Valar Guild

July 5, 2015 Sunday Meeting

5pm EDT (UTC/GMT - 5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by
Ar-Pharazon and Varda.

Attending: (4)
    AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Indis-(V)/karakedi25, VardaValar1 (presiding)

Meeting begins
    Tolkien Site: new art from the Bohemian Weasel-(T)
       The art generated Tolkien discussion.
    Games Site: news
    LotROCon IV
    Forum rp
    Most of the Tolkien chat happened during Web.
    More on the rp

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Phar :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Arien :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
AriehnV: Aiya Varda and Phari :-)
VardaValar1: Pulled out of LotRO, inviting
ArPharazonV: Still in WoW myself. I started the heirloom coin questline thing, so I have to do a random heroic still :-)
VardaValar1: Cool
VardaValar1: My next part in LotRO would be too active

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Membership:
VardaValar1: Saw Boromir on LotRO for the first time since 2011 or 2012. :-)
VardaValar1: Boromir-(V) I mean.

VardaValar1: Web:
VardaValar1: Tolkien Site / Art:
VardaValar1: From the Bohemian Weasel-(T):
VardaValar1: "The Pillars of the Kings"
VardaValar1: otrm2-123_Argonath.jpg
VardaValar1: "I would have gone with you to the end" Aragorn's goodbye to Frodo.
VardaValar1: 2-aug20-frodonaragorn_goodbye.jpg
ArPharazonV: That's movie-only, right?
ArPharazonV: (am I still here?)
VardaValar1: I had to look it up, suddenly unsure. Aye, movie-only.
VardaValar1: Guess I'd better read the books straight through again. :-)
ArPharazonV: If I recall, no one of the Fellowship saw Frodo after fled from Boromir, except Sam who was waiting for him by the boats.
ArPharazonV: *after he
VardaValar1: Aragorn went to look for Frodo, with Sam following. Sam couldn't keep up, so he thought about it and figured where to go, back to the boats.
VardaValar1: Sam saw a boat leaving and went after it.
PallandoValar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: He was trying to grab the boat as it left the bank. But he missed and fell in.
VardaValar1: Missed it by a yard.
PallandoValar: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya!
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
VardaValar1: He fell in deep swift water, not that calm water in the movie.
VardaValar1: Frodo pulled him up by the hair. ouch
VardaValar1: Then he used his hand.
VardaValar1: Sam couldn't see the hand.
VardaValar1: Frodo pulled Sam up to the side of the boat to hold on.
VardaValar1: Frodo paddled back to shore.
VardaValar1: They argued briefly, but Frodo agreed to take Sam along.
VardaValar1: Sam grabbed his pack then.
VardaValar1: spare blanket, more food.
VardaValar1: Then they left together.
AriehnV has left the room.
AriehnV has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Yeah, that was... kinda odd in the movie, I think... they didn't go back to pick up extra supplies for Sam, anyway.
AriehnV: aiya Pallando :-)
VardaValar1: Yep, my memory was being overwritten by the movie.
VardaValar1: Wasn't Sam wearing his pack in the movie?
ArPharazonV: No wonder he was sinking.
VardaValar1: Welcome back, Arien.
ArPharazonV: All that cookery.
VardaValar1: That could sink anyone. :-)
VardaValar1: Thanks, glad you called that one out.

VardaValar1: The next pictures are after Boromir redeems himself, trying to protect Merry and Pippin.
VardaValar1: That wasn't wasted effort, as he did redeem himself, and he made the two hobbits appear far more important.
VardaValar1: As if one really was the Ringbearer.
VardaValar1: That helped keep the search off of Frodo and Sam effectively. Helped save Middle-earth.
VardaValar1: Here's a picture of Aragorn saying goodbye to Boromir:
VardaValar1: 2-aug24-beatpeace_Aragorn.jpg

VardaValar1: Legolas, seeing Aragorn and Boromir:
VardaValar1: ps-lotrm2-139_Legolas_alas_Boromir.jpg
VardaValar1: Aragorn puts on Boromir's bracers, lot of symbolism there:
VardaValar1: 2-aug25-bracersofgondor_Aragorn.jpg
VardaValar1: ‘Leave all that can be spared behind. We travel light.’
ArPharazonV: I remember the commentary that went with Legolas' look there.
VardaValar1: What was it?
ArPharazonV: Something about being unfamiliar with death and the sadness that comes with it.
ArPharazonV: Or was that for Gandalf's death? Not sure now.
VardaValar1: Aye, you were right the first time.
ArPharazonV: That's why he looks slightly confused there.
VardaValar1: The movie was trying to show him from the elf's point of view, where you meet again in Valinor, not completely gone.
VardaValar1: But humans leave Arda completely to an unknown fate.
VardaValar1: Legolas in the books was a warrior, but not usually around humans. Losing orcs to nowhwere was no bid deal. Elves he would see again eventually, and knew where they had gone.
ArPharazonV: If Orcs were bred from Elves...
VardaValar1: The books don't tell us much about the emotional lives of the characters, making them seem pretty hardened.
ArPharazonV: would that mean they went to Mandos?
VardaValar1: But corrupted so much that apparently they were gone completely.
VardaValar1: The oldest orcs were from elves, maybe some new ones now and then. Most bred in normal fashion to make more orcs. No pod people.
VardaValar1: So maybe the original orcs made from elves had some hope, none mentioned though. Left for speculation?
ArPharazonV: Might be.
VardaValar1: If they went to Mandos, they would be in for a long stay, and needed to show remorse before coming out of there.
VardaValar1: If they had no remorse to find, they might not make it as far as Mandos?
ArPharazonV: Mandos would need to expand.
ArPharazonV: Eh, if Melkor got himself released...
VardaValar1: That was a tad different. :-)
ArPharazonV: You mean they weren't as gullible after that? ;-)
VardaValar1: Mandos never was gullible about it.
VardaValar1: Manwe had to learn the hard way, too alien to his thought processes.
VardaValar1: and it was his brother in the mind of Eru.
VardaValar1: Mandos had seen Melkor in solitary confinement for three ages.
ArPharazonV: Might work for the orcs too.
ArPharazonV: Although, to put them all solitary..
ArPharazonV: He would *really* have to expand.
AriehnV: so chained aka held seperate from the Elves i would think
VardaValar1: Manwe learned from that experience, since he's now waiting for Melkor to come back and ready to fight him when he does.
VardaValar1: No lack of room in Valinor. :-)
ArPharazonV: especially when digging down
VardaValar1: Melkor claimed that he was reformed, asked to return as the least in Valinor, did much good for the people there when confined to the area.
VardaValar1: heh
VardaValar1: How are you doing down there, Golden One?
VardaValar1: Melkor said he would heal most of the hurts that he had caused to Middle-earth.
VardaValar1: Nienna asked for Melkor's release. Mandos stayed silent, Ulmo was not deceived, Tulkas held a grudge. None argued with Manwe after he made his decision, because they were loyal. But he was watched.
VardaValar1: Found this in "of Feanor".
VardaValar1: near the end of the chapter.
VardaValar1: (sometimes books are faster then digging through the internet, sometimes not)
karakedi25 has entered the room.
karakedi25: aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya Indis. Sorry you missed quite a bit of unexpected Tolkien chat brought on by the pictures.
VardaValar1: Got into where do orcs go after death.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
VardaValar1: As long as they're out of our hair... ;-)
karakedi25: The ground, I assume. Tolkien never indicated that they had anything like a soul.
VardaValar1: The later ones that were born from orcs, I'd be inclined to agree.
VardaValar1: What about the corrupted elves?
karakedi25: he waffled on corrupted elves,so it remains ambiguous
VardaValar1: Did the souls become too corrupt to bring back as well? That could explain the lack of souls in the young ones.
VardaValar1: Maybe they couldn't share the soul with the young orcs.
VardaValar1: Feanor's mother put too much of hers into Feanor.
ArPharazonV: Too diluted?
karakedi25: I think Tolkien regretted having said that orcs came from corrupted elves
ArPharazonV: Well it was a pretty big plot point that Melkor could not create anything himself, only corrupt.
VardaValar1: Aye, but he never really gave us anything better, so we who are trying to work with what we have must speculate a bit.
ArPharazonV: If not orcs, then what?
ArPharazonV: *If not elves
VardaValar1: Man was one of those possibilities, due to coming up under Melkor's influence in the east.
AriehnV: indeed Melkor could not create only imitate at first and then mock as Morgoth
karakedi25: good question, since there were no Men at the time of
karakedi25: Cuivienen.
ArPharazonV: What Indis said.
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: It was the other offered origin.
ArPharazonV: It would mean there were no orcs until the rising of the sun.
VardaValar1: We do know that the elves that were afraid of Orome and ran, and generally lesser elves, were caught and enslaved.
ArPharazonV: Removing the Orcs from the first two battles of Beleriand, at least.
VardaValar1: Those with enough courage/curiosity not to run from Orome remained. Had early elf culling.
VardaValar1: We really are left with elves as the first orcs, one of the greatest evils of Morgoth's doing.
VardaValar1: It helps explain the extreme feelings of elves and orcs encountering each other.
karakedi25: Given the nature of elves, it is hard to believe that they could be corrupted to the point of soullessness
VardaValar1: Aye, so those earliest ones might have had some fea left for redemption, but not enough to give of themselves to baby orcs.
VardaValar1: Over a really long time, maybe the fear were corrupted that much, say for an ancient orc.
VardaValar1: Killing them early might have been a kindness, give them a chance.
ArPharazonV: Aye, perhaps. But by the time Melkor was done with them enough to let them run wild, maybe it was already too late.
VardaValar1: Aye, might be why they were allowed out.
VardaValar1: (rp forum thought. Maybe our sorceror is hoping to use Mirkwood elves for new orcs or other. Pretty isolated from other elves from the start.)
VardaValar1: (might not be able to work against a dwarf in the party)
ArPharazonV: Would be interesting!
AriehnV: hehe hurray for dwarves and their hard heads and minds
VardaValar1: (could explain a bit of what is going on. and Frali may now be immunized)
AriehnV: i wonder whether they would make very tough orcs though ^^
AriehnV: tough and small
VardaValar1: Dwarves could only be corrupted with a love of gold, so I think they would be immune. Frali was young and needed a dose of vaccine, maybe.
VardaValar1: Frali should have been the safest, maybe why Estarion tossed the item to him, not realizing the youth would be a problem. We don't know how much Estarion knew, or why he came to us.
VardaValar1: He may have had an inkling and been after that object.
VardaValar1: The joy of reverse engineering a story. :-)
ArPharazonV: Dwarves were tough fighters, would make tough orcs.
ArPharazonV: Orcs with beards.
VardaValar1: Any other comments before shifting to Gaming?
VardaValar1: Hmm, so watch out for bearded small orcs!
ArPharazonV: Yep!
VardaValar1: Really don't think it would fit Tolkien for the dwarves to be orcs.
ArPharazonV: Was that the last picture?
VardaValar1: Aye, it was.
VardaValar1: Still on the topic of the rp, I had forgotten that I had already done a post bringing us to Elrond.
VardaValar1: I sent an email to Eonwe just before the meeting asking him to take Elrond's part in this next part.
VardaValar1: Just before the meeting by quite a few hours, but he's at work so it's about the same.

VardaValar1: Ok, on to Gaming, with help from the news posted by Eonwe. Feel free to send news to Eonwe for gaming or me for Tolkien. :-)
VardaValar1: We can use reporters!
VardaValar1: Gaming:
VardaValar1: World of WarCraft:
VardaValar1: See what's going on this month in WoW.
VardaValar1: Warlords PvP Season 2 begins.
VardaValar1: See highlights of the Timewalking dungeon: Ahn'Kahet.
VardaValar1: See what Blizzard says are Azeroth's Six Best Beaches.
VardaValar1: Don't forget to check on the latest hotfixes.
VardaValar1: Anything else general about WoW?
VardaValar1: Diablo 3:
VardaValar1: Patch 2.3.0 is on the PTR. Check out the Patch notes.
VardaValar1: Heroes of the Storm:
VardaValar1: A patch came out this week, which included the new map Eternal Conflict.
VardaValar1: LotRO:
ArPharazonV: Hadn't seen those beaches yet. Probably on the US blog only.
VardaValar1: Weatherstock is coming up soon for the Landroval server and many folks from other servers have made characters there to attend.
VardaValar1: It's a huge player-run music event where all the big bands take turns playing, usually in matching outfits and with band names.
VardaValar1: Oh, Phar, in Kongregate, Sauron said he was playing Infectionator 2, where the player is the zombie infecting the world.
ArPharazonV: Ah, those games are fun!
VardaValar1: Any other general gaming news?
AriehnV: uhm not really
VardaValar1: ok :-)
AriehnV: been playing Eve and Archeage
VardaValar1: Oh right, Sauron and Arien play Eve Online.
AriehnV: quite funny to play this little Japanese game which has quite an intriguing lore ^^
AriehnV: and yes we do
VardaValar1: Pallando, you've finally got some regular Valarites in Eve after all this time. :-)
VardaValar1: Go ahead, Arien.
VardaValar1: (Oh, more on LotRO, we had a hotfix Tuesday)
AriehnV: its a free to play game that has come from a Japanese collaboration with Trion games which is the sae guys that are behind Rift
AriehnV: It is about two factions where the partnered races are at best in a tenacious piece with some underlying mistrusting faction and a hero that that has a hidden grudge against someone of that other race .. all revealed in impressive cinematics
AriehnV: you can pay subscription and get a lot of goodies you dont really need for gameplay as such , but things like private gardens where people cant steal crop or lifestock and private homes
AriehnV: and there is of course the sea combat side as well .. so you can play as pirate on naval ships but you do get publically exposed by the game or if another player discovers it and the guilty party can be tried just as people who actually start a guild war
ArPharazonV: "Here, have a free multiplayer game, but if you don't want to be bothered by other people, you can pay money!"
AriehnV: I think its aimed at younger folk but fun for oldies as well , and yes haha a bit like that :-)
AriehnV: as for classes .. they seem to be made up out of three skillsets .. like archery .. battlerage .. sorcery .. auramancy and shadowplay and one skillset unlocking at levels one - five and ten .. the compination deterines the final class
AriehnV: mounts unlock at level ten as well .and there is a free quest that gets you one
AriehnV: four races , two continents and a third continent to reconquer by each of the alliances made up by the two races in each faction .. confused?
ArPharazonV: I've seen worse :-)
AriehnV: as in eve there is a way to play it more pve or pvp .. depending on what each player likes .. well if anyone is interested its worth trying out maybe :-)
VardaValar1: Thanks for the review, Arien. :-)
VardaValar1: Any other business, comments, suggestions, people needing an officer to hop into a game to help out or invite? (Nob? Are you there, Nob?)
AriehnV: and gettin a link for you as well hold on
AriehnV: there
VardaValar1: Thanks!

VardaValar1: Tolkien:
VardaValar1: We pretty much discussed Tolkien and had a chat back in Web news, but I have one thing left.
VardaValar1: LOTROcon IV will be in Ohio, July 25. Thanks to Benjimir, leader of The Sons of Numenor on the LotRO Landroval server for the information.
VardaValar1: He's someone I chat with fairly often on LotRO, sometimes game with.
VardaValar1: He set up this con, says he's a bit behind in the webwork but getting it more up to date.

VardaValar1: Any more comments on the rp, Tolkien Moments, or discussion suggestions?
VardaValar1: Calion may be called on before long to give his report to Elrond.
AriehnV: wish i had the money to get to that .. sounds fun and Lake Erie .. yeah sounds attractive :-)
ArPharazonV: I think Calion can give a vague summary like the one that's been posted before. Might give it "offscreen", even.
VardaValar1: Aye to that. Should be an easy post. :-)
VardaValar1: As a Mirkwood noble, Calion might also feel like making suggestions, like, can we go now? :-)
VardaValar1: Any other comments?
VardaValar1: Here's hoping our folks in the USA had a happy July 4th. :-)
ArPharazonV: Congrats!
VardaValar1: *picks up hammer*
VardaValar1: *thud*
VardaValar1: *eyes hammer. Not a dud, just a hammer. How odd.*
AriehnV: happy July the fourth :-)
VardaValar1: *replaces hammer in the shelf, the shelf falls down promptly*

VardaValar1: After-meeting
VardaValar1: Free chat. :-)
ArPharazonV: Right. Came across a bunch of games for my flashgaming that I hadn't done before, or which were simply new.
ArPharazonV: In true LotR style, you may ask me for one..
ArPharazonV: and I'll give ye three :P
AriehnV has left the room.
AriehnV has entered the room.
AriehnV: right network starts going again .. groan
ArPharazonV: is a defense game where, as the name suggests, each level is you as a hacker facing another hacker, each one putting out viruses and defending from them, and the goal is to overwhelm your enemy before they overwhelm you.
ArPharazonV: Ouch :-(
ArPharazonV: is one in a fun series where you get a blank ball and have to customize it with paints and tools to get a certain result.
VardaValar1: Hope they get that fixed for you, Arien. Sauron hopes it even more. :-)
VardaValar1: Which just sounds wrong.
ArPharazonV: hehe
AriehnV has left the room.
AriehnV has entered the room.

AriehnV: Right .. i ll take the hint and go to bed .. last night was very short
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
ArPharazonV: Hope you sleep better this time!
AriehnV: and have to get up quite early
AriehnV: thanks i should hope so .. and it was my own fault Phari .. sort of .. we were trying to support and distract a mate who is going through a tough time at the moment
ArPharazonV: Ah, sounds like it was necessary!
AriehnV: but then my father called at nine this morning :-P
ArPharazonV: heh

karakedi25: Me too. I leave for the West Coast tomorrow, early, and I'll be away for 2 weeks.
ArPharazonV: Busy times ahead.
AriehnV: All right .. enjoy Indis :-) we will miss you
karakedi25: I'll be on from time to time, just can't predict when
AriehnV: Namarie all :-)
ArPharazonV: good luck then!
ArPharazonV: Namarie
AriehnV has left the room.
ArPharazonV: And for the third game!
karakedi25: and namarie
VardaValar1: Namarie Indis :-)
karakedi25 has left the room.

ArPharazonV: is a pretty physics puzzler where you have to use ladybugs to pull away obstacles, freeing up lanterns, and using fireflies to bring those lanterns up and lighting them at the top of the level.
VardaValar1: Two weeks. Hope she took her laptop.
ArPharazonV: Probably sounds more complicated than it really is :-)
ArPharazonV: hehe
ArPharazonV: Namarie Indis!
VardaValar1: Silly me, of course she took it.
ArPharazonV: Right! And that was the flashgaming for this week

ArPharazonV: Diablo 3: level 63 now on my season monk, another 4 levels gained; at this rate I should have it in 2 weeks. End of season has not yet been announced so I'm sure I'll have plenty of time!
ArPharazonV: Hearthstone: Pushing all my level 35 classes further. New season has started: July season comes with a troll-themed card back, looking quite nice!
ArPharazonV: Heroes of the Storm: Made it to level 26 now as my overall level. Gotten over 10k again so I can buy another hero, but not yet decided on which one I'll buy.
ArPharazonV: did get Abathur to level 6, which means a new portrait for me to use :-)
ArPharazonV: And had a match this week where I ended up with the most siege damage, most hero damage and biggest experience-contribution of the entire time, so basically a full sweep! When properly used, Aba can be so good.
ArPharazonV: And with a good amount of luck, of course.
ArPharazonV: *the entire team
ArPharazonV: Hmm, that just leaves WoW I guess.
ArPharazonV: We got 8 out of the 13 bosses in Hellfire Citadel down on normal difficulty in the first week of the patch, and this week we tried heroic, and only got one boss down so far... so you see how much more difficult heroic can be :-)
ArPharazonV: The old petraids didn't get a new pet for me personally, but we got our last pet needed from the Sunwell, so we can skip that now.
ArPharazonV: Other than that, I got a whole list of small things done that had been on my todo-list for a long time :-)
ArPharazonV: I got several achievements done in the areas for the daily apexis quests, I maxed out my gearworks and got the achievement for that, I maxed out my mine, garden, tannery and storehouse, getting me the "master builder" achievement for the garrison...
ArPharazonV: I started the Brawlers Guild fights again, stopping one boss before the one I need to kill to get the gnoll follower. When I have room to add him, I'll finish that fight :-)
ArPharazonV: Added a few new followers before that, for 5000 gold each
ArPharazonV: And for the next step I'm planning on doing the quest to get Nat Pagle as a follower, and will start collecting fishing coins to use as currency to buy a bunch of pets and mount from him :-)
ArPharazonV: And that's it for my gaming news!
ArPharazonV: Oh! I also started the Heirloom questline starting in my garrison, and have been doing random heroic instances to progress on that. Seems to go quickly enough.
ArPharazonV: Also heirloom-related, I bought enough heirlooms to reach 35, and earn a special mount for my troubles :-)
ArPharazonV: And *that* is it.
VardaValar1: Thanks Phar :-)