aiya Eonwe : )
[4:05 PM]
Pardon, messaged by family. All good, they got the race track and
cars. : )
[4:06 PM]
@Bounder Huzzah! Time to say hi to old friends and new, chat about
gaming and Tolkien if you like! Valar Guild Meeting.
[4:06 PM]
top
Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
[4:06 PM]
Membership:
[4:07 PM]
We have Arien (wizarding), Eonwe, and Sandalf. Yay!
[4:07 PM]
Any other membership news?
[4:07 PM]
top
Web:
[4:08 PM]
Happy to report that we have a new story for the Tolkien Site,
from Eonwe!
Pallando-Valar — Today at 4:08 PM
Aiya
Varda — Today at 4:08 PM
Pallando! Aiya : )
Celebrian — Today at 4:08 PM
Aiya!
Varda — Today at 4:08 PM
Aiya Celebrian : )
[4:08 PM]
Good to see you both. : )
[4:09 PM]
Here's that story from Eonwe:
[4:09 PM]
"Dagor Coronlos" Circa Second Age3150, Hrivë, Imladris.
Elrond — Today at 4:09 PM
Aiya
Varda — Today at 4:09 PM
(means Snowball Fight)
[4:09 PM]
Aiya Elrond!
[4:09 PM]
What a stellar group. : )
[4:09 PM]
http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/fiction/authors/Eonwe/stories/DagorCoronlos.htm
[4:09 PM]
There you go. : )
[4:10 PM]
It was posted on our site Feb 9, linked from the general News.
[4:10 PM]
and here, now!
[4:11 PM]
(and everyone disappears, reading)
[4:11 PM]
Young Auros, the same as we've been following on the Forum RP
story.
[4:12 PM]
Speaking of that long-running story, we had two more posts in it
this past week.
[4:12 PM]
Feel free to give comments in here for Eonwe to read, if you
happen to have any in a bit.
[4:12 PM]
I'm about to put him to work.
Arien Valar — Today at 4:12 PM
Aiya all
Varda — Today at 4:12 PM
Aiya Wizardess : )
Eonwë Valar — Today at 4:12 PM
Heya.
Arien Valar — Today at 4:13 PM
:)
Varda — Today at 4:13 PM
And Arien is one of those that posted, yay!
[4:13 PM]
Did you get the Wizard character created ok?
Sandalf13 — Today at 4:13 PM
Aiya Arien!
[4:13 PM]
Wie gehts?
Arien Valar — Today at 4:14 PM
och aye and I am fine Sandalf .. Just got a guardian
that neeeds to be guilded and not a wizard yet ... think
runekeeper would be closest to that?
Varda — Today at 4:15 PM
Rune-keeper, Lore-master, either one. Rune-keeper uses runes on
stones, Lore-master uses knowledge (like Burning Embers).
[4:15 PM]
Which server?
Eonwë Valar — Today at 4:15 PM
Which one arrives precisely when it means to? heh.
Arien Valar — Today at 4:15 PM
shadowfax i think
Varda — Today at 4:16 PM
hah! Good point.
Arien Valar — Today at 4:16 PM
exactly Eonwe
Eonwë Valar — Today at 4:16 PM
Which one would you rather not meddle in the affairs of?
Varda — Today at 4:16 PM
ahh, the Shadowfax server?
Arien Valar — Today at 4:16 PM
aye
Varda — Today at 4:16 PM
Pulling up now. Multi-tasking is Us.
[4:16 PM]
And on to
[4:16 PM]
top
Gaming!
[4:17 PM]
the gavel happily hops along the table to Fionwe
Eonwë Valar — Today at 4:18 PM
Thanks.
World
of Warcraft:
[4:18 PM]
This week's Bonus Event: Cataclysm Timewalking.
The PvP Brawl: Shado-Pan Showdown runs through Tuesday, February
15th.
The Love Is In the Air event is going until February 21st.
[4:18 PM]
Check out World of Warcraft News and Development Updates. ---
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23774696/world-of-warcraft-news-and-development-updates
World of Warcraft
World of Warcraft News and Development Updates
- WoW
Catch up on all the latest World of Warcraft
release dates, news, hotfixes, and more in our latest update.
[4:18 PM]
Patch 9.2 is coming February 22nd. ---
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23761715/shadowlands-the-eternitys-end-content-update-goes-live-february-22
World of Warcraft
Shadowlands: The Eternity’s End Content Update
Goes Live February 2...
The next World of Warcraft: Shadowlands Content
Update is drawing near. Prepare to step into the brink and face
Zovaal, the elusive Jailer and ruler of the Maw in Shadowlands
before he rewrites the very rules of reality.
[4:18 PM]
Check out the Sepulcher of the First Ones Raid Preview. ---
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23774003/eternitys-end-raid-preview-sepulcher-of-the-first-ones
World of Warcraft
Eternity's End Raid Preview: Sepulcher of the
First Ones - WoW
Get an early look at the new Sepulcher of the
First Ones raid, coming in Eternity's End with Season 3 of
Shadowlands.
[4:18 PM]
Check out the latest hotfixes. ---
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23739169/hotfixes-february-11-2022
World of Warcraft
Hotfixes: February 11, 2022 - WoW
Here you will find a list of hotfixes that
address various issues related to World of Warcraft: Shadowlands,
Burning Crusade Classic, WoW Classic Era, and Season of Mastery.
[4:19 PM]
Hearthstone:
Patch 22.4 is out. ---
https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/news/23761712/22-4-patch-notes
22.4 Patch Notes
Patch 22.4 brings updates to all Hearthstone’s
Modes with the Fractured in Alterac Valley Mini-Set!
[4:19 PM]
That's it for gaming news of which I'm aware.
[4:19 PM]
Sends gavel back to Varda.
Varda — Today at 4:21 PM
catches gavel
[4:21 PM]
Thank you.
[4:21 PM]
Lord of the Rings players
in kin this past week:
*Landroval:
Eonwe
Fangorn
Frodo
Ioreth
Nar
Sauron
Varda
Anor:
Eonwe
Fangorn
Varda
Shadowfax:
Arien (added today)
Varda
Treebeard:
Varda
[4:22 PM]
And today we add Arien to Shadowfax with her level 18 Guardian,
Ariendoc the Hobbit.
[4:23 PM]
I should add that my appearances online may be spotty for the next
week and probably two weeks, but I should be around some.
[4:23 PM]
I will try to make it to the meeting this next Sunday, but will
probably need to pass the gavel.
[4:24 PM]
Going on a trip to visit Eowyn, Faramir, Ciaran, and hoping on the
way back, Meriadoc. : )
[4:24 PM]
Any other news for membership, gaming?
[4:24 PM]
Guild Wars 2? Eve Online?
[4:27 PM]
Still reading Eonwe's story? : )
[4:27 PM]
On to
[4:27 PM]
top
Tolkien!
[4:27 PM]
JRRT was considered a monarchist, due to where
he lived and his loyalties.
[4:27 PM]
What is a monarchy?
Sandalf13 — Today at 4:28 PM
A type of non-democratic government in which a hereditary king or
queen holds sway.
Varda — Today at 4:29 PM
Sounds right.
Sandalf13 — Today at 4:29 PM
Of course, the U.K. has a constitutional, which is something
different.
Varda — Today at 4:29 PM
And JRRT was from the UK.
Sandalf13 — Today at 4:29 PM
He lived under a constitutional monarchy, in which the citizens
themselves established the government, supposedly.
Varda — Today at 4:30 PM
Just for the sake of the discussion, here's Merriam-Webster
(although Sandalf covered it fine!):
[4:30 PM]
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/monarchy
Definition of MONARCHY
undivided rule or absolute sovereignty by a
single person; a nation or state having a monarchical government;
a government having a hereditary chief of state with life tenure
and powers varying from nominal to absolute… See the full
definition
[4:30 PM]
Full Definition of monarchy
1 : undivided rule or absolute sovereignty by a
single person Ex. Saudi Arabia is governed by a monarchy.
2 : a nation or state having a monarchical
government
Ex. Britain is a monarchy.
3 : a government having a hereditary chief of
state with life tenure and powers varying from nominal to absolute
Ex. The country's hereditary monarchy survived
for centuries.
[4:31 PM]
There we go. : )
[4:31 PM]
So here's the question:
[4:31 PM]
Did monarchism show in more than one form in Tolkien's works? At
all? Not at all?
[4:32 PM]
Since that one's a duh, let's add:
[4:32 PM]
Can we find examples of that in his books? Can we also find
examples of groups that strayed in some way from an absolute
monarchy or had the more nominal form?
Eonwë Valar — Today at 4:32 PM
I would throw this out there as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elective_monarchy
Elective monarchy
An elective monarchy is a monarchy ruled by an
elected monarch, in contrast to a hereditary monarchy in which the
office is automatically passed down as a family inheritance. The
manner of election, the nature of candidate qualifications, and
the electors vary from case to case. Historically it was not
uncommon for elective monarchies to transfo...
Sandalf13 — Today at 4:33 PM
While the Hobbits had a hereditary Thain, Master (of Buckland),
they also had an elected Mayor, who was elected at the Free Fair
every seven years. Sort of a democracy, I suppose, as the Thain
and the Master had no real power.
Varda — Today at 4:33 PM
Not much, anyway.
[4:33 PM]
Did they recognize a King?
Eonwë Valar — Today at 4:33 PM
Nothing that would interfere with the everyday lives of Hobbits,
certainly.
Sandalf13 — Today at 4:34 PM
They had reduced the potential for a King to a common folk-saying
among the Hobbits... When the King returns....
Varda — Today at 4:35 PM
Had they ever shown a King any service previous to the War of the
Ring?
Eonwë Valar — Today at 4:35 PM
They recognized the King of Arnor/Arthedain, and when he was gone
mostly in theory, but mostly were left to govern their own affairs
even when there was a monarch.
Sandalf13 — Today at 4:37 PM
The actual Hobbit saying about the King was: " Yet the Hobbits
still said of wild folk and wicked things (such as trolls) that
they had not heard of the king. For they attributed to the king of
old all their essential laws..." From the Prologue to the FR.
Varda — Today at 4:37 PM
Good quote!
Eonwë Valar — Today at 4:38 PM
In exchange for leave to inhabit the Shire, they were expected to
"keep the Great Bridge in repair, and all other bridges and roads,
speed the king's messengers, and acknowledge his lordship."
[4:38 PM]
--- Also from the Prologue
Varda — Today at 4:39 PM
That was quite a bit of service.
Eonwë Valar — Today at 4:39 PM
"Great Bridge" -> The Bridge of Stonebows
Varda — Today at 4:39 PM
One more bit, they also sent hobbit archers to the battle,
although they didn't make it into song.
[4:40 PM]
Perhaps they were believed to be youngsters, unrecognized.
Sandalf13 — Today at 4:40 PM
None of them returned, either...were they all killed, I wonder?
Varda — Today at 4:40 PM
Are we sure none returned?
Sandalf13 — Today at 4:41 PM
That was the FINAL battle between Angmar and King Arvedui...last
King at Fornost.
Eonwë Valar — Today at 4:41 PM
Seems they did it twice: once to defend Fornost, and then to
retake it. Only says for the defense none returned. As I recall.
Sandalf13 — Today at 4:41 PM
1974.
[4:41 PM]
Third Age. Did they send archers to the battle to drive out The
Witch King and Angmar? I did not see that...
Varda — Today at 4:43 PM
For speculation, it's possible that hobbits went to the various
wars, possibly as individuals on their own, maybe with a few
friends, and we would not have known.
[4:43 PM]
Like a few friends that went to Mordor and other interesting
places, although we found out about them.
[4:44 PM]
How about other places? Gondor and its Stewards?
[4:45 PM]
The Stewards were in control a long time.
Eonwë Valar — Today at 4:45 PM
Sorry, looking for my reference,
Arien Valar — Today at 4:45 PM
Denethor woulod not take the title of king while he lived but it
remains a speculation whethere it would have stayed that way
Eonwë Valar — Today at 4:46 PM
Thought I knew where it was but I didn't see it there, heh.
Varda — Today at 4:46 PM
Eonwe, feel free to keep looking if you like. Always more
interesting that way.
Arien Valar — Today at 4:46 PM
he was suspicious of Aragorn and his claim to the throne
Sandalf13 — Today at 4:46 PM
Yes...and ONE reason Denethor disliked Aragorn was because he knew
(somehow) who Thorongil was, and thought that Gandalf and Aragorn
wanted to supplant him. That would mean his giving up his powers
as Steward, that meant that in actual fact, he was acting as the
King of Gonder.
Varda — Today at 4:46 PM
Denethor was king in all but name and expected his son to succeed
him.. Aye.
Sandalf13 — Today at 4:47 PM
But Gandal pointed out to Denethor that a Steward who willingly
gives up his authority to a rightful king is not diminished in
power or loyalty.
[4:47 PM]
As Gandalf says, in parting from his first exchange with Denethor,
"I am a steward too, did you not know?
Varda — Today at 4:47 PM
Truth. And he still gets to act as before as Steward (as Faramir
did) when the King goes off to war.
[4:48 PM]
Excellent mention. : )
Sandalf13 — Today at 4:49 PM
I am enthralled by that final scene in which Denethor stands
"trembling in his throes" before the bed upon which Faramir is
lying. How we could wish that he would return to the fight! But
his overweening pride (hubris) takes over, and he casts himself on
his pyre.
[4:50 PM]
Sad. Very, very sad.
Varda — Today at 4:50 PM
Aragorn served in both Rohan and Gondor under the name of
Thorongil, and had taken some of the shine from Denethor's own
service in the eyes of Denethor's father. Some left-over hurt
there.
Sandalf13 — Today at 4:50 PM
Yes. Tolkien says that Ecthelion loved Thorongil ABOVE
ALL....including his own son Denethor.
Varda — Today at 4:50 PM
Interesting, at the pyre, Denethor had all those looking at him
and would know if he backed down.
[4:50 PM]
Aye
Arien Valar — Today at 4:51 PM
Aragorn was the picture of the ideal king when he came into his
own
Sandalf13 — Today at 4:52 PM
And he was "elected" by majority voice-vote at his coronation.
Arien Valar — Today at 4:52 PM
a fair and just loird , prude in warfare , courage and mercy
Eonwë Valar — Today at 4:52 PM
Ok, Here it is:
Arien Valar — Today at 4:53 PM
what i mean is , Sandalf , he was basically diaametrcally opposite
to Denethor
Eonwë Valar — Today at 4:53 PM
"To the help of the king they sent some archers who never
returned; and others went also to the battle in which Angmar was
overthrown." --- Appendix A.
That would be the defense of Norbury (->Hobbit name for
Fornost) as well as to retake it.
Varda — Today at 4:53 PM
He was not just king by right, but by having won over the people,
aye.
[4:53 PM]
Eonwe, thank you!
Sandalf13 — Today at 4:54 PM
Although in defense of Denethor, he DID have a lot of positive
features and values as well. That, to me, is what makes his fall
so poignant.
Varda — Today at 4:54 PM
So it's possible a few returned, just maybe, to tell the story.
Sandalf13 — Today at 4:54 PM
Wonderful find, Eonwe! I now have to reread App. A.
Varda — Today at 4:55 PM
Denethor had a lot of hard blows, easy to forget, not the least of
which was the loss of his wife who could not bear the place into
which he had brought her.
Eonwë Valar — Today at 4:55 PM
I'll throw this in too from the SIlmarillion:
"A king is he who can hold his own, or else his title is in vain."
-- Maedhros, son of Fëanor.
Varda — Today at 4:55 PM
Had to be some feelings of guilt in there that he didn't want to
acknowledge.
Sandalf13 — Today at 4:56 PM
I have sent on to Varda Chapter Five of my book, "Denethor as
Macbeth: The Tragedy of the Last Ruling Steward of Gondor." I
truly hope you folks can read it someday and tell me what you
think.
Varda — Today at 4:56 PM
Well said. Each king has to hold his own place. Could be
overthrown and all his line otherwise.
[4:56 PM]
Sandalf, it will happen. : )
[4:57 PM]
And we hope folks will read Eonwe's much shorter story and feel
free to comment also. : )
Eonwë Valar — Today at 4:57 PM
Elves seemed to have no problem saying, "Yeah, I don't like where
this guy's taking us. Let's follow this other guy over here."
Hehe.
Sandalf13 — Today at 4:57 PM
I chose to compare Denethor to Macbeth, that Scottish general who
became king through some devious machinations....because he really
is a tragic figure. Shakespeare meant for us to have some sympathy
for Macbeth, and I think he succeeeded.
Varda — Today at 4:58 PM
We don't have the kind of comment section the Fan Fic sites do
like Stories of Arda, or Fan Fiction.net, but you can talk right
to the author here, or leave a comment on the forum in the section
that relates to it.
[4:58 PM]
True for both, aye.
Sandalf13 — Today at 4:58 PM
They certainly did that when Finrod Felagund fulfilled his oath to
Barahir...and did not follow the counsel fo Orodreth, but that of
Curufin and Celegorm, those blankety-blanks.
Arien Valar — Today at 4:59 PM
interestingly i is Maedhros and Maglor who survive until last in
the wars of the Silmaril and decide to fight against the
overwhelming odds against the army of Turgon and Beren .. although
they do grow weary of it .. until they themselves see that their
stand is in vain
Sandalf13 — Today at 4:59 PM
They later rejected Curufin and Celegorm, and switched their
loyalty to Orodreth, their lawful King, before the fall of
Nargothrond.
Eonwë Valar — Today at 5:00 PM
Although at the end they were following Turin in all but name.
Arien Valar — Today at 5:00 PM
(sorry i just heard the Silmarillion yesterday and today .. read
by Christopher Lee btw . a real treat
Eonwë Valar — Today at 5:00 PM
At least when it came to military strategy.
Varda — Today at 5:00 PM
Arien, wonderful!
Sandalf13 — Today at 5:01 PM
One legend says that at the FINAL Battle, when Morgoth returns, he
will be killed by Turin...
Varda — Today at 5:01 PM
Aye, Turin did a take-over. Got rid of a lot of the stealth that
kept them alive but great in the short run.
[5:02 PM]
And that Turin would become a Vala. That doesn't seem to fly, just
by definition, but maybe JRRT woulld've worked something out.
Sandalf13 — Today at 5:03 PM
I often wondered about that legend. Turin was a MAN, who enjoyed
the Gift of Eru....when he died, he died. How could he come back?
But as Varda says, anything is possible.
Varda — Today at 5:04 PM
The story would have had to be changed in some way. It could not
work the way those notes had it.
Sandalf13 — Today at 5:04 PM
I still think is a neat idea that it wold be Turin who finally
slays Morgoth once and for all...to make up for all the suffereing
of his family at the hands of Morgoth in the First Age.
Varda — Today at 5:04 PM
Turn about, fair play? : )
Sandalf13 — Today at 5:04 PM
You got it.
Eonwë Valar — Today at 5:04 PM
Story doesn't have to change, it just doesn't have to be accurate
:}
Arien Valar — Today at 5:05 PM
it certainly would be understandable
Sandalf13 — Today at 5:05 PM
In my article on the geology of Middle-earth, I focus only on the
map presented in the LoTR, because by the time of the action in
the LoTR the stuff of the First and SEcond Ages was already a
matter of legend....not real factd.
@Varda
Turn about, fair play? : )
Eonwë Valar — Today at 5:06 PM
Inner monologue: Don't say "Turin about, fair play" Don't say
"Turin about, fair play"
Varda — Today at 5:06 PM
And how could he "slay" Morgoth, whose hroar (body) was only
clothing? He would need the help of others. It took Manwe to blow
away Saruman and Sauron's fear, for instance, and even then it was
not total death, apparently, but inability to reform a body.
[5:06 PM]
heh, Eonwe.
Eonwë Valar — Today at 5:06 PM
:}
Varda — Today at 5:06 PM
Would we pun? cough
Arien Valar — Today at 5:06 PM
it strikes me that Turin was described as tall man , taller than
most , with a gleam in his eye that many mistook him for a Noldo
Varda — Today at 5:07 PM
He was indeed.
Sandalf13 — Today at 5:07 PM
Yes. He was of the House of Beor, most beloved by the Noldor,
because the the people of that house were most like them. They
looked like each other!
Arien Valar — Today at 5:07 PM
and you know how legends work and grow and change over the years
.. so I guess theyu could turn him into a Vala somehow ^^
Sandalf13 — Today at 5:08 PM
dark hair, gray eyes, and were moved to pity sooner than laughter.
Eonwë Valar — Today at 5:08 PM
"Slaying" Morgoth doesn't have to be more than destroying/damaging
his body.
Varda — Today at 5:09 PM
Aye. And they could write in, like Aragorn, that he has more than
purely human bloodlines. It could be worked out by the writer.
[5:09 PM]
That would make Morgoth vulnerable to Manwe, thus handling both
storylines.
Eonwë Valar — Today at 5:09 PM
Sauron and Saruman weren't stopped from reforming a body because
of Manwë, it's because they reached a point in their evil where
they could no longer pull themselves away from their machinations
long enough to do such a "simple" thing as heal and grow.
Sandalf13 — Today at 5:11 PM
By the time of Hurin, both he and his brother Huor, father of
Tuor, were descended from intermarriages between the houses of
Beor and Hador.
Varda — Today at 5:11 PM
They were already in bad shape, but when Saruman's fea reached
towards the West in supplication, his shape was hit by wind and no
body formed.
Eonwë Valar — Today at 5:11 PM
Morgoth, being much greater in nature at his origin, had not quite
crossed that threshold, according to Tolkien, and still had the
potential to draw his mind away from infinitely gnawing at himself
long enough to recover some measure of his former power.
Sandalf13 — Today at 5:11 PM
So they had the best of both...then Tuor went ahead and married
Idril, that led to the birth of Earendil, that led to the birth of
Elros and Elrond, and so on and so on.
[5:12 PM]
Tolkiens Catholicism no doubt led to his forgiving nature, and the
possibility of forgiveness...
Varda — Today at 5:14 PM
The concepts of hope and potential for forgiveness most likely
stemmed a great deal from his belief system, aye. It's not all
that Viking in that regard, which is mainly the hope of a heroic
death so as to go to Valhalla.
Eonwë Valar — Today at 5:14 PM
Turin had a shot at marrying Finduilas had he taken it, at the
cost of poor Gwindor.
Varda — Today at 5:15 PM
Gwindor didn't come out well from his aid to Turin.
[5:15 PM]
But without Turin, he would not have been able to offer that aid.
Sandalf13 — Today at 5:16 PM
The whole tale of the Children of Hurin has to be one of the most
depressing reads one can do....talk about tragedy after
tragedy....
Varda — Today at 5:16 PM
It was. And it was thanks to Morgoth.
Arien Valar — Today at 5:17 PM
there still are positive strains in there
Varda — Today at 5:17 PM
So it needed something great to happen for Turin, even if not
exactly as the notes show.
Arien Valar — Today at 5:17 PM
and yes unfortunately they did not bear much fruit because of
Morgoth s curse
Sandalf13 — Today at 5:17 PM
From Hurins fate, to Morwens pride not allowing her to go to
Thingol's realm EVEN after Melian requesteed her to do so....so
many things could have turned out differently, if pride didn't get
in the way. Ah pride...the first and foremost of the Seven Deadly
Sins.
Arien Valar — Today at 5:17 PM
but they were there
[5:18 PM]
Turin being moved to pitiy and a sort of generosity
[5:18 PM]
and his wish to do good
Sandalf13 — Today at 5:18 PM
He was a descendant of Beor! I agree.
Arien Valar — Today at 5:18 PM
but .. but ..
[5:20 PM]
we agree that in that tale many heroic deeds were done and
assaults on Morgoth that otherwise might not have happened~
[5:20 PM]
?
Varda — Today at 5:21 PM
Many great acts of heroism, aye. Part of the combination of beauty
and sadness of the great song of Creation.
[5:22 PM]
Do we have any other groups that showed a version of monarchy that
we haven't discussed yet?
Sandalf13 — Today at 5:23 PM
Rohan, of course.
Varda — Today at 5:23 PM
(can include Ainur, etc)
Sandalf13 — Today at 5:23 PM
Possibly even the Bardings in Laketown.
Eonwë Valar — Today at 5:24 PM
We didn't mention Dwarves, but we don't have a whole lot on them
other than they had kings.
Arien Valar — Today at 5:24 PM
Rohan was the typical monarchy with a King , an heir to the throne
, marshalls and then captains
Sandalf13 — Today at 5:24 PM
We don't even have their language...a fair jaw-breaker, that must
be, as Sam says.
Eonwë Valar — Today at 5:24 PM
We don't have much on Ents, but they seemed to be more democratic.
Arien Valar — Today at 5:24 PM
if the direct bloodline ended it passed on to that of the brother
or sister
[5:26 PM]
It suggests that because they come together in that Ting which
seemed to be a Council of sorts
Sandalf13 — Today at 5:26 PM
The Men and Hobbits of the Bree-land may have been the most
democratic group of all. They had not King, not since the last
King of Arthedain, Arvedui, perished.
Eonwë Valar — Today at 5:27 PM
Then there was the rather unstable nation of Smeagol. That was a
pseudo-diumvirate with a tyrant running the show behind the
scenes.
Varda — Today at 5:27 PM
And yet they were protected by the King and his Rangers, and
continued to say they were his people rather than breaking off.
[5:28 PM]
A matriarchy of the Stoors. Or pre-Stoors if you prefer. : )
Eonwë Valar — Today at 5:30 PM
Gollum's family at the time was run by a matriarch by what
evidence we have. I remember something about descent among Stoors
at least being tracked matrilineally, but I don't remember where I
saw it.
Varda — Today at 5:30 PM
I remember that Gollum's mother was the matriarch, but would have
to dig around to find exactly where, and I need to leave shortly.
[5:31 PM]
I think she was the one that kicked him out, after he got so awful
with the extortion using the Ring to sneak around and discover
secrets.
Eonwë Valar — Today at 5:32 PM
Grandmother, as I recall.
Varda — Today at 5:32 PM
We are now overtime by 30 minutes, and need to let Arien go. : )
[5:33 PM]
Might have been grandmother, thanks.
Eonwë Valar — Today at 5:33 PM
We don't hear what happened to his grandfather, or parents.
Sandalf13 — Today at 5:33 PM
OK! I hear my leftover salmon from Friday night calling to me
across the miles between my apartment and Eiseley library!
Varda — Today at 5:33 PM
They seem to have remained there as a village, and apparently were
the source of the Stoors that traveled on
[5:34 PM]
the gavel detours the soup bowl with only a little slosh
and lands neatly on the hammerpad
Thwonkk!
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After-meeting!
Sandalf13 — Today at 5:34 PM
Varda: what does Ciaran mean by "DM me the word Tomato"?
Varda — Today at 5:34 PM
Freedom to all
[5:34 PM]
heh, Direct Message.
[5:35 PM]
And it shows to everyone - a sort of ice-breaker. Don't worry
about it. He has a lot of young friends who will get a kick out of
that.
Everyone in this channel and his other special channels, I mean.
Sandalf13 — Today at 5:36 PM
Namarie to all, then. I return for dinner, then will head back to
the Bennet Martin library for some more Tolkien work.
Eonwë Valar — Today at 5:36 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DlTexEXxLQ
YouTube
Mostly Simpsons
The Simpsons - I Used To Be With It (Abe
Simpson Rant)
Varda — Today at 5:36 PM
Namarie, Sandalf : )
Eonwë Valar — Today at 5:36 PM
Take care Sandalf.
Sandalf13 — Today at 5:37 PM
Thanks! Maybe I will see you later.
Arien Valar — Today at 5:39 PM
Namarie
[5:39 PM]
nice one Eonwe hehe
Arien Valar — Today at 5:47 PM
Namarie from me as well
Eonwë Valar — Today at 5:47 PM
Sleep well Arien.
Varda — 02/13/2022
Namarie for now.
[5:53 PM]
Hi to Phar if he shows up in a bit!
Ar-Pharazon-V — 02/13/2022
Aiya, catching up
Eonwë Valar — 02/13/2022
Heya Phar.
Ar-Pharazon-V — 02/13/2022
Caught up! And I do seem to recall it was Gollum's grandmother.
[6:20 PM]
Also Numenor was a rather archtypical monarchy, with only the laws
of succession seeing significant changes.
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Ar-Pharazon-V — 02/13/2022
Personal gaming report:
[7:34 PM]
For (non)flashgaming, have a https://www.kongregate.com/games/KekGames/unpuzzle
Kongregate
Unpuzzle
Clear levels piece by piece.
top
[7:34 PM]
Always nice to see an unpuzzle game, and hard to resist completing
it over and over and over again
[7:35 PM]
Disassemble a jigsaw puzzle by removing piece by piece in the
right order, with various mechanics added throughout the levels.
[7:38 PM]
Blizzard gaming:
[7:38 PM]
Hearthstone:
Level 96 on the reward track now. Should get the level 100
portrait later this week
[7:39 PM]
Could buy another card back but since the Onyxia miniset is
coming, I'll save the 2k gold for that instead. About halfway now.
[7:40 PM]
Also managed to get the Demon Hunter to level 50 - 10 to go! - and
nearly at Commander in honor ranks.
[7:41 PM]
Brawl is the Fury of Kael'Thas, wherein every third spell cast in
each turn is free.
[7:42 PM]
Got some good wins with a cheesy demon hunter deck with some cheap
spells to trigger the count and then heavy demon summoning spells
to finish it off, usually giving me a huge minion advantage and,
in the case of one minion, even increasing the enemy's spellcosts
by 2, messing with their own spell mechanics.
[7:44 PM]
In mercenaries, still a few max level tasks, but also a bunch of
leveling, including getting Mr. Smite and Baron Geddon to level
30.
[7:45 PM]
There's an upcoming temporary event in mercenaries coming, which
recommends completing all the bounties and leveling certain merc
types... not sure how that will go, since I'm still in
Winterspring. But with Geddon at 30 I should be able to make some
progress there at least when pushed to it. Might need to up the
hearthstoning even more for a few days to get through the quests
for the event.
[7:45 PM]
But as long as I don't know what the quests are, I'll just keep
going as I am.
[7:50 PM]
WoW:
[7:51 PM]
Raiding: Still struggling with Sylvanas phase 3. With the next
patch and raidtier's release date announced, panic is striking a
bit to see whether we can get her down on time, and we're even
putting next sunday back in the roster to give us a few more
attempts.
[7:53 PM]
Weekly is timewalks, cataclysm version, wherein I got to see
Blackrock Caverns again for the first time in a long while.
[7:53 PM]
But it all came flooding back
[7:54 PM]
Through the weekly brawl I got to honor level 90, getting a new
toy reward, the Esteemed Pennant.
[7:54 PM]
Basically putting a banner on your back
[7:54 PM]
And for anima, another weapon appearance got, the Warspear of the
Wild Hunt.
[7:56 PM]
For the world event I've been fighting the 3 apothecaries every
day, but still no mount. But still got a week to go
[7:56 PM]
Finally, for alts.... since I found out you can get the world
event mount to drop from level 50 onwards, I decided to shelf the
mage for a few weeks and focus on paladin and rogue, trying to get
them from 48 to 50.
[7:58 PM]
Spent a bunch of time this week on the paladin, sending her
through the maw intro and into Bastion, where she's almost 50 now.
She, at least, should be able to get a few shots in at the
apothecary fight before this is over, but progress is a bit too
slow for me to be convinced the rogue will make it in time as
well. But I'll push him anyway after the paladin's at 50.
[7:58 PM]
And that's my report for the week!
Ar-Pharazon-V — 02/13/2022
namarie
Eonwë Valar — 02/13/2022
Sleep well
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