August 25, 2019 Sunday Meeting
5:00
P.M. Eastern time (-4 GMT aka 9 P.M. aka 21:00)
Discord:
Valar Guild/meeting_place
Back to News
Transcript work by Varda.
[times are in Central from Varda's Discord, so add one hour for
Eastern. Example: 4pm Central in the transcript is 5pm Eastern]
Attending (and
spoke): (4)
Discord:
Arien, Ar-Pharazon, Eonwe, Varda (presiding)
Before-meeting
Meeting begins
Membership news
Web:
Tolkien Site: this week's new story, a complete 6
chapter novel by Shirebound, put up Wednesday.
Gaming:
General reports from Eonwe: World of Warcraft,
World of WarCraft classic, Diablo 3, Lord of the Rings Online.
General kin report from Varda: Lord of the Rings
Online.
Tolkien:
Topic: JRRT is known for
his dislike of industry, yet he does seem to like building and
craftsmanship. Where can we look for examples to help us find his
dividing line?
What did he portray as really bad, and what did he seem to portray
as good in building, making things?
After-meeting:
Flashgaming Reviews by
Ar-Pharazon.
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Before-meeting
VardaToday at 4:00 PM
Aiya!
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:02 PM
Aiya!
VardaToday at 4:02 PM
Pharazon!
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:02 PM
That's me!
VardaToday at 4:02 PM
Yay!
Arien ValarToday at 4:03 PM
Aiya Valarites :slight_smile:
VardaToday at 4:03 PM
The sun shines!
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:03 PM
Aiya Arien!
Arien ValarToday at 4:03 PM
Aiya Phari :slight_smile:
How are you people?
VardaToday at 4:04 PM
Fabulous. That would be right considering our names.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:05 PM
Okay-ish, starting to recover from about a week of bad sleep :wink:
VardaToday at 4:05 PM
ewww. Maybe we should be careful not to run too overtime tonight.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:05 PM
Nah, it's fine. I get to wake up at 1 pm tomorrow.
Arien ValarToday at 4:08 PM
any idea why?
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:08 PM
Stuff on my mind, should be fine :slight_smile:
VardaToday at 4:09 PM
Ah hah! We have to take his mind off it! poke poke
Arien ValarToday at 4:09 PM
indeed
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VardaToday at 4:09 PM
Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
Membership:
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:09 PM
I'm currently browsing, in a discord meeting and playing 3 games at
once. I think that'll be fine!
VardaToday at 4:09 PM
We are in the process of making sure Phar has yet another thing to
distract him. : )
Arien ValarToday at 4:10 PM
multitasking :smile:
VardaToday at 4:10 PM
Web:
We have a new story this week from Shirebound, 6 chapters:
"Reflections of the Past". It is part of a batch that goes
along with the earlier "Quarantined" AU where Aragorn meets Frodo
early.
http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/fiction/authors/Shirebound/ReflectionsofthePast1.htm
Reflections of the Past chapter 1: A New Baggins
LotR-inspired stories: A new addition to Bag End
brings unexpected delight for tweenaged Frodo, minor headaches for
young Sam, and the discovery of an artifact from the First
Age that astonishes Aragorn.
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Gaming:
Eonwe says hi. : )
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:12 PM
Aiya Eonwe!
VardaToday at 4:12 PM
Eonwe ValarToday at 7:34 AM
Heya Varda. Gaming News up. Have fun :}
There's the copy paste from Discord. : )
And here's the work he left for us on the Gaming news:
World of Warcraft:
This week's Bonus Event: Battle For Azeroth Dungeons.
Arien ValarToday at 4:13 PM
Aiya Eonwe :slight_smile:
VardaToday at 4:13 PM
The PvP Brawl: Arathi Blizzard begins Aug. 20 and runs through
Tuesday, August 27th.
Check out this week's hotfixes.
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23036677/hotfixes-august-20-2019
World of Warcraft
Hotfixes: August 20, 2019 - WoW
Here you'll find a list of hotfixes that address
various issues related to World of Warcraft: Battle For Azeroth.
WoW Classic:
Excited for Classic? Check out World of Warcraft Classic Community
Resources.
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23090143/world-of-warcraft-classic-community-resources
World of Warcraft
World of Warcraft Classic Community Resources -
WoW
World of Warcraft Classic provides players the
opportunity to delve into a faithful recreation of the original WoW
experience, but no one has to go it alone.
Weve gathered together some of the best
resources from around the community to help.
Diablo 3:
Patch 2.6.6 is live.
https://us.diablo3.com/en/blog/23093788/patch-266-is-now-live-8-20-2019
Diablo III
Patch 2.6.6 is Now Live
Patch 2.6.6 is now live! Check inside for the
full patch notes.
Also going, Season 18.
https://us.diablo3.com/en/blog/23093786/season-18-the-season-of-the-triune-now-live-8-23-2019
Diablo III
Season 18: The Season of the Triune Now Live
Season 18 begins August 23, alongside the latest
Diablo III patch.
Read on to learn more about the all-new Season of
the Triune buff, the heap of brand-new Legendary powers, and handful
of crafted item reworks in store for Patch 2.6.6!
Lord of the Rings Online:
Update 24.2.2 came out this week.
https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?674884-Update-24-2-2-Release-Notes
Update 24.2.2 Release Notes
Here are the Release Notes for Update 24.2.2,
released on Wednesday, August 21st.
News and Notes:
Quests and Other Adventure Areas
Here's the kinmates that showed up in our three LotRO branches this
past week:
Landroval:
Arien
Bregalad
Elwing
Eonwe
Fangorn
Mirabella
Nar
Nimrodel
Varda
Ithil:
Dis
Fangorn
Varda
Anor:
Fangorn
Varda
Any other gaming news? Sightings of fellow Valarites while you were
gaming?
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:17 PM
let's see, Fladrif last online 6 days ago... so there's that!
VardaToday at 4:17 PM
Yay Ent!
Arien ValarToday at 4:18 PM
Helm i have seen :slight_smile:
and Fladrif on Bnet on and off
VardaToday at 4:19 PM
Yay Helm! Now how do we get to see him in our games or Discord or
the Tolkien Site? : )
Good that you both see Fladrif.
No Aragorn or others?
Arien ValarToday at 4:19 PM
not that i know off
Menel was on bnet last 2 months ago
so i hope he is okay
VardaToday at 4:21 PM
Thanks. I do see him on the side on the right.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:21 PM
So his computer is alive, at least!
VardaToday at 4:21 PM
Good to see that.
In LotRO , Mosby and I are still looking for more level
120's on LotRO to join in for T1's. Easier to find Tier2 and higher
than T1's.
Any other news, comments, suggestions on gaming or the Tolkien Site
or other?
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Tolkien:
An interesting link is for the LotRO Project. It started
as a family tree for Tolkien's characters, much as
Amillo/Elatan's did.
http://lotrproject.com/
The Lord of the Rings Family Tree Project
The complete family tree of all the creatures in
the Lord of the Rings and Tolkien's Middle Earth.
Also, I'm making an attempt to post a potential topic on our website
before the meeting, but so far it tends to be just before the
meeting. A lot of them are thought up while hearing our group
chat here. : )
I got to thinking about an oddity in JRRT's thinking, and where the
dividing line might be, so that's what you get today!
.
JRRT is known for his dislike of industry, yet
he does seem to like building and craftsmanship. Where can we look
for examples to help us find his dividing line?
What did he portray as really bad, and what did he seem to portray
as good in building, making things?
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:29 PM
Well, the hobbits and elves would incorporate nature into their
dwellings. Building in trees, digging in hills.
The humans that took over the Shire, however, dug up the hills and
chopped down the trees to make more industrialized homes instead.
Arien ValarToday at 4:33 PM
ent buildings were just nature really .. trees, two stones, a river
spring
beds made of stone
so i think i see a pattern there :slight_smile:
nature is portrayed as good .. nature in as created ... as soon as
somebody messes it up . aka takes it over it goes bad aka
industrialized
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:34 PM
Still, what's a brick if not a piece of stone used in building?
:wink:
Arien ValarToday at 4:35 PM
bricks are stone that has been meddled with :wink:
they have been manipulated to be used for building
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:36 PM
Well, when you think of elf or ent buildings where the trees have
been manipulated to form a roof...
VardaToday at 4:36 PM
Legolas seemed to think well of the buildings that he found the
stones of. "High they built us" he heard them say, for instance. An
elf can hear stones of a building?
True. Woodhall and Fangorn's home.
Gondolin as a city and the art there.
Arien ValarToday at 4:38 PM
well the use it is what makes it bad
VardaToday at 4:39 PM
As in if they make a tower of the moon that is a good watchtower but
is corrupted by Nazgul use?
Arien ValarToday at 4:39 PM
they can be used as shelter, protection, houses of healing , food
storage and so on .. but buildings can be used for weapon
production, for prisons or torture chambers , nature has to go
so new buildings can go up and yes Varda like that
for making weapons of mass destruction i mean
VardaToday at 4:40 PM
What kind of weapons of mass destruction did they have?
Arien ValarToday at 4:41 PM
they had siege towers, and catapults, they had bombs or something of
the kind ,. some form of explosives as we see during the Siege at
Helm;s deep
the catapults and siege towers get used at Minas Tirith
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:42 PM
and Grond :slight_smile:
VardaToday at 4:43 PM
The explosives seemed to be black powder from Saruman, used by the
orcs to blow a hole in the wall at the culvert.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:44 PM
Come to think of it, LotR is not the only fantasy world / story I
know where the invention of gunpowder was used as a sort of
gamechanging herald of more industrial technology.
Arien ValarToday at 4:45 PM
i don 't doubt Sauron had the use of black powder as well
VardaToday at 4:45 PM
The early mechanical dragons used as orc and balrog troop transport
were used in an evil way.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:45 PM
It's an important plot-point for the game Total Annihilation:
Kingdoms as well :wink:
Hmm, yes, mechanical dragons... would be interesting if that kind of
technology had persisted, even evolved over the following 6000
years.
VardaToday at 4:46 PM
Yet we don't see the use of black powder in Middle-earth outside
once in Helm's Deep versus the wall. Maybe because the wielders
needed for it were too primitive to handle it.
The mechanical dragons were dropped from the plot and organic
substituted, but gives an idea of JRRT's feelings.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:47 PM
Mechanization = evil :wink:
ardaToday at 4:47 PM
Genetic manipulation in a bad way as for making fell beasts, yet in
a good way in the mearas of Nahar's bloodline.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:47 PM
Mechanical dragons used as transport for people. I wonder if he got
the inspiration from trains.
VardaToday at 4:48 PM
Possible. I wonder how he felt about trains. Noisy, back then sent
out smoke.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:49 PM
Discworld, on the other hand, treated the invention of trains as a
good thing, encouraging communication between kingdoms and forming a
barrier against (evil) elves.
Interesting contrast.
Eonwe ValarToday at 4:49 PM
Heya all.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:49 PM
Aiya!
VardaToday at 4:49 PM
Eonwe! Aiya : )
We're in the Tolkien discussion, topic:
JRRT is known for his dislike of industry, yet he does seem to like
building and craftsmanship. Where can we look for examples to help
us find his dividing line?
What did he portray as really bad, and what did he seem to portray
as good in building, making things?
Ok, so in buildings, if the building is used for good, he likes it.
But if not, it's portrayed as evil. That doesn't really help us a
lot on figuring the dividing line.
Mechanization, as Phar said, seems evil. That could help us find the
dividing line.
Sandyman's mill isn't exactly bad, but Sandyman is.
Oh, in the Shire, bad buildings were the ugly ones put up instead of
regular hobbit holes.
Saruman's overuse of trees to run his equipment at Orthanc was bad.
Anything belching a lot of smoke seems to be undesirable.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:55 PM
makes sense
VardaToday at 4:55 PM
Maybe really noisy stuff, but that doesn't seem pushed.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:55 PM
unless it's a pipe
VardaToday at 4:55 PM
hah, right.
Small amount of pleasant smoke. At that time, it was not known that
it was dangerous to health.
Just soothing tobacco that one could make smoke rings with.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:56 PM
and a ship!
VardaToday at 4:57 PM
Ships, aye. Good ships like the Teleri swan ships. Ships used for
evil as in Corsair pirate ships.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:57 PM
I meant a smoke ship :slight_smile:
VardaToday at 4:57 PM
(and ship smoke rings, pardon zipping on with the ship thought)
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 4:57 PM
But you're right there as well :wink:
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:00 PM
Tolkien would seem to acknowledge that use of natural resources is
going to happen. When Yavanna was gloating that Aulė's "children"
(Dwarves) should watch out for her "children", all Aulė said was
"They'll still need wood."
VardaToday at 5:00 PM
Exactly. : )
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:01 PM
And yet, they lived in mountains.
Though I suppose they could use wood to support tunnels
:slight_smile:
VardaToday at 5:02 PM
Mountains are forested up to the cold zone. Wood is helpful in
making all manner of machinery, tools
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:02 PM
And above ground buildings, furnishing halls, chairs, etc.
For fires when they're travelling, and for their forges until/unless
they came across coal.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:03 PM
Hmhm.
VardaToday at 5:07 PM
So do we see any line of demarcation for where JRRT sees
industrialization and not industrialized? Is that the line of bad?
Or is it really use? If it's not industry, that disagrees with a lot
of online comments.
and books.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:08 PM
I suppose industry is a vague enough term in itself :slight_smile:
VardaToday at 5:09 PM
That's a good point. Where is the line between the time before and
after the industrial age?
Would it be making in mass instead of individually? Other?
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:10 PM
Steam is a popular division point. Though perhaps not in LotR.
VardaToday at 5:11 PM
The joy of steampunk fantasy. : )
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:11 PM
hehe
Arien ValarToday at 5:11 PM
Aiya Eonwe :slight_smile:
he had lots of pipes J. R. R.
VardaToday at 5:14 PM
My grandpa did too. : )
Arien ValarToday at 5:14 PM
i remember seeing some of them displayed at the edxhibition
VardaToday at 5:14 PM
It can happen because of presents or the different way they draw
air.
Briar vs Meerschaum (however that's spelled) for instance.
Arien ValarToday at 5:15 PM
aye .. i can remember Merry giving a pipe to Saruman was it or was
it Frodo and Sam providing the tobacco or something of the kind?
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:16 PM
I think Merry gave some tobacco, but he turned it down?
VardaToday at 5:16 PM
tobacco, and he took it. But since he was nasty about it Merry asked
for it back but Saruman kept it.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:16 PM
Ah.
Guess I gave him too much credit.
VardaToday at 5:17 PM
hehe
You'd think a Maia would be better!
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:17 PM
You'd think a Maia would keep his dignity.
VardaToday at 5:17 PM
Saruman seemed to think of the tobacco as stolen from him. He
possibly did pay for it
Kept his snark? : )
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:18 PM
Well, it's something.
VardaToday at 5:19 PM
heh
We have hit the hour and probably should give Arien and Phar a
chance to get in nap time before waking in the morning?
We didn't really seem to come to a conclusion, did we?
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:19 PM
I'm not going for hours :stuck_out_tongue: too much stuff to do
VardaToday at 5:20 PM
That will keep you from sleeping all right!
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:20 PM
Well, I don't have to get up until... about 13 hours from now.
VardaToday at 5:22 PM
What conclusion about JRRT and industry do you think we can draw?
Use? Industry itself?
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:23 PM
Bit of both, so it seems.
VardaToday at 5:23 PM
What makes it seem as if JRRT doesn't like industry?
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:23 PM
The method, the cost, and the intent.
Well, industry seems mostly used by the evil factions, and at great
cost to nature.
VardaToday at 5:24 PM
Did we ever figure out what "industry" was?
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:25 PM
I guess the closest would be something like mass mechanical
production of sorts.
VardaToday at 5:26 PM
So it would be the use of factories, perhaps?
Guess that matches.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:26 PM
For example, yes.
VardaToday at 5:27 PM
Mass making instead of individual. It does make a lot more items
available to a lot more people, but needs to be done in a thoughtful
way. I think that's kind of what we're seeing, but I may be
reading into it.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:28 PM
Sounds about right.
VardaToday at 5:28 PM
Wanted your takes on it.
We still need wood, but we don't have to be ugly about it. : )
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:29 PM
Let's use wisps!
VardaToday at 5:29 PM
heh. Ask the wisps if that's a good idea?
That would be prettier though!
Like the spiral around a tree with a blue light? : )
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:30 PM
Well, I mean, wisps in Warcraft harvest lumber without killing the
tree.
Could be useful.
VardaToday at 5:30 PM
Tricky.
a gavel uses gears and a rubber strap to push along wheels to
ride on
the hammerpad tumps over the precarious contraption
thummmpity!
duty done if not as intended, the gavel rights the thing and
heads back to the shelf
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After-meeting!
Free chat.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:33 PM
Right. Quick daily SCII match and then I'll give my gaming news
:slight_smile:
VardaToday at 5:34 PM
We might be seeing Rohirric housing coming up in LotRO. : )
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:34 PM
I bet those won't be set up industrially.
VardaToday at 5:36 PM
Mass Rohirric housing!
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:37 PM
Little boxes, on the hillside ♪
Eonwe ValarToday at 5:41 PM
Time for me to be off. Take care all, good night, sleep well, and
have fun!
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:41 PM
Namarie!
VardaToday at 5:41 PM
Namarie!
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:44 PM
This new terran unit skin set from the war chest is really shiny.
VardaToday at 5:44 PM
Anyway, the Rohirric housing seems to be a rumor at this point,
something that was being considered but maybe not going to be
implemented.
We'll see.
The Belfalas housing is probably hard to top. : )
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 5:45 PM
hehe
Arien ValarToday at 6:03 PM
i like the Rohirrim houses
i d like them :slight_smile:
VardaToday at 6:04 PM
Me too. Would be fun to have as an extra house, like the ones in
Bree, Celondim, Thorin's, and the hobbit area.
Wouldn't have to be super duper premium housing. : )
Arien ValarToday at 6:07 PM
aye :slight_smile:
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Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 6:15 PM
Personal gaming report!
Let's start with some flashgaming.
https://www.kongregate.com/games/JuicyBeast/burrito-bison
is the first game! First in a series of classic upgrade games, you
launch the bison from an arena into gummy bear land, jumping on
enemies to take revenge for them capturing you, upgrading a ton of
stuff each attempt, and finally making it through the door out of
candy land.
Kongregate
Burrito Bison
Burrito Bison is a fun and simplistic game with
an original twist that refreshes the already popular tossing game
genre. Launch Burrito Bison as far as you can...
https://www.kongregate.com/games/bontegames/sugar-sugar-the-christmas-special
for the second game, draw lines to get the sugar into the cups. One
of quite a few games in the series, but christmas themed :wink:
Kongregate
Sugar, Sugar, the Christmas special
Draw and get enough sugar in the cups!
24 brand new levels in Christmas style!
(note: draw steeper lines to make the sugar fall
faster)
Arien ValarToday at 6:24 PM
Namarie for now :slight_smile:
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 6:24 PM
namarie!
Arien ValarToday at 6:24 PM
time for the sun to go to bed
Namarie
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 6:24 PM
It needs to be up early again tomorrow :wink:
Arien ValarToday at 6:25 PM
luckily not but .. i usually still get up at eight :wink:
off tomorrow and tuesday
o/
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 6:29 PM
https://www.kongregate.com/games/Pseudolonewolf/clarences-big-chance
for the last game, really silly and probably offensive, but see if
you like it.
Kongregate
Clarence's Big Chance
Clarence has never been on a date in his 35 years
of life. But today that changes!
He must run and jump around four large levels,
collecting items to impress t...
Platformer. You play a rather.. unpleasant little man who has a date
for the first time in his life, and you have lots of tasks to
complete, information to gather, coins to collect, and humorous
situations to platform through.
Several endings possible, for the best one you have to collect
nearly all the coins as well as the information needed for the date.
Pretty big game, but unlimited lives and plenty of save spots.
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 6:57 PM
Blizzard gaming:
Starcraft II:
More work on the new war chest, 3 tiers unlocked now. Should only be
3 more matches to finish 4 and 5, at which point I can pause and
wait for second phase of the chest.
Heroes of the Storm:
Still just going along, no new levels, still at 363 :slight_smile:
Hearthstone:
hunter at 59 now, though if any others will make it to 59 next week
I don't know.
Brawl is an interesting one, the Great Amalgamation; all minions
count as elementals, mechs, demons, murlocs, dragons, beasts,
pirates and totems... so basically all creature types.
Got through rather easily with a shaman deck combining mech, murloc
and totem benefits to make a rather too powerful early board
:slight_smile:
WoW:
More heroic progress, with Orgozoa, the fifth boss, in the eternal
palace raid.
Along the way, I got the raid tanking essence to rank 3; after
getting your first to rank 3, the other roles' essences become a lot
cheaper. So I've also gotten the first rank of the dps essence from
the raid.
Also got the mythic dungeon tanking essence to rank 3, through the
weekly chest reward. So now both my current tanking essences are at
3. And considering rank 4 (the cosmetic only rank) requires mythic
Azshara for one and keystone master for the other, I think rank 3 is
where they'll stay :slight_smile:
Weekly is mythic dungeons, but not much news there. Just a few quick
dungeons done.
Brawl, however, was quite successful. Through it I got the
Battlefield Brawler achievement, for getting 15000 honor from brawls
and battlegrounds. Which got me access to rank 2 of all the
battleground essences, so I upgraded all 3 :slight_smile:
Rank 3, however, takes 50000. So that'll take a while longer!
And finally, a new mount! I scraped 500 dubloons together from
island expeditions, and bought the saltwater seahorse.
And that's all, unfortunately. I said I'd get a few pets if this
week wasn't as busy, but... it kinda was pretty busy. Trying again
next week!
And that's my report for the week!
Ar-Pharazon-VToday at 8:53 PM
namarie!
VardaToday at 9:32 PM
Namarie
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