Valar Guild

April 26, 2020 Sunday Meeting

5:00 P.M. Eastern Daylight Savings Time
Discord: Valar Guild/meeting_place

Back to News
Transcript work by Varda.
[times are Central Time from Varda's Discord. Add one hour for Eastern.]
["slight smile" is the same as we are used to using as a regular smiley]

Attending (and spoke): (8)
    Discord: Arien, Ar-Pharazon, Elrond, Eonwe, Fangorn/Treebeard,  Ioreth (After-meeting), Irmo/Irm, Varda (presiding)

Before-meeting
Meeting begins
Membership news
Web:
    Tolkien Site / Articles:
        New article: "Gundabad" by Irmo-(Valar).
Gaming:
    General reports: World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online
Tolkien:
    Topic: The beginning of the Dwarves
After-meeting:
    Flashgaming Reviews by Ar-Pharazon.

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Before-meeting
Eonwe Valar04/23/2020
Heya all. Based on our Tolkien discussion this week, I got to reading this for fun: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord
    Lord
    Lord is an appellation for a person or deity who has authority, control, or power over others, acting like a master, a chief, or a ruler.
    The appellation can also denote certain persons who hold a title of the peerage in the United Kingdom, or are entitled to courtesy titles. ...
Enjoy :}

VardaToday at 4:00 PM
Aiya :slight_smile:
ElrondToday at 4:00 PM
Aiya
VardaToday at 4:00 PM
brb and thanks Eonwe : )
Hi Elrond!
TreebeardToday at 4:01 PM
Hello and well met  :slight_smile:
IrmToday at 4:02 PM
Greetings folks
TreebeardToday at 4:03 PM
Are "courtesy titles" a modern age contrivance
Hi ya Irmo
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:04 PM
Aiya all!
TreebeardToday at 4:04 PM
Hi
ArienValarToday at 4:05 PM
Aiya all :slight_smile:
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:06 PM
Aiya! Just got into WoW but I don't need to poke you :wink:
TreebeardToday at 4:06 PM
Hello
ArienValarToday at 4:06 PM
not quite :slight_smile:
VardaToday at 4:06 PM
So many wonderful people! Aiya : )
Courtesy titles like king and knight may have been around a while. Boss Ug maybe longer?
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Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!

Membership:
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:07 PM
Need something to identify the hobnobs!
VardaToday at 4:08 PM
Great to see folks here coming in on their own! yay!
Hobnangians, heh.
Knock your chicken over the net with a stick!
Who all is here? Please type Manwe
Manwe
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:10 PM
Manwe
IrmToday at 4:10 PM
Manwe with typo
VardaToday at 4:10 PM
lol
He was fun. : )
And so many Words of Wisdom (from songs, so appropriate).
ArienValarToday at 4:11 PM
Manwe :slight_smile:
IrmToday at 4:11 PM
I had the privilege to do some Diablo runs with him
VardaToday at 4:11 PM
Same : )
First met him, he was Sauron, and I thought my ears were about to be removed. : )
He was very nice and we had a lot of fun games.
IrmToday at 4:12 PM
:yum:
VardaToday at 4:12 PM
On to
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Web:
We have a new article
from some Irmo guy, er
from the esteemed Irmo-(Valar)
Very timely for our LotRO players especially, so thank you!
IrmToday at 4:13 PM
:man_running:
VardaToday at 4:13 PM
"Gundabad"
http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/articles/g/Gundabad-I.htm
    Gundabad
    article on Gundabad of Tolkien's Middle-earth
ArienValarToday at 4:14 PM
sounds interesting Orc fortress beyond the Ettenmoors or in the Ettenmoors is it?
VardaToday at 4:14 PM
Maybe we should use a screenshot of Gundabad for an illustration
IrmToday at 4:14 PM
way beyond
VardaToday at 4:14 PM
Yes, it is, but well north.
Where the Blue Mountains and Grey Mountains meet.
Plan to discuss it a lot more in the Tolkien chat. : )
For now,
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Gaming!
ArienValarToday at 4:15 PM
:slight_smile:
VardaToday at 4:15 PM
World of Warcraft:
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:15 PM
looks up map
VardaToday at 4:15 PM
Good idea, Arien.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:16 PM
you mean Misty and Grey Mountains?
VardaToday at 4:16 PM
This week's Bonus Event: Battle for Azeroth Dungeons.
Check out all the stuff you can get in Horrific Visions in the blog: Visions of N’Zoth: Mounts, Pets, and More.
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23405210/visions-of-n-zoth-mounts-pets-and-more
    World of Warcraft
    Visions of N’Zoth: Mounts, Pets, and More - WoW
    Visions of N’Zoth introduced a variety of new pets, mounts, and items ripe for collectors to hunt down among the twisted visions woven by the old god. We’ve highlighted some of them to point you in the right direction.
There's a new Shadowlands preview out: Shadowlands Preview: Revendreth and the Venthyr Covenant.
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23391567/shadowlands-preview-revendreth-and-the-venthyr-covenant
    World of Warcraft
    Shadowlands Preview: Revendreth and the Venthyr Covenant - WoW
    As you explore four otherworldly zones—Bastion, Maldraxxus, Ardenweald, and Revendreth—you will meet the Covenants that rule the afterlife realms in the Shadowlands.
    Your final destination in the narrative arc is the shadowy realm of Revendreth.
Check out this week's hotfixes.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:18 PM
Still on the edge of my chair for when they do the Ardenweald preview...
VardaToday at 4:18 PM
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23277654/hotfixes-april-22-2020
    World of Warcraft
    Hotfixes: April 22, 2020 - WoW
    Here you'll find a list of hotfixes that address various issues related to World of Warcraft: Battle For Azeroth.
:slight_smile:

Lord of the Rings Online:
Update 26 came out this week.
https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?679653-Update-26-Release-Notes
This includes the Anniversary festivities for LotRO
13th. : )
This was a gigantic update.
The Devs seemed to try to cram everything into it, heh.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:21 PM
I hope they did it well :slight_smile:
VardaToday at 4:21 PM
Hotfixes, the Anniversary, new area and a lot more.
Repaired a glitch in the engine to cut back on lag and crashes.
They did. : )
IrmToday at 4:22 PM
Which really helped, I must admit
VardaToday at 4:22 PM
The person I was gaming with and crashed a lot after the fix turned out to have dust in the computer. Blew it out and it was fine. We all did much better!
If they did nothing else but fix that lag, it would have been great news. : )
But they did a great deal more and it's been a lot of fun.
IrmToday at 4:23 PM
^Yep
VardaToday at 4:23 PM
Anything you'd like to add to that, Irmo?
IrmToday at 4:24 PM
Not really, very happy with how smooth they made things, and since I have a new comp it is really good
VardaToday at 4:24 PM
That makes a lot of difference too! Grats on the new computer!
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:24 PM
Grats!
IrmToday at 4:24 PM
Thanks,!
So since we came back I love everythingwe do, except (still) the warhorse which makes me dizzy :stuck_out_tongue:
VardaToday at 4:26 PM
Oops. Might try using a pulled back view for that?
IrmToday at 4:26 PM
Nah I a just too clumsy for that thing
VardaToday at 4:26 PM
heh
Tried using the auto-slowdown setting?
and tons of agility on it.
ArienValarToday at 4:26 PM
oh wow so I am not the only one with that experience :smile:
IrmToday at 4:27 PM
Aye Varda, but them Miriel and Hurin are even more faster than me <grin>
VardaToday at 4:27 PM
It's like driving a heavy duty car.
ArienValarToday at 4:27 PM
I thought i was silly to get dizzy when staying on too long
IrmToday at 4:27 PM
then
VardaToday at 4:27 PM
Maybe you need to use a Light Horse?
Others have trouble with the dizziness too. I pull way out for the view.
ElrondToday at 4:28 PM
I have some with ones that have dark rooms/confusing tunnels. Makes me feel carsick.
VardaToday at 4:28 PM
I run a Medium horse unless everyone is galloping past me. Have two set up
ugh
The Light horse is fast.
TreebeardToday at 4:28 PM
I watch the mini-map for riding ques and hitting timings, I don't get dizzy because I'm missing most of the action, I suppose.
VardaToday at 4:29 PM
That's  a good thought, thanks.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:29 PM
medium horse...
is that were medium rare steaks are from?
VardaToday at 4:29 PM
If you're a warg, yes.
IrmToday at 4:30 PM
Miriel and Hurin are very considerate, we mostly use normal horses, and when we meet wargriders they do the warhorsing, and I cheer them on
VardaToday at 4:30 PM
We have a range of horses with their own special stats and even cosmetics. : P)
TreebeardToday at 4:30 PM
I'm not sure, but I think you can get medium rare horse steaks in Roswell, New Mexico .... don't think I'd like to try any
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:30 PM
Ah. WoW has a ton of mounts with unique cosmetics but all the "stats" are the same :wink:
VardaToday at 4:31 PM
We fight from the mounts in certain areas and they are very fast.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:31 PM
Ah yeah... they kinda kept that to some places in Northrend in WoW and then gave up on it. That was sad.
VardaToday at 4:31 PM
But using Insert can change the speed. Walk, Canter, Gallop that sort of thing.
Walk is helpful in town, heh.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:32 PM
Blink and you missed it.
VardaToday at 4:32 PM
What town?
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:32 PM
You're through Bree sooner than you can say Bree.
VardaToday at 4:32 PM
But the heavy horse has Trample. : )
IrmToday at 4:33 PM
My fingers are not fast enough, unlike Varda and Treebeard I never quite bridged the generation gap on keyboard handling :slight_smile:
ElrondToday at 4:33 PM
Bartertown maybe lol
VardaToday at 4:33 PM
Aww
There are ways around : )
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:33 PM
Not sure if it's about generation gap, I learned typing from a school course, as did my mom :smile:
VardaToday at 4:34 PM
I learned at home on an old typewriter, then later in a school course. Lot of practice helps.
ElrondToday at 4:35 PM
I had typing in school, still was using old typewriters. But I'd been working on early computers so kinda had my own way of doing it.
VardaToday at 4:35 PM
I try to pull back a bit seeing the Somename is typing.... at the bottom of Discord. But please feel free to type anyway. Can't break in badly here. : )
We didn't see computers for people use until college. Not allowed to touch. : )
IrmToday at 4:36 PM
I typed my masters thesis on a mechanic (bachelite sp?) Remington, you had to hammer it to get letters on the paper:)
VardaToday at 4:37 PM
And you did it! You did a Master's thesis. /bow
IrmToday at 4:37 PM
:flushed:
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:38 PM
sigh stranded in my bachelor's for years until I decided I couldn't handle the paperwork of academics if it was all going to be like that
IrmToday at 4:38 PM
My PHD I could use a real computer for, a 20 Meg Olivetti !
VardaToday at 4:38 PM
Our professor showed us a personal computer in college in his office, but warned us all that we would not be puttting so much as a fingerprint on it!
IrmToday at 4:38 PM
That was 1989
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:39 PM
...thanks for making me feel young :smile:
ElrondToday at 4:39 PM
That was year I graduated high school.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:39 PM
That must've been around the time I started elementary school :wink:
VardaToday at 4:40 PM
: )
TreebeardToday at 4:40 PM
I feel older than Varda, but she looks much better
VardaToday at 4:40 PM
You are 6 months older. : )
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:40 PM
Words well chosen I'm sure :slight_smile:
VardaToday at 4:41 PM
He's a sweetie. : )
Maybe we should move on to Tolkien, heh.
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Tolkien!
By now you've all read Irmo's article, right? ; )
http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/articles/g/Gundabad-I.htm
Gundabad
    article on Gundabad of Tolkien's Middle-earth
There you go.
IrmToday at 4:42 PM
It is very short, dont worry :slight_smile:
VardaToday at 4:42 PM
Meanwhile I'll add what I forgot under gaming:
LotRO gamers seen in kin this past week:

Landroval:
Celebrian
Dis
Eonwe
Falco
Fangorn
Hurin
Irmo
Miriel
Nar
Nimrodel
Varda

Ithil:
Dis
Falco
Fangorn
Varda

Anor:
Arien
Fangorn
Varda
Annnnnd back to Tolkien. ; )
Irmo's article reminds us of the beginning of the Dwarves, something we don't talk about a lot past the time of Aule.
As a reminder,
Why do Dwarves revere Aule, whom they name Mahal?
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:43 PM
father figure :slight_smile:
VardaToday at 4:43 PM
(Please forgive my frequent lack of diacriticals.)
IrmToday at 4:43 PM
Well, Aule created the dwarves
VardaToday at 4:44 PM
Good reason.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:44 PM
Their interests were also made in his image... they loved their crafts :slight_smile:
VardaToday at 4:44 PM
True
IrmToday at 4:44 PM
He was too early with that, and then pouted that he had to wait
VardaToday at 4:45 PM
hahaha - yep
Aule became impatient for Eru's promised new siblings for the Ainur, who would be the Elves and Man. So he built some, using what he knew of the plan so they were humanoid.
Being Aule, he made them strong and able to aid with his forge and interest in crafts, like Phar just said.
But they had no life as that could only come from its source of Eru, so all that he could make were a kind of robot that only moved when he put his attention on it.
Eru saw what Aule had made, and Aule felt guilt, that he had appeared to be usurping what Eru intended in his eagerness and tried to correct his wrongdoing, intending to smash his creation with his hammer.
But Eru had him stay his hand, and look at them again.
They were cowering in fear of the hammer, something a robot would not do.
Irm, go ahead. : )
IrmToday at 4:47 PM
Always greedy for shinies, these followers of Aule (All dwarves, Saruman too, and many Noldor)
VardaToday at 4:47 PM
Too right!
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:47 PM
Sauron made his own shinies.
IrmToday at 4:47 PM
That as a sideremark
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:48 PM
Also like the Noldor and dwarves...
VardaToday at 4:48 PM
Tangents are Us. : )
Aule was never greedy, yet a lot of his people were.
IrmToday at 4:48 PM
Well Eru promised he would give his creationreal life, but only after his first children were born
VardaToday at 4:48 PM
Aye.
Eru had blessed Aule's dwarves with life, for Aule meant no harm, only overeagerness and desiring for Eru's plan to complete, and was willing to remove them to aid the plan.
Thus, Eru adopted them. Aule gave language to the dwarves.
I ran across the bit about the language while looking up the nifty stuff in Irmo's article.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:49 PM
And thus they were stuck in underground caves for many an age. Sounds familiar...
VardaToday at 4:49 PM
hehe
But the dwarves were not intended to be the first or second born children of Arda, so they had to be put to sleep until after the others had awakened.
Were the Dwarves the first built of the children?
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:51 PM
Unless you count the vision in the Song...
IrmToday at 4:51 PM
Language: It is built around consonants, like KZD, GND, BRD, the vowels are always changing
Ern nope, the ents
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:52 PM
I think the ents were made in reaction to the dwarves.
VardaToday at 4:52 PM
Ents were not considered part of the "children of Eru".
TreebeardToday at 4:52 PM
They existed as constructs of Aule, adopted and given life in the vision of Eru.... after the others were.
VardaToday at 4:52 PM
They were more like the children of Yavanna.
IrmToday at 4:53 PM
ah yes
but you did not specify chilren :stuck_out_tongue:
VardaToday at 4:53 PM
Were the Dwarves the first built of the children?
IrmToday at 4:54 PM
On earth or in song? (being picky now)
Eonwe ValarToday at 4:54 PM
Heya all.
VardaToday at 4:54 PM
Eonwe, aiya!
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:54 PM
Aiya!
TreebeardToday at 4:54 PM
Hello
IrmToday at 4:55 PM
Greetings old friend
Eonwe ValarToday at 4:55 PM
Sorry, internet issues kept me from making it here sooner.
VardaToday at 4:55 PM
The Dwarves were the first to awake, if only briefly.

Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:55 PM
Hope it's okay now!
VardaToday at 4:55 PM
Hey, tickled you could come at all!
Eonwe ValarToday at 4:55 PM
Good to see you again, Irmo :}
IrmToday at 4:56 PM
For the ones that dont know: Eonwe and I met 21 years ago when he became Aragorn and I became Felagund :slight_smile:
VardaToday at 4:56 PM
Wow, has it been that long? Time flies when you're having so much fun.
Eonwe ValarToday at 4:57 PM
:}
VardaToday at 4:57 PM
(I was Faramir, before we did the gender thing and I was still hiding it in Diablo.)
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:58 PM
girl gamers? psh :wink:
VardaToday at 4:58 PM
We got a lot of... remarks. Besides the warrior only came in male and a girl name was out of place. : )

Were the Dwarves the first built of the children? They were the first to awake, if only briefly.
Eonwe ValarToday at 4:59 PM
The simple answer is we don't know. Eru could've already had his made and safely stashed waiting for him to "flip a switch".
VardaToday at 4:59 PM
Agreed, Eonwe. It seemed to be so.
However, one reason the Valar did not fight Morgoth on Arda was that they did not know where the sleeping first and secondborn were and feared harming or destroying them.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:59 PM
It's Eru. He could've made them later on so that they'd always been there :wink:
VardaToday at 4:59 PM
heh
Eonwe ValarToday at 4:59 PM
That's more of a Melkor thing, hehe.
VardaToday at 4:59 PM
They came awake at their intended time (alarm clock going off).
IrmToday at 5:00 PM
Welll, since Eru called the elves his FIRST children, I guess the dwarves can not claim first build
VardaToday at 5:00 PM
Good point.
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:01 PM
The Dwarves were "adopted" by Eru.
VardaToday at 5:01 PM
Aye.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:01 PM
Heh. Reminds me of the Sellamillion parody.
The Elves were there first, but then the men arrived, and then the dwarves arrived, except they said they'd always been there, just hiding underground.
VardaToday at 5:02 PM
O that's funny.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:02 PM
And after the big war was over and they wanted to rename the land, the Dwarves wanted to call it "Dwarveswereherefirstshire".
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:02 PM
Resists urge to link old story written by some Eonwë guy on the Valar Guild stories page, but obviously does not resist urge to plug said story or the Valar Guild Stories page :}
VardaToday at 5:02 PM
Aww, link it. : )
IrmToday at 5:02 PM
Go Eonwe!
VardaToday at 5:02 PM
Meanwhile,
Where were the dwarves put for their time before awakening?
(Irmo's article made me look this stuff up. )
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:03 PM
Well I'm gonna say one of them was put beneath Gundabad :wink:
VardaToday at 5:03 PM
For sure!
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:03 PM
Well, ok .. ;} http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/fiction/authors/Eonwe/stories/Busted.htm
VardaToday at 5:04 PM
(In a hole in the ground there was stuck a dwarf.)
Thanks, Eonwe! : )
Enjoy, folks. : )
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:04 PM
Heh, nice one :slight_smile:
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:04 PM
Durin was placed in Gundabad, the reason the place was important to the Dwarves.
VardaToday at 5:04 PM
Aye.
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:05 PM
He wandered down to Khazad Dum, looked in the Mirrormere, saw the Valacirca as a crown above his head in his reflection.
VardaToday at 5:05 PM
I am also going to point people to look at the great article on Dwarves by Eonwe. : )
IrmToday at 5:05 PM
Nice one Eonwe, nice to remember that one
VardaToday at 5:05 PM
I want to see an artist do that image.
There were seven Fathers of the Dwarves, each with his own mate except for one, Durin. In notes, JRRT considered that more might also be put in rest nearby those Fathers, but did not make it into the books.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:06 PM
Quite a distance to wander.
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:06 PM
Ok, here's a quote from the Silmarillion, because quotes are fun :}
VardaToday at 5:06 PM
Durin was first to be made and first to awake at Gundabad, so he was the prime ancestor, and the first of the Longbeards.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:06 PM
If Durin had not a mate, how could he start a House...
VardaToday at 5:06 PM
Ah go ahead. : )
An early version of the story had Durin meeting up with the other dwarven groups to collect his house from all of them.
He seems to have been the intended leader of all the families and would take his following from a part of all of the others. Hybrid vigor, perhaps?
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:08 PM
So he needed to wait until the other Houses had grown large enough to provide him with followers?
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:08 PM
"But Iluvatar spoke again and said: ' Even as I gave being to the thoughts of the Ainur at the beginning of the World, so now I have taken up thy desire and given to it a place therein; but in no other way will I amend thy handiwork, and as thou hast made it, so shall it be.
But I will not suffer this: that these should come before  the Firstborn of my design, nor that thy impatience should be rewarded.
They shall sleep now in the darkness under stone, and shall not come forth until the Firstborn have awakened upon the Earth; and until that time thou and they shall wait, though long it seem.
But when the time comes I will awaken them, and they shall be to thee as children; and often strife shall arise between thine and mine, the children of my adoption and the children of my choice.'"
VardaToday at 5:10 PM
Beautiful. Bless the flying fingers of Eonwe.
On to not-the-Durin>
The other fathers were in twos, giving four locations.
So that is 5 locations in all.
When Durin is said to have "slept alone", it may actually have referred to his being the only one of the Fathers not to have another Father with him in the area.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:11 PM
No, that would make 4 locations in all.
VardaToday at 5:11 PM
That might solve Phar's question.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:12 PM
There were 7 dwarf houses, right?
VardaToday at 5:12 PM
Right.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:12 PM
3x2 + 1
VardaToday at 5:12 PM
1, 2, 2
We do know that mates are referred to as having been placed with the Fathers, but none of the names of the Mothers came down to Elves and Men.
ven "Durin" was used as a word for "king" by the Men of the North, so we can't be completely certain if it was a name or a title or one of those names given to outsiders.
*Even
Durin was the only Father at his spot in Gundabad. The others were in two's.
He was also the first made and first to awaken.
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:14 PM
Per Peoples of Middle-Earth Firebeards and the Broadbeams are the Dwarves of Nogrod and Belegost in the Blue Mountains.
VardaToday at 5:14 PM
Aye
The most westerly of these sleeping places was in Beleriand's eastern wall, in the north of the Ered Lindon.
Of this, after the disaster, only part of the Ered Luin (Blue Mountains) remained.
From this place came the Firebeards and the Broadbeams.
IrmToday at 5:15 PM
i must admit I only remebr 3 locations: Belegost, Nogrod and Khzad-Dum (Hahdorond)
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:15 PM
No location given for the other 2 sets, just "further east than Khazad Dum, at distances as great or greater" than the Blue and Misty Mountains.
VardaToday at 5:15 PM
True.
IrmToday at 5:15 PM
aha
VardaToday at 5:16 PM
Durin's place at Gundabad survived the disaster, and was the next most westerly place.
It is just south of the Forodwaith area, which is bordered by the Grey Mountains running east and west.
Where the Blue Mountains run up from the south and meet the Grey Mountains is the location of Gundabad.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:16 PM
Firebeards... I think they nabbed that surname for some Wildhammer dwarves in WoW.
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:16 PM
Ironfists and Stiffbeards are paired up, and the Blacklocks and Stonefoots are paired up.
VardaToday at 5:16 PM
Eonwe, right.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:16 PM
Stiffbeards, eh?
VardaToday at 5:16 PM
The other two places are known to be eastward of Gundabad.
(Phar, it's the soup.)
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:16 PM
hehe
VardaToday at 5:17 PM
The more westerly of those two eastern groups were the Ironfists and the Stiffbeards.
Their ancestral fathers were laid in the same place.
VardaToday at 5:21 PM
Dwarves of the far eastern areas came under the Shadow of Morgoth and turned to evil, as did a few of those more westerly.
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:21 PM
Though for a time in the early stories the Longbeards were connected with Nogrod and Belegost, but that changed.
VardaToday at 5:21 PM
This suggests that the Blacklocks and Stonefoots may have been evil, and that evil ones also came, but maybe were only mixed, from the Blacklocks and Stonefoots.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:22 PM
Do we know where the petty dwarves came from?
VardaToday at 5:22 PM
Now that gets tricksy.
Eonwe, like to field Mim? : )
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:23 PM
Where are we deriving the information on some houses of Dwarves turning evil?
Sure, that one I can handle :}
VardaToday at 5:23 PM
Dwarves of the far eastern areas came under the Shadow of Morgoth and turned to evil, as did a few of those more westerly. ? That comment? Peoples
So it may be outdated, just interesting.
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:24 PM
The petty Dwarves were from houses further east that were driven out, probably for less-than-savory actions on their parts.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:24 PM
They might be the "few" then?
VardaToday at 5:24 PM
(East again)
Might be.
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:25 PM
No specific group of Dwarves is given, but they fled west and founded kingdoms in Beleriend, and were then hunted by the Elves of Doriath, who did not realize they were sentient beings because they could never actually get a glimpse of what was assailing them.
When the Dwarves of Nogrod and Belegost finally started travelling into Beleriand and came in contact with the Elves, Thingol realized what the deal was and stopped hunting them.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:27 PM
Must've been an awkward realization.
VardaToday at 5:27 PM
The other dwarves didn't like the petty dwarves either.
IrmToday at 5:27 PM
I have t admit that Iwrote the VG entry on MIM for the encyclopedia and forgot ALL about it
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:27 PM
Nargothrond was originally one of the halls of the Petty-Dwarves in Beleriand.
VardaToday at 5:27 PM
Feel free to link, Irm.  : )
IrmToday at 5:27 PM
NO, I hate dwarved as you quite well know
dwarves
VardaToday at 5:28 PM
Mim is no shining example of dwarfkind. : )
No worries
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:28 PM
Petty Dwarves had become smaller than other Dwarves, and their smithcraft was inferior as well.
VardaToday at 5:28 PM
They were smaller, dirtier, and quite unpleasant.
The Gollum of dwarves, in a way.
MahaToday at 5:28 PM
They smelled bad as well
IrmToday at 5:29 PM
And I did NOT like that detail about Nargothrond, thank you Eonwe
VardaToday at 5:29 PM
There you go. : )
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:29 PM
I wonder what would've happened had they met Hobbits.
VardaToday at 5:29 PM
Heh, poor Nargothrond. Even had a dragon in it.
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:29 PM
hehehe
MahaToday at 5:29 PM
eww dragon scent
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:30 PM
Hobbits seemed to have hung around with the bigger folk, so probably would've had some bigger human go 'Yeah, they're with us."
VardaToday at 5:30 PM
Heh.
I did not find Stoutaxes or Dourhands that are used in LotRO gaming, but we could say they could be sub-groups of those more easterly, early groups.
In LotRO, the Stoutaxes worked for Mordor but were glad to come out from under that domination.
The Dourhands were traitorous and never came out as good folk.
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:31 PM
I think the best way to take them is offshoots of one of the major Dwarf Houses, aye.
VardaToday at 5:31 PM
Possibly.
I see a lot of messages of typing going on. : )
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:34 PM
In reference to Dwarves "Coming under the Shadow," I think I need to refresh myself on that. I know there were some who fought on the side of Sauron in the Second Age, so I'm not saying it's impossible, but given the fates of the Dwarf RIngs it seems Sauron wouldn't have had the major houses under his foot or he wouldn't have had to get those rings back.
VardaToday at 5:34 PM
Dwarves affected by the Rings tended only to have the vice of greed be increased. They did not care to kneel even to Sauron voluntarily.
Stiff knees.
IrmToday at 5:35 PM
Anyway, from what I read it is mentioned by JRR that the dwarves really tried to reconquer Gundabad after Durin went to Khazad-Dum, and succeeded twice, but soon thereafter it was always retaken, so I guess in LOTROgame we will only meet orcs there (though dwarves are just as bad really)
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:35 PM
And beards.
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:35 PM
Is that a 300 reference, Varda? :}
VardaToday at 5:35 PM
May-be.
The game is mostly set during and after the War of the Rings, so probably.
Did the dwarves ever re-take Gundabad after the War? They probably would have liked to.
They might have gotten help from the High King
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:37 PM
If they can take Moria back...
IrmToday at 5:37 PM
Nothing I read confirms that, alas
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:37 PM
I don't see Gundabad would be a problem.
VardaToday at 5:38 PM
I saw nothing of it. It would have had to be in a new story, maybe the one JRRT decided not to write since it was turning into a mere "thriller" adventure.
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:38 PM
I don't believe I've read they ever retook GUndabad.
VardaToday at 5:38 PM
Agreed.
IrmToday at 5:39 PM
Well, after the war athere was an alliance between the dwarves or Erebor, the men of Dale, and the dwarves, they may quite well have undertaken that effort, but it is not mentioned
VardaToday at 5:39 PM
Aye.
And just because it's so nifty:
http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/articles/d/dwarves/dwarvesE.htm
    Dwarves
    Article on Dwarves of Middle-earth, information from
    the books of the Silmarillion, Lord of the Rings, and Histories of
    Middle-earth.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:39 PM
I can't imagine they would've been happy leaving Orcs anywhere.
VardaToday at 5:39 PM
(Above by Eonwe)
I remember reading that Aragorn's and Eomer's forces worked together to do a lot of clean-up.
IrmToday at 5:40 PM
Great article that Eonwe <bows>
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:40 PM
In the south, anyway.
VardaToday at 5:41 PM
We have some mighty scholars in this group. Very fortunate.
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:41 PM
I don't know. Granted, this is just me talking here, with only my impressions to go by, but I think retaking Gundabad is something Dwarves would've wanted to do themselves, if they could once more gather all seven houses together to do so..
Thanks :}
VardaToday at 5:42 PM
That's a possiblity. Those stiff knees, y'know.
IrmToday at 5:42 PM
I would HOPE the dwarves learned some lessons bythen though :stuck_out_tongue:
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:42 PM
Durin VII was the one who took Moria back.
I really don't think they'd leave Gundabad alloone.
*alone
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:43 PM
Gundabad was where all seven houses would send delegates to meet.
VardaToday at 5:43 PM
True.
Annnd too much fun. Ran our meeting nearly an hour over!
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:44 PM
hehe
VardaToday at 5:44 PM
In deference to our mostly European chatters and our late night worker,
IrmToday at 5:44 PM
I am glad I have a holiday tomorrow (Kings Birthday in Holland)
VardaToday at 5:44 PM
sends in the gavel
Happy holiday!
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:45 PM
Oh, another Dutch person!
We are everywhere.
IrmToday at 5:45 PM
As if you did not know that
VardaToday at 5:45 PM
the gavel of Aule
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:45 PM
If I knew, I'd forgotten :wink:
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:45 PM
It's a jolly 'oliday with Irmo? :}
VardaToday at 5:45 PM
ker-whommmp!
 Aule is called in to repair our table and hammerpad
IrmToday at 5:45 PM
Boinggg
VardaToday at 5:45 PM
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After-meeting!
Free chat. : )
Free Dreamlord.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:46 PM
His halls must've been flowing with once-dead dwarves by the end.
VardaToday at 5:46 PM
We Valar just keep making more area at need. : )
Never run out!
Handy to have "nothing" around the land area, except Vai water.
IrmToday at 5:46 PM
I am off to bread, thanks all, was very inspiring ! :wave:
VardaToday at 5:47 PM
pearls in the water!
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:47 PM
namarie!
VardaToday at 5:47 PM
Thank you so much for coming!
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:47 PM
In response to Phar: Another story by that Eonwë guy --- http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/fiction/authors/Eonwe/stories/Homecoming.htm :}
    Homecoming
    Story: A dwarf's homecoming.
TreebeardToday at 5:47 PM
Good bye all and Namarie
VardaToday at 5:47 PM
hehe, thanks!
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:47 PM
Take care and sleep well Irmo and Fangorn :}
VardaToday at 5:48 PM
Beautiful. sniffle
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:48 PM
Aw, nice :slight_smile:
namarie!
VardaToday at 5:48 PM
Namarie!
I need to see to the care and feeding of the Taniquetil residents. : )
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:49 PM
Good luck!
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:49 PM
Feed well Varda :}
VardaToday at 5:49 PM
hehe
calls in some Maiar to help!
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:50 PM
I suppose I should turn my attention elsewhere as well.
Take care all, good night, sleep well, and have fun :}
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:51 PM
Namarie!
Guess I'm heading into some Storm and Stone.
(2 different games)
ArienValarToday at 6:22 PM
Namarie my friens :slight_smile:
take good care all and stay safe :slight_smile:
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 6:22 PM
Namarie!
spectating Fladrif in Hearthstone
VardaToday at 6:50 PM
Back
Namarie to those that left. : )
Hi to Flad!
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 6:51 PM
He says hi back :smile:
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Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 7:02 PM
Perrrrsonal gaming report!
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 7:11 PM
For flashgaming
... this is interesting. One old game which is rather atmospheric but also a bit sad, one badge of the day this week I didn't have but might be somewhat inappropriate.. and an idle game I happened to try a bit that doesn't really stand out, but can keep you busy for a bit :wink:
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 7:31 PM
Alright, just had to play through the first one  myself again :wink:
https://www.kongregate.com/games/wittyhobos/coma is the first game! Atmospheric platformer game in a black and white world with weird terrain and characters, overcome the obstacles, read the text on the walls if you like, and ultimate ring the bell :slight_smile:
    Kongregate
    Coma
    Help Pete find his way through his mysterious, subconscious world.
    LEADER BOARDS: You can now compete with Kongregate members and see who can beat the game th...

https://www.kongregate.com/games/Komix/seed-of-destruction is the second game... the seed in question is a sperm, but that's, as far as I can tell, where the inappropriateness ends. Fly it around and defeat the military shooting at you in each level; turning around quickly allows you to deflect weapons with the tail.
    Kongregate
    Seed of Destruction
    squish the little humans as if they were ants!

Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 7:45 PM
https://www.kongregate.com/games/VadGames/idle-arcanoid for the third game, which is pretty much what it says :slight_smile:
    Play IDLE ARCANOID on Kongregate
    Kongregate free online game IDLE ARCANOID - Take a look at the Arkanoid genre in a new way, now it is a redesigned game in the new genreID.... Play IDLE ARCANOID
    A self-playing arcanoid game where you collect money to buy upgrades and get even more money!
Hint: Much of the progress will come from upgrading the rocket launcher :slight_smile:
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Blizzard gaming:
Heroes of the Storm:
3 levels gained, up to 406! (brief moment to make a 404 joke, but it passed ;))
Genji to 14, Dehaka to 11, and Deathwing to 3 through a brawl. Getting the hang of Deathwing a bit, but needs practice.
Hearthstone:
Going okay, no new DH level yet and still a bit daunted by the prospect of opening packs :wink:
Brawl this week is one where you play a minion and get a random spell of the same cost, but playable for free.
Looked around a bit for decks, and settled on a mage deck with flamewakers, the minions that deal 2 random damage whenever you cast a spell.
Combined with many low cost minions and thus a lot of free spells, it did quite a bit of damage :slight_smile:
Opponent couldn't get a hold of the board, and ultimately fell to mine!
WoW:
Raiding going well, pretty much heroic on farm, though Vexiona took a few tries today. Many people standing in breath debuff.
I got myself an aoe trinket from Drestagath and a hat from Ra-Den, which means the only piece missing now is shoulders from N'Zoth for my feral spec.
Also got a few corrupted pieces on the side, and after juggling with it a bit, now doing a bit more damage for a bit more corruption.
Another few runs with our Horrific Vision group, trying out 5 masks. But we ran into some trouble in the Mage Quarter with all the bad affixes, and didn't quite make it.
But I did get a new pet out of it, the Void-Scarred Hare!
Weekly this week is mythic dungeons, which I did 4 of luckily rather easily, including a Tol Dagor run with a lockpicker which made it rather shorter :slight_smile:
And at some point a fresh level 120 randomly poked me for a boost through that same dungeon but on normal difficulty for a quest, and since I didn't have anything urgent to do, thought I'd help him out! Pretty easy to solo for me now :slight_smile:
I'm done with the Arathi Warfront! Kept doing it once every cycle for some medals and rewards, but the real thing I wanted was my last achievement there to complete all the random events and fight all the random mobs popping up.
With Plaguefeather, my last one, finally spawning, I was quite happy :slight_smile:
IorethToday at 8:10 PM
Me and another person in my guild introduced a couple new players to Mythic 0s, it is always so much fun
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 8:10 PM
Yes, and so much more relaxed than a keystone run :slight_smile:
Other than that, still struggling to catch up with wowhead. Got a few more pages done, and now less than a month behind, but it's a really busy month :wink:
Oh, and today the 26th was my main's anniversary, 15 years since I first created my druid!
VardaToday at 8:14 PM
Grats, Phar : )
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 8:14 PM
Thanks :slight_smile:
IorethToday at 8:14 PM
wow, I think mine is a little further in the summer. I created her the week that Kara opened. My hunter I created January 2006
VardaToday at 8:15 PM
Aiya Ioreth : )
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 8:15 PM
Well, it was 2005 for me. Kara was in BC, right?
And Aiya :slight_smile:
IorethToday at 8:15 PM
northrend I think, when they made raids from 40 to 25
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 8:16 PM
Nah, that was BC.
IorethToday at 8:16 PM
really? I don't remember that long ago, but the funny thing is I'm still looking for spells my druid had then
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 8:16 PM
hehe
IorethToday at 8:17 PM
and my hunter... I miss wyvren sting
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 8:17 PM
Well, they're bringing back Heart of the Wild in Shadowlands :wink: No word on Mark.
ah yes
IorethToday at 8:17 PM
fun, then I have to remember to use it...
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 8:17 PM
hehe
Well, that was blizzard gaming for me this week.
IorethToday at 8:19 PM
We're not on farm heroic yet, but nearly so. Personally I can heal the whole thing EXCEPT N'Zoth. I had to hire a N'Zoth kill for AOTC
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 8:19 PM
Ouch.
I'm tank/melee, and have some trouble kiting Psychus around fast enough, but with me as a kittycat instead it goes well :wink:
IorethToday at 8:20 PM
150K sigh, and I lived the entire fight until seconds before the kill.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 8:20 PM
Expensive.
I say, despite buying a 100k treadblade a few weeks earlier.
I guess it's a small price to pay for the voidwing.
IorethToday at 8:21 PM
but it gave me a chance to participate in the whole fight without being a "required" member, and I didn't have to go below for that phase. I learned a lot and was relaxed for the whole fight
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 8:21 PM
Ah, nice :slight_smile:
IorethToday at 8:22 PM
I could have died at the start and it wouldn't have mattered to them... that is why they get the gold
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 8:22 PM
I guess they were expecting you to, as well :slight_smile:
IorethToday at 8:22 PM
yep

Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 8:24 PM
Well, I'll finish my report with a bit of Total Annihilation...
Turns out Arm campaign really is the "intro" campaign... Arm and Core are equal in difficulty and story, but Arm has a bit more of a tutorial vibe and more detailed mission descriptions. Still, doing them other way around doesn't matter.
Got all the way to level 14 now, getting out of that silly aquatic world and into a couple of landbased ones, finally getting introduced to the use of aircraft.
And quickly got the Brawler as well, the fighter plane which is deadly in numbers and pretty much shreds anything the enemy can throw at me, so now my overall strategy is set for the rest of the campaign :wink:
Most annoying world is yet to come, though.. Rougpelt, with meteor showers.
But that's for next week!
And that's my report for the week :slight_smile:

VardaToday at 8:28 PM
Thank you, Phar : )
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 8:31 PM
annnd it seems like an assault is up in WoW so I'll check to see if a quest I need happens to be among it.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 8:45 PM
Right zone, wrong quests :wink: maybe next time
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 8:57 PM
namarie!
VardaToday at 10:06 PM
Namarie Phar
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