Valar Guild

February 23, 2020 Sunday Meeting

5:00 P.M. Eastern time (-4 GMT aka 9 P.M. aka 21:00)

Discord: Valar Guild/meeting_place

Back to News
Transcript work by Varda.
[times are Central Time from Varda's Discord. Add one hour for Eastern.]
["slight smile" is the same as we are used to using as a regular smiley]

Attending (and spoke): (4)
    Discord: Arien, Ar-Pharazon, Eonwe (co-chair), Varda (co-chair)

Before-meeting
Meeting begins
Membership news
Web:
Gaming:
    General reports: Lord of the Rings Online, World of Warcraft, Starcraft II,
Tolkien:
    Topic: Could the One Ring have been carried on a horse or by Bill the Pony, such as in the saddlebags? Or perhaps some other animal such as a dog or goat?
After-meeting:
   Flashgaming Reviews by Ar-Pharazon
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Before-meeting

Eonwe ValarYesterday at 3:00 PM
Heya all.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:00 PM
Aiya!
VardaYesterday at 3:01 PM
Aiya : )
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:01 PM
Arien poked!
VardaYesterday at 3:01 PM
Thanks
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 3:02 PM
We'll begin the meeting shortly.
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VardaYesterday at 3:03 PM
Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!

Membership:
I am still away from home and the computer may go out intermittently.
ArienValarYesterday at 3:04 PM
Aiya all :slight_smile:
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:04 PM
Aiya!
VardaYesterday at 3:04 PM
Fortunately we have Eonwe and Arien to pick up the gavel if it falls on the table. : )
Aiya!
Any other membership news?
ArienValarYesterday at 3:05 PM
not that i know of
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 3:07 PM
None for me.
VardaYesterday at 3:07 PM
ok, comp may be about to go out, will see.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:07 PM
Fladrif sighted, and played against in Hearthstone if that counts :wink:
VardaYesterday at 3:09 PM
Restarted computer, back.
Good to hear Fladrif is out there. : )
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:10 PM
Aiyata
VardaYesterday at 3:10 PM
Hantal
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Web:
We do have a story by Shirebound not quite ready in webwork to go up, but hoping to have it this week. I currently have 7 of 12 chapters, so hoping it will be coming along for you.
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Gaming:
Eonwe, would you like to handle the Gaming section?
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 3:11 PM
Sure.

Lord of the Rings Online:
The Ill Omens skirmish event is going now until March 18th.
Update 25.3.4 came out this week. : https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?678493-Update-25-3-4-Release-Notes

World of Warcraft:
The Hatching of the Hippogryphs is today.
Check out this week's hotfixes. : https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23277654/hotfixes-february-20-2020
    World of Warcraft
    Hotfixes: February 20, 2020 - WoW
    Here you'll find a list of hotfixes that address various issues related to World of Warcraft: Battle For Azeroth.
This week's Bonus Event: Burning Crusade Timewalking.
This week's PvP Brawl: The PvP Brawl: Teeming Islands
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:13 PM
Is it? Pretty sure I did Kotmogu...
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 3:13 PM
Hmm,
I'll double check that then.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:14 PM
It's a bit inconsistent these days. They plan one and change to the other because of bugs.
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 3:14 PM
I think I remember something like that happening this week.
I pre-prepared that news weeks ago from the in-game calendar, so that's likely what happened.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:16 PM
Ah :slight_smile:
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 3:16 PM
Any, I guess I need to correct that
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:17 PM
I would like to do Teeming Islands, it seems fun, but it seems they've got trouble getting the bugs out :wink:
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 3:17 PM
I guess so.
Next week's Bonus Event: Battlegrounds.

Starcraft 2:
Patch 4.11.4 came out this week. :https://starcraft2.com/en-us/news/23312740
    StarCraft II
    StarCraft II Official Game Site
    Wage war across the galaxy with three unique and powerful races. StarCraft II is a real-time strategy game from Blizzard Entertainment for the PC and Mac.

That's it for my gaming news.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:19 PM
Minor WoW mention:

VardaYesterday at 3:19 PM
Thank you, Eonwe.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:20 PM
Preparations for Shadowlands have gone underway. An encrypted build for an alpha has been discovered, and the beta opt-in is starting. Not sure how long until the datamining starts, but the first pieces are moving :slight_smile:
VardaYesterday at 3:21 PM
A bit more on LotRO also:
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:21 PM
https://www.mmo-champion.com/content/9012-World-of-Warcraft-Shadowlands-Beta-Opt-In for one of the links, also mentioning a link to the other.
    World of Warcraft Shadowlands Beta Opt-In - MMO-Champion
    World of Warcraft Shadowlands Beta Opt-In
(done)
VardaYesterday at 3:21 PM
Thanks!

Pardon, a very teensy thing for LotRO:
https://www.lotro.com/en/game/articles/lotro-beacon-issue-149
Lets folks pick up their extra goody for their account, using the code at the bottom.
Any other gaming news? Eve, other?
We know there is more news, so let us know if you come on and would like to share it. : )
Tried to get the LotRO players report, but that will have to wait. A bit. I can go into the game but coming out means I have to restart the computer.
This can be fixed after getting home, but not on the road. : )

Lord of the Rings Online player report:

Landroval:
Eonwe
Erkenbrand
Fangorn
Lenwe
Nar
Varda

Ithil:
Dis
Falco
Fangorn
Varda

Anor:
Fangorn
Varda

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Tolkien!
Does anyone have a Tolkien Moment, link, or topic they would like to share?
If not, here's a question for you all:
Could the One Ring have been carried on a horse or by Bill the Pony, such as in the saddlebags? Or perhaps some other animal such as a dog or goat?
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:27 PM
Interesting. Initially, maybe, unless the Ring was able to get into its mind. Certainly if it didn't know it was carrying it, it might work.
But I also imagine animals would be afraid of it, they tend to be able to sense such evil in fantasy :slight_smile:
VardaYesterday at 3:27 PM
Good point.
At least Bill didn't shy away from letting Frodo on his back, if I remember correctly.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:28 PM
But later on, especially if its actual owner got attached to it... I don't think Frodo would've been too happy letting the Ring out of his sight.
VardaYesterday at 3:28 PM
That's the big rub. A ringbearer even after a brief carry tends to have great difficulty letting go of the Ring.
Suppose Bill started carrying it in a saddlebag as soon as they got Bill?
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:29 PM
At least Bill wouldn't have been able to be persuaded to put it on its hoof... I know the Ring can change size, but by that much?
Yes, it might have worked. But even when not carrying it anymore, Frodo might still have grown attached to it along the way, knowing where it was.
And of course, when they got to Moria it wouldn't have worked anyway. They can't go in without the Ring :slight_smile:
VardaYesterday at 3:31 PM
Interesting. The Ring might have been able to adapt to being on Bill, but Bill would have had difficulty putting it on his fetlock or hoof, etc.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:32 PM
If it corrupted Bill, would Bill have run off with it to find the Nazgul and/or Sauron?

VardaYesterday at 3:32 PM
I wonder if Bill were carrying it, if they could have made it past Caradhras?
Aye, he would have tried.
If it's in his saddlebag, it might not have as much effect as if wearing it. Such as Frodo carrying it in his pocket instead of wearing it, but over time?
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:33 PM
Yep, it's that time thing that's the trouble.
VardaYesterday at 3:34 PM
Still, if an animal could carry the ring in a bag of some sort, they could have swapped it between several animals?
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:34 PM
What if they brought 5 ponies and rotated it a bit? :slight_smile:
Hah, same idea.
VardaYesterday at 3:34 PM
There you go. : )
ArienValarYesterday at 3:34 PM
Bill might have bolted and ru n to the mounts of the Black Riders or in the worst case to Frodo ?
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:35 PM
For that matter, why not switch it between several hobbits?
ArienValarYesterday at 3:35 PM
err to Mordor ?
VardaYesterday at 3:35 PM
The problem with several hobbits was seen with Sam and Frodo.
Even a short time caused some difficulty even for Sam.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:35 PM
Yeah, but that was only when Frodo had gotten really attached to it already :slight_smile:
VardaYesterday at 3:36 PM
Sam was already starting to attach. That wasn't very long.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:36 PM
But Sam was also the most resistant to its whispers, as it failed to give him a vision of what he wanted.
Maybe Sam would've been the better carrier!
VardaYesterday at 3:37 PM
It tried to give him the world as his garden but he wanted no more than he could enjoy putting his own hands in.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:38 PM
Indeed. A mindset the Ring could not understand.
VardaYesterday at 3:38 PM
It may have worked past that problem in time, such as giving Sam the chance to garden anywhere.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:38 PM
True.
VardaYesterday at 3:39 PM
But in an animal's saddlebag, swapping the bag between animals?
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:39 PM
A lot of animals to take with you.
VardaYesterday at 3:39 PM
hehe
Use it for lunch after a certain time? Herd of goats?
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:40 PM
Also, if an animal got attached to the Ring, and it got moved to a different animal, would the first animal be inclined to attack to take it back?
VardaYesterday at 3:41 PM
Fight!
Thus, lunch.
Run out of animals after a while, though.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:41 PM
Depends on how long the journey takes.
Maybe restock at Edoras, pick up a few horses :wink:
VardaYesterday at 3:42 PM
heh
Maybe more goats. Wagon load of rabbits.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:42 PM
Might be interesting on their crosscountry trip.
VardaYesterday at 3:42 PM
Logistics may become difficult.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:42 PM
How would you give a Ring to a rabbit?
Small pouch around its neck?
VardaYesterday at 3:43 PM
Nose ring?
Ring in it's ear?
The big thing against the idea is JRRT didn't use it. He had it all carefully thought out.
We are already seeing some problems when we try to pull it off.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:44 PM
Doesn't stop us speculating what would happen.
And yes. A cartload of rabbits being driven over Caradhras might cause some problems.
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 3:45 PM
Well, I would keep in mind that the Ring doesn't have to be in someone's possession to begin its work on them.
VardaYesterday at 3:46 PM
Agreed, Eonwe. Just the sight of it, knowing it's right there...
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 3:46 PM
Perhaps Ironically, the most dangerous part of keeping it might also be the safest part: Those around the bearer who might be tempted to check on it every few minutes would know that someone is actually watching over it.
VardaYesterday at 3:46 PM
"Kill the wabbit" takes on a whole new meeting.
Good point. Many eyes.
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 3:47 PM
Even those tempted to be concerned for a legitimately good purpose, not just those already desiring it.
VardaYesterday at 3:47 PM
Again, the problem of provoking a fight. A designated Ringbearer means someone else has no legitimate excuse.
True, like taking pity on the one bearing it.
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 3:48 PM
If an animal were bearing it there would be the temptation every stop to make sure it wasn't dropped or something, and those less trustworthy could arrange for it to be "lost".
Even Aragorn would want to make sure it was still there.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:49 PM
So a saddlebag wouldn't work. It would need to be easily visible.
Chain around Bill's neck.
VardaYesterday at 3:49 PM
O look. How did that hole in the saddlebag happen? Looks like a knife slit.
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 3:50 PM
And yet it couldn't be because the point is that the Enemy isn't supposed to know they're carrying a ring.
VardaYesterday at 3:50 PM
Can't be visible unless hidden in plain sight, like a ring on the bridle. But everyone seeing it would have an urge to grab that bridle.
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 3:50 PM
So a person, influenced by the Ring to "keep it secret, keep it safe" is the best candidate for the safety of the Ring and for those around the Ring.
VardaYesterday at 3:51 PM
Well said!
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:52 PM
Poor person.
VardaYesterday at 3:52 PM
So we figure we should find the best Hobbit we can with no desire for power, who has everything he wants, and would be losing his happy life if he takes it.
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 3:52 PM
Aye, which is also why the person had to be a volunteer.
VardaYesterday at 3:52 PM
And had to be holding the Ring legitimately, and with all those around him/her/it in agreement.
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 3:53 PM
Someone who had been directed "You must carry this Ring" might be tempted to bitterness after the Ring began to wear on them.
VardaYesterday at 3:54 PM
You made me do it!
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 3:54 PM
A volunteer may also be tempted to bitterness, but would also be able to strengthen themselves with the knowledge that they took this task upon themselves, and the reasons they did so.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:55 PM
So in order for, say, Sam to be an appropriate carrier, he would've had to volunteer earlier, like in Rivendell, before Frodo did.
VardaYesterday at 3:56 PM
Sam was probably a good back-up carrier in case Shelob really did kill Frodo, but not the number one choice.
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 3:56 PM
Sam volunteered to take up the Ring when Frodo was no longer able to do so.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:56 PM
At which point Frodo was already too attached. Bad timing.
VardaYesterday at 3:57 PM
He had too much to gain, where Frodo did not. In time, the Ring might have found its way in.
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 3:58 PM
I don't know, I think Sam's "plain Hobbit sense" would've made him able to carry the Ring, but other qualities might have made him less safe.
VardaYesterday at 3:59 PM
Aye. Sam was the only one who could be the back-up carrier in the whole world.
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 3:59 PM
The way through Sam probably would've been through the desire to protect Frodo.
VardaYesterday at 3:59 PM
"share the load". Frodo knew the danger of that
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 3:59 PM
Which means the only one who might've been able to get the Ring back from Sam, would be frodo.
Strange how fate conspires :slight_smile:
VardaYesterday at 4:00 PM
true
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 4:00 PM
Until Sam reached the point where the Ring convinced him keeping the Ring was the way to protect Frodo.
VardaYesterday at 4:01 PM
"He just can't handle it anymore."
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 4:01 PM
Which might've taken standing at the Crack of Doom, same place Frodo broke.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 4:01 PM
There's that, but he might've seen the harm it would do to Frodo if he did not give him the Ring.
VardaYesterday at 4:02 PM
It was written that no Ringbearer could have actually thrown the Ring in to destruction. They needed the team to help.
And that's another interesting take, Phar. : )
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 4:03 PM
Would that've meant taking the Ring from its bearer in force once the time came?
Would Sam have been able to if Gollum had not interfered?
VardaYesterday at 4:03 PM
That's what Gollum did.
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 4:04 PM
If Frodo were capable of "sharing the load" I think that might've indicated the Ring didn't have him quite as much as we know it did.
VardaYesterday at 4:04 PM
Sam was not able.
Aye
Sharing the load could mean there were two people who couldn't chuck it into the lava.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 4:05 PM
So the quest would have been doomed either way if not for Gollum or anyone else coming with them.
VardaYesterday at 4:05 PM
Sam also had the problem that he could not bring himself to force the Ring from his master/friend.
Right.
They had nine people to start.
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 4:05 PM
Or we could've ended up with a Sam/Frodo fight where both teetered off the edge into the lava.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 4:06 PM
Do note that it was not actually Gollum's plan to get the Ring into a fire. Would anyone have been able to take the Ring from Frodo and throw it into the fire before it got to them?
Yes. The bearer going into the fire might have been inevitable.
VardaYesterday at 4:07 PM
Or at least his finger. : )
Maybe cut the chain around his neck and let it drop?
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 4:07 PM
Well, the bearer who did go into the fire was Gollum, so it still counts :slight_smile:
And yes, that works.
Dangling Frodo over the cliff's edge and cutting the chain loose.
VardaYesterday at 4:08 PM
Who would have been the best one to cut the chain?
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 4:08 PM
Ah, how does one cut a chain dangling from one's neck? Would take a good, precise weapon.
I don't think Gimli's axe would've done it.
VardaYesterday at 4:09 PM
Bolt cutter. : )
Depends on the chain. Did it have a fastener they could undo?
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 4:09 PM
I don't suppose Sam had some garden shears with him.
VardaYesterday at 4:09 PM
Long enough to go over his neck and pull?
May-be.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 4:10 PM
Getting it over his neck without actually grasping the chain in your hand, then.
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 4:10 PM
If he did, they probably went into a ravine with his pots and pans.
VardaYesterday at 4:10 PM
If they knew the problem was coming, they should have had something for it.
Agreed, Eonwe.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 4:10 PM
Maybe hold Frodo upside down until the chain slips off, and then kick it over the edge.
VardaYesterday at 4:10 PM
If they had all nine of the Walkers, they might have managed. I'll go with a fastener or long chain.
There you go!
Reason to put the chain on the short guy!
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 4:11 PM
Hah, yes.
But would've meant a taller person should've gone with them.
Aragorn, Gandalf, Legolas, even Faramir was a good option.
VardaYesterday at 4:12 PM
Aye
So did we decide an animal was not a desirable choice?
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 4:14 PM
Unless it was easy to keep an eye on it without letting any enemy spies know.
VardaYesterday at 4:14 PM
A number of the enemy could feel the presence of the Ring.
Were even drawn to it. One reason to keep moving.
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 4:15 PM
I would add to that the chances of an animal bolting and taking the Ring with them.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 4:15 PM
One reason why you might not want to paint a big target on Bill's back by slipping him the Ring.
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 4:15 PM
Tom Bombadil would be a safer guardian because at least then you could narrow down where he lost it.
VardaYesterday at 4:16 PM
heh
Maybe. Somewhere out there in the sandy loam between some trees somewhere or maybe in the river....
So we pretty much agree Frodo is the one for the job. : )
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 4:17 PM
Probably. Still not discounting the other Hobbits. But probably.
By virtue of being the heir to the previous owner, certainly.
VardaYesterday at 4:18 PM
Gandalf said Frodo was the best of the hobbits. Also, he could inherit the Ring legitimately, very important. Not stolen, for instance.
He had a good claim.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 4:18 PM
If you inherit a stolen property, does it count as legitimate?
VardaYesterday at 4:19 PM
Frodo did offer it to Aragorn, thinking he was the rightful owner, but Aragorn wanted Frodo to hang onto it.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 4:20 PM
Ah, so he had the owner's permission :slight_smile:
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 4:20 PM
Isildur had legitimate claim I suppose, as weregild for the deaths of his father and brother. He was killed. Deagol found it, probably legitimate enough claim, but Smeagol did not, period. Bilbo is questionable.
VardaYesterday at 4:21 PM
Aye. But Frodo did not steal it or kill for it.
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 4:21 PM
Aye.
VardaYesterday at 4:21 PM
And there are fortunes built on pirate treasure. It does not make the inheritor evil.
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 4:22 PM
True.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 4:22 PM
Evil, no. But the legitimate owner?
VardaYesterday at 4:22 PM
If Aragorn was the legitimate owner and told Frodo to hold onto it, then all is well?
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 4:22 PM
That's the best reason, yes :slight_smile:
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 4:22 PM
Bilbo certainly could not have guessed the Ring was Gollum's when he found it, and when Gollum was trying to kill him I don't think he was under any obligation to say "Here, I found your magic Ring so you can turn invisible and eat me."
VardaYesterday at 4:24 PM
Have to agree there, Eonwe.
And was Gollum really a legitimate owner? Steal from a thief?
Sauron was the legitimate owner.
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 4:24 PM
And again, aye.
VardaYesterday at 4:24 PM
Frodo could have given it back easily enough.
Just say hi.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 4:25 PM
Well, as muddy as everyone's claims were, I suppose the whole thing got a lot clearer with Aragorn's permission.
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 4:26 PM
I would say that if Frodo inheriting it wasn't legitimate enough, Aragorn telling him to hold onto it for now was.
Aragorn knew what they were going to try. He wasn't out to be keeping it anyway.
In some ways, our discussion is a microcosm of the War of the Ring: Sauron's legitimate claim to the Ring, and the Free Peoples telling him "Nope, not gonna give it to you".
VardaYesterday at 4:27 PM
True.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 4:28 PM
hehe
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 4:29 PM
If someone is coming at you with a weapon, and you get it from them, I don't think you're under any obligation to then endanger yourself by handing it right back to them.
VardaYesterday at 4:29 PM
We are past the hour by nearly half, but it sounds as if we answered the question. Let's not give the Ring to Sauron, and not have an animal carry it. : )
That's a good description, Eonwe.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 4:30 PM
Well, you could maybe hand it back later when they're no longer a threat...
VardaYesterday at 4:30 PM

the hammer bounces to the hammerpad
bathonky!
the gavel bounces from the trampoline center back to the shelf
top

After-meeting!
Free discussion, chat, etc. : )
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 4:31 PM
On a smaller scale, you can put some space between you and leave it sitting, then get out of there and let them fetch their weapon when you're safely away. The Ring is a bit bigger of a scale than that though.
VardaYesterday at 4:31 PM
Sooo you want to give the Ring to Sauron after he became a powerless wraith and restrengthen him. Let's not?
I'm happy to split the power away from Sauron. He misuses it.
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 4:32 PM
Sauron was on a different scale than the average villain.
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 4:32 PM
Ah, but still his property. So now we get to the point where we question how far legitimacy counts :slight_smile:
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 4:33 PM
Sauron was using his property to deprive other people of their Eru-given rights :}
VardaYesterday at 4:34 PM
That would be accurate.
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 4:34 PM
When Melkor tries to claim all of Arda as his own, Manwë tells him "there are others who have laboured here no less than you." Indicating a recognition of the rights of an individual to the fruits of their labour.
When Fëanor is asked to give up his silmarilli, his greatest creation, for the potential (not even guaranteed) revival of the Two Trees, Aulë tells Tulkas "you ask a greater thing than thou knowest." Even then the Valar did not force Fëanor to surrender them.
Yavanna had made the light of the Two Trees freely available to all, and Fëanor made use of that, but the silmarilli were acknowledged as his subcreation because it was an act of his creative skill that brought the simarilli into being.
And lest we not go far back enough: The Ainulindallë :}
The Ainur were given complete freedom to put whatever they wanted into the Song. It didn't become a problem until Melkor decided that his contribution should be the only contribution, and started causing discord with the other Ainur singing around him, and then drowning out anyone who was not singing in accordance with his song.
VardaYesterday at 4:44 PM
That's the main point. Melkor alone would have the opportunity to be heard.
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 4:45 PM
That's when the Second theme was brought into the song, with Manwë at its lead, to combat Melkor's attempted coup of the Music.
And then the Third Theme, created by Eru alone.
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 4:54 PM
If Melkor had been content to make his contribution and let others make theirs, there wouldn't have been an issue. If Sauron had been content to have his realm in Mordor and let the other peoples rule themselves as they saw fit, he would've been fine. But that's the problem with Evil, in that it's not content to let other people do their own thing. :}
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 4:54 PM
Can't let other people become as powerful as yourself :slight_smile:
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 4:56 PM
Yeah, people might decide that pesky freedom thing actually works :}
ArienValarYesterday at 4:57 PM
Bedtime for me :slight_smile:
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 4:57 PM
It's actually time for me to head out as well :}
ArienValarYesterday at 4:57 PM
Namarie , Valarites :slight_smile:
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 4:57 PM
Sleep well Arien :}
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 4:57 PM
Namarie!
ArienValarYesterday at 4:58 PM
you work well Eonwe and the rest of you have a fun day or night :slight_smile:
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 4:58 PM
And I'm just checking out a new puzzle game which will be linked in my gaming report :wink:
ArienValarYesterday at 4:58 PM
cool :slight_smile:
waves
Eonwe ValarYesterday at 4:58 PM
Thanks :}
Take care all, good night, sleep well, and have fun :}
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 4:59 PM
Namarie!
VardaYesterday at 4:59 PM
Namarie : )
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Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 5:02 PM
Personal gaming report!
We start with 3 flashgames.
https://www.kongregate.com/games/light_bringer777/learn-to-fly is an oldy but a goody. An upgrade/launch game where you play a penguin who wants to learn to fly, using rockets and launchers.
    Kongregate
    Learn to Fly
    Grab your rockets and glider to show the world a penguin can fly !
Get as far as you can, earn money, upgrade your equipment, and go even further!
Also achievements to get for certain thresholds of distance, speed etc, with additional cash.
First in a popular series, each one with more new stuff than the last, so if you like the idea, check it out!

https://www.kongregate.com/games/Jezzamon/adventure-boy-cheapskate is the second game, and the only badge of the day I didn't have yet this week. An adventure/puzzle game where you have to find who stole your bike. Many people, much dialogue with humor! And quite relaxed.
    Kongregate
    Adventure Boy Cheapskate
    Explore the seaside town of Estivale, meet dozens of fleshed out characters and track down the cruel thief who stole your bike!
    Pure swap-quest adventuring, w...

Namarie!
VardaYesterday at 5:11 PM
Namarie for now. : )
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 5:11 PM
Oh, that was to Varda who said Namarie in person :wink:
VardaYesterday at 5:11 PM
./wave

Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 5:16 PM
https://www.kongregate.com/games/algumacoisaqq/unproportional for the third game! A jigsaw puzzle game, but pretty difficult, because the pieces change scale depending on the slot you put them in. Swap em around to see the whole picture, which is harder than it sounds :slight_smile:
    Kongregate
    Unproportional
    A puzzle game inspired on the classic Not To Scale
    Credits also to quotpexelsquot:www.pexels.com, as a great source of quality free to use photos.
Good starting advice is to find 2 pieces that seem to fit, and then find the slots that make the proportions go right.
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Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 5:42 PM
Blizzard gaming!
Heroes of the Storm:
Still 389, no new levels. Did get an opportunity to choose my newest hero Auriel as the only healer in one of the 3 brawls for the week, and did rather well keeping my team alive :slight_smile: True trial by fire, and I consider it a success! And people always like to be healed, so that was nice too :slight_smile:
Hearthstone:
Other than facing off against Fladrif for a friend-quest, not much new. Got to rank 18, which is pretty good for me, but I'm sure I'll drop back to 20 soon enough.
Brawl is interesting; choose a class, get a random deck, every minion you play summons a 1/1 stat clone of that minion. If I recall, I decided to go with a shaman deck and hoping for murlocs, which worked pretty well.
If you go for lowcost minions in the first place, not much to lose in the clone, and they tend to synergize well.
WoW Classic: A couple more levels for the mage! Got him to 7 now, leaving the starting area of Deathknell, and finding myself in Brill with tons of quests and questgivers. Bit of overwhelming content, but I've got maps and lists of quests lined up, so I won't miss anything :wink:
Also started his professions, hopefully his tailoring allows him to take care of himself when it comes to gear and finance, since there's always cloth to be found on mobs if you know where to look.
WoW:
More raiding progress! Got Xanesh down on heroic, poked Hivemind a bit with not much success, and moved to Shad'har instead, which we did get down. So at least 2 new bosses!
And from the earlier 3 bosses we re-killed on heroic, I got a weapon called An'zig Vra, which is basically my BiS tanking weapon. :Since it's heroic quality and even got an extra socket, I don't think I'll be replacing it this expansion. Still waiting for the aoe-weapon for trash situations, though :slight_smile:
Necklace to 79, one more level to go until the maximum buff from it; you can go further indefinitely but it only gives an ilevel upgrade. I'll be happy with 80, and see what other levels I pick up without trying.
Cloak to rank 11! Last rank to be gotten with the medium areas from Horrific Visions, from next week it'll be the hardest areas. But the sanity protection is pretty good now, and rank 12 will give a passive buff as well, so it's worth getting.
Also got a pet from horrific visions, a void-scarred rat, one of many void-scarred pet varities from different sources. Gotta catch em all!
Love is in the Air event is over, still no mount for me. More luck next year hopefully!
Weekly is timewalks, which is a good place to try out the new weapon, as well as the aoe-setup with last week's boots. Swap macro works great, with the aoe for trash and quickly going for the single-target setup for bosses. Makes even timewalks go really smooth.
Other WoW projects continuing :slight_smile: Completed the Bumbles achievement by feeding him for 7 days, which gave Bumbles himself as bee-pet.
Also continued cooking and fishing, getting both to 150, which was what I was going for. 175 will come later. In the process I also caught a rare fish in the horde capital of Dazar'alor, for an alliance achievement. Was tricky getting there, but luckily I could stealth, and the fish didn't take too long to get.
Next few objectives will be battle pet-related, possibly getting to 1000 pets in the process, and after that I should finally be able to move on to 8.1 content :wink:
And that's it for WoW... for my other games' project I guess I can add that I technically beat Creeper World 3, but the last level only through the fastest (and probably toughest) way, requiring tight energy control and timing to get the rarest ending, which I'd never managed before. But I'll be going back to it to play it rather more normally and see the other 2 endings again. After that there's also a credits level and hundreds of custom maps in several "sectors", of which I'll probably only try a few before moving on. There's a bunch of levels that are nearly impossible to get anyway, and my main goal will be complete when I finish the other 2 campaign endings.
And that's my report for the week!
Ar-Pharazon-VYesterday at 6:26 PM
namarie!

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