Valar Guild

May 29, 2016 Sunday Meeting

5pm EST (UTC/GMT - 5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by
Ar-Pharazon and Varda.

Attending: (5)
    Arien-(Valar)/Arien V, Ar-Pharazon-(V)/arpharazonv, Eonwe Valar,  Elladan-(V), VardaValar1 (presiding)

Meeting begins
    Topic:  JRRT's own time in the service for his own country means for us readers that he really understood what he was talking about when writing of war.
    Tolkien continued: Topic 2: The Arkenstone and the Silmarils.
    Ar-Pharazon: more gaming news including flashgaming reviews.
    Arien with more gaming news.

arpharazonv: Aiya!
Eonwe Valar: Heya.
Eonwe Valar: Ok, so let's add a part 3 to all this, and see if it works next time:
Varda Valar: Aiya and grats :-)
arpharazonv: Aiya!
Eonwe Valar: And this third part makes no sense to me, but we'll see:
Eonwe Valar: The channel must be made *after* Phar is already in Trillian?
arpharazonv: That feels.. weird, indeed.
Eonwe Valar: If I make it before, the invite seems not to work.
Varda Valar: As in he can't be detected?
Eonwe Valar: If I don't invite from the buddy list, the invite doesn't work,..
Eonwe Valar: If I try to invite him while making the channel, it doesn't work.
Eonwe Valar: As in, Phar can't get the invite that I send him.
arpharazonv: I get the invite (I always get the invite) but the room won't open.
Eonwe Valar: Don't know if it works that way for anyone else, but these at least are the things I'm noticing with these attempts to get him in the last 3 weeks.
Eonwe Valar: Pardon, what Phar said.
Eonwe Valar: Anyway, I need to go.
Varda Valar: And if the invite is open but not working, the inviter needds to leave the chat room.
Varda Valar: Thank you for your invitation and analysis! Namarie :-)
Eonwe Valar: Take care and Have fun all.
arpharazonv: Namarie!
arpharazonv: And thanks!
Varda Valar: And you're in. :-)
Varda Valar: It's that time. Sending out invitations.
Varda Valar: Aiya Sunshine :-)
Arien V: Evening Varda :-)
Arien V: glad you made it back in time
Varda Valar: Still in Arizona but have a good, safe internet connection now instead of being on the road. :-)
Varda Valar: Thanks
arpharazonv: Yay for internets!
Varda Valar: Woot!
arpharazonv: Hmm, think I spotted Fladrif earlier, going to see if he's still online.
Varda Valar: Thank you
arpharazonv: And he's poked.
Varda Valar: Gwaihir and Elladan have been invited, Gorlim too.
Varda Valar: ^^
Varda Valar: Gorlim is raiding, the other two may be afk
Varda Valar: Should I wait a bit for Fladrif?
arpharazonv: Don't know if he'll join us.
Varda Valar: okie dokie
Varda Valar: He's welcome to come in whenever he's ready. :-)

Varda Valar: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
Varda Valar: Membership:
Varda Valar: Today a lot of folks in the USA are on the road or visiting for Memorial Day, a time to remember those who died in battle.
arpharazonv: What is it a remembrance of, exactly? I know it's been 100 years since the battle of Verdun in Europe.
Varda Valar: All of those who died for our country from any war.
arpharazonv: Yes, but why this date?
Varda Valar: Including those out there now.
arpharazonv: Any specific reason?
Varda Valar: Yes. Here, from Wikipedia to be concise:
Varda Valar: The holiday, which is observed every year on the last Monday of May, originated as Decoration Day after the American Civil War in 1868, when the Grand Army of the Republic, an organization of Union veterans founded inDecatur, Illinois, established it as a time for the nation to decorate the graves of the Union war dead with flowers. By the 20th century, competing Union and Confederate holiday traditions, celebrated on different days, had merged, and Memorial Day eventually extended to honor all Americans who died while in the military service
arpharazonv: Aha, Civil War.
Varda Valar: Source:
Varda Valar: Aye, that was the start of it.
Varda Valar: This is for those who died while serving.
Varda Valar: It changed to the wider meaning over time.
arpharazonv: Indeed. The same goes for ours on the fourth of May.
Varda Valar: Is that also called Memorial Day?
Varda Valar: Verdun Day?
arpharazonv: No, no, Verdun's anniversary is today I think, at least I saw it on the news. Might have been yesterday.
Varda Valar: Anyway, soldier's graves have been decorated since before Memorial day, but this gives one particular time for all at once.
arpharazonv: Our national memorial day is... well, a similar meaning to memorial day, I guess. It's about World War II.
arpharazonv: Originally.
Varda Valar: Any other membership news?
Varda Valar: Fangorn and I are at the house of Eowyn, Faramir-init, and our grandbaby.
Varda Valar: We plan to visit Fangorn's father Tuesday, a veteran of WW2, who started in Italy and went all the way across.
Varda Valar: Meanwhile, Sauron, Bilbo, and a friend are house-sitting, a formidable group. :-)
Varda Valar: for us, I mean.
arpharazonv: when the cat's away...
Varda Valar: the dancing girls come out. :-)

Varda Valar: Web:
Varda Valar: I have nothing for you this week on the Tolkien Site, but Eonwe has gaming news online for us, coming up next.
Varda Valar: Gaming:

ElladanV: Varda is back!
ElladanV: and aiya everyone
Varda Valar: Aiya Elladan :-)
Varda Valar: I'm on a laptop at Eowyn-V's house. :-)
ElladanV: I gotta log some time in game soon. Been studying nonstop
ElladanV: oh okay? Computer issues?
Varda Valar: Traveling. Fangorn and I are visiting her, her husband, and our grandbaby.
Varda Valar: Try not to fry your brain!
ElladanV: oh nice!
ElladanV: I fried my brain many years ago
arpharazonv: Aiya Elladan!
Arien V: Aiya Elladan :-)
ElladanV: Aiya!
Varda Valar: O well, in that case. *hands over catsup*
ElladanV: small meal right there
ElladanV: :P
Arien V: hehe
ElladanV: Hoe is het weer in Nederland vanavond?
ElladanV: :D
Arien V: i had chicken kievs filled with garlic buter and rice with it :-)

Varda Valar: We're in the gaming section right now. When you get to play, is it still mostly X-box?
arpharazonv: Het regent, Elladan ;)
ElladanV: no I honestly haven't been playing much at all of anything. LotRO is most of my gaming, which is almost nonexistent
Varda Valar: Studying comes first. :-)
ElladanV: Man I wish. I love the rain
ElladanV: hot and sunny here. And humid
ElladanV: Yes Varda, especially when I am not on a school schedule. Doing it on my own. Tough to stay disciplined
Varda Valar: You can have some of the flooding and lightning and power outages back home, heh. Spread it around. Sunny and warm in Arizona.
arpharazonv: It's been hot the last few days, in anticipation of the storm that.. pretty much passed us by just to the east.
arpharazonv: Which was good, because we had a barbecue at the style dance school yesterday :)
Varda Valar: Agreed. Self-discipline is the hardest kind.
Varda Valar: mmm barbecue
ElladanV: I'm gonna hate myself for it, but I'm probably gonna do hot dogs on the grill tonight
Varda Valar: Sounds delicious
arpharazonv: Indeed!
ElladanV: homemade meatballs last night. Was great.
Varda Valar: Back to Eonwe's gaming report  :-)   :

Varda Valar: WoW:
Varda Valar: The movie transmog items are available to the first character you log into on each faction.
Varda Valar: If you're interested in what's coming for PvP in Legion, you may want to check out the Dev Watercooler blog Gearing up for Legion PvP.
Varda Valar: See this week's hotfixes.

Varda Valar: (And a thank you to Eonwe for popping in here just before work to bring Phar into the chat!)

Varda Valar: StarCraft 2:
Varda Valar: There was a new patch this week, patch 3.3.1, and a balance update as well.

Varda Valar: Heroes of the Storm:
Varda Valar: There was a hotfix this week.
Varda Valar: Also coming is the 1-year anniversary of Heroes of the Storm. See what'll be going on to celebrate starting June 2nd.

Varda Valar: Overwatch:
Varda Valar: Overwatch has been released!.
Varda Valar: See the new digital comic "Destroyer".
Varda Valar: Another lore blog was put up. See it here.

Varda Valar: End of Eonwe's report.

Varda Valar: Anyone else with general news for gaming?
arpharazonv: Hmm, nothing extra, I think.
arpharazonv: WoW movie coming soon?

Varda Valar: LotRO; people are running their characters up to the new limit of 105, doing the new content and raids, and a whole lot are doing the new Instance of the Week for the best goodies.
Varda Valar: and of course the Bingo Boffin weekly episode questing.

Varda Valar: Any other news or suggestions of any sort?
Varda Valar: What you're planning for the Tolkien Site or a game review? :-)
Varda Valar: If not, on to

Varda Valar: Tolkien!
Varda Valar: Today being Memorial Day in the USA,
Varda Valar: it might be interesting to note JRRT's own time in the service for his own country
Varda Valar: It means for us readers that he really understood what he was talking about when writing of war.
arpharazonv: But with less Rings.
Varda Valar: I ran across this article from the BBC that touched on it interestingly, wanted to share it with you.
Varda Valar:
Varda Valar: Heh, not a lot of magic Rings in World War 1, far as we know.
Varda Valar: JRRT wasn't trying to write about the war, but it did educate him.
Varda Valar: He was already writing it before the war and continued writing it during the war.
Varda Valar: Then he sent more writing to Christopher to give him something to think about while he was in World War 2.
ElladanV: Pretty cool
Varda Valar: Comments welcome. :-)
arpharazonv: I do remember reading about the Ring as an equivalent as a nuclear bomb, but that was a bit too farfetched.
arpharazonv: *equivalent to
Varda Valar: One thing JRRT mentioned was that it was natural for readers to assume that events that happened in the lifetimes of both the author and reader had to be underlying the fiction. But it was not so, except to inform it generally.
arpharazonv: To get the details right.
Varda Valar: Aye, and the atmosphere.
Varda Valar: Some things - such as Sam's actions - were a tribute to the batmen that aided officers such as JRRT himself.
Varda Valar: He shows a lot of things other than war in a similar way. Women weren't supposed to fight, but some wanted to - Eowyn - and he portrays Eowyn in a good light.
Varda Valar: There was unreasoning prejudice from history with other people, that had to be conquered by meeting with individuals.  Gimli and Legolas.
arpharazonv: Peace through friendship.
Varda Valar: Peace through getting to know individuals and discovering their worth, aye.
Varda Valar: A ton of interactions slip under our radar as we hear of such fighters as Aragorn, Boromir, Faramir, and Beregond.
Varda Valar: These were people with flaws and heroism. They were people in extraordinaray circumstances rising to the occasion.
Varda Valar: One of the good bits that is a short mention is Aragorn's allowing those that could not face the Black Gate to hold another position, doing what they were able to, still being heroes.
arpharazonv: Rather than shaming them.
Varda Valar: He could understand, and knew how to work with them.
Varda Valar: Aye. He knew it was not necessary to shame them, but to put them where they were able to make a great contribution of their own.
Varda Valar: His and Denethor's leadership styles are contrasted. JRRT knew them both from real life in some measure.
arpharazonv: The difference between a commander and a leader? :)
Varda Valar: If Denethor had not had his confidence wrecked by Sauron with the Palantir, he would have done much better. But he would never have been an Aragorn.
Varda Valar: Aragorn, Denethor, and Faramir could see into the minds and hearts of men, but handled it differently.
Varda Valar: Did they do this by some magic? Probably not. They were probably excellent observers, using experience and education as well.
Varda Valar: But elves could see somewhat into other minds, at least some of them. We don't know how widespread that was.
Varda Valar: That would have made a difference in their styles.
Varda Valar: But it still would be influenced by the person. Feanor and Gil-galad and Elrond were very different types of leaders.
Varda Valar: What were some of those differences?
arpharazonv: Hmm...
arpharazonv: Feanor was less pleasant, and expected more of his men. Their loyalty to him was more important than any other considerations they might have had.
arpharazonv: Elrond was more passive, preferring to lead a sanctuary rather than an army.
arpharazonv: Not sure about Gil-galad, but I suppose he was a more militaristic version of Elrond?
Varda Valar: Gil-galad looked at the whole picture, trying to save the world, rather than self-involved as Feanor.
Varda Valar: Elrond was with Gil-galad in the war, fighting too. He was also with Celebrimbor, and forced to retreat. After that he made the safe area of Rivendell, protecting it with his Ring and his people.
Varda Valar: Elrond didn't have the massive resources that the other two had, but worked out his own system to save his people.
Varda Valar: I'm agreeing with you, Phar, adding to it.
arpharazonv: Right :)
Varda Valar: Anyway, here's hoping you all enjoy the BBC article, presented by the actor who played Gimli. :-)
Varda Valar: *checks out the gavels, curiously*
Varda Valar: *reaches for one and tries to catch it as it dances*
Varda Valar: *it jumps high and smacks down on the table's gavel-pad*
arpharazonv: Autonomous gavel?
Varda Valar: *all the pens, pencils and papers dance off with the gavel*
arpharazonv: How intriguing.
Varda Valar: That dancing Valie must have added her input!
arpharazonv: Might be of the same material as a certain sunday spoon.

Varda Valar: After-meeting!
Varda Valar: Now we know who had a hand in singing up that spoon!
Arien V: very nice sound :-)
Varda Valar: Nessa. :-)

Arien V: by the way there was  a very interesting or kind of interesting discussion on you tube with one of the guys who posted a version of Thorin's song there
Arien V: somebody confused the Arkenstone with a Silmaril and i couldn't help myself commenting that the Arkenstone is NOT
Arien V: a silmaril
Arien V: and explained the difference ..
Varda Valar: Thorin's bunch were some brave fighters, willing to come together when others sat it out.
arpharazonv: I'm pretty sure we considered that possibility as a topic here once.
Varda Valar: Yay Arien!
Arien V: they do have similar traits and similar effects i have to admit but defniitely not the same
Varda Valar: The Arkenstone is a strange thing. One wonders what is the heart of a mountain?
arpharazonv: I think the conclusion was that the only way it would've worked is if the Silmaril had collected a layer around itself which was carvable, and turned up inside the mountain after being lost in the fire.
Varda Valar: In all the time I've been in Valar, I've never seen any of us say that they thought the Arkenstone was a Silmaril. ;-)
arpharazonv: Well the possibility is very remote ;)
Varda Valar: It's interesting to try to figure out a way that it could be.
Varda Valar: A fun puzzle.
Varda Valar: But aye, insanely remote possibility.
Varda Valar: Just that they held it in their hands, when it was a hallowed gem, would be a stretch.
Varda Valar: There were three slimarils.
Varda Valar: *silmarils
Varda Valar: One is being worn by Earendil. Can't be that one.
arpharazonv: Hence the extra layer thing. And like I said, I believe one was lost in the fire, that might turn up elsewhere underground at some later time.
arpharazonv: Fate willing.
Arien V: this was my answer
Arien V: The Arkenstone , alas is not a Silmaril. The Arkenstone is a jewel of extraordinary beauty and value discovered by the dwarves of Ereber during the rule of Dain I, Thorin, Oakenshield's grandfather. The Silmaril, however, was the light of two trees of Valinor, Laurelin and Telperion, wrought by Feanor and stolen by Melkor after murdering his father Finwe. What follewed in the pursuit thereafter .. that story is told elsewhere. They have things in common though .. I have to admit, and John royals answer below is correct.
Read more
Arien V: stupid typos .. bah didnt see them before
Varda Valar: More interested in the content than the typos, no worries.
Arien V: good
arpharazonv: :)
Varda Valar: Think of poor Smaug lying on a silmaril. ouch!
arpharazonv: True, that.
Varda Valar: Silmarillion: "And thus it came to pass that the Silmarils found their long homes: one in the airs of heaven, and one in the fires of the world, and one in the deep waters."
arpharazonv: "long" being a relative term :P
Varda Valar: End of the world. Yep, next week, maybe. ;-)
arpharazonv: Who can tell? Morgoth might break back in at any moment :)
Varda Valar: Good thing the Valar Guild is here to kick him back out.
Arien V: oh well Sauron is still here *nods*#
[Another comment: Thranduil would have recognized a Silmaril.]

arpharazonv: Right, let's see, personal gaming!
Varda Valar: Solitaire!
arpharazonv: No, actually, I don't play much when it comes to card games :)
Varda Valar: j/k  :-)
arpharazonv: Unless it's Hearthstone.

arpharazonv: Flashgames.. for today I've got 3 of em. Let me see what website I'll take em from.
arpharazonv: box_master: is a platformer where you throw boxes and stop them to be able to cross levels.
arpharazonv: Can be difficult to time.
arpharazonv: whats-inside-the-box another game with a box! Puzzle levels to open up another layer until you discover what's in the box.
arpharazonv: boxes inside boxes :)
arpharazonv: They're all logic and pattern puzzles.
arpharazonv: robots-continue-work-sequence is the third game I'll give, a strategy game where you command robots to reach certain objectives as fast as possible.

arpharazonv: Hmm, blizzard games.
arpharazonv: Diablo 3: Not too much done there. Tried a greater rift at Torment II, only had 6 seconds left. Might be unlucky, or I might be in over my head :)
arpharazonv: I just haven't had much time for it. Maybe better luck next week!
arpharazonv: Heroes of the Storm: More playing around, no new levels or heroes. Still slowly going forward.
arpharazonv: Hearthstone: May season almost over! That should give the shadowmoon card back, I think, which is a rather nice one.
arpharazonv: This week's brawl was another unique one, make a deck as usual but keep in mind that all your units start off with stealth for one round. Makes for some interesting strategy.
arpharazonv: Slowly pushing towards level 42 on all classes.
Arien V: very good
arpharazonv: WoW: Gotten the troll alt to level 26, and finally had time to gather up some blackfang claws as well for the achievement, though I still need rather a lot.
arpharazonv: Which Legion coming ever closer, I've decided to reshuffle my priority list a bit before this expansion ends, and if some projects around the house are finally over I should be able to push in and get some things done, especially since we're getting a raid-break of two weeks soon. Just not enough people to keep doing stuff regularly, unfortunately.
arpharazonv: So yeah, not as much news as usual, but things should start picking up again.
arpharazonv: And that's my news for this week!
Arien V: still a good bunch :-)
Arien V: and well done :-)
Arien V: thank you very much for that

Arien V: as for me i ve played mostly Eve this week and seen Pallando there. He said "Aiya" once but else not much :-)
arpharazonv: I've had more of a dialogue than that with Fladrif, who's still falling to rank 15 often enough in Hearthstone.
Arien V: a bit rp in WoW of course . both on AD with the Loreseekers and with my Ignis Horde friends :-)
Arien V: ah well at least he is trying
arpharazonv: Indeed.
Arien V: i ve got to head upstairs though for the niht *yawn*
arpharazonv: Namarie!
Arien V: Namarie for now :-)
Varda Valar: Namarie
arpharazonv: Namarie!
arpharazonv: Well then, saving and sending transcript.