March 23, 2014 Sunday Meeting
EDT (UTC/GMT - 5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
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Transcript work by Ar-Pharazon and Varda.
AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Indis-(V)/karakedi25, VardaValar1 (presiding)
Chat topic: The first family of sorts would be Eru.
He had four sets of children after a fashion. What four were those?
You have just entered room
ArPharazonV: Still an hour early here :-)
AriehnV has entered the room.
AriehnV: aiya there
VardaValar1: One clock over here has no DST, the other does, and none
match EDT. I'll learn someday. :-)
AriehnV: yeah sorry caught up in ad rp at the moment at the same time a
bit trouble brewing with my ER rp folks there
AriehnV: so just a bit much happening at the same time just now
ArPharazonV: Still raiding here, one boss before we quit for the day.
VardaValar1: Okie dokie.
VardaValar1: Most people in the US are in their busy part of the day
VardaValar1: *eats sandwich*
AriehnV: eats southern fried escalopesx with fries
VardaValar1: Sounds interesting. What is escalpesx?
VardaValar1: Mine is British bacon between buttered toast.
VardaValar1: Heart attack special.
AriehnV: the germans call it "schnitzel"Q
VardaValar1: o ok. :-)
AriehnV: and it has a southern fried coating around it
AriehnV: spicy bread crum coating
VardaValar1: Please feel free to put out the brush fires with your rp
VardaValar1: Sounds familiar, that coating.
AriehnV: i ll try to ^^
VardaValar1: Let me know when you two are back. :-)
ArPharazonV: Allright, done with raiding, so will be less afk. I'll do
an archeo daily before I log, though, shouldn't take long.
ArPharazonV: Aaaand we're out.
VardaValar1: Hope it went well. :-)
VardaValar1: I have a LotRO date with Fangorn after the meeting. :-)
VardaValar1: Games are a nice way to keep in touch at a distance.
ArPharazonV: Hah, that's nice! Key to long-distance relationships maybe.
VardaValar1: One of them.:-) He phones daily too.
VardaValar1: Then we do an occasional email.
ArPharazonV: That works.
VardaValar1: Married 40 years, so yep.
VardaValar1: Be 41 later this year. You can find us in your archeo dig.
ArPharazonV: Well after that time, it should be a bit more difficult
than mere distance to be a problem for you.
VardaValar1: Aye to that. :-)
sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: A star shines on the hour of our meeting.
VardaValar1: I'm still in Arizona, probably well into May, but have
most things working now so all should be well.
VardaValar1: Only trick is I'm often working with the baby making
VardaValar1: Any other Membership news?
ArPharazonV: Hmm, how early is too early to teach a kid about gaming?
VardaValar1: Depends on what game. This two month old is trying to
figure out how to stack fist on fist on fist...
VardaValar1: A 9 year old was playing with my hunter on LotRO and got
the general idea pretty fast, wiping out wargs like crazy.
VardaValar1: Probably as soon as they're coordinated enough to hit the
intended key on the keyboard.
ArPharazonV: Pretty big spectrum between those two.
VardaValar1: So keyboards should be an early toy?
ArPharazonV: Hah, maybe.
ArPharazonV: Give it a small piano and you'll have some entertainment
VardaValar1: Could use it to teach numbers and letter?
ArPharazonV: at 2 months?
VardaValar1: Maybe bright colored plastic
VardaValar1: I sing alphabet, numbers, and days of the week to him now.
No tellng how much he's picking up by accident.
VardaValar1: I figure when he can punch an intended key instead of
VardaValar1: Supervised gaming of course!
VardaValar1: Doesn't have to be online.
VardaValar1: More Pong!
ArPharazonV: There are plenty of learning games and websites out there.
VardaValar1: Aye to that.
VardaValar1: Any more membership stuff?
VardaValar1: I think I have it all fixed up again so we can handle all
sorts of nicely complicated goodies again. Test me!
VardaValar1: Any non-LotRO, non-WoW gaming this week?
VardaValar1: Fangorn played StarCraft
ArPharazonV: Bit of flashgaming,
and some Hearthstone. Actually
got my 3 wins, after a mere 7 tries, so wasn't too bad.
VardaValar1: Grats! Fast.
ArPharazonV: And awaiting my Diablo 3
CE on tuesday! Hoping it all goes well :-)
VardaValar1: Good luck!
ArPharazonV: Thanks :-)
ArPharazonV: That's pretty much it for me!
VardaValar1: Eowyn waves hi as she goes past with the baby.
ArPharazonV: *waves back*
VardaValar1: Any news on the WoW front?
ArPharazonV: Archeology going well. Only a few more achievements and
pristines left. I'm one pandaren board away from being done with
Pandaren, and one pristine insignia away from being done with Mogu;
that'll probably take forever to get.
VardaValar1: Before I forget, Eonwe's Games Site News can be seen by
clicking Gaming on our site, or click this:
ArPharazonV: And 2 new heroic bossfights won in the last raid, so
that's going well too!
VardaValar1: Very good!
VardaValar1: A correction to the Games Site for LotRO:
VardaValar1: the kin auction
is every second weekend of the month, not every two weekends. I was not
clear enough, pardon.
VardaValar1: That probably needs clarified on the main News site as
VardaValar1: We don't have a lot of regulars coming on at the same time
right now, but it's increasing so
VardaValar1: we're making a stab at bringing back the Monday and
Wednesday night instance runs
VardaValar1: We're still working out times.
VardaValar1: We did manage to get going on the Monday lowbie run, and
did Forgotten Treasury, the first real instance and good for learning.
VardaValar1: Some people had gone through it but so fast with others
that they didn't really know what was going on.
VardaValar1: So we worked on making sure everyone understood and would
be able to teach others as well.
VardaValar1: Wednesday we didn't manage to get together for an actual
instance, but did have some duos.
VardaValar1: Today is the last day of increased
VardaValar1: People are being asked to apply for the Player's Council to help advise the
Devs on what they want for the game.
VardaValar1: The player has to actually be active in the game. : )
ArPharazonV: could be a problem for you, then? :-)
VardaValar1: Any other news, comments, suggestions, complaints, kudos?
VardaValar1: I'm active.
ArPharazonV: Not as active as you'd like to be, apparently!
VardaValar1: Not sure I'd be a good one for the Players Council.
VardaValar1: Agreed, but that will be improved later.
VardaValar1: This is a temporary situation.
VardaValar1: Any other comments, suggestions on anything before we
change to Tolkien?
VardaValar1: Do we have any players that would be interested in LotRO rp event making by our kin?
Maybe a riddle, fishing party with music and dancing? :-)
ArPharazonV: Only that my gametime's
running out tomorrow, and I don't have a new gamecard; deciding whether
to take the bus into town or just buy 3 months online.
VardaValar1: Phar without gaming. That just sounds wrong. What would
you do down in that hole underground without it?
VardaValar1: The planned chat is about family in Tolkien's works.
VardaValar1: The first family of sorts would be Eru. He had four sets
of children after a fashion.
VardaValar1: What four were those?
karakedi25 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Indis. Good timing!
VardaValar1: Just started Tolkien.
VardaValar1: Question up is:
VardaValar1: The first family of sorts would be Eru. He had four sets
of children after a fashion. What four were those?
ArPharazonV: Well, Elves and Men are the two obvious ones; I'm not sure
whether you're distinguishing between Valar and Maiar, or Ainur and
Dwarves (his adopted children)
VardaValar1: I figured Ainur as the first group, Dwarves as adoptees
then put to temporary rest until the others were born, Elves as
firstborn, Men as secondborn.
VardaValar1: I see your point.
VardaValar1: What were some main differences between the four groups?
Eru must have done the differences for a reason.
ArPharazonV: Their fate after death, for one. Some were bound to the
life of Ea, some were released from it, and some existed before it.
VardaValar1: That made a huge difference for each group.
ArPharazonV: I also think that Elves and Men are related to the phases
of the Music?
VardaValar1: The Ainur didn't have children or actual family
relationships, but did ïn the mind of Eru.
karakedi25: Dwarves weren't by Eru's intention; the others were
VardaValar1: Aye, Dwarves were adopted.
VardaValar1: Aule was impatiently wanting to see the new siblings and
made his own, but they had no will other than what he put into them
until Eru gave it to them.
VardaValar1: Life was given by the fire imperishable/secret fire of Eru.
ArPharazonV: There's also mental power; the Ainur were god-like in
their abilities (well, if you compare them to the Classic pantheons),
the Elves were strong enough to have a presence in both the "real"
world and the shadow world, as well as being difficult to mind-control
and pretty much immune to sickness...
ArPharazonV: Dwarves had little mental power but great mental (and
physical) resistance, they could not be swayed by the Rings of Power
except for their greed;
VardaValar1: Humans could escape Arda after a time, although the others
ArPharazonV: and Men... well... bottom of the pack, in that aspect.
VardaValar1: Humans were the wild cards, not bound. They could help
ArPharazonV: That is true.
VardaValar1: Of the Ainur, Melkor was intended to be like the older
brother helping coordinate the others because he was given a little of
the gifts of all the others.
VardaValar1: But he saw that he was missing the secret fire that Eru
had, and felt he should have it too.
VardaValar1: To get it, he had to not see that it was a part of Eru but
think it was hidden in the Void, that he could search and take it for
VardaValar1: A way of gaining a feeling of completeness, perhaps.
VardaValar1: But he was away from the others so much and being
secretive, that he was bent from his original purpose.
VardaValar1: So we have the black sheep of the Ainur family that would
corrupt others that might never have gone bad, the weaker-minded, those
that wanted power.
VardaValar1: But Eru was ready for that.
VardaValar1: He had the concept of brother.
VardaValar1: Manwe was the brother to Melkor, so that he could step
into the space left by the loss of Melkor. And he was closest in mind
VardaValar1: So there was need early on of the family concept. We have
father, and we have brother.
VardaValar1: Then some naturally had minds that ran to feminine or
masculine gender, leading to duos. Thus we have the husband wife
VardaValar1: This helped them understand such concepts in their later
VardaValar1: What about family in the Elves?
VardaValar1: Was it any different for them than for humans?
ArPharazonV: Kids took quite a while longer to grow up, there tended to
be less of them, and there was no dying of old age either; so the
family structure would've been different as a result.
VardaValar1: Less concern about having an heir for a long time if ever.
VardaValar1: They could be removed from Middle-earth in their wars or
by grief, or sailing.
VardaValar1: But they had the expectation of being reunited eventually
in Valinor. Good thing they could wait a long time.
ArPharazonV: But they'd still be around, even if it's in Halls on the
other side of the world. You know you'll see them again one day.
ArPharazonV: There's never the idea of permanent departure from your
VardaValar1: Aye. In one way, they had a hopeful outlook that's easy to
miss in the general gloom.
ArPharazonV: Unless you marry a mortal, apparently!
VardaValar1: That was pretty rare, and a bad idea in most cases.
VardaValar1: Humans would go to Eru, apparently after a short stop off
in Mandos to consider their lives. Yet they didn't seem as hopeful of
seeing their loved ones even with a shorter waiting time.
VardaValar1: Morgoth and Sauron had put the seed of doubt in them that
karakedi25: humans had no way of knowing what was after death
VardaValar1: They were told they would go to Eru, but not what would
happen then. Aye, much more uncertainty, and no one came back to tell
karakedi25: and most of the elves had lived in Valinor and knew much
ArPharazonV: Did the Elves know, though? How many generations would
pass between their being in Aman among the Valar? How long until they
started to doubt the stories of their ancestors?
VardaValar1: The elves had three elves who visited Valinor before the
main group started heading that way after their report.
ArPharazonV: Even if it was like 3 or 4 generations... it could still
cast some doubt.
VardaValar1: Galadriel was born in Valinor and was still present during
the War of the Ring, so they had first-hand knowledge.
VardaValar1: They all knew where the shipyard was, a solid thing to
see, that humans did not have.
ArPharazonV: That must help, yes.
karakedi25: humans had to take an awful lot on faith
VardaValar1: Agreed, Indis. A hard thing.
karakedi25: Dwarves had their belief in Mahal/Aule.
VardaValar1: One thing the humans did have was seeing elves that had
their own certainty of the Valar.
VardaValar1: Aye, the Dwarves expected to go to Aule/Mahal in thier
karakedi25: OK, back to the raid...
ArPharazonV: have fun!
VardaValar1: We can call it here.
VardaValar1: Good luck to Arien with her rp folks, and to Indis on her
VardaValar1: *hammer makes a dull thunking noise*
VardaValar1: Hmm, wonder if that one was hollow or wet?
VardaValar1: Namarie for now. :-)
VardaValar1 has left the room.
karakedi25 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Namarie to Indis too!
AriehnV has left the room.
ArPharazonV: saving and sending