Valar Guild

May 4, 2014 Sunday Meeting

5pm EDT (UTC/GMT - 5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by
Ar-Pharazon and Varda.

Attending: (5)
    AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Indis-(V)/karakedi25, Nar-(V)/mcioutpost, VardaValar1 (presiding)

Meeting begins
    Games Site
    I Love Traffic
    Elder Scrolls Online
    The Visitor: Massacre at Camp Happy
    Chat topic: Some critics say JRRT didn't show character personality.
    Balrog: sentient or animal?

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
VardaValar1: Aiya Golden One :-)
VardaValar1: On one clock it says we have another seven minutes, on another it says right now. What does yours say?
ArPharazonV: 6 minutes!
ArPharazonV: 5 minutes and a bit according to my watch
VardaValar1: ok, thanks
mcioutpost has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Nar :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
mcioutpost: Aiya - only took a year to get the self invite right :-)
VardaValar1: Congrats! Some never do. :-)
VardaValar1: Huge help to be able to do that.
ArPharazonV: Great! Less work for us? ;-)
VardaValar1: Also, no worries about if someone notices you're on, or crossed up double and triple conflicting invitations
VardaValar1: Invites sent that I can see. Suspect some AIM names may need updating on my list
VardaValar1: Any sign of Arien or Fladrif on your end, Phar?
ArPharazonV: I just poked Arien in WoW, not sure if she'll respond.
VardaValar1: Thanks!
ArPharazonV: No Fladrif.
VardaValar1: aww ok

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: A star shines on the hour of our meeting.
VardaValar1: We have the meeting so that we may see each other across all platforms and games, and so that an officer is available to everyone at least once a week for whatever you may need.
VardaValar1: Also for fun. :-)
VardaValar1: Gaming chat and Tolkien chat.

VardaValar1: Web:
AriehnV has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: There she is!
VardaValar1: Eonwe is keeping up with the Games Site, something to help add news to, and to enjoy reading.
mcioutpost has left the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Sunshine!
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
mcioutpost has entered the room.
VardaValar1: And Nar crashed as Arien entered. Wonder if that's related.
VardaValar1: Welcome back. :-)
VardaValar1: Aiyata
VardaValar1: Any other Membership or Web news?
AriehnV: lol meteoric effect so to say?
ArPharazonV: my birthday in 2 days?
AriehnV: aiya all
VardaValar1: That is news! Happy birthday to the Golden One! May the stars shine joy to you on your special day.
VardaValar1: Aiya Sunshine. : )
ArPharazonV: I hope so!
VardaValar1: Hear that star guys? You have a job to do.
VardaValar1: I hope you are all well, your computers are behaving, and you and your families enjoy good health.
VardaValar1: The baby future gamer burbles his greeting to you.

VardaValar1: Gaming:
VardaValar1: Do check out the now frequently updated Games Site sometimes:
VardaValar1: Either popping in from our main page or a link:
VardaValar1: Any non-WoW, non-LotRO gaming this past week?
VardaValar1: Tank games, flashgaming, Rift, Guild Wars or whatever?
ArPharazonV: Myup, not much new though. Mostly still Hearthstone and Pixelo. Though if you want a little traffic puzzle game I played this week..
VardaValar1: Play in traffic, eh hmm
ArPharazonV: Cars coming from all directions and you have to operate traffic lights.
VardaValar1: Think I saw that on Die Hard.

AriehnV: bit Elder Scrolls here but not that much .. i ve tried to add the other guy but had no luck there
VardaValar1: Couldn't find his hame or what was the problem?
VardaValar1: *name
ArPharazonV: Anyway, that's it from me, so continue with Elder Scrolls :-)
VardaValar1: ah, he answered you on the forum. May have to be online at the same time.
VardaValar1: Another use for AIM, sort of like our old Battlenet channel. :-)
VardaValar1: He has a good quote at the bottom of his posts. : )
VardaValar1: Any other gaming?

ArPharazonV: Hmm... how do you feel like an alien horror game where you play a worm-thing landing in a meteor and you have to eat animals to change your size or your abilities, to reach a human to eat?
ArPharazonV: *feel about
VardaValar1: um, guess it depends on how well they show it, if there is humor.
mcioutpost has left the room.
AriehnV: ah right
mcioutpost has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: There's humor involved, yes.
VardaValar1: Looks as if Nar is having some difficulties.
mcioutpost: Better than usual. I only disconnect momentarily.
VardaValar1: If it's a game where we wind up like Wiley Coyote finally catching the Roadrunner, but having shrunk too small to do anything about it,it could be amusing.
ArPharazonV: Hmm, you do actually end up eating people, and there's a bit of cartoon violence involved. But it's still a cute alien!
VardaValar1: Not total frustration for the alien then, ok.

VardaValar1: WoW news:
VardaValar1: From the Valar's Games Site by Eonwe (feel free to send him news):
VardaValar1: three new blogs out by Blizzard
VardaValar1: History and current direction of raids
VardaValar1: and of PvP (Player vs Player).
VardaValar1: Warlords of Draenor has been patched so it should be smoother now. [Note corrections, errors made by Varda only: Warlords of Draenor is still in alpha and has had some changes made accordingly. WoW has had hotfixes but not a patch.]
VardaValar1: Any other WoW news?
ArPharazonV: Children's Week was this week.
VardaValar1: (Hey Guild Wars 2 and other gamer branches, be sure to send in how you're doing!)
ArPharazonV: I've been carrying the draenei kid with me all week for raids etc, and only now am finishing her quests :-)
VardaValar1: Is it over?
ArPharazonV: It'll end tomorrow morning.
ArPharazonV: So you've still got a few hours?1
ArPharazonV: *!
VardaValar1: ahh, lets you keep the little buddy to the last minute that way?
VardaValar1: I would, but the game and the gadget for the code are in another state.
ArPharazonV: Well, you can even if you do finish the quests, since you get another summoning whistle to keep until the holiday ends.
VardaValar1: o good. :-)
ArPharazonV: But I just never got around to it :-)
VardaValar1: Any other WoW news?

VardaValar1: LotRO:
VardaValar1: The update 13.1 gave us new content, more book story line, and session play as Treebeard among other things. :-)
VardaValar1: Also First Age symbols now drop.
VardaValar1: After player testing in live, the patch 13.1 comes out Monday
VardaValar1: So gaming servers will be down Monday from 7am to noon roughly, Eastern time.
VardaValar1: They may add more goodies, possibly the next festival, as well.
VardaValar1: Any other LotRO news?
VardaValar1: Oh, and expect the drop rate for First Age symbols to slow down afterwards, as is usually the case.
VardaValar1: People are therefore farming the fastest possible runs for the symbols, so not much else is happening for higher level characters.
VardaValar1: Any further business, suggestions, comments before we change from the business section?
VardaValar1: Also feel free to whisper your Tolkien topics to the chairman.

VardaValar1: Tolkien:
VardaValar1: RP: we seem to have a post from Indis's Meren.
VardaValar1: April 21
VardaValar1: I was hoping for a post from Menelvagor before the next from Fainan, but don't think it's going to happen.
VardaValar1: Maybe he's show abruptly at our shoulder as we leave Rivendell. "I thought you'd never leave!"
VardaValar1: *he''ll

VardaValar1: Tolkien chat topic:
VardaValar1: Some critics say JRRT didn't show character personality.
ArPharazonV: "Me? Oh, I was just over there the whole time. Didn't you see me?"
VardaValar1: Aye, that. :-)
VardaValar1: But JRRT loved inference, and giving just enough information so the reader could figure it out. Kind of a puzzle game.
ArPharazonV: Well, that's the problem with having such a large cast, too. You can't point out the little quirks and interests and flaws in every secondary character.
VardaValar1: So how did he show or not show character, personality? As in what he would or would not do, what he wanted, where his loyalties lay.
VardaValar1: That's true, so he had to be economical about it.
ArPharazonV: Mostly by having them interact with each other and having them comment on stuff. Legolas and Gimli come to mind :-)
VardaValar1: We have some idea of the Fellowship personalities, even with as little as we are given.
VardaValar1: Aye :-)
VardaValar1: For instance, is someone laconic, gloomy, cheery, grumpy, unhappy with the party goal?
VardaValar1: For minor characters, Legolas and Gimli give a lot to the feeling of the Fellowship.
ArPharazonV: Boromir's emphasized as to a change in goal.
ArPharazonV: As you said, being economical about it...
VardaValar1: Aye, a complete change in his acceptance of the new king that would take his place, and in Gondor's place in the scheme of things.
VardaValar1: and in how to go about their goal.
karakedi25 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: He has a redemption theme going, and growth.
VardaValar1: Aiya Indis. Nice forum post. : )
ArPharazonV: Always useful for character personality!
karakedi25: aiya
karakedi25: which post was that?
VardaValar1: We're discussing the economical way JRRT sketched personalities, especially in the Fellowship.
VardaValar1: Meren's.
karakedi25: if it was Meren, it was so long ago that I've forgotten it
VardaValar1: No worries. Feel free to weigh in on the Tolkien discussion. : )
karakedi25: I have a big surprise for you....
karakedi25: I'm in a raid :-P
VardaValar1: How the personalities were shown.
VardaValar1: ok, good ;luck. May a First Age drop for you.
karakedi25: thanks :-)
VardaValar1: Need a hunter? or minstrel? \^^
VardaValar1: Ok, we have nine Fellowship members.
VardaValar1: We mentioned Boromir.
karakedi25: we're full, but if someone drops, I'll let you know
VardaValar1: Didn't really say what was sketched about Legolas and Gimli, but they got a mention.
VardaValar1: Indis, mostly tongue in cheek as you could get a replacement before I could boot up.
ArPharazonV: Their opinions on Dwarven and Elven things, respectively :-)
VardaValar1: True
VardaValar1: Legolas also apparently sang a fair bit. Passing mention.
ArPharazonV: Well, he is an elf, after all!
VardaValar1: I've always wondered if Sam had had his fill of elves and ignored him as they hardly say two words to each other. Or just too focused on Frodo's well-being to notice anyone else.
VardaValar1: Sam said the elves were above his like or dislike, but didn't Legolas seem more down to earth and approachable in their group? But they hardly speak.
ArPharazonV: That we know of.
karakedi25: we don't actually know about that; they may have spoken more, but the chroniclers didn't write about it
VardaValar1: Aye. That's the inference bit.
ArPharazonV: They journeyed together for months.
ArPharazonV: They might have spoken quite a bit, but it wasn't plotrelevant ;-)
VardaValar1: Aye. Ok, break out your keyboards and write some short stories about the Fellowship getting to know each other. :-)
VardaValar1: Some knew each other already. Aragorn and Gandalf had journeyed together a long time.
ArPharazonV: I mean, if you talk about inference... if Sam was interested in Elves and Legolas was approachable, it's not that farfetched to *infer* that they would've conversed.
VardaValar1: Aragorn had worked as a captain under Boromir's grandfather and knew his father, certainly knew Gondor.
VardaValar1: Aye, Phar.
VardaValar1: Boromir knew Aragorn might walk in and try to replace his father and/or himself but got to know him on the long journey.
VardaValar1: Aragorn dropped off Gollum with the Mirkwood elves and was annoyed to find they could fail in their trust. He must have had reason to have had the initial trust.
VardaValar1: It was a very important prisoner, and he didn't tell them the importance but expected perfect security.
ArPharazonV: Did he know Legolas, then?
VardaValar1: Inference, heh.
VardaValar1: We know Legolas made the trip to Rivendell, possibly solo, although he never went to Lothlorien.
VardaValar1: Here's another thought. Arwen was the only elven princess, much older than Legolas. Yet she didn't seem concerned so much about age since she fell for Aragorn.
VardaValar1: He went to Rivendell, but not to Lorien where she was staying.
VardaValar1: Ok, how about Gimli?
VardaValar1: We know he was close to quite a few members of Thorin's Company, including his wealthy father.
VardaValar1: He grew up in the area where Smaug was a history well known to his elders and to those with whom they traded.
VardaValar1: He had a good idea that huge evil things were out there.
VardaValar1: He seemed of a serious turn of mind, unless thinking about the greatness of Moria. Even there he emphasizes food and hospitality rather then riches.
VardaValar1: He is enamored of the beauty of the Glittering Caves that he finds under Helm's Deep, and is eloquent.
ArPharazonV: Not just the Glittering Caves' beauty that gets to him.
mcioutpost has left the room.
ArPharazonV: If I remember a certain elven queen...
VardaValar1: True. : )
VardaValar1: He notices beauty of more than one kind.
VardaValar1: Merry is shown as being responsible, in what ways?
VardaValar1: (oh, and nice artwork on the picture for Indis on the forum)
ArPharazonV: He handles much of Frodo's affairs in his departure from the Shire, getting him a house and moving his luggage and picking him up at the ferry.
VardaValar1: Aye
ArPharazonV: Gets a bit phased out through much of the book, but when he joins the Riders of Rohan he kind of shines again.
VardaValar1: Merry also sees himself as responsible for Pippin.
VardaValar1: The two of them distracted the orcs from Frodo, a very courageous thing to do, saving Frodo and the mission.
ArPharazonV: Aye.
karakedi25: to say nothing of being enamored of Galadriel
karakedi25: art work for Indis?
VardaValar1: Yes, on our forum, your portrait.
VardaValar1: sig
VardaValar1: avatar,heh
karakedi25: that's actually Luthien, but i liked it :-)
VardaValar1: The one you're using. Aye, doesn't look blonde.
karakedi25: Indis may have Vanyar hair, but she's not a 'blonde' (joke)
VardaValar1: No blonde moments. : )
karakedi25: not Indis the Vanya. Indis the member of Valar may have them :-P
VardaValar1: Pippin, with all the greatness around him, rises himself. He tries to honor Boromir by giving service to Boromir's father.
VardaValar1: He saves Faramir and Beregond.
karakedi25: Pippin may grow more than any of the others, with the possible exception of Frodo and Sam
karakedi25: by the end, even Gandalf wouldn't call him fool of a Took
ArPharazonV: One gets the feeling Pippin had further to go, though. Started from behind. Except maybe for Sam.
karakedi25: true, but both grew up to match the others
VardaValar1: Agreed. Pippin was the youngest, the others were looking out for him.
VardaValar1: And let's not forget Merry's ability to keep a confidence, not telling his master Theoden that she was there in hiding.
VardaValar1: and then helping her versus the terror of the Witch-king.
VardaValar1: Sam grew to be a Ringbearer allowed to go to Valinor. :-)
ArPharazonV: Quite an honor!
karakedi25: Merry was pretty much a grown-up from the beginning, other than Shire-born naivete
VardaValar1: Aye about Merry.
VardaValar1: However he still filled in even more, and became knowledgeable and able to defend the Shire as a leader.
karakedi25: Yes, not just the leader of Buckland in waiting, bt
VardaValar1: Aye
karakedi25: but figure in his own right
ArPharazonV: Aye.
VardaValar1: Pippin learned and grew, so that he would be an excellent Thane in later years. Not just a guy at ceremonies.
karakedi25: *a major figure
karakedi25: hard to raid and type
VardaValar1: aye, heh.Thanks for your trouble!
ArPharazonV: And how much all the hobbits had grown, was nicely shown in the Scouring.
karakedi25: ?
VardaValar1: Frodo was already the 'best hobbit in the Shire" but he grew even more, saw into hearts with ease, and grew beyond the world he lived in so that he needed Valinor not just for an easing of the old pain and addiction.
VardaValar1: True, Phar. The end of the Hero's Journey
VardaValar1: It's very very hard to raid and do a good discussion at the same time. Much appreciated.
karakedi25: the appreciation is appreciated ;-)
VardaValar1: Only person we haven't really mentioned yet is Gandalf. Do we see him have a personality? Grow?
VardaValar1: :-)
karakedi25: yes, if nothing else from his resurrection
ArPharazonV: Well. He grew, of a sort. But it was mostly a transition, or a transformation. Going from state 1 to state 2 without much in between.
VardaValar1: Still recognizable from personality traits. : )
karakedi25: I expect he became more wary after his betrayal by Saruman
VardaValar1: Good point. That had to be a horrible let-down.
ArPharazonV: I wonder if that made him more wary of the Ring, too; if it played a consideration in his refusal to take it into his own keeping.
VardaValar1: Maybe. He was already wary when with Bilbo
ArPharazonV: If Saruman could be tempted by it without even having it, what could it do to Gandalf?
VardaValar1: It would have a terrible power given to it, something the Ring would love to have to help it reach Sauron.
VardaValar1: He would have been a terror.
ArPharazonV: Quite scary, yes!
VardaValar1: It tried to go after Gandalf, but he had already refused power such as heading the White Council. Gandalf had greater character depth.
ArPharazonV: Gandalf had more insight into his own weaknesses.
ArPharazonV: Compared to Saruman.
karakedi25: or maturity
VardaValar1: Saruman felt a weakness too, that he could not stand up to Sauron, and tried to slip in as a lord on his own under Sauron.
VardaValar1: True on the maturity also.
VardaValar1: Gandalf seemed to understand the Istar's role better, that they didn't need their own power but were intended to marshal that of others vs Sauron.
VardaValar1: They could have been left at full power and torn down Sauron. But the world would have been horribly injured and the people would not have grown to be able to take care of great troubles.
VardaValar1: The growth of the Free People is a major theme for this reason even if much of it is inferred. It has to be inside the individual, and should be encouraged.
VardaValar1: Are there any other comments of any kind?
AriehnV has left the room.
VardaValar1: AIM may be a bit unstable, lost another by crash.
VardaValar1: *swings a shining silver hammer*
VardaValar1: *tinnnnnnng*

VardaValar1: After-meeting!
VardaValar1: Enjoy gaming and using this channel like our old Battlenet if you like.
VardaValar1: Namarie for now.
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
karakedi25: namarie :-)
VardaValar1: oh, one more observaton meant to bring
VardaValar1: On personality, Ioreth-V asked us to comtemplate whether Balrogs were sentient or animals. Or if they once had been sentient and descended that far.
ArPharazonV: Sentient, I believe. They were supposed to be dark Maiar or something, right?
ArPharazonV: They might always have remained sentient, though possibly not too bright.
ArPharazonV: One of them commanded the attack on Gondolin, if I recall.
karakedi25: I'm fairly certain they were sentient. After all, Sauron, Gandalf, Melian, et al. were Maiar
karakedi25: OK, logging out. See you next week if not before
karakedi25 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
VardaValar1: bye :-)
VardaValar1 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Namarie, then!
ArPharazonV: saving and sending transcript
ArPharazonV: saved
ArPharazonV: Hmm, got the date wrong. Saving again!