Valar Guild

January 26, 2019 Sunday Meeting

5:00 P.M. Eastern time (-4 GMT aka 9 P.M. aka 21:00)
Discord: Valar Guild/meeting_place

Back to News
Transcript work by Varda.
[times are Central Time from Varda's Discord. Add one hour for Eastern.]
["slight smile" is the same as we are used to using as a regular smiley]

Attending (and spoke): (9)
    Discord: Anarion, Arien, Ar-Pharazon, Celebrian, Elrond, Eonwe, Fladrif, Pallando, Varda (presiding)

Before-meeting
Meeting begins
Membership news
Web:
    Story by Shirebound, posted yesterday: "Where Many Paths and Errands Meet".
Gaming:
    EVE Online: major report by Pallando
    General reports: World of Warcraft, Hearthstone, Heroes of the Storm, Lord of the Rings Online. Starcraft 2. More on Heroes of the Storm. Dirt Rally 2, Chess
Tolkien:
    Link
    Topic: LotR: a goal-directed pursuit that led to altered characters, situations, and relationships.
After-meeting:
   Flashgaming Reviews by Ar-Pharazon

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Before-meeting

Eonwe ValarLast Thursday at 9:42 PM
Heya all. Just popping in to tell WoW players not to miss their chance at the Ivory Cloud Serpent from Vale of Eternal Blossoms :} If you can get through the thousands of other people trying to get it too, hehe.
 
VardaToday at 4:00 PM
Aiya!
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:01 PM
Aiya!
As for the serpent, I got mine :smile:
We were camping it with about half a dozen people, only had to wait 20 minutes myself. Most of us were in time to get it that time.
 
VardaToday at 4:01 PM
Huzzah!
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:02 PM
2 second cast on a fast moving target, that despawns 10 seconds after the first taming. It's tricky.
 
VardaToday at 4:03 PM
Had to earn that one.
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:03 PM
Yep. Not even mentioning you having to find the lasso first by killing mogu all over the place. Got mine really fast, but people  have been farming for hours.
 
VardaToday at 4:03 PM
My computer gave up a while ago, possible overheating. If I disappear abruptly during the meeting, it's not on purpose.
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:04 PM
Alright.
 
VardaToday at 4:04 PM
Would have been helpful to mention!
is that event over?
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:04 PM
Only during mogu assault, and I think mantid is going now. It switches halfway across the reset.
 
VardaToday at 4:05 PM
Thanks
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Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!

Membership:
Please say Manwe if you're here. I haven't poked anyone.
Manwe
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:06 PM
Manwe
 
FladrifVToday at 4:06 PM
Manwe
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:06 PM
I'll poke Arien :slight_smile:
Aiya Flad!
 
VardaToday at 4:07 PM
Yay Ent!
 
FladrifVToday at 4:07 PM
I just secretly walked in (luckily we have the moots in the forest otherwise I would not go unseen)
 
VardaToday at 4:08 PM
Just a bit shadier all of a sudden.
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:08 PM
Arien'll be here in a minute.
 
VardaToday at 4:08 PM
Thank you, Phar
 
FladrifVToday at 4:08 PM
sorry I have been a bit heavy on the entdraught lately
 
VardaToday at 4:09 PM
So that's why it keeps getting shadier at these meetings!
 
FladrifVToday at 4:09 PM
gained a twig or two so yes
 
AnarionToday at 4:09 PM
Aiya!
 
VardaToday at 4:09 PM
Aiya Anarion! : )
 
FladrifVToday at 4:09 PM
Aiya

ArienValarToday at 4:10 PM
Aiya Varda , will be in Lurker mode for a bit but peep in now and again
and all the others of course .. sorry to hear u got stability problems

VardaToday at 4:10 PM
Lurkers welcome : )

Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:10 PM
Aiya Anarion and Arien!

FladrifVToday at 4:11 PM
that is the other reason why it gets darker every now and than!

VardaToday at 4:11 PM
tiny stars like fireflies light up the meeting table

ElrondToday at 4:12 PM
Aiya

VardaToday at 4:12 PM
Aiya Elrond and Arien : )

Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:13 PM
Aiya Elrond!

Pallando-ValarToday at 4:13 PM
Aiya

VardaToday at 4:13 PM
Aiya Blue Wizard : )
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Web News:
New story out yesterday by Shirebound:
"Where Many Paths and Errands Meet"
"After the Council of Elrond, Legolas introduces himself to Bilbo... with surprising results." "This story is book verse – At the end of the Council of Elrond, only Frodo and Sam were definitely traveling South with the Ring. No one else had yet volunteered." 1 chapter.

Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:14 PM
All roads lead to Rivendell.

VardaToday at 4:14 PM
True in LotRO too. ; )
http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/fiction/authors/Shirebound/WhereManyPathsandErrandsMeet.htm
    Where Many Paths and Errands Meet
    fanfiction Fellowship of the Rings. After the Council of Elrond, Legolas introduces himself to Bilbo... with surprising results.

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Gaming News:

EVE Online:

Pallando, you had some gaming news for us?

Pallando-ValarToday at 4:15 PM
Sure do! So a few weeks ago I was talking about a long campaign I was in the middle of.
As of about an hour ago, that campaign has come to a tentative close as the hostiles have surrendered.

VardaToday at 4:16 PM
O wow!

ElrondToday at 4:17 PM
Good deal, who were you fighting ?

Pallando-ValarToday at 4:17 PM
We opened talks a week or so ago with them, but could not come to an agreement as they insisted on continuing their extortion and blackmail activities in what we consider our space. They approached us today with an offer to evacuate entirely from our area, and we have accepted.

Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:17 PM
Huzzah!

Pallando-ValarToday at 4:18 PM
Pending them actually leaving, the war is over and we won. We intend on doing a nice big writeup over the next few weeks to publicize the fact, and I'll be sure to pass that link in here when that happens.

VardaToday at 4:18 PM
Sounds like an improvement in living for your group.

Pallando-ValarToday at 4:18 PM
@Elrond if you saw the scope video a few months ago that talked about the big fight in Hek? The aggressors in that war were the hostiles who we just forced into a surrender.
1
Hog Collective
Well it's certainly an improvement for me. I've been running fleets almost daily for usually hours for something like 4 months?

VardaToday at 4:19 PM
Did others come in to help against that ugliness? Just your group?

Pallando-ValarToday at 4:19 PM
My GF is very happy..

VardaToday at 4:19 PM
hehehe

Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:19 PM
That makes it all worth it

Pallando-ValarToday at 4:19 PM
Some very close friends of ours helped from the start. The entire tale is actually pretty good, lots of drama and twists and turns and so on.

Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:19 PM
Make it a trilogy novel!
The lord of the... space?

VardaToday at 4:20 PM
Going to be an interesting write-up.

ElrondToday at 4:20 PM
Maybe the in next history of new eden book

VardaToday at 4:20 PM
Starlords?

Pallando-ValarToday at 4:20 PM
I'll ahve to reach out to Andrew about that at fanfest.

Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:20 PM
Lord of the Stars. That's good.

ElrondToday at 4:21 PM
There's a book series about all the wars and politics. 2nd one is being worked on, 1st one is a good read -
https://www.empiresofeve.com/
    Empires of EVE

Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:21 PM
The epic novel War and Space.

VardaToday at 4:21 PM
Thank you. We'll have to check that out.

Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:22 PM
...I hope that reference did not fly over everyone's heads.

Pallando-ValarToday at 4:22 PM
All successful alliances are the same, Ar.
Do really support the recommendation of Empires of EVE. It's very well written. There will be a re-release of Volume I when II is published.

ElrondToday at 4:24 PM
Just different flavors of koolaid, just pick the one you want to drink.

Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:24 PM
"Eve of War"
How about that?

VardaToday at 4:24 PM
Pallando, sounded as if we about to be treated to some good philosophy.

Pallando-ValarToday at 4:24 PM
Anyways, when I have the full writeup of our little war I'll post it.
That's all for me, lots of diplomatic work and logistics to attend to right now unfortunately.
Finishing a war is almost as hard as running it..

Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:25 PM
Have fun..?

VardaToday at 4:25 PM
Thank you, Pallando!
May it go well!
Anything else to add to that stupendous Eve news?

CelebrianToday at 4:27 PM
Aiya

Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:27 PM
Ehr... we've got 5 bosses down in normal Ny'alotha in the first week so far and I've got my cloak up to rank 7?

VardaToday at 4:27 PM
Aiya Celebrian : )

Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:27 PM
Aiya!

ElrondToday at 4:27 PM
Plenty of Plex for Good events to send aid to Australia. Just finished one killing the 2nd triglavian dread -
https://zkillboard.com/kill/81282897/
    zkillboard.com
    Zirnitra | Shaftmaster Mastershafts | Killmail
    Shaftmaster Mastershafts (ChemiKals) lost their Zirnitra in 1DQ1-A (Delve).
    Final Blow by Jorry Cassel (El Ultimo Hombre) flying in a Bhaalgorn. Total Value: 46,416,661,896.61 ISK

Eonwe ValarToday at 4:28 PM
Heya all. Rank 6 on my cloak. Could have it 7 or 8 depending on my luck if I wanted to run that Horrific vision more, heh.

Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:28 PM
7 is the current maximum. 8 will be next week

VardaToday at 4:28 PM
Aiya Eonwe : )

Eonwe ValarToday at 4:29 PM
Ok, then 7 :}

Pallando-ValarToday at 4:29 PM
Ooh yeah! I'll expand on what Elrond put. CCP is running PLEX for good, taking donations of the item that represents gametime, and donating the proceeds to the Red Cross to help with the Austrialian bushfires.

Eonwe ValarToday at 4:29 PM
Obviously I'm not keeping up with the limit on the cloak :}

Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:29 PM
You will soon! At 1 rank a week it should be easy-ish to catch up.

VardaToday at 4:29 PM
That's fantastic, Pallando and Elrond

Pallando-ValarToday at 4:29 PM
MY alliance did some auctions to generate some donations. I'm not sure of the total number but it should be around 10b.

VardaToday at 4:30 PM
b?

Pallando-ValarToday at 4:30 PM
Which is ~$100 US
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:30 PM
Inflation.
 
VardaToday at 4:30 PM
Thanks for the translation. Amazing for a game.
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 4:30 PM
keeping up = keeping track of
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:30 PM
Oh,that works :slight_smile:
 
Pallando-ValarToday at 4:30 PM
Scott Manley of Kerbal Space Program fame paid1001001 PLEX to buy a ship that was auctioned for the same
that's about $33,000
 
VardaToday at 4:31 PM
Egad
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:31 PM
For a good cause, too. That's amazing.
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 4:31 PM
1001001? Sounds like a number to convert from binary for some hidden significance, lol.
 
Pallando-ValarToday at 4:32 PM
it was opened at like 100,000?
And then Scott offered 1m
a few punters tried to keep driving up the price by 1 plex, until CCP told them that messing with the auction would get a ban because it was part of PLEX for good
but by then scott had already upped it
he was offered the chance to return to his original bid since the others were invalid, but he declined
He donated another 10,000 PLEX (so 3k more) directly, saying that if he won or lost the auction that was the minimum he was giving.
And that's really it for me, gotta do spacework!
 
VardaToday at 4:35 PM
Namarie!
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:35 PM
Namarie!
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 4:36 PM
Have fun!
 
VardaToday at 4:36 PM
Impressive. The power of doing good. : ) Fighting, donating.

Eonwe, do you have time to do Gaming News?
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 4:37 PM
I can, sure.
 
VardaToday at 4:38 PM
Yay! Fire when ready.
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 4:38 PM

World of Warcraft:
This week's Bonus Event: Pet Battles.
Call of the Scarab begins today and runs through Thursday, January 23rd.
The raid Ny'alotha, the Waking City is now availabe in Normal and Heroic difficulties.
The PvP Brawl: Warsong Scramble begins today and runs through Tuesday, January 28th.
Coming next week will by Mythic and LFR wing 1.
The Lunar Festival began this week and runs through Friday, February 7th.
Check out the newest hotfixes. : https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23277654/hotfixes-january-23-2020
    World of Warcraft
    Hotfixes: January 23, 2020 - WoW
    Here you'll find a list of hotfixes that address various issues related to World of Warcraft: Battle For Azeroth.

Hearthstone:
Check out Celebrating Lunar New Year in Hearthstone! :https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/blog/23282776/celebrating-lunar-new-year-in-hearthstone
    Celebrating Lunar New Year in Hearthstone!
    We’re stringing the lights to kick off the Lunar New Year in style!
    Beginning January 29th, the tavern will celebrate with a new Tavern Brawl, themed quests, and rewards!

Heroes of the Storm:
Check out the balance patch notes. : https://heroesofthestorm.com/en-us/blog/23237905/heroes-of-the-storm-balance-patch-notes-january-22-2020-2020-1-22/
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm
Legendary heroes and villains from Warcraft, StarCraft and Diablo are summoned to the Nexus. Choose your hero and prepare to fight in Heroes of the Storm!

Check out the blog Imperius, Anduin, Qhira, Deathwing, and more: Heroes of the Storm 2019 in review. :https://heroesofthestorm.com/en-us/blog/23290531/imperius-anduin-qhira-deathwing-and-more-heroes-of-the-storm-2019-in-review-2020-1-23/
    Heroes of the Storm
    Legendary heroes and villains from Warcraft, StarCraft and Diablo are summoned to the Nexus.
    Choose your hero and prepare to fight in Heroes of the Storm!

Lord of the Rings Online:
Apparently I missed them on the Gaming News, but a couple of LotRO news items as well:
 
VardaToday at 4:42 PM
: )
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 4:42 PM
Update 25.3 came out this week: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?678073-Update-25-3-Release-Notes
    Update 25.3 Release Notes
    Here are the Release Notes for Update 25.3, released on Wednesday, January 22nd.
    Of Special Note:
    New Minas Morgul Expansion Instances

One temporary instance closer for duo groups: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?678123-Temporary-Instance-Closure-Size-2-ONLY-Halls-of-Black-Lore
Temporary Instance Closure - Size 2 ONLY - Halls of Black Lore
    Ghashan-Kutot, The Halls of Black Lore cannot currently be completed when the Fellowship size is set to 2. This will be corrected in a hotfix in the near future. In the meantime, the two-person version of this Instance has been temporarily closed.

And they're working on fixing the launcher problem that's stopping the news from displaying in the launcher. Should be in the next update: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?678106-Launcher-Issue-Launcher-Newsfeed-not-displaying
    Launcher Issue: Launcher Newsfeed not displaying
    We are working to correct an issue preventing the LOTRO game launcher newsfeed from displaying. This should be able to be corrected during our next game update.
    In the meantime, for those who have the ability and technical know-how to view an xml file or RSS feed, you can...
 
VardaToday at 4:45 PM
Ahh, a work-around.
I managed to slip into The Halls of Black Lore before it was closed down, got the win but no fancy bookstands. Was lucky! Now able to enter any of the new instances (when up).

Lord of the Rings Online players report by server for this past week:
Landroval:
Eonwe
Fangorn
Mirabella
Morwe
Nar
Nimrodel
Varda

Ithil:
Dis
Falco
Fangorn
Varda

Anor:
Fangorn
Varda
.
Thank you, Eonwe! : )

Eonwe ValarToday at 4:47 PM
MP.
 
VardaToday at 4:47 PM
Any other news from our various games? Clear your throat or something and let us know!

StarCraft 2 has been seeing action from Fangorn, Eowyn, and the grandson. : )
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:48 PM
Event in Heroes of the Storm has been extended by 2 months.
I guess it now also doubles as Lunar Festival.
 
FladrifVToday at 4:49 PM
some hearthstone and Dirt rally 2, it is a bit fast for a slow ent but I will get better
and some chess puzzles however that was offline
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:49 PM
Not sure what that means about the development budget, but at least it gives people more time to get their quests done.
 
VardaToday at 4:50 PM
Flad, just step on them if they try to go too fast. Should slow them down.
 
FladrifVToday at 4:51 PM
bridges are my main problem
if I have to go under them that is
 
VardaToday at 4:51 PM
hears the bridge crashing into the water below I see.
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:51 PM
Limbo tree?
 
FladrifVToday at 4:52 PM
roflol
 
VardaToday at 4:53 PM
Someone has to draw that.
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:53 PM
hehe
 
FladrifVToday at 4:53 PM
I tend to avoid dancing limbo it reminds me of the fellow huorns on the back of logging trucks
 
VardaToday at 4:53 PM
Animation would be great.
Branches approaching at speed.
Ok, I'd better move on to our Tolkien topic. Hour approaching at plaid speed.
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Tolkien:
First, does anyone else have a question on a Tolkien-related topic, or a moment to quote? Or a link?
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 4:55 PM
The Valar Guild! They've gone plaid!
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:55 PM
Could give my link from the harbor here if you like.
 
VardaToday at 4:55 PM
: )
Sure. : )
That way it goes into the transcript too.
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:56 PM
Bit spoilerriffic since it concerns the ending of the final raid of this expansion, but the victory cinematic of Ny'alotha in WoW has a rather plain LotR movie reference!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEKkEfIYMEo
    YouTube
    World of Warcraft
    Ny'alotha: Raid Finale

VardaToday at 4:57 PM
In Harbor, Elrond commented on this.
ElrondYesterday at 8:58 AM
Yeah I saw that @Ar-Pharazon-V, first it goes DBZ, then the ending of LOTR
(Dragonball Z. Spelling?)
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:58 PM
Right spelling, yes :slight_smile:
 
VardaToday at 4:59 PM
Ok, now that everyone is watching the show...

Here's a topic to play around with.
According to Steven James, author of 17 novels and 2 books on writing,
stories aren't just lists of things that happen or progressions of things that go wrong.
"They are goal-directed pursuits that lead to altered characters, situations, or relationships."
So it made me think
several questions for us. First is easy for this crowd. : )
In the Lord of the Rings, we can see an obvious, goal-directed main pursuit. What was that?
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:01 PM
We're taking the Hobbits to Isengard - I mean the Ring to Mordor.
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:01 PM
Mushrooms!
 
VardaToday at 5:01 PM
heh, yep
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:01 PM
And a shortcut thereto!

Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:01 PM
hah, yes
 
VardaToday at 5:01 PM
Why wasn't this goal obvious to Sauron?
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:02 PM
He didn't think anyone was mad enough to try it rather than keep his power for their own.
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:02 PM
He couldn't perceive that anyone would resist the lure of the Ring to give it away, let alone destroy it.
 
VardaToday at 5:02 PM
Everyone wants power, surely!
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:02 PM
Just seeing it from Sauron's perception :wink:
 
VardaToday at 5:03 PM
Force others to do your obviously more correct will.
Keep oneself safe and comfortable. Of course they would use the Ring. And depose him as a threat to power.
.
Among the Fellowship, do we see any characters who changed over time? Who? What was the person like before and after the Ring quest? This may also involve the changing of relationships.
Let's keep it just to the Fellowship at first at least.
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:06 PM
Frodo liked the idea of adventure more than actually having one. He was done with the whole business of adventure by the end.
His intent was focused on resisting the Ring the whole time. We got a small glimpse of what some of those temptations were. The whole experience gave him a clearer perspective on what gnawed Gollum in the back of his mind, and one could say what gnawed at Sauron and Saruman, though theirs is of their own making.
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:09 PM
Merry and Pippin were a bit naive and dependent on each other, but both grew separately as loyal and honorable fighters.
 
VardaToday at 5:09 PM
Merry, Pippin, and Sam were seen as heroic fighters when they returned to the Shire, aye.
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:10 PM
He ultimately succombed to the Ring as well, meeting the final test to his ability to resist, and having seen the limits of his own endurance was more loathe to,.. to put it one way,.. eliminate one's ability for chances at redemption.
 
VardaToday at 5:12 PM
He gained great understanding.
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:12 PM
While he understood the need to act against Saruman's men in the Shire, he did not want them killed if it could be avoided (including Grima), and he also wanted to give Saruman, the perpetrator of the crime, the continued chance for redemption.
 
VardaToday at 5:13 PM
His compassion allowed events to play out in a way that saved everyone.
One of Gandalf's Valie that he worked with was Nienna, of Pity and Compassion. He was teaching Frodo about it, reminding him of Bilbo's kindness towards Golllum, not killing him when he had the chance.
Some say Sam didn't change. Did you see any change?
How about becoming even more of what he was when he started, until he became pretty much Ultimate Sam.
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:18 PM
Ur-Sam.
 
VardaToday at 5:18 PM
That would be not-Sam, wouldn't it?

Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:18 PM
No, that would be pretty much the Sam of Sams.
 
VardaToday at 5:19 PM
That works. : )
Any change in that Boromir guy?
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:20 PM
Well, I would say he did learn a lesson or two in the journey.
He referring to Sam.
 
VardaToday at 5:20 PM
Agreed
same
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:20 PM
I'm thinking right now about when he saw Frodo dealing with Gollum.
The book says (paraphrasing) "Sam assumed Frodo's kindness must also come with a good deal of naivete."
After that he realized that kindness and that sort of "blindness" does not always come hand-in-hand. One can be kind and also be fully aware of who they're dealing with.
 
VardaToday at 5:23 PM
That's an important one.
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:24 PM
Good call. You don't have to be disrespectful when you don't really trust someone.
 
VardaToday at 5:26 PM
As Kingpin says, "Civility, civility. Always civility."
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:26 PM
hehe
 
VardaToday at 5:26 PM
Even a villain can sometimes make a good point. ; )
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:27 PM
Also a component of compassion: giving someone the chance to redeem themselves, to "show their quality."
And hehe about Kingpin :}
 
VardaToday at 5:29 PM
Exactly. And good to bring up Faramir's comment there, as well. Given difficult circumstances, a person has a chance to show their quality. To others and to themselves.
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:30 PM
Which leads into Boromir: He did show his quality.
 
VardaToday at 5:31 PM
He did. : )
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:31 PM
He messed up big time, and he knew it. He didn't shrug it off, he didn't make excuses, he didn't try to say that everything he did was "for the greater good", and he did the only thing he could do at that point: make amends by protecting Pippin and Merry.
 
VardaToday at 5:32 PM
That is a really big point. He didn't try to make excuses, just did his best to do right the next chance he had.
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:33 PM
We should all take example from it!
 
VardaToday at 5:34 PM
Last up, Gimli and Legolas?
How did they change by the end of the Quest?
 
AnarionToday at 5:35 PM
Now those are some goals that really changed
I mean, Boromir too, but he didn't live long enough to really see it happen
 
VardaToday at 5:36 PM
Can you imagine Legolas taking any Dwarf with him on a boat to the Grey Havens at the beginning?
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:36 PM
Well, they became good friends :slight_smile: Started appreciating what the other liked.
 
VardaToday at 5:38 PM
and healed the rift between the Dwarves and Elves, since they were leaders as well by the end.
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:39 PM
How useful to have so many leaders among the Fellowship, though their leadership skills did increase through the adventure :slight_smile:
Many a great house would be in serious trouble if the Fellowship had fallen.
 
VardaToday at 5:40 PM
Boromir fell, leaving Faramir in his place.
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:40 PM
Good thing he had a brother :wink:
 
AnarionToday at 5:41 PM
It is hard to really know Legolas and Gimli before they start changing as characters. Gimli is a little bit easier, because he was deluded by dwarven accomplishment and quickly takes that one to the face. Legolas seems to share a lot of viewpoints with Glorfindel and Aragorn, so I don't see as much change in him.
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:41 PM
Their biggest changes are in the attitude towards each other.
 
VardaToday at 5:42 PM
Early in the writing, Glorfindel was to be a Sinda. That changed, apparently, to Noldo. This left Legolas as the one available who was an elf not under the influence of a Ring, plus young enough to not take over from Frodo.
 
AnarionToday at 5:42 PM
I'd say that may be true of Legolas, but I'd contest that with Gimli
But that's mostly because of conservation of detail and an ensemble cast
 
VardaToday at 5:43 PM
Gimli didn't seem all that friendly towards elves, especially the son of one who imprisoned his father.
True. We didn't get to see a lot of personal detail. I would have loved to see more.
Sam was very excited about seeing elves, then said they were above his likes and dislikes. Yet he got to know one on the journey, but no comments about his thoughts.
 
AnarionToday at 5:45 PM
Gimli seemed plenty friendly (though still standoffish I guess) to one elf before he made friends with Legolas...
 
ArienValarToday at 5:45 PM
Galadriel?
 
AnarionToday at 5:45 PM
indeed
 
VardaToday at 5:46 PM
Aye. Seeing Gimli's attitude towards Galadriel helped soften Legolas' view of Gimli.
 
ArienValarToday at 5:46 PM
He was a bit ... captivated by her beauty and by her compassion and understanding towards him
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:47 PM
The Noldor had good relations with the Dwarves of Moria in the Second Age, from whom Gimli and the Dwarves of Erebor were descended.
 
ArienValarToday at 5:47 PM
almost i d say ;smitten a bit but i n a way of the medieval minne you know? adoring , love yes but in the way one would love a teacher
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:48 PM
I find the term smitten always rather innocent :slight_smile:
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:49 PM
I believe "courtly love" is the concept I've used or heard used in the past to describe Gimli in relation to Galadriel.
 
VardaToday at 5:49 PM
Courtly love, agreed.
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:50 PM
Serenading outside her window?
 
ArienValarToday at 5:50 PM
hehe
 
VardaToday at 5:50 PM
Platonic
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:50 PM
ah :slight_smile:
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:50 PM
Think it's been several years since we last touched on it, or at least that I've commented on it so don't know if I was quoting someone or not when I referred to it way back then. I doubt I'm the first person to make the connection though, so there's that :}
 
ArienValarToday at 5:51 PM
medieval minne songs hehe .. grin .. lovely picture : Gimli with a lyra sitting under Galadriels tree :wink:
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:52 PM
Courtly love --- more or less, a knight's devotion to a maiden, usually of noble birth, that is not likely to ever culminate in anything more serious. Usually played up in medieval stories.
 
AnarionToday at 5:52 PM
Indeed. I like that.
 
VardaToday at 5:52 PM
The most he might hope is carrying her favor, such as a scarf (lock of hair!) into battle.
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:53 PM
Seen in the Arthurian stories, Chaucer I think,.. been a long time...
 
ArienValarToday at 5:53 PM
or a lock in a block of gold as family heirloom!
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:53 PM
But then there's something like Lancelot and Guinevere, where it did go further...
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:54 PM
Can't lock a lock in a block!
 
VardaToday at 5:54 PM
That wasn't courtly love. : )
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:54 PM
Gotta put it in crystal to show off!
 
ArienValarToday at 5:54 PM
ah yes indeed ^^ i thought actually gold makes no sense and then i remembered Gimli;s words about crystal :wink:
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:55 PM
:}
 
VardaToday at 5:55 PM
Protecting the favor and therefore also her?
right, it was crystal
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:55 PM
Yeah, Lancelot and Guinevere could be a case study in why it shouldn't go further, heh.
 
VardaToday at 5:55 PM
True. : )
 
AnarionToday at 5:56 PM
My argument as whole is that Gimli goes from being blinded by glory to being merely optimistic about it, and from being hardheaded to open. Not just about Legolas or elves, mind, but about Dwarven society's goals and achievements and to an extent the fate of middle-earth as a whole. Now given the thing with Galadriel I don't think he was as closed off as he initially appeared (I don't think he was at the council of Elrond just to help represent Dwarven interests).
In that his friendship with Legolas is a relatively small part
 
VardaToday at 5:57 PM
Good comments. However, Gimli came to the "council" when his dad, Gloin, brought him along.
 
AnarionToday at 5:58 PM
I suppose I don't know in Dwarven culture whether he had a choice in coming
 
VardaToday at 5:58 PM
Celeborn might have lopped off Gimli's head, being a warrior king, if it went any further.
It was an adventure!
 
AnarionToday at 5:58 PM
I feel I'd rather face down Arthur than Celeborn
 
VardaToday at 5:59 PM
Agreed. I don't think Celeborn would have thought twice about it and didn't need Gimli.
 
ArienValarToday at 6:00 PM
Lancelot was King Arthur's best friend and he owed him for the loyalty and deeds of years before .. and that is why he didn't kill him
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 6:00 PM
Although that wouldn't have gone over good for diplomatic relations without some explanation.
 
ArienValarToday at 6:01 PM
Celeborn had no such obligation towards Gimly
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 6:01 PM
Might still be problematic if they found out he'd been killed by an elf on their important mission.
 
VardaToday at 6:01 PM
and Lancelot was an excellent warrior, their best, needed in all that fighting.
Gimli did ask a lot when he asked for a hair. Feanor had asked the same thing and been refused. She gave Gimli three.
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 6:03 PM
Yeah, well if you'd ever met Fëanor you'd understand :} (I kid :})
 
VardaToday at 6:03 PM
hehehe
 
ArienValarToday at 6:04 PM
well she was Feanors cousin or niece was it?
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 6:04 PM
Cousin.
 
ArienValarToday at 6:04 PM
so i guess she knew him well
 
VardaToday at 6:04 PM
The last question in this vein for you guys (and it is getting late!):

Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 6:04 PM
I think niece.
Finarfin's daughter wasn't she?
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 6:05 PM
Er, doh, yes.
Niece is correct.
I wasn't visualizing the family tree correctly.
 
ArienValarToday at 6:06 PM
sheds a ray of gold light up the family tree
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 6:06 PM
Finarfin is Fëanor's brother, so that makes him Galadriel's uncle.
 
VardaToday at 6:06 PM
Daughter of Finarfin and Earwen (who was cousin to Luthien).
 
ArienValarToday at 6:07 PM
there we go :slight_smile:
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 6:07 PM
Easy to lose track of generations when you don't age.
 
VardaToday at 6:07 PM
Finrod, Angrod, and Aegnor for older brothers.
I did wonder if Galadriel had any other children. Celebrian may have been the only child. Considering their longevity, it's interesting how few children some of these elves had. But maybe that longevity is the cause, as they don't need many replacements!
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 6:09 PM
If memory serves from Laws and Customs of the Eldar the average was 2-3.
 
VardaToday at 6:10 PM
So that's about replacement level.
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 6:10 PM
Physically, they could have children their entire adult life, if they were so inclined, but they're not as a general rule.
They have a few within a relatively short (for Elves) amount of time, raise them and move on.
 
VardaToday at 6:13 PM
Well, we have gone over the hour and then over the next hour. Having wayyy too much fun. : )
Thank you all for coming and making this such an interesting time!
Feel free to continue in After-meeting if so inclined. Some need sleep or supper. Feel free to join up with each other in gaming!
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 6:13 PM
Wasn't ehr... didn't they have a son?
 
VardaToday at 6:14 PM
Who? Celeborn and Galadriel had Celebrian.
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 6:14 PM
Or was Amroth not theirs?
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 6:14 PM
I think there's a story of Amroth being Galadriel and Celeborn's son,... in UT or HoME.
I don't believe that ever got into LotR or Sil though.
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 6:14 PM
Maybe that was just one version.
 
VardaToday at 6:15 PM
Some have said he was their son, interesting. Just found that.
 
ArienValarToday at 6:15 PM
I guess i need some sleep after having purged SM library and armory and this interesting conversation :slight_smile:
and work in real of course :wink:
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 6:15 PM
:}
 
VardaToday at 6:16 PM
He was a king of Lorien, apparently, from the song.
"Of old he was an Elven-king,
A lord of tree and glen
When golden were the boughs in spring
In fair Lothlórien."
ArienValarToday at 6:16 PM
:slight_smile:
Namarie my dear Valarites :slight_smile:
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 6:17 PM
Sleep well Arien :}
 
VardaToday at 6:17 PM
The idea post-dates the LotR, according to Christopher, and ws later rejected.
Namarie Arien!
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 6:17 PM
namarie!
 
VardaToday at 6:18 PM
After Amroth left, Celeborn and Galadriel took over the leadership of Lothlorien.

the hammer tries to hop forward, but tangles in a hair
the sun rises, the hammer lifts up. Aule brings it back down
It lands neatly on the hammerpad, for Aule's aim is good
thonnnk!

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After-meeting!
and off I go to see to supper for these long-suffering men, who probably already have been into the refrigerator. : )
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 6:20 PM
:}
Take care Varda :}
 
VardaToday at 6:21 PM
waves from the cheery stars
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 6:27 PM
Enjoy!
 
Eonwe ValarToday at 6:40 PM
OK ladies and gentlemen, I must be off as well. Take care all, good night, sleep well, and have fun :}
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 6:40 PM
namarie!
 
VardaToday at 7:00 PM
Namarie
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 7:01 PM
Right. Personal report time for those still here or reading later!

VardaToday at 7:01 PM
I need to turn off this computer before it gets too hot again, but will certainly read what comes next later on!
Namarie
 
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 7:01 PM
Alright :slight_smile:
Namarie!

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Let's start with some flashgames then.
https://www.kongregate.com/games/thepodge/dibbles-3-desert-despair is the first! I mentioned another episode of this series a few weeks ago with a wintery theme, this one is, obviously, desert :wink:
    Kongregate
    Dibbles 3: Desert Despair
    The Dibbles are back with 44 all-new levels to solve.
    This time they are in the desert and the king has come specially dressed for the occasion, donning a nat...
Lemmings-style, give your dibbles suicidal commands to get the king (and any extras) safely to the other side of the level.
In this case the king is a pharaoh and the goal is to get from pyramid to pyramid.

https://www.kongregate.com/games/ArmorGames/hedgehog-launch-2 is the second game, send a hedgehog to Mars! An upgrade game, where you get to upgrade your launcher, boosters, and other stuff to finally bounce all the way to Mars. See how fast it can be done!
    Kongregate
    Hedgehog Launch 2
    You are both a gentleman and a scholar; deserving of both monocle and prost!
    Three cheers for you! Alas, before we raise our drinks too high we must finish w...

Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 7:38 PM
https://www.kongregate.com/games/LongAnimals/sticky-ninja-academy for the third game, and the only new one for me this week. Make your way across levels, sticking to surfaces and jumping from place to place in a trajectory. Get to the end of the level in as few jumps as possible!
    Kongregate
    Sticky Ninja Academy
    Can you become a Sticky Ninja Master? Try in this unusual platform / puzzle game to progress to the ninja heights.
    Get through 30 levels, defeating enemies to...

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Blizzard gaming:
Heroes of the Storm:
1 level gained to 387, that 1 level was from Diablo, who went to my target level of 15, getting gold! Fittingly, it was in a brawl where I got MVP with him despite, through choosing him, I made sure our team had no healer. I took the risk, and it paid off.
In fact, I won all 3 brawls this time around, with the third one being my first match as Alexstrasza. I asked for some advice from the rest of the team, and got some good stuff for tactics and talents to pick, and as healers go, she's actually quite fun to play.
But with Diablo at 15, it's time to retire him from normal gameplay and choose a new Diablo tank, which I've decided to be Sonya the barbarian. I've had some success with her in brawls, and I think I'll try some whirlwind/selfheal build in my matches. I'm sure it'll be fun!
Hearthstone:
Did a bit less of this, because WoW took up a lot more of my time this week, and Hearthstone was often the first game I felt I could skip.
Still, a few more wins all around, and I tried the brawl, which was actually the same brawl as the week before, the prologue adventure to the new single player adventure. This time around I only got to about 3 matches however, where I ran into some bad luck. Still, reward pack gained.
The actual adventure is out now, with a free chapter and one to buy for gold, which I did. I always collect those, even if I never have the time to play them. I will need to shuffle hearthstone priorities at some point to get through all the adventures I've saved up :slight_smile:
And then WoW. So much WoW.
I started the week off by completing the quest to unlock my legendary cloak, and the various types of visions.
And unlock them I did!
With vessels, the entry fee to the horrific visions, saved up, I did a ton of them, and managed to quest my cloak all the way to rank 7, which is the maximum for this reset.
Along the way I've progressed quite a bit through the titanic research talent tree to make visions easier, obtaining several buffs, a self-revive, and the first of the 3 chest-types to see and open, though those aren't that important.
Today I even had my first run where I completed 2 corrupted side-zones before cleaning up the main boss, which is pretty good at this stage.
At rank 7 my corruption resistance went up to 27, which is quite good!
I've also gotten 4 new essences from the patch, each with 10 extra corruption resistance, and 2 of them are quite nice for my two specs, so I'm using those to bring my total resistance up to 37. Considering the weapons I want have 35 corruption on them, I'll be able to use them without any of the side-effects.
Also I got the necklace to 74 now, 1 level below the final essence slot. Soon!
Been doing more of the assaults as well, completing the achievement for doing all the Consuming Maw events, killing my first new worldboss, completing a mogu assault questline featuring Chen Stormstout, Li-Li Stormstout, a yak, and a lot of beerbarrels (there's a mantid one as well, which I'm saving for tomorrow), and obtaining the Ivory Cloud Serpent mount.
I've also been killing a certain mogu rare once a day for another mount, but no luck there.
And along the way I've looted a recipe book with all 5 new recipes from 8.3, mostly related to sanity and visions.
We started raiding Ny'alotha on normal! Cleared 5 bosses already, Wrathion, Maut, Skitra, Xanesh (freeing Azshara in the process) and Vexiona, the twilight dragon's new boss. Of these, Maut and Vexiona are the hardest on normal so far. Maut is one of the bosses that drops weapons I want, but didn't get it yet. I'm sure it'll come!
Tuesday we'll be tacking the Hivemind, who drops the other. Hopefully more luck there!
Also this week, the Lunar Festival has started, with a new questline. I completed the starter quest to charge up a staff in various moonwells, and the next four quests will be to upgrade the four cosmetic crowns so I can use their appearance all year long instead of just for the holiday.
I'm saving those for next reset, since this one was rather busy, and there's still that  mantid questline tomorrow.
Still, if there are going to be quests for all the holidays to permanently unlock their appearances, they'll be worth doing!
Expeditions! This week had Skittering Hollow with Nerubians, which was exactly what I needed for my last queststarter for the Tell me a Tale achievement. This one was special, as while most queststarters from expeditions are randomly given whenever the race is present on an island, Vorus'arak's Carapace is a guaranteed reward from a specific rare on the Skittering Hollow island. But it's quite a rare appearance, even when you get the island.
We spent almost 2 hours on friday and 45 minutes on saturday, but found the shiny scarab boss at the end, which completed my achievement and progressed that of the rest of the party, who are still missing others.
And along the way I got a new pet too, a ghostly Tinder Pup :slight_smile:
And finally, speaking of pets, this reset has the weekly quest for pvp pet battles! I use those to work on pvp brawl achievements with specific families, and this week I finished the flying pet achievement.
Only 2 more achievements to go until that's done, which means 4 more pet weeks. Should be done later in the year!
And that's my report for the week, including my busy busy WoW week with visions and raids and expeditions and more and more quests :slight_smile: Been a fun week, but I'll be glad when things settle down.

Oh, also related to WoW, today I had some inspiration and wrote the intro scene to the biography of the panda death knight I'm planning to make when Shadowlands releases. I'm in a creative mood recently (I blame medication) and figure this is a good time to work on those biographies some more. So hopefully more of that in the upcoming weeks!
Namarie!

VardaToday at 11:32 PM
Namarie : )

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