November 1, 2015 Sunday Meeting
EST (UTC/GMT - 5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
Back to News
Transcript work by Ar-Pharazon and Varda.
AnarionV/Anarion House of Elendil, ArPharazonV, Falco-V/CM Anderso or cmanderso, Varda Valar
Memorial for Indis-(V) planned.
One new member this week: Haldir-(V). He finished his test during the After-meeting.
Some say a major theme of the Lord of the Rings is death, as in how
it's faced, and what happens to various beings afterwards.
Gaming news from Ar-Pharazon including flashgaming reviews.
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: US is now off DST, back in sync!
VardaValar1: I'm trying to give a potential recruit an entry test, just was scouted by
ArPharazonV: doing my daily fishing, so that's fine :-)
VardaValar1: Any chance 'Arien could chair?
ArPharazonV: Could ask.
ArPharazonV: Arien not online. Not for 2 days.
VardaValar1: Ok, don't go scaring me. :-)
ArPharazonV: a day late for that ;-)
VardaValar1: ok, let's invite
CM Anderso has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya :-)
CM Anderso: Aiya
VardaValar1: Trying to do an entry test and have a meeting at the same time, can be crazy :-)
AnarionV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Anarion :-)
ArPharazonV: And.. still with email.
AnarionV: Ahah, it was valarguildmeeting*place*, I knew I hadn't quite got the right channel!
ArPharazonV: But you can edit that out as always.
AnarionV: Sorry about that, I don't know what is causing it
VardaValar1: It may be on Phar's side,not yours. :-)
VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: A star shines on the hour of our meeting. :-)
ArPharazonV: That's rather likely. But I don't know if I can change it without changing versions and sacrificing the transcript.
VardaValar1: I can edit with find and destroy, er, replace, np.
VardaValar1: I'm currently trying to also give a recruiting test, so this is a bit tricky.
VardaValar1: Arien has disappeared for the last two days
VardaValar1: We hope the recent storms haven't caused her too much difficulty.
VardaValar1: About Indis,
VardaValar1: some of you may know she beat cancer once, but it came back.
VardaValar1: She died October 24
ArPharazonV: Condolences to the guild and her loved ones...
CM Anderso: Ditto
ArPharazonV: Feels really sudden!
ArPharazonV: But it can go really fast.
VardaValar1: We will miss her here for coming to the meetings so
regularly, and aiding the Tolkien chat. Plus she has been gaming in
LotRO since it started. Long-time kin member. [The forum RP story will
miss her very much!]
VardaValar1: The LotRO memorials we are doing are on Nov 7, details on the kin site under the News.
VardaValar1: We will probably be posting it on our Forum later today as well, possibly easier for you. [Posted.]
VardaValar1: We also have her Facebook posted for those of you with that who would like to say goodbye there as many have.
VardaValar1: Any other membership news?
VardaValar1: Or other comments. Don't want to put anyone on the spot.
VardaValar1: Do all of you have access to our website for the info?
VardaValar1: Click the picture, the words, or the word News for an unframed version.
AnarionV: The link is easy enough, but it can be a large site depending on how far you delve :-)
VardaValar1: It's a gigantic site, aye. :-)
VardaValar1: The News gives you the transcripts of these sessions as well. :-)
VardaValar1: I apologize for not having put up any new pictures from
the Bohemian Weasel, as some are available, and hope to do so during
the week, but no promises.
ArPharazonV: Just means we'll get more pictures at once next time ;-)
VardaValar1: There you go!
VardaValar1: Here's hoping some of you will be mailing in your own
research in the original sources on your own characters, for an article
on our Tolkien Site. :-)
VardaValar1: Eonwe has updated the Gaming Site.
VardaValar1: Update 17 is out: Siege of Minas Tirith
VardaValar1: There's a new Developer's Diary about
Tier 10 crafting.
VardaValar1: See what's going on
this month in WoW.
VardaValar1: See the
VardaValar1: StarCraft 2:
VardaValar1: Check out the notes for
VardaValar1: New short story:
VardaValar1: Coming soon: the
end of the beta
for Legacy of the Void.
VardaValar1: New blog on a feature coming in Legacy of the Void:
VardaValar1: Overwatch Closed beta is now live. If this interests you, check out
for details on if you get in.
VardaValar1: Any other games not yet mentioned? Pallando's not present to tell about Eve Online
VardaValar1: Any other comments, questions, suggestions?
ArPharazonV: Hearthstone new season started.
VardaValar1: Those of us in LotRO, please do check out the News for the
additions Remnant added to the plans that have been LotROmailed
ArPharazonV: But they refused to reveal this month's reward card back until Blizzcon.
ArPharazonV: Probably spoiler-ish!
VardaValar1: Thanks, Phar. :-) Guess they have to have something for folks to look forward to learning.
ArPharazonV: That could also be it, yes :-)
AnarionV: Looks like they are on track for another adventure
VardaValar1: And we're ready for...
VardaValar1: Before I offer a discussion topic, did anyone else have a
Tolkien question they wanted to ask? or a topic they'd like to see
VardaValar1: Who is present? Please type Manwe
VardaValar1: Thank you, Phar. :-)
VardaValar1: The subject is that some say a major
theme of the Lord of the Rings is death, as in how it's faced, and what
happens to various beings afterwards.
AnarionV: I'd agree, I recall several significant conversations, a few of which made it into the movie
ArPharazonV: And one that was only present in the History, I think.
VardaValar1: Eadburg in the test says it's more change than death, as in death of the older ways.
VardaValar1: Ending, change, new beginnings
VardaValar1: Training wheels removed for men
AnarionV: Well the concept of change is I guess even more prevalent in
LOTR than the concept of death, but I'd say death is a well-explored
theme in LOTR
AnarionV: I remember the Silmarilion talking about the "gift of Men"
VardaValar1: Why did they call it that
ArPharazonV: Because they were not bound to Arda and its lifespan, but would eventually go outside and live with Eru.
AnarionV: Well the more normal reference was the "doom of Men", but it
was originally referred to as the gift, for the reason Ar-Pharazon gave
VardaValar1: doom is fate, also
ArPharazonV: When Morgoth interacted with the first Men, it was through
him that they learned to fear the dark, the unknown, having to leave
the world. Made them reject the "gift", if that was possible.
AnarionV: Rejecting being with (and under) Eru was the reason for much of Morgoth's existence
AnarionV: But, for Men at least, that's is what death ultimately meant
VardaValar1: He wanted to have all the power that anyone else ever had, even Eru's. Right
AnarionV: It seems like death wasn't a cessation of existence for more
than just Men, Pippin's conversation with Gandalf about the fear of
death has a little to say about that
AnarionV: not having a copy of the book, I can't tell what is immediately before and after
VardaValar1: Sauron worked hard to pervert what Men thought the gift of Men really was.
VardaValar1: Sacrilege! Where is your book? :-)
ArPharazonV: Pippin, as a Hobbit, had human origins. And I do believe
that Men visit Aman/Mandos for a short while before passing on.
ArPharazonV: It's where Luthien caught up with Beren, I believe?
VardaValar1: Aye, it is said that Men come to Mandos to reflect for a short time before moving on. To where, the elves know not.
ArPharazonV: And yes, Sauron did follow in Morgoth's footsteps that way.
ArPharazonV: And in many other ways...
VardaValar1: Very likely, although I don't think it said that explicitly. She joined the Fate of Men
VardaValar1: (In the entry test, he has 4/5, going for a perfect score now. :-) )
VardaValar1: Got it! Now trying to pick a name. :-)
AnarionV: I'd say the topic of death is one where Tolkien has his Christianity express itself most obviously
VardaValar1: Does anyone have anything else to add to the subject? It's big enough for a book of comments. :-)
VardaValar1: and also the Nordic bravery in the face of death.
AnarionV: What would you folks say are the different ways in which LOTR characters face death?
ArPharazonV: I don't know, there doesn't really seem to be anything
akin to the Christian "hell". Even the bad guys will go to Eru after
perhaps some penance in Mandos.
AnarionV: Oh, interesting.
VardaValar1: And it seems different from Hell in other ways.
VardaValar1: More of a gibbering wraith in a corner for strong ones, or perhaps non-existence for orcs.
ArPharazonV: You can fight for Morgoth/Sauron all you like, but nobody's taking your gift away.
ArPharazonV: Except for.. well.. Pharazon, I suppose, and even that won't last beyond the last battle.
AnarionV: Well the concept of "hell" is not one particularly well
understood in Christianity. There are indeed some Christians who
believe that "all will be saved", in a similar manner to what I'm
hearing from you
VardaValar1: Pharazon is in a pit with his men, in Valinor, waiting for the end time to show what side they're on.
VardaValar1: Not exactly what we're saying about the Tolkien characters.
VardaValar1: Non-existence apparently, for orcs, or sent to be with Morgoth maybe.
ArPharazonV: That is true.
VardaValar1: Not really clear there.
AnarionV: Fair enough, I'm drawing an analogy, not saying these are
parallel, but it is interesting. I didn't know all this about Tolkien's
VardaValar1: A Maia like Sauron or Saruman lost the body and could not
re-form after losing favor and the battle, but became like minor
spirits of evil in Arda.
AnarionV: Oh, where is Morgoth now, after all is said and done?
VardaValar1: This is a fun place, these meetings, to pick up stuff. Sometimes we're wrong and correct each other, too
VardaValar1: Morgoth is outside the Doors of Night right now.
VardaValar1: When he comes back, Manwe will come down from Mount
Taniquetil to go against him, preventing his destroying everything.
ArPharazonV: Does that mean he's in range of Eru? That bit isn't exactly mapped :-)
VardaValar1: Morgoth is a nihilist, really.
VardaValar1: Everything is in easy range of Eru, aye. :-)
AnarionV: Book of lost tales concerning the doors of night, from
wikipedia: About the World are the Ilurambar, or Walls of the World.
They are as ice and glass and steel, being above all the imagination of
the Children of Earth cold, transparent, and hard. They cannot be seen,
nor can they be passed, save by the Door of Night. Within these walls
the Earth is globed: above, below and upon all sides is Vaiya, the
Enfolding Ocean. But this is more like to sea below the Earth and more
like to air above the Earth
VardaValar1: Eru is letting the Song work out, except for a few spots
as where the Valar stepped aside so they would not have to kill their
brothers, the invading Numenoreans.
VardaValar1: Aye, an early version, pretty cool!
ArPharazonV: Which means the Numenoreans are basically a loose element in the end times.
ArPharazonV: We could even sway the battle to Morgoth's victory if we so choose!
AnarionV: May it never be! *gasp*
ArPharazonV: *testing if still here*
AnarionV: *still here*
ArPharazonV: Guess Varda's finalizing our new recruit :-)
VardaValar1: continue or move on. :-)
CM Anderso: I'm here... trying to stay alive in a skirmish
AnarionV: move-on probably?
VardaValar1: We have a new member, Haldir-(V)!
ArPharazonV: Hrrrrm. Shall I just throw in my personal gaming news?
ArPharazonV: Welcome Haldir!
VardaValar1: Sure, go ahead. :-)
VardaValar1: Copy/pasted to him. :-)
ArPharazonV: Righto! Pharazon's personal gaming for the week.
ArPharazonV: For flashgaming I've got 2 halloween games!
ArPharazonV: http://www.kongregate.com/games/teralumina/haunted-halloween-escape is apparently a pretty old game, but found it recently added to another site, so that's how I came across it.
ArPharazonV: Point and click escape game, with all the frustrating puzzling that implies, but with spoooooky elements!
ArPharazonV: And then http://www.onemorelevel.com/game/zombie_and_juliet
is an upgrade/fighting/rpg game where the classic tale gets a new
twist.. and Juliet makes a deal with a demon lord to bring Romeo back
ArPharazonV: Only problem is that it has a problem with save progress.
Might get fixed later, since it is supposed to have one, looking at the
ArPharazonV: Right, blizzard games I've played :-)
ArPharazonV: Heroes of the Storm
also has a Halloween event! Including a new mount and skin, a full week
of bonus experience, and if you win 25 games between now and november
17, you get a pumpkin portrait!
ArPharazonV: Been playing a few games in Co-op vs AI mode, to ensure
getting those wins. Such a waste if you lose and you still need so many
VardaValar1: Computer might be locking up. Be sure to save the transcript!
ArPharazonV: Also, Artanis has been introduced as a new hero, and free to try in a testing arena for a while.
ArPharazonV: Will d o!
ArPharazonV: Hearthstone: Season over! I actually got a new personal record this week, making it to rank 14 by what appears to have been sheer luck :-)
ArPharazonV: After that I knew I got in over my head and expected to
have to lose a bunch of fights to stand a chance again... but then the
season ended and we all ended up back at the bottom anyway. So phew!
ArPharazonV: Didn't play Diablo 3, but went into Starcraft II instead!
ArPharazonV: I got it into my head to finally clear the Heart of the
Swarm campaign, on normal difficulty for some speed and because I
hadn't played SCII in some time, before Legacy of the Void launches on
AnarionV: Sorry to be late, but when your news section is over, I'd like to ask you about your hearthstone decks
ArPharazonV: Not sure if I'll make it, but I've got the Umoja and Char
planets done so far. Having a lot of fun, though if I want to do the
normal difficulty achievements with it, the missions do feel rather on
a timer, which is a shame. Many are on a timer even without
ArPharazonV: Not sure I can help you there. With the exception of my
rather terrible improvised druid deck, I've been just taking my decks
from the Icy Veins website.
ArPharazonV: For some classes I'm even missing some key cards which
reduce me to playing basic-only decks, though with adventure rewards
ArPharazonV: http://www.icy-veins.com/hearthstone/decks-and-guides-for-constructed-play is what I use, you can click on each class for a list.
ArPharazonV: It's often updated to fit the meta, as well, and you can choose for whatever playstyle you want.
AnarionV: Ah, so you're playing super budget decks then?
ArPharazonV: If you mean super-low, then yes ;-) I don't even craft
anything because I got it into my head to collect dust until I can
craft all my missing cards at once.
AnarionV: I ended last season at rank 12, and worked my way to rank 5 the season before
AnarionV: but I have Tirion and Boom and Ysera, and both adventures...
AnarionV: Though actually I didn't have Ysera for my rank 5 achivement
ArPharazonV: Ah, so that's why you asked. Yes, I do play low budget
decks, so I don't get very far. I'm also not a very big fan of some
gimmicky decks like grim patron.
ArPharazonV: And I have none of those 3 yet :-)
AnarionV: Ah, I used to think that boom pretty much had to be one of your first crafts
AnarionV: but now it isn't as necessary
AnarionV: But what do you have for legendaries?
AnarionV: (Grim Patron really got the axe last patch)
ArPharazonV: Getting higher rank now is pretty nice because of the
end-of-season rewards, but generally I'm fine with bouncing around the
lower ranks as long as I get my quests done.
ArPharazonV: Hah, yes, I know :-)
ArPharazonV: Let's take a look. Not too many. All the adventure ones, at least.
AnarionV: Oh ok, so you actually probably have a pretty decent zoo in your collection at least
ArPharazonV: Also.. Dreadscale, Gallywix, Neptulon, Grommash, (golden)
Millhouse, Pagle, Mukla, Murk-eye, Illidan, Sneed, Icehowl...
ArPharazonV: And yes, that's it.
ArPharazonV: Some are fun, but not the really core useful ones.
AnarionV: Did you get murk-eye as a drop or as a murloc reward?
ArPharazonV: Murk-eye is just available as a reward for getting one of each murloc, which dropped for me :-)
AnarionV: Very, very nice
ArPharazonV: I'd say Grommash is probably my most useful.
AnarionV: Have you considered Murlocadin then?
ArPharazonV: I've had some fun with Sneed, but getting Majordomo from him as a possibility scared me off a bit.
AnarionV: Seed is excellent, not exactly Tier-1 but close to it
ArPharazonV: Hmm, my more recent paladin deck does have a few murlocs, but not all that many.
AnarionV: Yeah, getting majordomo would suck though
ArPharazonV: I do have the murlocs that summon other murlocs ;-)
AnarionV: If you get yourself a second warleader, building an all-murloc deck might be effective and hilarious
AnarionV: Most effective murloc decks require one of the epic-rarity paladin weapons though
ArPharazonV: I think I've got 2 of everything except oracle, actually.
ArPharazonV: I've been playing for quite a while!
ArPharazonV: I've got 1 Coghammer.
ArPharazonV: But I assume we're talking Sword of Justice?
AnarionV: Sword of justice is more normal, but I think I read some murloc deck that was using coghammer instead for speed's sake
AnarionV: sword of justice isn't necessary if you can get a warleader out
ArPharazonV: Well, like I said, I don't craft. Which is why I don't have Boom.
ArPharazonV: That's fair.
AnarionV: You seriously need to dust that golden millouse xD
ArPharazonV: Nahh. I like having golden cards, and I do want to have a full collection.
ArPharazonV: Collecting cards is for me a much higher priority than getting rank.
AnarionV: Your card collection should slow down a bit if you don't have a few meta decks though
ArPharazonV: Only because of the end-of-season reward chest. If you get
your quests done you get as much done in the lower ranks as you do in
the higher ones.
AnarionV: but play however you like!
AnarionV: Yes, generally though if you can smash through the lower ranks while completing quests though
AnarionV: it should be faster than running 'casual'
ArPharazonV: For a few days. And then you end up at a higher rank where
you *still* settle at around a 50% win and then you might as well be
AnarionV: True, but if you only gain 3-4 stars a day
AnarionV: so its more like a 1/4 of the season
ArPharazonV: Well, I do get *all* my quests done, even though it can be a bit slower.
ArPharazonV: I'm fine this way though. Anything to avoid crafting something and then getting it from a pack a few days later :-)
AnarionV: how much dust do you have anyways?
ArPharazonV: Just over 6k now.
AnarionV: Though really...ooooooooooooooooo
AnarionV: Though really the worst part is when you dust something useless
AnarionV: and then you need it next week
ArPharazonV: Which is why I don't dust anything I have 2 or less of :-)
AnarionV: Only done that twice though, once with Sea Giant, and once with Kezan Mystic
ArPharazonV: Nope, exception, I once dusted a duplicate Mukla, because legendary ;-)
AnarionV: I'm not looking for anywhere near a complete collection
AnarionV: I'm looking for all of the (non-useless) priest cards, all of
the (non-useless) paladin cards, all of the (non-useless) mage cards,
and all of the (non-useless) zoo/demon-lock cards.
AnarionV: I'm dusting warrior and Druid like mad
ArPharazonV: Ahh. Well one of my other goals is to get all classes
levelled pretty much equally, so I play all of them depending on quests.
ArPharazonV: I really play broad-spectrum here :-)
AnarionV: Ahah, I'm looking more towards gold-portraits in the future, rather than playing all classes
ArPharazonV: Oh, me too. But I want all of them ;-)
AnarionV: Yeah, I don't want all of them for sure
AnarionV: Golden hunter? Nope, I don't want to play that deck 1000 times
ArPharazonV: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucZ-NehMggM#t=25 as for complete collection, this Abathur dialogue from Starcraft II I came across today really sums up my view of it...
ArPharazonV: Collection goal that changes. Never stops moving. Can chase. Never catch.
ArPharazonV: And that won't stop me from trying ;-)
AnarionV: Well its certainly catchable...with enough cash
ArPharazonV: Hah, a few thousand perhaps! Or a whole lot of arena which I don't like as a concept.
AnarionV: Nah, arena doesn't make you any faster per game, only per day
ArPharazonV: ah, 700 dollars, a bit less than I'd read
ArPharazonV: Well, you're supposed to get more dust that way, etc.. but yes.
ArPharazonV: And with every expansion, the goal moves a little bit further :-)
AnarionV: These numbers look like they are only for classic, in other words they were made before gvg and tgt
AnarionV: There is a full analysis
AnarionV: No legendaries [94, 81, 37, 0]: 287 (248) packs. This seems
like the first reasonable way of reducing the amount of cards you need.
ArPharazonV: Oh, right, it was the golden collection that required thousands.
AnarionV: There's the average packs required, and though that might
only be classic, the total number probably doesn't exceed more than
AnarionV: So buying your way to a complete collection, legendaries excluded, is faster than you'd expect
AnarionV: and cheaper
AnarionV: That said
AnarionV: With 6k dust already...
ArPharazonV: I might get pretty far, yes :-)
AnarionV: If you went and started crafting missing epics...
ArPharazonV: For now I'll keep chasing with full legendary thought. But you've given me something to think about.
AnarionV: You'd only be able to craft 7.5 full epic card sets...ouch
AnarionV: In the basic set you have 37 epic cards sets, so assuming you
have 10ish epics and can craft another 15...half that...you'd be on
your way to halfway there
AnarionV: Hrm...yep, this could get intractable with F2P pretty darn fast
ArPharazonV: Still won't stop me from trying!
AnarionV: Sorry, I like to go on game-analysis runs like this, and sometimes take other people with me
ArPharazonV: That's fine. I don't really care about the odds, beyond
knowing that they're not very good. It's all about the chase!
AnarionV: and the cards are indeed fun in the meantime
ArPharazonV: Of course. And even playing with budget decks is okay, as
long as you're not up against the ruthless meta near the top.
ArPharazonV: At least at the lower ranks you've still got some variety :-)
AnarionV: Hey now, there is variety in the ruthless meta...but yeah, not as much
AnarionV: Before I got Tirion and dragon decks came out I ran a mech shadowpriest
AnarionV: I still sometimes bring it out
ArPharazonV: Sounds interesting.
AnarionV: I used all that priest removal to take down people running
Rag and Boom, sometimes even snatching a victory despite meeting both
ArPharazonV: I admit, meeting those at lower budget is a bit problematic.
AnarionV: Yeah, there are some cards at the top that are just crazy
AnarionV: I played a freeze mage that centered around Ysera as soon as I got her
AnarionV: I had some other small win conditions, but Ysera is just such
a lategame beast that when she goes down she can win games almost by
AnarionV: I can't see how a budget deck could beat that
AnarionV: And facing down warriors and priests with justicar trueheart is just soul-crushing
ArPharazonV: I could still get that one from a pack ;-)
ArPharazonV: Right, to finish my personal gaming news with World of Warcraft...
AnarionV: Ah, of course
ArPharazonV: Got all the stuff I wanted from Hallow's End with the
exception of the Horseman's mount, but there's always next year again!
ArPharazonV: Not much raiding progress though. Did pretty well on our
heroic Mannoroth attempts, but didn't bring him down yet. Maybe this
tuesday, though my group will have to do that without me, because I'll
be busy elsewhere.
ArPharazonV: Pet battles going well, got a new pet and toy from the pet
charms, leaving just one more pet to buy, and then I can use the Charms
for rare battlestones with which I can start upgrading all the non-rare
pets I picked up over the years. So the collection's coming along!
ArPharazonV: And did a bunch of reputation-hunting as well, with the
Steamwheedle Preservation Society. Only a few hundred more artifact
fragments to collect, should be done during the next week :-)
ArPharazonV: And yes, I think that's all my gaming news for this week!
AnarionV: Well its pretty late for you, eh?
AnarionV: I'm about to go AFK on a hunt for after-halloween candy sales
AnarionV: So have a good one!
ArPharazonV: Yep, but still got some browsing and stuff to do, maybe another Starcraft mission.
ArPharazonV: Allright, thanks, and good luck :-)
VardaValar1: back :-)
VardaValar1: and hi to Falco, Anarion, and Phar, still here, yay!
ArPharazonV: Testing, testing, still here?
ArPharazonV: Yep, so I am.
VardaValar1: Why so you are!
VardaValar1: nutty programs cutting you off for inactivity. This one can't be eating much of their bandwidth
ArPharazonV: Well, still not sure if inactivity is the cause.
VardaValar1: o ok
ArPharazonV: To be honest, the problems with this version are starting
to pile up. Even have trouble booting the program lately, but repeated
attempts usually work.
ArPharazonV: But it's not intolerable yet.
VardaValar1: Go ahead and try another version. We'll see how it goes.
ArPharazonV: Nah, it's fine so far. I'll find out if it gets worse over the next week, and then I can still decide.
ArPharazonV: saving and sending transcript