Valar Guild

June 14, 2015 Sunday Meeting

5pm EDT (UTC/GMT - 5)

AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by Ar-Pharazon and Varda.

Attending: (4)
    AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Indis-(V)/karakedi25, VardaValar1 (presiding)

Before-meeting
Meeting begins
Membership:
Web:
    Tolkien Site: new art from the Bohemian Weasel-(T)
    Games Site: new review for Heroes of the Storm; news for games
Gaming
Tolkien:
    Topic: Christopher Lee aka Saruman in the movies.
    Topic 2: Tolkien Site trivia FAQ. A few comments by us.
    Discussion Topic: The rise and fall of Saruman.
After-meeting:
    Gaming
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Before-meeting
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: We didn't have a time change did we? Aiya )
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
ArPharazonV: Nope, no time change, just thought I'd get here when raid ended early.
AriehnV: Aiya there :-)
AriehnV: hu all here already eh?
VardaValar1: Good to see you both. :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya both!
AriehnV: i was thinking as well , since i am here i come in then Phara doesnt have to call me ;-)
AriehnV: Aiya you two !
VardaValar1: Being early has its perks.
AriehnV: indeed
ArPharazonV: Well, bought Abathur this afternoon, so I'll try him out in a training match before meeting starts. The guy's supposed to be really difficult.
VardaValar1: Might keep him interesting longer then. :-)
ArPharazonV: Indeed :-)
ArPharazonV: Well that was fun. And interesting.
VardaValar1: So you're back now. :-)
ArPharazonV: Can lay down mines anywhere, periodically summons small minions and main function is to boost any other hero of your choice with a range of abilities.
VardaValar1: Good to hear it was fun!
ArPharazonV: But it'll be tough to make it worth having one less hero in the middle of the action.
ArPharazonV: Abathur's gonna take some practice!
VardaValar1: More than a one-time ho-hum, see the next one now, then. :-)
ArPharazonV: Oh, definitely.
AriehnV: who is Abathur?
ArPharazonV: Abathur is a specialist-class hero in Heroes of the Storm, and comes from the Starcraft II: Heart of the Swarm expansion, as an evolution specialist.
ArPharazonV: Bit expensive, 10k gold, but I was saving up for him :-)
VardaValar1: Invited everyone I could find
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VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Membership:
VardaValar1: Fangorn and Sauron say hi. :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
VardaValar1: Any other membership comments?
AriehnV: Aiya you two :-)
AriehnV: nothing new really from me
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VardaValar1: Web:
VardaValar1: Tolkien Site:
VardaValar1: We could use a ton of articles. I should get on that too.
VardaValar1: Art:
VardaValar1: From the Bohemian Weasel-(T):
VardaValar1: The Pass of Caradhras:
VardaValar1: http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/art/gallery/BohemianWeasel/characters/Fellowship/lotr-c ard-2014-caradhras.jpg
VardaValar1: as the Fellowship tries to cross it.
VardaValar1: A bored Pippin tosses a rock in a well starting up a Doom Doom chorus of enemy drumming. Gandalf is not pleased.
VardaValar1: http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/art/gallery/BohemianWeasel/characters/Pippin/EmlFool OfATook.jpg
VardaValar1: Gandalf also takes issue with the Balrog of Moria's misbehavior:
VardaValar1: http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/art/gallery/BohemianWeasel/characters/Gandalf/soni-top ps-lotrm2-116_Gandalf_Balrog_cannot_pass.jpg
ArPharazonV: Throw yourself in next time, and rid us of your stupidity!
VardaValar1: http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/art/gallery/BohemianWeasel/characters/Gandalf/soni-top ps-lotrm2-116b_Gandalf_wielder_of_the_flame_of_Anor.jpg
VardaValar1: http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/art/gallery/BohemianWeasel/characters/Balrog/soni-topp s-lotrm2-117_flame_of_Udun.jpg
VardaValar1: A bit of trivia that you probably already know. Udun is in Mordor, northwest part.
karakedi25 has entered the room.
karakedi25: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya Indis
VardaValar1: That's what he's referring to when Gandalf says
VardaValar1: ‘The dark fire will not avail you..Flame of Udūn!
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
VardaValar1: We were just mentioning the latest pictures from the Bohemian Weasel-(T) for our site.
ArPharazonV: I remember looking up Udun, yes :-)

VardaValar1: The Games Site updated early, yesterday, because Eonwe put up a review. Phar might especially find it interesting as it is for Heroes of the Storm.
AriehnV: scary that Balrog
ArPharazonV: Ah, will check it out.
VardaValar1: Any of you may send in a review of a game you've played with your comments. Surprising how few reviews we have of games we play a lot.
VardaValar1: http://valarguild.org/gaming
VardaValar1: His latest review is in his news section, and you can find more in the bar at the top under Reviews:
    Interested in my take on Heroes of the Storm? See Eonwe's new review.
VardaValar1: LotRO and WoW could use reviews.
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VardaValar1: Gaming:
VardaValar1: from the Valar Guild Games Site. Feel free to add in your own general news extras.
VardaValar1: WoW:
VardaValar1: Were you one of the players eager to get flying in Draenor? Good news: it's coming!
VardaValar1: Warlords PvP season 1 is ending soon.
VardaValar1: We've got some previews here: one for the shipyard and one for the next tier armor sets.
ArPharazonV: Hmm, good review, that was. Good information about the game as well, I'm sure he brought up some things that I missed last week.
VardaValar1: There's also the Timewalking highlight on The Arcatraz.
VardaValar1: Feel free to make one of your own and email it to him. More perspectives are always welcome.
VardaValar1: StarCraft 2:
VardaValar1: New preview of the next Legacy of the Void Balance Update.
VardaValar1: Hearthstone:
VardaValar1: A new mode of play is coming: Tavern Brawl.
VardaValar1: (That reminds me of the one in LotRO in the dwarves' tavern. We see it in many festivals.)
VardaValar1: LotRO:
VardaValar1: The Spring Festival is going.
VardaValar1: Gorlim and I have been running characters through the final Osgiliath instances, as well as joining into a lot of other instances. Also, Dol Amroth instances may now be collected in larger numbers to do.
VardaValar1: Any other gaming comments, business, suggestions?
ArPharazonV: Also mentioning that Hearthstone is getting new heroes, alternative class-heroes with fresh animations etc, which will need to be purchased with real money.
ArPharazonV: So far, Muradin (warrior), Medivh (mage) and Alleria (hunter) have been revealed.
ArPharazonV: Muradin had already been announced last week but I thought I'd mention the others.
ArPharazonV: Yeah, that's it for now :-)
VardaValar1: Thanks.
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VardaValar1: Tolkien:

VardaValar1: Christopher Lee has passed on to the West, the actor that played Saruman among a great many other roles.
VardaValar1: He will be missed.
ArPharazonV: Hmm, sad to hear, but he got to a good age. And I daresay that he'll live on in his numerous roles for a long, long time.
VardaValar1: He lived to 93, active in many things, well-respected to the end, and will be remembered with honor. And aye, he left a legacy we'll continue to enjoy a long time.
ArPharazonV: That is all anyone could ever hope for :-)
AriehnV: sad to hear .. journey well , Sir Christopher
AriehnV: i am sure he will be welcomed by a due comittee that pays his achievement respect :-)
VardaValar1: Aye to that
VardaValar1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Lee

VardaValar1: On a different note, here's an interesting FAQ put out by the Tolkien Society:
VardaValar1: It handles those questions that we hear so often:
VardaValar1: http://www.tolkiensociety.org/author/faq/
VardaValar1: For a discussion topic, how about the rise and fall of Saruman?
ArPharazonV: Huh. I hadn't heard the question about Legolas' hair before, but otherwise it's a good list.
VardaValar1: I've heard that one about the hair a lot of times. I come down on the blond side because his father's hair is stated as blond. The dark has no basis, as it comes from when he was silhouetted against the stars.
VardaValar1: That's my opinion, for what it's worth. :-)
VardaValar1: You'll find many in the dark-haired camp. :-)
ArPharazonV: Well, there was something about blond only being present in the house of Finarfin, but if his father's already confirmed..
VardaValar1: It's a fun list to go through and think about.
VardaValar1: That referred to the Noldor elves.
VardaValar1: We know the Vanyar elves were blond.
VardaValar1: Amroth and Thranduil are known blonds among the Sindar.
VardaValar1: Thingol's hair turned silver after being around Melian, and it showed up in others who may have been in his line.
VardaValar1: Galadriel had that blonde/silver mix.
VardaValar1: Tolkien's stories can get us going in the most tiny trivia, just that detailed, inferred, and fun. Full of complications.
VardaValar1: He *never* says what color hair Legolas has.
ArPharazonV: Such lack of detail ;-)
VardaValar1: hehehe - it's a tease
VardaValar1: We don't even know for sure his mother is Sindarin, probably is, but since they went native it's possible that she was Silvan.
ArPharazonV: He might be Calion's second cousin.
VardaValar1: It's mostly important to those trying to draw the characters.
VardaValar1: Never know. :-)
VardaValar1: It's like when Ulmo-Valar tried to sculpt a balrog. Was he supposed to show wings or not?
VardaValar1: We can slide around it in text, but artists have a rougher time.
ArPharazonV: Would be a marvellous sculpture if it would only show wings if you put it under the light and they'd show up as a shadow.
VardaValar1: Another thing is that although a number of Maiar and Valar could fly when they first arrived in Arda, the evil ones lost the ability over time.
VardaValar1: So even if the Balrog had wings, they may not have worked.
VardaValar1: Manwe and Varda and their folk could still fly, others could not.
ArPharazonV: Flap around like a chicken.
karakedi25: That's because they gave up so much of their general power to obtain inappropriate power. Morgoth is the prime example.
VardaValar1: True too
VardaValar1: Morgoth was giving out his power to minions, making them more powerful. He also put a lot of his power into the earth itself, thus Arda became Morgoth's Ring.
karakedi25: exactly

VardaValar1: The original topic offered was the rise and fall of Saruman.
VardaValar1: How did Saruman as we of Arda knew him, begin in Arda?
ArPharazonV: Hmm. Was he one of Aule's Maiar, similar to Sauron?
ArPharazonV: I might be mistaken.
ArPharazonV: Makes me wonder if he might've been buddies with Sauron in particular, before it all went wrong.
VardaValar1: Saruman was indeed a Maia of Aule. He may well have known Sauron.
VardaValar1: This may be why he was good at Ring craft.
VardaValar1: Being a Maia of Aule, he would be an excellent crafter. He was important to the Council for his Ring knowledge. He also liked the idea of being a leader.
VardaValar1: This desire for leadership was not what he was supposed to do. All the Istari were supposed to be advisors, training the free people on how to fend for themselves with a little hidden help.
ArPharazonV: He was still appointed leader of the Istari, though, right?
VardaValar1: Gandalf as Olorin was already expert in giving encouragement to elves unseen.
VardaValar1: He (Saruman) considered himself leader.
VardaValar1: Gandalf seems to have considered him leader.
VardaValar1: "head of his order"
ArPharazonV: Right.
VardaValar1: Saruman was displeased early on when Gandalf was included. Gandalf considered himself the least, but Varda said he was not the least. Seemed pretty definite about it, and worried Saruman.
VardaValar1: Saruman took the two Blue Wizards, Alatar and Pallando, to the east. They may have sown discontent among men with Sauron's rule, cutting down the number he could use to attack with.
VardaValar1: They may have set up cults to do this, not the way they were supposed to go about it.
VardaValar1: They stayed over there, leaving Saruman without their interference.
ArPharazonV: Cue Saruman rubbing his hands with glee as he returns.
VardaValar1: Radagast was more interested in what was happening to the fauna, that had no one to speak for them.
VardaValar1: Right. :-)
VardaValar1: Gandalf refused leadership so that he could travel and be about the business assigned to the Istari.
VardaValar1: That left Saruman free to be the only Istari candidate for any leadership.
karakedi25: Galadriel proposed Gandalf for head of the council, much to Saruman's displeasure.
AriehnV: hmm those rabbits seemed pretty fast in the movie *nods* i loved that scene
AriehnV: very humorous Radagast weelding the whip and weee.. zig zagging away
AriehnV: sorry ..*blushes* off topic *zips mouth*
ArPharazonV: I'm sure Saruman would not approve of such forms of transport ;-)
VardaValar1: Saruman, serious fuddy duddy?
ArPharazonV: Too undignified!
VardaValar1: The Rabbits of Rhosghobel fitted a children's book, although it was a PJ invention.
AriehnV: yeah indeed .. Saruman seemed of the "no fun* sort of guys :-)
VardaValar1: My irritation with it was running the orcs back around to the dwarves so often, but he may have done it to help Gandalf herd the dwarves to Rivendell.
VardaValar1: I found funny the blah blah blah of Saruman going on as Galadriel and Gandalf did a side chat telepathically. PJ stuff, but good.
VardaValar1: Ok, back to JRRT. :-)
ArPharazonV: Because it doesn't matter how often we put them in mortal danger, if it helps to get them to their destination faster?
VardaValar1: Ahh, they'll be fine! ;-)
VardaValar1: Lots of dwarves. So we lose one or two, who'll notice?
VardaValar1: /ducks Frali's axe.
ArPharazonV: Hehe. 13's an unlucky number anyway, can stand to make it 12.
VardaValar1: Saruman may have meant well to start. More or less. He wanted to help put down Sauron.
VardaValar1: He tried to make his own rings. He tried to take the One Ring for himself, and that would have been a twisted way of stopping Sauron and doing his mission.
VardaValar1: He finally got caught in his own twistiness and became an actual pawn of Sauron, whether he could truly see it or not.
VardaValar1: When did he start losing the power he was trying so hard to build up?
ArPharazonV: He never really trusted Sauron in the end, though, and I can imagine he wouldn't have minded being rid of Sauron, but for now he might as well make use of him.
ArPharazonV: Well, I suppose, when he started treating his allies differently, keeping secrets from them, starting hostilities against them.
ArPharazonV: He thought he didn't need the Council anymore, but when he turned the forces of good against him, he found out he wasn't as prepared as he thought.
VardaValar1: He stopped being able to keep his machinations secret.
ArPharazonV: It all got too big to hide.
VardaValar1: Imprisoning Gandalf on top of Orthanc was telling.
VardaValar1: He wasn't supposed to escape. But Radagast didn't know that Saruman and Gandalf were at odds, sent Gandalf's message along and Gwaihir came by, not expecting to be a steed but stuck with it.
ArPharazonV: Taking down swathes of Fangorn didn't help either.
VardaValar1: Fangorn's ents were slow to anger, but Merry and Pippin held a match to them and they heated up.
VardaValar1: Together, they were stronger than Saruman and trapped him in his tower.
VardaValar1: That alone wasn't enough. What else happened?
VardaValar1: Everyone is welcome to comment; you don't have to leave it all to Phar. :-)
VardaValar1: Voice, staff.
ArPharazonV: Well, Saruman had his most trusty weapon still... but in the end it availed him not, as the Ents still kept him locked in his tower for a while after.
VardaValar1: He used his voice for authority, making it lose part of the persuasive ability, although as Frodo noted it still had some power right to the end.
VardaValar1: Gandalf the White broke Saruman's staff from a distance, to make him no longer head of the order. This implies strongly that Gandalf became head as the new White Wizard.
ArPharazonV: Saruman can't have been happy about that.
ArPharazonV: Usurped!
VardaValar1: The staff seems to have been some kind of power conduit, perhaps.
VardaValar1: He still had his Voice, even lessened, and persuaded Fangorn to let him go. No staff, therefore safe, right? :-)
VardaValar1: He took revenge on the Hobbits, so their home would be a wreck when they returned. And it was a favorite resting spot for Gandalf.
ArPharazonV: So spiteful.
VardaValar1: Frodo turned him out of the Shire, exiled.
VardaValar1: Then what happened to finally finish Saruman?
ArPharazonV: Pushing Wormtongue over the edge.
ArPharazonV: After Frodo offered to pardon him.
VardaValar1: Said Grima killed Lotho, ate him.
VardaValar1: Grima said Saruman told him to.
VardaValar1: Saruman said you always do what Saruman tells him to do.
VardaValar1: So Grima lost his hope of a place to stay and rest with some dignity. Stuck on the road with a guy that kicked him and called him a worm.
VardaValar1: Snapped and stabbed Saruman. Four archer hobbits shot Grima.
VardaValar1: But that's not all. :-) Saruman was a Maia. What happened to him next?
ArPharazonV: If I recall, his corpse withered and his spirit turned into mist that blew away?
VardaValar1: This is open book, folks, and not a test. :-)
VardaValar1: Right, Phar!
VardaValar1: A bit more detail
VardaValar1: The mist became a humanoid form that seemed to look towards the West.
karakedi25: his end was quite similar to Sauron's
VardaValar1: A cold wind came out of the West as if in answer and blew the misty form to formlessness.
VardaValar1: Aye to that, Indis.
ArPharazonV: At least there's consistency!
VardaValar1: Once again, a lesser copy of Sauron. No greatness.
VardaValar1: As he lived, so he died.
VardaValar1: Unless there are any more comment? *hefts hammer*
VardaValar1: *comments even
VardaValar1: *boomandwhango!*
VardaValar1: *ground stops shaking*
VardaValar1: Hmm, that was a good one.
VardaValar1: *places the hammer very carefully back on the shelf*
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VardaValar1: After-meeting!
VardaValar1: Free chat.
ArPharazonV: Allright! Personal gaming.
ArPharazonV: Flashgames for this week:
ArPharazonV: Let's start with! http://www.kongregate.com/games/bontegames/sugar-sugar-3 A physics puzzler which requires you to draw obstacles and barriers to funnel sugar into the appropriate cups.
ArPharazonV: Third in the series, I've always liked the previous ones as well, and this one seems to have a few new features!
ArPharazonV: And I'll follow it up with http://www.kongregate.com/games/ArmorGames/shore-siege A short defense and repair game, not too difficult, wherein you play a stranded pirate crew on a ship that faces some rather unusual enemies.
ArPharazonV: What else...
ArPharazonV: Diablo 3! Played another 2 sets of bounties with the monk this weekend, got him all the way to level 50, so 20 more to go! Got a few good upgrades this time around, more than doubling my damage, making him rather easier and faster to play again. I wonder how long that will last!
ArPharazonV: Hearthstone: Still going smoothly, couple of new cards, closing in on the next level for all my classes; especially those that lagged behind got a chance to catch up again this week.
ArPharazonV: Heroes of the Storm: Made good use of the week-long stimpack, especially on the last few hours of its duration, yesterday afternoon. In fact, I got level 20 from the last match that had the stimpack, so from 10 to 20 took me exactly a week.
ArPharazonV: As a result I got the new World of Warcraft pet as a reward, very cute (if a bit ugly) and enough gold to buy Abathur, as I mentioned earlier in the meeting!
ArPharazonV: With Abathur, my first Starcraft-based hero, I'm now set for all the possible dailies.
ArPharazonV: Looking forward to trying him over the week, unless the daily quests force me to play other heroes :-)
ArPharazonV: Now I just need to wait until they implement the cardback-mount in Storm for winning 100 Hearthstone matches, and I'll have all the cross-promotion rewards.
ArPharazonV: Wow:
ArPharazonV: New pet, as mentioned! Graves, a small grave golem that found its way to Azeroth from Heroes of the Storm.
ArPharazonV: Only new pet, too; we got a few new pets on our monday runs but as I recall, we all had them already. The missing ones don't want to show yet!
ArPharazonV: I didn't spend much time questing because Storm kept me busy, but I did manage to find a follower I was missing from the Smuggler-ability exclusive to the Spires of Arak-zone, so there's some progress.
ArPharazonV: Oh, and I also got the last Harrison Jones quest done, also gaining *him* as another follower.
ArPharazonV: With some unique abilities, very good to have :-)
ArPharazonV: As for raiding, we've got heroic Blackrock Foundry pretty much on farm. Blackhand can take some tries still, but for two weeks in a row now we have cleared the place on heroic within 2 of our 3 raid-days.
ArPharazonV: Which leaves the third day open for our first Mythic attempts.
ArPharazonV: Not much success there last tuesday but we'll see if the next one will do any better :-)
ArPharazonV: And yes, I think that's it for me!
AriehnV: congratulations on your achievements!
ArPharazonV: Thank you!
VardaValar1: Grats Phar :-)
VardaValar1: Sauron has been on EVE Online with Gimli, said he's spotted Arien
VardaValar1: StarCraft/BroodWar: Fangorn, Sauron, and Varda
VardaValar1: Pathfinder: Sauron, Gimli, Varda and friends.
VardaValar1: Ancalagon dropped by LotRO, playing lots of games.

karakedi25: Time to log out. My beorning just finshed the West Rohan grind, so I'm going to take it easy for the rest of the evening.
karakedi25: Namarie!
VardaValar1: Namarie
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
VardaValar1: Grats :-)
ArPharazonV: And grats!
karakedi25: hehe, Varda knows what an achievement that is
VardaValar1: Way to go. :-)
ArPharazonV: That long, eh?
karakedi25: long, grueling, and requires all but a few quests to get the character building trait points
karakedi25: ok, take care all...dinner time
VardaValar1: Bon appetit
karakedi25: merci
karakedi25 has left the room.
AriehnV: Namarie all :-)
AriehnV: bed time for me
VardaValar1: Sleep well :-)
AriehnV: Thank you ! you too when you get to it in a few hours ;-)
AriehnV has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
VardaValar1: Thanks :-)
ArPharazonV: So close.
VardaValar1: Yay for transcripts!
ArPharazonV: saving and sending transcript
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