Valar Guild

August 19, 2012 Sunday Meeting

5pm EDT (GMT - 5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by Ar-Pharazon and Varda.

Attending: (5)
    ArPharazonV, Eonwe Valar, Glorfindel VG, Turin-V/turinofVG, VardaValar1 (presiding)

Before-meeting
Meeting begins
Membership:
    Arien
    Elwing
Web:
    Stories
    Coding
    GSMU upcoming
Gaming:
    League of Legends review
    Anniversary event planning, as a Dragonversary. Dragon-theme.
    WoW
    LotRO
Tolkien:
    Topic 1: Some books have worlds no one would want to live in; not so for Middle-earth.
    Topic 2: Describe the LotR books to someone who knows nothing about them but likes fantasy.
    Tangent topic 1: Why can't the eagles carry the One Ring to Mt. Doom? (Discussion mixes in with the topic below.)
    Tangent topic 2: How badly did Frodo actually succumb to the temptation of the One Ring in Mt. Doom?
    Tangent topic 3: Sauron was also setting up a lot more gambits and forces than just fighting Gondor and Erebor, that everyone was active all around the Fellowship.
    Tangent topic 4: Huorns, Ents, Entwives
After-meeting:
    Tolkien chat continued
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Before-meeting:
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Golden One. :-) Still have a quarter of an hour, no worries.
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
ArPharazonV: Will do a bit more fishing then.
VardaValar1: midnight fish and chips snack? :-)
ArPharazonV: hehe
ArPharazonV: farming won't be until Mists of Pandaria, so just fish for now ;-)
VardaValar1: They're trying to be more like LotRO, with real farms that you grow things on?
ArPharazonV: I have no idea, but there is some farming going on in some form or another. Haven't really looked into that. Probably just some daily quests and factions.
VardaValar1: o ok
VardaValar1: It's very natural to the LotR storyline, hobbits with farms etc
ArPharazonV: Makes sense, yes. But the pandas are quite good at farming as well.
ArPharazonV: Probably rice, or bamboo, or something ;-)
ArPharazonV: ...does that count as racist?
VardaValar1: That could be interesting
VardaValar1: In today's climate everything counts as racist. :-) Nahh
VardaValar1: Eonwe seems to be having trouble staying online.
turinofVG has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Turin :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
ArPharazonV: turinofVG ;-)
turinofVG: This thing keeps changing my name
turinofVG has left the room.
VardaValar1: I saw Turin-V
ArPharazonV: Still the same odd thing as last week, doubt that'll change.
VardaValar1: It looked like Turin-V for his first name and his real last name as his last name, with turinofVG in parentheses.
turinofVG has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Welcome back : )
turinofVG: Well that's a bit better
turinofVG: Hello everyone
ArPharazonV: Hey :-)
VardaValar1: That dropped off your real last name, leaving Turin-V. Nice : )
ArPharazonV: Still the same for me as before.
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya.
ArPharazonV: but no private information compromised so that's okay!
turinofVG: Hello
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya Eonwe. Looked like you might've gotten disconnected a bit ago. Doing ok?
ArPharazonV: How's my name, Eonwe? Still okay?
Eonwe Valar: Aye, just thought I'd go ahead and update AIM while I had a tiny bit of time, hehe.
Eonwe Valar: Shows ArPharazonV :}
VardaValar1: o good
ArPharazonV: Good :-)
Glorfindel VG has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Balrog-slayer :-)
turinofVG: Aiya Glorfindel
Glorfindel VG: Aiya all
Glorfindel VG has left the room.
ArPharazonV: and he's gone?
ArPharazonV: betting on an accidental esc
VardaValar1: aye, maybe that update hitting.
VardaValar1: He had barely come online
ArPharazonV: AIM claims him to be still online
VardaValar1: true
VardaValar1: He said he accidentally closed it, has a re-invte
VardaValar1: and he's offline
Glorfindel VG has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Welcome back :-)
Glorfindel VG: Thanks. I seemed to have glitched out
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VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Membership:
VardaValar1: It's summer time when everyone's schedules seem to go nutty, but we're around in odd spots and times.
VardaValar1: Thank you all for taking the time to come here!
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VardaValar1: Web:
VardaValar1: In the Stories, The Mellon Chronicles stories are now all ready for viewing except one, which can be read if you don't mind huge spaces and some stuff that could use a few corrections.
VardaValar1: It's a long series of novels of the friendship of Aragorn and Legolas from the start to the finish, with a bit of "poetic license".
VardaValar1: It spawned a lot of stories from it by authors who enjoyed the way they handled that long period of time and added to it, mostly not added here, but interesting as history.

VardaValar1: In other web news, a potential recruit suggested trying WordPress as an easier way to handle our stuff with less coding work. She puts up web sites herself that way.
VardaValar1: I said I'd pass it on, so it's now passed on. : )
VardaValar1: Any other web news?
ArPharazonV: Consider it passed on!
VardaValar1: ^^

Eonwe Valar: GSMU next month. Be afraid :}
VardaValar1: eeep!
VardaValar1: Usually October is when it's completed? The Games Site Mass Update?
ArPharazonV: I should really keep track of what I tellyou for the update since it's probably going to be "same as last year but with D3"
turinofVG: Actually, on the subject of web news, sort of.
VardaValar1: Since he wipes out the old info, he won't have that so you need to mention them all again.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, I try to send out the letter close to the first of September with a deadline of the 30th, then I try to have all tyhe new info upo, with an Games Site tweaks, by the Anniversary Meeting.

ArPharazonV: Ooh, I forgot to mention membership news.
Eonwe Valar: That's it from me, barring any questions :}
VardaValar1: Thanks, Eonwe.
VardaValar1: Phar, go ahead. Then Turin's turn.
ArPharazonV: Arien left me a letter in WoW, her holidays have started and she's spending this weekend LARPing.
ArPharazonV: That's why she's not in the meeting!
ArPharazonV: Allright, tha's it.
VardaValar1: ohh, have a great time, Arien!
Eonwe Valar: LARP well :}
ArPharazonV: I'm sure she'll be happy to read that in the transcript when she's back from LARPing ;-)

VardaValar1: Turin, go ahead.
turinofVG: Nothing big, I was just going to say you can probably go ahead and delete those address/account names from the past for me. If anyone tries them it would be an echo into void. :-)
VardaValar1: Thank you
VardaValar1: ok, he says he's not doing that site anymore either
VardaValar1: back from when he was Khamul
VardaValar1: Thanks for helping with that clean-up. : )
VardaValar1: So is the AIM name Turin-V?
turinofVG: Yes
VardaValar1: Thank you
VardaValar1: ok, hit Refresh or Reload. Should be ok now?
VardaValar1: Anyone else need work on their spot on the Membership page?
VardaValar1: http://valarguild.org/varda/guild/members.htm
VardaValar1: Feel free to email me anytime or catch me on AIM to fix.

VardaValar1: A question. I've been worrying about having your emails on the site even scrambled,
ArPharazonV: Mine looks about right.
VardaValar1: since so many places are saying they are trying to protect such information from being online.
ArPharazonV: Oh I don't really mind. Gmail has a good spamfilter.
VardaValar1: Please remember to tell me if it's confidential or be sure to use one made for us.
VardaValar1: Agreed. I like Gmail for that too. ^^
VardaValar1: I was wondering if I should have them up at all, if it's a privacy concern.

VardaValar1: Facebook links are even more invasive with actual names etc. Any comment on that?
Eonwe Valar: I don't use Facebook. Saves me alot of trouble from everything I keep hearing.
ArPharazonV: same here
VardaValar1: Ok, only posting if the person wants it.
VardaValar1: I find it a nifty way to keep in touch with scattered family, from Mongolia, Arizona, Utah, Kansas, etc. : )
VardaValar1: Sharing pics and such.
VardaValar1: But it might not be good to post as part of our online group in gaming.
VardaValar1: I have had no problem with it though.
Eonwe Valar: Not if someone expects a modicum of privacy apparently.
VardaValar1: People phone and ask how you're going to vote as if the ballot isn't secret, so aye, not much privacy expected.
VardaValar1: Anyway, be sure to say if you want anything removed from the Membership page. It will be gone. :-)
VardaValar1: It's nice being able to reach each other though, so if you're happy with it, it can stay, like email.
VardaValar1: nuff said
VardaValar1: Gaming!

Eonwe Valar: Of course we need things like e-mail for contact, but if every member used the forum, that would help get members together :}
VardaValar1: Back to that
VardaValar1: Some groups use only a forum, no website the way we do.
VardaValar1: Our forum was more of an afterthought.
VardaValar1: We tend to chat in-game and in AIM, more than using the forum.
VardaValar1: Sorry, had a phone call about a hopefully repaired computer. : )
VardaValar1: How would we like to start using the forum better?
VardaValar1: The reason we first picked it up was for folks who could not come to the Tolkien chat, so they could weigh in on the subjects or start new ones.
ArPharazonV: Not sure what you can do. I agree that the forum's slow, but perhaps that is because of the other ways people like to keep in touch.
ArPharazonV: Are people aware of it? Especially in LotRO?
ArPharazonV: Can you post like a guild message that everyone can see when they log in?
VardaValar1: Much later folks said we should use it to help us get together for gaming.
VardaValar1: In LotRO, we post the Message of the Day, aye.
ArPharazonV: Throw a mention of the forum, or even the url, in there, and you might get some more activity.
VardaValar1: Since the gang split across some betas and other games for a bit this summer, we have some difficulty fielding numbers for any runs.
ArPharazonV: Or since LotRO is the most active game for us, it might do to put crafting or other cooperative discussions in there, even more than you have now.
VardaValar1: However, we do stuff together on our own.
VardaValar1: How would we want to use it for crafting discussion? Your kin uses it for that on WoW?
turinofVG: A potential use of that like Phar said is for crafting, where if one of us would like some help or some craft resource or something, we don't need to hunt down the right people but just post on the forum.
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
VardaValar1: Normally we can just say we need something when several are online and between us we build it.
VardaValar1: One has certain mats, another has the expertise, etc. Done that quite a lot.
turinofVG: True, but like you said for this summer people are spread out and such so several online might not be as frequent.
ArPharazonV: I'm trying to think of what we do with our WoW forum. We personally don't use it for crafting much but an earlier group I was in, did. Had whole lists of what everyone could make and what people wanted.
VardaValar1: True, Turin
VardaValar1: That would be a scarily long list, Phar, on what we can make.
Eonwe Valar: Posting on the Forum that someone needs, say, 200 untreated mallorn, would get to a broader spectrum of the membership, if the membership used the forum, and then the 200 could be pieced togather among several people.
ArPharazonV: We have some raiding discussions, we have a couple of Mists of Pandaria discussions....
VardaValar1: A number of us operate almost all or all the crafts to the highest level.
ArPharazonV: Applications sometimes are handled on the forum.
Eonwe Valar: *together, not togather, hehehe.
VardaValar1: Applications - that might be a thought.
VardaValar1: Since it's a live test for courtesy and to see if they read LotR, guess it would be mostly a how do we get together?
VardaValar1: AIM meetings are a good spot for that, or perhaps regular times to come be available for testing?
VardaValar1: Suggestions?
VardaValar1: (Fluent garble spoken here.)
VardaValar1: I really prefer live scouters meeting people they like and who they've asked if they've read the books, bringing them to a tester.
Eonwe Valar: I'm iffy on applications via forum. Useful perhaps if someone can't reach me, Varda, or another Maia/Vala directly for testing for any reason, but there'd still be the getting together to be handled.
VardaValar1: So perhaps a listing of times when we can be reached regularly for testing and how to contact that way? Currently we have emails up.
ArPharazonV: Well it's a bit different for the valarguild, sure.
ArPharazonV: in WoW we use it for armory links, playe rhistory etc
VardaValar1: No armory links in LotRO.
VardaValar1: Player history, is that the rp bio?
Eonwe Valar: On the Games Site, member characters on the Guild Player pages link directly to their profile on the WoW Community Site.
ArPharazonV: Nah. More like.. what guilds have you raided with before, what do you expect from raiding, what's your raid progress... why did you leave your last guild...
ArPharazonV: it doesn't work for something like the valarguild
VardaValar1: Since we play Tolkien characters, I'd like to see members write an article describing things about their character needed to rp: family, when they existed, what area of Middle-earth, who they would have interactions with.
ArPharazonV: character bios are good on forums as well, though we don't use em much personally
VardaValar1: Ah ok, so more like raiding history.
ArPharazonV: yes
ArPharazonV: your personal player history in WoW
ArPharazonV: not the characters
ArPharazonV: not in-character anyway
VardaValar1: You're right, that doesn't really work for us.
VardaValar1: But I would really like those articles. They can help others interact with them too.
ArPharazonV: it doesn't, because 1) this is more a social guild and 2) membership extends among many games
ArPharazonV: so the requirements are just completely different, incomparable
VardaValar1: Turin is now with us in LotRO playing at the same time as Hurin, who is his dad in the story. : )
VardaValar1: Aye, the forum use was intended as a supplement to our Tolkien chats originally.
VardaValar1: Be nice to see that going again. : )
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VardaValar1: Gaming:
VardaValar1: Ok, so what games have we played this week that aren't WoW or LotRO? : )
turinofVG: Well, if it is gaming news, would anyone care about League of Legends news or is that a bit too out there?
ArPharazonV: Bit of flashgames mostly. I've seen a lot of progress on the MLP games I've been following but nothing playable.
ArPharazonV: Flashgames were nothing remarkable in my opinion; didn't bother to finish most of them
ArPharazonV: So yeah, that's it from me.
VardaValar1: Mainly a review of the game if you think it's fun and would like others to join you, or a mention that you play, general news like they had a patch or have an event going.
VardaValar1: Thanks to Phar, the flashgame review man. : )
ArPharazonV: Our members are playing games all over the place, Turin, I bet someone'd be interested in LoL.
turinofVG: Well hmm, a review.
VardaValar1: Should we want to play it? : )
turinofVG: It's a free to play DOTA (Defense of the Acients to thos who never played warcraft 3) style game.
turinofVG: It's a bit hard to describe from ground up
turinofVG: its a team game, 5 players on two teams, where each person will pick a 'champion' to play and each one tends (though is not constricted to) certain roles
VardaValar1: Don't try for details, just general, and why it hooked you and what we should beware of.
turinofVG: Well its a team game that has a demand of both technical game skill and strategy, so a bit like playing starcraft 2 in that sense
turinofVG: You play against both idividuals and the enemy team during the game
Glorfindel VG: free to play?
turinofVG: Yes indeed
turinofVG: and i was about to say
turinofVG: if there is interest
turinofVG: its a good time to start watching online, the company for it (Riot games) is holding their Season 2 championship tournament in the coming months
VardaValar1: Free is important to a lot of people right now. : )
turinofVG: and there will be more tournaments occuring as build up
turinofVG: It is more true to the free to play sense than LotRO
turinofVG: there are things you can spend money on, but they are only purchasing champions to play or cosmetic skins for them
turinofVG: no real competative advantage can be gained via money
turinofVG: and the closest ones that are can also be bought with an in game currency that you get win or lose (though of course there is more prize for the winners :-))
turinofVG: I suppose the best way to describe it is a blend of rpg and rts game
Glorfindel VG: A friend of mine was into Heroes of Newerth for a while. That would be a similar game, right?
turinofVG: Very similar, both of them founded by individuals who worked the original DOTA style map in Warcraft 3
turinofVG: Most prefer LoL though, which has done a bit of a better job of product building.
turinofVG: It tends to come out with a new champion and patch updates every other week (give or take) so the game doesn't become stale easily
VardaValar1: Nice
turinofVG: I've enjoyed playing it because it brings in that strategic and tatical sense that you would get from an RTS but has that team aspect and doesn't rely on having rediculous mechanical actions like SC2
VardaValar1: Even a monthly update to games would help most.
Glorfindel VG: Aye. Sounds like fun.
turinofVG: I would say the only big smudge is that since its a team game, if you are playing alone then it means a game will involve you relying on 4 strangers, which has an element of chance in terms of how cooperative your teammates are
turinofVG: like any online game, there are those who are not quite so friendly
VardaValar1: Sounds as if it needs kin groups to do well.
ArPharazonV: sounds a bit like D3 multiplayer
turinofVG: I wouldn't say its that bad, its more like sometimes you'll run into bad spots
VardaValar1: Aye, Phar
turinofVG: however, playing with friends has the benefit of communication
turinofVG: words are faster than fingers usually :-)
VardaValar1: and knowing their playstyles
VardaValar1: Aye, reason we have Ventrilo. : )
turinofVG: I would say if any are interested today, they will likely still be running reruns of the European qualifiers for the Season championship
turinofVG: That I would say is another thing I like about it, more of an international competative scene compared to the Korean-dominated Starcraft 2
turinofVG: But I would say that might be what I say about it without going into clunky details :-)
turinofVG: So I guess that is it
VardaValar1: Thank you, Turin. : )
VardaValar1: If you'd like to take your time and do up a good review, feel free to email it to Eonwe for the Games Site. : )
ArPharazonV: is there a single player mode, or AI possible?
VardaValar1: You can use this chat to help write it up if you like.
turinofVG: There is indeed a humans vs Bots mode, less currency reward and maybe not something of great practice for vs humans
turinofVG: The game though is primarily built for the pvp action
Glorfindel VG: That will be useful to learn the game without being called "newbie" by strangers
VardaValar1: Aye, Glor
turinofVG: There is a tutorial mode that you can do at the start, the humans vs bots, and also the way an account works is you play games to get experience and level
turinofVG: with a max of 30
turinofVG: and the matchmaking usually bases off of that (as well as wins-losses)
turinofVG: and once you get to 30 you can do ranked games (more acclaim essentially but also a more sophisticated matchmaking)
ArPharazonV: like the 50 or so test games for SCII
turinofVG: However there is no actual benefit gained from playing ranked games, except experience
turinofVG: There are also alternative play modes, most of which would be good for honing individual fighting ability with less regard for that overall strategy
turinofVG: A review for the site would probably be much more comprehensive :-)
VardaValar1: We look forward to it. : )
Eonwe Valar: Aye :}

Anniversary event planning:
VardaValar1: ok, we have some news relating to both WoW and LotRO.
VardaValar1: Eonwe, go ahead.
Eonwe Valar: Thanks.
Eonwe Valar: I just wanted to make a quick mention about something that came to me earleir this week.
Eonwe Valar: Both LotRO and WoW have dragons that put up a pretty good fight in their current expansions, and I thought it'd be cool if we could scrounge up enough in our guild branches in both games to take both Draigoch and Deathwing down for this year's 15th Anniversary.
VardaValar1: A Dragnoversary. : )
VardaValar1: Dragonversary
VardaValar1: This might also be doable in other games with dragons or similar monsters.
Glorfindel VG: Sounds like a good occasion for me to reactivate my wow account for
Eonwe Valar: To that end, there's a post on the forum calling for all interested parties to express said interest there by September 15th. If we have enough interest in either or both games, we'll take a shot at it in the game or games where we have enough. Otherwise, no one's lost anything.
VardaValar1: It's a very nifty idea.
VardaValar1: The main problem we might have is that it is about the time expansions come out, and might cross up with it.
VardaValar1: But maybe we can take a little time out for one run, folks. : )
VardaValar1: and take screenshots!
Eonwe Valar: For Draigoch, one would have to be at least lvl 75, for Deathwing, lvl 85. Item lvl for Deathwing would preferrably be item level 378 (if memory serves) or higher. I'm not sure what would be a preferrable/required gear level for Draigoch.
Glorfindel VG: in that case, even if we dont get enough players we can wipe out deathwing as level 90 with 4 or 5 of us
VardaValar1: We should be able to bring in that many, even if we need to hit the phones. : )
Eonwe Valar: Aye, I'm just suggesting one day for each, giving our best shot: Friday October 5th at normal run time for Lothar, and Saturday October 6th at normal run time for Landroval.
VardaValar1: Not sure if Fangorn will be home at that time, but he'd enjoy it.
Eonwe Valar: Normal run time on a Saturday, of course. So I guess that'd be around noon?
Eonwe Valar: Anyway, everyone who is interested in making this happen by comin in for either of these is asked to post on the forum in the following thread saying so, because it's much easier to keep track of the interest if we can all help me out and say you're interested in that thread :}
Eonwe Valar: http://valarguild.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=MGannouncements&action=display&thread=1201
VardaValar1: Actually, Friday in WoW I've been quite alone. Although Elwing shows in Horde side. Saturday about 2 or 3 of us show in LotRO, not a good time right now.
VardaValar1: Still, for a special event, we'll go for it. : )
Eonwe Valar: If we have the interest, we can work out the final details for each event.
Glorfindel VG: And with MoP's release, we may see members returning to WoW
Eonwe Valar: But some point during the week of the Anniversary would be the ultimate goal.
VardaValar1: We have a lot of folks wanting to come in for the LotRO Riders of Rohan giant expansion also.
VardaValar1: We'll see how it goes.
Eonwe Valar: Aye. For LotRo it'll be a month after launch anyway, and for WoW about a week.
VardaValar1: So good chance. And more folks on.
Eonwe Valar: You all will be seeing this mentioned in the GSMU letter as well.
VardaValar1: Alrighty, sounds like a good time. : )

VardaValar1: Eonwe, do we have a WoW report? Patches, stuff happening?
Eonwe Valar: So again, please post in that thread if you're interested :}
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
Eonwe Valar: Patch 5.0.4 should be out...
Eonwe Valar: The Tuesday after next I think,..
Eonwe Valar: That's when the PvP season is ending, and that usually means the patch is coming out then or very close to then.
Eonwe Valar: In addition, Blizzard is making all races available for making characters to anyone with any expansion.
Eonwe Valar: So even if you only have the Vanilla/BC expansion, you'll get to make Goblin, Worgen, and Pandaren characters.
VardaValar1: That should cause a flurry of character building. : )
Eonwe Valar: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/6994738/All_Races_Available_in_Patch_504-8_16_2012
Eonwe Valar: I believe Pandaren won't be until MoP launches, and you'll of course still need MoP to be able to make a monk.
Eonwe Valar: Lastly, if you want to see the MoP Opening Cinematic, it's available.
Eonwe Valar: As far as Guild news, Ranelus reached 85, and so our Lothar branch now has the "Class Act" Guild Achievement :}
Eonwe Valar: Thus ends my report :}
VardaValar1: Thank you, Eonwe, for going to the trouble of leveling the last rogue just so we could have that achievement. Well done. : )

VardaValar1: LotRO:
VardaValar1: Summerfest is coming up soon. : )
VardaValar1: Our regular run times were Monday and Wednesday at 8pm Eastern, and I still show up then even though they are no longer official, and like to group then.
VardaValar1: Also true of Saturday 1pm Eastern. That one's a lot harder for me to come to, but I try.
VardaValar1: Luckily this last Saturday, Hurin and Hama were on and we had fun.
VardaValar1: Hama has finally hit level 75 (current cap) so we tried some fun stuff.
VardaValar1: We made a surprisingly good team and joked a lot, completing everything even if it was a first run for Hama.
VardaValar1: Congrats on the teamwork and enjoyable atmosphere. It's what Valar is meant to be like. : )
VardaValar1: We completed Fangorn's Edge twice
VardaValar1: then Storm on Methedras.
VardaValar1: Hama had to leave so Hurin and I duoed Battle in the Tower.
VardaValar1: All went very well, good barter stuff picked up. : )
VardaValar1: Also, this has been Welcome Back weekend, with extra experience for killing baddies, although not extra for quests.
VardaValar1: This was very handy when deeding, which we have been doing a lot of.
VardaValar1: Hama and I joined up for deeding with several characters and brought in others in the area so we didn't get in the way of their questing. Much fun was had.
VardaValar1: Any other comments for LotRO?
VardaValar1: I hope Turin's been having fun with his young champion. He's been leveling nicely. : )
VardaValar1: On to
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VardaValar1: Tolkien!
VardaValar1: Who all is present? Please type Manwe
VardaValar1: Manwe
ArPharazonV: Manwe
Eonwe Valar: Manwë
Eonwe Valar: I even threw in an umlaut, hehe.
VardaValar1: Nice umlaut
turinofVG: Manwe
VardaValar1: I still have problems with putting those on. : )
VardaValar1: Two things right off.

VardaValar1: One is that Eonwe and I were noticing that there are books out there with made up worlds that no one would want to live in!
VardaValar1: Middle-earth has a lot of dangers and problems. Would anyone like to live there and where?
ArPharazonV: Didn't we have a topic like this not too long ago, where in Middle-earth we'd want to live?
Eonwe Valar: We've had that particular discussion in the past, yes. Not recently I don't believe. The first question to ask here though is, would you even want to live in Middle-Earth?
VardaValar1: ok, second topic
ArPharazonV: Hmm I don't know, no internet ;-)
Eonwe Valar: *First question to answer.
Eonwe Valar: hehehe
VardaValar1: *gasp*
Eonwe Valar: Elves can make palantiri. I'm sure they could work something out :}
VardaValar1: Good point. Telepathy might not cut it.
VardaValar1: That's it. Pharazon, Palantiri salesman.
VardaValar1: Next. : )
Eonwe Valar: Palantir chess :}
VardaValar1: lol - nominates Fladrif

VardaValar1: I met a person yesterday who knew almost nothing about Middle-earth or the LotR.
ArPharazonV: I
VardaValar1: What info would we want to tell someone like that? How do we describe the way it grabbed the minds of so many folks, especially creative people? What would you have told this person?
ArPharazonV: 'd assume there's more people like that; unless you're talking about in LotRO
VardaValar1: It was in LotRO. But it wouldn't have to be there. Easier to meet such folk outside LotRO, and we do meet them. How do you tell them about this place?
VardaValar1: Actually quite a few in LotRO who did not read LotR.
Eonwe Valar: "In a hole in the earth lived a hobbit" probably would cut it.
Eonwe Valar: *would not
VardaValar1: That is a real grabber though. : )
VardaValar1: Not a nasty smelly hole with the ends of earthworms... :-)
turinofVG: I was about to say, maybe you need to add that part
VardaValar1: Agreed. : )
Eonwe Valar: :}
turinofVG: I guess if it was a matter of convincing
ArPharazonV: Need to know if they're interested in fantasy stories anyway ;-)
VardaValar1: yes, this person enjoyed fantasy stories
Eonwe Valar: Or heroic epics :}
turinofVG: I would talk about how knowing what the game is essentially can make it more interesting, give you some more intrinsic interest in the world
Eonwe Valar: It's a tale of heroism.
turinofVG: essentially background to*
turinofVG: left some words out
turinofVG: Like just from the books I think the Mines of Moria section will be awesome
Eonwe Valar: "In a land where freedom should be for all, One Maia seeks to bring tyranny to all. Sauron is (dramatic music) The Lord of the Rings!"
ArPharazonV: A tale of heroism and danger and sacrifice, wherein a small group takes on great odds, and a little person needs to put himself in great danger and hunger and exhaustion to save the world.
VardaValar1: over the shoulder Sauron-(Valar) says: Large scale, multi-racial, good vs evil, good guys massively outgunned by bad guys. Bad guys' Achilles heel is a ring but they have to take it into his stronghold where it was made.

ArPharazonV: "So why can't they drop it in with some giant bird or something?"
turinofVG: Well then you have to like, read Silmarillion and stuff
turinofVG: Its a tie-in!
VardaValar1: lol
VardaValar1: tie-in
VardaValar1: Nazgul flying around on fell beasts, Sauron can easily see them coming, it's inside the volcano way in the middle of his territory
VardaValar1: It's too far in for that ballista or arbelest they use in YouTube. : )

Eonwe Valar: This all assuming that Frodo would've been able to withstand the temptation of the Ring without all that pesky growth and character development that happened along the way.
VardaValar1: Sauron is a major power
turinofVG: The eagles wanted people to deal with their own darn problems
ArPharazonV: He failed to withstand the temptation of the Ring at the end anyway.
VardaValar1: Actually that's pretty close. The Valar were trying to teach the free people to grow up and solve their own problems, giving them some help since Maiar were involved.
turinofVG: And there is the real answer
turinofVG: Phar's I mean
turinofVG: No fighting over the ring while riding eagles
turinofVG: Arms and legs inside the cabin and all
VardaValar1: Frodo was not supposed to have to go it alone. A Fellowship was sent to help out. But it was broken.
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: The eagle takes the ring and tries for world domination. : )
ArPharazonV: "Hey, little guy, I took you all the way to Mordor, and we'll probably be discovered any minute, so toss in that ring already!"
Eonwe Valar: Frodo got the Ring to Mount Doom, and he did not deliver it to Sauron...
turinofVG: "Nah, take me to that dark tower, I'm setting up shop"
VardaValar1: They would have been a huge red flag to Sauron just coming near the border. He knows they are of Manwe.
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Eagle flambe. Meat's back on the menu, boys.
VardaValar1: But eagles don't have magical powers. They're just really big and intelligent.
turinofVG: And they have their orders
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: I kind of wish JRRT had told more in his book about what was going on with Frodo. Some of the best stuff is in the Letters instead.
turinofVG: I need to find me some of those.
VardaValar1: He would have taken the Ring for his own, knowing he could not withstand Sauron, and to keep it for his own and fulfill his mission, he would have then stepped off into the lava.
VardaValar1: But since we only see what the characters are doing and don't hear their thoughts, we don't know this.
VardaValar1: Some of the inferences are really subtle.
ArPharazonV: We should really have an extended version that shows more introspection for the characters.
VardaValar1: Frodo puts an order on the Ring that if Gollum hurts him, he will order the Ring to make him jump off a cliff or into fire.
ArPharazonV: 7 volumes.
VardaValar1: hehehe
VardaValar1: at least. : )
turinofVG: The thing is who to write? I've already seen a couple series marred by people attempting to continue the work (though not always under the sincerest of intentions
VardaValar1: Gollum bites off Frodo's finger with the Ring on it, the Ring thinks it's on Frodo's finger (and it is), and does the order. Oops.
VardaValar1: No one should write it. : )
turinofVG: Sort of like footnotes you mean then
VardaValar1: I was hoping PJ would put a voice-over of Frodo's voice when Gollum bites off the finger.
VardaValar1: That would have been of the order placed on the Ring. : )
VardaValar1: All it needed.
turinofVG: Thing is I don't think Frodo gave the order or threat previously in the film
turinofVG: but I could be wrong
VardaValar1: Gollum is not the hero destroying the Ring like a lot of people see it, but is only there to save Frodo.
turinofVG: However when you mentioned that intent of Frodo's, I immediately thought that I can see that much more from the film than what I saw in the book
VardaValar1: But that is what the film needed. And when Gollum held the Ring, it still should've had Frodo's finger in it.
ArPharazonV: But then they wouldn't be able to do that shot where they zoom out through the Ring!
turinofVG: That wouldn't of made censors happy though
VardaValar1: Sad to say, but that could have improved showing what the book was meant to show. Just keep in that bit of the order and do a voice-over.
VardaValar1: True, Turin.
VardaValar1: They got away with a lot of orc blood because it was black. Red blood was a no-no.
VardaValar1: Must have the zoom shot, Phar, aye. : )
VardaValar1: Frodo didn't think he was going to survive in any case.
VardaValar1: Manwe had to step in for that. Sauron's defenses had to be removed so the eagles could come in.
turinofVG: Hmm, not sure it was that much, Sauron shouldn't of had defenses by that time, ring being destroyed and all
VardaValar1: Right, that's what I meant.
turinofVG: Ah i get what you mean
turinofVG: Only rescue was if Sauron was defeated
VardaValar1: With the Ring destroyed and the place built on it crumbling, and the Nazgul wiped out, then the eagles were able to do the rescue flight. They were already on the border.
ArPharazonV: No rescue unless the Ring is destroyed. Do or die.
VardaValar1: The rescue by the mortal eagles was not possible if the Ring still existed.
Eonwe Valar: Because the Nazgul were in the way.
VardaValar1: The Nazgul were fighthing the eagles on the border already.
VardaValar1: Sauron was ready for them, knew they were there. He was a powerful Maia and would kill them if they came.
VardaValar1: Frodo could only get in by stealth, not seen by the Eye.
Eonwe Valar: Sauron launched his assault sooner than he intended to as well. Gogo Aragorn for getting him to do that :}
VardaValar1: Right!
VardaValar1: His armies were mostly away from Frodo or busy. Frodo and Sam even used them to move along.
turinofVG: On that topic, this is what I love about LotRO
VardaValar1: You mean LotR?
Eonwe Valar: According to Denethor, Sauron wouldn't have budged from his throneroom until victory was assured.
ArPharazonV: Which would've made a replaced scene from the movie so much weirder...

turinofVG: No the story of the game. Like the idea that Sauron was also setting up a lot more gambits and forces than just fighting Gondor and Erebor, that everyone was active all around the Fellowship. A very interesting concept
VardaValar1: A hobbit was perfect. No desire for power for the Ring to work through, something Sauron could not comprehend. Stealthy, small. Silent hairy feet.
turinofVG: I know what you mean Phar. I think that was just something that came out of brainstorming of what would be cool. Then they looked at it and though "Why would this make sense?"
VardaValar1: Aye Turin. It made sense.
ArPharazonV: Fladrif says hi, apparently too many things going on to get into the meeting.
VardaValar1: Hiya Flad! Good luck with the chess tournament!
ArPharazonV: passed along
VardaValar1: : )
VardaValar1: A lot was going on around the Fellowship.
VardaValar1: The Grey Company was on the move to join Aragorn.
VardaValar1: That did leave the Shire unprotected from the things that would freeze the breath in a fat innkeeper of Bree.
VardaValar1: Saruman was taking over the Shire.
turinofVG: Even things not so detailed. Invading and scrimmaging against Dol Guldor so the Fellowship can leave unmarked
VardaValar1: Elrond sent scouts to check all paths.
VardaValar1: Mirkwood and Dol Guldur fighting.
VardaValar1: Lorien under siege, beating it back three times.
VardaValar1: A mention was made that the Dwarves were also too busy fighting on their borders to come to Helm's Deep.
VardaValar1: No way elves could get free to come to Helm's Deep.
VardaValar1: But they had plenty of huorns. : )
turinofVG: Which I now have a healthier fear of
VardaValar1: hehehe

VardaValar1: Huorns aren't actually evil, as is sometimes suggested. But they are dangerous.
ArPharazonV: Would Old Man Willow count as a Huorn?
VardaValar1: An oddity in Fangorn forest was that some trees were becoming more entish, and some ents were becoming more treeish.
VardaValar1: That's a good question. A huorn? An ent gone partly mad?
turinofVG: I would bet on an ent gone treeish
VardaValar1: He seemed to remain rooted, but could he have walked?
VardaValar1: Turin, very likely.
VardaValar1: There was at least one tree seen walking.
VardaValar1: I kept expecting Merry and Pippin to tell that to Treebeard.
turinofVG: Was that in the old forest? I thought that was something in the Northfarthing report to Sam in an inn.
VardaValar1: They might have thought the Battle of the Hedge not a topic to mention just then either.
VardaValar1: Aye, that was the North Farthing, I think.
ArPharazonV: At least Peter Jackson made the connection, putting a form of Old Man Willow in Fangorn ;-)
turinofVG: And a line of Tom Bombadil to Treebeard
VardaValar1: Were they the missing Entwives seen walking in the North Farthing? We know they would eventually meet in the west, and that was west of Fangorn forest.
VardaValar1: True and true. : )
VardaValar1: A nice tip of the hat to us fans. : )
VardaValar1: The assumption is the Uttermost West, but it could've just meant west. : )
turinofVG: Wait, where was that written?
VardaValar1: Treebeard said the Shire would've pleased the Entwives.
VardaValar1: And in good news, if the Entwives were acting more like walking wild trees than settled crop growers, they might have had more common ground with the Ents at last.
VardaValar1: A prophecy
ArPharazonV: If the Ents were more at home with the trees, and the Entwives with crops... I could almost imagine them as living, walking cabbages.
VardaValar1: Let's see. Did Treebeard mention the prophecy?
ArPharazonV: Shaped as those they would shepherd.
VardaValar1: hehehehe
turinofVG: Cabbage huorons
VardaValar1: Fimbrethil was also called Wand-limbed.
turinofVG: Perilous Potatoes
VardaValar1: Willows are said to have wands as limbs, so I'm guessing she was a willow type. Not a cabbage or tater. ^^
VardaValar1: But that would be hilarious.
ArPharazonV: Too bad, could've been an amusing possibility.
VardaValar1: JRRT was very big on inferences for us to figure out, sometimes maybe too obscure as with Frodo. But we can pick up a lot.
VardaValar1: Wand-limbed is one of those.
turinofVG: Given the related origins of Ents and Dwarves, and the nature of Dwarven women, perhaps old man willow was an entwife?
ArPharazonV: I have to say I was also a bit inspired by the Bored of the Rings, a LotR parody, that replaced the ents with living vegetables.
VardaValar1: This meeting is getting really late for our European folks, so maybe we should move our chat to After-meeting.
VardaValar1: After-meeting.
VardaValar1: The name Old Man Willow suggests he was not an Entwife. : )
Eonwe Valar: hehe
ArPharazonV: Well I doubt he/she named him/herself.
turinofVG: Well, who named him? Perhaps one who is not able to tell
ArPharazonV: Maybe tom couldn't tell the difference.
VardaValar1: Bored of the Rings - any parody is good for a fresh perspective, make one think out of the old ruts. : )
turinofVG: Tom might not of cared
Eonwe Valar: Tom Bombadil seems to be pretty in-tune with his little domain.
turinofVG: Hmm
VardaValar1: Tom would know if anyone did. : ) And he had a beautiful Goldberry so he knew what a lady was.
VardaValar1: Tom's songs are also loaded with odd inferences, interesting to try to sort out.
Eonwe Valar: What Varda said, hehe. If any enigmatic and uncategorizable character would know the difference between Ents and Entwives, I'm placing my bets on Tom.
VardaValar1: I also wonder, since Gandalf knew Tom and was going to go visit him after the War, if the two of them made sure the Ents and Entwives finally met? Probably get Radagast in on it.
ArPharazonV: Hmmyes, could've done with some closure on that account.
VardaValar1: That was more inference, I think.
VardaValar1: The movies were worse about closure, heh. Never says what happens to a lot of the Fellowship members. The books tell you though, and the Appendices.
ArPharazonV: Well that's more scenes cut out, I think they had some ideas for the rest of the Fellowship. A scene of Gimli in the glittering caves comes to mind.
VardaValar1: PJ did make some short clips to show what happened to Gimli and Legolas. Can't imagine why they weren't included. I never saw a finished version of one, just started clips.
VardaValar1: Aye, Phar
VardaValar1: But no bit where Gimli goes with Legolas to Valinor and getting to see Galadriel again.
turinofVG: I mean, it was already a 3 plus hour movie
VardaValar1: Aragorn and Eomer went often to battle together against the smaller messes left after the War of the Rings, with Faramir acting as Aragorn's Steward.
turinofVG: Would have to split it into two to make that complete
VardaValar1: ok : )
VardaValar1: And bring back intermissions! Sell more drinks and popcorn. ^^
turinofVG: Hence why I'm excited about the Hobbit. Jackson couldn't do that first time around since he sold the concept for the movies and filmed them all at once
Eonwe Valar: Well they didn't really display Gimli's reverence for Galadriel's beauty in the movies if I recall, so perhaps they saw no point in showing them going to Valinor.
ArPharazonV: She gave me three..
turinofVG: They did that in a scene left out of Fellowship
ArPharazonV: Yeah, the gifts were in the Extended Edition.
VardaValar1: They did show Gimli stammering and talking about the hair she gave him. It was nifty. : ) It was in the canoe talking to Legolas.
Eonwe Valar: Ah. Been too long since I've watched the extended editions then.
VardaValar1: You have an excuse!
ArPharazonV: Now you just need the time.
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: Aye on both accounts.
VardaValar1: Run it while you're doing something else. : )
VardaValar1: Ok folks, we ran long.
VardaValar1: Thank you so much for a very fun conversation! This was delightful. : )
VardaValar1: Now go turn on the movie. ;-)
VardaValar1: Three hours til bedtime for Eonwe. : )
VardaValar1: ./duck
ArPharazonV: three? Oh come on, with all the Extended Editions, it'll be 11-12 hours
VardaValar1: heh, now I want to watch it. Nothing good on TV except Dr. Who re-runs.
ArPharazonV: Could be good if they're from 30 years ago.
VardaValar1: One at a time? Another tomorrow? Or pull an all-nighter!
Eonwe Valar: hehe

turinofVG: By the way, dont forget trivia questions on the forum
Eonwe Valar: Aye :}
VardaValar1: Thanks Turin

VardaValar1: and Happy Birthday today to Elwing!
ArPharazonV: Congrats!
Eonwe Valar: Happy Birthday to Elwing :}
Glorfindel VG has left the room.
ArPharazonV: well, saving and sending transcript

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