Valar Guild

June 30, 2019 Sunday Meeting

5:00 P.M. Eastern time (-4 GMT aka 9 P.M. aka 21:00)

Discord: Valar Guild/meeting_place

Back to News
Transcript work by Varda.

Attending (and spoke): (9)
    Discord: Anarion, Arien, Ar-Pharazon, Arwen, Celebrian, Elrond, Eonwe (Before), Falco (Before), Varda (presiding)

Before-meeting
Meeting begins
Membership news:
Web:
Gaming:
    General reports
Tolkien:
    Topic: Leadership styles of Gandalf, Aragorn, Theoden, and Denethor compared and contrasted.
After-meeting:
    Flashgaming Reviews by Ar-Pharazon.
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Before-meeting
(times are in Central from Varda's Discord, so add one hour for Eastern. Example: 4pm Central in the transcript is 5pm Eastern)

Eonwe ValarYesterday at 4:23 AM
Heya all. Quick question on LotRO virtues: now that it's determined by experience-type gains, and you have to select which one earns the exp, what happens to Virtue experience if the one you selected caps out? My understanding is Virtue exp gains is limited to the deeds that previously gave virtues, so it seems to me a poor design decision if it's possible to lose that limited pool of experience.

FalcoYesterday at 7:13 AM
Here are the Release Notes: Virtues
The Virtue system has been updated. The system now advances through Virtue Experience, allowing you to select the Virtue that will benefit from your Deed completions. Open the Traits Panel with (J) to navigate to the redesigned Virtues tab to examine your Virtues, select an earning Virtue, and slot any Virtues you would like active.
- All deeds that currently grant a specific Virtue will instead grant Virtue XP that can be assigned by players to the earning Virtue of their choice.
- A new Virtue, Wit, has been added to the game.
- The stats given by actively slotted Virtues are in the vast majority of cases going to be better than they were previously.
- All earned Virtues now grant a passive benefit that you will receive, even when the virtue is not actively slotted.
- Players who earned Virtue ranks that could not be previously expressed will gain credit when Update 24 is released.
- Virtue benefits will be capped based on character level, including the non-Slotted Virtues' passive benefits.
- There are numerous ways to gain Virtue XP, including deeds, end-game repeatable quests, festival quests, and Featured Challenges.
    - Virtue Tomes and Bundles have been unpublished from the LOTRO Store, and are no longer available to purchase. All currently-held Virtue Tomes will convert into items that grant Virtue XP.
    - For other sources of Virtue tomes prior to the release of Update 24:
      - Virtue Tomes found in lootboxes will be replaced with an item that grants 1,000 Virtue XP.
      - The Gift of the Valar (Level 50) will give five items that grant 20,000 Virtue XP, and 10 items that give 10,000 Virtue XP.
      - The Blessing of the Valar (Level 95) will give 20 items that grant 20,000 Virtue XP.
      - The Aria of the Valar (Level 105) will give five items that give 70,000 Virtue XP, and 15 items that give 20,000 Virtue XP.
      - Note that the Virtue XP items from the Valars are acquired via a quest after consuming the Valar levelup item.

June 30, 2019
Eonwe ValarToday at 4:44 AM
The last major bullet point addressed one of my concerns. Fair enough. Didn't spend enough time reading the patch notes to remember that part at 4 in the morning, heh.
The penultimate major bullet point is interestingly worded: "Benefits" are capped, but it doesn't mention experience gain. So is the exp lost, or does it still accumulate, just not doing any good until the cap is raised?

Eonwe ValarToday at 5:56 AM
Ok, had some free time to actually look into this, and this post on the official LotRO forum seems to cover the other half of my concerns: https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?673247-Confused-On-How-The-New-Virtue-System-Works
Confused On How The New Virtue System Works
New beorning, locked at 11, slotted virtues Wit (r5), Honour (r5) and Innocence (r4). I had Honour or Innocence selected to earn VXP.

Completed the 6 Shire slayer deeds for VXP. The 6 individual slayer deeds granted 2000 VXP each plus the completed Slayer Deed for anothe...
Just in case anyone else was interested.

VardaToday at 4:00 PM
Aiya
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:02 PM
Aiya
VardaToday at 4:03 PM
The Phar!
ArwenToday at 4:05 PM
ello
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:05 PM
Aiya!
VardaToday at 4:05 PM
Aiya Arwen! : )
CelebrianToday at 4:07 PM
Aiya!
VardaToday at 4:07 PM
Aiya Celebrian : )
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:08 PM
Aiya!
ElrondToday at 4:09 PM
aiya
VardaToday at 4:09 PM
Aiya Elrond : )
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:09 PM
Aiya!
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VardaToday at 4:10 PM
Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
Membership:
Delightful to see you all gaming, chatting, and generally being fabulous. : )
Happy upcoming July 4!
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:11 PM
fabulous.. or fabious?
https://www.wowhead.com/news=292687
    Wowhead
    Fabious Mount Solved - Selfie Picture Required
    Fabious is one of the new Tidestallion mounts in Rise of Azshara. With 8.2 released on live servers, all you need to do to obtain this beauty is appeal to his vanity!
VardaToday at 4:11 PM
Meriadoc is planning on visiting for that. We generally have lots of fireworks.
Fabious looks like one cool seahorse. : )
Hello from Sauron and Fangorn on this side of the screen.
They pass by and wave. : )
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Web:
Nothing new on the Tolkien Site, just a wishlist of articles, heh.
Games Site updated, thanks to Eonwe. Yay!
Feel free to send him gaming news for the Games Site, reviews of your games.
Speaking of,
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Gaming!
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:15 PM
Aiya to the tree and the... ehr... evil Maia
VardaToday at 4:15 PM
hehe
You got a bwahahahahaha out of that.
World of WarCraft:
This week's bonus event: Battlegrounds.
The PvP Brawl: Southshore vs Tarren Mill begins June 25 and runs through Tuesday, July 2nd.
New blogs:
Take to the Skies With Battle for Azeroth Pathfinder, Part 2
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23035750/take-to-the-skies-with-battle-for-azeroth-pathfinder-part-2
    World of Warcraft
    Take to the Skies With Battle for Azeroth Pathfinder, Part 2 - WoW
    Soar over land and sea on your new Wonderwing 2.0 when you complete Battle for Azeroth Pathfinder, Part Two!
Rise of Azshara Preview: Heart of Azeroth Updates
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/22956187/rise-of-azshara-preview-heart-of-azeroth-updates
    World of Warcraft
    Rise of Azshara Preview: Heart of Azeroth Updates - WoW
    In Rise of Azshara, the Heart of Azeroth will get a boost with the help of MOTHER, and players can seek out new ways to customize their powers through Essences.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:18 PM
essences essences
VardaToday at 4:18 PM
heh
Check out this week's hotfixes.
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23036677/hotfixes-june-28-2019
    World of Warcraft
    Hotfixes: June 28, 2019 - WoW
    Here you'll find a list of hotfixes that address various issues related to World of Warcraft: Battle For Azeroth.
That goblin has so much attitude. : )

Hearthstone:
A new Developer Insights blog is out: Developer Insights: Class Identity, Hall of Fame, and New Cards.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:19 PM
I like his sideburns.
VardaToday at 4:19 PM
So blue.
https://playhearthstone.com/en-us/blog/23014810/developer-insights-class-identity-hall-of-fame-and-new-cards
    Developer Insights: Class Identity, Hall of Fame, and New Cards
    Join us as we break down Hearthstone class identities, talk about what’s headed to the Hall of Fame, and introduce you to some new Classic cards coming to the game in our next major update.

Lord of the Rings Online:
Game servers will be down Monday, July 1st 8am to 12pm Eastern for an update. Check out the notes for Update 24.1.3.
https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?673797-Update-24-1-3-Release-Notes
    Update 24.1.3 Release Notes
    Here are the Release Notes for Update 24.1.3, released on Monday, July 1st.
    News and Notes:
    Items
    The Steed of Summer's Night had some goat characteristics. This has been fixed and the steed can no longer be ridden in the mines of Moria and other underground l...
Do we have any other news from the Eve, SWtOR, or other games that you folks would like to toss in?

For Eve, for those who didn't see:
Eve Online:
        Pallando-(Valar) and his partner were to give a presentation for the Eve North event but... In his own words (with a link addition):

    so my presentation didn't happen because of a scheduling conflict... of me wining the tournament that took place at the event
    https://clips.twitch.tv/ColdSmokyLocustRiPepperonis
        Twitch
        Tournament Winning Drinks - Clip of CCP - Twitch Clips
    I'm the one in the Electus Matari tshirt. :smiley:
    I won a bunch of ingame money, a keyboard... and an all-expenses paid trip to the Eve Fanfest next year in Iceland to compete in the grand championship.
Twitch
Tournament Winning Drinks - Clip of CCP - Twitch Clips

And here's a link to Electus Matari:
http://www.electusmatari.com/
    Electus Matari
    Electus Matari | Loyal to the Minmatar Republic
Maybe we need a tee-shirt. : )
Put our logo on it. : )
Anyway, that is fantastic news about Pallando. : )
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:23 PM
grats to Pallando!
What is the valarguild logo again?
VardaToday at 4:23 PM
Two really. The Valar Guild in gold, and the shield.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:23 PM
What looks better on a shirt?
VardaToday at 4:23 PM
http://valarguild.org/
    Valar Guild
    an international society of Tolkien appreciators and gamers.
for the gold name
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:24 PM
Actually, it happened to land on the shield picture as well for me :smile:
VardaToday at 4:24 PM
    http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/art/gallery/Elatan/Shieldvignette.jpg
Is our shield [Note: Designed by Elatan-Valar using numerous elements]
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:24 PM
Yep, that's the one that showed on the homepage.
VardaToday at 4:24 PM
Now that's timing!
I see a model of one of the Rohirrim. : )
It changes with clicking on the page, for fun.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:26 PM
I know, but it was good timing indeed :smiley:
VardaToday at 4:26 PM
So the color of the tee-shirt might decide which one you'd want. Or have the shield near the shoulder or on the shoulder side?
But onwards...
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:27 PM
maybe shield on the front, gold on the back?
VardaToday at 4:27 PM
and vice versa. All good.
Any other general gaming news folks would like to mention?
LotRO still has Summerfest. Get the new horse before it goes to mithril coin buying. : )
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:28 PM
World of Warcraft: 8.2 has begun!
VardaToday at 4:28 PM
Ah hah!
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:29 PM
New cutscenes, zones, mechanics, pets, mounts, essssencesssss, and all that stuff!
VardaToday at 4:32 PM
Concerning LotRO, in this channel ahead of the meeting, you can see a discussion between Eonwe and Falco that gives some explanation of the new Virtue system.
Also for LotRO, folks that showed up in kin for our three branches this past week:

Landroval:
Arien
Ecthelion
Eonwe
Fangorn
Mirabella
Nar
Thranduil
Varda

Ithil:
Arien
Falco
Fangorn
Dis
Varda

Anor:
Fangorn
Varda

Any other gaming news?
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:35 PM
Oh, and I spotted Arien in WoW yesterday.
..who's not here?
checks bnet
Because she had other news as well.
VardaToday at 4:37 PM
She's welcome to share her news whenever she gets the chance. : ) Nice that we have this message board/chat program.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:37 PM
She's not on bnet. Anyway, she said something about spotting Menelvagor on the server again :smiley:
So for further details, poke her!
VardaToday at 4:37 PM
Nice!
I do see him on the side in Discord, in WoW. No answer, probably trying to stay alive. : )
Which server, Phar?
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:38 PM
Argent Dawn, Europe.
VardaToday at 4:38 PM
Thank you.
Any other business? News? Comments? Requests?
AnarionToday at 4:40 PM
Do we have a link to more details on what the EVE tournament Pallando-Valar won was?
VardaToday at 4:41 PM
Ahh, good question.
Celebrian? Elrond? Could you help us here?
I believe it was one held at the event?
ElrondToday at 4:42 PM
I think it was a pvp tournament, and then he will go to Iceland for Fanfest next year to compete against other top players to see who is the most elite pvp'er.
VardaToday at 4:42 PM
So it was a tourament event held in Canada that he won. Eve North I think.
AnarionToday at 4:43 PM
Looks like 2v2 things then, but I'm not sure
ElrondToday at 4:44 PM
Not sure what the winner of that will get, probably a green killboard (j/k). Usually they give out special ships of one of a kind, in game money, etc.
VardaToday at 4:44 PM
The good stuff. : )
AnarionToday at 4:45 PM
Neat
VardaToday at 4:48 PM
On to...
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Tolkien!
Here's one for you. There's a teacher who does a leadership class using Tolkien's works.
She has them compare the differences in the way these leaders led: Aragorn, Gandalf, Theoden and Denethor
I'd also add the question, did they have any leadership methods in common that worked?
One difference would be who they led. Aragorn had different groups to lead at varying times. Gandalf's changed up a good bit. But the other two mostly had the same people, especially Denethor. Theoden went out in the field too.
What are your thoughts? You can all type at once and still be heard. : )
AnarionToday at 4:52 PM
Well Aragorn, before retaking the kingship was an interesting case because he didn't have a group that he was assigned the leader of.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:52 PM
Well, Gandalf wasn't supposed to be a leader, at least not in battle. Though he took it up somewhat after coming back from the dead.
VardaToday at 4:53 PM
Aragorn. He was the leader of the Northern Rangers. Elladan and Elrohir went riding with them, and we see Aragorn taking reports.
AnarionToday at 4:54 PM
Ah, my apologies, but we don't see that much in the books
VardaToday at 4:54 PM
Good point about Gandalf. He was supposed to be an advisor as Gandalf the Grey.
True, we don't see it much in the books. It's shown at Rivendell a bit. Then later when the Grey Company joins Aragorn just before he enters the Paths of the Dead.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:56 PM
And of course at the Pelennor with the banner.
AnarionToday at 4:57 PM
Bah, I should have said "arrives at Minas Tirith"
I think that Gandalf and Aragorn are actually pretty similar in how they lead the hobbits/dwarves/fellowship. Sometimes they leave to do something necessary, and the group has to find a way to bumble through without. When the group needs direction, they step up and give it, but sometimes they just kinda serve as advisors.
Both are known to be extremely useful, and the group looks up to them
VardaToday at 4:58 PM
Interesting. Makes sense, because Aragorn learned a lot from Gandalf.
Gandalf probably influenced his somewhat hands-off leadership style?
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:59 PM
Gandalf's school of leadership.
VardaToday at 4:59 PM
: )
Gandalf influenced Theoden's leadership, needing to since another of his order had corrupted it. Obligation as well as good for Middle-earth.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:00 PM
He was less successful with Denethor :smiley:
AnarionToday at 5:00 PM
^^
VardaToday at 5:00 PM
Sauron got to him pretty heavily first with the Palantir.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:01 PM
Interesting parallel between Theoden and Denethor. Both corrupted and weakened by Sauron and Saruman, both confronted by Gandalf in an effort to undo it. But it only worked on one.
AnarionToday at 5:01 PM
indeed
I definitely think that Aragorn and Gandalf having known each other is a part of why those are similar, but I think a part of it is just how groups without defined leadership have to work by their nature.
VardaToday at 5:02 PM
Good point.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:02 PM
Maybe groups containing hobbits are easier to manage.
VardaToday at 5:02 PM
or harder. ; )
AnarionToday at 5:03 PM
Interestingly, despite Aragorn and Gandalf's strength, they still slough off at least one difficult decision to Frodo -- in part due to the political dynamics of the group
VardaToday at 5:03 PM
Gandalf was trying to teach the Free Folk to learn to manage their problems themselves.
True.
Also, Frodo needed to make his own choices to help him fight the Ring that was trying to make his choices for him.
AnarionToday at 5:05 PM
Is Theoden's example of leadership in LOTR supposed to be a good one?
Even after Gandalf frees him, I mean
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:05 PM
Good example, or good leadership? :smiley:
AnarionToday at 5:06 PM
Example of good leadership, haha
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:06 PM
I think so, yes. At least at not being afraid to fight alongside his men. And for calling them to action in the first place.
VardaToday at 5:06 PM
Theoden's seemed intended to be good. He had a lot of different groups to bring together that hadn't been led much in a long time. The Cat-herder, quite a job.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:06 PM
And then finally deciding to aid Gondor.
VardaToday at 5:07 PM
Denethor meant well, pretty much, but Sauron kept showing him versions of the truth that led him to despair and to quit hoping.
Hope and despair are two main themes in the book. Sometimes all a hobbit needed was to see one star shining above the reek.
They reached Denethor too late. Would have been good to have kept him from seeing in that Palantir.
He thought the black-sailed Corsair ships were the Enemy, for instance, when it was Aragorn with help. He only saw them from a distance, apparently.
Sauron, Spin-doctor.
AnarionToday at 5:11 PM
Is there a leadership method that is similar between Theoden and Denethor that is similar other than the fact of their kingship?
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:11 PM
Denethor wasn't even king.
AnarionToday at 5:11 PM
Erm
Of course
I mean, he was effectively a monarchich head
They could say to the right person "do this" and it would be done
Or vice versa
VardaToday at 5:12 PM
They both had to lead large kingdoms with an alliance. Both were attacked on two levels by Sauron physically and mentally. They both felt a heavy burden but came at it best they knew how.
Theoden would get out in the field, but he also knew how to lead by using others to do the masses of work, which Denethor was very good at. They both tried to use their own eyes and their scouts.
They both were "The buck stops here" types.
AnarionToday at 5:14 PM
I like that last one
VardaToday at 5:14 PM
Me too. : )
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:14 PM
Eh. Denethor was just a bit more whiny about it.
VardaToday at 5:15 PM
They were all worthy men. Sauron needed to corrupt them to make progress and had to work at it.
ArienValarToday at 5:17 PM
Aiya people .. sorry for the late arrival
VardaToday at 5:17 PM
Glad you could come!
ArienValarToday at 5:17 PM
we were surprisingly invited to a barbeque from our infinity circle :smiley:
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:17 PM
Aiya!
VardaToday at 5:17 PM
As many times as you've been right there at the beginning or even leading, we can surely cut you some slack. : )
mmmm barbecue.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:18 PM
yay roasted meats!
ArienValarToday at 5:18 PM
Juriaan is such a good cook as well was really nice
handmade guacamole .. yumm
VardaToday at 5:18 PM
yay!
May we ask what an Infinity Circle is?
ArienValarToday at 5:19 PM
hehe sorry , was a bad formulation . remember in winter how we played the board game infinity?
VardaToday at 5:19 PM
ah ok
ArienValarToday at 5:19 PM
Infinity
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:19 PM
And here I was thinking it was a Mobius strip.
ArienValarToday at 5:20 PM
basically the group of players plus a couple extras :smiley:
but i figured they are playing something else with Juriaan sometimes or one is and the other one is the wife of the latest addition to the Ininity group
but .. to your topic .. thank the Valar Aragorn was made of sterner stuff than Sauron thought
VardaToday at 5:22 PM
Totally agree!
ArienValarToday at 5:22 PM
and that corruption thing didnt quite work out
AnarionToday at 5:22 PM
I'm not sure I would say that of Denethor "he was a worthy man". The way he lead his children, for instance, does not seem to be particularly Sauron's doing. I wouldn't say that he was incompetent, but he seemed in every way flawed (unworthy) to take on the task he has been assigned.
ArienValarToday at 5:22 PM
maybe he was once
he might have been originally
AnarionToday at 5:23 PM
I think he would have been a good city administrator
VardaToday at 5:23 PM
Denethor did seem flawed to me too. It may have become worse after the death of his wife, Finduilas, who was a gentling influence. But he was already pretty cold, one reason she had problems.
AnarionToday at 5:23 PM
but that wasn't really his role, I think
ArienValarToday at 5:25 PM
he sought control of his future . .. but instead .. the future controlled him and drove him round the bend so to say because he couldnt control it
AnarionToday at 5:26 PM
This: https://www.shmoop.com/return-of-the-king/denethor.html, suggests that one of Denethor's problems is an inabillity to accept difficult words from an outsider
Denethor in The Return of the King
Everything you ever wanted to know about Denethor in The Return of the King, written by masters of this stuff just for you.
I'm not sure I agree with all of what is in that summary, but I'd agree with that point
VardaToday at 5:27 PM
That's true for many people.
AnarionToday at 5:27 PM
I think it's true for everyone to some extent
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:27 PM
That makes it sound like Gandalf should've used single-syllable words :wink:
VardaToday at 5:27 PM
thanks, checking it out
AnarionToday at 5:27 PM
^^, haha
VardaToday at 5:27 PM
lol Phar
AnarionToday at 5:28 PM
When it comes to leadership, dealing with someone giving advice (or not!) is one of the more difficult things that can ruin a good attempt, or make a medicore one. I think LOTR deals with that theme a lot.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:29 PM
If only he'd been as distrusting towards the palantir.
VardaToday at 5:29 PM
They get a group of advisors, try to listen to all of the suggestions and data, and come to a reasonable conclusion. Not easy!
The Palantir told him truth, but slanted. Aye.
Get enough angles, and maybe the leader can figure out what's going on and what to do.
AnarionToday at 5:30 PM
Did Aragorn listen to an outside view with respect to the Paths of the Dead, or did he come up with that himself?
VardaToday at 5:31 PM
Malbeth the Seer prophesied it. He [Aragorn] was hoping to be able to get out of it, but the problem of arriving in time forced his hand. "Need drives him."
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:31 PM
The curse of punctuality...
or wait, I misread what you said
the problem was that he needed to be on time, not that he got there on time :smiley:
AnarionToday at 5:33 PM
I think another way LOTR deals with leadership is when the leaders are given an impossible situation
Sauruman, Denethor, Aragorn, Elrond, Gandalf
What do you do when you don't think any of your plans will work out?
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:34 PM
Throwing yourself on a pyre seems to be a less than ideal course of action.
VardaToday at 5:34 PM
Another thing about Denethor. It is said he could see into what drove a man and used it like a sword, while Faramir had the same gift but was moved to compassion.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:34 PM
If they could see that in each other, it'd explain why they could never get along.
VardaToday at 5:34 PM
Some would rather die than be taken by an enemy like Sauron. Also, it was an old way that he thought would give glory. Seems like a bad move.
They saw it, and right.
ArienValarToday at 5:36 PM
.. uh Anarion .. play kindergarden on schoolyard level according to the British parliament or wear rain bow coloured goggles ...
AnarionToday at 5:36 PM
I'm...going to need a source for that
ArienValarToday at 5:38 PM
haha sorry don't .. you just get depressions from it :wink: nah just being a bit sarcastic referring to the current British political situation
VardaToday at 5:38 PM
Anarion pardon, source for which?
ArienValarToday at 5:38 PM
just stuck in the middle of the search for leadership kind of b rought it to my mind
VardaToday at 5:39 PM
It's kind of nice to come here for Middle-earth and get away from all that. My sympathy. Constant bombardment of politics on this side of the pond too.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:40 PM
I have no idea over here, really. I'm like two months behind on news reports. Last I heard they were having trouble forming regional coalitions, but don't know what's going on nationally.
ArienValarToday at 5:40 PM
the question was from Anarion was What do you do when you don't think any of your plans will work out?
VardaToday at 5:41 PM
Ok, if you think your plans won't work out, you do a Frodo and keep walking. : )
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:41 PM
Yep, gotta reach that volcano eventually.
Doesn't matter what happens after.
VardaToday at 5:42 PM
It's still out there. Just have to reach it. keeps on walking
ArienValarToday at 5:42 PM
i d listen to my advisors or look on past records for similar situations and see whether we can learn from that experience maybe
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:42 PM
Of course, that's an easy choice. What if there's 3 volcanos in different directions and you've no idea which one if any you need for your goal?
VardaToday at 5:43 PM
You ask Gandalf and Elrond for a map?
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:43 PM
There you go, listening to advisors :wink:
VardaToday at 5:43 PM
Exactly.
AnarionToday at 5:44 PM
Denethor: Maintain the status quo, keep the dangerous plan (ring) in storage until there is no other choice (even if it is too late). Aragorn/Elrond(/Pippin): Toss ourselves at the problem in an effort to provide the greatest chances of success. Theoden: Bring some relief to the problem, even if there is little hope of ultimate success
ArienValarToday at 5:45 PM
Elrond looked at past experiences too
AnarionToday at 5:45 PM
He had those to draw on
VardaToday at 5:45 PM
Worked with the White Council also.
ArienValarToday at 5:46 PM
and he learned from that experience .. .. and made sure the lesson was not in vain this time
VardaToday at 5:46 PM
I think Denethor wanted his sons to bring him the Ring so he could use it. They of course should give it up to him.
AnarionToday at 5:46 PM
I don't think that's true Varda
VardaToday at 5:46 PM
Good to hear. What do you figure?
ArienValarToday at 5:46 PM
he [Elrond] counselled the first time round already the ring be destroyed and when Elendil didn t do that and it failed .. the second time it cropped up Elrond did everything to make sure it would be this time
VardaToday at 5:47 PM
(I should probably reread Denethor's part.)
AnarionToday at 5:47 PM
IIRC in looking on the web Denethor wanted to hide the ring
Probably in a vault in Gondor
He said he wouldn't use it
VardaToday at 5:47 PM
He did want his sons to bring it to him, so he didn't understand how hard it would be to give it up.
ArienValarToday at 5:48 PM
i cant imagine he could have .. he either would have ended up deliveritng it to Sauron or taken it himself indeed
AnarionToday at 5:48 PM
Fair enough
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:48 PM
Giving it up isn't the same as hiding it away, though, especially if you're holding the key.
Though he might've gone all Bilbo and kept it in his pocket.
ArienValarToday at 5:49 PM
Bilbo noticed that .. almost too late how hard it was to give up the ring
VardaToday at 5:49 PM

“It should have been kept, hidden, hidden dark and deep. Not used, I say, unless at the uttermost end of need, but set beyond his grasp, save by a victory so final that what befell would not trouble us, being dead.”

ArienValarToday at 5:49 PM
But Frodo was the one who did it .. well again almost not .. in step Gollum
AnarionToday at 5:50 PM
Here's the quote btw:

'And the Lord Denethor what would he have done?'

'Neither. But most surely not for any argument would he have set this thing at a hazard beyond all but a fool's hope, risking our utter ruin, if the Enemy should recover what he lost. Nay, it should have been kept, hidden, hidden dark and deep. Not used, I say, unless at the uttermost end of need, but set beyond his grasp, save by a victory so final that what then befell would not trouble us, being dead.'
...'If I had this thing now in the deep vaults of this citadel, we should not then shake with dread under this gloom, fearing the worst, and our counsels would be undisturbed. If you do not trust me to endure the test, you do not know me yet.'

To be honest, that does not sound like Denethor was telling the whole truth
given what happened later
VardaToday at 5:52 PM
"uttermost need"? Interesting loophole.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:52 PM
It sounds like his intent, anyway.
And yes, like, when the Nazgul are standing in front of you :wink:
VardaToday at 5:52 PM
ok, "uttermost end of need" which of course only he would know what was. And then what?
AnarionToday at 5:52 PM
I imagine he'd've tried to weild it
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:53 PM
And in doing so, alert the enemy to his exact location.
AnarionToday at 5:53 PM
Not like that would have mattered, the city having been presumably fallen by that point
But what gets me about that passage is "if you do not trust me to endure the test, you do not know me..." when he did not in fact end up enduring
VardaToday at 5:53 PM
Know thyself, Denethor.
But that is very hard.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:54 PM
well, he never got the chance to endure the temptation of the ring, but a man of his arrogance.. it does not surprise me that he thought he would be able to
VardaToday at 5:54 PM
Hubris is a recurring theme.
AnarionToday at 5:55 PM
To this end Aragon's humility, and Theoden's stand out
VardaToday at 5:55 PM
True
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:55 PM
Everyone who thought he'd be able to master the Ring was, in fact, mistaken, except Sauron himself, and he had his own flaws and problems.
VardaToday at 5:56 PM
Frodo was only supposed to deliver the Ring. He was not expected to be able to destroy it. But he had lost most of the Fellowship that was supposed to be able to help with that.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:56 PM
And the one who did help with that, wasn't part of the Fellowship in the first place.
VardaToday at 5:57 PM
But he was under an oath to both Frodo and the Ring, and it got him in the end.

We hit the hour and are into the hour after that. Thank you all for coming, being so interesting, and being so patient. : )
the gavels run forward all trying to be first to the hammerpad
the hammerpad rolls and taps each one left to right
thonk thonk thonk thonk thonk
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After-meeting!
AnarionToday at 6:00 PM
;)
VardaToday at 6:00 PM
Free chat about anything. Even Tolkien and gaming!
ArienValarToday at 6:01 PM
Did Phari mention i met Menelvagor on Argent Dawn in WoW yesterday?
AnarionToday at 6:01 PM
He did mention something about Menelvagor
but was very unspecific
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 6:01 PM
I gave no details :smiley:
VardaToday at 6:01 PM
He said you saw him on Argent Dawn in WoW, but that's it.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 6:01 PM
Thought that was up to you.
ArienValarToday at 6:01 PM
ah fair enough
yeah he said he was back in game or on AD , i am not sure which , just yesterday
VardaToday at 6:02 PM
Nice : )
He seems to be on WoW right now.
ArienValarToday at 6:02 PM
yeah he is
i think heading out just now
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 6:24 PM
Hah, for the Heroes of the Storm event, I just unlocked a "late for class" Yrel spray... in keeping with the anime theme, wearing a school uniform and running with a piece of toast in her mouth.
I didn't realize that element was so common, but there's even a tv trope for it.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 6:33 PM
I'm also pretty sure I noticed something like that in one of the webcomics I gave you last week, Varda, though I can't remember which...
VardaToday at 6:33 PM
I find a lot of use of elements in fantasy too.
ArienValarToday at 6:35 PM
Namarie dear Valarites .. take some rest when you get to it :smiley:
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 6:35 PM
namarie!
VardaToday at 6:35 PM
Only 6:35pm here, but that's good advice!
Namarie
Sorry, only half an eye on the chat now. Misread Phar's.
ArienValarToday at 6:36 PM
waves goodbye
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 6:36 PM
With the toast!
ehr, mistell
VardaToday at 6:36 PM
Funny trope, liable to be common in rl too. ; )
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 6:37 PM
I don't think I've ever run to school with my breakfast in my mouth...
VardaToday at 6:37 PM
Me either. : )

Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 7:28 PM
Riiight. Personal gaming report.
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Flashgaming:
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 7:39 PM
http://www.onemorelevel.com/game/deep_worm is the first game! Not unlike similar but more cartoony games I've played before on kongregate, this is about playing a worm underground, and you have to dive up to take down enemies that try to kill you.
    Deep Worm - OneMoreLevel.com

http://www.onemorelevel.com/game/midnight_bakery for the second game, a short game where you take over a midnight bakery and have to bake stuff for mysterious nightly visitors. The choices you make decide what points you get, try to get the maximum! I got 20 out of 21 points but have not tried to see where I went wrong :wink:
    Midnight Bakery - OneMoreLevel.com
Still, fun, cute, no time pressure, and nice music. So enjoy!

https://www.kongregate.com/games/RoKo0/dream-car-racing-evo for the third game, a physics/sandbox/racing game where you construct and adapt your bike and race it along a course. I've not really gotten the hang of the building yet, but managed to grab the easy badge for this week; if construction is more your style, go give it a go :smiley:
    Kongregate
    Dream Car Racing Evo
    The official site: www.DreamCarRacing3D.com
    Design your own car and race it!
    Video: https://youtu.be/GC5hhE5gv9Q
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Blizzard gaming:
Heroes of the Storm:
Level 349, 2 levels gained. Level 6 on D.Va, and level 2 on Fenix which I tried for a lengthy brawl and am still quite bad at :wink:
Event still going, I'm at 47% of the quests now. Gotta keep going! Get all those rewards!
Oh, and there was a new featured mount up for 10000 gold that I didn't have yet, a more recent mount for the summer, I think. A Fel Razorgrin, some sort of fel-powered shark. So now I've got it!
Hearthstone:
still getting along, opened up some new card packs I'd gotten as rewards, including my first bunch from the new expansion. Among them my first legendary from that expansion, Archivist Elysiana, a card that completely replaces your deck when you play her, with 2 copies of 5 cards you discover. So a good way of replenishing your deck when it's almost fully gone :smiley:
Brawl this week is one with double turns for each player, really makes for some risky combos. Still, I played it somewhat safe and made a cheap spell deck that is mainly about hitting the opponent in the face with spells and buffing your minions in the process.
I say made, but I mean I grabbed a cheap deck from the internet and replaced a few cards I didn't have :wink:
Still, it worked!
WoW:
Still raidbreak. Preparations for patch, and first few days of the patch, so time well spent... for most of us :wink:
Prior to the patch's launch, I finally managed to make some time for the old 8.0 war campaign, getting the first 2 chapters done in Vol'dun and Nazmir.
After that I bought a few outposts, one for Nazmir and one for Zuldazar, and set those up. Useful flightpoints indeed, straight in the middle of nowhere but with some points of interest, and it saves me a lot of walking I had to do in the past.
Got a mission to upgrade one of them as well, with a fast crawg mount you can use to get around some good distance around the outpost, at a fast speed. It's called Spud, I think, and is quite useful :smiley:
And after that 8.2 came along, with the new zones, an introductory questline with a cinematic, and the introduction of some new features, including the base in Nazjatar and the Essence system for your Heart necklace. There's more stuff after that, but that's where I stopped for now; I still want to do some earlier stuff before I really get into Nazjatar and Mechagon.
But the necklace/essences are pretty important, since it allows me to start essence-gathering from other activities, and get me up to the point where I can raid better.
One in particular I'm looking at is a pvp-based essence, where the first rank requires a victory in a battleground, epic battleground and pvp island expedition. And with the weekly this week being battlegrounds, it was a pretty good idea to unlock the essence system and start the quest for that essence before I did the battlegrounds.
Which paid off! Got both my battleground wins for the quest, and one extra, and the weekly brawl, which was enough for the weekly quest.
The expedition isn't done yet, but we have plans to try for that tomorrow. And maybe get the expedition-based essence as well in the meantime, which is also quite nice for now :smiley:
Finally, more midsummer! Been collecting more blossoms from the Ahune worldboss, and I got all the new flames in Kul Tiras and Zandalar. New outposts were quite useful for that, especially since the Nazmir flame was in range of Spud-travel, so a good excuse to try him out :wink:
Still only halfway to the 300 blossoms I need for the new hearthstone toy, so in the next few days I'll travel the old world and see how many flames I'll have to visit to get to that total. I think clearing Kalimdor should be enough.
And that's my report for the week!

namarie!
VardaToday at 8:43 PM
Namarie
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