Valar Guild

April 28, 2013 Sunday Meeting

5pm EDT (UTC - 5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by
Ar-Pharazon and Varda.

Attending: (5)
    Arien-(Valar)/AriehnV, ArPharazonV, EonweValar, farmermaggotv, VardaValar1 (presiding)

Meeting begins
    Topic: What sort of economic system was in use in Middle-earth
    Topic on the Side: The Rangers and how they lived.
    Phar finds an illustration for the concept of the Roman money chains, well, sort of.

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya - plenty of time, just popping in early.
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
ArPharazonV: same
VardaValar1: Thanks for being here. : )
ArPharazonV: Got my 30 max level pets achievement, which means I've got the best trap available, so just hunting pets again in the meantime :-)
VardaValar1: Nice!
AriehnV has entered the room.
AriehnV: huh what is that ^^
ArPharazonV: What?
VardaValar1: Arien, aiya. :-)
ArPharazonV: And Aiya :-)
AriehnV: aiya :-) that ... three early :-D
VardaValar1: We're just early, no worries.
VardaValar1: Yay for us. : )
VardaValar1: Elwing says hi!
ArPharazonV: Hi Elwing!
AriehnV: hi Elwing :-)
AriehnV: hello from Eregion :-)
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya
VardaValar1: Aiye Eonwe :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
AriehnV: Aiya Eonwe :-)
farmermaggotv has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Farmer :-)
farmermaggotv: aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya!

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Membership:
VardaValar1: Elwing says hi, still needs to re-install AIM.
VardaValar1: Bilbo's computer has a nasty virus eating up everything, and we're taking it in for repair tomorrow we hope.
ArPharazonV: Just invited Flad, not sure if he's there or afk.
VardaValar1: Sauron's new monitor seems to have a broken on/off button, as if intermittently getting power.
VardaValar1: Fladrif may have so many invites that AIM may get all crossed up. ;-)
ArPharazonV: hehe
VardaValar1: Any other membership news?
ArPharazonV: Sounds like a power issue for.. Sauron.. well, that fits, doesn't it?
VardaValar1: Pallando's birthday was Monday.
ArPharazonV: adapter, maybe?
VardaValar1: hehe - I'll pass that comment on to him.
VardaValar1: It was working until last night. Tried it on another computer too. The screen sort of goes grayish like its trying to come on and then goes off, in time with the light on the power button.
VardaValar1: At least it's in warranty.
VardaValar1: Any other membership news?

VardaValar1: Web:
VardaValar1: For those who haven't seen Fladrif's photos of New Zealand on the LotR tour, including Hobbiton:

VardaValar1: Gaming:
VardaValar1: Any non-WoW, non-LotRO gaming or news this past week?
VardaValar1: Star Wars The Old Republic was popular with Sauron and Bilbo until their computers cratered.
ArPharazonV: Oh, bit of flashgaming, nothing much.
VardaValar1: I need to remember to drop in on the Diablo 3 crowd, oops.

VardaValar1: WoW:
VardaValar1: A new patch is in development for 5.3 called "Escalation"
VardaValar1: hmm, might need that link worked on
AriehnV: data has been downloading already
VardaValar1: Amusingly, Hellscream is kicking the Darkspear Trolls out of Orgrimmar now that Valar has a troll "guildmaster" on our Horde side.
VardaValar1: True, thanks Arien. :-)
AriehnV: I have been reading up on my Lore and yea .. looks like Garrosh has gone quite (power) mad
fladrifv has left the room.
VardaValar1: A pity.
fladrifv has left the room.
VardaValar1: *kicks him out*
AriehnV: sounds somehow familiar .. first the titans , then the dragon (s) and now Garrosh
ArPharazonV: Feh. Garrosh has been a powerhungry maniac since he came to Azeroth.
VardaValar1: Ooops, maybe I better find someone else to take over the power if it's contagious!
ArPharazonV: Putting him in charge just made it worse.
VardaValar1: Just can't satisfy power-hunger.
Eonwe Valar: The titans didn't go power mad...
AriehnV: well mad tho
Eonwe Valar: Sargeras was one titan that went evil because he lost the mission.
VardaValar1: *puts up sign: Mission That-a-way!*
Eonwe Valar: We don't know enough about the others to judge them, except that they're after "Order," as vague as that is.
ArPharazonV: And the other Titans have always been obsessed with order and frowning upon Old God corruption, so nothing new there either.
AriehnV: and Thrall did what he thought best .. he thought that putting him in charge would keep the Horde together since he is and was a charismatic character .. now where in history did that happen before ^^
VardaValar1: Several times. Never ended well.
AriehnV: and poor Thjrall had himself in fits of doubts over it
AriehnV: and self blaming
Eonwe Valar: Well there was this one guy where it ended pretty well...
AriehnV: anyway carry on :-) i digress hehe
AriehnV: Varian eh? and Anduin .. he always was too wise for his age
ArPharazonV: Was? He's not dead yet.
AriehnV: okay he is too wise for his age
AriehnV: agreed
Eonwe Valar: I wouldn't call Anduin wise, just young.
ArPharazonV: Though he didn't get through patch 5.2 all that well ;-)
ArPharazonV: Naivety is unrealistic wisdom ;-)
VardaValar1: Phar, you had some pet news? :-)
ArPharazonV: Oh! Sure. Got to 30 lvl 25 battle pets in WoW this week, which was the achievement needed to get the most powerful pet trap in the game.
ArPharazonV: Yesterday, in fact.
VardaValar1: Yay!
ArPharazonV: So now I'm finally continuing the hunt for all wild pets in Pandaria, and I've already gotten several rares this evening :-)
ArPharazonV: Good to get started on that again. And the new trap looks really nice in action.
VardaValar1: What does it look like?
ArPharazonV: Instead of a square box that drops over the pet, as the previous ones..
ArPharazonV: it now lands behind him, and has two sides that close over it. Almost like a sideways set of jaws.
ArPharazonV: I almost feel sorry for the poor things ;-)
VardaValar1: I tried that box in real life, have to be reallllly quick and watchful for the right moment.
ArPharazonV: But it looks quite impressive!
VardaValar1: Eonwe reminds me that Children's Week is coming.
ArPharazonV: Aye. But judging from the official blog, there are no new features or rewards, and no new children for Pandaria.
VardaValar1: aww
VardaValar1: Still fun. : )
ArPharazonV: True :-)
VardaValar1: Any other WoW news before we switch games?

VardaValar1: LotRO:
VardaValar1: The next expansion for LotRO is also being teased to us. "Helm's Deep".
VardaValar1: The epic (book) story will move on to the western plains of Rohan, so we get a new area. :-)
VardaValar1: The book quest lets us be in the Helm's Deep battle, which should really be something wild.
VardaValar1: The level cap will go up to 95.
VardaValar1: Here's a Press Release on it:
ArPharazonV: Ah, overtaking WoW at last.
VardaValar1: heh
VardaValar1: Monday we get a game update. The patch notes for it will be available during the downtime.
VardaValar1: Gorlim-(V) came out of the Moors long enough to start working up his freeps again before the expansion, and is a fun guy to duo with. :-) His hunter and my guardian were handling the Entwash Vale quite nicely as a team.
VardaValar1: Any other LotRO comments?

VardaValar1: Tolkien:
VardaValar1: Two things:
VardaValar1: We have new posts on the role-playing story on the forum. Enjoy. : )
ArPharazonV: Just 2? ;-)
ArPharazonV: Oh, I thought you said 2 new posts.
ArPharazonV: Hah, my bad.
VardaValar1: Add some more, feel free! Looks like we're set up for some interesting interaction between Auros and Meren, and the rest of us could get caught up in it.
VardaValar1: new, two, sound similar. ;-)
VardaValar1: Farmer also asked if we could comment on what sort of economic system was in use in Middle-earth.
VardaValar1: for our chat today.
VardaValar1: Something to talk about between posts. ;-)
VardaValar1: Arien, if you're still in LotRO right now, do you see Indis? She'd probably like to know about the posts.
VardaValar1: For those who have had problems with being stuck in the annoying capcha for mistyping a password, exit the forum then return and try it again, and the capcha should not come at you again.
Eonwe Valar: I can't put my finger on a specific place right now, but I would imagine there would be some expected coinage (gold/silver at least, perhaps a lower grade metal as well) as it's easier to carry coins in many situations at the personal level than it would be to carry, say, a herd of cows and cash them in for a stay at an inn.
AriehnV: i ll tell her
VardaValar1: o wow
VardaValar1: Indis did post since I looked last. :-)
VardaValar1: The ball is back in our court. :-)
AriehnV: she is not online atm
AriehnV: was a bit earlier
ArPharazonV: Good point, Eonwe. Not all you can buy is material, so it would be odd.
AriehnV: and yes i read the posts ^^
Eonwe Valar: We know there was trade between nations/peoples from the Hobbit, with Laketown and Mirkwood.
ArPharazonV: However, we have a great deal of kingdoms and races all interacting with each other, such as the Dwarves travelling through the Shire for a quick example, or Shire hobbits visiting Bree.
VardaValar1: Calion posted too, heh. Sounds as if he and Fainan have some thoughts in common about the local state of nature.
VardaValar1: Aye Eonwe.
ArPharazonV: So there'd be a good deal of variety among the coinage.
ArPharazonV: And yeah, I mostly took the observations from your account, though I thought I'd give Calion's opinion and experience with it.
ArPharazonV: After all, I'd hardly see chaos if you saw order :-)
VardaValar1: We know the Dwarves used gold, and they would have traded it with others. Don't know if it was in the form of coins, dust, or nuggets.
farmermaggotv: Is it stated anywhere that each local economy uses coinage? I remember trade via barrels of goods and 'gold'
ArPharazonV: And it makes a lot of sense of course.
Eonwe Valar: Discrepancies in coinage would be handled by the weight of the coin to establish an exchange rate.
VardaValar1: Same as we used to do with the weight of gold and silver.
Eonwe Valar: Not every locality would necessarily use coinage, no.
ArPharazonV: I wonder what the value of gold is in the first place, outside of "it looks nice" and "it looks rare" so you'd think it's either coinage or beautiful gold-made trinkets/jewelry of some sort.
VardaValar1: They could still barter, but have some sort of coinage, dust, nuggets as well.
ArPharazonV: *not "it looks rare" but "it is rare"
VardaValar1: Gold is a fabulous conductor. :-) But mostly, it doesn't tarnish and can be worked in many ways.
Eonwe Valar: Well, a gold sword wouldn't be worth much in a battle, hehe.
ArPharazonV: Which makes it a good choice for coinage, Varda :-)
VardaValar1: But a bit of gold on the sword hilt for decoration would raise it's value decoratively.
farmermaggotv: For the dwarves gold would have real value, but would it make sense for them to use as coin if they needed it to make things?
VardaValar1: The really valuable metal to the Dwarves was mithril.
Eonwe Valar: coin can still be melted down, but not all of their mined gold would necessarily go to coin anyway.
VardaValar1: We continued to make gold jewelry while using gold coins. And yes, the jewelry was and is sometimes melted down to act as money or for making new things.
farmermaggotv: I don't think Tolkien talks much about local economies anywhere, does he? just trade between areas/kingdoms?
VardaValar1: The rings given to the dwarves helped them make gold from gold. They had a problem when no gold was handy to make more from.
Eonwe Valar: The important part for currency exchange "back in the day" would be the weight and purity of the gold in the coin anyway, not so much the face value of the coin like today.
ArPharazonV: I always wondered how that worked. How do you get more gold from gold? Buying mining equipment?
VardaValar1: We do know that the Mirkwood elves mostly traded for goods, rather than making a lot.
VardaValar1: Magic? : )
VardaValar1: Maybe the rings transported gold from deep underground?
ArPharazonV: Take a coin, aim the ring at it, and voila, you have 2 coins?
VardaValar1: It never said it made coins. Might have been nuggets.
VardaValar1: Replicator? : )
ArPharazonV: well, coins were just an example, nuggets would work :-)
Eonwe Valar: It's probably more of "gold ring increases lust for gold, Dwarf pursues more gold, Dwarf gets more gold, Dwarf credits Ring with having more gold."
VardaValar1: And the rings also increased the dwarves' desire for gold, the only way they were vulnerable.
VardaValar1: It actually mentions the problem, one reason Thorin's dad wasn't richer.
VardaValar1: No gold for the ring to work on.
ArPharazonV: Eh, the ring was made of gold!
VardaValar1: That's odd to me. Seems like they could have found some gold somewhere, or borrowed it for a day.
VardaValar1: Fixing someone's broken gold jewelry, replicate a broken piece.
VardaValar1: Must have been more to it. Not much detail.
VardaValar1: We are aware that Bilbo's family was considered wealthy. That they talked of gold and jewels that might be in Bag End.
VardaValar1: Gems, then, may have been used as a small item like a coin or nugget would be. Easier than that herd of livestock Eonwe mentioned. : )
VardaValar1: We know that Mirkwood elves traded with the humans regularly, using the river to send barrels along like a train route.
ArPharazonV: Wasn't that just based on the treasures Bilbo was supposed to have gotten from his journey?
VardaValar1: Some elves lived along the river bend just to push the barrels into position to go around it.
Eonwe Valar: The Bagginses were well-to-do before that.
VardaValar1: Aye, a wealthy family.
Eonwe Valar: Bilbo didn't seem to have any livestock or farmland, so his wealth would've had to be measured in some other way.
VardaValar1: They supported others with jobs such as gardening for them, so there was some sort of pay.
ArPharazonV: True.
ArPharazonV: You never do hear about Bilbo having a proper job before or after the book.
ArPharazonV: So his wealth must be somewhere.
VardaValar1: We know the hobbits had some ideas that are different than current ones, such as the birthday person giving presents to friends instead of getting them.
ArPharazonV: Friends are expensive, then.
VardaValar1: We know that mathoms (no longer needed or unwanted items) were passed around the hobbits in the form of birthday gifts, and possibly for other barter.
VardaValar1: heh
VardaValar1: For Bilbo to throw a giant birthday party inviting so many that he would give presents to, and *not* mathoms*, was a sign of great wealth.
VardaValar1: He had to pay for the fireworks, food, set-up.
farmermaggotv: I wonder how much Gandalf charged for his fireworks (or when he got time to make thing, between all of his wandering around and meddling)
VardaValar1: He only brought two small chests home from Smaug's horde. He had to have other money-making going on as well.
VardaValar1: It's possible that Gandalf didn't charage Bilbo for the fireworks, and he had not done such a think in a long time, so that only the oldest hobbits remembered.
ArPharazonV: Gandalf had to make a living too.
VardaValar1: *thing
ArPharazonV: I assume he needed to eat and places to stay.
VardaValar1: Gandalf was a rolling stone, no house to keep up. He is known to have stayed at inns where he would have to pay for the room. He would also be welcome as a friend in many places where he would not have to pay.
ArPharazonV: Very charismatic.
VardaValar1: How then did he earn money? Counsing advice maybe? Consultants can be well paid at times.
VardaValar1: *counseling
AriehnV: party arranger ^^
VardaValar1: hehehe
farmermaggotv: Amusingly the section where the hobbits come to The Prancing Pony doesn't mention a fee for the room (or any sort of money). I'm looking to see if it's somewhere later
ArPharazonV: A conjurer of cheap tricks ;-)
AriehnV: firework longer
AriehnV: aerr launcher
AriehnV: /slap typist
VardaValar1: He was not to be mistaken as a conjuror of cheap tricks. So his were expensive? : )
Eonwe Valar: Bilbo gave Sam a small bag of gold when the Hobbits were passing back through Rivendell after destroying the Ring. "Almost the last of the Smaug vintage." Doesn't say coinage, but I tend to think it was likely.
ArPharazonV: Could be jewelry.
ArPharazonV: Few nice necklaces and bracelets.
VardaValar1: and this one plain old gold ring...
ArPharazonV: hehe
AriehnV: ^^ the smallest of all , just a trinket , a sign of goodwil
Eonwe Valar: I doubt it was jewelry. 1.) If it were, it would've specified. 2.) Being lumped in a small bag wouldn't be too good on gold chains.
ArPharazonV: I purposely avoided the mention of rings. Could be used to confuse the Dark Riders though.
ArPharazonV: "That hobbit has the Ring!" "No, that one does!"
AriehnV: *stupid ! that one has it! j"
VardaValar1: In Roman times, a leader would wear gold chains and his army would protect him fiercely. Why? They were paid in the links of gold in the chains.
VardaValar1: Necklace style chains.
VardaValar1: Mr. T might command a nice army. : )
Eonwe Valar: lol
AriehnV: *chuckles*
ArPharazonV: So if the battle goes wrong, you murder your general and make off with his chains, or take over command.
Eonwe Valar: Considering I once heard he wears some 50 pounds of gold, yeah...
VardaValar1: The new commander would then be in charge of they payroll chains. : )
VardaValar1: *the
ArPharazonV: Right, so you know you can afford it :-)
AriehnV: err so whoever t
AriehnV: has the payroll has the command eh?
VardaValar1: A-Team.
VardaValar1: Someone has to wear the army payroll. : )
VardaValar1: He who has the gold makes the rules. :-) At least in that case.
VardaValar1: Wearing that gold also made a person a target.
VardaValar1: Anyway, money could be in forms other than coins, such as gold links, nuggets, dust. And it can be in other metals or whatever.
ArPharazonV: Don't let the enemy commander get away, so you can use his chains to pay your own troops.
VardaValar1: I wonder if they carefully tucked the chains under their tunics. : )
farmermaggotv: aha
farmermaggotv: "12 silver pennies"
VardaValar1: Very good, Farmer! Sounds familiar. Where is that?
farmermaggotv: Purchasing ponies to leave Bree
ArPharazonV: Pennies, eh. Pence.
ArPharazonV: Guess we have confirmation of coinage. Would they use pounds?
AriehnV: hmm silver they used
AriehnV: i remember something like that .. that Butterbur paid 6 silver compensation to everyone who lost a horse or pony
AriehnV: and that it was a lot even for him
VardaValar1: True
VardaValar1: that he had to pay all those back after the Nine scared off the stabled ponies.
ArPharazonV: This would also be pence, then?
VardaValar1: It got rid of Merry's ponies.
ArPharazonV: pennies?
VardaValar1: Pennies, pence.
ArPharazonV: Pennies are worth a lot then. If pounds were used, you wouldn't see it much. Larger golden coins perhaps.
VardaValar1: The one good thing that came out of that was getting Bill the Pony. : )
ArPharazonV: Though that would make a small bag of gold be quite a fortune.
VardaValar1: Aye, it probably was, Phar.
VardaValar1: Sam would not have to worry about money again, and could marry and have lots of little hobbits and his own farm if he wanted.
ArPharazonV: Which would make Bilbo's 2 decent-sized bags... worth quite a bit.
farmermaggotv: So perhaps the rewards from Bilbo's adventure was enough for several lifetimes
ArPharazonV: Enough for 60 years of mathoms perhaps :P
VardaValar1: hehe
farmermaggotv: (and perhaps the Tooks before him had also such rewards?)
VardaValar1: Just his mithril shirt stuffed in the museum was worth several times the price of the Shire.
VardaValar1: That's quite possible.
VardaValar1: I wonder how much money came back through the Hobbit archers sent to the High King at Fornost?
VardaValar1: Such abrupt jumps might do strange things to the Shire economy.
VardaValar1: Bilbo was probably careful about how much he spent. He seemed to like to be comfortable but not ostentatious (except maybe for brass buttons on his waistcoat).
ArPharazonV: Those archers could've founded some powerful families perhaps.
VardaValar1: Possibly.
VardaValar1: If they sent archers to that fight, more might have been out there hardly noticed.
Eonwe Valar: None of those archers ever returned.
VardaValar1: Perhaps their families were paid?
Eonwe Valar: A weregild is possible, aye.
VardaValar1: More like niext of kin payment, maybe.
VardaValar1: *next
VardaValar1: I'm typing too fast like Manwe used to. Pardon. : )
Eonwe Valar: To clarify, two groups of archers were sent. Those sent to aid the king before the fall of Fornost never returned. Those who went to liberate Fornost may have.
ArPharazonV: They might've brought back the payment for the first group, then.
VardaValar1: In the forum posts, nice to see Calion with curious squirrels trailing him. He's almost our own version of Radagast. : )
VardaValar1: I wonder if bringing such payment to the next of kin would be something the Rangers would do. It would add to the mixed feelings about them, as they bring money, but also seriously bad news.
Eonwe Valar: The Rangers didn't arise until after the battle to liberate Fornost.
ArPharazonV: The idea of zooming out on him wandering off into the green with a bunch of animal companions, disney-style, was just too good to pass up.
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: So that might have been an early Ranger duty?
Eonwe Valar: There's not enough information to say it wasn't, hehe.
VardaValar1: Ah the fun of leaving things open in the mythology for us to mess with. : )
ArPharazonV: So we have a group of Dunedain, just driven out of kingdom and city, deciding to adapt to a life in the wilderness and protect lesser races..
ArPharazonV: ..and the first thing they do is decide to ferry money off to the families of the fallen, instead of.. you know.. organizing themselves?
ArPharazonV: I'd think they'd have higher priorities just then. But who knows, they're an honorable bunch after all.
Eonwe Valar: Of course there would've been organization involved. They still had a king, and their numbers couldn't have been so depleted that he could not assign tasks to different groups.
VardaValar1: They would be organizing themselves first. And one of the early duties might be to pay off the king's debts.
VardaValar1: The rangers were still looking after the king's people, and the Hobbits were the only organized people left in their area, other than human villages or mixed like Bree.
ArPharazonV: Hmm, allright.
Eonwe Valar: The Chieftains were fostered in Rivendell, starting with Arvedui's son Aranarth (the first chieftain). It's possible Elrond lended his aid and council.
VardaValar1: So they protected the Hobbits
VardaValar1: No way they could make him be quiet. : )
VardaValar1: And if the chieftains survived, Elrond cared for them in their old age as well. Love of his brother, Elros, was his first motive.
AriehnV: it would be logical in return they would help to pay the kings costs i guess .. such as payment of soldiers and supplies and logistics and such
VardaValar1: It was his way of still having Elros, his twin, with him.
Eonwe Valar: "After Arvedui the North-kingdom ended, for the Dunedain were now few and all the peoples of Eriador diminished." The word "few" could easily still mean some hundreds or thousands when considering an entire population.
ArPharazonV: Of course. Especially if they're to survive for another 1500 years or so.
VardaValar1: Scatter them across a large wild area, and they would seem to be smaller in number, especially in smaller groups.
VardaValar1: Farmer, did we more or less answer the topic question? : )
Eonwe Valar: Consider that not all of thsoe thousands would be soldiers, and it's easy to see they might not be able to hold their lands as a traditional kingdom when compared to the South-kingom or Rohan at the end of the Third Age, who could field some 6-10 thousand soldiers and still provide a defense at home.
farmermaggotv: Certainly explored it, I don't think there's an "answer" as such
VardaValar1: Thanks. : )
Eonwe Valar: There was coinage, and there was barter. More populated areas seemed to resort to coin, more rural areas would've could've used barter.
VardaValar1: The soldiers would be taking care of their extended families as well. I wonder what kind of life they had. Wandering bands going to small, fairly permanent camps or stations?
VardaValar1: Easier to use barter in rural areas where more space is available.
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
ArPharazonV: They probably gathered around settled areas, like the Bree-area where many of them were familiar faces.
VardaValar1: Although in town, one could barter pastries and cloth goods back and forth. : )
ArPharazonV: So even if they didn't have actual permanent stations, they didn't migrate too far.
VardaValar1: Rangers were not considered good to have around by the Bree folk. That's kind of odd, in a way.
AriehnV: i would think they would have a central settlement where they probalbly raised their children and gave them first training in the use of weapons .. and then likley smaller camps all over the place .. let the kids learn *on the job*
VardaValar1: Maybe a bit of that adventuring taboo clinging to them, connected with reminding them of scary things.
ArPharazonV: Mysterious outsiders, and they didn't think much good of the wilderness around their own towns, so it's a bit understandable.
Eonwe Valar: I imagine there were still Dunedain towns and cities scattered thoughout Arnor, probably more off the "beaten path" though.
ArPharazonV: Some forest towns perhaps.
Eonwe Valar: Or there could be Dunedain citizens within the settled areas themselves, with knowledge of their origins, but keeping it secret.
VardaValar1: Very likely.
VardaValar1: Strider appears to have used the Prancing Pony as a meeting place for his rangers.
Eonwe Valar: It would be easier for Rangers if there were at least a handful of Dunedain families in the cities in which they ended up to provide some support if the situation warranted it.
ArPharazonV: So their children could've been raised in the more common settlements, like Bree.
Eonwe Valar: And aye, Bree was a major hub for the area. Consider also he had some rangers on Shire detail, and Gandalf personally had asked him for it, so Aragorn probably thought it best to check in on that detail personally.
VardaValar1: The children needed to learn special abilities, things they couldn't learn easily or hide learning in a regular town.
ArPharazonV: I vaguely recall there being a town north of Bree closer to the forest, which may have had more Rangers present.
ArPharazonV: Archet.
VardaValar1: Archet, a place with which LotRO players, especially humans, are familar. : )
ArPharazonV: Ah :-)
ArPharazonV: Any Ranger-presence then?
VardaValar1: Part of the big fun in LotRO is just getting to walk around Middle-earth and bump into some hobbit named Saradoc etc. : )
VardaValar1: They didn't show one, but it was left open. Mostly the rangers use the many ruins.
ArPharazonV: While such things in LotRO can't be considered book-canon I suppose, it does help with remembering places like Archet.
VardaValar1: They did have a ranger in Archet. : )
VardaValar1: and then later they even started putting Aragorn as a visitor to Archet.
VardaValar1: Aye, not book canon, but we do push them to try to keep close.

VardaValar1: Folks, I am going to call After-meeting here.
VardaValar1: Feel free to keep chatting if you like. : )
VardaValar1: *hammer goes tinnnng*
farmermaggotv has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Rangers using old ruins does have basis in the books at least. Rangers had been at Weathertop not too long before Aragorn and company arrived.
VardaValar1: Aye
Eonwe Valar: They left firewood, which could imply they expected themselves or others to use that area again.
Eonwe Valar: Plus there was a fresh water spring at Weathertop, which would be useful for travellers.
VardaValar1: Good night, Arien. Glad you made it onto Ventrilo ok. : )
VardaValar1: Rangers would have felt a lot of connection with the ruins.
AriehnV: Good Night Varda and all :-) thanks for that and the chat ... sleepy though it might have sounded ;-)
VardaValar1: Maybe our rp group will meet some rangers in ruins. : )
VardaValar1: Rest well!
ArPharazonV: namarie Arien!
AriehnV: Namarie all :-D
AriehnV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well, belatedly :}
Eonwe Valar: I need to close AIM. Having red lag in WoW and it's not helping.
Eonwe Valar: Take care and happy hunting.
VardaValar1: See you there :-)
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Red lag? I had that on Friday. Turned out to be because of patch-predownloading.
VardaValar1: I'll pass it on to him
ArPharazonV:  [Note: click on the tags to see more nutty stuff  LotR, Lord of the Rings if you're so inclined]
VardaValar1: hehehehe
VardaValar1: That's someone with time on their hands. :-)
ArPharazonV: Well spent I'd say :-)
VardaValar1: I like Aragorn in his sunglasses. Expressive. :-)
ArPharazonV: Speaking of gold chains, hm? ;-)
VardaValar1: Sam has a lot of expression.
VardaValar1: lol
VardaValar1: Fits today's discussion!
VardaValar1: Obey :-) heh
VardaValar1: Probably not what it really says, but looks like it from here.
ArPharazonV: Something like that. Legolas' has a line above it but it's unreadable.
ArPharazonV: saving and sending transcript
VardaValar1: Thank you. :-)