Valar Guild

November 12, 2006 Meeting

5pm EST (GMT - 5); (GMT = 22:00)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by:  Ar-Pharazon-(V) and Varda-(Valar)

Attending (13):
    Members: Aerandir-(V)/mordacil, ArPharazonV, Arwen V1, Bombur-(V)/MrMonkey2002Blah, Eonwe Valar, FinduilasV, FladrifV, Gilraen-(V)/Star of Phaet, Gimli-(V)/jetwest2000, Glorfindel VG, Menelvagor Valar, VardaValar1
    Visitor: oladys 123 (would like to join)

Before-meeting
Meeting begins
Membership:
    Edrahil-(V): new Full Member
    Galadriel-(V): Full Member now coming into European WoW
Web:
    Tolkien Site:
       Stories:
            "How to Dim a Too-Bright Elf" by Elwing-(V)
            "To See a World" ch 44 now up. by Nightwing; mentioned in a later section.
Gaming:
    Pokemon
    WoW:
      WoW street date announced. Discussion was in the After-meeting.
       Lothar server (Alliance)
       Uldaman server (Horde)
       Argent Dawn (Alliance): European members decided to go ahead and put the Valar branch on this server instead of Lightbringer.
Tolkien:
    Topic: Did the glow of elves cause problems in warfare?
    Topic: Faramir was chosen first for the Fellowship, Boromir was his replacement. How did this change what happened?
    Topic: Gollum, insanity, Frodo, Denethor
    Topic: Elves who died could eventually be reborn in their own children.
After-meeting:
    WoW street date announced
    Anime discussion

Before-meeting:
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1: Aiya Phar
VardaValar1: brb
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Had a little problem with the story site, fixed now I think
VardaValar1: It is meeting time, right? :-)
ArPharazonV: I think so, yeah :-)
VardaValar1: back
Menelvagor Valar has entered the room.
FladrifV has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: hey Menel
Star of Phaet has entered the room.
MrMonkey2002Blah has entered the room.
MrMonkey2002Blah: Hail
Star of Phaet: Aiya all
VardaValar1: Aiya :-)
FladrifV: Aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya all
ArPharazonV: hey Flad! Guess I wasn't late after all ;-)
VardaValar1: I'm about 8 minutes late if the computer clock is right
VardaValar1: We had a lot of power outages lately, have to trust the comp : )
ArPharazonV: actually, according to my timestamp you're a mere 3 minutes late
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya
VardaValar1: I feel better now : )
VardaValar1: Then let's get started and let you all go back to whatever you were doing soon as possible. : )
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VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Membership News:
VardaValar1: Eonwe made it : ) Aiya
Eonwe Valar: After 3 tries, aye :} Heya :}
VardaValar1: We have a new full member this week
VardaValar1: His name is Edrahil-(V)
VardaValar1: He plays WoW and a couple of betas, both of which must remain nameless.
VardaValar1: He is thinking he might make a character on our Lothar server to say hi : )
VardaValar1: Any other membership news?
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VardaValar1: Web News:
VardaValar1: On the Tolkien site, Stories section
VardaValar1: we have a new short story by Elwing-(V), humor piece:
VardaValar1: "How to Dim a Too-Bright Elf"
VardaValar1: http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/fiction/authors/Elwing/stories/HowtoDim.htm
VardaValar1: It even had Sauron-(Valar) laughing, so you guys should enjoy this one.
VardaValar1: Any other Web News?
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VardaValar1: Gaming News:
VardaValar1: Did anyone play anything besides WoW that they are allowed to talk about?
VardaValar1: I'm muzzled too. : )
VardaValar1: WoW Lothar Friday had a nice group on
Menelvagor Valar: been playing Pokemon games again.
Menelvagor Valar: same as usual :P
Eonwe Valar: My apologies for not making it Friday. I had to deal with auto issues, and by the time I made it home, it wasn't worht trying to get on.
VardaValar1: Ancalagon was worried about his low character being unable to play with all our 60's on WoW Lothar, so we dug out our lowbies and joined him instead. : )
VardaValar1: We had a full five playing with him, plus Elwing chatting on the side, so all went well anyway,
VardaValar1: It's always worth seeing you say hi, Eonwe. : )
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}
VardaValar1: We also were dealing with car issues Friday. Bilbo's car broke down in the thunderstorm.
VardaValar1: Maybe he was near your car. : )
Eonwe Valar: Hehe :}
Eonwe Valar: I was lucky enough for it not to be raining :}
VardaValar1: It wound up involving most of the family and one friend, and his car is in the shop now and he is just fine, except for a little head cold
Eonwe Valar: Sorry to hear that.
VardaValar1: Your car troubles get cleared up, Eonwe?
Eonwe Valar: Aye, taken care of that day.
VardaValar1: Congratulations!
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}
VardaValar1: hmm, make that two friends involved. Elwing came over for my birthday. : )
VardaValar1: Much chocolate cake was had by all.
Eonwe Valar: Happy Birthday! :}
VardaValar1: *had to bug Menel with a chocolate reference*
VardaValar1: Thanks : )
VardaValar1: We had some gaming and crafting going on in Uldaman as well, nothing big that I was involved in though.
VardaValar1: How is WoW Europe, Phar first?
ArPharazonV: oh, congratulations!
ArPharazonV: I'm in a talent-discussion in WoW, so a bit afk
VardaValar1: ok
VardaValar1: Menel, do you have Euro WoW news?
VardaValar1: ohhh, I have some Euro news!
VardaValar1: It's
VardaValar1: WoW and membership too
VardaValar1: Galadriel is back, wants to play WoW and picked Europe
VardaValar1: He wants to know what server to go to
ArPharazonV: Argent Dawn, to play with me, Menel, Fladrif, Finduilas, Valandil... but for the guildbranch, it was another server, I think
VardaValar1: Lightbringer, Phar
ArPharazonV: right!
VardaValar1: Sounds as if I should tell him to go to Argent Dawn instead?
ArPharazonV: I think so, can always make characters on Lightbringer if we ever get off the ground there
VardaValar1: It can't get off the ground if people don't go there, so that's circular
VardaValar1: Did you all sign the Lightbringer charter?
VardaValar1: Hmm, did anyone sign a charter on Lightbringer?
VardaValar1: This does not bode well. : )
ArPharazonV: I made an alt for it, though!
ArPharazonV: but not actually signed it yet
VardaValar1: You guys get after Finduilas if you really want one on Lightbringer
VardaValar1: It's very hard to make a Tolkien group on a WoW rp server.
VardaValar1: It's a problem for you guys to figure out though. : )
Menelvagor Valar: but not impossible.
VardaValar1: It hasn't happened in all this time, Menel
VardaValar1: Fin was taking flak from people for trying to do it.
VardaValar1: Because it was the wrong rp
VardaValar1: If you think there's a way, that sounds good, since you are mostly all there already.
VardaValar1: Good luck
mordacil has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Aerandir : )
mordacil: aiya
VardaValar1: Fladrif, you had WoW Euro news?
Menelvagor Valar: Well, Fin wants the Europe branch to be RP if on Argent Dawn, but we shouldnt set that as a prime directive.
VardaValar1: Isn't Argent Dawn an rp server?
VardaValar1: Surely you guys know your own server? : )
FladrifV: ad is an rp
ArPharazonV: aye, RP
ArPharazonV: and I'm happy too, because it's really weird to see non-rp names in WoW...
Menelvagor Valar: however, if 50% of the people there are actually Role Players, its an optimistic estimate.
VardaValar1: Ok, I'm going to leave Europe to the Europeans, will help if there's some way.
Menelvagor Valar: and only a handful of those are hardcore RP.
VardaValar1: So they were just giving Finduilas a hard time because they felt like it? : )
FinduilasV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Finduilas : )
FinduilasV: Aiya there m worthy Elentari
ArPharazonV: we have thousands of players on AD, there's always some hardcore RPer around... as long as Blizzard doesn't mind, you should simply ignore them
FinduilasV: and aiya to all the rest
ArPharazonV: Aiya Fin
VardaValar1: So you guys think it would be possible to set up a Tolkien-themed group on AD, even though it's WoW rp server?
Menelvagor Valar: I think it should be possible.
ArPharazonV: quite, yes
FinduilasV: what???
FinduilasV: :D
Menelvagor Valar: If only we can say we will not enforce RP, just RP when we feel like it.
ArPharazonV: our main problem has always been people, AFAIK
ArPharazonV: simply not that many regulars on AD
VardaValar1: They are putting support behind your earlier try for an Argent Dawn Valar branch : )
Menelvagor Valar: it would be what is called a "mild RP guild".
FinduilasV: wow :D :D :D
VardaValar1: Mild rp is usual for us anyway : )
VardaValar1: You can't have members in any guild without scouting for them
ArPharazonV: same in THG, we don't enforce RPing, but it's always fun to do when we feel like it
VardaValar1: We're just lucky to have some guys to start with. : )
VardaValar1: Fin, I have to tell you : )
VardaValar1: Galadriel wants to join into the WoW Europe group
VardaValar1: He's asking how to get with you folks
VardaValar1: He just got WoW
FinduilasV: hey , that is superb
FinduilasV: he can find me with any of my alts
ArPharazonV: btw, my paladin went on a strange adventure yesterday.. swimming around the Eastern Kingdoms
ArPharazonV: made it in about 3.5-4 hours from Southshore around Booty Bay to Arathi Highland, will continue to the north when I have more time :-)
Eonwe Valar: Hehe, my Paladin di that once too.
FinduilasV: cool :-) sounds familiar *chuckle*
VardaValar1: Funny : )
FinduilasV: i did that recently too , grin
FinduilasV: had to take a kettle to someone
VardaValar1: Hmm, a swimming party
FladrifV: oh thanks for your armor fin
FladrifV: gneo is wearing it now
ArPharazonV: I would have taken my druid in aquatic form, but he's raiding regularly, so that doesn't work ;-)
ArPharazonV: when I'm done with EK, I'll go swim around Kalimdor
ArPharazonV: I want to see this tauren village on the southside of Silithus...
Menelvagor Valar: Which comes to mind, there was a hunter who applied to my raid group called Erresea, I have to get in touch with that one :)
ArPharazonV: oh, I knew a hunter called Eressea once
ArPharazonV: she came with us to Nefarian
ArPharazonV: talked to her about the Guild, but never saw her again
VardaValar1: That's a name similar to the one Edrahil was using when he joined up, which was Eressean.
VardaValar1: You guys know you can "test" a person in ordinary chat?
VardaValar1: Don't have to mention that those are test questions until they pass.
VardaValar1: In the meanwhile, you can find out if they are polite
FinduilasV: you mean normal in say channel?
VardaValar1: Just chatting with someone can practically finish the whole thing off
VardaValar1: I usually do it with someone I'm gaming with.
VardaValar1: Party buddy
VardaValar1: In /say can be irritating
VardaValar1: So you guys want to start up the charter on AD again?
ArPharazonV: we should at least try to get some more people there, either from outside or by scouting, before we start up a charter again
ArPharazonV: Galadriel should help ;-)
VardaValar1: Ok, so you have Galadriel, Flad, Phar, Menel, Valandil
VardaValar1: It's hard to scout for new members if there isn't anything to recruit them into or to sign
FinduilasV: Yes, if i see him online again
VardaValar1: and the missing Aragorn
VardaValar1: One way to work it might be trying for Tolkien-onlies
VardaValar1: Then they can move to Full Member gamers afterward.
VardaValar1: They don't have to leave whatever guild they are in to do that
VardaValar1: Ok, let's move on.
Glorfindel VG has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Glorfindel : )
ArPharazonV: ok, I just quit WoW, so I'm ready to chat
VardaValar1: Tolkien:
Glorfindel VG: Hello :-)
FinduilasV: Aiya glorfindel
VardaValar1: How is that for good timing : )
ArPharazonV: I could give a WoW report now, but don't think there's much more to tell
Glorfindel VG: is WoW really as addictive as i have heard it is?
Glorfindel VG: i need to try it sometime
Glorfindel VG: hehe
VardaValar1: Aerandir/Mordacil is trying to do Calculus homework. : )
ArPharazonV: we got Patchwerk down to 1%, but nothing more... so close!
VardaValar1: WoW is dangerously addictive
VardaValar1: ;-)
ArPharazonV: indeed
Glorfindel VG: hahaha
Glorfindel VG: i need to get it
Glorfindel VG: ;-)
VardaValar1: We'll be glad to have you. : )
VardaValar1: Tolkien:
VardaValar1: A problem that Elwing brought up in her story might be fun to play with for a few minutes, since we haven't discussed it before.
Glorfindel VG: is it something where you just turn it on and play and start from the same place everytime
Glorfindel VG: or do you continue from your previous played game some how
Glorfindel VG: i have no idea what to expect
ArPharazonV: it's all continually saved on the server, and you pick up where you left off
VardaValar1: Ok, Tolkien later : )
ArPharazonV: same location, same level, same gear, same everything
ArPharazonV: as where you quit last time
Glorfindel VG: and what is the goal or motive that you are working towards?
Glorfindel VG: how do you win
Glorfindel VG: or advance
Glorfindel VG: or whatever it is you do
VardaValar1: Have you ever played a MMORPG?
ArPharazonV: you advance in several ways.... getting to the maximum level, getting the hardest bosses and dungeons defeated, getting the best gear...
Glorfindel VG: Ive played RPG's
ArPharazonV: getting reputation with factions...
Glorfindel VG: dont know what MMORPG is
ArPharazonV: I always compare it with Simcity etc...
VardaValar1: Ok, say Diablo 2's last game is still going even though you left. And there are thousands of others playing it at the same time.
VardaValar1: Not just five of you.
ArPharazonV: you don't have an actual "goal" in the end, you just continue to advance
Glorfindel VG: ahhh
Glorfindel VG: yeah i played diablo 2
Glorfindel VG: hehe
Glorfindel VG: that game was addictive!
Glorfindel VG: lol
VardaValar1: Aye. This is even worse. : )
Glorfindel VG: hehe :-)
Glorfindel VG: how long have y'all been playing
ArPharazonV: since april 2005
ArPharazonV: myself
Glorfindel VG: did you join wow first or valar guild first phar
ArPharazonV: valar guild
Glorfindel VG: and they got you in to it ;-)
Glorfindel VG: I see
Glorfindel VG: heeh
ArPharazonV: joined the Valar through War3
ArPharazonV: no, not really
ArPharazonV: I was planning to get it anyway
ArPharazonV: kinda big warcraft-fan
VardaValar1: Now he's more than kinda. ;-)
ArPharazonV: but they did get me on a server where everyone else played ;-)
VardaValar1: I just noticed a story news bit that got left out of the business earlier, sorry.
VardaValar1: http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/fiction/authorsT/Nightwing/ToSeeaWorld/See44.htm
VardaValar1: Update on the To See a World story by Nightwing.
VardaValar1: Ok - back to your discussion.
VardaValar1: or not.
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VardaValar1: Tolkien:
VardaValar1: Elves of a considerable age also have a considerable glow.
VardaValar1: This would not be a problem in warfare if it's open war, army vs army.
VardaValar1: But for guerilla fighting, it could be lethal.
VardaValar1: One wonders if any of the woods elves, such as the Green Elves, had this problem.
VardaValar1: As their population aged, would the glow have become a danger?
VardaValar1: Was Legolas chosen for the Fellowship partly because he was young enough not to have a dangerously bright glow?
VardaValar1: Would the glow from Glorfindel be a reason he would be undesirable to choose?
VardaValar1: Besides that Glorfindel was probably needed to lead the defense of Rivendell.
VardaValar1: Had Smaug not been defeated, and the defense strengthened there, Gandalf said there might not have been a queen in Gondor.
VardaValar1: Yet even so, there must have been a comparative trickle coming through to fight.
ArPharazonV: is it not possible Elves were able to hold back their glow if they preferred to be unseen?
VardaValar1: Guess I'll leave you folks to your side windows and work. : )
VardaValar1: Ahh, someone's here!
VardaValar1: That's a good question.
VardaValar1: If it's involuntarily coming through them, as their bodies age, they might have to work at it.
VardaValar1: If they don't have to think about it too hard, then it would not distract from the fighting
ArPharazonV: indeed
ArPharazonV: but if they're fighting already, a glow wouldn't make any difference?
VardaValar1: If it's in an open battle and not guerrilla warfare, it might even be good
VardaValar1: It could even be a morale booster?
ArPharazonV: it's also a clear target for enemy archers, though
ArPharazonV: Look, that Elf is glowing, must be old and important, aim for the glow!
ArPharazonV: ...or something like that
VardaValar1: Aye, Phar : )
VardaValar1: ouchie : )
Glorfindel VG: Did Legolas glow at all?
VardaValar1: It does not say
Glorfindel VG: I don't recall it mentioning that
Glorfindel VG: But you would think it would be significant in Moria
VardaValar1: They also don't say if he has a mother or siblings : )
VardaValar1: He really disliked the dark of Moria
VardaValar1: Aye
Glorfindel VG: And when Gandalf's light went out they could not see anything
VardaValar1: It could have made a target of him, and a comfort for the hobbits
VardaValar1: If the light was very faint, it may not have been much help
Glorfindel VG: He must not have really been glowing
Glorfindel VG: But wasn't Legolas even pretty old?
VardaValar1: He may have had to damp it there too
VardaValar1: He had to be a minimum of 500 years.
VardaValar1: That's the very least.
Glorfindel VG: He wasn't a relatively young elf was he?
VardaValar1: He was relatively young, yes
Glorfindel VG: ahh
VardaValar1: As the son of Thranduil
Glorfindel VG: Well I remember a passage in Fangorn where he seems really old compared to the others
VardaValar1: Oropher or Thranduil moved to the Greenwood
Glorfindel VG: but I guess he was relatively young for an elf still
VardaValar1: Aye, he was
ArPharazonV: well, he is older than the others, by far... but still young for an elf :-)
VardaValar1: Aye, Glorfindel, at Fangorn Forest is where I get the 500 minimum age.
VardaValar1: He hadn't felt young while with the "children" of the Fellowship, but around other elves, he was young
VardaValar1: Elrond's children would be older than he was
Glorfindel VG: Ahh
VardaValar1: Apparently Legolas was born after the move to the Greenwood
VardaValar1: Probably after the Last Alliance was over, and was just history to him.
VardaValar1: He was surely old enough to be one of the captains in the Battle of Five Armies.
FinduilasV: is there any information available about facts like this?
VardaValar1: Which?
FinduilasV: I mean official, from tolkien himself as to when Legolas was born
VardaValar1: We do have our Encyc up : )
VardaValar1: No
VardaValar1: JRRT never said
VardaValar1: He also never said a mother's name
VardaValar1: Legolas was barely sketched in as a character in a lot of ways.
ArPharazonV: neither was Gimli
VardaValar1: I agree
VardaValar1: However
VardaValar1: Gimli's ancestry is carefully written out
VardaValar1: leaving out the female dwarves : )
ArPharazonV: yes, but beyond his father and his heritage, we still don't know a lot
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: He would have been a youngster at the time of the Battle of Five Armies
Glorfindel VG: But had Gandalf not insisted on Merry and Pippin coming, would Elrond not have sent Glorfindel or one of the others? Do you think their glow really had an affect on this decision?
VardaValar1: Gloin would have had a family
VardaValar1: It states definitely that Glorfindel by name was not going to be sent.
VardaValar1: They didn't need a warrior of the type that operated in armies, but one who knew guerrilla warfare.
VardaValar1: The elves of Mirkwood were familiar with it
Glorfindel VG: Aye
VardaValar1: I suspect they would also have had good reason to learn to damp their glow!
Glorfindel VG: Legolas would have went either way I imagine
Glorfindel VG: but had not Merry and pippin went as Elrond suggested
VardaValar1: The fact that Mirkwood had no dependence on any Elf Ring had to be a factor.
Glorfindel VG: who might have went in their place
VardaValar1: Elrond really didn't have the choosing of most of the company.
VardaValar1: He didn't even call the conference
VardaValar1: But he knew that a conference was being called and tried to cooperate with the Ones doing it.
VardaValar1: He realized that the ones being brought to the conference were the ones he had to look at for the Fellowship.
VardaValar1: Boromir is especially interesting here.
VardaValar1: He was probably not supposed to be the one coming, as the dream to come was sent many times to his brother Faramir.
VardaValar1: After it looked as if Faramir was a lost cause due to Denethor, Boromir seemed to be second choice, and received one dream.
VardaValar1: Faramir would probably have counseled Frodo to go on, instead of scaring him into it.
MrMonkey2002Blah has left the room.
Glorfindel VG: Indeed
VardaValar1: So the result would be the same, but less violent.
Glorfindel VG: Aragorn and Faramir were the only two who never seemed tested by the ring
VardaValar1: They had their own kind of testing
VardaValar1: Faramir was already strongly against it, unwilling to pick it up even if it were lying by the side of the road.
VardaValar1: Aragorn grew up with a "father' who wore an elven ring.
VardaValar1: They had to guard against Sauron all the time
VardaValar1: Gimli had enormous resistance as a dwarf, as did the hobbits.
Glorfindel VG: Ahh, very true
Glorfindel VG: Poor Boromir didn't stand a chance :-(
VardaValar1: That resistance probably was part of the reason Elrond accepted Merry and Pippin, as you brought up earlier.
VardaValar1: Boromir redeemed himself. : )
VardaValar1: Boromir didn't have the tools to defend himself against the Ring that the others had.
Glorfindel VG: Aue
Glorfindel VG: aye*
Glorfindel VG: another good reason merry and pippin went
VardaValar1: Faramir knew a lot from scholarly activity, that Boromir didn't touch.
Glorfindel VG: if only to save boromir
VardaValar1: Aye, Glorfindel!
VardaValar1: I had not thought about that. : ) Well said!
Glorfindel VG: hehe thank you
VardaValar1: From the Valar's point of view, that was extremely important. And they called the conference. : )
VardaValar1: One wonders though, if Faramir had gone, how things would have turned out in Gondor.
VardaValar1: He would have strongly supported Aragorn, and perhaps Boromir would listen to him.
VardaValar1: But Denethor would not.
Eonwe Valar: The Fellowship may not have split up had Faramir been there.
Glorfindel VG: But Denethor might not have gone so crazy if Boromir were with him
VardaValar1: Denethor would probably still have been dead, you think?
VardaValar1: Denethor was crazed from seeing the twisted versions of reality fed him by Sauron through the Palantir.
VardaValar1: He might have believe Faramir had turned traitor.
Eonwe Valar: Denethor would have no reason to have gone so far over the edge.
VardaValar1: True.
ArPharazonV: he probably would not have sent Boromir back to Osgiliath, anyway
VardaValar1: Aye, Phar.
Eonwe Valar: If Boromir said it was too dangerous, that would've been the end of the discussion.
VardaValar1: How would Aragorn have had to handle the problem of the sitting Stewards?
VardaValar1: I'm wondering why the Valar would have called Faramir instead of Boromir from the beginning.
VardaValar1: There must have been a reason.
Eonwe Valar: Aragorn handled it well as he did. If the Steward didn't want to do his duty after Aragorn was shown to be the rightful heir of Isildur, he would've had to content with the citizens of Gondor.
FinduilasV: It actually sais somewhere how old Gimli was at that time , couldnt have been much more than twenty or so
VardaValar1: Denethor would have also had to explain why he wasn't doing the honorable Stewardly duty to Boromir, who would have believed Faramir.
FinduilasV: maybe younger
VardaValar1: Fin, are you referring back to Gimli at the Battle of Five Armies time?
FinduilasV: sorry , yes slipped a few lines
FinduilasV: forget me
VardaValar1: heh, ok, had to reorient there. Thanks
VardaValar1: Feel free to look it up and tell us. : )
Eonwe Valar: The Valar might've chosen Faramir as the most likely to act in the best interest of destroying the Ring, but it seems from Tolkien's thoughts on Gandalf in the Letters that there was a power higher than the Valar working as well.
VardaValar1: Eru?
ArPharazonV: fate :-)
VardaValar1: Eru makes fate. : )
VardaValar1: Calls it Song.
Eonwe Valar: It seems from the Letters that is was Eru who dealt with Gandalf's death, thus Eru must've been guiding things in some manner during this time as well.
Glorfindel VG: Eru should have just smote Sauron and called it a day :-)
Eonwe Valar: The Valar chose Faramir, but Denethor did not listen. Boromir was sent.
VardaValar1: hehe Glor
Eonwe Valar: Since they did not have Faramir to guide them through Ithilien, Gollum was sent.
VardaValar1: Damage control.
Eonwe Valar: Thus Gollum was given a chance at redemption he might not otherwise have had.,
VardaValar1: One wonders if a different opportunity might have been given to Gollum that would have had a better chance of working.
VardaValar1: But aye Eonwe.
Glorfindel VG: Different opportunity of redemption?
VardaValar1: Yes, Glorfindel.
ArPharazonV: are we planning to outsmart the Valar now? or are we talking about what if Faramir was with them instead of Boromir?
VardaValar1: It's if Faramir was along
VardaValar1: and what Eru was doing.
VardaValar1: Eru, in the Letters, was said to also be an influence. Scroll back to Eonwe's comments above.
Eonwe Valar: If Faramir went along, the Fellowship likely would not have divided, since it was Boromir's fall that gave Frodo the determination to go alone.
VardaValar1: Gandalf was also not supposed to die.
Glorfindel VG: Then what do you suppose Aragorn would have chosen had that not happened?
Eonwe Valar: But that could not have been changed by Faramir being there.
VardaValar1: Aragorn originally planned to accompany Boromir to Minas Tirith.
Glorfindel VG: accompany faramir to minas tirith in this case?
ArPharazonV: bringing the Hobbits with him? or sending Frodo and others off on their own?
Eonwe Valar: Assuming Gandalf lived, yes.
Glorfindel VG: and still end up sending frodo and sam off alone?
VardaValar1: Maybe Gandalf knew he would probably be taken out of action in Moria, as the only one who could go against the Balrog even as a delaying action.
Eonwe Valar: Gandalf at least would've gone on with Frodo, but it still would've been hard in the end for Frodo to part with the Ring.
Arwen V1 has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: The way it happened, the power of the Ring worked against itself to free Frodo.
VardaValar1: Yes, Faramir would probably have counseled for Frodo to go on, maybe helping him through Ithilien, as that was his main stomping grounds.
VardaValar1: Aiya Arwen :-)
Glorfindel VG: Aye, but Gandalf still would have fallen reguardless of Faramir or Boromir I think
VardaValar1: Probably, Glorfindel
Eonwe Valar: As far as alerting the inhabitants of Moria, Pippin was more influential than Boromir.
Glorfindel VG: But Boromir would not have died, which would have increased the strenth and defenses of minas tirith doing the battles
ArPharazonV: now maybe if Pippin hadn't been there, they wouldn't have gotten the attention of enemies..
ArPharazonV: aye, Eonwe
VardaValar1: Maybe Faramir would have been giving Pippin attention and prevented it. ; )
Eonwe Valar: Hehe
Arwen V1: Maybe Gandalf *needed* to fall
Glorfindel VG: maybe indeed
Glorfindel VG: but it sure screwed things up for a while :-)
ArPharazonV: maybe that's why Eru gave Gandalf his life back... because it's not his own fault that he fell ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Gandalf says that he could not force BIlbo to give up the Ring, that Bilbo had to do so of his own free will. Forcing him to give it up would've broken Bilbo.
Glorfindel VG: He would have had to force Frodo in the end then I imagine
Eonwe Valar: I assume similar troubles would've faced Frodo.
VardaValar1: It says that because the only one left of the Istari doing his duty was Gandalf that he needed to return with more power to do all their work. Not in those words.
Eonwe Valar: Gollum was really the best choice to help Frodo relinquish the Ring then.
ArPharazonV: would Frodo still have been broken then if the Ring was destroyed?
VardaValar1: Eru said that anything that Melkor messed up in the Song would be turned around in the end to work for Eru. That didn't prevent it from being bad at the start.
ArPharazonV: wouldn't the hold over his mind be gone?
ArPharazonV: if Gandalf forced Frodo to destroy the Ring, it would have broken him at the time...
VardaValar1: In the Letters again, it tells that Frodo had to take the Ring to himself for a bit, but then he would have probably destroyed it by throwing himself in. If I remember right.
ArPharazonV: but wouldn't he be back to normal after the Ring was destroyed?
Eonwe Valar: I think when it says that Gandalf making Bilbo would've broken him, it means Gandalf would've had to break Bilbo's will.
Glorfindel VG: break his mind maybe
ArPharazonV: yes, I might just have a hard time understanding that...
Eonwe Valar: That would not have been so easily healed by tossing the Ring into Mount Doom.
ArPharazonV: how it could be permanent
Glorfindel VG: Frodo's madness did seem to vanish once Gollum fell in and the ring destroyed
ArPharazonV: indeed
VardaValar1: Most of it, aye.
Eonwe Valar: Look at Denethor. After all the time he combatted Sauron, he'd been holding up the best he could, but after losing (as he believed) both of his sons and seeing no victory in sight to console him, he finally broke.
VardaValar1: Aye, Eonwe.
VardaValar1: A huge part of the War of the Ring was mental.
VardaValar1: The elves had to accept fading away with the loss of their Rings.
VardaValar1: Each Ringbearer had to have a powerful will, no ambition to speak of.
VardaValar1: And he needed to get the Ring in an act that was legitimate.
VardaValar1: Inheritence made Frodo the best choice there.
VardaValar1: *a
Glorfindel VG: poor old smeagol :-(
VardaValar1: Aye
ArPharazonV: well, what would have happened to Gollum if the Ring was destroyed?
Glorfindel VG: Suppose he had found the ring instead of Deagol, he may have held off longer
VardaValar1: Four hobbits in the party. I wonder if that strengthened the Fellowship will as a whole? And Gimli for the same reason.
ArPharazonV: voices of reason, Varda?
VardaValar1: Deagol might then have tried to take it from him? Could still be a lethal problem.
ArPharazonV: if some are more resistent, they might hold back the desires of the rest?
VardaValar1: I actually meant as a group will thing.
Eonwe Valar: A reminder of what they were there to protect.
VardaValar1: Aye, Eonwe. That as well.
Eonwe Valar: Plus combat experience for the hobbits, who would need it :}
VardaValar1: Aye!
mordacil has left the room.
VardaValar1: The hobbits had to learn to defend themselves, grow up, just as Men had to in a larger way.
ArPharazonV: Sam killed his first orc in Moria.. he slew some more in Mordor... combat experience is good ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Pippin grew alot in the journey, and not just upward or outward :}
Glorfindel VG: Merry too
Glorfindel VG: you could definately see their change when they returned to the Shire in the end
VardaValar1: Frodo fought too, but he never killed. That would have messed with his special ability to fight.
VardaValar1: Finrod lost some of his power versus Sauron just because he was involved very obliquely with the Kinslaying.
VardaValar1: Aye. The War of the Ring strengthened Men and Hobbits so they didn't need all that help from Elves and Maiar.
Eonwe Valar: I'm curious how the sons of Fëanor would've been affected in that situation.
VardaValar1: Men became a worthy group to take over the stewardship of Arda when the Elves were mostly out of the picture.
VardaValar1: In a Song vs Sauron as Finrod was? They would hardly make it past the first verse. : )
VardaValar1: Maybe I'
VardaValar1: m being unkind there.
Eonwe Valar: Well, that depends.
Eonwe Valar: Finrod felt guilt for his participation in the Kinslaying. Some of Fëanor's sons not so much.
VardaValar1: It was not the guilt, but the evil of the act that undermined Finrod's position.
Eonwe Valar: Fëanor felt no guilt and was not undermined in his ability to battle 7 Balrogs.
ArPharazonV: ok, that went wrong
ArPharazonV: *testing*
Glorfindel VG: The guilt may have even helped him?
VardaValar1: Hi Phar
VardaValar1: Possible, Glor
VardaValar1: The balrog thing was physical though
ArPharazonV has left the room.
VardaValar1: hmm, my transcript better be good tonight. : )
FinduilasV: Phara has some huge connection problems at rthe moment
VardaValar1: ouch
FinduilasV: vbut he is still in my side window
Eonwe Valar: I suppose, but his will kept him going despite grevious injuries.
VardaValar1: Feanor was an intresting case.
VardaValar1: And aye, Eonwe
VardaValar1: Feanor was immensely strong in willpower and creativity
VardaValar1: His moral strength had some flaws. But he deeply loved his father.
ArPharazonV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Welcome back : )
VardaValar1: How's the connection?
ArPharazonV: it says all of you just came back
ArPharazonV: :P
Glorfindel VG: Nope just you :-)
VardaValar1: To us, you just came back : )
VardaValar1: Feels like Battlenet's netsplit. : ) Old times!
ArPharazonV: VardaValar1: The balrog thing was physical thoughVardaValar1 has entered the room.Menelvagor Valar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: FladrifV has entered the room.Star of Phaet has entered the room.Arwen V1 has entered the room.Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: FinduilasV has entered the room.Glorfindel VG has entered the room.VardaValar1: Welcome back : )
VardaValar1: Aye, Phar. Looks like a netsplit.
ArPharazonV: really strange, but it must have been me, since my own connection blew out for a while, of that I am sure
VardaValar1: Happened to me here before too, been a while.
ArPharazonV: so it's not actually AIM
ArPharazonV: but I'm back now, so...
ArPharazonV: what did I miss?
oladys 123 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya! Good to see you again : )
Glorfindel VG: Glaurung VS. Gothmog
Glorfindel VG: hehe
FinduilasV: Aiya, Olady s :-)
ArPharazonV: oh, sounds like a nice match-up
ArPharazonV: but I'm sure that's not what you meant :-)
Glorfindel VG: it is what i mean
Glorfindel VG: hehe
Glorfindel VG: but not what what you missed
Glorfindel VG: would be a cool match though :P
oladys 123: hello! tis me again... guess I am a dwarf
oladys 123: nobody really knows how dwarf ladies look like
VardaValar1: A few comments on Feanor and Finrod while you were netsplit.
ArPharazonV: hmm
VardaValar1: Now that's another subject : )
VardaValar1: They are supposed to look like the dwarf men pretty much. : ) At least to non-dwarves!
oladys 123: right
ArPharazonV: (it's the beards)
Glorfindel VG: hahaha
Eonwe Valar: Pardon oladys, remind me of who you are? :}
FinduilasV: She is a friend of mine
Glorfindel VG: oladys 123: I am a dwarf
oladys 123: It will be my honor to introduce my self
Eonwe Valar: Ah, ok
oladys 123: oh Find beat me to that
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: I knew I recognized the name, just trying to connect it with the person :}
oladys 123: that is just
Star of Phaet: oladys was in a meeting a few weeks back as a visitor, I believe, which is probably wheer you saw the name, Eo
Eonwe Valar: Thanks, Gilraen :}
oladys 123: yes, that is right
Star of Phaet: np. I'm good at remembering generally useless information : )
Eonwe Valar: I figured it was a meeting, since that's the primary time I'm here :}
VardaValar1: That one happens to be helpful info. : )
Eonwe Valar: But it's nice to be able to connect the name with the person :}
Star of Phaet: that has to be a first then, Varda ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Another note on Fëanor, if I may: despite acting in violence against his own brother, which certainly can't be much better than the Kinslaying, his will was able to contend with Morgoth's will at the gates of Formenos.
oladys 123: especially when the name is sooo not Varda
VardaValar1: Aye, Feaonor was powerful of spirit. He also thought correctly that Morgoth was after the Silmarils, didn't he?
Glorfindel VG: Hmm i dont even remember that..
Glorfindel VG: I think I am going to start readin gthe SIl again
Eonwe Valar: Thought? more like knew :}\
FinduilasV: Feanor was one of the mightiest Elves that ever lived
VardaValar1: One of the fun things about these chats is picking up new bits and chunks : )
FinduilasV: A shame that he got it all wrong somehow ..
Eonwe Valar: Pardon, missed the "correctly" in your post :}
VardaValar1: Feanor was indeed powerful, except for a spotty moral sense.
FinduilasV: He could have been great indeed
Glorfindel VG: Yeah :-) I think I should make a goal of reading LOTR & TheSIL once a year
Eonwe Valar: The sons of Finwë had the greatest potential of the Eldar in my opinion. Too bad we don't seem to hear much about great deeds from Finarfin.
Eonwe Valar: His greatest claim to fame seems that he was able to swallow his pride and lead a portion of his people back to Valinor.
Eonwe Valar: I suppose that's no small feat for the proud Noldor...
VardaValar1: That's because Finarfin took his people back to Valinor outside the story. : (
VardaValar1: Major moral fiber.
VardaValar1: I would like to have heard more of all the elves in Valinor
oladys 123: fiber is good for digestion... sorry that was random
VardaValar1: hehe
Eonwe Valar: But a nice piece about how he fought in the War of Wrath and took some big guy out would've been appreciated :}
VardaValar1: Sounds like what Morgoth-(Valar) or Sauron-(Valar) would tell me. Couple of cards. ;-)
Eonwe Valar: afk for a sec
VardaValar1: Aye, the War of Wrath could have used a lot more detail.
VardaValar1: Poor Tolkien. We'd have kept him writing all the time. : )
Eonwe Valar: back
VardaValar1: He needed to make a living though. Know that feeling. : )
Eonwe Valar: Oh yeah, like he'd sooo hate that :}
ArPharazonV: if we had our way, he'd still be writing now ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Everyone buy 5 of each of his books. Making a living problem solved :}
VardaValar1: He commented that people would say how they loved reading his books - at the library.
oladys 123: but i bet unlike Rowling he would still deliver first class
Glorfindel VG: But at least it leaves alot of spaces that are open for interpretation
Glorfindel VG: thats what i love
VardaValar1: And now we buy used paperbacks. No money to the author.
Eonwe Valar: Hardback for your home copy, paperback for your travelling copy, another paperback to loan out, another in case that doesn't come back, and a fifth just in case you need an extra :}
ArPharazonV: one by every computer in the house ;-)
VardaValar1: And when your newest copy loses one-third of its pages on the floor like mine. Where's the glue?
Glorfindel VG: What if Tolkien were alive and joined in on our discussions
VardaValar1: I do that for the LotR and Sil, Phar. ; )
Glorfindel VG: that would be interested
FinduilasV: I hate to say this, friends ...
Glorfindel VG: interesting**
Glorfindel VG: hhehehe
Eonwe Valar: Oh, and one so you can highlight favorite passages without ruining your home or travelling copies :}
FinduilasV: but .. sighj
FinduilasV: /me waves and bows]
Eonwe Valar: Take care Finduilas :}
Eonwe Valar: Watch out for dragons :}
VardaValar1: Great thought, Eonwe!
FinduilasV: I will rtry L-)
ArPharazonV: bye Finduilas!
Glorfindel VG: bye Fin
Glorfindel VG: take care
VardaValar1: Or make an article out of those so you can find it on our Tolkien site : )
FinduilasV: Namarie altoghether!
Star of Phaet: Namarie
FladrifV: bye fin
Eonwe Valar: and young reckless mortals carrying black swords too :}
FinduilasV: hihi
FinduilasV: I hope I find the time for it :-)
FinduilasV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: For fun stories about the sons of Fëanor, read my part of the Stories section :}
VardaValar1: Fin has to get about 3 and half hours sleep before she has to get up.
Eonwe Valar: The Valar Guild website is the only place you'll find my stories displayed with my permission :}
Eonwe Valar: Ok, done plugging the Stories page and my own stories :}
VardaValar1: Bless you, Eonwe : )
Glorfindel VG: I love your stories Eonwe
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :} It's nice to hear what people think about them :}
VardaValar1: I like to re-read them even. : )
Eonwe Valar: Every now and then I even get an e-mail about one :}
oladys 123: well, I am sorry, I have to leave you so soon, but I need to bring dinner to the table
Arwen V1: hehe
Eonwe Valar: I'm glad there are people out ther ewho enjoy reading them as much as I do writing them :}
Eonwe Valar: Take care oladys :}
Eonwe Valar: Nice to see you again :}
VardaValar1: I also am about to slide out for dinner
Glorfindel VG: Tolkien himself would be proud
Glorfindel VG: bye bye olady
VardaValar1: Eonwe's stories are not only a fun and interesting read, but have accurate Tolkien info
Star of Phaet: Bye, oladys
Glorfindel VG: yep yep
Glorfindel VG: Last time I started reading them I could not stop honestly
Glorfindel VG: hehehe
Eonwe Valar: Well, some stretch the lore probably, but none break it to the best of my ability
Eonwe Valar: None break it at all I'm pretty sure.
VardaValar1: Stretching works in fiction : )
oladys 123 has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: I do keep my stories well within the bounds of Tolkien's world though.
VardaValar1: None of yours broke it
VardaValar1: I ran across a bit in BoLT 2 yesterday where it said
VardaValar1: that Elves who died could eventually be reborn in their own children.
VardaValar1: So if they had no children, could they jump to another line?
VardaValar1: I'm thinking so. : )
Eonwe Valar: I remember that part.
VardaValar1: I don't know how that squares with the later story line
VardaValar1: I used that in one of my stories
Eonwe Valar: I don't know how that would even work.
Eonwe Valar: If you have a child, the child has a fea. For the parent to be reborn in their children, it'd have to kick out the child's fea.
VardaValar1: It's a little similar to the dwarves saying the Seven Fathers were reborn in their children's lines.
Eonwe Valar: Or the child would have to be born without a fea.
VardaValar1: No, the fea that would be for the child would be that elf
VardaValar1: Not kicking anyone
ArPharazonV: well, it wouldn't actually be the first-generation-child, of course...
VardaValar1: Just be the fea that is planned for that body
Eonwe Valar: But if the parent is still alive and the child is born and growing.
VardaValar1: It would be down the line most likely aye :-)
ArPharazonV: when Feanor died, he didn't take over the body of one of his seven sons
Eonwe Valar: Well, I suppose that makes a little more sense.
ArPharazonV: for example
VardaValar1: Feanor would not be allowed to be reborn
ArPharazonV: yes, but you get the point, Varda
VardaValar1: Yes : )
ArPharazonV: Fingolfin didn't take over Fingon's body either
ArPharazonV: it would indeed be further down the line
Eonwe Valar: When he says "Children" I take that literally, as I assume he would've said "one of his line" or similar if he meant that.
VardaValar1: If reborn it would probably be well down the line. This was also suggested for the Seven Fathers
ArPharazonV: you can't be reborn if you're still alive ;-)
VardaValar1: I took it as down the line the first time I saw it.
Eonwe Valar: Well, there were supposedly 5 or 6 Durins in a straight line.
VardaValar1: hmm
VardaValar1: Not with a jump?
Eonwe Valar: I believe the part in Book 12 talking about Dwarves covers that.
VardaValar1: I don[t have book 13. *mutters*
Eonwe Valar: No one has book 13 yet :}
VardaValar1: book 12
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: Keep hitting the three for some reason
ArPharazonV: well, unless Feär can jump back through time to be reborn in their own children while they're actually still alive...
VardaValar1: 13 is Children of Hurin, not out yet
VardaValar1: Actually - time might be unimportant to a fea. But the books do imply it's a later time.
VardaValar1: Family is eating. I'm going to grab something too. : )
Eonwe Valar: Enjoy :}
Eonwe Valar: The Valar seem to operate within the boundaries of Time, so I assume Fëar would too.
Eonwe Valar: Bah, I can't find the piece in Book 12 I'm looking for. I'll have to dig it out later,.. and write a comprehensive article/paper on Dwarves for the Encyclopedia.
jetwest2000 has entered the room.
jetwest2000: hi i finally made it
ArPharazonV: hi!
jetwest2000: downloaded the wrong aim
jetwest2000: this is gimli
Arwen V1: Hi Gimili =)
jetwest2000: hiya
jetwest2000: soo hows everyone doin : P
Eonwe Valar: Hey Gimli :}
ArPharazonV: Aiya Gimli!
Eonwe Valar: Pretty good :}
jetwest2000: its been so long since i have used aim
Eonwe Valar: We were just talking abouit Dwarves :}
jetwest2000: ooooo
jetwest2000: i like
jetwest2000: <---dances around
Eonwe Valar: Well, technically about Elves :}
Eonwe Valar: but it led us to some talk about Dwarves :}
Eonwe Valar: About the rebirth of Elves into the bodies of the children.
jetwest2000: oh ok
Eonwe Valar: It brought up the Fathers of the Dwarves, how they are said to be reborn into one of their line every so often.
Eonwe Valar: Actually, that struck enough of a spark in my memory to share in part at least what I wanted to glean from Book 12.
Eonwe Valar: Somewhere in the discussion on Dwarves in Book 12, it mentions that the Dwarf Fathers may not actually be reborn. They simply "sleep" for so long, then at some point wake back up and take up their kingship again.
jetwest2000: interesting
ArPharazonV: indeed, since didn't Durin the sixth actually die? Durin's Bane and all that?
Eonwe Valar: I wish I could've found page numbers to reference, but that's what I remember reading.
jetwest2000: is that from the sumer.
jetwest2000: i dont know how to spell it : P
ArPharazonV: and yet, a seventh was born after the Lotr timeline
Eonwe Valar: Well, that would show a contradiction to what I just stated and therefore negate it it seems :}
ArPharazonV: or was that Durin the fourth.. not sure
Eonwe Valar: Another reason for me to write a comprehensive article on Dwarves.
jetwest2000: i would love to read it : ))
Eonwe Valar: Might not be until mid-December :}
top

After-meeting:
jetwest2000 has left the room.
jetwest2000 has entered the room.
jetwest2000: um whoa
jetwest2000: bunch of people just entered, but i thought they were here already
Eonwe Valar: You got netsplit for a moment :}
ArPharazonV: hmm...
ArPharazonV: sounds familiar ;-)
jetwest2000: oh,
jetwest2000: afk a min, getting food
Eonwe Valar: ok
Eonwe Valar: Oh, forgot to mention: WoW street date announced.
Eonwe Valar: *WoW:BC that is
Arwen V1: I noticed =o
VardaValar1: back
VardaValar1: Gimli came in while I was at supper. Now I'm here while he's at supper. hehe
VardaValar1: Jan sometime, Eonwe? When did it say?
ArPharazonV: 16th, I think?
Eonwe Valar: 16th
jetwest2000: back
Eonwe Valar: The Collector's edition is $70.
Eonwe Valar: As much as I like Blizzard, that price makes me think twice.
Arwen V1: oh wow
jetwest2000: ouch
VardaValar1: Aiya Gimli : )
jetwest2000: i had downloaded the wrong aim
jetwest2000: hehe
VardaValar1: Is that price for the whole thing, not just the expansion?
Eonwe Valar: I need to find a way to knock that price down a bit before I grab it.
VardaValar1: www.aim.com?
jetwest2000: EBAY!!!!
jetwest2000 has left the room.
VardaValar1: hehe
Eonwe Valar: 10% coupon + $10 off gift certificate ought to help some.
VardaValar1: He has been hitting Ebay for some nice deals lately. Looks like netsplit again.
jetwest2000 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Netsplit again?
Eonwe Valar: If I can get the 10% off coupon, heh.
jetwest2000: no, i downloaded aim triton
jetwest2000: found out it wasnt adequet
VardaValar1: ouch
VardaValar1: What was wrong with it?
jetwest2000: couldn't find the chat room : P
Eonwe Valar: I'm betting you're more likely to pay more on Ebay for this particular item :}
jetwest2000: dunno, i get loads of things cheeper, that and amazon
VardaValar1: So what are you using now, Gimli?
Eonwe Valar: Collector's editions are too rare. The Blizzcon beta key/Murky code card was going for over $300.
VardaValar1: Murky was very cute, but $300?
jetwest2000: im using a guess the original messenger
VardaValar1: If you got it off www.aim.com then probably yes. : )
Eonwe Valar: You can easily find somewhere on the net a dancing baby murloc if you really want to see him over and over :}
jetwest2000: well i also got aim triton off there as well
Eonwe Valar: There's some sort of adopt-a-murloc page somewhere.
jetwest2000: ooo i dont like murlocks
ArPharazonV: http://thegamershideout.com/blizzcon/murloc.gif
VardaValar1: chcking, I have version 5.9.6089
Eonwe Valar: See, Phar brought it right up :}
Eonwe Valar: Thanks Phar :}
VardaValar1: He's our high speed surfer : )
ArPharazonV: someone on our raid-forum has it for avatar :-)
VardaValar1: fun
VardaValar1: How is it that you're still awake, Phar? : )
Eonwe Valar: Personally, I'd love to get my Orc Hunter the Turtle mount from the card game, match that with his Turtle pet, and get Speedy the noncombat turtle pet :}
jetwest2000: i was watching some anime before i got on : P
Eonwe Valar: What'd you watch, Gimli?
ArPharazonV: oh, I don't have to get up for 9 more hours
jetwest2000: d
jetwest2000: Dear
VardaValar1: That helps.
jetwest2000: grr
ArPharazonV: and I usually try to wait until chat in this room dies down
jetwest2000: DearS
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Eonwe Valar: Haven't seen it, my friend has or is, of course :}
VardaValar1: Poor Gimli
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jetwest2000: i kept hiting enter instead of shift, cuz i dropped some cheese lol
Eonwe Valar: wb :}
VardaValar1: Ar-Pharazon, is there anything different about your AIM tonight?
VardaValar1: oops : )
ArPharazonV: no, not that I know of
Eonwe Valar: I finally got to watch my Legend of Crystania DVDs last night.
jetwest2000: some velveta with rotell, with SAGE sausege ; P
Eonwe Valar: mmm :}
VardaValar1: Were they good, Eonwe?
ArPharazonV: the earlier netsplit was due to my internet-connection
jetwest2000: ahh good so its not me
Eonwe Valar: They're based in the same world as Record of Lodoss War, but the artist was different.
VardaValar1: I could see it with our distance, but Gimli is in the same city.
ArPharazonV: well, my connection stops from time to time, so we might not have the same cause, Gimli
ArPharazonV: luckily it's like once every few days, at most, so it's not that bad
jetwest2000: ahh
Eonwe Valar: Ashram and Pirotess are prominent in them. Overall, it was worth my money. :}
jetwest2000: well its happend 3 times so far though : P
jetwest2000: hmm
jetwest2000: sounds good
VardaValar1: Good to hear!
Eonwe Valar: To clarify: Same world, different part :}
VardaValar1: I meant that good to Eonwe. : )
jetwest2000: ahhh, i just got finished with the 2 seasons of Ai Yori Aoshi
VardaValar1: Gesundheit
jetwest2000: and buying now the manga
Eonwe Valar: I don't want to spoil too much if you haven't seen Record of Lodoss War yet. It's not connected, but it's sort of a lead-in.
Eonwe Valar: Haven't seen it, looked at the manga. Didn't seem like my thing.
jetwest2000: ahh, maybe i can watch it on youtube.com : )
jetwest2000: i liked it, quite funny and romantic, and my fiance likes it
jetwest2000: uh oh i think another netsplit
jetwest2000: or
jetwest2000: not
Eonwe Valar: Have you seen Jubei-chan?
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Eonwe Valar: No "real" romance, but mostly light-hearted and amusing.
VardaValar1: Netsplit is hard on a conversation. : )
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jetwest2000: im still new in the anime community, finding out loads of new anime, and willing to try lots of them : D
VardaValar1: Sure feels like bnet again, except just a few affected at a time.
Eonwe Valar: And by "real" romance, I mean the girl isn't really out there looking for a relationship, not that there aren't guys who like her.
jetwest2000: hehe, there is one that i kinda liked but i thought it was really sad
jetwest2000: if i can remember right, KGNE
Eonwe Valar: KGNE?
jetwest2000: i think its it, somewhere around those 4 letters
Eonwe Valar: Describe?
jetwest2000: its only like 13 episodes
jetwest2000: and its basicly fall in love with this girl, girl ends up in coma from an accident
jetwest2000: and depressed for 3 years
Eonwe Valar: 13 episodes= 1 season in Japan :}
jetwest2000: cuz of it
jetwest2000: yep
Eonwe Valar: Many animes are about that long.
jetwest2000: it was really good, but it was really sad, i almost cried at the ending
Eonwe Valar: Doesn't sound familiar.
jetwest2000: and seeing i dont cry that much : P
VardaValar1: Yep. Big tough guy. : )
jetwest2000: i watch most of anime when i can on youtube.com
jetwest2000: to find out what it is like
jetwest2000: then if i like it, ill buy it
jetwest2000: so right no im on DearS
jetwest2000: now*
jetwest2000: its really good so far
Eonwe Valar: I'm not really into romance anime.
jetwest2000: well, its kinda like romance, but more comedy this time
jetwest2000: i like all anime, can get wrong with naruto hehe
jetwest2000: except im tired of the fillers
Eonwe Valar: I shy away from some anime :}
jetwest2000: but i like G gundam as well
Eonwe Valar: The Gundam series is pretty good for the most part.
Eonwe Valar: Gundam Wing seems to be mostly for girls though.
jetwest2000: yea
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Eonwe Valar: Kind of a shame, because it is generally a good anime, but all the heroes are pretty boys.
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jetwest2000: another classic anime im trying to find is Ronnin Warriors
Eonwe Valar: Actually, now that I think of it, all the guys in the anime are pretty boys :}
jetwest2000: haha yea i see that too
Eonwe Valar: My friend says Inuyasha is DBZ for girls :}
jetwest2000: its ok, i found a cool website, which i dont know what its called at the moment, but it rates animes from pass, rent, buy - ratings
jetwest2000: and basicly Inuyasha is a Rent for me
VardaValar1: The Orientals tend to be small and slight next to us, so it may translate over that way in Anime.
Eonwe Valar: I enjoy Inuyasha.
jetwest2000: so do i, but my fiance enjoys it more
ArPharazonV: like hobbits, Varda? ;-)
Eonwe Valar: It's not the absolute best anime, but it's enjoyable.
jetwest2000: hehe
Eonwe Valar: I would say that things in many animes tend to be larger than life :}
VardaValar1: slight, not tubby : )
jetwest2000: you know, they can hold their liquor hehe
jetwest2000: not as much as a dwarf though 8-)
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Eonwe Valar: Scryed is a good anime if you get the chance to watch it.
jetwest2000: have you heard of gantz
Eonwe Valar: I've heard about it, aye. I've heard it's quite,.. interesting, to put it mildly.
jetwest2000: yea its very very interesting
Eonwe Valar: I've heard examples of its interestingness.
jetwest2000: hehe
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VardaValar1: You worry me strangely : )
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jetwest2000: yes and it has some interesting chars, villians and heros alike
Eonwe Valar: Well, from my understanding, it'd be on the level of some of today's horror movies.
Eonwe Valar: as far as some of the graphically volent scenes go.
VardaValar1: The new gore-fest stuff, huh?
jetwest2000: well, i wouldnt say horror much
Eonwe Valar: some of the examples I've heard, aye.
jetwest2000: its more graphical, supernatural action
Eonwe Valar: The previews make it look intriguing.
Eonwe Valar: Haven't decided if I want to check it out.
jetwest2000: yea i have like 1 or 2 disks from the first season
jetwest2000: got it for cheep at a half price bootstore
Eonwe Valar: I hear Overstock.com is a good place to get a fair price on anime.
FladrifV: namarie all
ArPharazonV: namarie
jetwest2000: yea so is amazon, and if ya want to watch for free its YouTube.com
FladrifV: far too late already :D
jetwest2000: namarie
ArPharazonV: yeah, I need to be going too soon
jetwest2000: ok
jetwest2000: glad i was able to come
jetwest2000: my first time
Eonwe Valar: Take care :}
VardaValar1: You got here in time for After-meeting : )
VardaValar1: Glad you could make it : )
Eonwe Valar: Oh, if you want a good laugh because of bad dubbing, pick up Garzey's Wing :}
VardaValar1: Good night Fladrif
Eonwe Valar: If you want a quiality anime, skip Garzey's Wing :}
jetwest2000: hehe
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jetwest2000: you cant go wrong with fuly cooly haha
Eonwe Valar: FLCL is ok
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Eonwe Valar: Paranoia Agent was more interesting.
jetwest2000: hmmm i heard of that one, they produced Ai Yori Aoshi, saw the preview, thought it was intresting
Eonwe Valar: My sense of humor is picky :} I wasn't too keen on FLCL, but Bobobobo-bobobo was amusing :}
jetwest2000: OMG
jetwest2000: the name was enough to steer me away HAHA
Eonwe Valar: hehe
Eonwe Valar: It mocks some other animes.
Eonwe Valar: It's better subbed than dubbed.
jetwest2000: well most are hehe
jetwest2000: dunno why
jetwest2000: domo arigato
Eonwe Valar: Well, in part it may depend on which way you see it first.
jetwest2000: hehe im learning jap.
jetwest2000: so i dont have to worry of putting on the subbs ne more haha
Eonwe Valar: I generally prefer dub to sub, but I make exceptions for some anime.
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Eonwe Valar: Watch Genshinken.
jetwest2000: and since i watch anime alot, i practice it alot hehe
jetwest2000: is it good?
Eonwe Valar: It was to me :}
jetwest2000: ill add it to my list
ArPharazonV: ok, I'm going to bed, will be saving this
ArPharazonV: saved
jetwest2000: ok
Eonwe Valar: It's about the Society for Modern Visual Culture, if I remember the title correctly :}
jetwest2000: never heard of that one
Eonwe Valar: Anime fans should get a kick out of it :}
Star of Phaet: well, I'm off. Namarie, folks
jetwest2000: night
Eonwe Valar: Take care Phar :}
Eonwe Valar: Take care Gilraen :}
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jetwest2000: guess thats it for the night
VardaValar1: Good night, Gilraen
VardaValar1: Good night and thanks, Ar-Pharazon : )
Eonwe Valar: If you find yourself identifying with any of the characters in Genshinken a little too much, you might just be an otaku :}
jetwest2000: say huh
Eonwe Valar: Well, any except one :}
jetwest2000: otaku?
Eonwe Valar: otaku. It's a japanese term.
jetwest2000: well yea i knew that, but what does it mean
jetwest2000: im curious
Eonwe Valar: It generally describes someone who's really into something, but in America it's typically used for extreme anime fans.
jetwest2000: haha
Eonwe Valar: If you really know your anime, you might just be an otaku.
jetwest2000: i already know im a extreme anime fan, i love anime
ArPharazonV: I knew that term! been reading a webcomic called Megatokyo lately...
jetwest2000: well i know the ones that i have watched
jetwest2000: and read
Eonwe Valar: If you just watch Cartoon Network and think you know it all, you are not an otaku :}
jetwest2000: no i dont watch tv's much
Eonwe Valar: You really gotta have a passion for anime and its related products :}
Eonwe Valar: Watch Genshinken :}
jetwest2000: i buy the books, figureines, merchendise, when i have the money
ArPharazonV: ok, it's sent
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jetwest2000: and i definently dont watch the tv version, i get first rate episodes from the nearest anime shop i go to
Eonwe Valar: Are your walls covered with wall scrolls? :}
jetwest2000: i generally give those to my fiance, since im over there more often
jetwest2000: i like chobits as well H P
Eonwe Valar: Do you subscribe to any anime magazines? :}
Eonwe Valar: Chobits was interesting, the first few episodes that I saw.
jetwest2000: i want to, but its so expensive, ive been saving money up for newtype
jetwest2000: and anime manga magazine
jetwest2000: i even cosplayed at the last anime convintion
Eonwe Valar: cool :}
jetwest2000: inuyasha
jetwest2000: hehe
Eonwe Valar: hehe
ArPharazonV: well, Namarie
Eonwe Valar: Take care Phar :}
jetwest2000: night
Eonwe Valar: I've considered it, but it's hard to get a good costume together for a character I'd want to cosplay as.
jetwest2000: yea it is
Eonwe Valar: Oh, that reminds me: Samurai Champloo :}
jetwest2000: i didnt like that one much
Eonwe Valar: Better subbed :}
jetwest2000: i did like trigun
Eonwe Valar: The dub wasn't bad though.
jetwest2000: and kenshin
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jetwest2000: cowboy bebop is good as well
Eonwe Valar: You know, I recall Vash's voice being the voice of the second Black Ranger :}
jetwest2000: oh and i heard that they are bringing it back
jetwest2000: a second season
VardaValar1: Vash - Babylon 5 to me : )
jetwest2000: they are saying both of them survived
Eonwe Valar: Vash the Stampede: got a $$60 billion (that's 60 billion double-dollars) price on his head :}
jetwest2000: yep
jetwest2000: and really really really skilled with a gun
Eonwe Valar: His voice actor used to be Adam, the Black Ranger from the Thunder Zord days :}
Eonwe Valar: Nice to know there's life after Power Rangers, at least for some of them :}
jetwest2000: oh my
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jetwest2000: power rangers haha
Eonwe Valar: Aye :}
jetwest2000: well i guess im getting off now
VardaValar1: I used to watch them for a while too
VardaValar1: I am too, so good night all!
Eonwe Valar: Amy Jo Johnson (The original Pink Ranger) had some appearances and a movie or two after POwer Rangers.
jetwest2000: nite
Eonwe Valar: HF all, take care, good night :}
jetwest2000: cool
VardaValar1: Good to hear : )
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VardaValar1: Mara mesta : )
Eonwe Valar: Jason David Frank (The Green Ranger) ended up being a Power Ranger again :}
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