Valar Guild

October 31, 2004 Meeting

AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
5pm EST (no longer Daylight Savings Time)
Back to News
Transcript team: ArPharazon, Turgon, Varda
Before-meeting
    Letter to Tolkien Encyc showing some problems. Worked on and solved some.
    Hobbit: map confusion and solved it
Meeting Begins (formally anyway)
Membership News:
    Arathorn
    Embla-(TV) - reports on New Zealand's LotR filming sites
    Fladrif
    Luthien Tindomeral-V in TFT
Web News:
    Beren's Lore Book bad news
    Tolkien Encyclopedia:
       Articles:
          New section: Fellowship
          Ori
       Help locating bad links needed while Encyc is undergoing re-build, all articles and authors getting their own pages. Gilraen and Eonwe have been helping.
Gaming News:
    State of Valar Gaming Report text on News
    Azure Dreams. In After-meeting
    BroodWar: Orodreth. In After-meeting
    Gilraen's Role-playing game. New characters can now enter.
    Guild Wars Beta
    Interplay: included LotR games. In After-meeting
    Middle-earth Online Role-playing game on our Forum. Good spot now for Mirkwood Elf characters to join our party.
    WarCraft/The Frozen Throne: new map
Tolkien:
    In Before-meeting: Hobbit: Map confusion and solved it
    In Tolkien section: Gondolin's betrayal
After-meeting:
    Forum: number of pm's we can store
    Forum Middle-earth Online rp talk
    Computer talk 

Before-meeting:  
You have just entered room "Valar Guild Meetingplace."
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
Orodreth V has entered the room.
ArPharazonV has entered the room.
TurgonjustTurgon: already here :-)
Orodreth V: Aiya
TurgonjustTurgon: and afk
Eonwe Valar: heya all :}
Eonwe Valar: I always send invites to everyone just in case :}
ArPharazonV: Aiya
GilraenV has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: That should be everyone on my list
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: semi- afk now,.. programming :}
ArPharazonV: in game, will be right back
Arwen V1 has entered the room.
GwaihirValar has entered the room.
GilraenV: Aiya
GwaihirValar: hey
Eonwe Valar: heya :} So my invitation wasn't fancy enough for you? :}
Eonwe Valar: only gold frills, not mithril? too plain? :}
GwaihirValar: when compared to my beloved's invite... ;-)
GilraenV: It's 'cause I'm prettier ^.~
Eonwe Valar: well, ok :} I won't argue then :}
GilraenV: hehe
GwaihirValar: hehe
ArPharazonV: ok, back
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: wb :}
Orodreth V: I'm afk, trying to manage a dozen conversations and edit o*counts* 4 short stories, all at the same time.
ArPharazonV: so, what did you think of guildwars-weekend?
You have just entered room "Valar Guild Meetingplace."
VardaValar1: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: heya :}
ArPharazonV: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: Varda's name is dazzlingly bright today :}
Eonwe Valar: yellow :}
VardaValar1: Odd.
VardaValar1: Yours looks pine green
ArPharazonV: it's all about the order in which you came into the channel...
VardaValar1: Phar's looks gray
ArPharazonV: to yourself, you always look red
Eonwe Valar: Phar's is pink :}
ArPharazonV: oro is pink to me
VardaValar1: Happy Halloween and time change :-)
ArPharazonV: and gilraen would be grey to Eonwe
Eonwe Valar: Happy Daylight Savings time end day :}
GilraenV: VardaValar1:Eonwe Valar: ArPharazonV:Orodreth VGwaihirValar:
GilraenV: my colours. and happy hallowe'en
ArPharazonV: happy halloween...
ArPharazonV: even though we don't do halloween here
VardaValar1: I'm going to show you guys a letter just came in
VardaValar1: Have to do it in pieces
VardaValar1: hello i was looking at your website of toilkens encyclopedia where i was looking for facts on the nine ringwraiths[nazgul]much to my upset you have not got any facts on them although i may be looking for them in
VardaValar1: the wrong part i doubt that i am.if i am indeed looking for them in the wrong part please can you email me back with the way to go about looking for them.if they are indeed not in this website can you please email me back
VardaValar1: with this fact.i will be most grateful for speed in delivery of this mail as i need these facts for coursework of english lituture.yours sincerly
VardaValar1: I will leave off the name.
Eonwe Valar: cool, we get people doing literature research
Eonwe Valar: afk for a few
VardaValar1: k
GilraenV: do we really not have anything on nazgul?
ArPharazonV: the encyc is actually used for research... by outsiders... must be quite a boost to your morale, Varda :-)
VardaValar1: It's often used for research, not what I was pointing out
VardaValar1: I remember putting stuff in, but it's obviously not where it can be found easily
Arwen V1: Can you find it?
VardaValar1: I'll look harder now. Not good
VardaValar1: I've been rigging a way to search by letter to help locate
VardaValar1: not finished, though
VardaValar1: Funny, I did not find it a morale boost at all
VardaValar1: It says the Encyc is not the help it should be
VardaValar1: Worse, I remember an article on Khamul and another on the Witch-king, not locating them myself. heh
VardaValar1: There's the Witch-king
VardaValar1: Mankind
VardaValar1: Ringwraiths, etc
Arwen V1: I found them
VardaValar1: No link to them is the problem
VardaValar1: Will fix
VardaValar1: O good :-)
Arwen V1: mankind - king list, bottom, ringwraiths
ArPharazonV: perhaps we should have different sections that link to the article, instead of one section
Arwen V1: under the almost men section
VardaValar1: sure enough. Bad labeling
VardaValar1: Takes an Arwen to find it :-)
VardaValar1: I know you're extra smart :-)
Arwen V1: hehe
Arwen V1: thanks =)
Musics4Me2 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Farmer
Musics4Me2: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: leaving for asec,.. gotta switch lines
ArPharazonV: you were putting all the articles on seperate pages, right?
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
ArPharazonV: so, instead of having the sections themselves displaying the articles, they just link to them, right?
VardaValar1: aye
VardaValar1: should load faster, allow several types of navigation
ArPharazonV: that could allow for each article to have different sections link to it, if they don't exactly fall in one category...
ArPharazonV: and that could also allow for several more abstract categories, like 'forces of evil/mordor' or something for the nazgul, instead of just mankind
ArPharazonV: which would also give you better navigation and user-friendliness
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiyata
Eonwe Valar: hantalye
VardaValar1: Right Phar. That's the plan
ArPharazonV: in that case, problems like with these nazgul should soon be solved, right?
VardaValar1: I have way too many people talking at me in separate windows
VardaValar1: It is ok to talk in the chat room
VardaValar1: I will keep the threads separate, more or less :-)
Orodreth V: *gasp*
ArPharazonV: ok then
Orodreth V: Talk..in a chat room?!
Orodreth V: </mock horror>
VardaValar1: Please please : )
ArPharazonV: well, I can repeat here what I just told Varda
ArPharazonV: I just reread the hobbit last week
ArPharazonV: and studying both maps (thror's, and the one of Wilderland) I'm a lil confused about Dale, and the course of the river
ArPharazonV: they seem to contradict each other, and the hints in the book (about crossing the river and such) are not quite matching up either
ArPharazonV: now for several purposes, and curiosity, I'm trying to form a map in my head of the environment, but as such, it's proving a little difficult
VardaValar1: Try the Shire Post link, new one still on News
VardaValar1: for the Shire area
VardaValar1: Do you remember the contradictions?
ArPharazonV: yes, I know a few..
ArPharazonV: but for exact details, lemme fetch the book, it's nearby
ArPharazonV: ok, back
ArPharazonV: if we look at the map at the back of the book, about Wilderland, we see the river turning east very early, then south again after a distance, and running on quite straight to Esgaroth
ArPharazonV: this would fit with the statement that when Bilbo and the Dwarves exit the river, they branch off west from it, and thus come to the mountain, effectively taking a shortcut
ArPharazonV: however
ArPharazonV: if we look at Thror's map at the beginning of the book, it shows something different:
ArPharazonV: the river goes a little south, then east taking a circle around Dale, skirting the southwest spur, and continuing towards the southwest, to the long lake
ArPharazonV: this makes a lot more sense if you have the maps with you... should I provide a quick link for you?
ArPharazonV: anyway
ArPharazonV: there are other examples besides this obvious contradiction
ArPharazonV: for example, in the book it is said in one point, that the Elves and Men besieging the mountain move their camp from Dale, and east across the river, to get closer to the gate
ArPharazonV: with a little imagination, I can still understand this description, although literally taken they would not really get closer to the gate
ArPharazonV: however
ArPharazonV: when Dain arrives, he stops east from the river, and sends messengers across the river, towards the human/elven camp
ArPharazonV: of course, this doesn't fit with each other either
ArPharazonV: certainly not if you take both maps into account
TurgonjustTurgon: just a point of note there
ArPharazonV: after discussing this a bit with Fladrif when I saw him in the bus, he said he had noticed the same contradictions, and I wondered if any of you had noticed them as well, and come to a conclusion...
ArPharazonV: go ahead, Turg
TurgonjustTurgon: you sure it said that the Elf / Humand camp moved east of the river?
ArPharazonV: yes, they crossed the river, and put a new camp at the eastside
Musics4Me2 has left the room.
SirG3 II has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiyata
TurgonjustTurgon: well.... taken into account that the books handle from Thorin's map
TurgonjustTurgon: it COULD be possible that the messenger went accros the river twice...
ArPharazonV: 'That day the camp was moved to the east of the river, right between the arms of the Mountain.'
TurgonjustTurgon: maybe, because the loop around dale in the river might bring it to a point where it is hard to traverse the land east of that spot
ArPharazonV: hey, you could be right...
TurgonjustTurgon: thus, Dain, coming from the east and a little south, up to Dale, would stop south of those mountain arms and east of the river
TurgonjustTurgon: so, that would mean that the messenger had to cross the river to the west, into Dale, and then east again to the Elves
TurgonjustTurgon: this too, would be of great tactical value
TurgonjustTurgon: because the Dwarves now did not have to cross the river once, but twice
ArPharazonV: that would make sense... according to a later point in that conversation with the messengers, the dwarves were planning to go through that small passage between mountain and river
ArPharazonV: to get to the gate
TurgonjustTurgon: while the Elven and Human archers could take the advantage of that
TurgonjustTurgon: indeed
ArPharazonV: but the camp would be right in the way...
TurgonjustTurgon: that too
ArPharazonV: still, how would it explain Bilbo, with the Arkenstone, had to cross the river to get to that camp?
TurgonjustTurgon: and because the narrow passage would be very easy to defend from the new camp
TurgonjustTurgon: well, that might be because the gate itself is a doorway from which the river ushers
VardaValar1: Ok, improved navigation, emailed the guy. Back.
TurgonjustTurgon: and the path beside the river, would most likely lead directly into Dale
TurgonjustTurgon: thus on the west side of the river
ArPharazonV: ah yes, but I saw something about that too
ArPharazonV: when the party of 14 went to Ravenhill, which is on the southwest spur
ArPharazonV: they took that same crossing
ArPharazonV: that Bilbo took as well
ArPharazonV: although the road they took then, was on the left side of the stream
ArPharazonV: which is, assumedly, the east side
TurgonjustTurgon: which from south view would be correct
TurgonjustTurgon: and at the time they wer geoing to Ravenhill, their main camp was exactly where the Human / Elf camp would be later
ArPharazonV: they came from the north, you know
TurgonjustTurgon: too long of the Hobbit for me to remember that part clearly
VardaValar1: Reason we are allowed to use books during the chat. This is not a test ;-)
ArPharazonV: in that case, Bilbo came from the right side of the stream the second time, and took that crossing in the exact opposite direction...
ArPharazonV: which could fit, seeing as the company of 14 had walled up the gate and made a new exit
TurgonjustTurgon: my copy of the Hobbit is somewhere, I have no idea where tho
ArPharazonV: hmm... this could explain most of the hints and directions
ArPharazonV: except for one thing:
TurgonjustTurgon: you do know that altho Tolkien was very meticolous in his describing, he didn't always give detailed account of everything
ArPharazonV: the party, as I said, when they left the river to go to the mountain, took off in a northwestern direction, away from the river
ArPharazonV: which fits with the map of wilderland, but not at all with Thror's map
ArPharazonV: and as such, not with the other hints as well
ArPharazonV: this would mean he created the map of wilderland first, and thror's map only after they had reached the mountain... and he never took the time to correlate the two with each other
ArPharazonV: so he made the map of wilderland, and then wrote about the party going to the mountain from the river
ArPharazonV: after that, he drew out thror's map, and after that, he came up with the whole river/crossing/camps/dale-bit
ArPharazonV: I'm starting to think like Christopher in the Histories now...
ArPharazonV: taking all this into consideration, I can clearly see I have to follow the map of Thror, and not the one of Wilderland... and the only statement I cannot use is the one where they leave the river
TurgonjustTurgon: well, looking at the magnitude of Tolkien's writings, and even at the Hobbit he was very busy with creating his languages, I wouldn't blame him if he slipped an error or 2
ArPharazonV: well, I think this clears out any confusion the book gave me.. thanks
ArPharazonV: I'll pass the news to Fladrif
VardaValar1: It will also be in the transcript ;-)
ArPharazonV: yes, that too, of course :-)
VardaValar1: Gilraen, thanks for your help with the links
ArPharazonV: I think I'm all set now to draw out the chapters, so I can put them to good use in the war3 campaign :-)
ArPharazonV: that was the actual main reason of putting the chapters in maps in my head
VardaValar1: Phar, may we start the business meeting now? :-)
ArPharazonV: yes, go ahead
VardaValar1: Thanks ever so
ArPharazonV: my problem is dealt with

Meeting:
VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo
VardaValar1: Members Info
VardaValar1: Valar Standard Time is now an hour later
VardaValar1: since ESDT is now EST
VardaValar1: Arathorn seems more active again
sauronjag has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Lungorthin :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya
sauronjag: Hola :-)
TurgonjustTurgon: Aiya!
VardaValar1: No new members this week
sauronjag: (I can only stay about a minute! but I will keep it open and try to chat in awhile. happy halloween everyone)
VardaValar1: Embla-(TV) is still in New Zealand, emailing us reports of the filming sites for the LotR movie
VardaValar1: Thanks, Lungorthin
VardaValar1: Did you have any web reports, o White Demon?
VardaValar1: He handles our Book List and Review section, as well as DAoC
top

VardaValar1: Web News:
sauronjag: Nope. I've been looking into dark age again, but I'm not sure if I' mgoing to be able to actually do anything about it
VardaValar1: Okie dokie. Good luck with it
VardaValar1: Tolkien Encyclopedia:
sauronjag: I've been nonstop busy for a long time now and it's not slowing down :-) Namarie everyone
VardaValar1: Namarie, hard-working one. We know how it is
ArPharazonV: Namarie
VardaValar1: Tolkien Encyclopedia:
VardaValar1: new section: Fellowship
VardaValar1: Sub-categories in it, anyone can add to them. It will be mostly links to those, it looks like now.
VardaValar1: Some things did not fit in individual spots and this seemed like a nifty solution.
VardaValar1: New article: Ori
VardaValar1: Spawned during researching a longer article
VardaValar1: Any other Web news?
VardaValar1: Oh, and Gilraen has been helping locate bad links while I'm rebuilding the Encyc : )
top

VardaValar1: Gaming News:
VardaValar1: Eonwe has some when he returns from afk
VardaValar1: Arathorn sent a letter on Guild Wars:
VardaValar1: Grimbold and I are going to try out the 'Guild Wars' beta this weekend since my internet is back. I'm just wondering who else is going to?
VardaValar1: I know Ar-pharazon brought it up a few times from the meeting transcripts I read, so I imagine he will, but who else is interested?
VardaValar1: That was the copy/paste from Arathorn.
TurgonjustTurgon: have already been playing with Grimbold and Arathorn
VardaValar1: Thanks, Turgon. How was it?
GwaihirValar: I believe that was this weekend... how long is it lasting?
TurgonjustTurgon: until 12 tonight as far as I know
ArPharazonV: yes, today is the last day
VardaValar1: World preview goes until tonight, aye
GwaihirValar: what style game is it? I haven't looked much...
TurgonjustTurgon: I'll try to keep the report short
VardaValar1: Fire when ready : )
TurgonjustTurgon: it's an RPG, MMO
TurgonjustTurgon: the graphics are absolutely fabolous
TurgonjustTurgon: fabulous even
TurgonjustTurgon: gameplay is nice as well, it has every aspect a MMO should have
TurgonjustTurgon: friends list, private messages, party messages, Guilds
GwaihirValar: *sighs* another MMO... is nobody making any good games anymore...
VardaValar1: We will have Gwaihir make us a good game!
ArPharazonV: I played for some time as well, although pc-crashes often got in the way, and I was away a lot... I never even completed the second 'main quest' :-D
GwaihirValar: I'm nowhere near THAT point yet I'm afraid ;-)
TurgonjustTurgon: there is even an option to travel from and to the most important places
TurgonjustTurgon: well, it deviates from MMO's in certain areas
VardaValar1: So it has a stress problem? Maybe repairable with more servers?
TurgonjustTurgon: for example, there are quests and staging areas therefore and at the end of each quest is a marvelous cinematic
ArPharazonV: no, problems are from my pc I think
TurgonjustTurgon: I have experienced very little to no lag
VardaValar1: ouch, Phar
ArPharazonV: they also happen sometimes with War3 and Dungeon Siege...
TurgonjustTurgon: this is probably because of the way staging areas and towns are divided up, so not too many people will be in the same spot
TurgonjustTurgon: although a good effort, and certainly nice for the laggishness, I think this is one of the downsides
TurgonjustTurgon: it is hampering with players looking for equipment or crafters
TurgonjustTurgon: one of the other downsides, and a big one to me, that once a player uses the instant travel system, that player automatically leaves the group he is in
TurgonjustTurgon: so, if a player would want to go to a town and learn new spells or buy new things, he'd have to find a new group again
FallenGlory has entered the room.
Shaggyjoe has entered the room.
Shaggyjoe: heya
FallenGlory: Hey
VardaValar1: Aiya : )
TurgonjustTurgon: all in all, I think this is a great game, and worth its while
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: Let our new guys know the game name?
TurgonjustTurgon: oh yes, one final thing
TurgonjustTurgon: the looting system is the worst thing of all
TurgonjustTurgon: any dropped loot is reserved for the player who gives the finishing blow
ArPharazonV: really? I was under the impression they were reserved randomly
GwaihirValar: I can't see that as being THAT bad...
VardaValar1: Kill stealers will be Killed on Sight : )
TurgonjustTurgon: nope, that's a pluspoint
GwaihirValar: I mean it negates about as much abuse as it implements
TurgonjustTurgon: areas with creeps in them are ALL divided
TurgonjustTurgon: each group has a different one
VardaValar1: Turgon, when you are done, Gilraen is next
ArPharazonV: yup, and gold is shared amongst the party
VardaValar1: Then Eonwe
TurgonjustTurgon: anyways, weighing the good against the bad, I'd say it breaks even
GwaihirValar: I don't know how much of a problem MMOs have with invisibility/hiding... BUT I know in some other games it's easy to hide and wait for items to drop and then take them before other people can get them....
TurgonjustTurgon: well, in the payable MMO's (DaoC at least) loot is reserved for the party that makes the kill
TurgonjustTurgon: anyways, I'm finished on Guild Wars, I'd like to give the gavel to Gilraen :-)
VardaValar1: Gilraen, please go ahead.
TurgonjustTurgon: she seems afk at the moment
TurgonjustTurgon: maybe Gwai can kiss her from her beauty sleep ;-)
GwaihirValar: lol
VardaValar1: Gilraen is pulled away to do a chore for her mother right now
VardaValar1: Eonwe, your turn : )
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}
Eonwe Valar: First, I'd like to say I finished getting together the gaming information and putting together the State of Valar Gaming Report
Eonwe Valar: It should be on the News page very soon
Eonwe Valar: Some numbers I'd like to point to is that only about 1/3 of our Guild even responded to the letter
SirG3 II: ouch
Eonwe Valar: Hopefully if you're here, you were among those who did respond. A quick look over the roll tells me at least most of you did.
TurgonjustTurgon: yikes...
ArPharazonV: that ain't much
Eonwe Valar: If you didn't, get the info in for the Games Page. It won't affect the report at this point, but it'll help us know where you game, and hopefully help you find someone to game with.
Eonwe Valar: Some pages won't have player listings on the Updated Games page
TurgonjustTurgon: in case Luthien and / or Paladin Took didn't send theirs, I have met and played with them in TFT
ArPharazonV: yeah, same here... we encountered them yesterday
Eonwe Valar: D1, Neverwinter Nights, Warcraft 2
GwaihirValar: ahh, Luthy's been on again... good to hear.
Eonwe Valar: and E-mail to the Games Page counts as a contact with the Guild, btw
TurgonjustTurgon: she goes under the nick of Tindomerel-V if you happen to come across her
VardaValar1: The State of Valar Gaming Report is now on the News page under Oct. 29
Eonwe Valar: Thanks Turgon
Eonwe Valar: THanks Varda
VardaValar1: My pleasure
Eonwe Valar: If you see members around in games, encourage them to e-mail their info to the Games Page if they haven't, with a CC to Varda just in case.
Eonwe Valar: Second, I have some WC3 branch news.
Eonwe Valar: I've removed from the branch accounts that are near or over 300 days since last login
Eonwe Valar: these accounts are more than dead by Blizzard's standard.
VardaValar1: That include WarCraft 3 and The Frozen Thorne both
VardaValar1: Throne
Eonwe Valar: aye, ROC and TFT both
Eonwe Valar: If you find your account was among those deleted, you need to get in contact with me or one of the Shamen to get the tag on a new guild account.
Eonwe Valar: if it wasn't deleted and you find your account is dead, let me know so it can be removed, then make a new account and get one of us to tag it.
Eonwe Valar: If your account is more than 90 days since last login, you may find it dead when you try to next log in.
Orodreth V: Still trying to work on going somewhere just to keep my account active..
Eonwe Valar: 3rd : New WC3 map for halloween. Haven't tried it yet.
ArPharazonV: me neither.. tried downloading it once, but failed
Eonwe Valar: One more note on 2 : we have 24 members in the WC3 branch after the account deletions. about half of those are under the 28 days, so we're ok for now
GwaihirValar: good!
Eonwe Valar: That'll do it for my news. Back to you Varda.
VardaValar1: Gilraen is next, still on Gaming News
DaeTPringl has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Eowyn : )
DaeTPringl: Hail, I am Eowyn. Though my name is spelled completely wrong at the moment. ;-)
GilraenV: I'm advertising a forum-based rpg (a la the one on the guild message board) by the name of the Empire of Arine ( http://www.atalantei.com is the easiest address to give )
GilraenV: (and Gwaihir will be wincing after reading that as he's heard far too much about it recently)
VardaValar1: hehe
GilraenV: It's run by myself and a friend, and on friday we moved to the new location, so basically starting up again 2 years after the last story left off. It's set in a world simailar to mediaeval Earth, but it has magick
GilraenV: and a rather matriarchal society, courtesy of it's creators being female ;-)
TurgonjustTurgon: not too much like Wheel of Time, I hope?
GilraenV: Wheel of Time?
Eonwe Valar: Turgon read my mind,.. :}
GwaihirValar: I think that answers your questions...
GwaihirValar: :-)
VardaValar1: I had that thought too
TurgonjustTurgon: well, Wheel of time is centered around inadequacy of men, to put it lightly
Eonwe Valar: aye, putting it quite lightly, Turgon :}
VardaValar1: Our guild is mostly guys, so that kind of stinks
SirG3 II: nah
SirG3 II: :P
VardaValar1: :-)
GwaihirValar: umm... It's more likely to be based off of Exiles in that regard than WoT... because I believe she hasn't read WoT, but I know she has read Exiles :-)
TurgonjustTurgon: I haven't
Eonwe Valar: So how similar is Exiles to WoT ? give us non-Exiles-but WoT-readers a little idea :}
GwaihirValar: I've never read WoT, couldn't get past page 15.
TurgonjustTurgon: but if its a matriarchal society without the WoT thingy about men, it's cool
GwaihirValar: however, I'm not sure it was based off either ;-)
GwaihirValar: anyways, afk for a short while
SirG3 II: darn, there goes reality sucking him in again :P
Orodreth V: Reality! Pssh! who needs that?
GilraenV: the majority of deities and rulers are female.
VardaValar1: This is one reality, right here ;-)
Eonwe Valar: anyway, gl with the RP GIlraen :}
Orodreth V: I
GilraenV: but no man-hating. well, one of the characters hates men. but the society in general doesn't
Orodreth V: I'm in the middle of GMing my own and joing another major RP, so I'll look into it but I dunno if I can dedicate time to three major RPs.
GilraenV: so... *shrug* if anyone's interested, wander along and have a gander, please.
TurgonjustTurgon: I'll check it out when I have the time, bookmarked for now
VardaValar1: Orodreth, next you'll have to jump into the Middle-earth one on the Valar forum ;-)
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VardaValar1: And Gilraen, you mentioned new folk could join in now?
GilraenV: indeed... we're just starting up again after moving boards
ArPharazonV: yes, I'm kinda stuck at that one... can't decide whether to continue my sidequest in letter-form, or in normal form... I'm not sure about what I want to give away
GilraenV: so ther aren't any major plots going on yet. of course, new characters are always welcome
VardaValar1: Thank you, O brave rp creator : )
VardaValar1: Speaking of rp's, the guild rp in our Forum is in a spot where other folk can join in from Mirkwood.
VardaValar1: We need five warriors to join us there
VardaValar1: Any gender, Gilraen : )
ArPharazonV: anybody who wants to play my younger brother is welcome as well!
ArPharazonV: he's a key part in my sidequest, and we could have him join us
VardaValar1: I could use a brother too : )
SirG3 II: I could give you mine :P
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: I'd love to drag in Merry or Sam, but would be very tickled to take any of you
VardaValar1: Not a bad apple here
VardaValar1: I could have a sister if the brother is a problem : )
VardaValar1: Turgon has some TFT news
VardaValar1: Go ahead, Turgon. And he has a web url too
TurgonjustTurgon: ok, as usual, through Pharazon, I got a new map for TFT
TurgonjustTurgon: the Weakest Link, LotR style
TurgonjustTurgon: after playing a couple times, it became evident it had some errors in answers and questions
TurgonjustTurgon: so after what seemed to me as a lot of fiddling, I managed to purge the errors from the question "database"
TurgonjustTurgon: I also removed some of the bad language that was intended for people who left before the game was finished
VardaValar1: (It was in there without Turgon putting it there)
TurgonjustTurgon: I have not yet found a way to allow multiple answers to a question, but am working on that
ArPharazonV: heh... I just hope you didn't change too much... some questions were actually correct which you thought weren't
VardaValar1: Please PM me any Tolkien topics
TurgonjustTurgon: also, after testing the new one, Paladin and Luthien, gave me some pointers on some of the questions
TurgonjustTurgon: and no, didn't change anything that I was not sure of being wrong
TurgonjustTurgon: and that's it for the map
TurgonjustTurgon: As for the link
TurgonjustTurgon: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/
TurgonjustTurgon: it's an encyclopedia site
TurgonjustTurgon: much like ours, and just as complete as ours
ArPharazonV: looks... very... familiar
TurgonjustTurgon: which means, a lot of articles, no where near to completion :-)
ArPharazonV: you sure it wasn't in the database yet?
VardaValar1: That should be in the Encyc
VardaValar1: Encyclopedia of Arda
VardaValar1: Will check
Orodreth V: The Encyclopedia of Arda is great for alternate names and meanings.
VardaValar1: It is there under "Encyclopedias"
GwaihirValar: btw, the part of reality that was sucking me in was food... so I can forgive it ;-)
SirG3 II: ah
VardaValar1: Food is a good reality : )
DaeTPringl: mmm food
SirG3 II: I bring the food back to my reality
ArPharazonV: what do eagles eat, anyway?
VardaValar1: Good plan, farmer
GwaihirValar: that's what I did...
GwaihirValar: but it still took time to finish prepping ;-)
TurgonjustTurgon: hmmm... still can't find it
DaeTPringl: other eagles? j/k
VardaValar1: Snakes, birds, fish, what they can catch
ArPharazonV: yummy, Gwaihir
GwaihirValar: yes, the rare and elusive breaded chicken ;-)
SirG3 II: yay
VardaValar1: Look under Tolkien, Encyclopedias
VardaValar1: Not alphabetical
VardaValar1: Dark Side of Tolkien is out of place, needs moved. Will do
VardaValar1: no, it is not out of place
VardaValar1: Can you see it now?
TurgonjustTurgon: weird.... there doesn't seem to be a link OR a section called Encyclopedias under Tolkien where I am browsing....
ArPharazonV: I just found it under 'more links'
VardaValar1: Our Links section is under More Links on the index
VardaValar1: The index is to Valar pages
VardaValar1: More links is to non-Valar pages
VardaValar1: Bilbo-(V) says hi, just came in : )
TurgonjustTurgon: well, I just can't find it
ArPharazonV: http://valarguild.org/varda/links/links.html#T olkienEncycs
TurgonjustTurgon: on another note, Beren's Lorebook is down, his geocities site has gone untended for too long and has gone into inactivity
ArPharazonV: the ninth one
ArPharazonV: yes, I noticed that this week, I wanted to use it.. don't know what for, but I wanted to use it
ArPharazonV: and it was gone...
GwaihirValar: hmm... for a while he had a link to a new site there, I think
GwaihirValar: maybe he moved it
TurgonjustTurgon: nope, checked both
TurgonjustTurgon: both inactive
VardaValar1: Checked. Both links to Lore Book are down
TurgonjustTurgon: and, yes, I found it
VardaValar1: He is active on the Forum. We can ask him there
TurgonjustTurgon: no wonder I couldn't find it before, I am used to using the main page, not the main "main" page
ArPharazonV: I found it using the main page, not the main 'main' page... if we're talking about the same thing... but still, each his own ways of tracking sections
VardaValar1: The splash page and the index page both have the Links link, so np
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ArPharazonV: Aiya
TurgonjustTurgon: yes, but not used to that page, was just checking on the splash page or the other one if not the one meant :-)
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VardaValar1: Aiya Gil-galad : )
HearNoEvil80: Aiya...sorry I missed the meeting....too many emergencies going on *sigh* running around ragged heh
ArPharazonV: I just found it on both pages... but no problem
TurgonjustTurgon: oh well, good has come from an already known link tho :-)
VardaValar1: The splash page is the short one, http://valarguild.org
TurgonjustTurgon: the other one then :-)
VardaValar1: Know that feeling, Hear : )
ArPharazonV: ah, I found it first on the 'other' page
TurgonjustTurgon: anyways, I think this about concludes our little linkage stuff :-)
ArPharazonV: big headline at the bottom 'more links'
ArPharazonV: well, ok
ArPharazonV: new topic!
VardaValar1: Pardon, many windows were open
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TurgonjustTurgon: Tolkien!
VardaValar1: Turgon, you have a topic?
TurgonjustTurgon: uh... nope...
ArPharazonV: well, Dale has been handled in the premeeting... so I don't have one either
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiyata
TurgonjustTurgon: well, maybe one....
VardaValar1: Welcome back
VardaValar1: What one, Turgon?
TurgonjustTurgon: the fate of Hurin and Huor coming to Gondolin
VardaValar1: What about them?
Eonwe Valar: thanks,.. seems I hit the close button rather than the minimize button
VardaValar1: oopsie : )
ArPharazonV: well, there goes that transcript ;-)
VardaValar1: I still have mine
TurgonjustTurgon: well, too long since I read that part, but for what I can remember, it seems as if their fates and their families were sealed after coming to and departing Gondolin
VardaValar1: And what question do we address?
TurgonjustTurgon: whether or not that was the case
VardaValar1: Could you state the question in one line?
VardaValar1: I'm getting lost : )
TurgonjustTurgon: excuse me if I am a bit sketchy, but usually when I have a topic, I have a couple things in my mind already I want to address, and this one was straight from my thoughts :-)
TurgonjustTurgon: ok, here comes:
VardaValar1: np
TurgonjustTurgon: Huor and Hurin were lost in the wilds after some battle (I think) and they were picked up by the Eagles and brought to Gondolin
TurgonjustTurgon: when they returned, they wore the garments of princes
TurgonjustTurgon: and even though they already were lords among their people, it seems as if their coming to Gondolin sealed their and their families fates
TurgonjustTurgon: Hurin as Morgoth's most hated enemy and the doom that befell Turin
VardaValar1: The clothes did give away the existence of Gondolin, good point
ArPharazonV: well, from what I know, Hurin also revealed the location of Gondolin to Morgoth... or at least the general area
VardaValar1: People wondered why they were in such great shape after being lost in the wilderness
TurgonjustTurgon: and Huor for his son Tuor, chosen by Ulmo to bring to Turgon his message of Doom
VardaValar1: Aye, Hurin did call out to the people of Gondolin, giving away the general area
VardaValar1: Took Maelin to make it specific
TurgonjustTurgon: aye
VardaValar1: Maeglin
ArPharazonV: being descendants from Hador, they already were heirs to the house of Men, and leadership of Hithlum...
TurgonjustTurgon: but as far as I know, Hurin was not hated by Morgoth until the Nirnaeth
VardaValar1: *looks around for all those dropped letters*
VardaValar1: That's when he foiled Morgoth, aye
TurgonjustTurgon: true, Pharazon, but that's why I bring this up
VardaValar1: Kept him from taking Turgon
TurgonjustTurgon: it seems as if their fates didn't begin to unfold after their visit to Gondolin
ArPharazonV: I hardly think that they would have given any less resistance to Morgoth had they not visited Gondolin...
TurgonjustTurgon: probably not, but that is not the point
TurgonjustTurgon: the point is their fates, not their resilience
ArPharazonV: but their fates did rely on their resilience...
TurgonjustTurgon: only partly
ArPharazonV: their defiance and resistance of Morgoth made them his enemies, regardless of their knowledge
TurgonjustTurgon: but would Tuor have come to Nevrast seeking for signs of Turgon and thus find the hauberk left by Turgon on Ulmo's council if it hadn't been for Huors visit?
ArPharazonV: I think that fate had been decided already, and it was not like Tuor was guided by his father
TurgonjustTurgon: would Morgoth have noticed the family of Hurin any more than he would have of say, the people of Brethil if Hurin didn't have knowledge of Gondolin
ArPharazonV: how did Morgoth know Hurin had knowledge of Gondolin anyway?
TurgonjustTurgon: spies
TurgonjustTurgon: and a good mind aside from that
TurgonjustTurgon: he was Vala after all
ArPharazonV: in that case, it could well be that Morgoth only chose Hurin because he knew he knew the location of Gondolin
ArPharazonV: and no, that's not a typo.. I said he knew twice
TurgonjustTurgon: I get the drift :-)
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After-meeting:
VardaValar1: (I sent Beren a PM in the Forum about the Lore Book)
ArPharazonV: oh, btw, Varda...
ArPharazonV: how many PM can you have in storage?
TurgonjustTurgon: dunno, I got over 40 there
VardaValar1: Don't know. Turgon or Eonwe, do you know?
ArPharazonV: oh, good... I had 8, and was worried if I could still receive any
VardaValar1: I currently have 40
TurgonjustTurgon: I can check the proboards main page for exact numbers if you like
VardaValar1: That would be helpful
ArPharazonV: seeing as the War3 forum and WoW forum have a maximum storage of 5, I was worried about reaching the maximum...
TurgonjustTurgon: 46 messages at this point
GwaihirValar: I think the one other forum I'm a member of has a peak of 50(but I could be wrong)
ArPharazonV: but if you guys have 40+, I won't have to worry for a long time... that's a relief
VardaValar1: To PM someone, you can click on his name and it takes you to his profile, and that gives a spot at the bottom to PM from
VardaValar1: If he has no posts, you can go to the Members page and do the same thing by clicking his name. Even if he does have posts. ;-)
Eonwe Valar: I've got over 100 PMs so I wouldn't worry too much :}
TurgonjustTurgon: well, it could very well be that admins have a higher number of max PM's, but not sure on that, and I would doubt it
VardaValar1: yay!
VardaValar1: I delete some of mine now and then
ArPharazonV: if you could check out the exact number for regular members, I would be very happy
VardaValar1: If you can check, Turgon, that would help us
Eonwe Valar: I don't think there's a way to do it through the board
VardaValar1: I don't see a place t o check on the board, but maybe the site for making boards
GwaihirValar: I don't know that admins WOULD have a max...
VardaValar1: I think we ended our previous Tolkien discussion :-)
GwaihirValar: I mean on the more active boards the admins get as many pms as Varda gets e-mails ;-)
VardaValar1: *gasp*
VardaValar1: I already use three accounts to handle emails : )
SirG3 II: heh
VardaValar1: and check all three just about daily
SirG3 II: I hate email
VardaValar1: Gmail is good about putting the spam out of the main mail. Very nice
ArPharazonV: sorry to bring it up, we could resume the Tolkien topic afterwards
VardaValar1: A new one from LotR would be good : )
VardaValar1: Everyone has read it or they would not be in the guild
ArPharazonV: or the hobbit? you know, the one I reread most recently? ;-)
VardaValar1: That would be good too : )
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ArPharazonV: oh, right.. concerning the hobbit (pun not intended).. I have a question about Mirkwood
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SirG3 II: Sorry to intrude, but this was funny: AMAZING BUT TRUE ... If all the salmon caught in Canada in one year were laid end to end across the Sahara Desert, the smell would be absolutely awful.
Eonwe Valar: OK, write a one-page dissertation on the nature of the Palantiri. Oh wait, that sounds likea homework assignment,.. ;}
VardaValar1: They would dry out : )
VardaValar1: Just one page?
ArPharazonV: well, here it goes, anyways...
Eonwe Valar: 10 page? 100 page? :}
ArPharazonV: I was wondering about Thranduil's halls
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ArPharazonV: where exactly are they located? what direction is the gate heading into?
ArPharazonV: if they, like I seem to interpret from the hobbit, are lying eastwards, I think I made my posts in the RP wrong...
VardaValar1: I've just been handed a bucket of links to work on
TurgonjustTurgon: ok, just posted a request for the number on the proboards site, should have an answer soon
Eonwe Valar: there may have been multiple gates, as would be typical of a castle
VardaValar1: They should have had the info available. Maybe they will after the request. Thanks for your trouble, Turgon
ArPharazonV: no, I think there were only 2 gates in the halls, at least at the time of the hobbit
ArPharazonV: 1 was the main gate
ArPharazonV: the other was the barrelgate
ArPharazonV: both lay to the east...
ArPharazonV: I think, after reading that chapter
VardaValar1: A giant gate often has a small gate next to it, for minor errands. But saw none mentioned in Tolkien
ArPharazonV: yes, it is stated in the hobbit that the only exit besides the main gate was the water-gate...
ArPharazonV: and believe me, poor old bilbo had plenty of time to check it all out :-)
Eonwe Valar: What does Tolkien know about Mirkwood's gate? :}
ArPharazonV: still, I think after this, that the gate used in the RP lay to the east, which could work less easily with my posts...
VardaValar1: Just sort of squinch your map around on the table...
ArPharazonV: lol... perhaps it can still work
Eonwe Valar: the main gate appears to be facing west
Eonwe Valar: since we're coming from the west, we're ok
ArPharazonV: I thought it was facing east...
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Eonwe Valar: I'm using Atlas of Middle-Earth
VardaValar1: Don't think when you can look it up :-)
VardaValar1: Those books are not always accurate, beware
ArPharazonV: looking it up now, in barrels out of bound
ArPharazonV: *bond
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Eonwe Valar: Since we're on the Forest Path, and that leads to Thranduil's halls, it's likely that will lead to the main gate
ArPharazonV: wait a sec...
ArPharazonV: perhaps I'm confusing the main gate with the main mouth...
Eonwe Valar: but it's a Revised Edition,.. It's gotta be perfect :}
ArPharazonV: lol
ArPharazonV: but anyway, if I look at the map, the halls seem to be on the eastside of the mountainrange
ArPharazonV: but... if you guys are convinced the gates are on the westside, I'm happy...
ArPharazonV: problem solved for the rp
VardaValar1: I haven't looked it up. Repairing the buckets of links folks are telling me about : )
ArPharazonV: now I still have to come up with a new post for the rp... I can't really decide how to continue my little quest... but I think it's about time
VardaValar1: Heard about the latest anniversary edition coming out of LotR? It's supposed to have even more corrections from Chris, near perfect
ArPharazonV: did you, in the rp, actually get my letter yet?
ArPharazonV: hey, sounds cool
ArPharazonV: anniversary... 50 years, I would guess?
VardaValar1: I'll bet it will be hardback and expensive. Hope they have a cheap version
Eonwe Valar: Hmm guess I better get a new copy of the current Hardback version soon then
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Eonwe Valar: As for Calion's letter, I was problably going to recieve it in my next post
Eonwe Valar: still don
Eonwe Valar: 't know what Auros is going to do about it yet, though
ArPharazonV: I advice you to join me on my quest! It'll give you something to do while you're in town, and I won't be so lonely ;-)
ArPharazonV: *advise
Eonwe Valar: :}
ArPharazonV: if not, I'll try to finish it as quickly as possible.. I don't want to be left behind
ArPharazonV: shall I spill the details here? I'm tired of keeping it bottled up
VardaValar1: You could put it in the rp?
ArPharazonV: yeah, allright...
Eonwe Valar: If Auros has to go chasing you down, he's not going to be pleased :}
VardaValar1: We are trying to do something in town
VardaValar1: We are trying to report to Thranduil, collect more warriors, and head for Erebor
ArPharazonV: I'll go on my mission alone, then... and lose the letter-style
ArPharazonV: but I'm afraid that post will have to come tomorrow... I'm going to bed now
VardaValar1: You need to stick with the group when possible
VardaValar1: Sleep is good :-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: Try to stay with us
TurgonjustTurgon: now is it Varda?
VardaValar1: in the rp
VardaValar1: Irmo is a nice guy, yes : )
TurgonjustTurgon: sleep is a big waste of time in my eyes
ArPharazonV: I cannot walk away from this... I initiated a new part for me, which has to be fulfilled.. I don't want to lose my brother :-)
VardaValar1: Irmo, don't listen!
TurgonjustTurgon: but then again, can be pleasant :-)
VardaValar1: Phar, does not have to be long
VardaValar1: Can catch up with us again
ArPharazonV: yes, allright... and you can 'fill me in' when I catch up... of course I'll continue reading your posts
VardaValar1: Your story arc needs to have to do with the main story
VardaValar1: Try to work it in
VardaValar1: Maybe your arc will find something Auros really must know
TurgonjustTurgon