Valar Guild

June 27, 2010 Sunday Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by: Ar-Pharazon, Eonwe, and Varda.

 Attending: (7)
    AriehnV, arwenv1, Eonwe Valar (presiding), Gilraen-(V)/Iryenth, Indis-(V)/karakedi25, Menelvagor Valar, VardaValar1
    Pallando-(Valar) in Gmail-chat.

Before-meeting:
Meeting begins
Membership
    Two new Full Members this week: Frodo-(V) and Galdor-(V)
Web:
    New stories:
       The Robin's Tale by Branwyn-(T)
       Meals on Wheels by Jay of Lasgalen
Gaming
Tolkien:
    Eonwe's topic: Legitimacy of Sauron's claim to the Ring, and should he get it back according to other Middle-earth precedents.
    Forum role-play discussion and posting together. Check out a lot of new stuff!
After-meeting:
    A little more rp talk, Pallando said hi from Gmail-chat and may join us in the free to play LotRO this fall.

Before-meeting:
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Ar-Pharazon the Golden!
karakedi25 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Indis
AriehnV has entered the room.
AriehnV: aiya all :-)
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Grretings
Eonwe Valar: Greetings even
karakedi25: Aiya
AriehnV: anyone here?
VardaValar1: Aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya all! Sorry I had to be afk for a while.
VardaValar1: I barely made it in from out of town. Trying to get organized. :-)
AriehnV: aha :-) no worries no great hurry here
arwenv1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: I'll be right back. :-)
VardaValar1: Great to see all of you!
VardaValar1: Eonwe, feel free to go ahead and start so the group won't have to wait any longer.
Eonwe Valar: ok.
Eonwe Valar: Let's begin right now then.
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Eonwe Valar: Elen Sila Lumenn Omentielvo!
Eonwe Valar: Membership:
karakedi25: Elen sila!
Eonwe Valar: 2 new members this week, Frodo and Galdor, both joined us in LotRO.
Iryenth has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: If they were here, I'd ask them to say a few words :}
Eonwe Valar: Any other member news this week?
VardaValar1: back
ArPharazonV: I'm back from England!
ArPharazonV: Had a bit of a WoW-meet there, for a week, wednesday to wednesday
ArPharazonV: lots of fun, but now I'm back for transcripting
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: Welcome back, and I hope you had fun :}
ArPharazonV: as for Varda's question, I am still using an old AIM version, 5.9 I think.
ArPharazonV: yeah, 5.9
ArPharazonV: and I did have fun :-)
VardaValar1: Your transcripts are much cleaner than on the newer versions, thanks.
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Eonwe Valar: If there's no other Member News, on to Web news:
Eonwe Valar: Two new stories up:
Eonwe Valar: "The Robin's Tale" by Branwyn-(T): "How the least of Lord Denethor's servants came to his defense." This short story includes Denethor, Faramir, and Gandalf.
Eonwe Valar: "Meals on Wheels" by Jay of Lasgalen. A dwarf is spotted by orcs that have never seen one before. Drabble.
Eonwe Valar: Nothing new on that Games Site, yet :} I finished LotR:Conquest recently, and intend to put up a review on it as soon as I can.
AriehnV: lol sounds fun
Eonwe Valar: Not all that much, hehe :}
Eonwe Valar: It's ok, but there are better LotR games out there :}
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Eonwe Valar: On to Gaming:
Eonwe Valar: Just for those who don't know, there is a game called "LotR: Aragorn's Quest" coming out (should be this year.) You can find a link on the Games Page under...
Eonwe Valar: Other Gaming > Misc Games > Links.
Eonwe Valar: Oddly, they're coming out with a version everwhere but the XBox 360.
Eonwe Valar: There's another game also, called "LotR: War in the North" that's supposed to be out early next year. It's supposed to be a gritter take on things.
Eonwe Valar: *grittier
Eonwe Valar: For those looking forward to Starcraft 2, it'll be here approximately 1 month from today :}
Eonwe Valar: OK, on to games that are already here :}
Eonwe Valar: WoW:
ArPharazonV: yay, SCII
ArPharazonV: sorry, continue
Eonwe Valar: Patch 3.3.5 is out, bringing with it RealID. I'll let you make your own judgements about RealID, but it's pretty much useless to me.
Eonwe Valar: Lothar: Last Sunday after the meeting, 6-7 of us on Lothar hit Ahn'Qiraj, 20 and 40.
Eonwe Valar: We got through 20, didn't make it past the Twin Emperors in 40. Since it was late, we called it there.
Eonwe Valar: Also of note, Sauron is the first of us the come across and win the Battered Hilt. He's now using Quel'Delar, Lens of the Mind. Even worse, it was the first time he'd seen the Battered Hilt drop :}
Eonwe Valar: So congrats to Sauron :}
ArPharazonV: Congratulations Sauron :-) lucky you
Eonwe Valar: LotRO:
Eonwe Valar: Monday run was in Mirkwood. Don't see a mention of the Wednesday run.
Eonwe Valar: Any other gaming news?
ArPharazonV: Well, I killed the Lich King on 10-man in WoW this week, so now I've got Kingslayer title
ArPharazonV: and somewhere in the past weeks, not sure if it's before or after the last meeting I attended, I reached 9000 achievement points, which meant another feat of strength ;-)
karakedi25: A lot of us got together on Wednesday to run quests in a high level area called Gathburz, just outside Dol Guldur.
AriehnV: Grats :-D i wondered whether u d made it this time , i ve seen u in icc earlier :-)
Eonwe Valar: Aha, Varda tells me we had two groups running the same MIrkwood instance on Wednesday. Warg Pens.
ArPharazonV: I feel like I'm getting pretty much done with Wrath now. I'm still doing a few Wintergrasps (need 14 more victories for Master achievement) and I'm working on the Insane feat still, but that's not very hard work, and can even still be done in Cataclysm with ease. So it's pretty much waiting for the Ruby Sanctum and the reclaiming of Gnomeregan now.
karakedi25: That's a 3-person instance, so there were two groups of three for that. Some of the rest of us grouped for questing.
Eonwe Valar: Also a run through Angmar on Thursday.
VardaValar1: lol - I typed in the wrong window.
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: /facepalm
Eonwe Valar: NP Varda :}
AriehnV: on Auchindoun my Coire stole the flames from the ally capitals and got torch juggler , also iced the frost lord .... On Argent Dawn saving the gearing of Urwendi until Cataclysm, until then i hope to level my priest Ahrienn to 80 :-)
Eonwe Valar: Would you like to mention F2P then, Varda? :}
VardaValar1: I'll let Indis tell that one. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Congrats Arien. Reminds me that I finished the Midsummer Ahievmeents on Auros this week too :}
karakedi25: Has anyone mentioned that LotRO is going Free-to-Play (f2p)?
VardaValar1: LotRO free to play comes out this fall. Indis, would you like to tell more?
Eonwe Valar: It's probably been mentioned before at a meeting, but might as well do it again, and then once more when it actually happens :}
karakedi25: well...
karakedi25: the way it works is, you can play free but with rather a lot of limits on what you can do and what you can have...
karakedi25: for example, free play is only in Eriador, and the book quests. The f2p player will have to buy the expansions.
karakedi25: They will also have to buy things like the horse riding skill...
karakedi25: paying players come in two flavors...
karakedi25: premium players, who pay by the month...
karakedi25: and so-called VIPs,
karakedi25: who include life members and I believe people with continuing subscriptions, keep all the privileges they now have...
karakedi25: and get a few more.
karakedi25: This will make it far more accessible to people who want to come visit or want to try it out.
karakedi25: The new version is in beta testing now.
karakedi25: end of report
Eonwe Valar: Thanks Indis :}
karakedi25: you're welcome
Eonwe Valar: If there is no other Gaming News, we shall move to Tolkien.
VardaValar1: Can anyone reach Fladrif?
VardaValar1: Probably afk.
ArPharazonV: well, he is online... I'll try poking him in MSN
Eonwe Valar: Has he not been sent an invitation? Or just not responding to it?
VardaValar1: okies :-)
VardaValar1: No reaction, including to a tell.
Eonwe Valar: ok.
ArPharazonV: not responding so far
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Eonwe Valar: Tolkien:
Eonwe Valar: Everyone ready for what I've got up my sleeve? :}
VardaValar1: Probably not. Try anyway. :-)
karakedi25: *braces herself*
Eonwe Valar: As you may remember, a few weeks ago we discussed the legitimacy of Fëanor's claim to the Silmarilli.
Eonwe Valar: You may also remember I promised a similar discussion for the next week.
Eonwe Valar: Unfortunately, we didn't get to do it the following week, but we will get it tonight :}
VardaValar1: (I may be gone next weekend.)
ArPharazonV: *is intrigued*
Eonwe Valar: So, for your discussing pleasure, I give you...
Eonwe Valar: Sauron's claim to the Ring :} It appears that his ownership is not in doubt, no matter who currently posseses said Ring, or what his intentions with the Ring are.
VardaValar1: Part of Sauron is within the Ring.
ArPharazonV: Sauron is intimately connected to the Ring, yes. It holds his power and part of his lifeforce. It's simply part of him, though it's a part that can be far away and out of his sight.
ArPharazonV: Even the Ring claims Sauron as its master, so to speak.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, it is part of him, but is that not so with any great creation? The creator gives something of himself, such that they could never again make its like. Certainly Sauron could never make another Ruling Ring.
ArPharazonV: If I took my hand off and hid it somewhere, people can't find it and claim "This isn't your hand anymore, because I found it."
VardaValar1: I agree with Phar. When Frodo's finger was bitten off and Gollum held it, the Ring still reacted as if it were Frodo's finger and that it was not on Gollum's finger.
karakedi25: Isn't the proper distinction between ownership and appropriate use?
ArPharazonV: Nice example, Varda.
karakedi25: Sauron may have claim to the ring, but the rest of the world needs to protect themselves from how he would use it.
ArPharazonV: Does that diminish his claim?
karakedi25: not necessarily, which is why I said there's a distinction.
VardaValar1: It was Sauron's ring as much as if it were his finger. The Ring wanted to return and become one with Sauron again, bending its abilities to that end.
Eonwe Valar: That would be in response to a question I hadn't voiced yet: "If everyone knows it's Sauron's Ring, Wouldn't it then be the right thing to do to give it back to him?"
karakedi25: If a gunsmith makes a splendid pistol and then goes and shoots down people in a shopping mall, it may be his gun, but he's responsible for what he does with it...
Eonwe Valar: Or rather, that question of distinction would respond to the question I hadn';t voiced yet.
karakedi25: and society has to protect itself from them and/or it.
ArPharazonV: "the right thing to do" is a rather strange claim there... the right thing *for who?*
ArPharazonV: It's
karakedi25: I didn't use the term 'right thing.' I did say that others will claim the right to protect themselves from a use of property that injures them
Eonwe Valar: Well, if you lost something, wouldn't it be right if somebody found it and gave it back to you rather than act like it's theirs?
ArPharazonV: Sauron's right to claim the Ring, or own it. But it's not in the best interest for the world for him to do so.
Eonwe Valar: I did, Indis.
karakedi25: so there's more to it than claim of ownership
VardaValar1: Since Sauron is evil and needs destroyed, it is not surprising that a Ring that is part of him also should be destroyed. That does not change that it is Sauron's Ring.
ArPharazonV: It would be legally justified to give Sauron his Ring back, I suppose. It's just not very smart for the majority of the populations.
karakedi25: It is indeed his Ring. But no Free Person in his/her right mind would give it to him.
VardaValar1: Aye, both Sauron and his Ring must be destroyed, so there is no point in making him more whole.
Eonwe Valar: All Sauron wants to do is bring order to the world. Is that such a bad thing? :}
karakedi25: There's an age-old argument :-)
karakedi25: and a historically recent one too!
karakedi25: All HItler wanted to do was cleanse the world of human scum and bring order to it...
ArPharazonV: If Sauron wants to bring order to the world, his motivations are different than that from his master's. Morgoth's motivation was to steer the world into chaos under his command until there was nothing left of the influences of his peers. Ultimately futile, but still.
ArPharazonV: And I wondered if anyone was going to invoke Godwin's Law after Eonwe's statement ;-)
karakedi25: Remember that many wanted to use the ring to do good at first, but would be corrupted by it ... because it *is* Sauron's ring.
karakedi25: Godwin's Law?
ArPharazonV: Aye, it was Sauron's ring, and part of Sauron. It's like they were wearing Sauron.
ArPharazonV: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law
ArPharazonV: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."
karakedi25: Even someone with Galadriel's strength of will and mind didn't think she could resist Sauron indefinitely.
Eonwe Valar: Given the time at which LotR was written, it's probably more expected that such an analogy would be made with Sauron.
karakedi25: HItler was so toweringly bad that he lends himself to such analogies, and he's very well know. Pol Pot would be less meaningful.
Eonwe Valar: Back to Sauron though :}
ArPharazonV: I think it comes back to 2 contradicting options when it comes to someone's "right" and the justified thing to do.
karakedi25: *known
ArPharazonV: On the one hand it's Sauron's property, and he has a good claim to it, as nobody has yet been able to revoke (not even Galadriel thought she could do so, aye).
Eonwe Valar: So, it's ok to deny him access to his Ring. It's also ok to tell Fëanor that they're cracking open his Silmarilli against his will to revive the Two Trees.
ArPharazonV: On the other hand it's the right of the Free Peoples, essentially Sauron's enemies, to protect themselves even at the cost of the rights of Sauron's claim.
ArPharazonV: All's fair in love and war, I suppose.
ArPharazonV: when lives and freedoms are at stake, personal property tends to be less of a priority ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Then why was the taking of the Teleri's Swan-ships wrong?
ArPharazonV: Because the Noldor were the aggressors. They did not take the ships to defend themselves but to go on the offensive.
Eonwe Valar: Melkor was the agressor actually. He'd stolen the Silmarilli (I won't ask why that was wrong :}) and killed the Noldor's king.
ArPharazonV: They did not go after Morgoth for their own survival. They went after him, disrespecting someone else's property, for the sole reason that someone else took *their* property.
ArPharazonV: And that comes across as hypocrisy (spelling?)
Eonwe Valar: All Sauron was doing was taking other people's "property."
ArPharazonV: I didn't say taking someone else's property is right. I'm just saying that reacting to it by taking someone else's property isn't right either.
ArPharazonV: And of course there's different kinds of property. Mortal lives tend to be high on the list.
Eonwe Valar: So, when someone takes/destroys something, say the Two Trees, then you still have to respect someone else's rights to their property, say the Silmarilli?
ArPharazonV: Ehhh. Grey area, to be honest.
Eonwe Valar: Otherwise you risk being like Sauron, or Morgoth, or *shudder* Fëanor? :}
ArPharazonV: At first sight, I'd say yes. You'd have to respect it. As the Valar did.
ArPharazonV: Then of course there's the question of whether the Silmarilli, being made of the light of the taken/destroyed property, wholly fell under the claim of Feanor. But we already discussed that.
VardaValar1: And did we come to a decision on that?
ArPharazonV: It wasn't very friendly of Feanor to deny the Valar his Silmarilli, but I'd think it was indeed his right to do so. I wouldn't claim moral superiority over the Valar in this matter.
Eonwe Valar: Well if we're going to grant retro-active rights, we have to take it all back to Eru, who created everything in the first place.
VardaValar1: The Valar agreed that it was Feanor's right to say no and respected it.
ArPharazonV: Aye.
VardaValar1: They were being generous, in my opinion.
VardaValar1: But with absolute power, comes the need to be cautious in exercising it.
ArPharazonV: Well, as I said, it's a morally/justifiably grey area. The Valar simply chose the lighter part of the spectrum.
VardaValar1: Aye
karakedi25: And that's the big difference between the Valar and Sauron.
VardaValar1: Aye :-)
karakedi25: (what Varda said)
ArPharazonV: As for Eonwe's point, I don't think anyone protest against any claim that Eru himself could make concerning Arda as his property.
ArPharazonV: *could protest
Eonwe Valar: So, property rights are respected, unless it's something that can be for/against someone, then we step in and say its not their right to keep it.
Eonwe Valar: *can be used.
VardaValar1: Generally more than one someone, in practice in Middle-earth.
ArPharazonV: It was still Sauron's right to keep his Ring. It was also the right of his enemies to defend their own lives/lands/freedom/property. It's simply a clashing of rights. And in a warzone... well, as I said, all's fair.
Eonwe Valar: The Ring can be used against the Free Peoples, so we take it. The Silmarilli can be used to heal the Two Trees, so we take them. The Swan Ships can be used in the war against Morgoth. Why not take them?
VardaValar1: Actually in a war zone, all should not be fair.
VardaValar1: That came out awkwardly. :-)
ArPharazonV: Because the war against Morgoth wasn't necessarily the right thing to do.
ArPharazonV: And it wasn't undertaken (with all the consequences, including the ships) for the right reasons, anyway.
Eonwe Valar: So Morgoth should've been left alone in Middle-Earth to harass the Sindar and coming Men as he saw fit?
karakedi25: It was the right thing to do from one point of view.
VardaValar1: There should be some chivalry at all times, but there is a point when one group simply kills the offender in defense of everyone else.
VardaValar1: Morgoth would have destroyed everything including himself. HoME. Letters.
ArPharazonV: Did the Noldor steal the ships and kill their own kind to protect the Sindar and Men? Or did they take them for revenge and stolen Silmarilli?
ArPharazonV: Motivation is important here. If the Valar protested against them, and the Teleri stood in their way, it should've been a clue that they might be doing something wrong.
VardaValar1: The Noldor killed and stole the ships for their own benefit, the revenge and taking back of the Silmarils.
ArPharazonV: Yes. And for those reasons, it wasn't the right thing to do. IMO.
VardaValar1: Of all people, Feanor should have understood what the ships meant to the Teleri.
Eonwe Valar: What would've been the difference if Tulkas' council had prevailed and the Valar had taken the Silmarilli from Fëanor to heal the Two Trees?
VardaValar1: I need to look that up again. Did Tulkas say take it, or just that Feanor should have the understanding that he should turn over enough to repair the Trees?
Eonwe Valar: Tulkas didn't come out and say it, no.
Eonwe Valar: His attitude was "How can you deny her?"
ArPharazonV: He did not imply, then, that it was not Feanor's right to keep them? Only that he was making the morally wrong choice?
Eonwe Valar: His implication was the same that has been made here: that the greater claim lay on Yavanna for the Light that lay within them.
karakedi25: Even if Feanor had taken the ships to protect the Sindar, it would have been wrong.
VardaValar1: ok, Manwe asked "Wilt thou grant what she would ask?"
karakedi25: The end doesn't justify the means.
Eonwe Valar: Tulkas:" Speak, O Noldo, yea or nay! But who shall deny Yavanna? And did not the light of the Silmarills come from her work in the beginning?"
VardaValar1: Long silence, Tulkas gets impatient and cried: "Speak, O Noldo, yea or nay! But who shall deny Yavanna? And did not the light of the Silmarils come from her work in the beginning?"
VardaValar1: Thanks Eonwe the Speedier. :-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
ArPharazonV: Indis: This is true. But it would lay more weight on his claim that it is the right thing to do to go there, even if others oppose him. It now becomes a closer parallel to the story of Valar vs Feanor. And in both cases, it was still the right of both the Teleri in the first case and Feanor in the second case to deny others their use.
VardaValar1: Feanor hadn't said one way or another, Tulkas got impatient as to him it was morally clear. But, Aule warned that it was not really that clear.
ArPharazonV: Of course, the slaying of Teleri to take the ships is inexcusable. That is not only the taking of ships, but the taking of lives as well.
VardaValar1: Aye, the Teleri had the same right as Feanor to deny use.
ArPharazonV: Especially since the Teleri had no connection to Morgoth nor blame to his stealing of the Silmarilli in the first place.
VardaValar1: Sauron's Ring was different, because using the Ring would further Sauron's purpose to bring it to him in some cases, or would corrupt the user.
VardaValar1: Aye, the Teleri were innocent. And do you suppose that they had other ships less precious that might have been used? That one I don't know.
VardaValar1: It's implied that they had no lesser ships to offer in their place, or they might have done so.
Eonwe Valar: That was the impression I got, aye, that they had no lesser ships.
VardaValar1: Feanor saw no other choice for ships. As such great craftsmen, they might have built their own, but it would have taken a long time.
Eonwe Valar: By then, the hearts of the Noldor would've cooled and he would've lost some of his forces to calming minds.
Eonwe Valar: *calmer
Eonwe Valar: That's what he was most afraid of.
VardaValar1: That's true.
VardaValar1: He lost a good number after they discovered what was really taking place, then he left a large number that wound up walking the ice.
karakedi25: a rather ignoble motivation--if they have a chance to think, they won't follow me
VardaValar1: He would probably have done just as well making new ships.
Eonwe Valar: Probably, aye, but that's Fëanor for you :}
ArPharazonV: The Silmarilli weren't going anywhere, anyway.
ArPharazonV: It took 600 years to reclaim them after all. A few years to build ships wouldn't have made a difference.
VardaValar1: Aye, and it was true. Feanor needed to keep people going with emotion, not with intelligent discussion.
Eonwe Valar: I think Fëanor hoped to catch Morgoth before Morgoth reached Angband. Unlikely he could've, give the lead Morgoth had.
VardaValar1: They had the ships of the Teleri right there to study.
VardaValar1: Maybe he did hope something like that, catch Morgoth before he was completely settled in.
karakedi25: And might have enlisted the help of the Teleri
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
karakedi25: in any case, though there are certainly analogies here, it's not quite the same as Sauron, whose use of the ring would certainly be destructive to what others value
VardaValar1: As in being ferried by the Teleri? Maybe if he had not been so harsh, they would have considered it. But they said no, and he would not accept that.
ArPharazonV: Perhaps he underestimated how long it would take for Morgoth to settle in. He might not have expected the presence of balrogs and orcs already keeping his house tidy for him.
karakedi25: including lives
Eonwe Valar: He also didn't want to risk the Valar stopping his pursuit.
ArPharazonV: At the least the Teleri could have helped him build ships, Varda.
VardaValar1: I'm looking back over it now.
VardaValar1: The Teleri wanted to dissuade Feanor from what he was doing.
VardaValar1: Feanor thought of making ships, but
VardaValar1: "it would take long time and toil to build so great a fleet, even were there any among the Noldor skilled in that craft. He resolved
Eonwe Valar: But herein we see the difference between the Silmarilli and the Ships of the Teleri, and Sauron's Ring. The former were not by design weapons of war meant to subjugate. The latter was. Destroying the latter was self-defense. To take the former without permission from the owner/creator was looting.
VardaValar1: "now therefore to persuade the Teleri, ever friends to the Noldor, to join with them; and in his rebellion he thought
ArPharazonV: Even if it was for a righteous cause as rekindling the Trees? ;-)
VardaValar1: "that thus the bliss of Valinor might be further diminished and his power for war on Morgoth be increased."
Eonwe Valar: Even if it were, aye Phar. If Fëanor did not allow it, and the Valar did it anyway, they would've been everything Melkor said they were.
ArPharazonV: That is true.
VardaValar1: ..."They (the Teleri) were grieved indeed at the thought of the going of their kinsfolk and long friends, but would rather dissuade them than aid them..."
VardaValar1: "and no ship would they lend, nor help in the building, against the will of the Valar. As for themselves, they desired no other home but the strands of Eldamar, and no other lord than Olwe..."
VardaValar1: I'll stop quoting now. :-)
Eonwe Valar: So they wouldn't have helped Fëanor at all. Seems Fëanor tried to get them to build other ships after all.
ArPharazonV: But the Teleri wouldn't help him against the will of the Valar. So it all comes back to the Valar saying "It's not right to go there!"
ArPharazonV: I wonder if they took the protection of the Sindar and Men into account there.
VardaValar1: Feanor didn't seem to.
karakedi25: I doubt it even came into the discussion.
ArPharazonV: But surely the Valar would have to think about that, knowing the way Morgoth fled?
Eonwe Valar: Note the message the herald delivered after Fëanor's speech too. "Freely ye came, and freely shall ye depart." The Valar might've tried to stop the Noldor from leaving, but to that point they had done nothing to be detained or exiled for (save Fëanor).
VardaValar1: The Teleri also didn't want pressed into Feanor's army.
Eonwe Valar: The awakening of Men had not yet happened, and they didn't want to risk disturbing their resting places before then. The Valar would've waited until they had received word of Mankind walking about.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, there is that as well, Varda. Fëanor likely would've held himself high-king of anyone who followed him, whether legitimately, as with the Noldor, or not, as with the Teleri.
VardaValar1: That it says they wanted no other lord than Olwe suggests that they realized Feanor would've been their new lord.
karakedi25: Or at least that he wanted to be.
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
karakedi25: In a minor way, perhaps Feanor presented the same kind of risk to the Teleri that Sauron presented to the people of western Middle Earth in a much larger way.
Eonwe Valar: Perhaps, aye.
Eonwe Valar: His kingship might've devolved into a mini-Angband, eventually determining to outdo Morgoth by forcing as many kingdoms to his side as possible.
Eonwe Valar: In some ways, the Saruman of the First Age, minus the ties to the Dark Lord, or at least, a Denethor.
Eonwe Valar: I think the discussion has died down, so we might as well call the discussion :}
top

Forum Role-play Discussion and Posting:
Eonwe Valar: I understand some of us wish to discuss the RP. Are all we RP-ers still awake?
karakedi25: I am
ArPharazonV: I admit I haven't really thought about the RP since we last discussed it. Too many things going on in life.
ArPharazonV: I could tell you I'll try to make a post in the next week, if you want ;-)
VardaValar1: Present.
VardaValar1: You and Menel need to get together, maybe on AIM?
ArPharazonV: perhaps
AriehnV: well i have a bit of a Echo of our Discussion .. a lyrics of a great song by Blind Guardian .. if u allow?
ArPharazonV: but from what I remember we couldnt'really get to an agreement last time
VardaValar1: An url would help too, YouTube isn't it?
Eonwe Valar: Agreement on?
ArPharazonV: On the basic outline of the continuation of our confrontation. Wow, that was a more complicated sentence than I thought.
Eonwe Valar: Hehe.
AriehnV: http://www.lyricsdepot.com/blind-guardian/nightfall.html
Eonwe Valar: I know those lyrics roughly by heart :}
ArPharazonV: We'd have to find a compromise neither of us is willing to make, considering Menelvagor seems very focused on *not* being able to pick up a message from Calaron unless he's already dead. Which he'll never allow anyway.
Eonwe Valar: Weren't we going for a face-to-face confrontation anyway?
ArPharazonV: were we?
ArPharazonV: I chase Estarion, I face the party? Could be.
ArPharazonV: I remember a theory like that.
Eonwe Valar: I had the impression that Calaron/Calion were going to come face-to-face in Mirkwood, from previous discussions.
ArPharazonV: Yeah. But I had some trouble making it work, so an alternative would be passing along a message for Calion to meet him in Angmar instead.
ArPharazonV: the Calaron/Calion thing might still work if I manage to isolate Calion for a good reason, or if I let Calaron face the entire party
Eonwe Valar: The fact he's an elf would tend to keep arrows from flying at him almost immediately, leader of evil armies or not.
ArPharazonV: True.
ArPharazonV: If Calion will hesitate to shoot a wolf he can save, he'll certainly do the same for his brother, anyway.
ArPharazonV: And the other elves (except Estarion) will know a thing or two about kinslaying and how it's frowned upon.
Eonwe Valar: Auros doesn't have a bow, so he can't be blamed for any loose arrows flying at Calaron's head :}
VardaValar1: Fainan is not a kinslayer, but woe to the orcs and spiders near him. : )
VardaValar1: The only real danger to him is our dwarf buddy. : )
VardaValar1: Might part his hair with a thrown axe.
Menelvagor Valar has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya!
Eonwe Valar: Hehe, and Estarion stumbles in at an opportune time :}
VardaValar1: Heya Menel, just moved to the rp discussion.
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
Eonwe Valar: Heya Menel :}
karakedi25: Aiya Menel! Just in time!
Menelvagor Valar: just got home, so tada :-D
Menelvagor Valar: right... RP discussion :-)
ArPharazonV: I've still had no response from Fladrif, by the way.
Eonwe Valar: We're discussing our direction in the confrontation we're staging.
VardaValar1: He may be asleep.
VardaValar1: Welcome home. :-)
Menelvagor Valar: well, as I said before, my direction depends on Calaron's actions ^^
VardaValar1: Wasn't Estarion's direction total avoidance?
ArPharazonV: Well we still need a general direction of story. The possibility we're leaning towards now is Calaron chasing you to the open circle and confronting the party there.
ArPharazonV: If he doesn't manage to trap/defeat you before we get there.
ArPharazonV: Which you'll probably never allow.
Menelvagor Valar: that's possible, but you'd need to get me there somehow.
ArPharazonV: You could pick up on sounds of battle somehow, if the rest of the party is confronting orcs.
Menelvagor Valar: my last post has me running away from the party, back to hence we came, to split up the ambush, and thereby make the chances they will survive higher.
VardaValar1: Auros was not quiet about going to the circle and is being chased.
Menelvagor Valar: well, the way I see it, you're at least a quarter to half a mile down the road from where Estarion slipped off.
Menelvagor Valar: and in dense canopy, with rushing about himself, I'd say that hearing stuff that far off is a far shot.
ArPharazonV: It'll be quiet around you very soon, don't worry >.>
Menelvagor Valar: hehe :-)
ArPharazonV: I've got plans... yessss... I've got plans
Menelvagor Valar: don't expect me to sit quietly though :-D
ArPharazonV: Don't forget that Calaron's being inhabited by an actual sorcerer at this point.
Menelvagor Valar: Oh yes, but that doesn't negate Estarion's plans.
ArPharazonV: Oh, don't worry. It'll just be a bit of exertion of sorcery, making a silence fall through that part of the forest or something like that, to be able to pick up exactly where you are or to unnerve you.
ArPharazonV: At the least it should make it more likely that you can pick up sounds of the battle.
Menelvagor Valar: his plan is basically to a) lure part of the enemy force away from the party, and b) thin them.
Menelvagor Valar: Does that sorcery extend to the sounds of battle I'd be making?
ArPharazonV: Could be. Not sure yet. But if you're running from me, you won't be battling much except some branches in your way.
Menelvagor Valar: oh, the running away from you is a diversion.
Menelvagor Valar: remember, you're not my real battle.
ArPharazonV: *nod* I'll still be putting pressure on you though
Eonwe Valar: Calaron wouldn't know that, hehe.
Menelvagor Valar: uh-huh.
Eonwe Valar: Well, maybe not. Calaron might be toying with Estarion too, from an in-character perspective :}
ArPharazonV: hehe
Menelvagor Valar: which is still putting pressure on me :-)
Menelvagor Valar: btw, the ambush came from the north side of the path, right?
ArPharazonV: Yeah.
Eonwe Valar: Even keeping one lone elf away from the rest of his party can affect the outcome of the battle.
Menelvagor Valar: Okies, devising my post as we speak :-)
Menelvagor Valar: true.
ArPharazonV: Yours was the last one though, in our confrontation. I believe I'm still next.
Eonwe Valar: Though Auros is worth 10 Avari, and 5 Silvans *cough* hehe :}
VardaValar1: hehe
Menelvagor Valar: True Phar, though you did give me free reign to post before you went away :-)
Menelvagor Valar: I just haven't followed up on it yet :-)
ArPharazonV: That I did. I was assuming, though, that you'd have made it before I came back.
Menelvagor Valar: Also true.
ArPharazonV: As was the whole point of me giving you free reign.
Menelvagor Valar: I don't see why I couldn't take up on the offer before you post yet though :-)
ArPharazonV: I just hit the "reply" button... you'll need to be fast ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: I'll wait then :-)
Eonwe Valar: hehehe
Menelvagor Valar: My last post was devised as a "need a response before moving on" anyways :-D
Eonwe Valar: Eh, rereading my last post.. Auros was a bit melodramatic, hehe.
VardaValar1: Curse of Feanor, Blind Guardian music and lyrics if you want: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Lg2AAXaWCU&feature=related
Eonwe Valar: I have the CD :}
karakedi25: I don't see anything posted yet in the RP.
Menelvagor Valar: Noldor are kinda melodramatic... no offense ::D
ArPharazonV: I'm writing it now, Indis.
karakedi25: ok
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: I mostly mean the wording. I'm sure there was a better way to word some of his dialogue, but oh well.
VardaValar1: Fortunately we have a Modify button if you find a better wording later. : )
Eonwe Valar: :}
Menelvagor Valar: courtesy of proboards ^^
Eonwe Valar: An option I use sparingly, or we'd never have a consistent story, hehe :}
VardaValar1: Same. : )
Eonwe Valar: For example, now would bew a bad time for me to go back and rewrite my dialogue from Part 1 :}
Eonwe Valar: bew = be
ArPharazonV: True. I'm still considering adding some changes into the take-over post at the western outpost, but it's not like anyone would notice anyway.
Eonwe Valar: I laughed at this part right here for Fainan:
Eonwe Valar: oh sweet Orome the Hunter, turned
Menelvagor Valar: not unless you make us aware of it :-)
Eonwe Valar: Part of: Yet he slowed further and stopped, speaking very softly and, oh sweet Orome the Hunter, turned.
ArPharazonV: Send a message of his death to Rivendell? Arghhh.
AriehnV: i wonder whether the sorcerer would not profit from such a plan ... He must be aware that his true identity will be discovered sooner or later
Eonwe Valar: In other words, I was amused by that part :} I could just see an Elf exclaiming, "Oh, sweet Oromë the Hunter! He's turning around!" :}
AriehnV: While he wants them to follow him so he can capture the company and squeeze out of them every thing that might be of interest to him , while it might be only the lifeblood of some minor characters ..
karakedi25: I'm hoping that Meren will be in a position to make the sorcerer uncomfortable once she recognizes that something's wrong with Calaron.
Menelvagor Valar: hehe :-)
AriehnV: but he wouldnt want that to happen before the actual point when he is sure to get the company
arwenv1 has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Take care Arwen :}
VardaValar1: Aye, Indis. We wouldn't kill an elf, but there is plenty to do less than that. : )
VardaValar1: With Meren's knowledge of meds, she could be hazardous in that way too, like McCoy on Star Trek. ;-)
Eonwe Valar: He's a doctor, not an elf! :}
karakedi25: Yes, she'll probably take advantage of her normally non-martial skills.
AriehnV: Meh i have to laugh what McCoy might say to that notion ... He 'd not be pleased no... would envolve pointy ears , grin
AriehnV: involve even
Menelvagor Valar: well, think of it as this:
Menelvagor Valar: a doctor, whether an herbalist or a surgeon, is still worth at least 10 soldiers.
Menelvagor Valar: one doctor can manage to patch up more soldiers than any army can draft.
Menelvagor Valar: Which... what's her name again... points out very well "The hands of a king are the hands of a healer".
VardaValar1: Ioreth
karakedi25: Ioreth
AriehnV: Ioreth right
Menelvagor Valar: Yeah, I thought so, thanks :-)
Menelvagor Valar: managed to scrounge the name from my brain just after I typed it, but wasn't sure :-D
Eonwe Valar: Except those soldiers still need time to heal.
Menelvagor Valar: true.
Menelvagor Valar: but without healers, how many would take days or months to recover, where just a fleshwound can be tended with some bandages, and sent back into battle, even though it might not be wise?
Eonwe Valar: So as long as they're not supposed to report for duty the next day,.. :}
karakedi25: well, conversely, Meren is going to do an equivalent amount of damage :-)
Menelvagor Valar: In war, that is often the case anyways.
Eonwe Valar: I mean more grevious cases. A scratch is a scratch.
Eonwe Valar: *greivous
Menelvagor Valar: true.
Eonwe Valar: But aye, healers help the longevity of a standing army.
Menelvagor Valar: but in a prolonged war, a tended veteran, even if he's out of commission for a time, is worth 10 new draftees at the least.
Menelvagor Valar: Oh, btw, a bit off-topic, did any of you watch the match between the US and Ghana on saturday?
Eonwe Valar: OK, I'm going from:"Let messages of my death be the fullfillment of my mission! I will run no further!"
Eonwe Valar: To: "I will run no further! That I do not return will tell all of my mission that needs told!"
Eonwe Valar: I didn't, no.

(short digression)
Menelvagor Valar: did you follow the US progress in the world cup?
Eonwe Valar: No.
Eonwe Valar: I'm not interested in soccer/football.
Menelvagor Valar: oh well, it's not like it's baseball or football :-P
Eonwe Valar: I'm not much of a sports spectator. I would prefer playing sports to watching them.
VardaValar1: Not really interested either.
Eonwe Valar: I only go to games when other people drag me along, hehe.
Menelvagor Valar: oh well :-)
Menelvagor Valar: it's just that soccer is the biggest sport over here, so it's hard not to get caught up in it lolz.
Menelvagor Valar: and of course, I was rooting for the US first and foremost.
Menelvagor Valar: kind of a bummer they didn't make it to the quarter finals.
karakedi25: Are we finished with the RP?
Menelvagor Valar: For next tournament, the US soccer league should hire Mr. Hiddink as their coach :-D
VardaValar1: Menel seems to be, heh.
Menelvagor Valar: No, just something to pass the time with while Pharzy finishes his post... sorry :-D

ArPharazonV: Posted.
Eonwe Valar: If we have nothing more to say on it, I guess we are. Unless we're waitng in anticipation for Phar's post :}
ArPharazonV: Tell me if I made him a bit too overpowered.
Eonwe Valar: The wait is over :}
Menelvagor Valar: if you think he's overpowered, he's overpowered :-D
ArPharazonV: Trust me. I could make him worse.
ArPharazonV: I'm just paranoid to railroading this thing further than I've already done.
Eonwe Valar: Change his name to Gary, have Galadriel fall in love with him? :}
ArPharazonV: Gary Stu, yes!
Menelvagor Valar: Deftly moving across the trees, masking his own sounds completely with his abilities
Menelvagor Valar: I think that might be a bit too op.
ArPharazonV: well, that's what the aura is for
ArPharazonV: complete silence
ArPharazonV: but yeah, that could be something I could change
Menelvagor Valar: then I suppose you extend that silence to exactly behind Estarion's footsteps?
karakedi25: I think this will be an interesting duel of wits between Estarion and "Calaron."
ArPharazonV: Well I probably have less an effect on your footsteps than on mine. They're mine, after all.
Menelvagor Valar: well, it's either that you completely mask all sounds made, including mine, or you don't get more than a general direction of where I am, not a precise location.
ArPharazonV: Your footsteps will be quieter too, but still.
ArPharazonV: Hmm. Perhaps.
ArPharazonV: And it's not just your footsteps that I'm tracking of course.
Menelvagor Valar: well, thing is, if you're rushing after me, however much your sounds will be quieted by this unnatural (but plausible) silence, you should not forget that Estarion is a scout too, and attuned to even those rustles.
ArPharazonV: The whole point is that I can feel your presence, though I cannot penetrate your mind, I can still feel where you are.
Menelvagor Valar: especially of those he's got a major interest in, which in this case means staying alive.
ArPharazonV: Which is something I was worried about, concerning overpoweredness.
Menelvagor Valar: for an approximate location, I would agree.
ArPharazonV: I could just shoot an arrow at you and it hitting a tree next to you without it actually having had hit you were there no branch in the way?
ArPharazonV: if that makes sense
Menelvagor Valar: and I'd say you'd be able to extrapolate from my direction and the sounds to within a few inches to a foot, but not the perfectly exact location.
ArPharazonV: I like my comparison to the dwarf in the open field though... ;-)
Menelvagor Valar: At any rate...
karakedi25: How do you two intend for this to end?
ArPharazonV: I'm editing some stuff now.
Eonwe Valar: While the Dwarf thing is amusing, I might've gone with something that gave more a feeling of a hunter.
Menelvagor Valar: if you change "Deftly moving across the trees, masking his own sounds completely with his abilities" into "Deftly moving across the trees, masking his own sounds almost completely with his abilities" I'd be happy :-)
ArPharazonV: I made it into "attempting to mask his own sounds with his abilities" but your version could work!
Eonwe Valar: or "making an effort to" perhaps?
ArPharazonV: "attempting to mask his own sounds as completely as possible with his abilities"
Eonwe Valar: Just throwing that out there.
ArPharazonV: but that becomes a bit... long
Eonwe Valar: Probably about time some action takes place at the clearing.. :}
ArPharazonV: hmm, what did you mean with the "hunter" feeling?
VardaValar1: But it is not overly long.
ArPharazonV: make it into a bear? :-)
Eonwe Valar: Well, you're hunting down Estarion. It seems a reference to an animal would be more appropos, unless your Sorcerer was an adept Dwarf-hunter :}
ArPharazonV: "attempting to mask his own sounds almost completely with his abilities" is as it stands, would that work?
ArPharazonV: is there any mention of felines? lions, tigers, panthers? in Tolkien?
Menelvagor Valar: Ok, I have posted a temporary reply.
Eonwe Valar: Otherwise either it comes off mostly as as shot at Dwarves, or it doesn't seem to apply well, at least to me.
ArPharazonV: while still keeping the "open field" comparison it does throw in a bit of difficulty to seeing where he actually is
Eonwe Valar: *as a
ArPharazonV: Well I was considering an Orc first. But seeing as he's working with the Orcs, that seemed odd.
Menelvagor Valar: Pharzy, read my temporary reply :-)
ArPharazonV: can't yet, still editing
ArPharazonV: what kind of animal would you advise?
Menelvagor Valar: It's, I think, much in line with what you wrote, from Estarion's perspective :-)
AriehnV: well guys :-) you ll discuss that out between u, but i ll retreat for now:-) its getting a bit early :-) and i was working today :-) , i shall be looking forward to any responses
karakedi25: a bear would work
VardaValar1: Concerning the clearing group, something is approaching.
ArPharazonV: namarie Arien :-)
Menelvagor Valar: Well, you could say: "as easily as tracking an Orc stalking through the underbrush", since it's widely known Orcs are not ones for subtlety.
VardaValar1: Namarie, Arien!
karakedi25: namarie Arien
Eonwe Valar: It seems you're going for the "there's no way I can miss!" kind of feel from the words, so I would pick something big, like a bear, or the Kine of Araw.
Menelvagor Valar: Namarie Arien!
Eonwe Valar: I think the Kine of Araw were supposed to be rather large for cattle.
ArPharazonV: "The accuracy of his tracking was less than he'd hoped, and the arrow missed the Elf by a foot, striking a treetrunk next to him. Estarion would be startled now..."
ArPharazonV: I've made it a bear through an open field now
Menelvagor Valar: seems to work.
Menelvagor Valar: I still suggest you read my post after you're done with your first edit though :-)
ArPharazonV: ok, it's modified
Menelvagor Valar: Of course, I am not quite revealing what I will do afterwards, but that will come soon :-)
VardaValar1: Araw is Orome
ArPharazonV: I've changed the branch behind you into a trunk next to you, to make it clearer that I can't see you as easily.
ArPharazonV: So you might want to change that ;-)
AriehnV: Namarie all :-)
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
Menelvagor Valar: well... considering I was moving in a straight line, I think, with Calaron's expertise, it wouldn't be hard to figure out where I'd be.
Eonwe Valar: Take care Arien :}
ArPharazonV: Want me to change it back?
AriehnV has left the room.
Menelvagor Valar: so that part wasn't at all too far-fetched to me.
Menelvagor Valar: as long as you can clear it up it's a mix of the "sensing" thing and Calaron's tracking abilities, that would be awesome, aye.
ArPharazonV: Allright.
Menelvagor Valar: At least, I think that would be within the limits of being more powerful, but not too overpowered...
Menelvagor Valar: for all I know, not even Gandalf had such powers.
Menelvagor Valar: being to know where someone was based only on sensing that is.
ArPharazonV: Deftly moving across the trees, masking his own sounds almost completely with his abilities, Calaron tracked the Avar through the canopy, sensing him almost as clear as he could see a bear in an open field, and released the arrow, aimed at the Elf's legs.
ArPharazonV: The arrow would have struck true were it not for a branch blocking the way, not a foot behind the Elf.
Menelvagor Valar: Aye, sounds good to me :-)
ArPharazonV: allright!
Eonwe Valar: For those interested, I'm writing the opening scene for the clearing battle.
VardaValar1: That would be all of us. : )
ArPharazonV: Hmm. At first I thought it was none of my concern since I wasn't intending to handle the movements of the Orcs without their leaders.. then I realized my main character is still hanging out with your party ;-)
ArPharazonV: It's fun putting my secondary in the spotlight for a time but I musn't forget Calion.
VardaValar1: Little detail, like your main? : )
ArPharazonV: Playing a character called Calaron in WoW so much does tend to make me shift focus in names.
Menelvagor Valar: Posted :-)
VardaValar1: How is our animal-handler at understanding spider activity, and would their intelligence be a problem or hindrance?
Menelvagor Valar: I've decided not to take into account Calaron's enhanced mental sensory perception.
Menelvagor Valar: or not much anyways :-)
ArPharazonV: I noticed.
Menelvagor Valar: Estarion wouldn't know about it just yet anyways.
ArPharazonV: I might drop onto the path below you and wondering where you've gone, or I might sniff you out.
ArPharazonV: I'll know you're near, anyway.
Menelvagor Valar: yep.
Menelvagor Valar: that's the part I did use :-)
ArPharazonV: how high above the ground are these lowest branches?
Menelvagor Valar: 5-6 feet or so I think?
Menelvagor Valar: enough to let a rider through on horseback with room to spare anyways.
Menelvagor Valar: so perhaps more.
ArPharazonV: if it's like 6 feet above the ground, I should be able to tell whether you're on them or on the ground, anyway
Menelvagor Valar: Oh yes.
Menelvagor Valar: but I don't know that :-)
ArPharazonV: Very true.
ArPharazonV: I'll have to ponder this one.
Menelvagor Valar: errr... that would make it 9-12 feet'ish :-D
Menelvagor Valar: at least.
ArPharazonV: Definitely enough for me to tell.
Menelvagor Valar: but not more than 18 by my reckoning.
Menelvagor Valar: well, here's something of foreknowledge :-)
Menelvagor Valar: though I reckon you've already guessed it.
Menelvagor Valar: Estarion has set up a small ambush of his own.
ArPharazonV: You've given me an advantage. I could use it to the fullest if I want to capture you, not if we want you to reach the clearing.
ArPharazonV: Yes. I figured so.
ArPharazonV: ambushing me as I try to follow you to the ground, or so you think
Menelvagor Valar: Except that you still forget that I can still hear you.
Menelvagor Valar: and I'll know that if you go completely silent, and not follow me pell-mell, my plan will have failed.
ArPharazonV: trrrrue
Menelvagor Valar: the entire point about making it seem I dropped out of the canopy is that you won't be able to track me on the ground by hearing alone.
ArPharazonV: So if I find you and you know your plan has failed, you'll know I've got an extra sense.
Menelvagor Valar: since an Elf, especially one who is skilled in woodscraft or sneaking, will not make any sound on normal packed or soft ground, and indeed, very little, if any at all on the forest floor.
Menelvagor Valar: and that will make me abandon my plan and go straight towards where the party was headed.
ArPharazonV: Aye. So I wouldn't know you weren't on the forest floor because I wouldn't be able to hear you on it.
Menelvagor Valar: well, you'd know, but I don't know that yet ^^
Menelvagor Valar: Also, making you aware of something...
Menelvagor Valar: I am sitting next to a tree trunk.
Menelvagor Valar: which means I am not above the path.
Menelvagor Valar: I am on the northside of it.
ArPharazonV: *nod*
Menelvagor Valar: It doesn't give you much leeway, but some at least.
ArPharazonV: I'll figure something out. But not today, if you don't mind.
Menelvagor Valar: not at all :-)
Menelvagor Valar: there's plenty of things you can do :-)
Menelvagor Valar: I know a few myself :-D
Menelvagor Valar: would be interesting to see what you come up with :-)
Menelvagor Valar: I wonder if the others are still here *grin*
Eonwe Valar: Typing story :}
Menelvagor Valar: hehe :-)
Eonwe Valar: But I'm still here :}
Menelvagor Valar: then I guess you have read, more or less, my plans :-)
Menelvagor Valar: My way of thinking is this: It's time for me to get away, one way or another, the easiest is to kill or injure my pursuer.
VardaValar1: I'm here. :-)
Menelvagor Valar: But I've gained valuable time for the party at any rate, even if only a few minutes.
karakedi25: I'm still here too
ArPharazonV: It'll probably be something around realizing you making a noise and then going silent, while knowing more or less where you are exactly hiding, and figuring out your plan from that.
ArPharazonV: And then going silent and trying to sneak up on you.
Menelvagor Valar: but we all know how much of a difference a minute can make, let alone two :-)
ArPharazonV: Which will probably alert *you* enough to make a run for it.
Menelvagor Valar: well, as I see it, your next action depends on how much you want a message sent to the party :-D
ArPharazonV: Remember. I'm trying to capture you, not kill you yet. If I can get information from you, it won't be done when you're dead.
karakedi25: The battle of wits has begun!
Menelvagor Valar: Aye, but of course, you have next to no knowledge on the Avari.
Menelvagor Valar: It has been several thousand years since Morgoth has fallen.
Menelvagor Valar: plenty of time for the Avari to have changed tactics.
ArPharazonV: This is true. Neither Calaron nor the sorcerer would have much knowledge on you. Still, if I can trap you or capture you (I've still got a few orcs waiting down there to help) I might be able to learn from you about Auros' mission.
ArPharazonV: As far as Calaron knows.
Menelvagor Valar: cyanide has been a rather valuable tool if you get my drift ^^
Menelvagor Valar: of which you know also nothing of how much he has revealed, which is certainly not much :-)
Menelvagor Valar: all I know, but of course, you don't know that, is that his mission is to gather intel.
Menelvagor Valar: what sort of intel, or what for, I have no clue :-D
ArPharazonV: I would not know that, indeed.
ArPharazonV: I might *suspect it* since I have Calaron's memories from the court, and the secrecy surrounding the mission, but it's worth a try anyway.
Menelvagor Valar: for the sorcerer, definitely.
Menelvagor Valar: There's only one major issue with that really.
Menelvagor Valar: But that's the one thing Sauron or his minions have never understood.
Menelvagor Valar: Compassion and loyalty to a cause.
ArPharazonV: Hmm. It is a good point.
ArPharazonV: I assume that while the sorcerer has taken Calaron's body and has access to his thoughts and memories, his emotions might be an issue.
Menelvagor Valar: it would conflict heavily with the sorcerer's understanding.
ArPharazonV: if Calaron has loyalty and compassion, does the sorcerer feel it? understand it? brush it off as something that's not to be combined with his own emotions?
Menelvagor Valar: that's the one thing that, in my opinion, Tolkien has made very clear.
ArPharazonV: I'm assuming that said sorcerer has had practice in taking over people, though it's probably the first time he took an elf.
Menelvagor Valar: possibly.
ArPharazonV: Would the personality of his host affect *him*?
Menelvagor Valar: Only in the way that it would confuse him.
Menelvagor Valar: he cannot understand it.
ArPharazonV: Hmm, that's likely.
Menelvagor Valar: but I'd like to have the others' opinion on that too.
Menelvagor Valar: In a way, I think that's the one part of Calaron the sorcerer cannot control, for it is beyond his understanding.
Menelvagor Valar: and it is from that, that Calaron may temporarily regain control to get a message out.
Menelvagor Valar: if anything at all.
Menelvagor Valar: but that's my opinion.
ArPharazonV: Could be. I'm not intending for Calaron to get a message out anyway, unless it's further hesitation at a certain... point in time which I won't tell you about yet.
Menelvagor Valar: your choice :-)
ArPharazonV: Ohh, I've got so much planned still for this, even though most of it will be in one sequence in Angmar.
Menelvagor Valar: sounds cool :-)
ArPharazonV: It'll probably be awful and cliche but I've got so much in my head.
Menelvagor Valar: Rp tends to be like that.
Menelvagor Valar: but the way you get it out along with what others add to it generally make it anything but cliche.
ArPharazonV: True.
Menelvagor Valar: btw...
ArPharazonV: I can't wait until I introduce a new (....or old?) element in the aftermath of the current battle of which you'll probably guess immediately what it's about.
Menelvagor Valar: I deliberatly left you another way to know where I am :-)
Menelvagor Valar: I'll see it when I see it :-)
ArPharazonV: ok, time for bed
Menelvagor Valar: "but instead retreating behind the treetrunk close to him with all the stealth and silence he could muster."
ArPharazonV: saving and sending transcript
Menelvagor Valar: it doesn't say I am completely silent :-)
ArPharazonV: hehe
ArPharazonV: we'll see
Menelvagor Valar: night night phar :-)
Menelvagor Valar: I'm going to jump the gun as well :-)
Menelvagor Valar: want to be well rested so I can shout my throat coarse tomorrow if need be ^^
ArPharazonV (7:18:03 PM): <>make it into a bear? :)
Eonwe Valar (7:18:19 PM): <>Well, you're hunting down Estarion. It seems a reference to an animal would be more appropos, unless your Sorcerer was an adept Dwarf-hunter :}
ArPharazonV (7:18:21 PM): <>"attempting to mask his own sounds almost completely with his abilities" is as it stands, would that work?
ArPharazonV (7:19:01 PM): <>is there any mention of felines? lions, tigers, panthers? in Tolkien?
Menelvagor Valar (7:19:23 PM): <>Ok, I have posted a temporary reply.
Eonwe Valar (7:19:36 PM): <>Otherwise either it comes off mostly as as shot at Dwarves, or it doesn't seem to apply well, at least to me.
ArPharazonV (7:19:36 PM): <>while still keeping the "open field" comparison it does throw in a bit of difficulty to seeing where he actually is
Eonwe Valar (7:20:00 PM): <>*as a
ArPharazonV (7:20:02 PM): <>Well I was considering an Orc first. But seeing as he's working with the Orcs, that seemed odd.
Menelvagor Valar (7:20:29 PM): <>Pharzy, read my temporary reply :-)
ArPharazonV (7:20:40 PM):
can't yet, still editing
ArPharazonV (7:20:46 PM): <>what kind of animal would you advise?
Menelvagor Valar (7:20:47 PM): <>It's, I think, much in line with what you wrote, from Estarion's perspective :-)
AriehnV (7:21:24 PM): <>well guys :-) you ll discuss that out between u, but i ll retreat for now:) its getting a bit early :) and i was working today :) , i shall be looking forward to any responses
karakedi25 (7:21:28 PM): <>a bear would work
VardaValar1 (7:21:32 PM): <>Concerning the clearing group, something is approaching.
ArPharazonV (7:21:33 PM): <>namarie Arien :)
Menelvagor Valar (7:21:42 PM): <>Well, you could say: "as easily as tracking an Orc stalking through the underbrush", since it's widely known Orcs are not ones for subtlety.
VardaValar1 (7:21:48 PM): <>Namarie, Arien!
karakedi25 (7:21:48 PM): <>namarie Arien
Eonwe Valar (7:21:57 PM): <>It seems you're going for the "there's no way I can miss!" kind of feel from the words, so I would pick something big, like a bear, or the Kine of Araw.
Menelvagor Valar (7:22:04 PM): <>Namarie Arien!
Eonwe Valar (7:22:50 PM): <>I think the Kine of Araw were supposed to be rather large for cattle.
ArPharazonV (7:22:53 PM):
"The accuracy of his tracking was less than he'd hoped, and the arrow missed the Elf by a foot, striking a treetrunk next to him. Estarion would be startled now..."
ArPharazonV (7:23:14 PM): <>I've made it a bear through an open field now
Menelvagor Valar (7:23:26 PM):
seems to work.
Menelvagor Valar (7:23:44 PM): <>I still suggest you read my post after you're done with your first edit though :-)
ArPharazonV (7:24:06 PM): <>ok, it's modified
Menelvagor Valar (7:24:16 PM): <>Of course, I am not quite revealing what I will do afterwards, but that will come soon :-)
VardaValar1 (7:24:30 PM): <>Araw is Orome
ArPharazonV (7:24:34 PM):
I've changed the branch behind you into a trunk next to you, to make it clearer that I can't see you as easily.
ArPharazonV (7:24:41 PM): <>So you might want to change that ;)
AriehnV (7:25:21 PM): <>Namarie all :-)
ArPharazonV (7:25:24 PM): <>Namarie!
Menelvagor Valar (7:25:32 PM): <>well... considering I was moving in a straight line, I think, with Calaron's expertise, it wouldn't be hard to figure out where I'd be.
Eonwe Valar (7:25:34 PM): <>Take care Arien :}
ArPharazonV (7:25:54 PM): <>Want me to change it back?
Menelvagor Valar (7:25:59 PM):
so that part wasn't at all too far-fetched to me.
Menelvagor Valar (7:26:27 PM): <>as long as you can clear it up it's a mix of the "sensing" thing and Calaron's tracking abilities, that would be awesome, aye.
ArPharazonV (7:26:44 PM): <>Allright.
Menelvagor Valar (7:27:21 PM): <>At least, I think that would be within the limits of being more powerful, but not too overpowered...
Menelvagor Valar (7:27:38 PM):
for all I know, not even Gandalf had such powers.
Menelvagor Valar (7:28:03 PM): <>being to know where someone was based only on sensing that is.
ArPharazonV (7:28:52 PM):
Deftly moving across the trees, masking his own sounds almost completely with his abilities, Calaron tracked the Avar through the canopy, sensing him almost as clear as he could see a bear in an open field, and released the arrow, aimed at the Elf's legs.
ArPharazonV (7:29:05 PM): <>The arrow would have struck true were it not for a branch blocking the way, not a foot behind the Elf.
Menelvagor Valar (7:29:20 PM): <>Aye, sounds good to me :-)
ArPharazonV (7:29:31 PM): <>allright!
Eonwe Valar (7:34:07 PM): <>For those interested, I'm writing the opening scene for the clearing battle.
VardaValar1 (7:36:14 PM): <>That would be all of us. : )
ArPharazonV (7:37:10 PM):
Hmm. At first I thought it was none of my concern since I wasn't intending to handle the movements of the Orcs without their leaders.. then I realized my main character is still hanging out with your party ;)
ArPharazonV (7:37:33 PM): <>It's fun putting my secondary in the spotlight for a time but I musn't forget Calion.
VardaValar1 (7:37:50 PM): <>Little detail, like your main? : )
ArPharazonV (7:37:50 PM): <>Playing a character called Calaron in WoW so much does tend to make me shift focus in names.
Menelvagor Valar (7:38:10 PM): <>Posted :-)
VardaValar1 (7:38:36 PM): <>How is our animal-handler at understanding spider activity, and would their intelligence be a problem or hindrance?
Menelvagor Valar (7:39:16 PM):
I've decided not to take into account Calaron's enhanced mental sensory perception.
Menelvagor Valar (7:39:20 PM): <>or not much anyways :-)
ArPharazonV (7:39:23 PM): <>I noticed.
Menelvagor Valar (7:39:40 PM): <>Estarion wouldn't know about it just yet anyways.
ArPharazonV (7:39:49 PM):
I might drop onto the path below you and wondering where you've gone, or I might sniff you out.
ArPharazonV (7:39:56 PM): <>I'll know you're near, anyway.
Menelvagor Valar (7:40:00 PM):
yep.
Menelvagor Valar (7:40:06 PM): <>that's the part I did use :-)
ArPharazonV (7:40:08 PM): <>how high above the ground are these lowest branches?
Menelvagor Valar (7:40:24 PM): <>5-6 feet or so I think?
Menelvagor Valar (7:40:36 PM):
enough to let a rider through on horseback with room to spare anyways.
Menelvagor Valar (7:40:39 PM): <>so perhaps more.
ArPharazonV (7:40:48 PM):
if it's like 6 feet above the ground, I should be able to tell whether you're on them or on the ground, anyway
Menelvagor Valar 7:41 pm
Menelvagor Valar (7:41:02 PM):
Oh yes.
Menelvagor Valar (7:41:07 PM):
but I don't know that :-)
ArPharazonV 7:41 pm
ArPharazonV (7:41:16 PM):
Very true.
ArPharazonV (7:41:20 PM):
I'll have to ponder this one.
Menelvagor Valar 7:41 pm
Menelvagor Valar (7:41:27 PM):
errr...  that would make it 9-12 feet'ish :-D
Menelvagor Valar (7:41:36 PM):
at least.
ArPharazonV 7:41 pm
ArPharazonV (7:41:44 PM):
Definitely enough for me to tell.
Menelvagor Valar 7:41 pm
Menelvagor Valar (7:41:47 PM):
but not more than 18 by my reckoning.
Menelvagor Valar (7:42:04 PM):
well, here's something of foreknowledge :-)
Menelvagor Valar (7:42:11 PM):
though I reckon you've already guessed it.
Menelvagor Valar (7:42:22 PM):
Estarion has set up a small ambush of his own.
ArPharazonV 7:42 pm
ArPharazonV (7:42:24 PM):
You've given me an advantage. I could use it to the fullest if I want to capture you, not if we want you to reach the clearing.
ArPharazonV (7:42:29 PM):
Yes. I figured so.
ArPharazonV 7:42 pm
ArPharazonV (7:42:47 PM):
ambushing me as I try to follow you to the ground, or so you think
Menelvagor Valar 7:42 pm
Menelvagor Valar (7:42:50 PM):
Except that you still forget that I can still hear you.
Menelvagor Valar (7:43:09 PM):
and I'll know that if you go completely silent, and not follow me pell-mell, my plan will have failed.
ArPharazonV 7:43 pm
ArPharazonV (7:43:13 PM):
trrrrue
Menelvagor Valar 7:43 pm
Menelvagor Valar (7:43:53 PM):
the entire point about making it seem I dropped out of the canopy is that you won't be able to track me on the ground by hearing alone.
ArPharazonV 7:44 pm
ArPharazonV (7:44:37 PM):
So if I find you and you know your plan has failed, you'll know I've got an extra sense.
Menelvagor Valar 7:44 pm
Menelvagor Valar (7:44:39 PM):
since an Elf, especially one who is skilled in woodscraft or sneaking, will not make any sound on normal packed or soft ground, and indeed, very little, if any at all on the forest floor.
Menelvagor Valar 7:45 pm
Menelvagor Valar (7:45:13 PM):
and that will make me abandon my plan and go straight towards where the party was headed.
ArPharazonV 7:45 pm
ArPharazonV (7:45:13 PM):
Aye. So I wouldn't know you weren't on the forest floor because I wouldn't be able to hear you on it.
Menelvagor Valar 7:45 pm
Menelvagor Valar (7:45:32 PM):
well, you'd know, but I don't know that yet ^^
Menelvagor Valar (7:45:59 PM):
Also, making you aware of something...
Menelvagor Valar (7:46:08 PM):
I am sitting next to a tree trunk.
Menelvagor Valar (7:46:16 PM):
which means I am not above the path.
Menelvagor Valar (7:46:23 PM):
I am on the northside of it.
ArPharazonV 7:46 pm
ArPharazonV (7:46:47 PM):
*nod*
Menelvagor Valar 7:47 pm
Menelvagor Valar (7:47:06 PM):
It doesn't give you much leeway, but some at least.
ArPharazonV 7:47 pm
ArPharazonV (7:47:24 PM):
I'll figure something out. But not today, if you don't mind.
Menelvagor Valar 7:47 pm
Menelvagor Valar (7:47:31 PM):
not at all :-)
Menelvagor Valar (7:47:37 PM):
there's plenty of things you can do :-)
Menelvagor Valar (7:47:42 PM):
I know a few myself :-D
Menelvagor Valar (7:47:51 PM):
would be interesting to see what you come up with :-)
Menelvagor Valar (7:48:12 PM):
I wonder if the others are still here *grin*
Eonwe Valar 7:48 pm
Eonwe Valar (7:48:24 PM):
Typing story :}
Menelvagor Valar 7:48 pm
Menelvagor Valar (7:48:27 PM):
hehe :-)
Eonwe Valar 7:48 pm
Eonwe Valar (7:48:30 PM):
But I'm still here :}
Menelvagor Valar 7:48 pm
Menelvagor Valar (7:48:47 PM):
then I guess you have read, more or less, my plans :-)
Menelvagor Valar 7:49 pm
Menelvagor Valar (7:49:46 PM):
My way of thinking is this: It's time for me to get away, one way or another, the easiest is to kill or injure my pursuer.
VardaValar1 7:49 pm
VardaValar1 (7:49:56 PM):
I'm here. :-)
Menelvagor Valar 7:50 pm
Menelvagor Valar (7:50:06 PM):
But I've gained valuable time for the party at any rate, even if only a few minutes.
karakedi25 7:50 pm
karakedi25 (7:50:06 PM):
I'm still here too
ArPharazonV 7:50 pm
ArPharazonV (7:50:09 PM):
It'll probably be something around realizing you making a noise and then going silent, while knowing more or less where you are exactly hiding, and figuring out your plan from that.
ArPharazonV (7:50:22 PM):
And then going silent and trying to sneak up on you.
Menelvagor Valar 7:50 pm
Menelvagor Valar (7:50:23 PM):
but we all know how much of a difference a minute can make, let alone two :-)
ArPharazonV 7:50 pm
ArPharazonV (7:50:32 PM):
Which will probably alert *you* enough to make a run for it.
Menelvagor Valar 7:51 pm
Menelvagor Valar (7:51:04 PM):
well, as I see it, your next action depends on how much you want a message sent to the party :-D
ArPharazonV 7:51 pm
ArPharazonV (7:51:04 PM):
Remember. I'm trying to capture you, not kill you yet. If I can get information from you, it won't be done when you're dead.
karakedi25 7:51 pm
karakedi25 (7:51:40 PM):
The battle of wits has begun!
Menelvagor Valar 7:51 pm
Menelvagor Valar (7:51:50 PM):
Aye, but of course, you have next to no knowledge on the Avari.
Menelvagor Valar (7:52:03 PM):
It has been several thousand years since Morgoth has fallen.
Menelvagor Valar (7:52:31 PM):
plenty of time for the Avari to have changed tactics.
ArPharazonV 7:53 pm
ArPharazonV (7:53:09 PM):
This is true. Neither Calaron nor the sorcerer would have much knowledge on you. Still, if I can trap you or capture you (I've still got a few orcs waiting down there to help) I might be able to learn from you about Auros' mission.
ArPharazonV (7:53:19 PM):
As far as Calaron knows.
Menelvagor Valar 7:53 pm
Menelvagor Valar (7:53:21 PM):
cyanide has been a rather valuable tool if you get my drift ^^
Menelvagor Valar 7:53 pm
Menelvagor Valar (7:53:53 PM):
of which you know also nothing of how much he has revealed, which is certainly not much :-)
Menelvagor Valar (7:54:07 PM):
all I know, but of course, you don't know that, is that his mission is to gather intel.
Menelvagor Valar (7:54:21 PM):
what sort of intel, or what for, I have no clue :-D
ArPharazonV 7:55 pm
ArPharazonV (7:55:14 PM):
I would not know that, indeed.
ArPharazonV (7:55:37 PM):
I might *suspect it* since I have Calaron's memories from the court, and the secrecy surrounding the mission, but it's worth a try anyway.
Menelvagor Valar 7:55 pm
Menelvagor Valar (7:55:54 PM):
for the sorcerer, definitely.
Menelvagor Valar (7:56:18 PM):
There's only one major issue with that really.
Menelvagor Valar (7:56:53 PM):
But that's the one thing Sauron or his minions have never understood.
Menelvagor Valar (7:57:02 PM):
Compassion and loyalty to a cause.
ArPharazonV 7:57 pm
ArPharazonV (7:57:14 PM):
Hmm. It is a good point.
ArPharazonV (7:57:39 PM):
I assume that while the sorcerer has taken Calaron's body and has access to his thoughts and memories, his emotions might be an issue.
Menelvagor Valar 7:58 pm
Menelvagor Valar (7:58:04 PM):
it would conflict heavily with the sorcerer's understanding.
ArPharazonV 7:58 pm
ArPharazonV (7:58:28 PM):
if Calaron has loyalty and compassion, does the sorcerer feel it? understand it? brush it off as something that's not to be combined with his own emotions?
Menelvagor Valar 7:58 pm
Menelvagor Valar (7:58:41 PM):
that's the one thing that, in my opinion, Tolkien has made very clear.
ArPharazonV 7:59 pm
ArPharazonV (7:59:09 PM):
I'm assuming that said sorcerer has had practice in taking over people, though it's probably the first time he took an elf.
Menelvagor Valar 7:59 pm
Menelvagor Valar (7:59:20 PM):
possibly.
ArPharazonV 7:59 pm
ArPharazonV (7:59:28 PM):
Would the personality of his host affect *him*?
Menelvagor Valar 7:59 pm
Menelvagor Valar (7:59:42 PM):
Only in the way that it would confuse him.
Menelvagor Valar (7:59:49 PM):
he cannot understand it.
ArPharazonV 8:00 pm
ArPharazonV (8:00:00 PM):
Hmm, that's likely.
Menelvagor Valar 8:00 pm
Menelvagor Valar (8:00:10 PM):
but I'd like to have the others' opinion on that too.
Menelvagor Valar (8:00:46 PM):
In a way, I think that's the one part of Calaron the sorcerer cannot control, for it is beyond his understanding.
Menelvagor Valar (8:01:04 PM):
and it is from that, that Calaron may temporarily regain control to get a message out.
Menelvagor Valar (8:01:16 PM):
if anything at all.
Menelvagor Valar (8:01:22 PM):
but that's my opinion.
ArPharazonV 8:01 pm
ArPharazonV (8:01:45 PM):
Could be. I'm not intending for Calaron to get a message out anyway, unless it's further hesitation at a certain... point in time which I won't tell you about yet.
Menelvagor Valar 8:01 pm
Menelvagor Valar (8:01:59 PM):
your choice :-)
ArPharazonV 8:02 pm
ArPharazonV (8:02:23 PM):
Ohh, I've got so much planned still for this, even though most of it will be in one sequence in Angmar.
Menelvagor Valar 8:02 pm
Menelvagor Valar (8:02:38 PM):
sounds cool :-)
ArPharazonV 8:02 pm
ArPharazonV (8:02:42 PM):
It'll probably be awful and cliche but I've got so much in my head.
Menelvagor Valar 8:02 pm
Menelvagor Valar (8:02:57 PM):
Rp tends to be like that.
Menelvagor Valar (8:03:17 PM):
but the way you get it out along with what others add to it generally make it anything but cliche.
ArPharazonV 8:03 pm
ArPharazonV (8:03:28 PM):
True.
Menelvagor Valar 8:04 pm
Menelvagor Valar (8:04:04 PM):
btw...
ArPharazonV 8:04 pm
ArPharazonV (8:04:16 PM):
I can't wait until I introduce a new (....or old?) element in the aftermath of the current battle of which you'll probably guess immediately what it's about.
Menelvagor Valar 8:04 pm
Menelvagor Valar (8:04:20 PM):
I deliberatly left you another way to know where I am :-)
Menelvagor Valar 8:04 pm
Menelvagor Valar (8:04:38 PM):
I'll see it when I see it :-)
ArPharazonV 8:04 pm
ArPharazonV (8:04:44 PM):
ok, time for bed
Menelvagor Valar 8:04 pm
Menelvagor Valar (8:04:46 PM):
"but instead retreating behind the treetrunk close to him with all the stealth and silence he could muster."
ArPharazonV 8:04 pm
ArPharazonV (8:04:49 PM):
saving and sending transcript
Menelvagor Valar 8:04 pm
Menelvagor Valar (8:04:59 PM):
it doesn't say I am completely silent :-)
ArPharazonV 8:05 pm
ArPharazonV (8:05:03 PM):
hehe
ArPharazonV (8:05:06 PM):
we'll see
Menelvagor Valar 8:05 pm
Menelvagor Valar (8:05:19 PM):
night night phar :-)
Menelvagor Valar (8:05:43 PM):
I'm going to jump the gun as well :-)
Menelvagor Valar (8:06:13 PM):
want to be well rested so I can shout my throat coarse tomorrow if need be ^^
ArPharazonV 8:06 pm
ArPharazonV (8:06:30 PM):
saved
VardaValar1 8:07 pm
VardaValar1 (8:07:19 PM):
Namarie, Menel :-)
VardaValar1 (8:07:24 PM):
Thanks Phar!
VardaValar1 (8:07:30 PM):
I'm waiting for Eonwe's post. :-)
ArPharazonV 8:08 pm
ArPharazonV (8:08:50 PM):
it's sent!
Menelvagor Valar 8:08 pm
Menelvagor Valar (8:08:55 PM):
Namarie :-)
ArPharazonV 8:09 pm
ArPharazonV (8:09:03 PM):
Be sure to add if you're discussing more RP with Eonwe ;)
karakedi25 8:09 pm
karakedi25 (8:09:07 PM):
thanks so much to both of you for moving the RP along. I look forward to seeing how it plays out :)
ArPharazonV 8:09 pm
ArPharazonV (8:09:08 PM):
Namarie all!
karakedi25 8:09 pm
karakedi25 (8:09:15 PM):
Namarie!
ArPharazonV has left the room.
8:09 pm
Menelvagor Valar 8:10 pm
Menelvagor Valar (8:10:23 PM): <>(oh, btw, my comp will stay on, while I sleep, so I'll still be here long after I am gone :-P )
VardaValar1 (8:11:27 PM): <>okie dokie
Eonwe Valar (8:17:59 PM): OK, my post is up :}
Eonwe Valar (8:18:05 PM): By the way,..
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<>Eonwe Valar (8:18:08 PM): *bang* Aftermeeting :}
VardaValar1 (8:18:18 PM): Thanks :-)
karakedi25 8:22 pm
karakedi25 (8:22:59 PM):
OK, Meren will post soon :)
Eonwe Valar 8:23 pm
Eonwe Valar (8:23:17 PM):
ack, noticed a typo..
Eonwe Valar (8:23:41 PM):
Don't know how that one got through to be posted.
Eonwe Valar 8:25 pm
Eonwe Valar (8:25:45 PM):
Feel free to comment on said post :}
VardaValar1 8:42 pm
VardaValar1 (8:42:38 PM):
Posted. That makes my best answer. I enjoyed Auros' powerful speech to the orcs!
Eonwe Valar 8:43 pm
Eonwe Valar (8:43:18 PM):
Thanks :}
VardaValar1 8:44 pm
VardaValar1 (8:44:53 PM):
I love the horse shows where they display some of their fighting moves, and put a few in here you may recognize.
VardaValar1 8:50 pm
VardaValar1 (8:50:24 PM):
Unrelated cool video:
Eonwe Valar 8:53 pm
Eonwe Valar (8:53:03 PM):
Amusing :}
Eonwe Valar 8:56 pm
Eonwe Valar (8:56:02 PM):
Hehe, Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory is on. Watching the computer scene :}
VardaValar1 8:56 pm
VardaValar1 (8:56:51 PM):
Enjoy!
VardaValar1 (8:57:04 PM):
Pallando is on Gmail chat, says hi!
Eonwe Valar 8:57 pm
Eonwe Valar (8:57:14 PM):
Heya to Pallando :}
karakedi25 8:59 pm
karakedi25 (8:59:28 PM):
ok, logging out--namarie all
Eonwe Valar 8:59 pm
Eonwe Valar (8:59:37 PM):
Sleep well Indis :}
karakedi25 has left the room.
8:59 pm
VardaValar1 9:00 pm
VardaValar1 (9:00:19 PM):
Namarie
VardaValar1 (9:00:26 PM):
Sleep? A likely story!
Eonwe Valar 9:00 pm
Eonwe Valar (9:00:30 PM):
:}
VardaValar1 9:05 pm
VardaValar1 (9:05:11 PM):
Namarie!
Eonwe Valar 9:05 pm
Eonwe Valar (9:05:18 PM):
Take care :}
VardaValar1 has left the room.
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