Valar Guild

June 8, 2014 Sunday Meeting

5pm EDT (UTC/GMT - 5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by
Ar-Pharazon and Varda.

Attending: (5)
    AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Fladrifv (After-meeting), Indis-(V)/karakedi25, VardaValar1 (presiding)

Meeting begins
    Games Site
    Forum (during After-meeting)
    Chat topic: JRRT made a number of types of races and characters that became such staples of other stories and games that sometimes we forget they came from him directly or indirectly. Can you name such a one and a game or story they were carried off to?

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya - parking here early so no excuse. Home again :-)
VardaValar1: Making folks something to eat right quick.
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
VardaValar1: Aiya - got 'em stuffed. :-)
ArPharazonV: Allright, just poked arien
VardaValar1: hmm, maybe I should go into LotRO and do some poking too.
VardaValar1: Thanks :-)
AriehnV has entered the room.
AriehnV: aiya all :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya :-)
VardaValar1: Aiya Arien :-)
VardaValar1: Pulling up LotRO for pokign purposes
ArPharazonV: That little star always looks like it's waving at us.
VardaValar1: Perfect : )
VardaValar1: Sooo many windows up, clearing a few
VardaValar1: Has anyone seen any of the other Valar members in Europe?
ArPharazonV: Fladrif sometimes, not sure if it was this week though.
VardaValar1: Cool - glad to hear he's getting to play
VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Membership:
VardaValar1: Hello from Elwing and Sauron who are on this side of the screen. : )
VardaValar1: Bilbo is here too, Fangorn should be back late tomorrow.
VardaValar1: Any other membership stuff?

VardaValar1: Web:
VardaValar1: Tolkien Site:
VardaValar1: We have new art from the Bohemian Weasel-(T)
VardaValar1: The list is up on the News for this last week's uploading. Did you both see it already?
ArPharazonV: A whole bunch of it, that I saw!
VardaValar1: Aye! With more to come. : )
ArPharazonV: Yep, went through em. Looked quite good. Specific scenes from the books.
VardaValar1: Aye, a little movie stuff, but mostly keeps to the books.
VardaValar1: Not only new artwork for her cave, but even new sections (cave rooms) with new art.
VardaValar1: This is especially handy for image collections for articles in our Encyclopedia.
VardaValar1: A fair number of articles have a list of images, enough to side-track a person trying to do research, but fun.
VardaValar1: Most are listed as links, but a few become article headers.
VardaValar1: Some of the ones from this week have also been added to the rotating image on the index at

VardaValar1: Games Site:
VardaValar1: Eonwe has added more news for us, to be brought up in the Gaming section, but you can often get it there first.
VardaValar1: If you have favorite Tolkien pages you'd like in our Links page, please check to see if we already have it. If we don't, feel free to email me with the url.

VardaValar1: Gaming:
VardaValar1: Any non-WoW, non-LotRO gaming this last week?
ArPharazonV: Yup. More Hearthstone for a start; was stuck at rank 20 in the June season for a while but finally jumped to rank 19/18/19 yesterday, so maybe things'll go better for the rest of the month :-)
ArPharazonV: Also got all heroes to lvl 19 or higher; in fact, with some luck I should get all of them to 20 tonight.
VardaValar1: Whee! Good luck. :-)
ArPharazonV: Since only 3 or 4 remain and those are almost at 20 already ;-)
ArPharazonV: Also more flashgaming! Few fun games, but not too many special ones to advertise here... except I'll give you a link to an atmospheric little platformer, which I might have linked in years past; I'm pretty sure I'd played it before. But apparently I did not get the badge for completing it yet until this week :-)
VardaValar1: Bilbo has been working up both a good and not-good character on EverQuest 2.
ArPharazonV: And that's it for me!
VardaValar1: Thank you Phar. : )
VardaValar1: World of WarCraft, aka WoW:
VardaValar1: From Eonwe's part of our site, Gaming:
VardaValar1: It looks like Warlords of Draenor is now officially in Alpha.
VardaValar1: Check out the current status of stats for Warlords of Draenor in the new Dev Watercooler: Stat Updates for Warlords of Draenor.
VardaValar1: The big news for our folks personally is:
VardaValar1: According to the most recent connected realms update, Lothar is scheduled to be connected to the realm Grizzly Hills on June 19.
VardaValar1: Any more WoW news?
VardaValar1: LotRO:
AriehnV: very good concerning the alpha testing
AriehnV: and nice artwork thre
VardaValar1: Good to see them working away on the game. Far as I know, WoW is still the top MMO.
VardaValar1: LotRO:
VardaValar1: The mmo closest to Tolkien hearts, quite possibly, although many games use bits out of Middle-earth, quite a few bits even.
ArPharazonV: Oh, I think, for WoW, they put a first iteration of the Toy Box list somewhere. Let me find it.
VardaValar1: LotRO game servers and the turbine account page will be offline on Monday, June 09th from 7am to 12pm Eastern
VardaValar1: Ok
VardaValar1: for an update to the launcher. Hotfix mainly.
ArPharazonV: It's somewhere in this news blog. Shouldn't be hard to find. Bunch of blue links categorized by expansion or raidtier.
VardaValar1: Those links could keep WoWites busy for a while.
ArPharazonV: *nods* ton of information on WoD besides the toy box, as well
VardaValar1: Any other gaming, business, comments, suggestions, scheming?
VardaValar1: Tolkien:
AriehnV: err insert Lotro
VardaValar1: In the rp, Eonwe reminded me that Auros was going to post the next evening when his compadres came back to Riv.
AriehnV: bitla te pfft
VardaValar1: Ok, LotRO revisited.
AriehnV: bit late
AriehnV: but i did a bit on the wee champ last monday
VardaValar1: Good to hear. : )
AriehnV: and was able to finish book 1 on the epic quest did the intro to skirmishes with him and took the lift to the intro to Book 2 :-)
AriehnV: Orthrongod was fun .. not easy easy but good solable with some decent gearfrom the skirmish guys
AriehnV: and some halfway decent weapons from Questlines
VardaValar1: Fun to do with friends too
AriehnV: yip :-) still got some normal quests in the instance open
AriehnV: so feel ree with some mini alt ::D
AriehnV: feel free
AriehnV: so he s level 21and a half now :-)
AriehnV: thats it
VardaValar1: Thank you, Sunshine :-)

VardaValar1: Tolkien:
VardaValar1: JRRT made a number of types of races and characters that became such staples of other stories and games that sometimes we forget they came from him directly or indirectly.
VardaValar1: Can you name such a one and a game or story they were carried off to?
VardaValar1: *it
ArPharazonV: Orcs, and World of Warcraft :-)
AriehnV: hmm Battle of Middleearth ..yes .. various Creatures in Forever Destiny Larp like Uruk Hai orcs *nods*
ArPharazonV: There are ents in Warcraft too, though they don't tend to use that name; going more by "treant" or "ancient"
VardaValar1: High Elves in caves and blond elves living in trees in EverQuest
ArPharazonV: I do believe Orcs were an original Tolkien-invention; not sure about his interpretation of trolls or dwarves. I do know he took his Elves from Scandinavian myth, but with a twist.
ArPharazonV: A twist which also copies to the Warcraft series, and the Elder Scrolls series.
VardaValar1: Orcs are original aye, maybe using Orkney to help invent the name
ArPharazonV: Orcs were inserted in more recent Discworld books as well.
ArPharazonV: Not to mention the whole Dungeons and Dragons universe(s).
VardaValar1: Hobbits and kender have some similarities, but are pretty different. Dragonlance series.
ArPharazonV: There are halflings in Everquest. And the Warcraft gnomes were probably based on hobbits too, though a bit more technologically advanced.
ArPharazonV: And halflings in D&D too.
AriehnV: the whole idea of creating fantasy universes goes back to Tolkien in a way
ArPharazonV: Halflings being, of course, hobbits but without the trademark.
AriehnV: i am not sure whetherhe was the very first one to do that but certainly one of the first
VardaValar1: Fantasy literature in general took a giant leap forward, became almost respectable
ArPharazonV: Tough to say. I know there's stuff like Gulliver's Travels or Alice in Wonderland or the Wizard of Oz... but those are connected to our world, and features someone crossing over. In fact, not sure when Wizard of Oz was written.
ArPharazonV: A quick check says 1900, so well before Tolkien.
ArPharazonV: Not sure if I can think of a completely independent fantasy world before Tolkien.
VardaValar1: 1900 for Oz books, Wikipedia
ArPharazonV: *nods*
karakedi25 has entered the room.
karakedi25: aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
VardaValar1: Aiya Indis
VardaValar1: We were commenting on how JRRT's races/character/ideas showed up with particular characters in other books, games.
ArPharazonV: So yes. Oz definitely precedes Middle-Earth, but not sure if there's a preceding fantasy world with no meddling by characters from our own.
ArPharazonV: Self-contained, as it were.
VardaValar1: Oz shows the earlier idea of the little people concept for elvish beings rather than the aristocratic or trooping fairy/elf, or Scandinavian types.
VardaValar1: Hobbits could be said to owe a good bit to the earlier myths of the little people.
ArPharazonV: Aye. More the Shakespearean type, I suppose?
ArPharazonV: True.
VardaValar1: Even Shakespeare had very little of the real high elf that JRRT brought back. Titania and Oberon don't quite make the cut in the Bard's work.
VardaValar1: Of course there are tons of games that come right out and state they are from JRRT's works: LotRO for one
ArPharazonV: Battle for Middle-Earth series.
VardaValar1: Aye
ArPharazonV: I bet if I looked hard enough I'd find a flashgame where you have to launch the Ring into Mount Doom via catapult.
ArPharazonV: If not, it should be made!
VardaValar1: Sounds wild :-)
karakedi25: Phar, I've been reading about you in HoME :-P
VardaValar1: Ah hah! We're about to find out about the Golden One :-)
karakedi25: Not a nice person at all, at all...
ArPharazonV: Actually there are some more flattering versions of my story in HoME than is canon in the Akallabeth, I believe.
karakedi25: just as well the Valar have him cooped up in a cave
VardaValar1: Did manage to stop Sauron from tearing up Middle-earth for a while.
karakedi25: not very much more flattering
karakedi25: yeah, got him to wreck Numenor instead
VardaValar1: In a hole in Valinor there lies a King of Numenor.
VardaValar1: Aye, and the earth is no longer flat because of him
karakedi25: not a nice cozy hole, but a nasty, creepy dank hole
VardaValar1: heh
ArPharazonV: See, now we have a world where nobody falls off the edge. You should thank me for it.
VardaValar1: Our Phar is out to repair his name, here at the end of all things, before Arda Unmarred can be created. :-)
karakedi25: *shrugs* Careless mariners deserve what they get
VardaValar1: When he gets beached, he goes all the way down
karakedi25: Besides what about poor Miriel aka Ar-Zimra(p)hil?
VardaValar1: She's just sunk.
karakedi25: yeah but usurped and worse before that
ArPharazonV: See, there's a flattering version about that where we actually both fell for each other.
karakedi25: or actually she allowed herself to be seduced by kingly power
karakedi25: you still broke the laws of Numenor :-P
ArPharazonV: Well that's her own fault, then, really.
ArPharazonV: Pff, love waits for no law.
karakedi25: See, Varda, he really is a cad.
VardaValar1: More like ambition than love
karakedi25: ambition is a nice word for it
ArPharazonV: Just a romantic, I am!
karakedi25: some romantic
karakedi25: in love with power and wealth
ArPharazonV: Anyway, didn't find a catapult game, but I did find where you have to help guide the ring through lava... or something... not sure.
ArPharazonV: You don't know that!
VardaValar1: Thanks for the url. :-)
VardaValar1: Sure help legitimized his claim if she would just marry him.
karakedi25: that's all he cared about
karakedi25: he was easy pickings for Sauron
VardaValar1: She was pretty too, didn't hurt
VardaValar1: Aye, Sauron worked with the desire for power. Reason hobbits were not easy pickings.
ArPharazonV: I'm sure Pharazon had his human points. A desire for just power doesn't feel very realistic; nor do tyrants with just that attitude tend to very last long, even at the end of a 3000 year dynasty.
VardaValar1: Agreed, he had his human points.
karakedi25: and he didn't last his full life-span
ArPharazonV: But his love for stamp-collecting wasn't really relevant to history.
VardaValar1: Sauron took whatever faults he could find and augmented them.
VardaValar1: Concern over death became deep fear and the need to use power to do something about it.
karakedi25: and I'm sure he had a few redeeming qualities, and now he has the opportunity to develop them without distraction
ArPharazonV: Aye!
ArPharazonV: Didn't last full life-span? Doing pretty well past the full life-span, even if it is locked up in a cave.
ArPharazonV: Well, his kingship didn't last, but still.
ArPharazonV: I bet Pharazon had tons of hobbies and interests. If you're gonna live for 200 years you need something to do between political and military councils.
ArPharazonV: Who knows how good he was at playing the flugelhorn?
VardaValar1: Picking on the Faithful is always fun.
ArPharazonV: Difficult to find though.
VardaValar1: He's the king. He can send someone out to make or get one. :-)
ArPharazonV: Finding the Faithful I mean.
VardaValar1: They tended to go up in smoke
ArPharazonV: ...Yes, especially when Sauron got his hands on them.
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: Shall we call it here? We can still chat in After-meeting.
karakedi25: ok
ArPharazonV: Sure.
VardaValar1: *swings hammer, water splashes off of it*
VardaValar1: *spluuuud!*
VardaValar1: *wipes off hammer and desk*

VardaValar1: After-meeting!
ArPharazonV: Raining there, is it?
VardaValar1: Have to be careful around sunken places. Items may become damp.
ArPharazonV: Was there weather in Valinor? Did it rain?
ArPharazonV: I'd assume the plants need it, if nothing else.
VardaValar1: Good thought. Yes, there was.
VardaValar1: Orome and Manwe made rain together.
VardaValar1: er
ArPharazonV: Ulmo. Yes.
VardaValar1: Ulmo and Manwe
VardaValar1: *dodges a very high wave*
VardaValar1: *Varda's hearing voices again* (Never stops)
AriehnV: hearing voices is never good
VardaValar1: Manwe sees things.
ArPharazonV: Not even if the voices tell you it is good?
AriehnV: ah well depends on whether visible or just in the heid ..nods wisely
karakedi25: take care all
karakedi25: namarie
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
karakedi25 has left the room.
VardaValar1: Belated namarie :-)
AriehnV: Namarie to all nightowls
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
VardaValar1: Namarie :-)
AriehnV: :-)
VardaValar1: not quite 7pm :-)
AriehnV: mhh
AriehnV: quarter to 1. am here :-)
VardaValar1: Good morning!
AriehnV: hehe sweet dreams
AriehnV has left the room.
Fladrifv has entered the room.
Fladrifv: Aiya!
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
Fladrifv: I just wanted to share a link, reasonably tolkien related
VardaValar1: Aiya!
VardaValar1: Thank you :-)
Fladrifv: here you can find english translations of the Edda
Fladrifv: prose and poetic
Fladrifv: it might be of interest, you see how many names are closely related to the tolkien world
VardaValar1: Odin, the Eddas, aye, tons of stuff related to Tolkien
VardaValar1: Gandalf and the Dwarves' names just for starters
Fladrifv: (you have to scroll down for the free books dating back to the 1920s :-) )
VardaValar1: You can also get versions of the Eddas free online.
Fladrifv: (which is what this is :-) )
VardaValar1: Thanks! Good tip
VardaValar1: You like this translation?
Fladrifv: It is a quite nice one which keeps the original names
Fladrifv: I tend to prefer swedish translations but as they are not accessible for everyone here :-)
Fladrifv: some of the remarkable names are gimli ( a golden hall) and midgard which means litterly middle earth
Fladrifv: lunch time brb
VardaValar1: Enjoy :-)
VardaValar1: Gimli is a golden hall? Intriguing
ArPharazonV: Now I'm picturing Meduseld in the shape of Gimli's head.
VardaValar1: ^^
VardaValar1: If you want to also link a Swedish version or other language, that would be fine. Some of the readers of our Links page may prefer it.
VardaValar1: I used to have a batch of Edda links on the Folklore & Mythology page, but the free server went paid. As did most others, killing off a ton of hobbyist pages.
Fladrifv: oh on my artist page could you please link to
VardaValar1: ok

VardaValar1: o - needed to mention under Web
VardaValar1: Eonwe has given us a new theme we can use for the Forum's looks. :-)
VardaValar1: You can set it in your preferences.
VardaValar1: We've been playing with it and liked this one.

ArPharazonV: There, all classes at lvl 20 in Hearthstone!
VardaValar1: Grats! Quite an accomplishment!
ArPharazonV: Bunch of new golden cards received, now I gotta get em all to 23 for the next ones ;-)
ArPharazonV: thanks :-)
VardaValar1: Fladrif, your Membership and art Cave has the new url for your personal art site now. Feel free to reload them and check that they are right.
ArPharazonV: saving and sending transcript
ArPharazon-V: saved
Varda Valar: Thanks :-)
ArPharazon-V: and sent!
ArPharazon-V: Namarie!
Varda Valar: Namarie!
ArPharazon-V (ArPharazonV) has left the room.
Varda Valar: Eddas link now on our Links page. It's an actual religious site, not straight academic.
Fladrifv: it was for the links to the edda for me :)
Fladrifv: and the other link is my own art site
Varda Valar: The Eddas were something we should have had links to, several. Didn't see any. On our Links page now.
Varda Valar: Your art link is on your art cave and the Membership page
Fladrifv: thank you varda :)
Varda Valar: My pleasure :-)
Fladrifv: you are always helpful :)
Varda Valar:
Varda Valar:
Varda Valar:
Varda Valar: You're helping me keep the site up to date, much appreciated.