Valar Guild

December 11, 2016 Sunday Meeting

5pm EST (UTC/GMT - 5)

AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by Ar-Pharazon and Varda.

Attending: (4)
    Arien V (AriehnV), Ar-Pharazon-V (ArPharazonV), Eonwe Valar (presiding the first hour and a half), VardaValar1 (presiding last half)

Before-meeting
Meeting begins
Membership:
Web:
    Stories:
       "Learning to Smile" chapter 6 by Little Jewel-(T) posted today during the After-meeting.
Gaming
    Eonwe's report on general gaming news.
Tolkien:
    Topic: Feanor's oath: what incited it and what were the consequences?
After -meeting:
    Flashgaming Reviews by Ar-Pharazon
    Personal gaming Ar-Pharazon and Arien.
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Before-meeting

Ar-Pharazon-V (ArPharazonV) has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar (Eonwe Valar) has entered the room.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Aiya
Eonwe Valar: Heya.
Eonwe Valar: INvitations sent to Elladan, Gwaihir, and Farmer Maggot.
Arien V (AriehnV) has entered the room.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Aiya Arien!
Arien V: aiya all :-)
Eonwe Valar: Heya :}
Arien V: how are you all
Arien V: ?
Eonwe Valar: Doing good. And you?
Eonwe Valar: We'll be starting shortly btw.
Arien V: very tired from a very long day but else fine :-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
Ar-Pharazon-V: Also doing well, just finished up Val'sharah, about to log out of WoW.
Eonwe Valar: Every time I think I'm done questing in Legion, I find another small set of quests, hehe. But as far as I can tell, I'm done with the quests everywhere right now, hehe.
Ar-Pharazon-V: I finally finished the fourth starting zone after all this time, but next up are the class campaign, Suramar, the Illidan questline, worldquests...
Eonwe Valar: Although, I believe I should be stumbling across some more Murky quests somewhere.
Ar-Pharazon-V: I've really just finished the first stage of the whole thing, it feels :-)
Ar-Pharazon-V: Ah yes, I'm lacking 2 of those as well, but will look for them later.
Eonwe Valar: :}
Eonwe Valar: OK, let's go ahead and begin.
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Eonwe Valar: Olen Sila Lumenn Omentielvo!
Eonwe Valar: Membership:
Eonwe Valar: Varda's out of town visiting relatives.
Eonwe Valar: EonwÃ«, Pharazon, and Arien are here and the meeting :}
Eonwe Valar: *here at
Eonwe Valar: Any other membership news?
Eonwe Valar: I'll add from the News page that John Glenn passed away this week. As posted by Varda:
Eonwe Valar: "Rest in peace. John Glenn, astronaut, senator, aviator, fighter pilot, and engineer, died today at the age of 95.
       A Twitter-style comment from John Glenn: 'As I hurtled through space, one thought kept crossing my mind - every part of rocket was supplied by lowest bidder.'"
Ar-Pharazon-V: Scary thought :-)
Eonwe Valar: Aye, hehe.
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Eonwe Valar: Gaming:

Eonwe Valar: World of Warcraft:
Eonwe Valar: Check out this week's hotfixes.

Eonwe Valar: Starcraft 2:
Eonwe Valar: A preview for Patch 3.9 is out, showing us a new co-op commander: Alexei Stukov.
Eonwe Valar: A new balance update is out.

Eonwe Valar: Heroes of the Storm:
Eonwe Valar: Coming December 14th: Winterveil.

Eonwe Valar: Hearthstone:
Eonwe Valar: A new Gadgetzan Gazette is out.

Eonwe Valar: LotRO:
Eonwe Valar: I don't have a list of those Varda saw in LotRO for obvious reasons, but I'm sure there were people there :}
[List added into the transcript here:]

Arien
Bregalad
Dis
Elatan
Elladan
Erkenbrand
Fangorn
Gorlim
Lenwe
Marigold
Nar
Nimrodel
Varda

Eonwe Valar: We do have a bit of LotRO news that crossed with Tolkien news, so I'll put it here.
Eonwe Valar: Tolkien class in LotRO:
Link from Lenwe, thanks The Tolkien Professor, Corey Olsen, of kin Mythgard on the Landroval server is running his latest class, inviting kins to participate.
From his LotRO post:

"I plan to conduct a chapter-by-chapter detailed discussion of the Lord of the Rings. The discussions will take place on Tuesday evenings, 9:30 PM server time [EST], starting on Tolkien's 125th birthday: January 3, 2017. In each session, I will spend an hour or so (okay, probably 90 minutes) discussing the book chapter and its themes, reading passages and doing some close reading so that we can really get into the story as it unfolds."

Eonwe Valar: Anyone in the Valar Guild is encouraged to enjoy this when possible. Don't forget that LotRO has free to play so you can make a character even if you don't normally play. For those who can't come, session recordings will be posted at this YouTube site.
    Other links related to The Tolkien Professor: Tolkien Studies website at Signum U., Twitch account. Previous Mythgard classes. YouTube of Gryfflet in Lothlorien (includes lots of links) and on other alts such as Wigend.
    LotROmail Fainan or email Varda if you would like to join up with the Valar Guild's LotRO kin branch.
Eonwe Valar: All from the News Page as put up by Varda.
Eonwe Valar: Any other gaming news?
Eonwe Valar: Now is a good time to whisper Tolkien topics if you have one.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Hmmnope, no general news that I can think of.
Eonwe Valar: Ok, then let's go to.....
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Eonwe Valar: Tolkien:
Eonwe Valar: And Arien has a topic for us :} Go ahead Arien :}
Arien V: well i must warn you i am not prepared for vast knowledge about it .. just came across it about an hour ago or so and thought "this is interesting *
Arien V: but i am sure together and with Eonwes vast lexical background we just might get along :-)
Eonwe Valar: hehe
Arien V:     i was watching the video of Nightfall by Blind Guardian and found comments by a guy displaying more than average Tolkien knowledge posting under the alias Silmarien Ingollo
    and he printed under it the words of Feanors oath ^^
    as it was mentioned in a comment
Arien V: i will just copy it here so we can all remember it

Arien V:

“Be he foe or friend, be he foul or clean
Brood of Morgoth or bright Vala,
Elda or Maia or Aftercomer,
Man yet unborn upon Middle-earth,
Neither law, nor love, nor league of swords,
Dread nor danger, not Doom itself
Shall defend him from Fëanáro,
and Fëanáro’s kin,
Whoso hideth or hoardeth, or in hand taketh,
Finding keepeth or afar casteth
A Silmaril. This swear we all.
Death we will deal him ere Day’s ending,
Woe unto world’s end! Our word hear thou,
Eru Allfather! To the everlasting
Darkness doom us if our deed faileth.
On the holy mountain hear in witness
and our vow remember, Manwë and Varda!"

Arien V: now what exactly where the consequences of this oath and what incited it?
Arien V: that is my topic for tonight :-) or suggestion
Eonwe Valar: What incited the oath, or what inciting the consequences?
Arien V: the oath
Eonwe Valar: OK
Ar-Pharazon-V: Morgoth's theft of the Silmarils sounds like an incitement.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Killing Finwe while he was at it, right?
Arien V: yes i shall formulate a bit clearer
Arien V: what incited the oath and what where the consequences
Arien V: Phari .. that is correct as far as it goes
Eonwe Valar: That would pretty much be my answer as well. FÃ«anor spent some time building up to it with a grand speech about claiming lands of their own, taking revenge on Morgoth, etc., all this after Morgoth killed the Two Trees and the Valar asked FÃ«anor if he'd be willing to surrender the Silmarilli to heal the Trees.
Arien V: thank you Eonwe :0
Arien V: :-)
Eonwe Valar: But the theft of the Silmarils and FinwÃ«'s murder at the hands of Morgoth would've been the primary motivator.
Arien V: Yes, Finwe was his father after all
Arien V: so the consequences then , Gentlemen
Arien V: and the Silmaril the work of Feanors hand
Eonwe Valar: The rest of history up until the Third Age :}
Eonwe Valar: *The end of the Third Age
Ar-Pharazon-V: Heh, pretty much. But the First Age to start with.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Right up until the point where the last sons of Feanor were even unfit to handle the Silmarils they took an oath to recover.
Arien V: Feanor racing after Morgoth to get ships in Alqualonde from the Teleri .. which they refused largely
Arien V: they protected the ships and the Noldo fell over them with their superior armor and weaponry
Arien V: the first spilling of fighting elf against elf
Arien V: the first spilling of blood pardon me
Eonwe Valar: The first in Aman at least. I don't think it was confirmed of if there was any situation that had such happen before then.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Good point. A lot of elves were travelling a long distance for a lot of time before that.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Arguments may have happened.
Arien V: yes .. the Vanyar were utterly loyal to the valar and might have tried to influence Feanor in giving up the silmaril which why most of them were assembled in Tirion with the Valar and had gathered for a festival if i remember corriectly?
Ar-Pharazon-V: I meant before they crossed the sea to Valinor in the first place :-)
Arien V: ah i see ^^ .. there were the different tribes if you want with their different interests
Eonwe Valar: Sounds like that may be an earlier version of the story, from BoLT, Arien, but I don't recall that specific scenario in earlier versions.
Ar-Pharazon-V: The festival does ring a bell.
Eonwe Valar: (that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, of course, hehe, but it doesn't sound like something to familiar. There was a point as I recall where the feast and the situation at Formenos were not on the same day though.)
Eonwe Valar: *something too familiar
Arien V: some liked song and poetry more (the Vanyar), some liked fishing and boatbuilding loved the sea (the Teleri)some liked crafting and weaponry (the Noldo)
Arien V: i would think these interests clashed at times ^^
Eonwe Valar: Well, the Noldor weren't about weaponry specifically, but they did do it well when they turned their attention to it.
Eonwe Valar: The focus of the Noldor was knowledge. They liked to know things, particularly things others didn't. That's how Morgoth got their ear when he was parading about as Melkor.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Scientists?
Eonwe Valar: I'm trying to remember how Tolkien described it in one of his letters...
Eonwe Valar: I think he put it something along the lines of knowledge for the sake of knowledge: botany as opposed to agruculture.
Eonwe Valar: *agriculture
Ar-Pharazon-V: Theoretical science, then.
Eonwe Valar: But I think he might've attributed that to all Elves. I'd have to dig for that, but don't think I have time, hehe.
Eonwe Valar: The Noldor did obviously apply their knowledge.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Hence the crafting.
Eonwe Valar: But anyway, the Elves did have weapons prior to the Noldor forging them in Aman: Bows and spears mainly.
Arien V: hmmm i found something mentioning and ancient fetival in TBolT
Eonwe Valar: Don't think it specifies that the Noldor were the only ones who made them, and they likely had them in Aman as well if they hunted as it seemed they did.
Arien V: it speaks of an early version of Melko sawing discontent and enrmity towards the Valar and the other Elven tribes and even amongst the valar themselves#

Arien V: "Melko indeed was bidden get him back to Mandos and there dwell awhile in penitence nor dare walk in Valmar for many moons , not at least until the great festival that now approached had come and gone"

Arien V: but that was before the theft of the silmaril i think .. that leads up to the destruction of the trees
Arien V: maybe i am mixing that uip again
Eonwe Valar: No, that sounds right at least.
Arien V: right just flying over that chapter .. the festival was in honor of the Valar , Valmar itself more or less unprotected and when they returned from the festival messengers brought news that Melko had slain Feanors father and stolen the silmaril
Eonwe Valar: It's been a while since I read BoLT even for research, but I remember the order of events there being a bit more spaced out.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Sounds like it happened at the same time then, at least.
Arien V: *slain Feanors sire and stolen many treasures and gems*
Eonwe Valar: *compared to the Sil, to clarify
Eonwe Valar: Any, so consequences of the Oath: Kinslaying at Aqualonde (and the other two as well), Doom of the Noldor,FÃ«anor's death,...
Eonwe Valar: *Anyway
Ar-Pharazon-V: Not being allowed to come back to Valinor.
Arien V: indeed
Arien V: the crossing of the Helcaraxe since they lost their so blooodily gaineds ships in icy waters [Note: Feanor has the ships burned rather than returning for the others. So those crossed the Grinding Ice on foot.]
Ar-Pharazon-V: Couple more kinslayings, bloody wars against Morgoth which they slowly lost over the next 600 years...
Arien V: they had to walk the rest on ice if i remember corrextly
Arien V: correctly i mean .. my typing is going .. excuse that
Ar-Pharazon-V: Yes, you were right. Though that was mostly those Noldor who had *not* sworn the oath, right?
Eonwe Valar: Well, don't know if they did or didn't, but they followed FIngolfin and Finfarin more than they followed FÃ«anor.
Arien V: I can't remember .. but i believe so Galadlriel was amngst those i believe?
Eonwe Valar: Galadriel is specifically mentioned as "swearing no oaths"
Arien V: yep
Arien V: interesting .. maybe in preambulance of her role to come in future ages?
Arien V: well .. kind of pointing to .. well you know what i mean :-)
Varda Valar (VardaValar1) has entered the room.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Aiya!
Varda Valar: Aiya Arien, Phar, and Eonwe :-)
Arien V: Aiya Varda !
Eonwe Valar: Heya Varda :}
Varda Valar: Please continue and I'll try to catch up. Just got home and upacked.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Her role of becoming an independent leader who refused to serve anyone or succumb to Sauron?
Arien V: indeed Phari thats what i meant yes
Eonwe Valar: Well it helped her be more welcome in Doriath certainly.
Arien V: we are discussing Feaonors oath and its consequences Varda
Varda Valar: Galadriel sounds like
Ar-Pharazon-V: Hah, yes, might not have met Celeborn otherwise (depending on which version of how they met is true)
Varda Valar: ah, that would be the whole Silmarillion :-)
Eonwe Valar: The topic is the consequences of FÃ«anor's oath, with a few tangents along the way.
Varda Valar: Thanks
Eonwe Valar: Topic provided by Arien :}
Ar-Pharazon-V: Is there a relationship between Galadriel not taking the oath, and refusing Frodo's offer?
Eonwe Valar: But I must bow out at this point, and so I turn the gavel over to Varda for completing the meeting when we've reached that point :}
Ar-Pharazon-V: A resistance to evil, or the certainty of being allowed to go back when she wished?
Eonwe Valar: (If Varda is able to accept, anyway :})
Arien V: thank you very much Eonwe for gavelling so far
Varda Valar: Thank you and namarie, Eonwe :-)
Arien V: Namarie Eonwe :-)
Eonwe Valar: Take care all, good night, sleep well, and have fun :}
Ar-Pharazon-V: Namarie!
Varda Valar: Phar, both show an ability to resist temptation.
Eonwe Valar (Eonwe Valar) has left the room.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Where's the temptation in taking the oath?
Varda Valar: She fell to the idea of having her own kingdom, but worked against that by her and her husband calling themselves Lady and Lord instead of King and Queen.
Varda Valar: Go along with family, go along with a dying father.
Varda Valar: Go along with the head of their House
Ar-Pharazon-V: True.
Varda Valar: It was a good question.
Varda Valar: Why did the sons agree to the oath?
Varda Valar: and she did not?
Varda Valar: Was she a child of Feanor? That's the first question.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Niece, I recall.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Though I'm having trouble remembering if she was Fingolfin's or Finarfin's.
Arien V: Fingolfins but good friend with Finarfins sons or Finarfins ..i think she was Finarfins faint memories say
Varda Valar: She wasn't one of Feanor's children, so she didn't take the oath of his children.
Varda Valar: Feel free to pull up a book. This is an open book discussion. :-)
Arien V: indeed she was a; daughter of Finarfin
Arien V: and so Feanor was her half-uncle indee d or step - uncle if you want
Varda Valar: Finrod, her brother, did his best, but could not avoid the consequences of the oath.
Arien V: Feanor was the son of Finwes first wife Miriel#
Arien V: and Fingolfin and Finarfin the sons of his second wife
Arien V: Indis
Arien V: Galadriels brothers were Finrod Felagund, Orodreth, Angrod and Aegnor
Varda Valar: Indis, the Vanya, whose golden hair showed up iin the line that came down from her.
Arien V: *confirms8#
Varda Valar: Ok, consequences. The House of Feanor, as in Feanorn and his sons, were bound to take back the silmarils from anyone other than themselves, whether Vala or the most lowly.
Varda Valar: Since the sons of Feanor were lords over others as well, this affected a very large swath of elves' behavior.
Varda Valar: Others were affected by the oath as well, less directly. Finrod, Thingol, Luthien, Beren, Dior
Varda Valar: Eonwe and those that he brought with him
Varda Valar: What ended the oath finally?
Ar-Pharazon-V: When it became ultimately unfulfillable. One was streaking through the sky, the other two were lost after the remaining sons were no longer fit to keep them.
Ar-Pharazon-V: The silmarils, that is.
Arien V: the destruction of the silmaril (two of them were lost forever) and the third one could be regained and was forged into a circlet that Earendil wore on his brow as he steered his ship (Vingilot if i recall)
Arien V: So Hurin was right after all :-)
Arien V: AurÑ‘ entuluva!(The Day shall come again!).
Varda Valar: Vingilot is right, aye.
Varda Valar: After the oath was fulfilled that way, were there any after-effects?
Ar-Pharazon-V: The prime oath-takers were dead or missing, and the rest of the Noldor were allowed to go back home, if they wanted to.
Varda Valar: The groups of elves relationships with each other were lastingly changed. This affected everything thereafter.
Varda Valar: Galadriel was not allowed to go back home
Varda Valar: She had to pass a test first.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Would she not have been allowed.. or did she not allow herself?
Arien V: she was also needed in Middlearth wasnt she?
Varda Valar: She was the only revolting Noldor leader left alive after the Wars of Beleriand.
Ar-Pharazon-V: revolting *grin*
Varda Valar: She was under a ban against returning to Valinor.
Varda Valar: Ok, a bit of a pun. :-)
Ar-Pharazon-V: She was?
Ar-Pharazon-V: Now that I don't remember.
Varda Valar: The others died by the end of the Wars of Beleriand.
Ar-Pharazon-V: The ban, I mean.
Varda Valar: That was at the end of the First Age.
Varda Valar: Trying to locate the ban
Arien V: I think i found it
Arien V: it is at the end of the chapter *of the flight of the Noldor*(
Varda Valar: yay
Varda Valar: Found it too, thanks.

Arien V:
"Tears unnumbered ye shall shed and the Valar will fence Valinor against you and shut you out, so that not even the echo of your lamentation shall pass over the mountains.On the House of Feanor lieth the wrath of the Valar from the West to the uttermost Eastand upon all that follow, it shall be laid too"

Ar-Pharazon-V: Well, yes, the *original* ban. But that was pardoned at the end of the First Age.
Varda Valar: Feanor and crew are leaving Tirion, and the messenger of Manwe states the ban on Feanor, actually set up by Feanor. But then
Varda Valar: later, Mandos himself comes out and gives the wider ban.
Varda Valar: That was after the Kinslaying
Arien V: *Some say that it was Mandos, no lesser herald of Manwe* you mean :-)
Varda Valar: Aye
Varda Valar: That's the second ban, after the Kinslaying
Arien V: ah right
Varda Valar: The one Arien quoted
Varda Valar: She only quoted part of it. It's pretty long.
Arien V: yes i was lazy . my bad
Arien V: want the rest?
Varda Valar: Not lazy. It's just really long
Varda Valar: That was enough to identify the place.
Ar-Pharazon-V: But again, that ban is lifted at the end of the First Age, when the Noldor are pardoned and requested to come back to Aman.

Arien V:
"Their oath shall drive them and yet betray them, and ever snatch away the very treasures that they have sworn to pursue. To evil end all things shall turn that they begin,
Arien V: and by treason of kin onto kin and the fear of treason and they shall come to pass*
Arien V: The Disposessed you shall be forever"
Arien V: *Ye have spilled the blood of your kindred unrighteusly and stained the land of Aman. For blood ye shall render blood, and beyond Aman ye shall dwell in Death's shadow
Arien V: for though Eru appointed you shall not dle in Ea and no sickness shall assail you , yet slain you may be, and slain ye shall be.
Arien V: by weapon, by torment and by grief and your houseless spirits shall come to Mandos. There long ye shall abide and long for your bodies and find little pity, though all whom you have slain should entreat for you.
Arien V: And those who endure in Middlearth and come not to Mandos shall grow weary of the world as with a great burden , and shall wane, and become as shadows of regret before the younger race that cometh after.The Valar have spoken"
Arien V: End of quote :-)

Varda Valar: Wow, well done.
Varda Valar: some serious typing there.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Indeed :-)
Varda Valar: Some things simply will be contradictory, since the Silmarillion comes from notes and mostly those predating the LotR.
Varda Valar: The notes inside the Silmarillion can't always match.
Arien V: funny enough it reiminds me somehow of the words Galadriel sais after frodo offers her the ring"

Arien V: she sais " no Galadriel i shall remain and fade and go into the west"

Varda Valar: Aye
Ar-Pharazon-V: At the end of the main story, Of the voyage of Earendil, mention is made of Eonwe asking the elves of Beleriand to return with him, and they fall under a pardon when they return. But Galadriel and others decide to stay, though no further mention of a ban is made against them.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Unless you could say that they refused the pardon.. which is frankly a bit harsh.
Varda Valar: "Of the Voyage of Earendil" near the end, aye.
Varda Valar: It tells that some decided to remain, including Cirdan, Celeborn, and Galadriel

Varda Valar: It also mentions "Galadriel his wife, who alone remained of those who led the Noldor to exile in Beleriand."

Varda Valar: Also, these Beleriand elves who leave go to Tol Eressea.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Correct statement, then, but different context :-)
Varda Valar: Means "The Lonely Isle".
Ar-Pharazon-V: Numenor was more lonely than Eressea ever was.
Varda Valar: From there, they might be able to go on to Valinor.
Varda Valar: Maybe so. Numenor was able to visit Tol Eressea and Middle-earth, and did so.
Varda Valar: Those of Tol Eressea sometimes visited Numenor until they were no longer welcome.

Varda Valar: "and the Teleri forgave their ancient grief, and the curse was laid to rest."

Varda Valar: Gil-galad the High King remained in Middle-earth too
Varda Valar: but he didn't come over from Valinor
Ar-Pharazon-V: He kinda got killed in battle, not by choice ;-)
Ar-Pharazon-V: Might very well have wanted to return at some point.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Oh, wait.
Ar-Pharazon-V: I read your statement wrong.
Varda Valar: This was at the time that they could go to Tol Eressea. He was killed later by Sauron
Arien V: Wasnt he born in Middle- Eartj?
Ar-Pharazon-V: Was he?
Arien V: Middle - Earth?
Ar-Pharazon-V: Pretty young for a high-king, then.
Arien V: i am asking
Varda Valar: He was with Elendil at that battle.
Varda Valar: Gil-galad was born in Middle-earth, aye.
Ar-Pharazon-V: An elven high king, anyway.
Varda Valar: Hithlum
Varda Valar: That's where Gil-galad was born, in Middle-earth, in Hithlum.
Arien V: thanks Varda , i thoought that
Arien V: He was Fingons son#
Arien V: who was Fingolfins son :)]
Varda Valar: Easy to forget that Earendil's mother was Princess Idril, daughter of King Turgon of Gondolin.
Varda Valar: The lines that formed Aragorn's and Arwen's ancestry were strongly decided by the silmarils, and therefore the history of Men for quite some time.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Well into the fourth age, even.
Varda Valar: Long, long-reaching consequences from one oath.
Varda Valar: Aye
Ar-Pharazon-V: Could say it's still ongoing :-)
Varda Valar: Gave Man a strong start. :-)
Varda Valar: That would've bothered Feanor a lot to hear. :-)
Varda Valar: Maybe Galadriel, as a leader of the Exiles, felt a need to prove worthiness to return?
Varda Valar: It was a test that she needed for herself?
Ar-Pharazon-V: Sounds about right.
Arien V: so yes you were on the right track Phari :-)
Varda Valar: She had to become able to no longer seek domination.
Varda Valar: Yay Phar. :-)
Ar-Pharazon-V: Sometimes I get em right. Sometimes.
Varda Valar: And that's one!
Arien V: ... ugh .. i fear something else is claiming domination over me :?
Varda Valar: Galadriel, if she had taken the Ring, what would happen?
Varda Valar: Gandalf would have to pull back, as his mission failed?
Varda Valar: Sauron would be defeated by Galadriel and she would fall to being the dictator.
Ar-Pharazon-V: "Frodo, what did you do??"
Varda Valar: heh
Varda Valar: Weren't you supposed to pitch that thing into Mt. Doom, not pass it around?

Arien V: *you would have make them pay for all the things that they destroyed" .. yes , she said " so it would start but it wouldnt end there"

Varda Valar: She knew she would fall if she took it, and had the strength to leave it. Even with all the consequences to Lorien.
Varda Valar: and for Rivendell, for that matter.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Wise woman.
Varda Valar: For more on this, try checking out the last page of Irmo-(Valar)'s article on Galadriel. The whole article is well -worth reading for sure, but this part is what we were just discussing:
Varda Valar: http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/articles/g/Galadriel/GaladrielI/Galadriel7.htm
Varda Valar: Written in 2011, showing that our hobby is not time-dependent. :-)
Ar-Pharazon-V: Considering how old these books are, I'd say that's a given.
Varda Valar: Aye. :-)
Varda Valar: *picks up a shiny gavel*
Varda Valar: *it makes music as it rises*
Varda Valar: *the table reforms, beautifully carved with runes, and a with a new hammer pad that it strikes with a high note*
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Varda Valar: After-meeting!
Varda Valar: Free time!
Ar-Pharazon-V: The pad is back!
Arien V: Amazing :-)
Arien V: well i shall be overwhelmed by the fog of hypnosia or something like that and be drawn into the realm of Namo
Ar-Pharazon-V: Namarie, and rest well :-)
Ar-Pharazon-V: Well, considering I'm wanted in Heroes of the Storm, I'll just do my personal gaming right away ;-)
Arien V: Namarie friends :-)
Arien V: i shall see you next week
Ar-Pharazon-V: Namarie!
Varda Valar: Namarie!
Arien V (AriehnV) has left the room.

Ar-Pharazon-V: Let's start with flashgames!
Ar-Pharazon-V: http://www.kongregate.com/games/esthetix/escape-inc is the first, another point-and-click adventure from the.. mouse city people since I kinda need a name after all the times I've linked their clicky games :-)
Ar-Pharazon-V: This one's a more classic room escape type thing, but with the usual humor, and not too difficult, also as usual.
Ar-Pharazon-V: The story premise has a 60 minute timer, but I don't think that's actually in the game... and you kinda don't need more than 5-10 minutes for these games anyway.
Ar-Pharazon-V: http://www.kongregate.com/games/TogeProductions/relic-of-war is the second game, a strategy and upgrade game based on the Infectonator series from the same people, same type of gameplay at least. This one's about an alternate version of World War II.
Ar-Pharazon-V: http://www.kongregate.com/games/WixGames/ducklife3-evolution for the third game, a racing and upgrade game, part of a series wherein you train and upgrade your duckling to win racing tournaments using various skills. This one includes different types of duck to choose from and evolution stages as you advance.

Ar-Pharazon-V: Blizzard gaming!
Ar-Pharazon-V: Diablo 3: Making progress, almost done with season journey chapter 1, at level 43 out of 50 and the other objectives done. I do hope that when I'm done with levelling, the rest should go faster.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Hearthstone: Just doing my quests, hopefully keeping the classes a bit closer together this time around, in experience.
Ar-Pharazon-V: New brawl this week, with all deathrattles rattling twice, interesting combinations possible with custom decks you have to make.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Take note, the legendary that would usually cause the double rattle effect, does not have any effect: it does not make everything rattle 3 or 4 times. So don't use it :-)
Ar-Pharazon-V: Heroes of the Storm: More progress! I activated Gul'dan using the code from my movie dvd, and got him to level 4, so I've got a new warcraft assassin.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Also, my warcraft warrior, Muradin, also hit level 10 this week, and I replaced him with Rexxar, the hunter with bear! Lot of fun.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Both of them are, actually. And both are level 4 now.
Ar-Pharazon-V: I'm sure they'll be levelling plenty more often in the coming weeks/months.
Ar-Pharazon-V: This week's brawl pitches 5 random heroes vs 5 random heroes in a struggle to collect 100 seeds in a Garden of Terror scenario, with a single center area where the garden terrors spawn.
Ar-Pharazon-V: The 3 matches I played were pretty tight, and it's easy to drive off the enemy, think you've won, fight the terrors.. and then get hit in the back when the other team returns, only to lose after all :-)
Ar-Pharazon-V: WoW:
Ar-Pharazon-V: We didn't get any new pets from Wrath of the Lich King this week, but I did get a few more shards of Va'lanyr.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Raiding's pretty much on farm for heroic Emerald Nightmare and normal Trials of Valor. Mythic Nightmare is being tried, but I'm not there on tuesday, so eh.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Weekly quest was winning 4 battlegrounds, which didn't take too long for me since I got halfway in for some of them.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Along the way I got my 1000th pvp kill using a hidden artifact skin, so that came with new skins for bear and catform as well :-)
Ar-Pharazon-V: Interestingly, if you unlock the hidden appearance on one spec, and use that to get the 1000 kills (or other hidden variations) you can use that particular variation on other specs too, despite not owning the original.
Ar-Pharazon-V: And, presumably, use that to get the other 2 variations as well. But that feels a bit exploity for me, so I'm not using it for my catspec until I get the original hidden appearance.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Though apparently Blizzard should be aware of the bug and just isn't doing anything about it. It's just cosmetic after all.
Varda Valar: (6th chapter of Learning to Smile is now online)
Ar-Pharazon-V: For wardrobe appearances, I've now finished normal Hellfire Ramparts and have started the heroic version. But that's on a daily lock, so it'll probably take a while longer to fully unlock.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Quest-wise I've made a good amount of progress though!
Ar-Pharazon-V: Finished the main storylines in Val'sharah, completing several achievements, unlocking the fourth Pillar of Creation and got the last Tehd & Marius adventure as well.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Zone is now completely explored, I've managed to finally do the leatherworking quests there, and all that remains is doing the quest inside the 5-man dungeon.
Ar-Pharazon-V: After that, I'm all set for the next stage of my journey, including class campaign, Suramar questing, and world quests. Feels like Legion isn't really starting until now, that's how long it's taken me :-)
Ar-Pharazon-V: But I'm looking forward to getting all that stuff started!
Ar-Pharazon-V: And that's my report for this week!
Ar-Pharazon-V: So now I'll head over to meet a friend in Heroes of the Storm, but I'll be able to respond here if there's something for me to say :-)
Varda Valar: Thank you, Phar. :-)
Varda Valar: Namarie
Varda Valar (VardaValar1) has left the room.
Ar-Pharazon-V: Namarie!
Ar-Pharazon-V: Saving and sending transcript.
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