June 28, 2015 Sunday Meeting
EDT (UTC/GMT - 5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
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Transcript work by Ar-Pharazon and Varda.
AriehnV, ArPharazonV, VardaValar1 (presiding)
Tolkien Site: new art from the Bohemian Weasel-(T)
Games Site: news
Topic: What happened in the 4th Age, after Aragorn became High King and Elrond and others left Middle-earth.
More on the topic
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Yay for earlybirds. :-)
VardaValar1: Aiya :-)
AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Arien :-)
VardaValar1: Going to start shortly
VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Thank you both for being here. :-)
VardaValar1: Tolkien Site has new artwork from the Bohemian Weasel-(T), set in the time when the Fellowship was in Lothlorien.
VardaValar1: "Lothlorien - tree city of the elves."
VardaValar1: http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/art/gallery/BohemianWeasel/places/Lorien/lotr-2010-lorie n-imbles_tree_city.jpg
VardaValar1: "The mirror of Galadriel - will you look?"
VardaValar1: Bit of an arch look there.
VardaValar1: "The parting gifts of Galadriel"
VardaValar1: "Galadriel - ‘Namįriė.’"
VardaValar1: The Games Site has fresh gaming news.
VardaValar1: For the News page, feel free to email me something you'd
like to add to the news. All members can be reporters for Tolkien and
VardaValar1: World of WarCraft:
VardaValar1: Patch 6.2: Fury of Hellfire is out. Check out the Survival Guide and Feature Overview.
VardaValar1: See highlights of the Timewalking dungeons: The Slave-Pens and The Shattered Halls.
VardaValar1: Don't forget to check on the latest hotfixes.
VardaValar1: StarCraft 2:
VardaValar1: See the latest Legacy of the Void Beta balance update.
VardaValar1: Diablo 3:
VardaValar1: Coming to a PTR near you: Patch 2.3.0. Check out the preview.
VardaValar1: Heroes of the Storm:
VardaValar1: The PTR is now live. Check out the patch notes. You can also check out the developer insights on the patch.
VardaValar1: StarCraft/BroodWar: played this week by Fangorn, Sauron, and Varda.
AriehnV: I really like these sketches they are great
VardaValar1: Agreed. There's a reason she was picked to do those cards. :-)
VardaValar1: EVE Online: Sauron's been playing quite a bit.
VardaValar1: Any other mentions? We aren't hearing much from folks in other games.
ArPharazonV: Just the ones you mentioned already, mainly!
VardaValar1: I assume the Guild Wars 2 gang are still going as strong as always.
ArPharazonV: Oh, new Hearthstone season starting in a few days! Wonder what the new card back will be.
VardaValar1: Thanks :-)
VardaValar1: Any other gaming comments, suggestions for gaming or the site?
VardaValar1: Gorlm-(V) suggested asking what
happened in the 4th Age, after Aragorn became High King and Elrond and
others left Middle-earth.
ArPharazonV: Well, he had a kid, maybe more, and many lines of kings descended from him as I recall.
VardaValar1: Aragorn? Aye he had one son who became king after him and many daughters.
ArPharazonV: The unfinished fourth age story had a new shadow creeping
in on Gondor, as the orcs turned to legend, people became complacent,
and I think I remember something about a cult or gang based on the orc
VardaValar1: The son's name was Eldarion, the daughters' names were not given that I can find.
ArPharazonV: I feel sorry for the boy, surrounded by so many sisters.
VardaValar1: I wonder about the Blue Wizard cults, probably still active.
VardaValar1: Aye :-)
VardaValar1: Lots of warriors around too though.
ArPharazonV: Aragorn was still busy struggling with the harad.
ArPharazonV: And trying to get Arnor back in order. Probably some bands running around there too.
VardaValar1: Not all the orcs would have been wiped out either.
VardaValar1: And what about the dragons that Smaug came from in the mountains up north?
ArPharazonV: If they're smart, they'll stay where they are.
VardaValar1: Aragorn and Eomer rode together to handle fighting.
VardaValar1: heh, good idea.
VardaValar1: and cold and fire drakes were around.
VardaValar1: Ruling families would be jostling to make wedding arrangements with Aragorn's children.
VardaValar1: Some Mirkwood elves moved with Legolas to make a colony in Ithilien.
VardaValar1: Some dwarves moved with Gimil to the Glittering Caves in Rohan.
VardaValar1: That suggests a possible pool of fighters to help Aragorn at times in both places.
VardaValar1: We know both of those groups helped the rebuilding of Minas Tirith.
ArPharazonV: Rohan should have some more peace, no wonder they could afford going abroad with Aragorn.
VardaValar1: In the Histories of Middle-earth 12: The Peoples of Middle-earth,
VardaValar1: we have the notes about the potential book that could have come after the LotR, in the chapter The New Shadow.
VardaValar1: It seems to have been set 100 years after the downfall of Sauron, but JRRT found it both sinister and depressing.
ArPharazonV: Hmm, I tried to summarize it earlier.
VardaValar1: o ok, pardon.
ArPharazonV: But feel free to correct it!
VardaValar1: You were right, of course. It says it would have just been
a thriller, where Gondorian boys were playing at being Orcs and doing
damage. Finding the plot, its discovery, and overthrow.
ArPharazonV: not so much a cult then
VardaValar1: Says in those times, there would have been secret societies practicing dark cults, and orc-cults among adolescents.
ArPharazonV: There we go!
VardaValar1: I'd guess that finding out about the boys' cults would
lead them to find the ones practiced by adults. It would have been
VardaValar1: The character was Borlas, younger son of Beregond.
ArPharazonV: 100 years after?
VardaValar1: A later bit says 105 years after
VardaValar1: They talk about the cutting down of trees as part of it.
VardaValar1: I'd expect that would cause elf involvement too.
ArPharazonV: Elves aren't pleased about that, no.
VardaValar1: There are whispers of the name, Herumor.
VardaValar1: JRRT seemed to lose interest because the mythological parts had already been settled with Sauron.
VardaValar1: I'll bet we could come up with more. :-)
VardaValar1: of the mythological parts, aka Valar and Maiar involvement.
ArPharazonV: The story has to end at some point, even if the history
continues. It somehow felt fitting to me that this story, showing that
life goes on beyond the mythical, never received its ending.
VardaValar1: True. It was supposed to be our pre-history.
VardaValar1: We're still living the story ourselves.
VardaValar1: It would have moved forward into the far future instead of pre-history.
ArPharazonV: If it went on for long enough, sure :-)
ArPharazonV: hmm, give me a few minutes, my headphones just broke
VardaValar1: The time of the new Arda, the ending of ours, would be a huge myth time.
VardaValar1: The Dagor Dagorath would be a great tale to tell.
VardaValar1: Here's a bit about it:
VardaValar1: From Unfinished Tales:
VardaValar1: Manwe will not descend
from the Mountain until the Dagor Dagorath, and the coming of the End,
when Melkor returns. To the overthrow of Morgoth he sent his herald
Eonwe. To the defeat of Sauron would he not then send some lesser (but
mighty) spirit of the angelic people, one coeval and equal, doubtless,
with Sauron in their beginnings, but not more? Olorin was his name. But
of Olorin we shall never know more than he revealed in Gandalf.
ArPharazonV: right, just testing if I've got left and right correctly...
ArPharazonV: Looks like it's marked the wrong way on the headphones themselves...
VardaValar1: Mark it "the other left"
ArPharazonV: If I recall, Turin and Nienor would also participate in that fight?
VardaValar1: and some Ar-Pharazon guy and his people are turned loose with their chance to decide on which side they will fight.
ArPharazonV: I'd like to think we'd choose the right side.
ArPharazonV: If Turin can do it, so can I.
VardaValar1: There you go!
VardaValar1: Melkor returns from the Void, so Manwe comes down from the
mountain. We have a titanic battle, in which their folk will surely
VardaValar1: Afterwards, Arda is re-made. This suggests that the old
Arda may be wiped out in that battle, or in really bad condition.
ArPharazonV: "Let's take this rock from Old Arda here, and put it over here in the New Arda... right, doesn't that look nice?"
VardaValar1: hehe - probably
VardaValar1: This suggests Morgoth, the nihilist, will have his
destructive needs satisfied, but then have to live beyond it, forcing
him to think again.
VardaValar1: This is pure speculation by me.
ArPharazonV: Ah, but if the new Arda is made of the remains of the old Arda, his needs will never be fulfilled.
VardaValar1: It actually passes away. A new one is built from singing aright.
VardaValar1: I guess it ends as thoroughly as the end of a song.
ArPharazonV: Hmm, that's too bad. No traces left?
VardaValar1: The lives that were there would be left. I don't know, needs more digging to be certain.
VardaValar1: Arda's remaking includes work by Aule/Mahal with help from the dwarves.
VardaValar1: I wonder if it would be another vision that has to be made solid by work, the way the first was.
VardaValar1: If it has to be "sung aright", that's another song and possibly a new vision.
ArPharazonV: Built on the memory of the old, then.
ArPharazonV: I assume they incorporate their memories of the old into the new song.
VardaValar1: Here's another article. The last one was by me, this one is by Eonwe:
VardaValar1: Fionwe is a name of Eonwe
VardaValar1: That's the last battle itself, not so much the new Arda
VardaValar1: But that would be a huge mythological story that JRRT could have written. :-)
ArPharazonV: He did, in parts, over various books.
ArPharazonV: Interesting to puzzle it all together.
VardaValar1: Aye to that.
VardaValar1: Ilinsor is Tilion, steersman of the Moon.
AriehnV: Another version is
completely different. For 'tis said that ere the end Melko shall in
somewise contrive a quarrel between moon and sun, and Ilinsor shall
seek to follow Urwendi through the gates, and when they are gone the
gates of both east and west shall be destroyed, and Urwendi and Ilinsor
shall be lost. So shall it be that Fionwė Urion, the son of Manwe, of
love for Urwendi, shall in the end be Melkor's bane, and shall destroy
the world to destroy his foe, and so shall all things then be rolled
away. Turambar indeed shall stand beside Fionwe in the Great Wrack, and
Melko and his drakes shall curse the sword of the Mormakil.
AriehnV: interesting this
VardaValar1: Aye. :-)
ArPharazonV: So, Arien...
VardaValar1: Urwendi being Arien. :-)
ArPharazonV: Eonwe's in love with you?
AriehnV: seems like it
VardaValar1: Now we know!
VardaValar1: In another version, the love is that they are brother and
sister. [correction: Eonwe/Fionwe and Ilmare were brother and sister in
an early version. Fionwe/Eonwe's love for Urwendi/Arien was romantic.]
AriehnV: and .. hehe from what i understand because Illinsor follows
through the gate after the sun Melkor cant follow and be destroyed by
Eonwe because he caused this quarrel?
ArPharazonV: Well, it doesn't say that the gates are destroyed *because* you both went through it.
VardaValar1: And somehow Manwe comes down from the mountain during this mess and tanks Morgoth.
VardaValar1: That would help it make sense for how the others can go after Morgoth and not be destroyed.
VardaValar1: We know Tilion had romantic love for Arien.
VardaValar1: Ok, lots to play with to make a story. :-)
VardaValar1: *picks up a hammer that Aule left lying around*
VardaValar1: *tough hefting this one*
AriehnV: *lets ray rlare on it in foreshadow .. err foreglare of doom"
VardaValar1: *glues the planet back together in a hurry, along the earthquake cracks*
VardaValar1: Free chat!
VardaValar1: Hey, when you build stars, repairing a planet before it's too far along might be possible?
VardaValar1: Manwe might be ticked if it broke early.
ArPharazonV: It would save us all a bit of waiting, though.
VardaValar1: Oh, that Eonwe article was by the previous, not current Eonwe.
ArPharazonV: Fionwe, then :-)
VardaValar1: Good way to think of it. :-)
ArPharazonV: Hwell, aftermeeting, so personal gaming time!
ArPharazonV: Hmm, for flashgaming I'll give a couple of rather different puzzle games.
ArPharazonV: http://www.kongregate.com/games/NewStage/werebox-2 is a puzzle game where you turn boxes into spheres and the other way around to get the objective of the level done.
is a platform puzzle game where you play on the sides of a cube and
have to flip the cube to get the levels done. Can take some time to
figure out :-)
ArPharazonV: For Heroes of the Storm..
not much news, just doing some dailies and levelling some heroes.
Haven't bought any new ones for a while, takes a while to save up.
ArPharazonV: I'm getting better at some of them, though, and have taken
to writing down the talent-combinations that serve me best for each
specific hero. I'm sure that will be useful as my arsenal of heroes
grows and grows :-)
ArPharazonV: Diablo 3: Only 4 levels gained on my seasonal monk, am level 59 now. I hope that next weekend works out better :-)
ArPharazonV: Hearthstone: All
classes but one at level 35 now, and the last one is just a bit away
from gaining that level. No rewards at 35, but still, it brings me
closer to the next one :-)
ArPharazonV: World of Warcraft:
ArPharazonV: New pet gained from the old raids, a small succubus pet
from the Black Temple. I've also finished getting all the new stuff
from the Midsummer Festival, including yet another pet, a lava spider.
ArPharazonV: With the patch came a new raid instance, and we're doing
well on normal difficulty so far! First 7 bosses, out of 13, killed
ArPharazonV: The new bossfights are quite fun so far, at least as tank :-)
ArPharazonV: Patch also came with a new worldboss, Kazzak, returning
after many years; the last time we got to kill him was in the first
ArPharazonV: Not too difficult to fight, but can give good gear.
ArPharazonV: Otherwise I have not really touched the new content yet.
Haven't built a shipyard, am not questing in Tanaan yet. I'm actually
just working on some older stuff from this expansion, and got my last
achievement from the Stables, which got me a new wolf-mount. Next
project will be all the stuff from the Gearworks, which I put in place
of the stables. I'll keep you up to date on how my progress is going!
ArPharazonV: I quite refined my to-do list with the new content for
this patch, making sure to plan my garrison buildings for when they are
most effective. I'm sure it'll progress nicely!
ArPharazonV: And that's my news for this week.
ArPharazonV: I think I'll head into Hearthstone now and get that last class to 35 :-)
VardaValar1: Thank you, Phar. :-)
VardaValar1: Go go! And good luck. :-)
VardaValar1: I'll go make supper. :-)
VardaValar1 has left the room.
AriehnV: Naarie all :-)
AriehnV has left the room.