April 10, 2022
Sunday Meeting
5:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Savings
Time
Discord: Valar
Guild/meeting_place
Back to News
Transcript work by Varda.
[times are Central Time from Varda's Discord. Add one hour for
Eastern.]
Attending (and typed): (5)
Discord: Arien, Ar-Pharazon, Eonwe, Sandalf13, Varda (presiding)
Before-meeting
Meeting begins
Membership news:
Next Sunday is Easter, but a meeting will still
be held, partly because it's already night for our European
members by then.
Web:
Gaming:
World of
Warcraft, Overwatch,
Diablo 3, Hearthstone, Lord of
the Rings Online
Tolkien:
Forum RP
forum story activity
YouTube Amazon TV series in
Middle-earth.
Book: Tales
from the Perilous Realm with a batch of
JRRT's short stories.
Silmarillion discussion
group on LotRO Saturdays on Landroval server in the Last Homely
House in the Hall of Fire done in-game, going chapter by chapter.
Topic discussed:
Contrast between Morgoth and Manwe.
After-meeting:
(non)Flashgaming
Reviews (plus) by Ar-Pharazon. Includes Blizzard games.
List
of where other interesting links came up (happens a lot):
(The Gaming section above always contains gaming links, but will
not be re-listed here.)
*Tolkien
Untangled. YouTube concerning the top ten fears about the
upcoming Amazon story. (during Tolkien section)
*Sesame Street's
Game of Chairs You Tube. (during Tolkien section)
*Pong game photo.
(during After-meeting)
*Sandalf photos of 1
and 2. (during
After-meeting)
*Music
by Kevin MacLeod
top
Before-meeting
Varda Yesterday at 4:01
PM
Aiya : )
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 4:01 PM
Aiya!
Varda Yesterday at 4:01 PM
Phar! : )
[4:02 PM]
@Bounder Huzzah! We can get together and say hi to old friends,
maybe even chat about our favorite games and Tolkien's world!
[4:02 PM]
Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
[4:02 PM]
top
Membership:
Sandalf13 Yesterday at
4:02 PM
Hallo all!
Varda Yesterday at 4:02 PM
Anyone present, please say Manwe
[4:02 PM]
Manwe
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 4:02 PM
Aiya!
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 4:02 PM
Manwe
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 4:02 PM
Manwe
Varda Yesterday at 4:02 PM
(ok, type! hehe)
[4:02 PM]
Thanks!
Arien Valar Yesterday at 4:02 PM
Aiya all and Manwe
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 4:02 PM
Aiya Arien
Varda Yesterday at 4:03 PM
O nice! Lots of folks. Welcome!
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 4:03 PM
Are we meeting next Sunday?
Varda Yesterday at 4:03 PM
Every Sunday
Why would we not next Sunday?
Arien Valar Yesterday at 4:03 PM
Easter
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 4:03 PM
Easter?
Varda Yesterday at 4:03 PM
We haven't missed a Sunday in years.
A perfect time to get together. : )
[4:04 PM]
It's only one hour of the day.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 4:04 PM
Yes it always is.
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 4:04 PM
Manwheya all.
Varda Yesterday at 4:04 PM
Aiya Fionwe : )
Arien Valar Yesterday at 4:04 PM
aiya Fionwe
Varda Yesterday at 4:04 PM
We can practice making it quick. ; )
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 4:04 PM
Aiya Fionwe, and Eonwe
Varda Yesterday at 4:04 PM
Could be a short meeting, but we'll be there.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 4:05 PM
Especially Europe, where the festivities for the day will probably
be over by the time the meeting starts
Varda Yesterday at 4:05 PM
Right.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 4:05 PM
I have no special plans for that day...the meeting could go on and
on, as far as I am concerned.
Varda Yesterday at 4:05 PM
So at least Phar and or Arien will run things!
[4:06 PM]
The reason we have an After-meeting and a channel for all the rest
of the time. : )
[4:07 PM]
Anyway that was a great comment, so thank you.
(We even meet Christmas and New Year, heh, if it's a Sunday.)
Someone shows up!
top
Web:
[4:07 PM]
Sandalf has been emailing in lots of great stuff.
[4:08 PM]
I'm trying to do reasonaby correct coding on it so Eonwe might not
completely despair of me. ; )
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 4:08 PM
I don't know how great it is, but it is stuff, at least.
Thanks!
Varda Yesterday at 4:08 PM
Yay stuffage!
[4:09 PM]
top
Gaming:
Ar-Pharazon-V
Yesterday at 4:09 PM
Wrong holiday for stuffing, but still nice
Varda Yesterday at 4:09 PM
the gavel cheerfully hops over to Eonwe's side of the table,
half a continent over
[4:10 PM]
Feast is nice for any holiday. : )
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 4:11 PM
World of Warcraft:
[4:11 PM]
This week's Bonus Event: World Quests.
The PvP Brawl: Frozen Arathi Blizzard runs through Tuesday, April
12th.
[4:11 PM]
Now available: Sepulcher of the First Ones LFR Wing 3. ---
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23774003/sepulcher-of-the-first-ones-raid-finder-wing-3-now-live
World of Warcraft
Sepulcher of the First Ones Raid Finder Wing 3
Now Live! - WoW
Pursue Zovaal's forces into the Sepulcher of
the First Ones and prepare for the most epic Shadowlands raid yet.
[4:12 PM]
Check out the Warcraft Radio interview with Associate Game
Director Morgan Day. ---
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23785117/watch-associate-game-director-morgan-days-interview-on-warcraft-radio
World of Warcraft
Watch Associate Game Director Morgan Days
Interview on Warcraft Ra...
The Race to World first in the Sepulcher of the
First Ones has come and gone, and Associate Game Director Morgan
Day shared his thoughts on the race and many other topics with
Athalus of Warcraft Radio.
[4:12 PM]
See the World of Warcraft News and Development Updates. ---
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23789250/world-of-warcraft-news-and-development-updates
World of Warcraft
World of Warcraft News and Development Updates
- WoW
Catch up on the latest World of Warcraft
release dates, news, hotfixes, and more in our newest update.
[4:12 PM]
Check out the latest hotfixes. --- https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23770463/hotfixes-april-8-2022
World of Warcraft
Hotfixes: April 8, 2022 - WoW
Here you will find a list of hotfixes that
address various issues related to World of Warcraft: Shadowlands,
Burning Crusade Classic, and WoW Classic.
[4:13 PM]
Overwatch:
[4:13 PM]
Overwatch's sixth anniversary celebration is going through April
26th. ---
https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/news/23784372/celebrate-the-sixth-anniversary-of-overwatch/
Overwatch
Celebrate the sixth anniversary of Overwatch!
From now until April 26, join the party, earn
weekly rewards, and play all of your favorite seasonal brawls.
[4:13 PM]
A new blog is out: Uniting Gameplay and Style: Behind Overwatch
2's Complex Map Design. ---
https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/news/23785339/uniting-gameplay-and-style-behind-overwatch-2-s-complex-map-design/
Overwatch
Uniting gameplay and style: Behind Overwatch
2's complex map design
Form meets functionthe beauty of art within
the complexity of map design.
[4:13 PM]
Diablo 3:
[4:13 PM]
Check out the Season 26 Preview Blog. ---
https://us.diablo3.blizzard.com/en-us/blog/23785083/season-26-%7C-the-fall-of-the-nephalem-%7C-patch-273-preview-blog-4-4-2022
Diablo III
Season 26 | The Fall of the Nephalem | Patch 2.7.3 Preview Blog
Read on to learn more about the new seasonal theme and new balance
changes in Patch 2.7.3!
[4:13 PM]
Hearthstone:
[4:13 PM]
Out now: Patch 23.0. --- https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/news/23784368/23-0-patch-notes
23.0 Patch Notes
Patch 23.0 prepares the Tavern for Voyage to
the Sunken City and includes updates to Battlegrounds,
Mercenaries, and more!
Last but never least...
[4:14 PM]
Lord of the Rings
Online:
[4:14 PM]
The Update 32.0.7 came out this week. --- https://www.lotro.com/update-notes/lotro-update-32-0-7-release-notes-en
The Lord of the Rings Online
Update 32.0.7 Release Notes
Here are the release notes for Update 32.0.7,
released on Wednesday, April 6th, 2022.
[4:14 PM]
That's it for my gaming news.
Varda Yesterday at 4:16 PM
Thank you, Eonwe.
[4:16 PM]
For a bit more on LotRO:
[4:16 PM]
Landroval
server:
Eonwe
Fangorn
Ioreth
Nar
Thranduil
Varda
Anor server:
Eonwe
Falco
Fangorn
Varda
Shadowfax server:
Arien
Varda
Treebeard server:
Varda
[4:16 PM]
.
[4:17 PM]
Thranduil could use a bit of help, as it's been a long time since
he played much and the game has changed a ton!
[4:17 PM]
Any other gaming news? Suggestions? Invites needed? Items you want
to see in the LotRO kin chest? etc?
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 4:18 PM
Fladrif spotted, occasional Hearthstone ranking process discussed
[4:18 PM]
Well, that's more member news, but also gaming i guess!
Varda Yesterday at 4:19 PM
True
[4:20 PM]
Arien also heard from Elladan who was playing Classic WoW, so that
is great news. He's been having a great many medical issues, so we
are very happy to hear he can game. : )
[4:20 PM]
On to
top
Varda Yesterday at 4:20 PM
Tolkien!
[4:21 PM]
I was going to do a Tolkien Moment since Sandalf hasn't seen one
yet, but hah, it turned into more of a contrasting thingy.
[4:22 PM]
First, we have activity on the group story in the Forum, aka in
the RP.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 4:22 PM
A Tolkien Moment?
Varda Yesterday at 4:22 PM
I need to post! Hope to do so soonish.
[4:23 PM]
A Tolkien Moment is the quoting of a small section from any one of
Tolkien's books/short stories that especially struck you as
wonderful, for whatever reason. Then comments might or might not
be made on it by the group afterwards.
Or at least sniffles or cheers. : )
[4:24 PM]
If someone has something of Tolkien news, now is the time to
mention it, or if they have a question.
Arien Valar Yesterday
at 4:24 PM
i have come across an interesting video on you tube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v4TKOE30qk
YouTube
Tolkien Untangled
Top Ten Fears | Lord of the Rings: The Rings of
Power
Ar-Pharazon-V
Yesterday at 4:24 PM
Well, I ordered that book I mentioned a while ago, should come
within a week or two
Varda Yesterday at 4:24 PM
And before I forget, thanks to Ioreth, we know of the Silmarillion
discussion group going on in LotRO Landroval on Saturdays
[Note: correction from "Sundays"] in the Hall of Fire in the last
Homely House. [Note: 8pm Eastern, same as /servertime.]
[4:25 PM]
Ok, will have to watch that.
[4:25 PM]
Good luck with the book!
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 4:25 PM
Tales from the Perilous Realm , that is
[4:25 PM]
5 Tolkien stories together!
Arien Valar Yesterday at 4:26 PM
that is very informative and thematically solid and has some
interesting tangents also theres loads of links when you watch it
or come up in the playlist so . highly recommended
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 4:26 PM
Are you referring to the video that you posted, Arien?
Arien Valar Yesterday at 4:26 PM
aye
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 4:26 PM
Thanks! I will look at it later.
Arien Valar Yesterday at 4:27 PM
go on Phari
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 4:28 PM
Well, I wasn't sure if you were all aware of the existence of this
particular bundle, only found it by chance a few weeks ago.
Varda Yesterday at 4:28 PM
Good to mention it. Any new ones?
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 4:29 PM
No, but it will help with my collection! I already have Farmer
Giles and Tom Bombadil, but in addition to those, this bundle also
contains Leaf by Niggle, Smith of Wootton Major and, in this
edition, Roverandom.
[4:30 PM]
So basically Tolkien's most famous non-Middle-earth stuff
Varda Yesterday at 4:30 PM
Okie dokie. Thanks. Already have those so might not have to shell
out more shekels.
heh
Good description. : )
[4:31 PM]
So we have a video about the Amazon series on Tolkien to watch,
and a potential book to pick up/order.
Very good!
[4:32 PM]
Anyway, got to thinking
about the contrast between two Valar that Eru considered in his
mind to be brothers.
[4:33 PM]
They were the two top in power and should have been able to handle
nearly any problem that might come up, working together.
But then power can be its own downfall. Still, makes an
interesting comparison/contrast on what happens to two different
beings that are given massive power.
[4:34 PM]
(I typed some stuff ahead for the quotes so they would have proper
umlauts and stuff.)
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 4:34 PM
Don't forget that Tolkien says that Ulmo was almost co-equal in
power to Manwe, as well, so that means he must have been close to
Melkor also.
[4:35 PM]
Ulmo is most beloved by Men, because he deigned to speak to them
(Tuor) directly, the only Vala who ever did so.
Varda Yesterday at 4:35 PM
We can go into Ulmo in another meeting, as that is a huge and
fascinating subject.
Or I can just do this one fast and we can move to Ulmo.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 4:36 PM
As I recall, Manwe, like most of the Valar, had his own
element/specialty of power, while Melkor had bits of all of them,
sort of.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 4:36 PM
Sorry of the intrusion. I just had to get that out. Ulmo can wait.
Varda Yesterday at 4:36 PM
Aye
hahaha - tell that to Ulmo!
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 4:36 PM
Which means, in a way, Melkor is the closest to Eru himself.
In nature, that is.
Varda Yesterday at 4:36 PM
That is disagreed with in the text. : )
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 4:36 PM
Is it? Hmm.
Varda Yesterday at 4:36 PM
I see your point.
[4:37 PM]
As in he had a bit of many of the abiltiies.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 4:37 PM
Tolkien says that Manwe knew the most of ERu's mind, of all the
Valar.
Varda Yesterday at 4:37 PM
Aye
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 4:37 PM
Right, that's indeed not what I meant
Varda Yesterday at 4:38 PM
Right, you mean the strongest and knowing some of all that the
others knew for Melkor, whereas Manwe was into the Breath of Arda.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 4:38 PM
You could say that most of the Valar are specialists, Melkor is a
generalist and Eru is the generalist.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 4:38 PM
Make it The Generalist!
Varda Yesterday at 4:38 PM
Sil: Valaquenta "Of the Valar":
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 4:38 PM
Heh, that works
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 4:38 PM
In the same way a drop of water is closer to an ocean than a
single molecule of H2O, maybe.
Varda Yesterday at 4:39 PM
heh
[4:39 PM]
"Manw๋ and
Melkor were brethren in the thought of Il๚vatar.
The mightiest of those
Ainur who came into the World was in his beginning Melkor; but
Manw๋ is dearest to Iluvatar and understands most clearly his
purposes.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 4:39 PM
Sherlock Holmes once told Watson that from a drop of water the
perfect logician could imagine an entire ocean.
Varda Yesterday at 4:39 PM
He was
appointed to be, in the fullness of time, the first of all
Kings; lord of the realm of Arda and ruler of all that dwell
therein..."
[4:40 PM]
Note: in the fullness of time, Manwe is the one who bacame the
highest leader, not Morgoth. And he did speak with other Valar and
learned a lot. Yavanna for one that is told of.
[4:41 PM]
A bit more on Morgoth, speaking to your points:
[4:41 PM]
Sil: Valaquenta "Of the Enemies":
[4:41 PM]
"Great might
was given to him by Il๚vatar, and he was co๋val with Manw๋.
[4:41 PM]
(Side note: co๋val definition: Of the same age; existing during
the same period of time, especially time long and remote. American
Heritage Dictionary.)
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 4:42 PM
Same age.
Varda Yesterday at 4:42 PM
Continuing the quote:
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 4:42 PM
Right :)
Varda Yesterday at 4:42 PM
In the
powers and knowledge of all the other Valar he had part, but he
turned them to evil purposes, and squandered his strength in
violence and tyranny.
For he coveted Arda
and all that was in it, desiring the kingship of Manw๋ and
dominion over the realms of his peers."
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 4:42 PM
Generalist!
Varda Yesterday at 4:43 PM
(Another comment: peers. Peers are equals, not lesser folk.)
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 4:43 PM
Heh, that would give "jury of peers" an interesting meaning...
Varda Yesterday at 4:44 PM
That is what that term means. And aye, they did have a feeling of
judgement concerning his actions.
[4:45 PM]
So what did our generalist do with all this handy knowledge and
power? Did he become a wonderful conductor of the business of the
Song of creation?
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 4:45 PM
He could've been a great second at least.
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 4:45 PM
He wasn't satisfied with his purpose, so he tried to supplant Eru.
Varda Yesterday at 4:46 PM
Aye to both of you!
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 4:46 PM
Well, being a generalist, that was kinda my point... if anyone
could have supplanted Eru, his talents were the most fit to take
his place. His personality was rather lacking though
Varda Yesterday at 4:47 PM
He can't stand to be second even to Eru. Had to have even the
secret flame that gave life, perhaps not wanting to understand
that it was part of the nature of Eru, not separate.
Melkor did not have the knowledge and all the ability of Eru, and
aye on his personality. Toooo immature.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 4:48 PM
Melkor was a Schmuck.
Varda Yesterday at 4:48 PM
Made a stab at being an Eru though. Fell through.
[4:49 PM]
Kept seeing Eonwe typing. Trying to let him speak.
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 4:50 PM
Melkor's talents only look fit in comparison to the other Valar.
When you measure against Eru, the gap is more apparent. For one,
Eru was omniscient and omnipotent. For another, Eru's whole point
in creation was to give a canvas for other creators.
Varda Yesterday at 4:50 PM
Very different, aye!
[4:51 PM]
Continuing the quote about the Schmuck:
Understanding
he turned to subtlety in perverting to his own will all that he
would use, until he became a liar without shame.
He began with the
desire of Light, but when he could not possess it for himself
alone, he descended through fire and and wrath into a great
burning, down into his Darkness.
And darkness he jused
most in his evil works upon Arda, and filled it with fear for
all living things."
[4:51 PM]
(breaking here so you can type freely!)
[4:53 PM]
(You as in y'all. Plural.)
Arien Valar Yesterday at 4:56 PM
I see why gave Ungoliath the Light of the trees of Valinor .. If
iI remember right it was mentioned her vomit was darkness (sorry
for the unappetizing detail) but so he would have more to
tyrannize err rule
Varda Yesterday at 4:57 PM
Does show it there.
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 4:57 PM
Right there. Melkor wanted things according to his will, and what
he couldn't have he wouldn't permit to exist pure.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 4:58 PM
Ultimately, couldn't have it exist at all. It was said somewhere
that even if he had succeeded in pounding the entire world into a
formless chaos of sorts, it wouldn't be enough for him, because it
still wouldn't be his.
The things he corrupted were ultimately only a weapon, disposable
to some degree, to achieve a goal he could never each.
[4:59 PM]
*reach
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 4:59 PM
I believe that I read somewhere that Melkor's most contemptible
deed was the creation of orcs, by corrupting and debasing Elves
and Men (maybe Dwarves and hobbits as well?).
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 4:59 PM
Notice the description of Manw๋. He "takes no thought for his own
honor, but rules all to peace." Manw๋ is the king, but he doesn't
have to go around crowing about it. Reminds me of a line from
another series that I've only intermittently been exposed to:
"Anyone who has to go around saying 'I am the king' is no king."
Varda Yesterday at 5:00 PM
hah, Manwe was going to be the next part. Thanks.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:00 PM
Heh, could that be a series I've not read the books of, but have
seen all 8 seasons?
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:00 PM
Sorry if I jumped ahead there, hehe.
Varda Yesterday at 5:00 PM
Aye. He's a great example of that.
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:01 PM
Some sort of sport involving fancy chairs, perhaps :}
Varda Yesterday at 5:01 PM
hehe
[5:01 PM]
Sil: Quenta Silmarillion Ch 1 "Of the Beginning of Days":
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:01 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhWUFXvaZjo
YouTube
Sesame Street
Sesame Street: Game of Chairs (Game of Thrones
Parody)
Varda Yesterday at 5:01 PM
"But Manw๋
S๚limo, highest and holiest of the Valar, sat upon the borders
of Aman, forsaking not in his thought the Outer Lands.
For his throne was set
in majesty upon the pinnacle of Taniquetil, the highest of the
mountains of the world, standing upon the margin of the sea..."
[5:02 PM]
(The next part speaks of the spirits he sent out in the shape of
hawks and eagles to bring him word good for another discussion.)
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:02 PM
Not sure how I feel about Sesame Street making Game of Thrones
references, heh.
Varda Yesterday at 5:02 PM
Then:
"Manw๋ has
no thought for his own honour, and is not jealous of his power,
but rules all to peace."
[5:02 PM]
So we have a major contrast between the brothers.
[5:03 PM]
Ok, that's all my quotes. : )
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 5:03 PM
I believe that Tolkien spent a lot of time thinking about "pride"
and excessive pride ("hubris") in terms of Manwe and Melkor. Pride
is one of the Seven Deadly Sins, according to traditional
Catholicism.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:05 PM
Hwell, the parallels between Melkor and Lucifer are not hard to
see.
Varda Yesterday at 5:05 PM
Hubris is major, aye. It's everywhere in Tolkien's works as
bringing down folk. Pride is not the same.
[5:05 PM]
True
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:07 PM
That attitude is closer to Eru. Eru has all that power, and
could've stamped Melkor out of existence for his Discord, but that
ultimately would've accomplished nothing. He let Melkor play out
his hand, see where it leads him, and ultimately show all of his
children, Valar, Elves, and Men, where that road ends on a
personal level. He of course did not let Melkor go so far as to
destroy everything. He didn't have to.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:07 PM
Basically using Melkor as the ultimate example for his children.
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:07 PM
Or at least, Melkor has not gone that far yet. We'll see what
Dagor Dagorath has in store, heh.
Varda Yesterday at 5:07 PM
Good point, Phar
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:08 PM
And still, the only thing stopping Melkor from turning away from
the path he'd taken was Melkor himself.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 5:08 PM
His hubris.
Varda Yesterday at 5:09 PM
Quote from Eru:
"And thou,
Melkor, shall see that no theme may be played that hath not its
uttermost source in me, or can alter the music in my despite.
For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in
the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not
imagined."
[5:10 PM]
Sil, Ainulindale.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:11 PM
Seems kinda... mocking, from Melkor's point of view. "Do what you
want, rage all you want, you can't hurt me "
I'd almost say trolling.
Varda Yesterday at 5:11 PM
Then we get an early example of this. Take me a bit to type, so go
ahead and it will come up shortly. : )
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:12 PM
I don't know Phar. Maybe, maybe not, but I tend to think it's more
along the lines of Aul๋ saying to Yavanna: "They'll still have
need of wood." More of "You may not like it, but this is what's
going to happen."
Varda Yesterday at 5:14 PM
Sil Ainulindale:
And Iluvatar
spoke to Ulmo, and said: "Seest thou not how here in this little
realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy
province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and
yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of thy
clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost!"
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:14 PM
For context, Yavanna just got done bragging to Aul๋ about how her
Ents were going to wipe the floor with his Dwarves if they try to
cut down her trees.
* and to be clear, "her" trees, means any trees.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:14 PM
Like a parent saying to a kid with a tantrum.... you can rage and
cry and scream all you want, but you're going to go to bed right
now anyway.
[5:15 PM]
And yet... more dismissive, apathetic. I can see how that would
only have fueled Melkor's rage.
Arien Valar Yesterday at 5:16 PM
nice that some dwarves and elves proved them both wrong ~ namely
Gimli and Legolas and Durin III and and Celebrimbor
Varda Yesterday at 5:16 PM
"Melkor hath
devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up
thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold
rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the everchanging
mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in
these clouds thou art drawn to Manwe, thy friend, whom thou
lovest."
[5:17 PM]
So cold and heat weapons become wonderful things. : )
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:17 PM
I dunno, I'm now getting a vibe from that situation that says Eru
isn't all that which he's cracked up to be after all. But it's
hard to write a perfect creature
Varda Yesterday at 5:17 PM
Aye Arien
[5:18 PM]
Just because a being with free will misuses it does not make it a
gift to be scorned, for it was given to all, letting them find out
what they really are and can become.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:18 PM
But yes, it's pretty interesting how Melkor's efforts did
contribute to a more interesting world. An imperfect world might
be better than a perfect one?
Varda Yesterday at 5:19 PM
Eru kept it from being imperfect, turning it all to good.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 5:19 PM
I don't know, Ar. Does Eru know all? Does Eru know how the Dagor
Dagorllath will turn out? I am certainly not able to know the mind
of Eru, nor to judge His actions...I don't think that ANY of us
know the mind of Eru, nor are we meant to. His mind is beyond our
poor, Earth-bound comprehension. It is not mine to judge Eru, nor
even his Angels, i.e., the Valar.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:20 PM
True, Arda Unmarred was probably not even meant to be perfect,
while Arda Marred had the greater potential.
Varda Yesterday at 5:20 PM
Eru knows his own Song.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 5:20 PM
Yes...but all within the tapestry of the Song that Eru has the
Ainur sing...
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:20 PM
Because Eru can see the end result.
Varda Yesterday at 5:20 PM
This is known to be a learning world. Afterwards, it is all to
pass away and with the new understanding of all the Singers, a
perfect Arda will at last be made.
[5:21 PM]
Welcome to school, Melkor. : )
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 5:21 PM
But even then, in that perfect Arda, no one will truly "know" Eru.
He is beyond knowing.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:21 PM
So rather than Arda Unmarred ever being meant to be perfect, Eru
always knew we would be using the lessons of Arda Marred to make
an ever greater one. With snow and rain
Varda Yesterday at 5:22 PM
They will know Arda as sung aright, which will give them greater
understanding even if not complete.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 5:22 PM
Yes! Indeed!
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:22 PM
Tolkien made it clear that Eru knows all. Namo is the Doomsman of
the Valar. He can see the end of many potential roads. Eru knows
the minds of the Ainur. he knows where their paths will lead them.
He can see it all as an observer outside of these events.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:22 PM
To translate that to the Song, the Song that makes Arda Perfect,
would not only contain the original themes but also elements of
Melkor's discord.
@Sandalf13
But even then, in that perfect Arda, no one will truly
"know" Eru. He is beyond knowing.
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:23 PM
In reply to this directly: They will know Eru in the measure that
they are able.
Varda Yesterday at 5:23 PM
Used for greater creativity. : )
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:23 PM
Indeed, Varda
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:24 PM
Even as the Ainur, Elves, and Men understand existence to the
measure they are able to, as a whole and individually.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 5:24 PM
This getting pretty heavy....so tell me, in light of everything we
have said, what will happen to the orcs and the evil creatures
created by Melkor, in the end? Are they responsible for their
deeds?
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:25 PM
Interesting question. As corrupted from elves and men, they
shouldn't be able to escape the fate of elves and men.
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:25 PM
Tolkien had a rough time with Orcs.
Varda Yesterday at 5:25 PM
Melkor did not create any life but did corrupt it.
[5:25 PM]
Aye Eonwe.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:25 PM
Would the orcs remain in Mandos, then?
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 5:25 PM
Exactly.
Varda Yesterday at 5:25 PM
But the upshot was the orcs were irredeemably evil.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 5:26 PM
How could that be in a perfect Arda?
Yes...very interesting.
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:26 PM
Well,.. I put forth two things:
Varda Yesterday at 5:26 PM
They would not go on to a perfect Arda, is what it sounds like.
Except as dirt maybe. : )
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:26 PM
Hmm, well, here we go back to learning from Melkor's elements. If
we extend that to the orcs, they are the "element" of the Children
corrupted by Melkor, but therefore they should ultimately
contribute to a greater beauty.
Varda Yesterday at 5:27 PM
Dirt is good. : )
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 5:27 PM
You betcha.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:27 PM
So with this greater understanding that comes with the New Arda,
perhaps some way could be found to use the Orcs' nature, even if
irredeemably evil, to a greater good.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 5:28 PM
Who deemed the Orcs irredeemably evil? Would Eru do so? I think
not.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:28 PM
That too! Perhaps the new Arda was all they needed to see their
error
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 5:28 PM
Maybe we all have to come to some greater level of compassion and
understanding that we, as mortals (and Elves) now possess.
[5:29 PM]
Forgiveness - not forgetfulness - is the key, as far I can see.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:29 PM
That said... how does Morgoth himself play into this? Is he to be
the only creature to be fully annihilated before the new Arda
rolls around, or will there be redemption even for him at that
time?
Varda Yesterday at 5:29 PM
Thing we tend to forget is this is a story, not real life.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 5:30 PM
Micah told the people of Israel "Only to do justice, LOVE MERCY,
and walk humbly with thy G-d."
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:30 PM
Look at some of Tolkien's earlier ideas on the fate of Men: the
early ones had more of a... Greco/Roman afterlife vibe I think.
Not all were necessarily spending it with the "gods", and not all
went to Melkor either. Some just kinda hung out in a land set
aside for them. Then there's the Halls of Mandos. Either of those
could be seen as something of a Purgatory, which would be in line
with Tolkien's Catholic Beliefs. If there was a "good" orc, or at
least one not wholly given over to evil, it might've found it's
way into a similar fate.
Varda Yesterday at 5:31 PM
Aye to the Halls of Mandos. It was a place of reflection until
they were or were not ready to go to a new life, for Elves. Men
stayed a short time for reflection, then out to the Elves knew not
where, to Eru.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 5:31 PM
I agree with Eonwe...I think Tolkien conceived of the Halls of
Mandos as a kind of Purgatory.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:31 PM
If Orcs come from Elves, and they do not share the Elves' fate,
that is proof that Melkor can indeed change the final fate of the
Children.
[5:32 PM]
So I assumed they'd just be sitting in Mandos.
Which must be quite a big place.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 5:32 PM
WHICH HE CANNOT DO!
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:32 PM
Elves certainly believed they shouldn't deal with orcs in the same
way orcs were likely to deal with them (though that wasn't always
followed everywhere and in every case). They did recognize orcs as
more than beasts. While they were going to fight orcs with
everything they had, if any did surrender, they were supposed to
give them the same quarter they would any other Child of Eru.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:32 PM
Exactly, Sandalf.
Varda Yesterday at 5:32 PM
We can make up stuff using what we know of the legendarium, as we
are supposed to! yes. It is very likely that they would be
eventually repaired in the Halls of Mandos.
[5:33 PM]
I have to go.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:33 PM
Namarie
Varda Yesterday at 5:33 PM
the gavel hops up and down and lands on the hammerpad
whomp
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:33 PM
Well, of Elves, I point to the Houseless. The summons to Mandos
was imperative, but it was not forced.
Varda Yesterday at 5:33 PM
oops
[5:33 PM]
top
After-meeting!
[5:33 PM]
Chat on if you like or sleep well. : )
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 5:33 PM
I must say that this has been one of the most stimulating,
enjoyable, and provocative sessions I have enjoyed. Thanks to all
and Namarie! I will check in again later, after dinner.
Varda Yesterday at 5:33 PM
Namarie
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:34 PM
Good point, Eonwe, but their final fate was not specifically
Mandos, as Mandos (the place) was designed by the Valar.
Their final fate was to be bound to Arda.
As the Houseless still were.
Mandos was just a convenient place to gather up and reflect.
[5:35 PM]
Which means Orcs could be houseless as well. Or maybe they had
their own afterlife somewhere in Arda
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:35 PM
For orcs coming from Elves, I expect a similar treatment, and the
resultant weakness to a "counter-summons" from Morgoth.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:37 PM
Huh. This means that when men are bred with orcs, as we have
examples of in LotR as I recall, would fall under the half-elf
category as far as afterlife goes.
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:37 PM
For any with human blood, I would expect them to fall under the
fate of Man. For those whom might've been born of Maiar only,
which while it seems to have not been a big thing among the Ainur
of Aman in later tales I still expect might have happened under
Morgoth without them fully realizing all the consequences of that,
that would be an interesting conundrum.
Arien Valar Yesterday at 5:38 PM
Namarie
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:38 PM
Sleep well.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:38 PM
Namarie!
Arien Valar Yesterday at 5:39 PM
as for the them of redemption or what might seem unreedeemable ..
do you remember one of the ashenvale quests where a Satyr repents
and is redeemed allowed to be a Nightelf again?
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:40 PM
The Choice of the Half-Elven was given to a specific set for a
specific circumstance. Everyone else apparently got lumped under
the Mortal category according to HoME.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:40 PM
Huh, I don't remember that particular quest. Should look it up.
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:40 PM
It's a newer quest, i.e. Cataclysm or later, as I recall.
Arien Valar Yesterday at 5:41 PM
its in the Raynewood retreat
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:41 PM
Hmm, I did do all the renewed Cataclysm quest in the old zones
when it came out, on my main at a time, but I kinda blazed through
em as a result.
*at the time
Looks like his name was Avrus.
[5:42 PM]
Interesting
[5:43 PM]
Oh, it's part of the sick girl storyline. I do remember that one.
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:43 PM
I would also mention that part of Ea being "good" is that, no
matter how bad Morgoth messes it up, if left alone it will "heal",
that is return to a state closer to its nature, though still
marred. So orcs, left alone long enough, would likely be able to
return to a semblance of a peaceful society. The question would be
if they could reach that point before their current state leads
them to their own destruction.
Arien Valar Yesterday at 5:44 PM
but yes on that note .. it is bedtime for me . Namarie
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:44 PM
Ooh, that was an element in another story I once partially wrote
but had the full outline in my head...
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:45 PM
Sleep well Arien.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:45 PM
Loosely tied to the Silmarillion, where Elves and Orcs
waged a war on a faraway archipelago (long story) but the end
result was that the surviving orcs found themselves trapped in a
self-sufficient valley while the remaining Elves secluded
themselves on the other side on a different island.
Namarie Arien!
[5:47 PM]
After 10000 years, the orcs had developed into a rather peaceful
society, though many of them were still susceptible to being
conscripted by the story's bad guy... while the Elves, in
contrast, had wallowed in their hatred of the orcs for so long,
with longer lifespans and longer memories than the orcs, that the
good/evil relation had almost reversed.
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:47 PM
Sauron and Morgoth did have to keep orcs in line through lies and
force of will. They told orcs that Elves would show no quarter,
and I seem to remember mention of eating the orcs too, but I don't
want to say that certainly without the quote in front of me.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:51 PM
So yeah, I do like the idea of isolated orcs eventually settling
down
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:52 PM
Well we do get a glimpse of orcs having their own ambitions, even
if they're not particularly noble ambitions.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:53 PM
Well, roving warbands and small kingdoms is an interesting idea,
but if you no longer have anyone to fight or steal from or
conquer, you'll need to either become productive yourself or hunt
your own kinsmen into oblivion until nobody remains.
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:55 PM
With the Nature of Middle-Earth out and some of the stuff
in there, if it ended up being Tolkien's definitive word on the
matter, I can imagine Morgoth essentially speeding up the fading
of the Elves he captured in the process of trying to grow an army
quickly, effectively shortening the apparent lifespan of (what
would eventually be) orcs. Apparently, according to those notes,
having children cost the Elves "life-years" on their body.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:57 PM
Makes sense. Much breeding of orcs, lower lifespans. They might
still live longer than humans, mind you.
If left to age. Which few of them did, I suppose.
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:57 PM
Well, alot of places, not just NoME, says orcs had shorter
lifespans even than Dunedain.
[5:58 PM]
To a mortal, an orc "fading" would be indistiguishable from it
just dying. They're not going to see an orc walking around in a
memory of its body.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 5:59 PM
Orc wisps and fairies ponders
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 5:59 PM
Sorry, stopped mid-sentence because a thought came to me.
[6:00 PM]
It does make sense for the "faded orcs" to be among Morgoth's
servants to help him spread fear and delusions, these Elvish orcs
showing different forms to the minds of mortals.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 6:04 PM
Orc fairies, the original shoulder devils
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 6:04 PM
heh
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 6:06 PM
And Zugzug wept, for there were no more lands to conquer...
So he just set up a farm and started providing for himself.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:25 PM
Aiya! Anyone still here?
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 6:25 PM
Aiya!
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:25 PM
Hallo Ar! How are you?
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 6:26 PM
Can't complain!
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:26 PM
That is good. Is Eonwe here too, or did he leave?
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 6:26 PM
Well, he didn't say bye and he's still in the room, so while he
might be afk, he didn't "leave".
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:27 PM
Ah. Now I see!
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 6:27 PM
I'm still nearby my keyboard for the moment.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 6:27 PM
:)
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:27 PM
Wonderful! Thank you both for making this such an interesting
evening. The conversation was sparkling, to say the least.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 6:28 PM
Yep, lots to speculate about!
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:28 PM
I find it is so easy to get caught up in metaphysical and
theological discussions when talking Tolkien, because his own
religious beliefs are on display throughout the Legendarium.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 6:29 PM
Hmm. I tend to shy away from those a bit, since I don't share
them, but felt quite comfortable with it tonight.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:30 PM
I am glad. I always hope that our group conversations make no one
uncomfortable.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 6:31 PM
I try not to be uncomfortable Luckily we do well when it
comes to not delving too deep into religion and such.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:32 PM
Yes. I agree. One's religious beliefs - or lack thereof - is a
very personal choice.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 6:33 PM
While a discussion of the nature of Eru and Melkor makes it hard
to avoid Tolkien's beliefs, I think we did a proper job keeping it
contained in the context of the story tonight.
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 6:33 PM
We're focused on it inasmuch as it relates to the story. I don't
have to believe in Zeus or Horus to discuss the mythos of ancient
Rome and Egypt.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 6:33 PM
right, Eonwe
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:33 PM
Very true.
[6:34 PM]
I hope you did not mind my quoting from the Bible.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 6:35 PM
I brought up Lucifer myself Hey, as long as it's relevant...
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 6:35 PM
I don't have to agree with Robert Jordan's take on the things he
puts in the Wheel of Time to discuss that either.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:36 PM
I read the Wheel of Time once. It was a very "meaty" read,
but did not capture me the same way that Tolkien does.
[6:37 PM]
Has anyone checked out the video put up by Arien?
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 6:37 PM
It's both interesting and annoying, heh.
*Wheel of Time, that is. I have not looked at the video.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:37 PM
Or Ar's Sesame Stree version of Game of Thrones?
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 6:38 PM
Well, I've seen the latter Also "leafed" through the former
a bit.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:39 PM
they are on my list to watch tomorrow. Will this transcript of our
conversation today remain up for a couple of days, or should I cut
and paste the applicable web addresses for the videos?
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 6:40 PM
It should stay up, though I've not quite checked how far back it
goes. Might depend on how much content there is, but there's
servers in Discord I only check once a week. And the transcript on
the website is permanent
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:42 PM
OK. Thank you!
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 6:42 PM
Looks like the link and screenshots channels on the left go all
the way back to the server setup in 2017.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:43 PM
Wow. That is a lot of history.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 6:43 PM
I have no idea how far back the meeting channel goes, but it's a
lot of scrolling at least.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:44 PM
I just copied the addresses to my "notebook" app, so I preserved
the two addresses. I will check them out tomorrow. I see that
"HArbor" has three participants. I clicked on that and saw a
picture of what would probable be Treebeard.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 6:44 PM
Heh, as an experiment, just made it back to january in this year.
I wonder where this is all stored.
[6:44 PM]
Well, those are the voice channels.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:45 PM
But I saw a little image of someone with a pair of headphones in
front of a computer...and talking!
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 6:45 PM
Yep, that's the voice channel
[6:46 PM]
I don't participate in those.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:46 PM
So you see an image of the people online...and I suppose one can
hear them as well.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 6:46 PM
If in the channel, sure.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:46 PM
That is neat. I will have to try it someday.
Varda Yesterday at 6:47 PM
Just click the Harbor voice channel to be in it same time as here.
[6:47 PM]
If your sound is on, you can hear.
[6:47 PM]
There you go.
[6:47 PM]
We see you. : )
[6:49 PM]
The young voice is Ciaran, 8 years old.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:49 PM
Ah...and I shifted back to Meeting Place.
Varda Yesterday at 6:49 PM
Eowyn's son. Eowyn's name is Cenedra on that channel.
[6:49 PM]
You are in both.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:49 PM
Ciaran is the same age as my granddaughter Aylin here in Lincoln.
Varda Yesterday at 6:50 PM
Aye : )
[6:50 PM]
Ciaran is grandson to Fangorn and myself.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:50 PM
I remember that.
[6:51 PM]
It is very noisy here. I left Eiseley Library, and went home for
dinner. Now I am at the Telegraph Mill, along with tens of other
students getting ready for Monday. It is hard for me to hear in
this environment, so next time I will know to bring my headphones
along with me.
Varda Yesterday at 6:52 PM
Good idea. : )
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:52 PM
Sorry Ar! I got caught up in checking out the Harbor site.
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 6:52 PM
Tell them to stop tapping so loudly...
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 6:52 PM
Hah, that's fine, was just completing my Hearthstone bounties for
the day
Varda Yesterday at 6:52 PM
Grats!
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:53 PM
this is pretty exciting for me. I really will have to get to the
LoTRO game sometime soon.
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 6:53 PM
(Telegraph,.. tapping... I'll see myself out.)
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:53 PM
Namarie, Eonwe! It was good to see you again!
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 6:53 PM
Lost me there, Eonwe, I was wondering if you meant students
tapping their phones
Varda Yesterday at 6:53 PM
We are in a lot of games. LotRO is my game. : )
[6:54 PM]
The ones in Harbor are mostly StarCraft and Minecraft, sometimes
LotRO.
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 6:54 PM
Not leaving just yet, that's more a phrase when someone makes a
joke they know is bad, heh.
Varda Yesterday at 6:54 PM
; )
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 6:54 PM
As opposed to getting hoisted up and thrown out by the crowd, heh.
Varda Yesterday at 6:54 PM
Eowyn turned on her camera too.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:54 PM
I am in the "Telegraph Mill"...it is a coffee house located in the
old Lincoln Telephone and Telegraph warehouse. Very artsy
atmosphere.
[6:55 PM]
Is Eowyn the same as Cenedra?
Varda Yesterday at 6:55 PM
Yes
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:55 PM
Ah! Further revelations. This is getting interesting.
[6:56 PM]
Or hoist up by one's own petard?
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 6:57 PM
Heh. I could technically change my name to Calaron here as it is
1) a name I use far more widely online and 2) it is based on
Pharazon/Calion, so almost a Tolkien name for my character
But Pharazon should still be less confusing!
Varda Yesterday at 6:58 PM
Sandalf, Ciaran asks if you have StarCraft2. : )
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:58 PM
I do not want to intrude on what looks like a family
gathering...so I will close up my camera and keep on conversing
iub meeting-place.
Varda Yesterday at 6:59 PM
You are not intruding
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 6:59 PM
No! I do not! I have never yet played a computer game! I should
really get started. AARP says that playing computer games helps
keep you younger longer!
Varda Yesterday at 6:59 PM
You did get an invitation though. : )
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 6:59 PM
Start with Pong?
Varda Yesterday at 6:59 PM
Good plan!
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 7:00 PM
Yes. I remember. I also remember that I told you that as soon as I
get Chapter Three into your hands, Varda., I would give LoTRO a
try. Pong? What is that?
Varda Yesterday at 7:00 PM
Not going to push you to game. : ) Might want to start the
download sometime though. Takes a while.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 7:00 PM
I assume that Treebeard is just another handle for Fangorn.
Varda Yesterday at 7:00 PM
Yes
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 7:00 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pong
one of the first ever video games
Pong
Pong is a table tennisthemed twitch arcade
sports video game, featuring simple two-dimensional graphics,
manufactured by Atari and originally released in 1972.
It was one of the earliest arcade video games;
it was created by Allan Alcorn as a training exercise assigned to
him by Atari co-founder Nolan Bushnell, but Bushnell and Atari
co-founder...
[7:00 PM]
And, I daresay, one of the simplest!
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 7:01 PM
I think I already downloaded LoTRO on my computer. Ah! That looks
old. My kids played Donkey Kong and Mario Brothers.
Varda Yesterday at 7:01 PM
If you have any one of the names for a Tolkien character in our
group, you have them all. Not true in other groups.
[7:01 PM]
It's ancient. : )
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 7:01 PM
I seem to remember seeing it in some old "video arcades" back in
the u80s.
[7:03 PM]
Thanks, Ar! I copied the address down to my Notebook app also.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 7:03 PM
hehe
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 7:04 PM
It really IS a family thing for you and your family, Varda!
Congrats! I am happy you can enjoy it together. What a wonderful
thing!
[7:04 PM]
I like the cat.
Varda Yesterday at 7:05 PM
O good. Ciaran is very fond of cats.
[7:05 PM]
The family cats are Thor and Loki, both inky black and huge. Giant
purr machines.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 7:05 PM
None of my family are into fantasy, though they do like the LotR
movies, and their gaming interest is also quite low. I'm afraid I
won't get any of them into the guild, so kinda jealous of Varda
Varda Yesterday at 7:06 PM
We used to really have a big family thing going back in
Diablo and WoW days.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 7:06 PM
The only guildmember I've known since before they joined the guild
was Fladrif.
Varda Yesterday at 7:06 PM
We were a guild in ourselves. : )
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 7:06 PM
When we lived on our acreage, we had SIX cats at the same
time...good to have them around to keep the mice down. IO built a
little cat door in the side door of the house so they could come
and go as they pleased. We also had four dogs at one time. They
slowly left us, as the kids grew older and headed out on their
own.
Varda Yesterday at 7:06 PM
They also have a golden retriever.
[7:07 PM]
They were considering naming him Odin but he got Starbuck instead.
: )
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 7:07 PM
Well Ar...I will have to join you in a game sometime soon, so you
have another person to game with.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 7:07 PM
Well, I don't play LotRO Also, as I live in Europe, our
schedules will be different.
[7:08 PM]
But I've got lots of online friends \o/ and sometimes see Arien in
WoW as well.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 7:08 PM
That was a look at what the Tel Mill looks like.
Varda Yesterday at 7:08 PM
drags Phar into LotRO
[7:08 PM]
I see a pretty wall of windows
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 7:08 PM
Not to worry, Ar, I can make it happen. What games DO you like?
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 7:09 PM
Good luck, I don't have the time for any new game or activity that
I'm not doing already
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 7:09 PM
Yes...that is one of the sitting rooms here at the Tel Mill.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 7:09 PM
World of Warcraft, mostly, when it comes to a community. Also some
browser games and a flashgame or idle game here and there. Also
other Blizzard games like Hearthstone.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 7:11 PM
Well...I had better follow through on what I said earlier. I will
shut down my camera so I can concentrate on conversing with Ar and
Eonwe. Namarie, all you Harbor people!
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 7:11 PM
Too many spinning plates?
Varda Yesterday at 7:12 PM
Namarie and you can chat there aloud and type here as I'm doing.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 7:12 PM
You got that, Digger!
[7:13 PM]
I think I will really have to get my headphones if I try to talk
here at the Tel Mill....still very noisy. Lots of conversations
with students getting ready for their classes this week. The
Spring Semester ends in only four weeks, then final exam week.
Students leave Lincoln around the second week of May.
[7:14 PM]
That is amazing. Technology never fails to amaze this old
dunderhead.
[7:15 PM]
That is me with my two granddaughters that live here in Lincoln.
There is now a third. The gentleman to my left is my son-in-law,
Garet.
Photo
1
Varda Yesterday at 7:16 PM
Nice family!
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 7:18 PM
That is more recent.
Photo
2
Varda Yesterday at 7:18 PM
How fast they grow!
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 7:19 PM
I don't have enough pictures....
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 7:19 PM
I know I've said this before...
[7:19 PM]
but you do remind me of Ian McKellen.
[7:19 PM]
And as Gandalf, that is a compliment
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 7:19 PM
Now THAT is a REAL compliment! Thank you so much, Ar!
Varda Yesterday at 7:19 PM
I agree.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 7:20 PM
After all, I am Sandalf...the 13th wizard.
Varda Yesterday at 7:20 PM
hehe
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 7:20 PM
hehe
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 7:21 PM
I was too low on the Totem Pole to make it to Middle-earth. I am
sort of stuck in the Great Sea somewhere.
[7:21 PM]
Maybe Ulmo will send me home somedauy.
Varda Yesterday at 7:21 PM
Isle of Balar? : )
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 7:21 PM
Perhaps....or himling?
Varda Yesterday at 7:22 PM
Beats a rowboat. Or Phar's fleet.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 7:22 PM
Some uninhabited island somwhere, living off of coconuts.
[7:23 PM]
Well, inhabited technically
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 7:23 PM
Of that I am in total agreement. I must get back to work. I am
planning a trip to visit my sister in N.C., and her family, and
need to make my travel arrangements with Southwest Airlines. I
have $500 in travel credits after they completely bungled my visit
to see the same sister when she still lived in Anaheim, CA, back
in last October.
Varda Yesterday at 7:23 PM
Good luck! Yikes
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 7:24 PM
Enjoy!
More than the last time anyhoo.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 7:24 PM
I spend a day standing in line, TWO HOURS in one line, and got as
far as Dallas, where I was informed I could not get to Anaheim
until Tuesday...and this was a Saturday. I managed to fly back to
K.C. and stayed overnight there. Namarie all, and take care,
EVERYONE!
[7:25 PM]
Thanks, Ar! Goodnight, all.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 7:25 PM
Namarie!
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 7:25 PM
Sleep well Sandalf
Varda Yesterday at 7:25 PM
Namarie
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 7:25 PM
Thanks!
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday
at 7:29 PM
Will just mention I came across a "best of" by my favorite
internet composer, though it doesn't catch some of his later stuff
by date
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbjcaMAhJRQ
suitable for all occasions!
YouTube
Kevin MacLeod Archive
Kevin MacLeod: BEST OF [Best known music by
Kevin MacLeod]
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 7:29 PM
Urge to make Highlander joke,.. rising.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 7:30 PM
Heh, you wouldn't be the first. But if you're familiar with any
amount of flashgames or youtube videos, you're bound to know some
of his stuff.
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 7:31 PM
I might give it a listen sometime.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 7:32 PM
Good as background music!
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 7:52 PM
Personal gaming report!
[7:55 PM]
For (non)flashgaming, no kongpanion on kongregate this
week, so no overview of the past 7 badges of the day.. which is
annoying because now it's more difficulty to find a game I liked
this week
[7:57 PM]
Let's give you...
https://www.kongregate.com/games/TadasGloom/life-in-the-static
Kongregate
Life in the Static
Life in the Static is a simple atmospheric
platforming game where you have an ability to stop time. There are
no cows in this game unfortunately.
[7:59 PM]
an interesting platformer originally meant to portray the stages
of alzheimer, where you move through the levels trying to get to
the brain at the end.
Watch out for static, and use your ability to stop time to make it
through
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Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 8:10 PM
Blizzard gaming:
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 8:11 PM
Help!! I am back at home, and I clicked on the "X" to exit
Discord, but for some reason, I am still hearing the talking in
the background. What can I do?
[8:12 PM]
Ah. I hit the "Disconnect" button under Camera, and everything
seems to have shut down. Thank goodness.
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 8:12 PM
X just closes the window. You should be able to exit it through
your bar icons at the bottom, depending on what windows you've
got.
[8:12 PM]
Ah, or that
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 8:13 PM
That works. Thanks so much, Ar, as always. Shouldn't you be in bed
by now?
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 8:13 PM
Probably But I'll do the report first.
Sandalf13 Yesterday at 8:13 PM
Sorry to interrupt you, then. I apologize! Have a wonderful week
and take care of yourself! Sei gesund!
Ar-Pharazon-V Yesterday at 8:14 PM
No problem!
You too.
[8:15 PM]
Hearthstone:
Made it to 175 on the reward track, and I do believe the new
expansion's coming next week, with the new track. More cards to
collect!
[8:17 PM]
Found out by accident that the diamond version of Drek'thar
(legendary) is for sale in the shop for 3000 gold, which is quite
unique, because usually it's either skins for free or bundles and
stuff for real money only. While this is just basically a skin for
a single card, I think I'll save up for it anyway
[8:19 PM]
Tavern Brawl is blood magic! Make a deck for a class of your
choosing, all spells cost health instead of mana. So it's risky,
but can make some killer combos.
[8:21 PM]
Personally I dropped in a bunch of direct damage spells in a mage
deck, most of which doing more damage than they cost, as well as a
few support cards like ice barrier and animated armor (making you
only take 1 damage at a time) to get a deck with quite a good win
ratio, especially if you go second, and your opponent doesn't
manage to kill you right away but still drains half his health in
the process.
[8:23 PM]
Mercenaries! Got another pack from a task, which gave me a new
merc, Kazakus, as well as a new Rokara portrait. And a reward-pack
later in the week also gave me a new Millhouse Manastorm portrait.
Other than that, some merc leveling, mostly Vanndar and Nefarian,
though no new max levels.
[8:24 PM]
The task system has changed a bit in this week's patch, where if
you complete a task you automatically get the next one for that
mercenary, so you can keep focusing on one at a time.
[8:25 PM]
I, however, enjoy getting tasks from random mercs and getting to
play with a variety of them as I watch them grow, so I abandon
each followup task so I once again fill the slots with random ones
each day.
So for me, it's a bit of extra effort to keep the same system.
WoW:
[8:26 PM]
More raiding! Lords of Dread defeated, and got some attempts going
on Rygelon. Not too complex, but needs some practice to get done.
After that, just the Jailer awaits.
We've not started on heroic difficulty yet, but are planning to on
tuesday.
[8:28 PM]
Weekly is world quests. I don't do them anymore otherwise, but for
this weekly I've been doing 3 WQs a day, to get all 20 done by the
end.
Which also got me enough anima to buy a flying mount, the Autumnal
Wilderling.
Next up will be another appearance set, and then I think it's just
soulshapes? Not sure.
Finally, alting!
[8:30 PM]
Mage is still 47, but she's completed the next chapter of the
class campaign, repairing Dalaran's main magic weaponry, which had
been sabotaged.
[8:31 PM]
Also started the final chapter, for the class mount, where I need
to collect 3 disk-pieces, one for each mage spec, to create a
powerful flying disc that adapts itself to your mage spec. I've
seen what the fire one looks like, and I quite like it
If I get the mount before hitting 48, I'll probably find some
other quests to do somewhere before she too heads into the Maw.
If I get 48 before then... I kinda want to finish the mount first,
but we'll see.
[8:32 PM]
And that's my report for the week! (edited)
[8:33 PM]
Namarie
Eonw๋ Valar Yesterday at 8:33 PM
Sleep well Phar.
Varda Yesterday at 9:55 PM
Thank you, Phar
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