Valar Guild

April 10, 2022 Sunday Meeting

5:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Savings Time
Discord: Valar Guild/meeting_place

Back to News
Transcript work by Varda.
[times are Central Time from Varda's Discord. Add one hour for Eastern.]


Attending (and typed): (5)
    Discord:
Arien, Ar-Pharazon, Eonwe, Sandalf13, Varda (presiding)
Before-meeting
Meeting begins
Membership news:
    Next Sunday is Easter, but a meeting will still be held, partly because it's already night for our European members by then.
Web:

Gaming:
    World of Warcraft, Overwatch, Diablo 3, Hearthstone, Lord of the Rings Online
Tolkien:
    Forum RP forum story activity
    YouTube Amazon TV series in Middle-earth.
    Book:
Tales from the Perilous Realm  with a batch of JRRT's short stories.
    Silmarillion discussion group on LotRO Saturdays on Landroval server in the Last Homely House in the Hall of Fire done in-game, going chapter by chapter.
    Topic discussed: Contrast between Morgoth and Manwe.
After-meeting:
    (non)Flashgaming Reviews (plus) by Ar-Pharazon. Includes Blizzard games.
List of where other interesting links came up (happens a lot):
(The Gaming section above always contains gaming links, but will not be re-listed here.)
*Tolkien Untangled. YouTube concerning the top ten fears about the upcoming Amazon story. (during Tolkien section)
*Sesame Street's Game of Chairs You Tube. (during Tolkien section)
*Pong game photo. (during After-meeting)
*Sandalf photos of 1 and 2. (during After-meeting)
*M
usic by Kevin MacLeod
 
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Before-meeting

Varda — Yesterday at 4:01 PM
Aiya : )

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:01 PM
Aiya!

Varda — Yesterday at 4:01 PM
Phar! : )
[4:02 PM]
@Bounder Huzzah! We can get together and say hi to old friends, maybe even chat about our favorite games and Tolkien's world!
[4:02 PM]
Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
[4:02 PM]

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Membership:

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:02 PM
Hallo all!

Varda — Yesterday at 4:02 PM
Anyone present, please say Manwe
[4:02 PM]
Manwe

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:02 PM
Aiya!

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:02 PM
Manwe

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:02 PM
Manwe

Varda — Yesterday at 4:02 PM
(ok, type! hehe)
[4:02 PM]
Thanks!

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:02 PM
Aiya all and Manwe

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:02 PM
Aiya Arien

Varda — Yesterday at 4:03 PM
O nice! Lots of folks. Welcome!

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:03 PM
Are we meeting next Sunday?

Varda — Yesterday at 4:03 PM
Every Sunday
Why would we not next Sunday?

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:03 PM
Easter

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:03 PM
Easter?

Varda — Yesterday at 4:03 PM
We haven't missed a Sunday in years.
A perfect time to get together. : )
[4:04 PM]
It's only one hour of the day.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:04 PM
Yes it always is.

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 4:04 PM
Manwheya all.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:04 PM
Aiya Fionwe : )

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:04 PM
aiya Fionwe

Varda — Yesterday at 4:04 PM
We can practice making it quick. ; )

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:04 PM
Aiya Fionwe, and Eonwe

Varda — Yesterday at 4:04 PM
Could be a short meeting, but we'll be there.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:05 PM
Especially Europe, where the festivities for the day will probably be over by the time the meeting starts

Varda — Yesterday at 4:05 PM
Right.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:05 PM
I have no special plans for that day...the meeting could go on and on, as far as I am concerned.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:05 PM
So at least Phar and or Arien will run things!
[4:06 PM]
The reason we have an After-meeting and a channel for all the rest of the time. : )
[4:07 PM]
Anyway that was a great comment, so thank you.
(We even meet Christmas and New Year, heh, if it's a Sunday.)
Someone shows up!

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Web:

[4:07 PM]
Sandalf has been emailing in lots of great stuff.
[4:08 PM]
I'm trying to do reasonaby correct coding on it so Eonwe might not completely despair of me. ; )

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:08 PM
I don't know how great it is, but it is stuff, at least.
Thanks!

Varda — Yesterday at 4:08 PM
Yay stuffage!
[4:09 PM]

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Gaming:

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:09 PM
Wrong holiday for stuffing, but still nice

Varda — Yesterday at 4:09 PM
the gavel cheerfully hops over to Eonwe's side of the table, half a continent over
[4:10 PM]
Feast is nice for any holiday. : )

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 4:11 PM

World of Warcraft:
[4:11 PM]
This week's Bonus Event: World Quests.

The PvP Brawl: Frozen Arathi Blizzard runs through Tuesday, April 12th.
[4:11 PM]
Now available: Sepulcher of the First Ones LFR Wing 3. --- https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23774003/sepulcher-of-the-first-ones-raid-finder-wing-3-now-live
    World of Warcraft
    Sepulcher of the First Ones Raid Finder Wing 3 Now Live! - WoW
    Pursue Zovaal's forces into the Sepulcher of the First Ones and prepare for the most epic Shadowlands raid yet.

[4:12 PM]
Check out the Warcraft Radio interview with Associate Game Director Morgan Day. --- https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23785117/watch-associate-game-director-morgan-days-interview-on-warcraft-radio
    World of Warcraft
    Watch Associate Game Director Morgan Day’s Interview on Warcraft Ra...
    The Race to World first in the Sepulcher of the First Ones has come and gone, and Associate Game Director Morgan Day shared his thoughts on the race and many other topics with Athalus of Warcraft Radio.

[4:12 PM]
See the World of Warcraft News and Development Updates. --- https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23789250/world-of-warcraft-news-and-development-updates
    World of Warcraft
    World of Warcraft News and Development Updates - WoW
    Catch up on the latest World of Warcraft release dates, news, hotfixes, and more in our newest update.

[4:12 PM]
Check out the latest hotfixes. --- https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23770463/hotfixes-april-8-2022
    World of Warcraft
    Hotfixes: April 8, 2022 - WoW
    Here you will find a list of hotfixes that address various issues related to World of Warcraft: Shadowlands, Burning Crusade Classic, and WoW Classic.

[4:13 PM]
Overwatch:
[4:13 PM]
Overwatch's sixth anniversary celebration is going through April 26th. --- https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/news/23784372/celebrate-the-sixth-anniversary-of-overwatch/
    Overwatch
    Celebrate the sixth anniversary of Overwatch!
    From now until April 26, join the party, earn weekly rewards, and play all of your favorite seasonal brawls.

[4:13 PM]
A new blog is out: Uniting Gameplay and Style: Behind Overwatch 2's Complex Map Design. --- https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/news/23785339/uniting-gameplay-and-style-behind-overwatch-2-s-complex-map-design/
    Overwatch
    Uniting gameplay and style: Behind Overwatch 2's complex map design
    Form meets function—the beauty of art within the complexity of map design.

[4:13 PM]
Diablo 3:
[4:13 PM]
Check out the Season 26 Preview Blog. --- https://us.diablo3.blizzard.com/en-us/blog/23785083/season-26-%7C-the-fall-of-the-nephalem-%7C-patch-273-preview-blog-4-4-2022
Diablo III
Season 26 | The Fall of the Nephalem | Patch 2.7.3 Preview Blog
Read on to learn more about the new seasonal theme and new balance changes in Patch 2.7.3!

[4:13 PM]
Hearthstone:
[4:13 PM]
Out now: Patch 23.0. --- https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/news/23784368/23-0-patch-notes
    23.0 Patch Notes
    Patch 23.0 prepares the Tavern for Voyage to the Sunken City and includes updates to Battlegrounds, Mercenaries, and more!

Last but never least...
[4:14 PM]
Lord of the Rings Online:
[4:14 PM]
The Update 32.0.7 came out this week. --- https://www.lotro.com/update-notes/lotro-update-32-0-7-release-notes-en
    The Lord of the Rings Online
    Update 32.0.7 Release Notes
    Here are the release notes for Update 32.0.7, released on Wednesday, April 6th, 2022.

[4:14 PM]
That's it for my gaming news.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:16 PM
Thank you, Eonwe.
[4:16 PM]
For a bit more on LotRO:
[4:16 PM]
Landroval server:
Eonwe
Fangorn
Ioreth
Nar
Thranduil
Varda

Anor server:
Eonwe
Falco
Fangorn
Varda

Shadowfax server:
Arien
Varda

Treebeard server:
Varda
[4:16 PM]
.
[4:17 PM]
Thranduil could use a bit of help, as it's been a long time since he played much and the game has changed a ton!
[4:17 PM]
Any other gaming news? Suggestions? Invites needed? Items you want to see in the LotRO kin chest? etc?

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:18 PM
Fladrif spotted, occasional Hearthstone ranking process discussed
[4:18 PM]
Well, that's more member news, but also gaming i guess!

Varda — Yesterday at 4:19 PM
True
[4:20 PM]
Arien also heard from Elladan who was playing Classic WoW, so that is great news. He's been having a great many medical issues, so we are very happy to hear he can game. : )
[4:20 PM]
On to

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Varda — Yesterday at 4:20 PM

Tolkien!

[4:21 PM]
I was going to do a Tolkien Moment since Sandalf hasn't seen one yet, but hah, it turned into more of a contrasting thingy.
[4:22 PM]
First, we have activity on the group story in the Forum, aka in the RP.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:22 PM
A Tolkien Moment?

Varda — Yesterday at 4:22 PM
I need to post! Hope to do so soonish.
[4:23 PM]
A Tolkien Moment is the quoting of a small section from any one of Tolkien's books/short stories that especially struck you as wonderful, for whatever reason. Then comments might or might not be made on it by the group afterwards.
Or at least sniffles or cheers. : )
[4:24 PM]
If someone has something of Tolkien news, now is the time to mention it, or if they have a question.

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:24 PM
i have come across an interesting video on you tube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0v4TKOE30qk
    YouTube
    Tolkien Untangled
    Top Ten Fears | Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:24 PM
Well, I ordered that book I mentioned a while ago, should come within a week or two

Varda — Yesterday at 4:24 PM
And before I forget, thanks to Ioreth, we know of the Silmarillion discussion group going on in LotRO Landroval on Saturdays [Note: correction from "Sundays"] in the Hall of Fire in the last Homely House. [Note: 8pm Eastern, same as /servertime.]

[4:25 PM]
Ok, will have to watch that.
[4:25 PM]
Good luck with the book!

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:25 PM
Tales from the Perilous Realm , that is
[4:25 PM]
5 Tolkien stories together!

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:26 PM
that is very informative and thematically solid and has some interesting tangents also theres loads of links when you watch it or come up in the playlist so . highly recommended

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:26 PM
Are you referring to the video that you posted, Arien?

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:26 PM
aye

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:26 PM
Thanks! I will look at it later.

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:27 PM
go on Phari

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:28 PM
Well, I wasn't sure if you were all aware of the existence of this particular bundle, only found it by chance a few weeks ago.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:28 PM
Good to mention it. Any new ones?

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:29 PM
No, but it will help with my collection! I already have Farmer Giles and Tom Bombadil, but in addition to those, this bundle also contains Leaf by Niggle, Smith of Wootton Major and, in this edition, Roverandom.
[4:30 PM]
So basically Tolkien's most famous non-Middle-earth stuff 

Varda — Yesterday at 4:30 PM
Okie dokie. Thanks. Already have those so might not have to shell out more shekels.
heh
Good description. : )
[4:31 PM]
So we have a video about the Amazon series on Tolkien to watch, and a potential book to pick up/order.
Very good!
[4:32 PM]

Anyway, got to thinking about the contrast between two Valar that Eru considered in his mind to be brothers.
[4:33 PM]
They were the two top in power and should have been able to handle nearly any problem that might come up, working together.
But then power can be its own downfall. Still, makes an interesting comparison/contrast on what happens to two different beings that are given massive power.
[4:34 PM]
(I typed some stuff ahead for the quotes so they would have proper umlauts and stuff.)

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:34 PM
Don't forget that Tolkien says that Ulmo was almost co-equal in power to Manwe, as well, so that means he must have been close to Melkor also.
[4:35 PM]
Ulmo is most beloved by Men, because he deigned to speak to them (Tuor) directly, the only Vala who ever did so.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:35 PM
We can go into Ulmo in another meeting, as that is a huge and fascinating subject.
Or I can just do this one fast and we can move to Ulmo.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:36 PM
As I recall, Manwe, like most of the Valar, had his own element/specialty of power, while Melkor had bits of all of them, sort of.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:36 PM
Sorry of the intrusion. I just had to get that out. Ulmo can wait.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:36 PM
Aye
hahaha - tell that to Ulmo!

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:36 PM
Which means, in a way, Melkor is the closest to Eru himself.
In nature, that is.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:36 PM
That is disagreed with in the text. : )

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:36 PM
Is it? Hmm.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:36 PM
I see your point.
[4:37 PM]
As in he had a bit of many of the abiltiies.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:37 PM
Tolkien says that Manwe knew the most of ERu's mind, of all the Valar.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:37 PM
Aye

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:37 PM
Right, that's indeed not what I meant

Varda — Yesterday at 4:38 PM
Right, you mean the strongest and knowing some of all that the others knew for Melkor, whereas Manwe was into the Breath of Arda.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:38 PM
You could say that most of the Valar are specialists, Melkor is a generalist and Eru is the generalist.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:38 PM
Make it The Generalist!

Varda — Yesterday at 4:38 PM
Sil: Valaquenta "Of the Valar":

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:38 PM
Heh, that works

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 4:38 PM
In the same way a drop of water is closer to an ocean than a single molecule of H2O, maybe.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:39 PM
heh
[4:39 PM]
"Manw๋ and Melkor were brethren in the thought of Il๚vatar.
The mightiest of those Ainur who came into the World was in his beginning Melkor; but Manw๋ is dearest to Iluvatar and understands most clearly his purposes.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:39 PM
Sherlock Holmes once told Watson that from a drop of water the perfect logician could imagine an entire ocean.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:39 PM
He was appointed to be, in the fullness of time, the first of all Kings; lord of the realm of Arda and ruler of all that dwell therein..."
[4:40 PM]
Note: in the fullness of time, Manwe is the one who bacame the highest leader, not Morgoth. And he did speak with other Valar and learned a lot. Yavanna for one that is told of.
[4:41 PM]
A bit more on Morgoth, speaking to your points:
[4:41 PM]
Sil: Valaquenta "Of the Enemies":
[4:41 PM]
"Great might was given to him by Il๚vatar, and he was co๋val with Manw๋.
[4:41 PM]
(Side note: co๋val definition: Of the same age; existing during the same period of time, especially time long and remote. American Heritage Dictionary.)

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:42 PM
Same age.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:42 PM
Continuing the quote:

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:42 PM
Right :)

Varda — Yesterday at 4:42 PM
In the powers and knowledge of all the other Valar he had part, but he turned them to evil purposes, and squandered his strength in violence and tyranny.
For he coveted Arda and all that was in it, desiring the kingship of Manw๋ and dominion over the realms of his peers."

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:42 PM
Generalist!

Varda — Yesterday at 4:43 PM
(Another comment: peers. Peers are equals, not lesser folk.)

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:43 PM
Heh, that would give "jury of peers" an interesting meaning...

Varda — Yesterday at 4:44 PM
That is what that term means. And aye, they did have a feeling of judgement concerning his actions.
[4:45 PM]
So what did our generalist do with all this handy knowledge and power? Did he become a wonderful conductor of the business of the Song of creation?

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:45 PM
He could've been a great second at least.

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 4:45 PM
He wasn't satisfied with his purpose, so he tried to supplant Eru.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:46 PM
Aye to both of you!

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:46 PM
Well, being a generalist, that was kinda my point... if anyone could have supplanted Eru, his talents were the most fit to take his place. His personality was rather lacking though

Varda — Yesterday at 4:47 PM
He can't stand to be second even to Eru. Had to have even the secret flame that gave life, perhaps not wanting to understand that it was part of the nature of Eru, not separate.
Melkor did not have the knowledge and all the ability of Eru, and aye on his personality. Toooo immature.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:48 PM
Melkor was a Schmuck.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:48 PM
Made a stab at being an Eru though. Fell through.
[4:49 PM]
Kept seeing Eonwe typing. Trying to let him speak.

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 4:50 PM
Melkor's talents only look fit in comparison to the other Valar. When you measure against Eru, the gap is more apparent. For one, Eru was omniscient and omnipotent. For another, Eru's whole point in creation was to give a canvas for other creators.

Varda — Yesterday at 4:50 PM
Very different, aye!
[4:51 PM]
Continuing the quote about the Schmuck:
Understanding he turned to subtlety in perverting to his own will all that he would use, until he became a liar without shame.
He began with the desire of Light, but when he could not possess it for himself alone, he descended through fire and and wrath into a great burning, down into his Darkness.
And darkness he jused most in his evil works upon Arda, and filled it with fear for all living things."
[4:51 PM]
(breaking here so you can type freely!)
[4:53 PM]
(You as in y'all. Plural.)

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 4:56 PM
I see why gave Ungoliath the Light of the trees of Valinor .. If iI remember right it was mentioned her vomit was darkness (sorry for the unappetizing detail) but so he would have more to tyrannize err rule

Varda — Yesterday at 4:57 PM
Does show it there.

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 4:57 PM
Right there. Melkor wanted things according to his will, and what he couldn't have he wouldn't permit to exist pure.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 4:58 PM
Ultimately, couldn't have it exist at all. It was said somewhere that even if he had succeeded in pounding the entire world into a formless chaos of sorts, it wouldn't be enough for him, because it still wouldn't be his.
The things he corrupted were ultimately only a weapon, disposable to some degree, to achieve a goal he could never each.
[4:59 PM]
*reach

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 4:59 PM
I believe that I read somewhere that Melkor's most contemptible deed was the creation of orcs, by corrupting and debasing Elves and Men (maybe Dwarves and hobbits as well?).

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 4:59 PM
Notice the description of Manw๋. He "takes no thought for his own honor, but rules all to peace." Manw๋ is the king, but he doesn't have to go around crowing about it. Reminds me of a line from another series that I've only intermittently been exposed to: "Anyone who has to go around saying 'I am the king' is no king."

Varda — Yesterday at 5:00 PM
hah, Manwe was going to be the next part. Thanks.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:00 PM
Heh, could that be a series I've not read the books of, but have seen all 8 seasons?

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:00 PM
Sorry if I jumped ahead there, hehe.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:00 PM
Aye. He's a great example of that.

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:01 PM
Some sort of sport involving fancy chairs, perhaps :}

Varda — Yesterday at 5:01 PM
hehe
[5:01 PM]
Sil: Quenta Silmarillion Ch 1 "Of the Beginning of Days":

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:01 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhWUFXvaZjo
    YouTube
    Sesame Street
    Sesame Street: Game of Chairs (Game of Thrones Parody)

Varda — Yesterday at 5:01 PM
"But Manw๋ S๚limo, highest and holiest of the Valar, sat upon the borders of Aman, forsaking not in his thought the Outer Lands.
For his throne was set in majesty upon the pinnacle of Taniquetil, the highest of the mountains of the world, standing upon the margin of the sea..."
[5:02 PM]
(The next part speaks of the spirits he sent out in the shape of hawks and eagles to bring him word good for another discussion.)

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:02 PM
Not sure how I feel about Sesame Street making Game of Thrones references, heh.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:02 PM
Then:
"Manw๋ has no thought for his own honour, and is not jealous of his power, but rules all to peace."
[5:02 PM]
So we have a major contrast between the brothers.
[5:03 PM]
Ok, that's all my quotes. : )

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:03 PM
I believe that Tolkien spent a lot of time thinking about "pride" and excessive pride ("hubris") in terms of Manwe and Melkor. Pride is one of the Seven Deadly Sins, according to traditional Catholicism.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:05 PM
Hwell, the parallels between Melkor and Lucifer are not hard to see.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:05 PM
Hubris is major, aye. It's everywhere in Tolkien's works as bringing down folk. Pride is not the same.
[5:05 PM]
True

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:07 PM
That attitude is closer to Eru. Eru has all that power, and could've stamped Melkor out of existence for his Discord, but that ultimately would've accomplished nothing. He let Melkor play out his hand, see where it leads him, and ultimately show all of his children, Valar, Elves, and Men, where that road ends on a personal level. He of course did not let Melkor go so far as to destroy everything. He didn't have to.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:07 PM
Basically using Melkor as the ultimate example for his children.

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:07 PM
Or at least, Melkor has not gone that far yet. We'll see what Dagor Dagorath has in store, heh.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:07 PM
Good point, Phar

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:08 PM
And still, the only thing stopping Melkor from turning away from the path he'd taken was Melkor himself.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:08 PM
His hubris.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:09 PM
Quote from Eru:
"And thou, Melkor, shall see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, or can alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined."
[5:10 PM]
Sil, Ainulindale.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:11 PM
Seems kinda... mocking, from Melkor's point of view. "Do what you want, rage all you want, you can't hurt me  "
I'd almost say trolling.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:11 PM
Then we get an early example of this. Take me a bit to type, so go ahead and it will come up shortly. : )

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:12 PM
I don't know Phar. Maybe, maybe not, but I tend to think it's more along the lines of Aul๋ saying to Yavanna: "They'll still have need of wood." More of "You may not like it, but this is what's going to happen."

Varda — Yesterday at 5:14 PM
Sil Ainulindale:
And Iluvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: "Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of thy clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost!"

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:14 PM
For context, Yavanna just got done bragging to Aul๋ about how her Ents were going to wipe the floor with his Dwarves if they try to cut down her trees.
* and to be clear, "her" trees, means any trees.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:14 PM
Like a parent saying to a kid with a tantrum.... you can rage and cry and scream all you want, but you're going to go to bed right now anyway.
[5:15 PM]
And yet... more dismissive, apathetic. I can see how that would only have fueled Melkor's rage.

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 5:16 PM
nice that some dwarves and elves proved them both wrong ~ namely Gimli and Legolas and Durin III and and Celebrimbor

Varda — Yesterday at 5:16 PM
"Melkor hath devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the everchanging mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in these clouds thou art drawn to Manwe, thy friend, whom thou lovest."
[5:17 PM]
So cold and heat weapons become wonderful things. : )

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:17 PM
I dunno, I'm now getting a vibe from that situation that says Eru isn't all that which he's cracked up to be after all. But it's hard to write a perfect creature

Varda — Yesterday at 5:17 PM
Aye Arien
[5:18 PM]
Just because a being with free will misuses it does not make it a gift to be scorned, for it was given to all, letting them find out what they really are and can become.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:18 PM
But yes, it's pretty interesting how Melkor's efforts did contribute to a more interesting world. An imperfect world might be better than a perfect one?

Varda — Yesterday at 5:19 PM
Eru kept it from being imperfect, turning it all to good.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:19 PM
I don't know, Ar. Does Eru know all? Does Eru know how the Dagor Dagorllath will turn out? I am certainly not able to know the mind of Eru, nor to judge His actions...I don't think that ANY of us know the mind of Eru, nor are we meant to. His mind is beyond our poor, Earth-bound comprehension. It is not mine to judge Eru, nor even his Angels, i.e., the Valar.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:20 PM
True, Arda Unmarred was probably not even meant to be perfect, while Arda Marred had the greater potential.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:20 PM
Eru knows his own Song.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:20 PM
Yes...but all within the tapestry of the Song that Eru has the Ainur sing...

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:20 PM
Because Eru can see the end result.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:20 PM
This is known to be a learning world. Afterwards, it is all to pass away and with the new understanding of all the Singers, a perfect Arda will at last be made.
[5:21 PM]
Welcome to school, Melkor. : )

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:21 PM
But even then, in that perfect Arda, no one will truly "know" Eru. He is beyond knowing.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:21 PM
So rather than Arda Unmarred ever being meant to be perfect, Eru always knew we would be using the lessons of Arda Marred to make an ever greater one. With snow and rain

Varda — Yesterday at 5:22 PM
They will know Arda as sung aright, which will give them greater understanding even if not complete.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:22 PM
Yes!  Indeed!

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:22 PM
Tolkien made it clear that Eru knows all. Namo is the Doomsman of the Valar. He can see the end of many potential roads. Eru knows the minds of the Ainur. he knows where their paths will lead them. He can see it all as an observer outside of these events.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:22 PM
To translate that to the Song, the Song that makes Arda Perfect, would not only contain the original themes but also elements of Melkor's discord.

@Sandalf13
But even then, in that perfect Arda, no one will truly "know" Eru. He is beyond knowing.
Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:23 PM
In reply to this directly: They will know Eru in the measure that they are able.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:23 PM
Used for greater creativity. : )

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:23 PM
Indeed, Varda

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:24 PM
Even as the Ainur, Elves, and Men understand existence to the measure they are able to, as a whole and individually.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:24 PM
This getting pretty heavy....so tell me, in light of everything we have said, what will happen to the orcs and the evil creatures created by Melkor, in the end? Are they responsible for their deeds?

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:25 PM
Interesting question. As corrupted from elves and men, they shouldn't be able to escape the fate of elves and men.

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:25 PM
Tolkien had a rough time with Orcs.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:25 PM
Melkor did not create any life but did corrupt it.
[5:25 PM]
Aye Eonwe.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:25 PM
Would the orcs remain in Mandos, then?

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:25 PM
Exactly.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:25 PM
But the upshot was the orcs were irredeemably evil.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:26 PM
How could that be in a perfect Arda?
Yes...very interesting.

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:26 PM
Well,.. I put forth two things:

Varda — Yesterday at 5:26 PM
They would not go on to a perfect Arda, is what it sounds like. Except as dirt maybe. : )

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:26 PM
Hmm, well, here we go back to learning from Melkor's elements. If we extend that to the orcs, they are the "element" of the Children corrupted by Melkor, but therefore they should ultimately contribute to a greater beauty.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:27 PM
Dirt is good. : )

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:27 PM
You betcha.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:27 PM
So with this greater understanding that comes with the New Arda, perhaps some way could be found to use the Orcs' nature, even if irredeemably evil, to a greater good.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:28 PM
Who deemed the Orcs irredeemably evil? Would Eru do so? I think not.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:28 PM
That too! Perhaps the new Arda was all they needed to see their error

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:28 PM
Maybe we all have to come to some greater level of compassion and understanding that we, as mortals (and Elves) now possess.
[5:29 PM]
Forgiveness - not forgetfulness - is the key, as far I can see.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:29 PM
That said... how does Morgoth himself play into this? Is he to be the only creature to be fully annihilated before the new Arda rolls around, or will there be redemption even for him at that time?

Varda — Yesterday at 5:29 PM
Thing we tend to forget is this is a story, not real life.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:30 PM
Micah told the people of Israel "Only to do justice, LOVE MERCY, and walk humbly with thy G-d."

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:30 PM
Look at some of Tolkien's earlier ideas on the fate of Men: the early ones had more of a... Greco/Roman afterlife vibe I think. Not all were necessarily spending it with the "gods", and not all went to Melkor either. Some just kinda hung out in a land set aside for them. Then there's the Halls of Mandos. Either of those could be seen as something of a Purgatory, which would be in line with Tolkien's Catholic Beliefs. If there was a "good" orc, or at least one not wholly given over to evil, it might've found it's way into a similar fate.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:31 PM
Aye to the Halls of Mandos. It was a place of reflection until they were or were not ready to go to a new life, for Elves. Men stayed a short time for reflection, then out to the Elves knew not where, to Eru.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:31 PM
I agree with Eonwe...I think Tolkien conceived of the Halls of Mandos as a kind of Purgatory.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:31 PM
If Orcs come from Elves, and they do not share the Elves' fate, that is proof that Melkor can indeed change the final fate of the Children.
[5:32 PM]
So I assumed they'd just be sitting in Mandos.
Which must be quite a big place.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:32 PM
WHICH HE CANNOT DO!

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:32 PM
Elves certainly believed they shouldn't deal with orcs in the same way orcs were likely to deal with them (though that wasn't always followed everywhere and in every case). They did recognize orcs as more than beasts. While they were going to fight orcs with everything they had, if any did surrender, they were supposed to give them the same quarter they would any other Child of Eru.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:32 PM
Exactly, Sandalf.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:32 PM
We can make up stuff using what we know of the legendarium, as we are supposed to! yes. It is very likely that they would be eventually repaired in the Halls of Mandos.
[5:33 PM]
I have to go.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:33 PM
Namarie

Varda — Yesterday at 5:33 PM
the gavel hops up and down and lands on the hammerpad
whomp

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:33 PM
Well, of Elves, I point to the Houseless. The summons to Mandos was imperative, but it was not forced.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:33 PM
oops
[5:33 PM]

top

After-meeting!

[5:33 PM]
Chat on if you like or sleep well.  : )

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 5:33 PM
I must say that this has been one of the most stimulating, enjoyable, and provocative sessions I have enjoyed. Thanks to all and Namarie! I will check in again later, after dinner.

Varda — Yesterday at 5:33 PM
Namarie

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:34 PM
Good point, Eonwe, but their final fate was not specifically Mandos, as Mandos (the place) was designed by the Valar.
Their final fate was to be bound to Arda.
As the Houseless still were.
Mandos was just a convenient place to gather up and reflect.
[5:35 PM]
Which means Orcs could be houseless as well. Or maybe they had their own afterlife somewhere in Arda

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:35 PM
For orcs coming from Elves, I expect a similar treatment, and the resultant weakness to a "counter-summons" from Morgoth.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:37 PM
Huh. This means that when men are bred with orcs, as we have examples of in LotR as I recall, would fall under the half-elf category as far as afterlife goes.

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:37 PM
For any with human blood, I would expect them to fall under the fate of Man. For those whom might've been born of Maiar only, which while it seems to have not been a big thing among the Ainur of Aman in later tales I still expect might have happened under Morgoth without them fully realizing all the consequences of that, that would be an interesting conundrum.

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 5:38 PM
Namarie

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:38 PM
Sleep well.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:38 PM
Namarie!

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 5:39 PM
as for the them of redemption or what might seem unreedeemable .. do you remember one of the ashenvale quests where a Satyr repents and is redeemed allowed to be a Nightelf again?

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:40 PM
The Choice of the Half-Elven was given to a specific set for a specific circumstance. Everyone else apparently got lumped under the Mortal category according to HoME.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:40 PM
Huh, I don't remember that particular quest. Should look it up.

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:40 PM
It's a newer quest, i.e. Cataclysm or later, as I recall.

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 5:41 PM
its in the  Raynewood retreat

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:41 PM
Hmm, I did do all the renewed Cataclysm quest in the old zones when it came out, on my main at a time, but I kinda blazed through em as a result.
*at the time
Looks like his name was Avrus.
[5:42 PM]
Interesting
[5:43 PM]
Oh, it's part of the sick girl storyline. I do remember that one.

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:43 PM
I would also mention that part of Ea being "good" is that, no matter how bad Morgoth messes it up, if left alone it will "heal", that is return to a state closer to its nature, though still marred. So orcs, left alone long enough, would likely be able to return to a semblance of a peaceful society. The question would be if they could reach that point before their current state leads them to their own destruction.

Arien  Valar — Yesterday at 5:44 PM
but yes on that note .. it is bedtime for me . Namarie

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:44 PM
Ooh, that was an element in another story I once partially wrote but had the full outline in my head...

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:45 PM
Sleep well Arien.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:45 PM
Loosely tied to the Silmarillion, where Elves and Orcs waged a war on a faraway archipelago (long story) but the end result was that the surviving orcs found themselves trapped in a self-sufficient valley while the remaining Elves secluded themselves on the other side on a different island.
Namarie Arien!
[5:47 PM]
After 10000 years, the orcs had developed into a rather peaceful society, though many of them were still susceptible to being conscripted by the story's bad guy... while the Elves, in contrast, had wallowed in their hatred of the orcs for so long, with longer lifespans and longer memories than the orcs, that the good/evil relation had almost reversed.

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:47 PM
Sauron and Morgoth did have to keep orcs in line through lies and force of will. They told orcs that Elves would show no quarter, and I seem to remember mention of eating the orcs too, but I don't want to say that certainly without the quote in front of me.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:51 PM
So yeah, I do like the idea of isolated orcs eventually settling down

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:52 PM
Well we do get a glimpse of orcs having their own ambitions, even if they're not particularly noble ambitions.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:53 PM
Well, roving warbands and small kingdoms is an interesting idea, but if you no longer have anyone to fight or steal from or conquer, you'll need to either become productive yourself or hunt your own kinsmen into oblivion until nobody remains.

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:55 PM
With the Nature of Middle-Earth out and some of the stuff in there, if it ended up being Tolkien's definitive word on the matter, I can imagine Morgoth essentially speeding up the fading of the Elves he captured in the process of trying to grow an army quickly, effectively shortening the apparent lifespan of (what would eventually be) orcs. Apparently, according to those notes, having children cost the Elves "life-years" on their body.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:57 PM
Makes sense. Much breeding of orcs, lower lifespans. They might still live longer than humans, mind you.
If left to age. Which few of them did, I suppose.

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:57 PM
Well, alot of places, not just NoME, says orcs had shorter lifespans even than Dunedain.
[5:58 PM]
To a mortal, an orc "fading" would be indistiguishable from it just dying. They're not going to see an orc walking around in a memory of its body.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 5:59 PM
Orc wisps and fairies ponders

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 5:59 PM
Sorry, stopped mid-sentence because a thought came to me.
[6:00 PM]
It does make sense for the "faded orcs" to be among Morgoth's servants to help him spread fear and delusions, these Elvish orcs showing different forms to the minds of mortals.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:04 PM
Orc fairies, the original shoulder devils

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 6:04 PM
heh

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:06 PM
And Zugzug wept, for there were no more lands to conquer...
So he just set up a farm and started providing for himself.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:25 PM
Aiya! Anyone still here?

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:25 PM
Aiya!

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:25 PM
Hallo Ar! How are you?

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:26 PM
Can't complain!

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:26 PM
That is good. Is Eonwe here too, or did he leave?

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:26 PM
Well, he didn't say bye and he's still in the room, so while he might be afk, he didn't "leave".

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:27 PM
Ah. Now I see!

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 6:27 PM
I'm still nearby my keyboard for the moment.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:27 PM
:)

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:27 PM
Wonderful! Thank you both for making this such an interesting evening. The conversation was sparkling, to say the least.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:28 PM
Yep, lots to speculate about!

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:28 PM
I find it is so easy to get caught up in metaphysical and theological discussions when talking Tolkien, because his own religious beliefs are on display throughout the Legendarium.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:29 PM
Hmm. I tend to shy away from those a bit, since I don't share them, but felt quite comfortable with it tonight.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:30 PM
I am glad. I always hope that our group conversations make no one uncomfortable.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:31 PM
I try not to be uncomfortable  Luckily we do well when it comes to not delving too deep into religion and such.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:32 PM
Yes. I agree. One's religious beliefs - or lack thereof - is a very personal choice.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:33 PM
While a discussion of the nature of Eru and Melkor makes it hard to avoid Tolkien's beliefs, I think we did a proper job keeping it contained in the context of the story tonight.

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 6:33 PM
We're focused on it inasmuch as it relates to the story. I don't have to believe in Zeus or Horus to discuss the mythos of ancient Rome and Egypt.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:33 PM
right, Eonwe

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:33 PM
Very true.
[6:34 PM]
I hope you did not mind my quoting from the Bible.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:35 PM
I brought up Lucifer myself  Hey, as long as it's relevant...

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 6:35 PM
I don't have to agree with Robert Jordan's take on the things he puts in the Wheel of Time to discuss that either.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:36 PM
I read the Wheel of Time once. It was a very "meaty" read, but did not capture me the same way that Tolkien does.
[6:37 PM]
Has anyone checked out the video put up by Arien?

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 6:37 PM
It's both interesting and annoying, heh.
*Wheel of Time, that is. I have not looked at the video.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:37 PM
Or Ar's Sesame Stree version of Game of Thrones?

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:38 PM
Well, I've seen the latter  Also "leafed" through the former a bit.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:39 PM
they are on my list to watch tomorrow. Will this transcript of our conversation today remain up for a couple of days, or should I cut and paste the applicable web addresses for the videos?

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:40 PM
It should stay up, though I've not quite checked how far back it goes. Might depend on how much content there is, but there's servers in Discord I only check once a week. And the transcript on the website is permanent

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:42 PM
OK. Thank you!

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:42 PM
Looks like the link and screenshots channels on the left go all the way back to the server setup in 2017.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:43 PM
Wow. That is a lot of history.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:43 PM
I have no idea how far back the meeting channel goes, but it's a lot of scrolling at least.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:44 PM
I just copied the addresses to my "notebook" app, so I preserved the two addresses. I will check them out tomorrow. I see that "HArbor" has three participants. I clicked on that and saw a picture of what would probable be Treebeard.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:44 PM
Heh, as an experiment, just made it back to january in this year. I wonder where this is all stored.
[6:44 PM]
Well, those are the voice channels.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:45 PM
But I saw a little image of someone with a pair of headphones in front of a computer...and talking!

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:45 PM
Yep, that's the voice channel
[6:46 PM]
I don't participate in those.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:46 PM
So you see an image of the people online...and I suppose one can hear them as well.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:46 PM
If in the channel, sure.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:46 PM
That is neat. I will have to try it someday.

Varda — Yesterday at 6:47 PM
Just click the Harbor voice channel to be in it same time as here.
[6:47 PM]
If your sound is on, you can hear.
[6:47 PM]
There you go.
[6:47 PM]
We see you. : )
[6:49 PM]
The young voice is Ciaran, 8 years old.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:49 PM
Ah...and I shifted back to Meeting Place.

Varda — Yesterday at 6:49 PM
Eowyn's son. Eowyn's name is Cenedra on that channel.
[6:49 PM]
You are in both.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:49 PM
Ciaran is the same age as my granddaughter Aylin here in Lincoln.

Varda — Yesterday at 6:50 PM
Aye : )
[6:50 PM]
Ciaran is grandson to Fangorn and myself.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:50 PM
I remember that.
[6:51 PM]
It is very noisy here. I left Eiseley Library, and went home for dinner. Now I am at the Telegraph Mill, along with tens of other students getting ready for Monday. It is hard for me to hear in this environment, so next time I will know to bring my headphones along with me.

Varda — Yesterday at 6:52 PM
Good idea. : )

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:52 PM
Sorry Ar! I got caught up in checking out the Harbor site.

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 6:52 PM
Tell them to stop tapping so loudly...

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:52 PM
Hah, that's fine, was just completing my Hearthstone bounties for the day

Varda — Yesterday at 6:52 PM
Grats!

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:53 PM
this is pretty exciting for me. I really will have to get to the LoTRO game sometime soon.

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 6:53 PM
(Telegraph,.. tapping... I'll see myself out.)

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:53 PM
Namarie, Eonwe! It was good to see you again!

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:53 PM
Lost me there, Eonwe, I was wondering if you meant students tapping their phones

Varda — Yesterday at 6:53 PM
We are in a lot of games. LotRO is my game. : )
[6:54 PM]
The ones in Harbor are mostly StarCraft and Minecraft, sometimes LotRO.

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 6:54 PM
Not leaving just yet, that's more a phrase when someone makes a joke they know is bad, heh.

Varda — Yesterday at 6:54 PM
; )

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 6:54 PM
As opposed to getting hoisted up and thrown out by the crowd, heh.

Varda — Yesterday at 6:54 PM
Eowyn turned on her camera too.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:54 PM
I am in the "Telegraph Mill"...it is a coffee house located in the old Lincoln Telephone and Telegraph warehouse. Very artsy atmosphere.
[6:55 PM]
Is Eowyn the same as Cenedra?

Varda — Yesterday at 6:55 PM
Yes

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:55 PM
Ah! Further revelations. This is getting interesting.
[6:56 PM]
Or hoist up by one's own petard?

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:57 PM
Heh. I could technically change my name to Calaron here as it is 1) a name I use far more widely online and 2) it is based on Pharazon/Calion, so almost a Tolkien name for my character
But Pharazon should still be less confusing!

Varda — Yesterday at 6:58 PM
Sandalf, Ciaran asks if you have StarCraft2. : )

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:58 PM
I do not want to intrude on what looks like a family  gathering...so I will close up my camera and keep on conversing iub meeting-place.

Varda — Yesterday at 6:59 PM
You are not intruding

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 6:59 PM
No! I do not! I have never yet played a computer game! I should really get started. AARP says that playing computer games helps keep you younger longer!

Varda — Yesterday at 6:59 PM
You did get an invitation though. : )

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 6:59 PM
Start with Pong?

Varda — Yesterday at 6:59 PM
Good plan!

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 7:00 PM
Yes. I remember. I also remember that I told you that as soon as I get Chapter Three into your hands, Varda., I would give LoTRO a try. Pong? What is that?

Varda — Yesterday at 7:00 PM
Not going to push you to game. : )  Might want to start the download sometime though. Takes a while.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 7:00 PM
I assume that Treebeard is just another handle for Fangorn.

Varda — Yesterday at 7:00 PM
Yes

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 7:00 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pong one of the first ever video games
    Pong
    Pong is a table tennis–themed twitch arcade sports video game, featuring simple two-dimensional graphics, manufactured by Atari and originally released in 1972.
    It was one of the earliest arcade video games; it was created by Allan Alcorn as a training exercise assigned to him by Atari co-founder Nolan Bushnell, but Bushnell and Atari co-founder...

[7:00 PM]
And, I daresay, one of the simplest!

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 7:01 PM
I think I already downloaded LoTRO on my computer. Ah! That looks old. My kids played Donkey Kong and Mario Brothers.

Varda — Yesterday at 7:01 PM
If you have any one of the names for a Tolkien character in our group, you have them all. Not true in other groups.
[7:01 PM]
It's ancient. : )

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 7:01 PM
I seem to remember seeing it in some old "video arcades" back in the u80s.
[7:03 PM]
Thanks, Ar! I copied the address down to my Notebook app also.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 7:03 PM
hehe

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 7:04 PM
It really IS a family thing for you and your family, Varda! Congrats! I am happy you can enjoy it together. What a wonderful thing!
[7:04 PM]
I like the cat.

Varda — Yesterday at 7:05 PM
O good. Ciaran is very fond of cats.
[7:05 PM]
The family cats are Thor and Loki, both inky black and huge. Giant purr machines.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 7:05 PM
None of my family are into fantasy, though they do like the LotR movies, and their gaming interest is also quite low. I'm afraid I won't get any of them into the guild, so kinda jealous of Varda

Varda — Yesterday at 7:06 PM
We used to really have  a big family thing going back in Diablo and WoW days.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 7:06 PM
The only guildmember I've known since before they joined the guild was Fladrif.

Varda — Yesterday at 7:06 PM
We were a guild in ourselves. : )

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 7:06 PM
When we lived on our acreage, we had SIX cats at the same time...good to have them around to keep the mice down. IO built a little cat door in the side door of the house so they could come and go as they pleased. We also had four dogs at one time. They slowly left us, as the kids grew older and headed out on their own.

Varda — Yesterday at 7:06 PM
They also have a golden retriever.
[7:07 PM]
They were considering naming him Odin but he got Starbuck instead. : )

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 7:07 PM
Well Ar...I will have to join you in a game sometime soon, so you have another person to game with.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 7:07 PM
Well, I don't play LotRO  Also, as I live in Europe, our schedules will be different.
[7:08 PM]
But I've got lots of online friends \o/ and sometimes see Arien in WoW as well.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 7:08 PM
That was a look at what the Tel Mill looks like.

Varda — Yesterday at 7:08 PM
drags Phar into LotRO
[7:08 PM]
I see  a pretty wall of windows

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 7:08 PM
Not to worry, Ar, I can make it happen. What games DO you like?

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 7:09 PM
Good luck, I don't have the time for any new game or activity that I'm not doing already

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 7:09 PM
Yes...that is one of the sitting rooms here at the Tel Mill.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 7:09 PM
World of Warcraft, mostly, when it comes to a community. Also some browser games and a flashgame or idle game here and there. Also other Blizzard games like Hearthstone.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 7:11 PM
Well...I had better follow through on what I said earlier. I will shut down my camera so I can concentrate on conversing with Ar and Eonwe. Namarie, all you Harbor people!

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 7:11 PM
Too many spinning plates?

Varda — Yesterday at 7:12 PM
Namarie and you can chat there aloud and type here as I'm doing.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 7:12 PM
You got that, Digger!
[7:13 PM]
I think I will really have to get my headphones if I try to talk here at the Tel Mill....still very noisy. Lots of conversations with students getting ready for their classes this week. The Spring Semester ends in only four weeks, then final exam week. Students leave Lincoln around the second week of May.
[7:14 PM]
That is amazing. Technology never fails to amaze this old dunderhead.
[7:15 PM]
That is me with my two granddaughters that live here in Lincoln. There is now a third. The gentleman to my left is my son-in-law, Garet.
Photo 1

Varda — Yesterday at 7:16 PM
Nice family!

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 7:18 PM
That is more recent.
Photo 2

Varda — Yesterday at 7:18 PM
How fast they grow!

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 7:19 PM
I don't have enough pictures....

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 7:19 PM
I know I've said this before...
[7:19 PM]
but you do remind me of Ian McKellen.
[7:19 PM]
And as Gandalf, that is a compliment

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 7:19 PM
Now THAT is a REAL compliment!  Thank you so much, Ar!

Varda — Yesterday at 7:19 PM
I agree.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 7:20 PM
After all, I am Sandalf...the 13th wizard.

Varda — Yesterday at 7:20 PM
hehe

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 7:20 PM
hehe

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 7:21 PM
I was too low on the Totem Pole to make it to Middle-earth. I am sort of stuck in the Great Sea somewhere.
[7:21 PM]
Maybe Ulmo will send me home somedauy.

Varda — Yesterday at 7:21 PM
Isle of Balar? : )

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 7:21 PM
Perhaps....or himling?

Varda — Yesterday at 7:22 PM
Beats a rowboat. Or Phar's fleet.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 7:22 PM
Some uninhabited island somwhere, living off of coconuts.
[7:23 PM]
Well, inhabited technically

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 7:23 PM
Of that I am in total agreement. I must get back to work. I am planning a trip to visit my sister in N.C., and her family, and need to make my travel arrangements with Southwest Airlines. I have $500 in travel credits after they completely bungled my visit to see the same sister when she still lived in Anaheim, CA, back in last October.

Varda — Yesterday at 7:23 PM
Good luck! Yikes

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 7:24 PM
Enjoy!
More than the last time anyhoo.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 7:24 PM
I spend a day standing in line, TWO HOURS in one line, and got as far as Dallas, where I was informed I could not get to Anaheim until Tuesday...and this was a Saturday. I managed to fly back to K.C. and stayed overnight there. Namarie all, and take care, EVERYONE!
[7:25 PM]
Thanks, Ar! Goodnight, all.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 7:25 PM
Namarie!

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 7:25 PM
Sleep well Sandalf

Varda — Yesterday at 7:25 PM
Namarie

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 7:25 PM
Thanks!

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 7:29 PM
Will just mention I came across a "best of" by my favorite internet composer, though it doesn't catch some of his later stuff by date
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbjcaMAhJRQ suitable for all occasions!
    YouTube
    Kevin MacLeod Archive
    Kevin MacLeod: BEST OF [Best known music by Kevin MacLeod]

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 7:29 PM
Urge to make Highlander joke,.. rising.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 7:30 PM
Heh, you wouldn't be the first. But if you're familiar with any amount of flashgames or youtube videos, you're bound to know some of his stuff.

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 7:31 PM
I might give it a listen sometime.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 7:32 PM
Good as background music!

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 7:52 PM
Personal gaming report!
[7:55 PM]
For (non)flashgaming, no kongpanion on kongregate this week, so no overview of the past 7 badges of the day.. which is annoying because now it's more difficulty to find a game I liked this week
[7:57 PM]
Let's give you... https://www.kongregate.com/games/TadasGloom/life-in-the-static
    Kongregate
    Life in the Static
    Life in the Static is a simple atmospheric platforming game where you have an ability to stop time. There are no cows in this game unfortunately.

[7:59 PM]
an interesting platformer originally meant to portray the stages of alzheimer, where you move through the levels trying to get to the brain at the end.
Watch out for static, and use your ability to stop time to make it through

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Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 8:10 PM
Blizzard gaming:

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 8:11 PM
Help!! I am back at home, and I clicked on the "X" to exit Discord, but for some reason, I am still hearing the talking in the background. What can I do?
[8:12 PM]
Ah. I hit the "Disconnect" button under Camera, and everything seems to have shut down. Thank goodness.

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 8:12 PM
X just closes the window. You should be able to exit it through your bar icons at the bottom, depending on what windows you've got.
[8:12 PM]
Ah, or that

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 8:13 PM
That works. Thanks so much, Ar, as always. Shouldn't you be in bed by now?

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 8:13 PM
Probably  But I'll do the report first.

Sandalf13 — Yesterday at 8:13 PM
Sorry to interrupt you, then. I apologize! Have a wonderful week and take care of yourself!  Sei gesund!

Ar-Pharazon-V — Yesterday at 8:14 PM
No problem!
You too.
[8:15 PM]
Hearthstone:
Made it to 175 on the reward track, and I do believe the new expansion's coming next week, with the new track. More cards to collect!
[8:17 PM]
Found out by accident that the diamond version of Drek'thar (legendary) is for sale in the shop for 3000 gold, which is quite unique, because usually it's either skins for free or bundles and stuff for real money only. While this is just basically a skin for a single card, I think I'll save up for it anyway
[8:19 PM]
Tavern Brawl is blood magic! Make a deck for a class of your choosing, all spells cost health instead of mana. So it's risky, but can make some killer combos.
[8:21 PM]
Personally I dropped in a bunch of direct damage spells in a mage deck, most of which doing more damage than they cost, as well as a few support cards like ice barrier and animated armor (making you only take 1 damage at a time) to get a deck with quite a good win ratio, especially if you go second, and your opponent doesn't manage to kill you right away but still drains half his health in the process.
[8:23 PM]
Mercenaries! Got another pack from a task, which gave me a new merc, Kazakus, as well as a new Rokara portrait. And a reward-pack later in the week also gave me a new Millhouse Manastorm portrait. Other than that, some merc leveling, mostly Vanndar and Nefarian, though no new max levels.
[8:24 PM]
The task system has changed a bit in this week's patch, where if you complete a task you automatically get the next one for that mercenary, so you can keep focusing on one at a time.
[8:25 PM]
I, however, enjoy getting tasks from random mercs and getting to play with a variety of them as I watch them grow, so I abandon each followup task so I once again fill the slots with random ones each day.
So for me, it's a bit of extra effort to keep the same system.
WoW:
[8:26 PM]
More raiding! Lords of Dread defeated, and got some attempts going on Rygelon. Not too complex, but needs some practice to get done. After that, just the Jailer awaits.
We've not started on heroic difficulty yet, but are planning to on tuesday.
[8:28 PM]
Weekly is world quests. I don't do them anymore otherwise, but for this weekly I've been doing 3 WQs a day, to get all 20 done by the end.
Which also got me enough anima to buy a flying mount, the Autumnal Wilderling.
Next up will be another appearance set, and then I think it's just soulshapes? Not sure.
Finally, alting!
[8:30 PM]
Mage is still 47, but she's completed the next chapter of the class campaign, repairing Dalaran's main magic weaponry, which had been sabotaged.
[8:31 PM]
Also started the final chapter, for the class mount, where I need to collect 3 disk-pieces, one for each mage spec, to create a powerful flying disc that adapts itself to your mage spec. I've seen what the fire one looks like, and I quite like it
If I get the mount before hitting 48, I'll probably find some other quests to do somewhere before she too heads into the Maw.
If I get 48 before then... I kinda want to finish the mount first, but we'll see.
[8:32 PM]
And that's my report for the week! (edited)
[8:33 PM]
Namarie

Eonw๋ Valar — Yesterday at 8:33 PM
Sleep well Phar.

Varda — Yesterday at 9:55 PM
Thank you, Phar

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