September 18, 2011 Sunday Meeting
5pm EDT (GMT - 5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
Back to News
Transcript work by Ar-Pharazon and Varda.
Attending: (7)
AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Eonwe Valar (chair),
fladrifv, Galdor-(V)/galdorandwe, Indis-(V)/karakedi25, VardaValar1
Before-meeting:
Meeting begins
Membership:
Nellas
Irmo
Indis
Web:
Arien: visited the onering.net chatroom
Gaming:
WoW previews for new tiers, reports
LotRO
Other gaming
Tolkien:
Arien's topic: Cair Andros during the War of the Ring
After-meeting:
WoW group ran dungeons for their Sunday night get-together.
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Before-meeting:
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya :-)
Eonwe Valar: Heya.
Eonwe Valar: Afk for a moment.
VardaValar1: same - fighting
AriehnV has entered the room.
AriehnV: aiya all :-)
VardaValar1: Aiya Arien :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya
ArPharazonV: I didn't disconnect or anything did I?
Eonwe Valar: Back.
ArPharazonV: ah
Eonwe Valar: OK, let's go ahead and begin the meeting.
VardaValar1: heya
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Eonwe Valar: Elen Sila Lumenn Omentielvo!
Eonwe Valar: Nellas' birthday was this week.
Eonwe Valar: GSMU repsponses are still coming in. I hope to get the latest batch up as soon as possible.
Eonwe Valar: Any other Membership news?
VardaValar1: back
VardaValar1: Pardon, made a mad dash out of the instance, *puff*.
Eonwe Valar: WB :}
VardaValar1: Thanks :-)
AriehnV: something between member , web and tolkien i guess lol , maybe more web though
VardaValar1: Irmo's birthday was the 13th :-)
AriehnV: congratulations to all :-)
VardaValar1: Indis is on her last day in Jordan before heading home, now in LotRO.
VardaValar1: I'm done.
Eonwe Valar: Thanks.
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Eonwe Valar: Web:
Eonwe Valar: Nothing new for the Games Site right now.
VardaValar1: (Galadriel article not finished formatting, my apologies.)
AriehnV: just a tiny mention from me, not really sure where it belongs really but i suppose we can fit it in here ...
AriehnV: if i may , good Eonwe?
Eonwe Valar: Aye, go ahead.
AriehnV: i had tiny visit in the onering.net chatroom
AriehnV: stayed for about ten minutes or though , from what ive seen
they have similar chatguidelines as we have (being courteous, no
swearing , no calling names no arguing) and are slightly less
intellectual than we are
AriehnV: but seem a nice bunch
VardaValar1: (bashes a monster with a club, being intellectual)
AriehnV: they have tolkien trivia as well in a chatroom called the
Green Dragon but i didnt actually stay that , i was just a wee bit
curious so i had this peek in
AriehnV: thats it from me ^^
Eonwe Valar: Interesting Arien :}
VardaValar1: Thanks. :-)
ArPharazonV: Ooh, trivia.
ArPharazonV: Remember the trivia bot thing we visited some time ago?
Eonwe Valar: Aye :}
VardaValar1: Yes
VardaValar1: Tolkien Gateway
VardaValar1: We visited several times.
AriehnV: from what i could gather is that they give a set theme which
they discuss more or less concentrated ( a tolkien topic of course)
AriehnV: and a moderator present who keeps an eye on everything
AriehnV: but i dont remember this bot :-\
Eonwe Valar: We have a link to the guy's page in our Tolkien links.
VardaValar1: Aye, kind of like our going through the books but we use that as default so we can hit other things too.
VardaValar1: What day is their chat?
AriehnV: saturday
VardaValar1: Thanks
Eonwe Valar: Any other Web news before we move on to Gaming?
VardaValar1: Like tonight would be FotR Ch. 5 "A Conspiracy Unmasked"
VardaValar1: A story is in the works from Jay of Lasgalen with more than one chapter, first in.
VardaValar1: That's all I have to mention.
Eonwe Valar: Thanks.
AriehnV: also have to overdo my story ^^
VardaValar1: Be a while til Oct 4, np. :-)
AriehnV: thanks to the kind review of Eonwe which mentioned things i didnt consider alas
VardaValar1: A beta is a wonderful luxury to have!
Eonwe Valar: *bow*
AriehnV: *salute*
AriehnV: (their Barliman's Chat seems to be permanent just did a wee check)
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}
AriehnV: guess depends on how many come on and who what is going on but that s it from that bank ^^
Eonwe Valar: OK, let's move on to gaming.
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Eonwe Valar: Gaming:
Eonwe Valar: WoW:
Eonwe Valar: Blizzard has released several more previews for the Tier 13 sets.
Eonwe Valar: Well, maybe not *several* more.. Druid and Mage.
Eonwe Valar: And Shaman.
VardaValar1: Three = several, so yes. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Also, apparently the WoW magazine Blizzard had going in partnership with FutureUS has been cancelled at issue #5.
VardaValar1: ouch
Eonwe Valar: If you subscribed to it, you likely already know this
though, from the e-mail sent (I did not subscribe, I merely heard about
it :})
Eonwe Valar: (From MMO-champion, which is usually a good source)
Eonwe Valar: Last note before moving to Lothar Reports: Tomorrow is Pirate's Day in WoW.
VardaValar1: Also in LotRO. :-)
VardaValar1: Start near the Brandywine Bridge.
Eonwe Valar: Lothar:
Eonwe Valar: Sunday Report:
karakedi25 has left the room.
karakedi25 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Indis
karakedi25: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: Attending: Eonwe, Varda, Fangorn, Arien, Bilbo, ElwingThis
week we ran some level 70 instances to get credit for those who hadn't
got the credit yet.We ended up running the Hellfire Citadel, Coilfang
Reservoir, and Auchindoun instances. Arien had to go after the Hellfire
Citadel instances, and BIlbo called it in the midst of the Coilfang
Reservoir instances. Elwing stepped in shortly after Bilbo left. Eonwe
Valar: Friday Report:
Eonwe Valar: I was kept from staying too long due to storms in my area,
but saw Varda and Fangorn on in the short time I popped in.
Eonwe Valar: News page says Elwing was also in and Scholomance was run.
VardaValar1: While you were out, we had a Scholomance run.
Eonwe Valar: I hope it was a fun run :}
VardaValar1: Successful :-)
VardaValar1: Sauron was in that run too.
AriehnV: i got my Drood to 84 and moving to Uldum now but been resting
her up this week to get over the long gap between 84 and /5 faster
Eonwe Valar: Today's plan is to hit the lvl 80 quick-shot dragon raids:
Obsidian Sanctum, Ruby Sanctum, Eye of Eternity, and Onyxia's Lair.
AriehnV: nice :-)
ArPharazonV: I've decided to resume Archeology again. I'm going for a
blue bug-ish set for transmogrification (the tier 2.5 recolor from
AQ40) and it seems the Ultramarine Qiraji tank is the best mount to fit.
Eonwe Valar: I posted a note in the news to practice on the "Aces
High!" daily so that we could hopefully get the timed achievement on
Malygos this round.
ArPharazonV: So Tol'vir archeology it is :-)
VardaValar1: Cool Phar
AriehnV: :-)
Eonwe Valar: Good luck :}
AriehnV: i need to get to over 475 to do the cata archeology but working on it :-) on justi
Eonwe Valar: OK, on to the LotRO reports, and for those I give the floor to Varda.
VardaValar1: Thank you, Eonwe.
VardaValar1: Monday we warmed up collecting Helegrod marks in two wings with a seven man raid,
VardaValar1: then moved to Grand Stairs completing hard mode. Melkor
got the Painted Vane, handy against ranged damage in the top dungeon of
Ost Dunhoth.
VardaValar1: Wednesday we again ran Helegrod for marks, then
VardaValar1: completed Sixteenth Hall.
VardaValar1: We went in for the class quest for Maedhros' rune-keeper
but got carried away since we had time, and used the chance to let
Nimrodel's tank practice and Gildor's healer practice. They both did
well, with Pippin helping as off-tank.
VardaValar1: Some of us in LotRO are trying to clear Volume three so
we'll be ready for the expansion coming so soon. Also, we're trying to
get our traits up to the upcoming cap of 12.
VardaValar1: Pirate's Day questing is tomorrow. :-) Start at the Brandywine Bridge if it's like before.
VardaValar1: Any other LotRO comments?
ArPharazonV: Oh, right, it's that time of the year again.
VardaValar1: Also for WoW.
ArPharazonV: Must prepare to talk like a pirate in WoW channels.
VardaValar1: :-)
VardaValar1: We have Corsairs as pirates, so it works in Middle-earth too.
AriehnV: hehe i was questing a wee bit on the burglar in LotrO and
getting on some of the quests towards Elendil's tomb and working on
tomb robber stuff
Eonwe Valar: Thanks for the reports, Varda :}
AriehnV: during that i got to ally with the Wardens of Annuminas
Eonwe Valar: Congrats :}
VardaValar1: We still plan to run the Tomb of Elendil, but it appears it will be without Pippin, so we can quit waiting for him.
AriehnV: i ve got that open on the hunter too if i didnt abandon it . pfft its impossible to find a pug for it
VardaValar1: It's something nice to run for kin.
AriehnV: :-)
VardaValar1: It's a one-time usually, reason it's not easy to get a pug.
AriehnV: i see
AriehnV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Any other gaming news before we move to Tolkien?
VardaValar1: BroodWar team up for Fangorn, Sauron and Varda was quite fun. :-)
AriehnV has entered the room.
AriehnV: woops i did it again ... or something
Eonwe Valar: WB Arien :} Just asked for any other gaming news.
ArPharazonV: Did more SCII myself, 3v3 and 4v4, still top of the Bronze League on the latter :-)
AriehnV: aiya indis by the way :-)
ArPharazonV: I wonder what it takes to get into Silver.
AriehnV: i am sure you will find out hehe
AriehnV: bit eve as usual , but no sight of Menel or Pallando :-(
VardaValar1: SC2 by Bilbo and Sauron also
Eonwe Valar: Gears of War 3 comes out Tuesday at midnight, for those of you into FPS games.
VardaValar1: Thanks, good mention.
Eonwe Valar: Actually, Gears of War is more TPS (Third-Person Shooter) than FPS. You get an over-the-shoulder perspective.
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Eonwe Valar: Tolkien:
Eonwe Valar: Tonight, Arien has a topic for us. :}
AriehnV: *bows and flares to get attention*
AriehnV: While working on my story i came across some little military
details i would need for making out an essential content within it so
to say :-)
fladrifv has entered the room.
AriehnV: I did some websearch and had a look in Tolkiens Atlas to see
what they would give on that but not much success there. Some seem to
say that it is a full city that has been abandoned a few centuries
before the war of the ring, but has been refortified by Denethors Great
Grandfather Turin II.
VardaValar1: Cair Andros (Sindarin: ship long-foam), it's an island.
VardaValar1: Aiya Fladrif :-)
VardaValar1: Cair Andros is the topic.
AriehnV: yes about ten miles long , and mostly forested according to
one website which p;uts me a bit off the notion that a fully fledged
city with streets and castle and halls and amenities would fit on it
fladrifv: Aiya
AriehnV: much less that it was connected by two bridges to the mainland
VardaValar1: It was fortified, so it at least had a fort.
AriehnV: aye , thats what i would think a centril broch like tower with ceveral sturdy tents maybe
AriehnV: i agree that it would have had to have docks however since
after the battle of the morannon they transpoted the supplies from
Minas Tirith for the victory feast
VardaValar1: Seems like more than tents, reckon? If it was supposed to
protect Anorien from attack from the east. Gondor had fairly deep
pockets.
AriehnV: so maybe baracks
AriehnV: and a stable ? and a wall around it ?
ArPharazonV: And a moat? Oh wait, that's where the river comes in..
VardaValar1: Anduin river, getting to double as a moat, hehe.
ArPharazonV: Just needs some alligators. Or piranhas.
VardaValar1: The current hit the high front part like a prow so it had a lot of foam.
AriehnV: yup hence the name
VardaValar1: Aye. Had to be a spectacular place. :-)
ArPharazonV: It had large ruins in Battle for Middle-Earth, right?
ArPharazonV: Not that that's anywhere near canon :-)
AriehnV: but if there was a wall around it ,.. so i figured it would
probably not in the best shape have been recently taken over by the the
Easterlings
AriehnV: probably already breached
VardaValar1: It would depend on the time of your game/story. TA 2900 was when it was fortified.
VardaValar1: It was attacked during the War of the Ring
AriehnV: aye we are talking about the retaking after the Battle on the
Pelennor Fields .. you know that Aragorn sent about well .. 500 or 1000
soldiers to retake the island since he believed it still in the hands
of the enemy
VardaValar1: That deserved a story. Thanks for working on it. :-)
AriehnV: i am not sure tho which number is right .. someone mentioned
an early trial version of the chapter or a notice of JRR that seems to
suggest 500 as number
VardaValar1: Would the Easterlings have had any reason to expect an attack?
ArPharazonV: Those are the ones he dismissed from the battle at the Gate, right?
AriehnV: aye
AriehnV: the force that took Cair Andros consisted of Orcs and Easterlings, about 6000 strong
VardaValar1: RotK "Black Gate Opens"
AriehnV: but on the approach of the army of the West to the Gate id think at least the orcs would have returned there
galdorandwe has entered the room.
AriehnV: i get the impression that Sauron ordered all his forces into Mordor
galdorandwe: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aragorn wasn't sure if it was still held.
Eonwe Valar: Sauron had plenty of armies in reserve inside Mordor, so might not be much of a reason to.
ArPharazonV: The force that took Cair Andros.. isn't that the same
force moving west and forcing the Rohirrim to go through the forest?
AriehnV: yup , i thought maybe part of that force left Cair Andros but maybe half of it remained or so
Eonwe Valar: He did leave a force at the Cross Roads in the case of attack from behind, however.
VardaValar1: Aiya Galdor :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
VardaValar1: Cair Andros is the topic.
AriehnV: aiya Galdor :-)
galdorandwe: Thanks Varda...feeling slightly like chopped livr here :-)
galdorandwe: Johnny-come-lately I know..
VardaValar1: awww
AriehnV: so basically whatever way the numbers would be slightly at bad odds ..
galdorandwe: Just finished cooking dinner
VardaValar1: Aragorn sent some of his army to Cair Andros to retake it if it was still held.
ArPharazonV: Unless the majority left, Arien, like the force I
mentioned above, or they might even have been drawn into the Pelennor
battle.
galdorandwe: The folks that lost their nerve along the march to the Morranon?
Eonwe Valar: OK, idea of numbers: The Army of the West left Minas
Tirith with 7000 soldiers. By the time he reached the Black Gate, they
had less than 6000.
VardaValar1: These men couldn't face the horror on the road to Mordor.
Young men from Rohan, the Westfold, husbandmen from Lossarnach.
AriehnV: originally that force was sent into cair andros to stop the
riders of rohan from reaching pelennor in time to save minas tirith
AriehnV: but ghan buri ghan managed to lead the Rohirimm around that
VardaValar1: So they would not include Gonrodians much.
AriehnV: so they still made it ^^
VardaValar1: Aye, says less than 6000 left to go to the Black Gate.
VardaValar1: Gondorians. (sp)
galdorandwe: Fill me in, please..are we talking before the defense of Minas Tirith or after?
ArPharazonV: But that would mean they were not longer on Cair Andros,
Arien :-) and I do believe the Rohirrim took out that force after the
battle, so none would be left to return to Cair Andros.
VardaValar1: These folks were from far away, Mordor was a childhood scary tale, had always seemed unreal.
AriehnV: after the battle on the pelennor fields
Eonwe Valar: 3000 Rohirrim separate from those going to Mordor had been
sent under Elfhelm to "waylay the West Road against the enemy that was
in Anorien."
ArPharazonV: Yes. That.
galdorandwe: Ahhh. Aragorn did indeed dismiss a considerable amount to
retake CA after the ambush.....just how many, I am uncertain.
VardaValar1: These soldiers were told to retake it if needed and hold
it to the last in defence of Gondor and Rohan. So they had a manly deed
within their power.
AriehnV: something between 500 and 1000 according to the sources i found
VardaValar1: The Nazgul were flying overhead over Aragorn's army, so there was a lot of dread coming off of them, a weapon too.
VardaValar1: Web sources only or did they say where they got their numbers?
AriehnV: hmm someone mention an early version with a note by J.R. R. himself
AriehnV: that was the 500
galdorandwe: the atlas of ME gives siome cited sources for numbers...is that reliable?
AriehnV: (i think we can rule out the full city version as some fans
overactive imagination .. the island is too small for that )
VardaValar1: I see where you got the 7000. It's the last page of the previous chapter: RotK "The Last Debate".
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
VardaValar1: The Atlas is fairly reliable, but we have found some errors, so we double-check it when we can.
Eonwe Valar: Galdor: We can check out the sources cited and decide from there if they're reliable.
galdorandwe: Honestly, how big was the force heading out of Gondor to begin with?
Eonwe Valar: That's the nice thing about having sources, heh.
ArPharazonV: The Atlas is pretty good in its source-mentioning, yes.
Eonwe Valar: 7000 Galdor.
VardaValar1: 7000 heading out. 6000 arrived.
Eonwe Valar: Less than 6000 arrived.
VardaValar1: Aye, less than 6000.
VardaValar1: So around 1000 could have gone to Cair Andros.
Eonwe Valar: Presumably close enough to 6000, that a smaller number was not a better description.
VardaValar1: Aye, rounding numbers here. :-)
Eonwe Valar: My instinct would tell me within a couple hundred.
VardaValar1: It's unlikely that they would have had many deserters from
the ~1000 either, as it was their way of redeeming their honor.
Eonwe Valar: A "strong force" was left at the Cross Roads, mostly of archers familiar with Ithilien.
ArPharazonV: "I have good news and bad news.... the good news is that
you're free to go from the upcoming suicidal battle. The bad news is
I'm going to give you another potentially suicial mission. Have fun!"
galdorandwe: So....what does that translate to interms of head-to-head
combat? I recall reading once about the account of Isildur's losing of
the ring in the cladden fields where the men were tall and could
out-match orcs 3-1 or more...could the same be said for those in CA?
VardaValar1: The vanguard rode ahead, but didn't the others catch up later?
ArPharazonV: *suicidal
VardaValar1: wheee - time for the movie quote from Gimli. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Not all those who were afraid of seeing Mordor left the
main force either. Some took renewed courage from Aragorn's compassion.
ArPharazonV: Certainty of death, small chance of success..
ArPharazonV: what are we waiting for?
galdorandwe: what are we waiting for?
VardaValar1: Anyway, like Galdor said, Gandalf in the book said "there are names among us that are worth more than a thousand mail-clad knights apiece"
VardaValar1: Aye, hehe.
ArPharazonV: Must be very reassuring if you're one of those thousand knights.
galdorandwe: Side note: how nervous was Sauron when Aragarn announced himself on March 15th?
AriehnV: i think that these returners would rejoin the archers
galdorandwe: date might be wrong...
ArPharazonV: 25, I believe.
galdorandwe: I recall March 15th...could be when the joint attacks happened.
ArPharazonV: could be 15.
galdorandwe: like gondor and lothlorien
AriehnV: since theyd probably need guidance past henneth anun or maybe a short rest before the actual attack
galdorandwe: and erebor
galdorandwe: anyway...Aragorn's announcement would have been big.
VardaValar1: Aye, found what Eonwe said. "So
the next day, when the main host came up, they set a strong guard upon
the Cross-roads to make some defence, if Mordor should send a force
over the Morgul Pass, or should bring more men up from the South."
galdorandwe: Hold on a sec...Aragorn left a good number of folks guarding he Morgal vale......how many?
VardaValar1: "For the guard they
chose mostly archers who knew the ways of Ithilien and would lie hid in
the woods and slopes about the meeting of the ways."
VardaValar1: That doesn't sound like a whole lot, really.
galdorandwe: after the bridge to Mina Morgul was destroyed, how many were needed?
ArPharazonV: Could be comparable to Faramir's rangers during the Two Towers period, I suppose. Rangers lying in wait in a reasonable radius around the Crossroads.
VardaValar1: It sounds exactly like they were using some of Faramir's rangers.
ArPharazonV: In numbers, too, I mean.
ArPharazonV: I would assume they actually used Faramir's rangers, or what was left of them.
galdorandwe: any gauge on numbers?
VardaValar1: Possibly look up Faramir's rangers and see if it has numbers.
ArPharazonV: Enough to man the hidden cave systems a-plenty, and
widespread enough to spot 3 travellers making their way south through
the big ol' forests of Ithilien.
VardaValar1: More were lost when they had a little skirmish, an
attempted ambush spotted by Aragorn's scouts. Probably lost a few there.
galdorandwe: the refuge could succor 200 rangers....guess it might be more for this one though.
Eonwe Valar: I don't see anything about a guard left at the Morgul Vale..
VardaValar1: All I can figure is Galdor means the one at the Crossing, by Morgul Vale.
galdorandwe: After they went there, Aragorn left a group there tp guard against an attack from there.
VardaValar1: The one I just quoted.
galdorandwe: Then he headed North
galdorandwe: how many?
galdorandwe: fair questiom\n
VardaValar1: The army went a little away from the Crossing, looked on
Minas Morgul, broke the bridge. But it was at a little distance from
the Crossing where they left the archers.
VardaValar1: Some of the scouts the main army was using could have rangers out of Ithilien, and possibly Grey Company rangers.
VardaValar1: Yep, there it is.
VardaValar1: "scouts, skilled men from Henneth Annun led by Mablung"
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
VardaValar1: So not all the Ithilien rangers were left at the Crossing, so it was less.
Eonwe Valar: All we can really be sure of from LotR
alone, so far as I can tell, is that a "strong force" was left at the
Cross Roads, so probably a force of a few hundreds. We have no numbers
for casualties in the one battle they fought before reaching the Black
Gate, but given the good report we have of it, it was probably less
than a hundred.
VardaValar1: It was likely a small loss. They were quite ready for the ambush and strong.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, and even a hundred men would be a significant loss for a force of 6 thousand.
VardaValar1: They figured it was probably a feint to test their
numbers. They might have lost very few or none from Aragorn's force.
AriehnV: so my fainthearted could have joined with tose
AriehnV: those
VardaValar1: This occurred before the loss of the faint-hearted.
AriehnV: yeah but on returning on the road
VardaValar1: ahh, I see.
VardaValar1: Those left to guard at the Crossing would have stayed there.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, the guard left at the Cross Roads were given no such leave to join in the fight at Cair Andros.
ArPharazonV: Aye, they couldn't have left the Crossroads empty until the fall of Baraddur.
VardaValar1: Right.
AriehnV: true
ArPharazonV: Or even then, who knows what remains?
AriehnV: well .. Aragorn seems to think that Cair Andros was in the hands of enemy forces, Easterlings likely
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
AriehnV: but not a very sizeable force but maybe still enough to outnumber the returners#
VardaValar1: He said it might be in their hands, and if so should be retaken. Mainly he wanted it held for the future.
Eonwe Valar: He also seemed to think that those who were fainthearted could manage the retaking.
VardaValar1: They were fine for normal fighting. Nazgul dread and the other horrors along the way were not usual.
AriehnV: it seems fairly evident that the retaking WAS successful since it was the supply base for the feast at cormallen
ArPharazonV: How would he have known it was? He didn't even if the enemy held it, let alone what kind of numbers they had.
VardaValar1: He said he didn't know. He just wanted it held for later.
ArPharazonV: *didn't even know
ArPharazonV: So for all he knew they could've been outnumbering them 10 to 1.
AriehnV: hmmm so thats up to my literary freedom then :-)
Eonwe Valar: I'd say he could've used the Palantir to gather new intel
before marching to Mordor, but even if he didn't, he'd been along the
coasts not long before. His intel wouldn't be too new, but he would
still be able to make good guesses.
AriehnV: he probably didnt have any time to think of that
ArPharazonV: Why not? It was a long march, many days travel.
AriehnV: six days
ArPharazonV: Fine. "Several" days travel.
karakedi25: namarie!
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well Indis.
VardaValar1: Namarie Indis :-)
AriehnV: Namarie Indis have a safe journey home
ArPharazonV: namarie!
karakedi25: thanks
karakedi25 has left the room.
AriehnV: cair andros would be about how many travel days from the desolation before Mordor?
AriehnV: two maybe?
Eonwe Valar: If there were no hope of retaking Cair Andros without a
full army, I don't think Aragorn would've sent those men to their
deaths, is my larger point.
VardaValar1: Aye, it was not intended to be a hopeless mission. His was though.
ArPharazonV: There is always hope!
Eonwe Valar: :}
AriehnV: who sais that 1: 2 outnumberng is impossible to turn round?
Eonwe Valar: It's not.
AriehnV: thats what i mean :-)
AriehnV: just need the tactics for it
Eonwe Valar: It depends on the relative ability of each side, aye.
ArPharazonV: Challenge ratings :-)
ArPharazonV: sorry, D&D term. Been reading the Warcraft RPG books again.
AriehnV: hehe
VardaValar1: =)
AriehnV: what kind of acces do we have? a ford like crossing from the
east side and the river deepening and a stronger current on the other
side of the "hull"?
AriehnV: could it be waded or would they have to swim to the island?
VardaValar1: Would they need boats? And from where? This is the Anduin.
Might be a really good place to pull out that Atlas for depth. :-)
AriehnV: och aye i have
AriehnV: henneth annun is the base they would have to their disposal ,
hence i think they d have at least one or two men who know the area
VardaValar1: They could have been given excellent instructions before setting out.
AriehnV: the distance is not very far from there and the atlas doesnt give much information on this
AriehnV: could have aye
VardaValar1: It's quite likely, in fact.
AriehnV: if not at the splitting maybe from the scouts at the crossroads even if the scouts themselves stayed
AriehnV: Never mind thanks for the contribution in the discussion :-) i think it is time for the wow run :-)
VardaValar1: Thank you very much everyone for coming and for helping out. : )
VardaValar1: This was fun, something I haven't thought much about. Thank you, Arien. :-)
AriehnV: *bows*
Eonwe Valar: I was holding off interrupting the ongoing chat, but if is
willingly concluded, I shall bang the gavel and let us move to
Aftermeeting.
ArPharazonV: Well, it just shows how many more minor events took place that we can delve into, filling any gaps ourselves.
ArPharazonV: Must be why there's so much fanfiction :-)
Eonwe Valar: Hehe
VardaValar1: JRRT said he wanted us to play in his backyard, add to the mythos. : )
AriehnV: thats the nice thing about JRR. and enabling us to do just that hehe
VardaValar1: We try to aid that with our Tolkien Site, honoring the Professor.
VardaValar1: He gave us sooo much to work with!
Eonwe Valar: Aye, and I try to show my respect by adhering to his Theme as best I may :}
VardaValar1: And I.
VardaValar1: A favorite story form for me is the Hole-filler, which Arien is working on.
Eonwe Valar: Thank you for the Tolkien topic, Arien :}
AriehnV: My Pleasure :-D
Eonwe Valar: *Raises gavel into the air*
Eonwe Valar: *Swings gavel earthward*
Eonwe Valar: *Bang*
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Eonwe Valar: Aftermeeting :}
VardaValar1: Wheee
VardaValar1: *flies into the lower Ilmen*
AriehnV: you have to admit , Phara , that sending an army to an
unmanned island and have them sitting around until the victory feast
makes a slightly boring story and is not very heroic ^^
AriehnV: so i ll give them something to do
AriehnV: ;-)
ArPharazonV: Aye, that is true. There could be some Orcs remaining :-)
VardaValar1: They could also have needed to do a defense. It was not for nothing they were there.
AriehnV: indeed
AriehnV: i ll find something no worries
ArPharazonV: Handful of Orcs sitting around a fire "Hah, did you hear?
All those Gondorian knights are heading straight for Mordor. We can
keep this place for ourselves!" Suddenly, 500 men rush into the ruins...
VardaValar1: ack!
VardaValar1: And we were going to set up a little bandit business based from here. Rats.
ArPharazonV: Well, we know that inner conflict and disagreement and
Orcs with ambiguous loyalties were common. Wouldn't be surprised if a
few bands struck out on their own when Sauron was defeated, or was
being defeated.
VardaValar1: They mentioned a desire to do that.
VardaValar1: Aragorn and Eomer took their armies out together to handle messes like that after the War of the Ring.
ArPharazonV: Can imagine a few holding on to a place like Cair Andros for their own intentions.
VardaValar1: I'd be amazed if Gimli and Legolas didn't add some of their forces to help with that.
VardaValar1: More fanfic material. ;-)
Eonwe Valar: The Dwarves of Erebor might have their hands full keeping
the remnants of the enemies sieging them from setting up banditries in
their locale.
Eonwe Valar: Possible in Mirkwood as well, and in Lorien with whatever Elves remained there after the departure of Galadriel.
VardaValar1: The Mirkwood elves were used to taking care of themselves, no Ring for defense or stagnation.
Eonwe Valar: Though it seemed none of the Elves of Lorien stuck around too long into the Fourth Age.
VardaValar1: Aye, most left after Galadriel did.
VardaValar1: She had them used to a life with a Ring. More like Valinor
than the challenges of Middle-earth. I suspect it was suddenly work.
VardaValar1: I have to *water and fertilize*!
galdorandwe: namarie all..I'm logging off to eat and plat LOtro later....great discussion tonight.
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well and bon apetit :}
VardaValar1: Bye bye!
AriehnV: Namarie Galdor :-)
AriehnV: and enjoy
ArPharazonV: Namarie
AriehnV: happy happy happy *hums*
galdorandwe has left the room.
VardaValar1: See you in WoW!
VardaValar1 has left the room.
AriehnV has left the room.
fladrifv has left the room.
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Last one in the room, saving and sending.
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