November 7, 2021
Sunday Meeting
5:00 P.M. Eastern Standard Time
Discord: Valar
Guild/meeting_place
Back to News
Transcript work by Varda.
[times are Central Time from Varda's Discord. Add one hour for
Eastern.]
Attending (and typed): (5)
Discord: Arien, Ar-Pharazon, Eonwe,
Shelob, Varda (presiding)
Before-meeting
Time change for Eastern from daylight savings
to standard
Meeting begins
Membership news:
Gimli
Elwing
Arien
Eonwe
Web:
Tolkien Site / Stories:
"Rillin" by Eonwe-(Valar),
posted Nov 4
Gaming:
World of Warcraft, Diablo 3, Hearthstone, more World of
Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online
Tolkien:
Topic
from Varda: How do we answer when people who need to do art,
such as painting or sculpting expensive material that they only
have one piece of, when it's a controversial question such as
"Do Balrogs have wings?".
Possibly the best answer of the night.
After-meeting:
Tolkien discussion continued.
(non)Flashgaming
Reviews (plus) by Ar-Pharazon. Includes Blizzard games.
Tolkien discussion continued.
top
Before-meeting
Eonwë Valar — 11/01/2021
You know, I went through all of Hallow's End without running the
Headless Horseman instance once. Tsk.
November 3, 2021
Eonwë Valar — 11/03/2021
Wow, I missed/forgot about the patch note for WoW that said
they're going to tell you on the character selection screen which
characters have unread mail. Kudos for that QoL change.
November 4, 2021
Eonwë Valar — 11/04/2021
Well I found Aelnir, and Aelnir now says I have to bring more
people with me before I can help him. Oh well, his loss :}
November 7, 2021
Varda — 11/07/2021
He wants the Herald to bring armies? Does he know how risky that
could be for the world?
[2:58 PM]
We just got home. And in time for the meeting! Yay!
[2:59 PM]
We had a time change, hah. The time right now is 2:58 pm for me,
which is 3:58 pm Eastern, which is the base for Europe to figure
out how far off we are at the moment!
Varda — 11/07/2021
Aiya! The time is now 5 pm Eastern. Welcome to the wonderful world
of time changes.
[4:01 PM]
@Bounder Huzzah! Time to join in with your fellow Valarites for
chat, gaming, Tolkien, and crazy gavels!
[4:02 PM]
Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
[4:02 PM]
A star shines on the hour of our meeting.
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Heya
Varda — 11/07/2021
Number one of course is that we just had a time change.
[4:02 PM]
Aiya Fionwe : )
[4:03 PM]
top
Membership:
[4:03 PM]
Happy to be home in time for the meeting. Also managed to grab a
LotRO report, yay!
[4:03 PM]
Anyone here please type Manwe
[4:04 PM]
Manwe
[4:04 PM]
If I type twice, do I get to be here twice?
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Manwë
[4:05 PM]
If you're here body and soul :}
Varda — 11/07/2021
heh
[4:06 PM]
Manwë
[4:06 PM]
There you go.
[4:06 PM]
Concerning membership:
[4:06 PM]
Gimli is in the hospital with an infected foot.
[4:07 PM]
Elwing is in the hospital for work on her heart.
[4:07 PM]
Arien is back from the hospital, but they haven't managed
to repair her walking problems yet.
[4:08 PM]
Fangorn, Sauron, and I visited Elwing and her family today
(Sunday), the family including DeepGroover-(T) who is still
working on models in his spare time.
[4:08 PM]
In cheerier news,
[4:09 PM]
my birthday is coming up on the 10th for the leveling to 68.
[4:09 PM]
There will be chocolate cake. passes around early cake slices,
guaranteed no calories
[4:09 PM]
Any other membership news?
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Happy early birthday :}
Varda — 11/07/2021
Thank you! extra ice cream with chocolate chip sprinkles for
Eonwe
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Looking at the calendar, some guy named Aragorn joined the guild
22 years ago yesterday.
Varda — 11/07/2021
Ah hah!
[4:12 PM]
Really? 22...years? I reckon that's right. (Eonwe's starting name
just happened to be Aragorn.)
[4:13 PM]
Congratulations on your anniversary. : )
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Thanks :}
[4:13 PM]
I did the math just to be sure :} 22 years alright :}
Varda — 11/07/2021
A fine double two.
[4:14 PM]
On to
top
Web:
[4:14 PM]
Tolkien Site / Stories:
[4:15 PM]
We have a new story out from Eonwe! As promised, it went up this
week whether the coding was quite perfect or not. But it's quite
readable so you can enjoy it!
This one works with the guild's anniversary theme and was written
for it, so thank you again!
http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/fiction/authors/Eonwe/stories/Rillin.htm
[4:16 PM]
This story comes before the Narn I Auros series, fitting right in
ahead of it.
Annnd the wrong stylesheet is in there.
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
It's part of the series Narn i Auros, not before it.
Varda — 11/07/2021
Since it's just us two, maybe we can work on it for a sec.
[4:16 PM]
Pardon, comes before the other stories we have up for Narn I
Auros.
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Aye, it's now the first story in the series. I never promised to
write chronologically :}
Varda — 11/07/2021
hehe
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
There will be stories that come before that one :} I have all the
way back to the Second Age to write, so alot of room, hehehe.
#
Arien Valar — 11/07/2021
i am lurking i am the Kurken ..
[4:23 PM]
The Kurken is lurkin '
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Hehe
Arien Valar — 11/07/2021
remember that questline? from azure island rielatively early
[4:28 PM]
azure mist island
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Now that you're reminded me, I think i do. Draenei starter area
quest.
Varda — 11/07/2021
Aiya Kurken Arien : )
[4:33 PM]
Pardon, got on a side page trying to straighten out some code
problems with Eonwe's help.
[4:33 PM]
We can work on it later.
[4:34 PM]
Arien, are you ok sitting up to the computer?
Arien Valar — 11/07/2021
yes indeed i am
Varda — 11/07/2021
O good!
Arien Valar — 11/07/2021
I am up normally more or less just using a stick up and down
the stairs
Varda — 11/07/2021
Is it just when you walk?
Arien Valar — 11/07/2021
it is a lot better then what it was but yeah that s when it makes
trouble sometimes
[4:37 PM]
not quite up to scratch i ll admit that but acceptable
Varda — 11/07/2021
Something that's not constant seems very difficult for repairmen
including doctors to fix. May it go well for you!
Arien Valar — 11/07/2021
thanks
Varda — 11/07/2021
Here's hoping they help you out in the coming week!
[4:37 PM]
On to
top
Gaming!
[4:38 PM]
Eonwe, would you like this handy dandy gavel for Gaming?
(folks, remember you can add in your news to the report too)
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Sure. Every now and then my controller could probably use a good
whack.
[4:39 PM]
Oh, you meant to give the Gaming News. Sure, I'll still
take it.
[4:40 PM]
:}
Varda — 11/07/2021
pops my own mouse and lets the gavel pogo stick to Eonwe,
pleased with itself
[4:40 PM]
mouse is seeing stars
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Gaming:
[4:41 PM]
World of Warcraft:
Patch 9.1.5 came out this week. --- https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23731242/updated-october-28-915-content-update-notes
World of Warcraft
[UPDATED NOVEMBER 1] 9.1.5 Content Update Notes
- WoW
9.1.5 is live!
[4:42 PM]
Check out this week's hotfixes. --- https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23739169/hotfixes-november-5-2021
World of Warcraft
Hotfixes: November 5, 2021 - WoW
Here you will find a list of hotfixes that
address various issues related to World of Warcraft: Shadowlands,
Burning Crusade Classic, and WoW Classic.
[4:42 PM]
Also see the blog Into the Shadowlands: Catching up at 60. --- https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23722040/into-the-shadowlands-catching-up-at-60
World of Warcraft
Into the Shadowlands: Catching up at 60 - WoW
If you’re ready to enter the Shadowlands for
the first time, or are returning after a hiatus, then this
catch-up guide is for you.
[4:43 PM]
Diablo 3:
[4:43 PM]
Now up on the PTR: Patch 2.7.2. --- https://us.diablo3.com/en-us/blog/23730897/diablo-3-ptr-272-%7C-now-live-11-1-2021
Diablo III
Diablo 3 PTR 2.7.2 | Now Live
Our two-week PTR testing period for the 2.7.2
update begins on November 4, and we're asking for your help to
quell the tides of surging demons.
[4:45 PM]
Hearthstone:
[4:45 PM]
There's two items to check out this week:
[4:45 PM]
Mercenaries – What’s Next --- https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/news/23743654/mercenaries-what-s-next
Mercenaries – What’s Next
Come learn about the Mercenaries launch and
future plans.
[4:45 PM]
Batten Down the Hatches, the Deadmines Mini-Set is Here! --- https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/news/23740124/batten-down-the-hatches-the-deadmines-mini-set-is-here
Batten Down the Hatches, the Deadmines Mini-Set
is Here!
Delve into the Deadmines in Hearthstone’s
all-new, 35-card Mini-Set!
[4:47 PM]
Also in WoW: on the
schedule for next week's bonus event is Warlords of Draenor
TImewalking.
[4:49 PM]
Also says PvP Brawl will be Deepwind Dunk.
[4:50 PM]
This week's Bonus Event/ Pvp Brawl are World Quests and Gravity
Lapse, respectively.
[4:51 PM]
Lord of the Rings
Online:
[4:51 PM]
The newest expansion: Fate of Gundabad, launches November 10th.
[4:52 PM]
There's a couple of features coming later than Update 31. Read it
here. --- https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?690330-Upcoming-Release-Date-Information-For-Several-Upcoming-Features
Upcoming Release Date Information For Several
Upcoming Features
We wanted to update everyone on our release
date plans for a couple of features we have been working on.
The Legendary Item reward track and the two
three-person Instances in Fate of Gundabad called Den
of Pughlak and Assault on Dhurstrok will be released
after the release of Update 31.
We currently expect to release the Instances in
Update 31.0...
[4:52 PM]
No timetables in there, just update numbers.
[4:53 PM]
A new blog is out: Battle Gauntlets and Brawling: Making A New
Class. --- https://www.lotro.com/en/game/articles/battle-gauntlets-and-brawling-making-new-class
The Lord of the Rings Online
Battle Gauntlets and Brawling: Making A New
Class
[4:54 PM]
Some Eonwë guy has been messing up my perfectly good player tables
by levelling his characters :}
Varda — 11/07/2021
; )
[4:55 PM]
I'll have to send a batch more player table wreckers for you from
LotRO next!
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
I do have to say it's kinda fun having crafting give experience
because it's always funny to see one of my alts used mainly for
his crafting to cause a giant glowing tree to sprout, hehehe.
Varda — 11/07/2021
yay giant glowing trees, Fangorn-approved!
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
(The celebration graphics for levelling)
[4:56 PM]
I'll let Varda give the list of people who's been spotted on LotRO
now :}
Varda — 11/07/2021
My pleasure.
[4:57 PM]
Landroval server:
Arien
Eonwe
Fangorn
Irmo
Nar
Thranduil (character had been gone
over a year, yay back)
Varda
Anor server:
Eonwe
Varda
Shadowfax server:
Arien (edited)
Varda
Treebeard server:
Arien (edited)
Varda
[4:57 PM]
Very happy to have Arien back on that list. May she feel well and
remain on it for many more lists!
[4:57 PM]
Also, note we had Thranduil back after over a year, good to see.
[4:58 PM]
I suspect it's from the recent letters sent out by Eonwe. : )
Arien Valar — 11/07/2021
i did have a quick look on Shadowfax and Treebeard to see if i
coujld catch you but missed you shortly
Varda — 11/07/2021
Also, much running of instances to grab gold legendary traceries.
Sari-Surma instance is great for that. Monday a group of us plan
to try Ivhar in Garth Agarwaen's Barrows.
[4:59 PM]
Almost made it, Arien! I rushed through, not home long.
[5:00 PM]
Sooo, we can add your name to the slider servers. : )
Arien Valar — 11/07/2021
if u like ^^
Varda — 11/07/2021
some trouble editing that long paste here. It can be added in the
transcript though.
[5:02 PM]
Did you make it to Anor server too?
[5:02 PM]
Soo many servers. : )
Just have to hit 50 on one of the slider servers to get the title
on Landroval. : ) I hope to do that. It's like picking up
the Elladan cape from a temporary pvp server.
[5:04 PM]
it went to all my characters on any server on the account.
Handsome cloak.
[5:04 PM]
Soo, back to gaming.
[5:04 PM]
Any other games we'd like to mention?
[5:05 PM]
StarCraft 2: Fangorn, Eowyn, Faramir, and grandson Ciaran
as players that I know of.
[5:05 PM]
Minecraft: Eowyn, grandson.
[5:05 PM]
I'm assuming Pallando in Eve but don't actually know.
[5:07 PM]
Any other news of any kind, suggestions, comments, requests,
invites? and oboy just got more web fixes to do after the last
batch. Not hard though.
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
Aiya! Catching up. And got member-ish news as well
Varda — 11/07/2021
Aiya Phar : )
[5:09 PM]
Glad you could make it. : )
[5:11 PM]
We are already over time, so here's a quick Tolkien topic coming
up. Break in with member news and comments as you become ready.
[5:11 PM]
top
Tolkien:
It's easy to think that it doesn't matter what
we decide on little things like Do Balrogs have wings.
[5:12 PM]
Right until an artist or sculptor with expensive material asks
whether they should put wings on their work.
They want to be accurate.
It's nice to be able to come to some conclusion with some reason,
or at least make it quite clear why they can go either way with
it.
[5:13 PM]
For that particular question (and there are others to wrestle,
obviously),
Arien Valar — 11/07/2021
aiya phar
Varda — 11/07/2021
we know that early on, others could fly besides those of Manwe and
Varda.
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
Aiya Arien, caught up Congrats Varda on birthday, Eonwe on
anniversary, and Arien on... being home?
Varda — 11/07/2021
But the evil ones lost the ability after becoming evil, sometime.
[5:14 PM]
heh, thanks Phar. And it's good to have Arien, aye!
#
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
But I'll cut in with my unusual member sighting.
Varda — 11/07/2021
Fire away. : )
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
Over the last few months I've been watching a youtube playlist of
Creeper World 3, going through the campaign and a bunch of custom
maps, put up by a popular twitch streamer.
[5:15 PM]
This also comes with twitch chat from the time added on the side.
[5:16 PM]
And lo and behold, it's a small world indeed, for I happened to
see a familiar name among the chat there
Apparently someone called menelvagor_valar was in that chat, back
in the 2019 video
And I just knew I had to mention it here tonight!
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Assuming it's one and the same, hehe.
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
Well, the valar suffix seems a bit coincidental if it's not
Arien Valar — 11/07/2021
would be a weird chance yes that Valar thing
Varda — 11/07/2021
Shelob would enjoy hearing about that. : )
[5:19 PM]
Thank you, Phar!
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tbxe1YPrZE
would be the video
YouTube
BRNKoINSANITY
In for the Long Haul o_0 - Creeper World 3: Arc
Eternal
Arien Valar — 11/07/2021
she ll see it in the log and in here Phari
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
Considering this menelvagor is a bit of a backseat gamer and the
first time I noticed the name it was to correct someone's English,
it does seem like Shelob
[5:20 PM]
No offense to our spidery friend
[5:22 PM]
But I was also pleasantly surprised that Shel's got some an
interest in the Creeper World series. I had no idea, we should
discuss it at some point as I'm still playing CW3 sometimes
Varda — 11/07/2021
Good idea.
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
Anyway, that was my sighting, though more "member" than "news"
#
Arien Valar — 11/07/2021
i remember the Balrog was described of having wings albeit he
didnt seem able to fly as such
Varda — 11/07/2021
Thank you, Phar.
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
As I recall, he had wings of shadow, so that might just have been
an illusion.
Arien Valar — 11/07/2021
despite neither he nor Gandalf was shattered after reaching the
ground
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
As for Manwe and Varda and the rest, just because they flew
doesn't mean they had wings, exactly.
[5:26 PM]
Levitation's a godly thing.
Varda — 11/07/2021
Also, the winds may have been more memory showing up in his shadow
self. We know they probably didn't or couldn't work.
[5:27 PM]
Aye on levitation.
That not shattering on hitting the ground is a good point. I
wonder if that was because of Gandalf. The balrog just lucked out
being attached.
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
Birds (including eagles) had wings. Next-gen dragons had wings.
Not sure about others.
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
I recall earlier versions having wings, and I can see in a general
sense it going either way. On one hand, would the Balrogs, when
taking physical form, have to comply with the laws of physics. On
the other hand, if Sauron can transport his ring in spirit form,
there's no reason Balrogs couldn't move about the air without
wings. Fionwë is not said to have wings as he moves about.
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
I like to imagine Fionwe with winged shoes like Hermes.
Varda — 11/07/2021
Wings are not a requirement for flight, aye. But the shadow moved
out like wings rather than a shadowy swirl or a glob around it.
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Even if the wings were not physical, it wouldn't be far-fetched to
say their are a manifestation of the Balrog's power.
Varda — 11/07/2021
We know Tilion was attacked on the moon by flying servants of
Sauron. Could have been balrogs. Dragons weren't around yet, I
believe?
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
Good point.
Varda — 11/07/2021
The wings or other flight mechanisms were gone by the War of the
Ring.
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Winged dragons were late in the First Age, near the end.
Varda — 11/07/2021
Smaug is a trick though.
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
Might be balrogs of a sort, if this was before the "there were
only 7" era.
Varda — 11/07/2021
He had wings.
[5:30 PM]
Aye, ,Phar.
Arien Valar — 11/07/2021
and he could fly aye
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
As I recall, they were a last ditch effort in the War of Wrath.
Morgoth had been holding them back.
Varda — 11/07/2021
When the balrogs were riding dragons that didn't fly, the dragons
were mechanical, and a very early story.
[5:31 PM]
Aye, the dragons like Ancalagon were a late-comer to the fight, a
weapon in development until then.
[5:32 PM]
If they had had practice, the fight might have been longer and
harder.
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Yeah, winged dragons were not seen until the War of Wrath. Just
checked my almost-pocket Silmarillion, heh.
Varda — 11/07/2021
When the story went to only 7 balrogs instead of oodles of them,
that changed a lot of what we might think.
[5:33 PM]
We don't hear what happened to the other 6. Were they considered
killed off, as by Glorfindel? Are others still asleep where no one
delved too deep?
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Not a very impressive title to be "Gothmog, lord over 6 other
Balrogs"... :}
Varda — 11/07/2021
O look what the mohole found.
[5:34 PM]
hehe
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
Gothmog... didn't he drown in the Gondolin fountain?
Varda — 11/07/2021
When the balrogs are that powerful, it might be.
Arien Valar — 11/07/2021
7 balrogs? . hmm 7 rings for the dwarves in the halls of stone and
the balrog turns up in Moria the old dwarf city ?
Varda — 11/07/2021
We had the big fight with lots of balrogs in the Sil, so we
could go with some version of that, aye Phar.
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
"Some few" means there had to be more than 2 that survived the War
of Wrath.
Arien Valar — 11/07/2021
chance or no?
Varda — 11/07/2021
Seven balrogs, dwarf city, suspicious.
[5:35 PM]
Rings were mostly melted by dragon fire
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
The balrogs were the corrupted versions of the first 7 dwarf
lords. It all makes sense.
Varda — 11/07/2021
hah
Arien Valar — 11/07/2021
hehe i like that
Varda — 11/07/2021
The balrogs were Maiar, but your idea is fun too. : )
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
Well, that's what they wanted you to think.
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
I know the "7" number was in HoME/UT, but I don't think that was
ever officially set in stone, more one of Tolkien's musings.
Anyone have the quote area in mind?
Varda — 11/07/2021
Interesting that the one in Moria didn't seem to use words with
Gandalf.
[5:37 PM]
That's definitely something to look up. And there's a lot he left
unset and contradicted on purpose to be more like real history.
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Balrogs and Istari are both Maiar. Maybe they didn't need to use
words.
Varda — 11/07/2021
Telepathy, as we know Gandalf could do? Verrrry likely.
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
Maiar staredown.
Varda — 11/07/2021
So the hobbits would not have been aware.
[5:38 PM]
heh
Bushy eye-browed Istar for the stare win! (bids 5)
Arien Valar — 11/07/2021
True but Gandalf did adress the Balrog first when they met ..
although that might have been for the benefit of his companions#
Varda — 11/07/2021
or part of his spell.
Arien Valar — 11/07/2021
aye
Varda — 11/07/2021
I need to look back at that. And it could have been both reasons.
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
More difficult to show off if you do it in silence.
Varda — 11/07/2021
Let his companions know what he's doing. Or to aid focus since he
said he was already tired.
[5:39 PM]
I didn't get a show-off vibe from it.
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
Well, some sort of intimidation tactic anyway
Varda — 11/07/2021
Possible.
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Well, apparently invoking certain names do have power. Gandalf had
to be listing off his credentials for a reason, hehe.
Varda — 11/07/2021
And the balrog probably understood him fine.
[5:41 PM]
Display, intimidation is often used in the natural world to
prevent having to fight. Even the winner may take unfortunate
damage. As Gandalf did.
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Aye. Kinda like saying "we can both still walk away."
Varda — 11/07/2021
Gandalf got rid of the balrog's fire, apparently, when he talked
about fire. Servant of the Secret Fire is one who comes from Eru.
[5:42 PM]
Right.
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
What else would his "You shall not pass" accomplish if not try to
intimidate the balrog?
[5:42 PM]
Enrage it?
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
"You shall not pass! No wait! Wait! You can pass! You can pass!"
Varda — 11/07/2021
Telling it that it's not going to pass, so there. That's the goal.
Not telling it he was going to kill it just for being there.
Arien Valar — 11/07/2021
i found the passage .. chapter "The bridge of Khazad Dum*
Varda — 11/07/2021
Another way of going with we don't have to fight and take damage
or death. Just back off.
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
Ah, so in other words "we can still walk away from this unless you
try to pass" ?
Varda — 11/07/2021
Aye
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Look at how many outs he gave Saruman.
Varda — 11/07/2021
Great, Arien. : )
[5:44 PM]
Gandalf had a kindly streak. : )
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
Only fair to give your opponents a chance.
[5:45 PM]
I mean, the mobs in WoW don't have to come for me when I moonfire
em. They can just run away.
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Even then, Gandalf didn't go up into Orthanc and deal with
Saruman. He left him there with still the chance to turn away from
the path he'd taken. Saruman flat out refused, and then kept
trying to twist the knife (pun only slightly intended) even
further to his own eventual ruin.
Arien Valar — 11/07/2021
"You cannot pass." The orcs
stood still, and a dead silence fell. " I am a Servant of the
Secret Fire , wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass. The
dark fire will not avail you, flame of Udun! You cannot
pass! Go back to the shadow"
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
I must afk for a moment.
Shelob — 11/07/2021
Good eve.
Varda — 11/07/2021
Aiya Shelob : ) [Note: while putting up the transcript, noticed
"The orcs stood still" so more than the Balrog may have been
affected here. Very strong spell.]
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
Aiya
Varda — 11/07/2021
Arien, please feel free to continue the quote. One of the most
dramatic scenes in Tolkien.
Arien Valar — 11/07/2021
"The Balrog made no answer.
The fire in it seemed to die but the Darkness still grew. It
stepped slowly forward on the bridge,, and suddenly it drew
itself up to a great height and its wings were spread
from wall to wall : but still Gandalf could be seen,
glimmering in the gloom, he seemed small, and altogether alone,
grey and bent like a wizened tree before the onset of a storm"
[5:54 PM]
quote finish
[5:54 PM]
i think thats the relevant bit
Varda — 11/07/2021
and its wings were spread from wall to wall
[5:55 PM]
That sounds awfully definite to me. Shadow wings or not.
[5:55 PM]
Thank you!
Shelob — 11/07/2021
Are we discussing the possibility of wings on the Balrogs?
Varda — 11/07/2021
Gandalf took away the fire there. He has the Ring of Fire. He is
"a Servant of the Secret Fire". Humble not saying "the".
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
Original, eh?
Varda — 11/07/2021
Sure!
Arien Valar — 11/07/2021
aiya Shelob !
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
Yes, it does seem definite.
Varda — 11/07/2021
If an artist or sculptor asks us what to do with a picture or
model of a balrog, as has happened, what would we answer. Shrug "I
dunno at all"?
Shelob — 11/07/2021
Because if it is, I think just prior to that passage, it is
specifically stated that the wings were made of fire and flame.
[5:57 PM]
Shadow and flame*
[5:57 PM]
or some such wording.
Varda — 11/07/2021
Feel free to make the quote same as Arien did. : )
[5:58 PM]
The Bridge of Khazad-dum chapter, as Arien said.
Shelob — 11/07/2021
I can't at the moment, because I seem to have misplaced all my
Tolkien books a few years back when I got rid of a lot of stuff.
Varda — 11/07/2021
Time to get a Kindle or some such? : )
Arien Valar — 11/07/2021
(i have for that always the book on the shelf ready :P)
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
I guess, tell him to give the balrog wings spread from wall to
wall
[5:58 PM]
Depending on the size of the statue, and the room...
Varda — 11/07/2021
It's a huge area.
Shelob — 11/07/2021
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnoq5SbNEHQ
YouTube
GeekZone
What were the Balrogs of Morgoth? | Lord of the
Rings Lore | Middle...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_DpjEhufhM
YouTube
In Deep Geek
How powerful was the Balrog?
These are incredibly good explanations on the Balrogs though.
Varda — 11/07/2021
It's nice to do our own digging but thanks for the YouTubes.
[5:59 PM]
We'll have fun looking at them.
[6:00 PM]
I have to go make supper.
gavel puts on paper wings with glue
Shelob — 11/07/2021
Oh yes, I agree it would be great to do my own digging, but this
is a good secondary option when the first is unavailable.
[6:00 PM]
Bon Appetit!
Varda — 11/07/2021
wings wobble but hang on until...
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
Enjoy!
Varda — 11/07/2021
Thwomp!
[6:01 PM]
But the wings did their duty. Back to the Halloween shelf for
them!
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
back
top
Varda — 11/07/2021
After-meeting!
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
And the balrog had wings of Paper and Glue...
Varda — 11/07/2021
Shelob, just have to get the rest of these folks to look it up for
you. : )
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
And they broke off and fluttered from wall to wall.
Varda — 11/07/2021
Now you know why they could reach the walls!
[6:01 PM]
I'll read back later, for sure. : )
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
The simple answer would be that they were
"wings of flame and shadow." Make them look like flames and shadow
:}
Varda — 11/07/2021
: )
Shelob — 11/07/2021
"His enemy halted again,
facing him, and the shadow about it reached out like two
vast wings."
According to Tolkien Gateway, chapter
5 of the Fellowship, "The Bridge of Khazad-dûm"
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
If you put the lighting right on your model, it should be able to
portray wings of shadow
[6:02 PM]
Ah, the shadow! There we go.
[6:03 PM]
Speaking of moves to intimidate, hm.
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Ok, there's the quote. So make them wings of shadow :}
Shelob — 11/07/2021
And as to the oft-used verb that the Balrogs "flew" on occasion,
that is negated by the fact that Gandalf was definitely not
addressing the Balrog when he said, and I quote, "fly you fools"
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
Or maybe it was short for "He can fly, you fools!"
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Except when they assailed objects positioned waaaay above the
ground with no tether or ladder with which to reach them, "flying"
in the commonly understood sense would have to be expectation :}
Shelob — 11/07/2021
The first mention of
Balrogs in the legendarium is in "The Fall of Gondolin" of The
Book of Lost Tales, in which they are lesser beings and counted
by hundreds. In their description there is no mention of
wings.[1]:169 There is also an explanation of how Melko did not
know the secret of flying, so he caught many Eagles to squeeze
them this knowledge, but they did not tell him anything, so he
cut their wings and made a pair of wings for him.[1]:193 This
would not be necessary if Melko's Balrogs already had the
ability to fly; therefore, in their first conception, Balrogs
did not have wings.
[6:06 PM]
Taken from http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Balrogs/Wings
Balrogs/Wings
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
Well he's not gonna cut off his balrogs' wings, is he?
[6:07 PM]
Also, that is some nightmarish Gothmog art.
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Seems to me that version would not have held up by the end. Melkor
was smart enough to understand the mechanics.
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
"What is this 'aerodynamics' doohicky?"
@Ar-Pharazon-V
Well he's not gonna cut off his balrogs' wings, is he?
Shelob — 11/07/2021
Morgoth would have if it had furthered his goals.
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
If he only had a limited number of balrogs... then again, in that
case that might not be true.
[6:10 PM]
Why cripple one of your strongest minions if you're not even sure
it's gonna work?
Shelob — 11/07/2021
Book of Lost Tales he had hundreds.
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
Myeah, if he had hundreds he might value them less :0
[6:11 PM]
*
Shelob — 11/07/2021
But most of them were presumably killed in the war of wrath.
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
They died by the scores in Gondolin. And yeah, after that...
Arien Valar — 11/07/2021
well trhat was interesting enough to keep me going that long %%#
Shelob — 11/07/2021
Morgoth was about one thing and one thing only, his own personal
power. If he had thought that giving the Valar Sauron's head on a
pike would have gained him something, he would not have hesitated
for even a nano-second.
[6:13 PM]
Good to hear Arien! Get well soon!
Arien Valar — 11/07/2021
but wings or not i have to fly upstairs ~ or rather hobble
stop hobble stop hehe
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
Oh, of course. But he still valued the balrogs' use to him, so
taking the effort to capture some eagles instead must have been
worth it.
[6:13 PM]
Namarie Arien! Hobble well!
Shelob — 11/07/2021
Heh, that is pretty much my life at the moment as well Arien.
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
The hobbling hobbit.
Arien Valar — 11/07/2021
Nmarie all
[6:13 PM]
take care all
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Sleep well Arien.
Shelob — 11/07/2021
Namarie!
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Re: giving the Valar Sauron's head on a pike. --- I don't know, I
think he would've hesitated, but not out of loyalty. I
think, just like in the War of Wrath, he would throw anyone and
anything at the Valar to save himself, but if we're talking about
just sitting across the proverbial table, the Valar say "Hey, give
us Sauron's head on a pike." then the wheels in Morgoth's head
would start turning as to why the Valar wanted that, going into a
Vezini (from Princess Bride) - level induction on what it
could mean.
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
Just put the poison in both cups!
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
For those few who don't get the reference :} : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMz7JBRbmNo
YouTube
Movieclips
The Princess Bride (5/12) Movie CLIP - The
Battle of Wits (1987) HD
#
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Anyway, I hope you all enjoy the new stories, one posted last
week, and the one posted this week.
#
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
There, just saw some stuff on the Forum that needed cleaning up.
Problem solved.
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
Ah yes, the spam. Had noticed.
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Hmm, anyone else having issues with the forum?
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
Not me. What kind of issues?
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
When I follow the link it says proboards isn't working right now.
[8:24 PM]
Says it sent an invalid response.
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
weird
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Hmm, opens for me fine in Edge's inprivate as a guest.
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
weirrrrrd
Eonwë Valar — 11/07/2021
Gonna try logging in I guess.
[8:26 PM]
Login is ok, so I know I didn't break my account, lol.
[8:28 PM]
But still, weird.
top
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
Perrrrsonal gaming report
[8:52 PM]
For (non)flashgaming: 1 old, 1 new, 1 remastered
Ar-Pharazon-V — 11/07/2021
https://www.kongregate.com/games/ZBlip/mine-of-sight
for the first game! Minesweeper but with various puzzle mechanics
being introduced along the way in combination, like nonogram
hints. Good luck with all the levels... and remember, no guessing
involved!
Kongregate
Mine of Sight
Minesweeper#39s weird cousin. Use a variety of
clues to find all the mines. Over 100 levels.
[9:04 PM]
https://www.kongregate.com/games/flori9/circloo-2
is the new game, a physics/gravity puzzle game where you move a
ball through each level, only being able to go left and right, to
get past obstacles and reach the goal. When a goal is reached, the
level expands in a circle to show the next goal. Complete all
levels, and if you like, try to get it within 24 minutes total;
you can replay each level to cut back on the time.
Kongregate
circloO 2
A colorful physics platformer in a growing
circle.
You#39re a small ball rolling around in a round
level. Collect circles to grow the level. As it grows, everyt...
[9:04 PM]
And there's an original with the same concept as well to be found
there, though without timers.
[9:06 PM]
https://www.kongregate.com/games/IriySoft/cursed-treasure-2-remastered
for the third game! A non-flash remaster of one of my favorite
upgrade/towerdefense flashgames, protect your gems from the good
guys coming for them Use 3 types of towers, each of which
can only be placed on a certain terrain. You can focus your
upgrades on one type, but it's often better to spread out a bit
too, to get general upgrades as well as making use of more of the
level.
Kongregate
Cursed Treasure 2 Remastered
=== #39Remastered#39 means it#39s now HTML5 and
it#39s ported from the mobile version, that has a number of
noticeable improvements compared to the Flash version
The...
Oh, and within the levels, each tower can be upgraded as well,
ultimately choosing specialties to hinder your enemies even more!
[9:08 PM]
Unlimited experience potential too, unlike some of these games,
allowing you to get all the upgrades after a certain grind, though
you shouldn't really need all of them to beat the game. But I like
doing so anyway
top
[9:11 PM]
Blizzard gaming:
[9:12 PM]
Hearthstone:
Made it to 128 on the reward track.
[9:12 PM]
Got enough gold along the way to buy the Deadmines miniset as a
whole, which is always nice
[9:14 PM]
Brawl is a weird one... Fairytale Brawl, where you choose one of 5
classes dressed up as fairytale characters. Every turn you choose
one of 3 buffs/events to play, while the AI takes care of the rest
of your turn, which is, as far as I know, unprecedented.
[9:14 PM]
And the AI is.... not very good at it. I've not seen too many bad
things myself, but I've heard stories of priests healing the enemy
hero rather than throwing out lethal and making a lot of other
awful choices.
[9:15 PM]
Though I suppose that could be because they wanted to give them a
sort of fairytale personality or something? I don't know.
[9:16 PM]
Anyway, best classes to pick seem to be warrior and hunter, I won
a few with warrior myself because it focuses on pirates, and one
of the random 3 abilities for all players can be to summon 3
pirates.
[9:16 PM]
For mercenaries, bit more progress. Got a few felwood fights done,
as well as a heroic encounter in the barrens for a quest.
[9:18 PM]
Got several heroes to the maximum level of 30, Cariel, Rathorian,
Millhouse, and Murk-Eye, because they had tasks for it. Got 2
packs along the way, giving me 2 new mercs, Tamsin Roame and
Cookie, the murloc chef who's part of the Deadmines patch/miniset,
which also gave 5 Deadmines mercs to the merc pool.
[9:19 PM]
WoW:
[9:20 PM]
Raiding popularity seems to get a biiiit better again, though that
might be because we're only doing 2 raidnights instead of 3, so
maybe people burn out less? I'm not sure. No progress though.
[9:21 PM]
Weekly is world quests, and as I don't do callings anymore, this
week I'm just trying to focus on any WQs that give 6 or 7 anima
tokens.
[9:22 PM]
With Torghast beast event, I decided to tackle layer 12 difficulty
in attempts to get the Flawless achievements. Had no success with
that though I did get 4 stars on each. Buffing up the tanky pet is
still a lot of fun
[9:23 PM]
And 9.1.5 came in!
[9:24 PM]
I immediately got into some of the new features: Putting my
soulshape on random, and buying a couple of travel and flightforms
from the AH from people who'd gotten the recipes early. Prices are
still high for that reason, and the travel form I ended up going
with, the midnight stag, was 45k gold But totally worth it,
it looks amazing.
[9:24 PM]
And for flightform I got a moth shape, which I'm also very happy
with
[9:25 PM]
But I also bought a couple of other ones, in case I want to
switch. So now I have access to the shimmering moth and sable
moth, and the twilight runestag and midnight runestag.
[9:25 PM]
As said last week, I hoped to postpone getting more renown by not
doing the weekly quests. But I ended up getting 3 from other
unexpected places!
[9:26 PM]
Got to 76 through the weekly brawl, 77 through the weekly dungeon
(should've seen that coming) and 78 from Torghast.
[9:26 PM]
Only being 2 behind, maybe those won't be sources anymore. And if
they are, I'll get to 80 anyway.
[9:27 PM]
Along the way I got the last Wisp of Memory, allowing me to give a
companion a massive amount of xp. Since all my other followers
were nearing the max I had been holding off on recruiting the last
companion, Yanlar, but after getting the wisp I recruited him and
used it to get him from level 1 to 38.
[9:28 PM]
And now he's slowly leveling with the rest of them, who are
hanging around level 58. Almost there!
[9:28 PM]
Got a new toy, Choofa's Call, from the conservatory. Also seems
new in 9.1.5. It summons a few of the ghostly critters.
[9:30 PM]
And finally, had progress with my paladin alt Alcaria! Got her a
level, to 47, almost ready for Shadowlands, while finishing up the
initial class campaign for Legion, doing wqs and ultimately
slaying Balnazzar in the Netherlight Temple. That got me several
achievements, several new followers, and finally opened up the 7.2
questchain for the classmount.
[9:30 PM]
I'll be working on that next during my next level, though I
probably won't finish it before I head into SL. But that's fine,
can always continue in the future after her Shadowlands work is
done
[9:31 PM]
And that's my report for the week!
[9:34 PM]
Namarie!
top
November 8,
2021
@Eonwë Valar
Re: giving the Valar Sauron's head on a pike. --- I don't
know, I think he would've hesitated, but not out of
loyalty. I think, just like in the War of Wrath, he would
throw anyone and anything at the Valar to save himself, but if
we're talking about just sitting across the proverbial table,
the Valar say "Hey, give us Sauron's head on a pike." then the
wheels in Morgoth's head would start turning as to why the Valar
wanted that, going into a Vezini (from Princess Bride) - level
induction on what it could mean.
Shelob — 11/08/2021
I completely agree, hence why I said "if he thought he stood to
gain".
November 10, 2021
Eonwë Valar — Today at 7:08 AM
See all you LotRO people on the other side of the server downtime.
Varda — Today at 11:54 AM
While putting up the transcript, noticed "The orcs stood still" so
more than the Balrog may have been affected here. Very strong
spell.
[11:57 AM]
"it drew itself up to a great height and its wings were
spread from wall to wall"
"the shadow about it reached out like two vast wings"
[11:58 AM]
This makes me wonder if the Balrog has a memory of once having
wings, since the power of flight was removed from the evil Maiar
and Valar, leaving only those of Manwe and Varda able to fly.
[11:59 AM]
That could explain why the shadow isn't a cloud all around or a
cloak or a swirling cloud.
[12:01 PM]
Even if not a memory of actual wings, it could be a memory of the
ability to fly perhaps returning to it at the sight of the Maia
Olorin/Gandalf/Mithrandir, causing the shadow to shape into wings.
Perhaps to remind Olorin more strongly that it's a Maia also.
top