Valar Guild

June 7, 2015 Sunday Meeting

5pm EDT (UTC/GMT - 5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by
Ar-Pharazon and Varda.

Attending: (3)
    AriehnV, ArPharazonV, VardaValar1 (presiding)

Meeting begins
    Tolkien Site: new art from the Bohemian Weasel-(T)
    Games Site news for games
    Topic: there are those that argue about whether the Hero's Journey is an actual thing that happens in myths, folklore, or major storytelling.
    Tangent topic: legality of having the One Ring
    Extra: YouTube of JRRT reciting "Namarie"

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
VardaValar1: Aiya Phar :-)
VardaValar1: Reckon we need to fire up our games and go poke folks? :-)
ArPharazonV: Arien poked.
VardaValar1: It was easier in Diablo 1 days, catching each other in the channel between games, heh.
VardaValar1: Thank you
AriehnV has entered the room.
AriehnV: aiya all :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
VardaValar1: Aiya Arien :-)
VardaValar1: I don't see Indis on LotRO
VardaValar1: Gorlim is in a raid on LotRO
AriehnV: hmm I hope she is okay
VardaValar1: Me too
VardaValar1: Ok - invites sent to those visible. Thank you for coming!

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Membership:
VardaValar1: I have been lax in recruiting - my apologies.
VardaValar1: Scouting welcomed from all members.
VardaValar1: For those reading the transcript, please pick someone who has read the LotR so as not to waste their time and ours,
VardaValar1: and pick someone you would be happy to be around for the next seventeen plus years. :-)
AriehnV: :-)
VardaValar1: Like you too, yep. :-)
VardaValar1: *two
VardaValar1: Any other membership news?
AriehnV: nope not really apart from that i will try to get another professional qualification to make it easier to find a different job
VardaValar1: You're a go-getter. :-)
ArPharazonV: Ambitious!
AriehnV: Sage accounts online course
VardaValar1: Hope it works out for you!
AriehnV: i have to find out how actually to go about it ^^ so i have to wait until tomorrow so i can chat with someone and i hope too :-)
ArPharazonV: Nothing new for me except that this week was my last lesson for the salsa dance course I've done, so got tuesdays free again for raidz until september.
VardaValar1: Grats on finishing the course. :-)
VardaValar1: and the raid time!
ArPharazonV: And getting myself hyped for the 100th MLP episode next saturday! ;-)
VardaValar1: Been that long? heh - enjoy!
ArPharazonV: Oh yes, 5 seasons already.

VardaValar1: Web:
VardaValar1: Tolkien Site:
VardaValar1: We have new pictures for you.
VardaValar1: The Bohemian Weasel added more Topps card work, so here are some in story order even.
VardaValar1: "The Ring..." movie-only
VardaValar1: Frodo realizes the Ring is missing while they're in the snow. It's retrieved by Boromir. Not book canon, but the picture could also illustrate Frodo showing the mithril shirt after Moria.
VardaValar1: "Give the Ring to Frodo." movie-only: Aragorn warns Boromir.
VardaValar1: "So small a thing..." movie-only. Boromir considers the Ring: ‘It is a strange fate we should suffer so much fear and doubt over so small a thing. Such a little thing.’
VardaValar1: "Come and help an old man..." Gandalf stopping a blaming argument between dwarf and elf in front of Moria.
VardaValar1: Then we switch over to Moria.
VardaValar1: er, just then.
VardaValar1: "The water stirs..." Boromir outside Moria.
VardaValar1: That last one has color, not a Topps card but a Masterpieces card.
VardaValar1: Masterpieces II collection
VardaValar1: and done for now. :-)
VardaValar1: Just trying to get you to see the ones with the long http: lines, there.
VardaValar1: as new.
VardaValar1: Let me know when we're caught up. :-)
AriehnV: they are really good :-) i like them
VardaValar1: Yay
ArPharazonV: So is the goal to have one picture for each line of dialogue? ;-)
VardaValar1: The art for the cards can look very different from the other art.
VardaValar1: hehe - that would be a lot!
VardaValar1: She started making a section on her site chronologically for the story after seeing ours, not sure if that's connected or not.
VardaValar1: It does help organization of pictures, and finding what you're looking for.
VardaValar1: When she started doing that, she started adding those captions.
ArPharazonV: Could make youtube videos with the audio from the movies accompanied by those pictures.
VardaValar1: Pretty much.
VardaValar1: Still missing a few important scenes, such as seeing the Watcher attack from the water.
VardaValar1: Might be a good suggestion. Maybe it would help her sales too.

VardaValar1: The Games Site has news too. Also, Eonwe's been trying to update it so it's a useful tool for everyone, quite a job. Unpaid too.
VardaValar1: So, on to...

VardaValar1: Gaming:
Sentences with in-line links are from theValar Guild Games Site.

VardaValar1: World of WarCraft:
VardaValar1: Check out some previews for 6.2. There's a blog for Ashran Updates and one for Hellfire Citadel.
VardaValar1: There's also updates to the PTR patch notes.

VardaValar1: Heroes of the Storm:
VardaValar1: Heroes of the Storm is live. Check out the latest patch notes.
VardaValar1: Eonwe tried it out and emailed this:
VardaValar1: I gave Heroes of the Storm a try. I can see why some would enjoy it. More fun at least than Hearthstone . My 2-sentence review for you right there, lol :}
ArPharazonV: I'll mention that, with the release
ArPharazonV: several cross-game promotions between Blizzard games have been enabled.
ArPharazonV: Let's see if I can remember them all...
ArPharazonV: If you win, or have won so far, 100 hearthstone matches, you get a card-shaped mount in Heroes of the Storm. But that's not implemented yet.
ArPharazonV: If you have a level 100 character in World of Warcraft, you get a Direwolf mount in Heroes of the Storm. That one is in the game.
ArPharazonV: If you reach level 12 in Heroes of the Storm, you get a new beautifully animated cardback in Hearthstone.
ArPharazonV: And if you reach level 20 in Heroes of the Storm (both are for player-levels, not hero-level) you get a new pet in World of Warcraft, a small 3-headed grave golem pet. Very cute!
ArPharazonV: Oh, and there was some team builder thing added that you have to use through facebook for another mount in Storm, a mechanical spider. Tempted to make a fake fb-account for it.
ArPharazonV: And that's it for general HStorm release news for me!
VardaValar1: Thanks Phar

VardaValar1: Hearthstone:
VardaValar1: New Heroes have been announced.
AriehnV: I have tried it out as well .. looks quite nice
VardaValar1: Heroes of the Storm? Cool.
VardaValar1: If we don't take too long with the main meeting, maybe we can have a big discussion of Heroes in the After-meeting?

VardaValar1: Lord of the Rings Online:
ArPharazonV: Sounds good.
VardaValar1: Most of our people seem to be in this game, just not coming to AIM meetings. So hi from them.
VardaValar1: LotRO servers will be down Monday from 6am to 1pm eastern for an update. Patch notes will be available during the downtime.
ArPharazonV: Hi to those!
AriehnV: hi to all you Heroes :-)
VardaValar1: Also, Hobnangians is running. The maps that pop up every time you enter or level may be handy for using later to hop to Bree free. Or sell them for 7 copper apiece. :-)
VardaValar1: Any other gaming news?

VardaValar1: EVE folks have been getting together.

VardaValar1: SWTOR also.
VardaValar1: Arien and Sauron would be better at giving you some of that news. :-)

VardaValar1: The Diablo 3 folks are busy too, but I unfortunately have not been getting over there enough for a while. My apologies to that gang.

VardaValar1: Any other gaming news?
VardaValar1: Any other business, coments, suggestions? Relays of suggestions or howdies?

VardaValar1: Tolkien:
VardaValar1: I owe you all an rp post.

VardaValar1: For another topic,
VardaValar1: there are those that argue about whether the Hero's Journey is an actual thing that happens in myths, folklore, or major storytelling.
VardaValar1: One thing to remember is that the points mentioned for it aren't expected to all be used in every story, just some or the main ones.
VardaValar1: Here's one list of the points:
VardaValar1: I was surprised how many naysayers there are.
VardaValar1: But it seems true that for any point, many naysayers will arise. This spawns healthy thought so it's a good thing.
VardaValar1: Just a reminder not to throw out the baby with the bathwater, and remember some things are meant to be seen as *general*.
VardaValar1: The name "There and Back Again" for the Hobbit, as used by Bilbo could be seen as a short version of the Hero's Journey. :-)
ArPharazonV: "Refusal of the Call" made me think of Bilbo immediately, yes.
VardaValar1: There you go.
VardaValar1: A criticism leveled was that John Campbell didn't study up enough with real examples for this.
VardaValar1: Actually, he made a huge study. Plus he handled stories on a daily basis for many years as an editor.
VardaValar1: I'm all for criticism, but would prefer that it be made with facts in hand.
VardaValar1: Anyway, it has all seventeen points listed on that wiki mention.
VardaValar1: We can see most of these in a long work such as the Lord of the Rings, or even the Hobbit.
VardaValar1: Some of the listed items need to be looked at more closely for the actual meaning.
VardaValar1: Then they make better sense.
ArPharazonV: The temptress, yes... Rivendell's not a woman, but does seem to fit the point.
VardaValar1: Right. It says in the notes that the temptress is an idea, only sometimes an actual woman.
VardaValar1: It's a quick image for understanding.
ArPharazonV: Yes.
VardaValar1: and the Father being the powerful figure looked up to, doesn't have to be an actual parent.
ArPharazonV: This is the center point of the journey. All the previous steps have been moving into this place, all that follow will move out from it.
ArPharazonV: I'm thinking about the Council, actually.
ArPharazonV: Bunch of elders and nobles from different races saying "This is what needs to be done" and the hero going "Meh, fine, I'll go do it."
VardaValar1: Good mention, a hub area.
VardaValar1: Gets worrisome when no one will pick up the quest! Maybe we'll try again next Age, gang.
VardaValar1: They really needed Frodo.
VardaValar1: I loved that Bilbo was willing. :-)
ArPharazonV: Perhaps he figured that if he had the Ring, he'd be rejuvenated enough to go for it?
VardaValar1: The hero has to have the ability to perform as well as the spirit. Tough to find both in the same individual.
ArPharazonV: Or at least stretch out long enough to get the job done.
ArPharazonV: In this case, the spirit to get the job done was the most important ability to perform.

VardaValar1: Bilbo felt responsible. Said he started it by picking it up.
VardaValar1: But his giving Frodo legal inheritence gave Frodo a really big edge of legality, rather than just a thief in the night.
VardaValar1: Bilbo raised the boy right too.
ArPharazonV: Inherited stolen goods are still stolen, I'd say?
VardaValar1: He had a lot of input in the quest, not as visible as some.
VardaValar1: But the stealing was not by Frodo, who had it legally.
ArPharazonV: Grey area I suppose.
VardaValar1: Maybe Frodo should have returned it to Sauron. He was the legal maker and owner.
VardaValar1: Isildur took it from Sauron's hand after he fell in war, calling it wergild for his father.
ArPharazonV: Right of conquest.
ArPharazonV: And wergild, sure.
VardaValar1: So one could say Aragorn had claim to it as an inheritance from Isildur. Frodo thought he had a claim.
ArPharazonV: Sounds closest to it.
VardaValar1: Frodo thought Aragorn had a claim.
VardaValar1: But it was lost by Isildur for a seriously long time, and he was dead.
VardaValar1: Deagol had scavenger or finder's rights.
VardaValar1: Smeagol was the one that really went wrong. He killed and stole it.
AriehnV: well if sorts of right then he .. and "legally " well it was Saurons eh?
VardaValar1: Bilbo could be said to have finder's rights, barely. Should he have returned it to Gollum?
ArPharazonV: Maybe, if Gollum had been friendlier to him ;-)
VardaValar1: In a way, Frodo returned it, as he took it back to where it was made.
VardaValar1: Gollum was bad from way back. He used the Ring to blackmail others of his people.
VardaValar1: Aragorn did have a claim to it, misled Sauron into thinking he had it, and made a wonderful decoy for Frodo.
VardaValar1: So the twisted claiming mess worked to Frodo's advantage in the quest to destroy the Ring.
VardaValar1: Even Gollum's claim.
VardaValar1: We seemed to have changed topics from Hero's Journey to Ring claims. Never know what will happen. :-)
VardaValar1: Any other comments on the nutty legalities of the Ring?
VardaValar1: Did it belong to Thorin since he was leading the company when the Ring was found?
ArPharazonV: To be fair, Bilbo was separated, and it wasn't found in the Mountain.
VardaValar1: Agreed. :-)
VardaValar1: Ready to switch to After-meeting? Give Arien a chance to be here for the Heroes chat.
VardaValar1: Any other comments on Tolkien?
ArPharazonV: "The ultimate boon is the achievement of the goal of the quest. It is what the person went on the journey to get. All the previous steps serve to prepare and purify the person for this step, since in many myths the boon is something transcendent like the elixir of life itself, or a plant that supplies immortality, or the holy grail."
ArPharazonV: What's that in LotR?
AriehnV: interesting .. i ve got something a tiny bit a seperate issue
ArPharazonV: Just... saving the world? :-)
ArPharazonV: Or did Frodo get another reward, like being able to go to Valinor by boat?
ArPharazonV: Anyway, go ahead, Arien :-)
VardaValar1: Frodo was just supposed to get the Ring to Mt. Doom, and he did.
VardaValar1: The rewards were that he did gain fame, glory, got the Shire back, was Mayor, lived with his friends, and got to go to Valinor.

VardaValar1: All yours, Arien
AriehnV: all right .. I was listening to various online streams and came across a tiny gem completely unexpected
AriehnV: i was so happy about it that i had to tell Phari in game about it :-)
ArPharazonV: Ah yes! I'd forgotten :-)
AriehnV: Probably you know the link but i thought it sounded slightly familiar and it was indeed it was Papa Tolkien reciting "Namarie!" the poem of Galadriel she spoke on the swan ship just before the fellow ship left
AriehnV: the
AriehnV: link is
AriehnV: and there is also an interesting bit of information on a german website ..which you might find hard to understand but there is the full thext of the poem , the english and german translation and also the exact split about the linguistics in the poem
AriehnV: and there is always the "translate this page " function :-)
AriehnV: but its qute interesting anyway and some of you are some elven linguists anyway :-)
AriehnV: anyway here it is
VardaValar1: Thank you. :-)
AriehnV: Thats what i wanted to share with you
AriehnV: :-)
ArPharazonV: Thank you! Good to hear his voice :-)
VardaValar1: Lovely. Thank you very much, Arien. :-)
AriehnV: you are very welcome :-)
VardaValar1: *Hammer thumps the hammer pad*

VardaValar1: After-meeting
VardaValar1: Free chat. :-)

ArPharazonV: Did we want to discuss Heroes of the Storm?
VardaValar1: Now's a good time.
VardaValar1: I haven't played it, but you and Arien have.
ArPharazonV: Right. Well, it's a MOBA, as they say, multiplayer online battle arena, like League of Legends or DotA. Two teams, 5 heroes/players on each team, that have to destroy the "core" at each other's base to win, by clearing out towers and forts along the way, supporting the units that are spawned by their base, and destroying the enemy units. And kill the other team's heroes.
ArPharazonV: In Heroes of the Storm, there are a number of different maps, each with a different gimmick that can really overwhelm you if you let your enemies have their way with it first.
AriehnV: ((PS: i found a recording with tune and Clarsach
AriehnV: )
AriehnV: aye and you have to fight against npcs and players
ArPharazonV: In one map, for example, heroes have to kill skeletons and treasure chests, take the coins that are dropped, and deliver them to an undead pirate ship in the middle which will then launch devastating attacks on the enemy defenses for a short while. It takes some time out to deliver them, but if you get killed while carrying coins, those are free to be picked up by other players.
AriehnV: since you defend your base basically
ArPharazonV: There are also shrines to control, mercenary camps to "capture" so you can send the minions to aid your own units...
ArPharazonV: some places that provide vision over larger areas if you claim it...
ArPharazonV: but the goal is always the same.
ArPharazonV: Within a game, all the heroes level up from 1, depending on how much is killed or achieved, and all experience is shared equally among the team-members, so support heroes won't fall behind the killers. This is one way for one team to slightly overpower the other team, if they earn the advantage, but there's a feedback system that makes it difficult to stay more than 3 levels ahead.
ArPharazonV: There are 4 roles: Warrior, Assassin, Support and Specialist.
ArPharazonV: There are a couple of dozen heroes, each falling in one of the roles.
ArPharazonV: The heroes come from the Diablo, Warcraft and Starcraft franchises.
ArPharazonV: Mostly D3, WoW and SC2.
ArPharazonV: Heroes have some standard abilities, and a range of talents you can choose from in each map, one of the key things to master is what kind of combinations and builds you can make from the talents.
ArPharazonV: The talents come in tiers: Every few levels you have to choose one talent from a certain tier, and the other talents from that tier are then no longer accessible in that game.
ArPharazonV: Outside the individual games/battles, your heroes will also gain experience from each game, and slowly gain levels, unlocking new talents at first for every tier, and after that some cosmetic options.
ArPharazonV: So it's good to play all the heroes you've got to not only get practice with them and test out builds, but also unlock more stuff for them :-)
ArPharazonV: Let's see, what else...
ArPharazonV: most of the stuff you can buy is cosmetic, like mounts and hero-skins, and most of the cosmetic stuff has to be paid for with real money. But the heroes themselves can also be bought with the gold you earn from levelling or playing.
ArPharazonV: You also get daily quests, one each day (you can have up to 3 at a time, and they don't expire), which are the main source of income unless you play hours and hours each day.
ArPharazonV: Unlike the Hearthstone dailies, you generally don't have to win your matches, though you get more xp and gold if you do.
ArPharazonV: Instead, they are most often to play 2 games with any hero from a certain franchise, or 3 games with a hero with a certain role.
ArPharazonV: Oh, and if you don't own any heroes of your own, or would like to try something different, every week there are certain heroes available that are free to play for that week. It seems kind of random, but it usually picks the easier or medium-difficulty heroes.
ArPharazonV: The experience still stacks for them as far as I know, but it'd surprise me if you got any of the rewards for them like portraits for your account.
ArPharazonV: Hmm, what did I miss?
AriehnV: nothing as far as i know
ArPharazonV: Right! You also have a player- or account-level, which increases as you go. For these you unlock new features of the game, additional free-hero-rotation slots, and lots of gold. But obviously you can only do this once.
ArPharazonV: The cross-promotion rewards for WoW and Hearthstone are based on your account-level.
ArPharazonV: At level 10 you get a stimpack for free, doubling your experience-gain and giving you 2 and a half times as much gold for the duration of a week. You can also buy it, but not sure if you that's doable with gold.
ArPharazonV: I reached level 10 yesterday, got the stimpack, and hit level 12 later that day, so it's really useful :-)
ArPharazonV: Planning to make a lot of use of it before the week's over!
ArPharazonV: Right, that's the descriptive stuff...
ArPharazonV: Now for my opinion on it!
ArPharazonV: I didn't think I'd like this genre of gaming, but the fact that there is little pressure to win so far makes it all quite relaxed. If you need wins for that one possibly daily quest you might get, there is also a "Versus AI" mode wherein you'll play with 4 other players against a computer-led team. If you want you can do it with AI allies too, but I like playing with human allies so far.
ArPharazonV: It's a good mode for training with a new hero as well.
ArPharazonV: People seem friendly so far, not sure how that will be in the ranked leagues you unlock at much higher levels.
ArPharazonV: Not much has really changed from the open beta (at least the last week I played it) since release, and there are some technical difficulties sometimes. Yesterday afternoon there was about an hour or so when the servers were down and they were struggling to fix it.
ArPharazonV: But I'm sure that'll change over time :-)
ArPharazonV: You don't need real money to be competitive. Heroes can be bought with gold over time, and you can get very far with just a small selection of heroes.
ArPharazonV: But if you want to spice up your gaming experience, there are plenty of options for cosmetic features, like the skins and mounts mentioned.
ArPharazonV: Some of the hero-skins look quite interesting and fun!
AriehnV: Like the ship skins in Eve
ArPharazonV: Hmm, I think so, yes!
AriehnV: you can get skins from other faction ships for your own
ArPharazonV: I'm not worrying about skins and mounts right now, except for what I can get through the other games. Enjoying WoW's dire wolf so far. I just want to focus on collecting the heroes. But who knows, one day :-)
AriehnV: very good indeed
AriehnV: who knows
ArPharazonV: So anything else to add? :-)
AriehnV: Not to Heroes :-)

AriehnV: I ve got a small Eve Report again
ArPharazonV: Go for it!
AriehnV: I joined up with Sauron V on Eve online a couple of days ago for additional firepower in a quite difficult questchain .. unfortunately it was quite late and so i had to go to bed soon after since i worked the next day (unlike tomorrow)
AriehnV: he gave me the name of Gimli V s character who plays the game too .. second i ll mention it for the script
AriehnV: Hoshiko Kolchi
AriehnV: and we chatted a bit the other day
ArPharazonV: Oh, more people, great!
AriehnV: and i just saw a player with the name of Beleg Cuthalion outside the station ^^ , rings a bell somehow :-)
ArPharazonV: I wonder where that name came from? ;-)
AriehnV: Indeed ;-)
AriehnV: A newly created character
AriehnV: made today
AriehnV: interesting
VardaValar1: We just had a power outage for a few seconds. Yay for battery power for computers.
ArPharazonV: Ooh, nice. If we'd had that, I'd be gone.
ArPharazonV: Is it a laptop?
ArPharazonV: Allright! Personal gaming time.
VardaValar1: Desktop with an APC backup battery.
ArPharazonV: Oh, neat.

ArPharazonV: Flashgaming: Couple of puzzly platformers.
ArPharazonV: is not actually a level creator/editor as the name would imply, but a puzzle platformer where you have to place platforms in the level to use to get to the other side.
ArPharazonV: and is a platformer whereby you can only spend a very short time in the sun before you have to hide.
ArPharazonV: That one's quite difficult though.

ArPharazonV: Diablo 3:
ArPharazonV: Not a lot done, didn't have much time for it, but did get 4 levels on my monk. I brought it up to expert difficulty where the fights are finally getting a bit tougher.

ArPharazonV: WoW: No new pets this week, unfortunately! We did have several drop in our old-raid run, but none that were new for me. The others in our party got new pets though!
ArPharazonV: Darkmoon Faire started, I'll get the new racing achievements somewhere during the week.
ArPharazonV: Finally killed Blackhand again, once I deliver his "severed arm" for my legendary quest, I can do the final steps for this chapter and get my legendary follower!
ArPharazonV: Couple of miscellaneous achievements gotten during the apexis dailies, but nothing too special.

ArPharazonV: Heroes of the Storm: As I said, level 12 now with my account. I've also gotten Malfurion the support hero to level 6, which gives me a new portrait to use for my account. Not sure where I can use that portrait (probably the forums) but it's always nice to look like a druid :-)
ArPharazonV: I now have one hero of each role bought, which should have me set for most of the daily quests. Just missing any Starcraft 2 character, but we'll see what the cheapest and easiest is if I get that daily. If I don't get it for a while, I might actually save up for Abathur, who should be fun, if one of the most difficult in the game.
ArPharazonV: On my way to level 20 while the stimpack lasts - I want that WoW pet!
ArPharazonV: I know it's implemented already, because one in our raidgroup has it. And it's quite nice.

ArPharazonV: Hearthstone:
ArPharazonV: New season started for June, with a Darnassus card back as a reward. Looking good! Night elfy and druidy. Personally I'm just now starting to use the HStorm card back, which I'll be using for at least this month until the season ends :-)
ArPharazonV: First few heroes are starting to approach the next level. Probably some of them will have levelled up before the next meeting.
ArPharazonV: And that's it for me!

ArPharazonV: Now I'll go dive into Storm and see what daily I've got today :-)
AriehnV: Namarie Valarites :-) bed time for me
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
AriehnV has left the room.
ArPharazonV: And it seems I got the only daily that requires wins. Guess I'll head into Co-op vs AI ;-)
VardaValar1: Namarie Arien
VardaValar1: Good luck, Phar
VardaValar1: Namarie from me too. :-)
VardaValar1 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: namarie!
ArPharazonV: saving and sending transcript