Valar Guild

June 29, 2014 Sunday Meeting

5pm EDT (UTC/GMT - 5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by
Ar-Pharazon and Varda.

Attending: (7)
    AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Fladrifv, Gilraen-(V)/Iryenth, GwaihirValar, Indis-(V)/karakedi25, VardaValar1 (presiding)

Meeting begins
    Chat: What skills and other help did each Fellowship member bring to the team? Boromir's section is in the After-meeting.

You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya - still about 20 minutes, no worries. :-)
VardaValar1: afk
ArPharazonV: Aiya! Well, logging out of WoW anyway. Huolon died just as I arrived on the Isle, so no sense waiting around ;-)
Fladrifv has entered the room.
Fladrifv: Aiya!
ArPharazonV: I'll poke Arien anyway before I leave bnet.
Fladrifv: I made it to the meeting :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
Fladrifv: or am I too early
Fladrifv: im slightly out of sync...
ArPharazonV: Just a bit.
Fladrifv: :-)
karakedi25 has entered the room.
karakedi25: aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
VardaValar1: back
VardaValar1: Aiya
karakedi25: afk
VardaValar1: You're just fine, Fladrif, I'm a tad late, making deluxe potatoes. Fangorn took over for me.
VardaValar1: Just tried to invite Finrod, not sure he'll make it in.

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Membership:
VardaValar1: Good to see Phar, Flad, and Indis here. Yay!
GwaihirValar has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Arien did respond when I poked her, not sure why she's not here yet!
VardaValar1: Aiya Gwaihir :-)
GwaihirValar: good afternoon folks
Iryenth has entered the room.
VardaValar1: She's usually in a WoW rp this time of day.
VardaValar1: Aiya Gilraen :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
VardaValar1: Any Membership news anyone would care to share?
ArPharazonV: To both of you!
Iryenth: Aiya. Nothing here.
VardaValar1: Tickled to see Fladrif here at such a time of day!
VardaValar1: or night, heh.
VardaValar1: Hi from Fangorn, Bilbo, and Sauron on this side of the screen.

VardaValar1: Web:
VardaValar1: Tolkien Site:
AriehnV has entered the room.
AriehnV: Aiya all
VardaValar1: Mostly trying to finish up distributing the paintings into the right character spots, from the Bohemian Weasel-(T), then starting up on the next batch, hopefully up for you this coming week.
VardaValar1: Aiya Sunshine :-)
VardaValar1: We hope to be putting up some pictures of New Zealand from Fladrif sometime, Middle-earth in our own time. :-)
Fladrifv: tries to unroot and get himself to move
VardaValar1: When he gets around to it. ^^
GwaihirValar: Takes time to sort through pictures
VardaValar1: Truth
ArPharazonV: Especially when you have branches for fingers.
GwaihirValar: That'd make it more difficult indeed.
VardaValar1: That could make it tricky.

VardaValar1: Gaming:
VardaValar1: Non-WoW, non-LotRO gaming we've done this past week.
VardaValar1: Phar, do you want to start us out?
ArPharazonV: Sure.
ArPharazonV: Done more Hearthstone, had some trouble with daily quests as you may recall, but I managed it all... and now all my classes are about to hit 23!
ArPharazonV: The June season is about to end, as June itself is, which means you've only got a day or so to grab the rainbow cardback; the new one for July has not been released yet, so we'll find out during the week :-)
ArPharazonV: Done more flashgaming, let me see if I've got a fun one to link...
ArPharazonV: Allright, let's go with which is a jumping, auto-fighting and massive collecting game where you upgrade your own strikeforce to make it through platformer-style levels.
ArPharazonV: It gets rather laggy after a while, but developer's working on fixing it, so that should be over in a few days.
ArPharazonV: Enjoy!
ArPharazonV: And I think there was something else...
VardaValar1: Good to hear they're not lettting it languish after putting it online.
ArPharazonV: Diablo III: Patch 2.1.0 is now on the ptr, if you want to try it!
ArPharazonV: And that's it for me.
VardaValar1: Thanks, Phar. Fladrif, you're up!
Fladrifv: Hoom boom!
Fladrifv: hello guild, hope everyone still recognizes me..
VardaValar1: It's... a big tree?
Fladrifv: varda I do still have legs though they are well rooted now a days
ArPharazonV: A tree with legs!
Fladrifv: I propose to move the meeting to my little hill top
Fladrifv: I made it through another round of chess in the new tournament
karakedi25: back
Fladrifv: finally made my way to rank 12 in Hearthstone, (welcome back kara)
VardaValar1: Grats :-)
Fladrifv: my goal is still becoming legendary and im fighting for it
Fladrifv: getting slowely better
ArPharazonV: You know it'll reset in a few days :-)
Fladrifv: new round new chance :-)
Fladrifv: one day I will make it
ArPharazonV: Still, any rank gained gives you a bit of a headstart in the next one, so might as well try to see how far you can get.
ArPharazonV: That's true!
ArPharazonV: (hopefully)
VardaValar1: We will all root for you! /duck
Fladrifv: and that day you get my deck so you can make it too arp
Fladrifv: great now the whole guild is in branch distance!
VardaValar1: Ahhh, shade.
ArPharazonV: If I have the cards ;-)
Fladrifv: with the amount of quests you do you can easily craft some ledgies
Fladrifv: Enjoy the shade and hereby do I give the meeting back to varda
VardaValar1: Thank you, Fladrif.
ArPharazonV: Me? I have less than 200 dust. Still, I've got 3000 gold stashed, so if I used that I could get a lot more, no doubt.
ArPharazonV: But that's for Naxxramas!
GwaihirValar: I tried HS, didn't like the way it felt like I was always playing against AI since there's no communication. Felt really bland to me. Grats on the rank though :-)
ArPharazonV: Would you prefer to be verbally abused by your opponents? :-)
GwaihirValar: If it hadn't been for communication in online games
GwaihirValar: I would've never met you guys.
GwaihirValar: So yes, I'd rather have the option to make friends
GwaihirValar: and risk 1 in a hundred games getting verbally abused
GwaihirValar: than have no chance to make friends
ArPharazonV: You can make friends, you just have no verbal base to do it on until they're on your friendslist ;-)
GwaihirValar: .... you make friends by socializing with them. Who adds random people they've never talked ot to their friends list?
ArPharazonV: *stares at facebook*
ArPharazonV: Many?
Fladrifv: I agree with you gwaihir yet hs is a nice variation on the over complicated Magic the gathering
ArPharazonV: Anyway, one point in HS is that all gameplay is, in a sense, hostile. You always play *against* other people. So communicative hostily will be more abundant.
Fladrifv: and to be honnest I dont verbally comunicate much with my chess oponents either
VardaValar1: Keeping up with the cards, having enough for a good deck, made Magic tough
ArPharazonV: *hostility
GwaihirValar: do you mean in person flad?
Fladrifv: I play chess online
GwaihirValar: ahh
Fladrifv: :-) sorry hence the comparison
ArPharazonV: Anyway, I do get your point. But I think that even if it had verbal communication of more than a handful of emotes, it might not really help you much, so maybe it's just not the game for it.
ArPharazonV: The fact that it's linked to other Blizzard games might mean that the intention is that you make friends in *other* games and then play with them in HS :-)
GwaihirValar: honestly, I felt kind of insulted by the concept to begin with.
GwaihirValar: The basic statement blizzard made is 'we don't feel our community can be trusted to talk to each other so we won't let them'
VardaValar1: Try LotRO. Raise potatoes and chat with everyone in the Shire at the same time, if you're feeling mellow.
VardaValar1: Maybe Barrens chat became too famous? : )
ArPharazonV: Isn't verbal communication regarded like.. the most devastating influence on League of Legends, for example?
GwaihirValar: It's been the best part of League of Legends for me
ArPharazonV: Because from what I hear it's mostly known for its verbal abuse.
GwaihirValar: I find that people who notice toxicity tend to be bringing it with them
GwaihirValar: If you're nice, people are nice to you.
GwaihirValar: I can honestly say that I meet people I'd call 'toxic' in maybe 1 in 20 games. That's in in around 80 people I team with.
ArPharazonV: Interesting principle, but I don't think it holds all that often over the anonymous internet. But it doesn't hurt to try anyway.
ArPharazonV: Maybe you're just more tolerant of it? Have a higher threshold, so to speak.
VardaValar1: Not nearly as anonymous as it used to be.
GwaihirValar: I think the biggest thing is that, as a species, we're instinctively trained to remember negative things.
Fladrifv: was about to say
ArPharazonV: Good point, Varda.
GwaihirValar: So it's EASY to remember those 1 in 5 or 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 negative games
VardaValar1: Maybe trained that way in school, rather than instintive, but true.
GwaihirValar: but it's very hard to remember the neutral or good experiences.
GwaihirValar: Nah, it's instinctive. Afterall, if you go back to precivilization days
GwaihirValar: that instinct could save your life
VardaValar1: Good experience makes you want to repeat something.
GwaihirValar: "I ate at that watering well and got sick, I shouldn't eat there again"
VardaValar1: True
Fladrifv: I ate that mushroom and died I shouldnt eat that anymore...
Fladrifv: oh wait
VardaValar1: But if we let a negative comment stop us from doing things, nothing will get done.
GwaihirValar: And it's been proven that it correlates into things like bad customer service, etc.
GwaihirValar: That's the purpose behind that thought experiment where half a grou pfo people are asked to provide examples of bad customer service and the other half are asked to provide examples of good customer service.
GwaihirValar: the one side's list is miles lnog
GwaihirValar: the other side has almost nothing
VardaValar1: Right. But they do notice the good customer service at some level and return.
Fladrifv: winning a customer takes years, loosing him a bad comment
GwaihirValar: ya, but it's subconscious whereas bad is a much more conscious awareness
GwaihirValar: which goes back to my original point that people think the communities online are so toxic because they're REMEMBERING the bad experiences so clearly
VardaValar1: True, one off day and snap at someone, that's all they may remember even after years of friendly chat.
GwaihirValar: but the good and neutral ones may subconsciously affect them towards those individuals, but the negative makes them feel the entire thing is horrible.
ArPharazonV: And maybe that's the reason why Blizzard does such things.
karakedi25: I think it is deep-down survival reflexes.
VardaValar1: Good experience at this restaurant, so the whole restaurant is good.
ArPharazonV: If the bad things are so much more noticeable than the good things, might as well keep the whole thing in neutral.
GwaihirValar: I'm pretty sure the ACTUAL reason behind it is that they're trying ot promote the ipad version of it.
GwaihirValar: But... I don't see the value of denying people 99 friends to avoid them making 1 enemy.
GwaihirValar: Or to use my earlier numbers from my lol experience, 80 friends for 1 potential bad experience
Fladrifv: reason is simple interface and less distraction during the game
Fladrifv: because its quite fast pased and turn based
Fladrifv: to chat could distract the active player
ArPharazonV: Well you can still talk to other people while playing.
Fladrifv: magic is more both are continuously thinking
Fladrifv: and often one mis step will make you loose the game
Fladrifv: (so far my 2 cents :-) )
ArPharazonV: Do you think Hearthstone might simply be more frustrating as a whole, to your opponent, by its own mechanics? Might have people complaining to other people that they should pick their bloody cards already or end turn!
GwaihirValar: I'd say LoL would be far more frustrating
GwaihirValar: because you're relying on other people
ArPharazonV: Yes, but you don't really have to wait for anyone else while doing it.
ArPharazonV: Except whatever passes for the lobby, of course (haven't actually played the game, though I know the DotA principle).
GwaihirValar: It's funny that I'm having this discussion again because I actually wrote an article on the subject about 2 months ago lol
Fladrifv: think of it as with presentations, repetition is the key to succesfully making a statement
GwaihirValar: hehe true
Fladrifv: (I have done my fair bit of customer visits and presentations :-) )
VardaValar1: I was just trying to locate your article on your website, Gwaihir. Not finding it.
GwaihirValar: was back in early May so it's probably a few pages back
VardaValar1: Thank you.
GwaihirValar: Certainly :-)
GwaihirValar: Speaking of my website, that's probably as good a reminder as I'm going to get that I need to finish the post I'm writing right now lol
VardaValar1: heh
VardaValar1: In other gaming news,
GwaihirValar: (sorry for sidetracking everything for so long!)
VardaValar1: I let it go, all were enjoying it.
VardaValar1: The launcher for Starcraft 2 will also be moving to the Desktop App.
Fladrifv: ( really enjoyed the discussion Gwai!)
ArPharazonV: Looking at your post, it does seem to be that you have a higher threshold than many; that what they say as abusive behavior, you call "a little more expressive".
ArPharazonV: *is
VardaValar1: Nicely said. :-)
VardaValar1: Diablo 3: Patch 2.1.0 is on the PTR. You can check out the PTR patch notes for details.
VardaValar1: I chatted briefly with Thingol while he was in Diablo 3, and he's still active.
VardaValar1: Arien, you were on D3 recently I think?
VardaValar1: Bilbo and Fangorn were trying out StarCraft 2
VardaValar1: Bilbo is mainly still in EverQuest2
VardaValar1: The Pathfinder tabletop game was well attended yesterday despite heavy rain. Included Sauron, Gimli, and myself.

VardaValar1: WoW news:
AriehnV: havent been on Diablo for a while
VardaValar1: Warlords of Draenor moved from Alpha to Beta.
VardaValar1: ah ok
AriehnV: i dont have the expansion
VardaValar1: egins-6-27-2014
VardaValar1: Art showing the new male human model:
VardaValar1: showing the difference
ArPharazonV: I have the expansion. But.. I've not actually played it yet ;-)
VardaValar1: A preview of another zone in Warlords of Draeno
VardaValar1: The Desktop App will be the launcher for WoW soon.
VardaValar1: StarCraft 2 is also there, as mentioned earlier.
VardaValar1: Any other WoW news?
Fladrifv: and D3
VardaValar1: Very good. Thanks.
VardaValar1: I was on WoW again for the first time in 6 months, since the authenticator was at home, hah.
VardaValar1: Saw Elwing, just missed Glorfindel.
ArPharazonV: Hmm, catch-up time?
VardaValar1: Looking around a bit, mostly.

VardaValar1: LotRO:
VardaValar1: Monday the game and account servers will be down, expected time 6am to 3pm Eastern.
VardaValar1: Irmo, Miriel, and Annael joined up with Hurin on LotRO for the summer, trying to bring their characters up to 95. :-)
VardaValar1: I've been working away collecting emerald shards for gear from Quickbeam, and trying to top off deeds before the expansion.
VardaValar1: A quick mention about Ventrilo
VardaValar1: It's been down due to disuse, but we can start it up again.
VardaValar1: It's usable in all our games.
VardaValar1: Irmo would like help paying for it. Easy enough, I've helped before. We use a PayPal widget and can put such a widget on our site.
VardaValar1: We'd appreciate help. Not terribly expensive, especially spread out.
Iryenth has left the room.
VardaValar1: Indis has some LotRO news about the incoming expansion. Go ahead, Indis.
Iryenth has entered the room.
karakedi25: First, it's not really an expansion. They're calling it an update, and the landmass (western Gondor) is probably more suitable as an update than an expansion.
karakedi25: I've spent some time in the beta, and the landscape is beautiful. Some of the quests are quite interesting, and we get to take on Corsairs who have overrun Edhelond.
karakedi25: As I understand it, there will be server-wide tasks to turn in tokens to unlock some of the more advanced quests in Dol Amroth, which is amazing.
karakedi25: Unfortunately it's not very convenient for crafting, so I'll probably continue to craft in Rohan.
VardaValar1: I'll bet servers will compete to open up quests first. : )
karakedi25: Very likely.
karakedi25: It's looking as though there will be a good bit of grind for barter items, though there appear to be repeatable quests.
VardaValar1: Galtrev still seems like a good crafting spot.
karakedi25: Galtrev is good. Aldburg is even better.
karakedi25: I go to Galtrev to farm.
karakedi25: barter items will require a lot of regional tokens, along the same lines as those in Entwood.
karakedi25: There are still a few things that need to be fixed, so I hope they will take thir time before they make it live.
VardaValar1: Yes, please, quality first.
karakedi25: There's also a level cap rise to 100.
VardaValar1: Five points up.
karakedi25: Yes.
karakedi25: That's about all I can think of at the moment.
karakedi25: Oh yes, there are a number of Dol Amroth quests that open up at 100. (I'm still at 96.)
VardaValar1: Thanks, Indis :-)
VardaValar1: Very much looking forward to the Paths of the Dead and Dol Amroth.
VardaValar1: Any further comments, suggestions, last minute thoughts?
karakedi25: Not from me atm.

VardaValar1: Tolkien:
VardaValar1: We may come at this next topic as gamers, but also with some story and character thought. What skills and other help each Fellowship member brought to the team
VardaValar1: ?
VardaValar1: *did
VardaValar1: *Must learn to type.*

ArPharazonV: Sam could cook.

VardaValar1: What skills and other help did each Fellowship member bring to the team?

VardaValar1: Gandalf?
ArPharazonV: He could make the cooking fire ;-)
VardaValar1: Even in deep snow!
VardaValar1: O come on. He was bound to have some skills and help out somehow.
ArPharazonV: Pretty much the loremaster. He knew things about things!
ArPharazonV: And he'd been through Moria before.
ArPharazonV: Even if he had to follow his nose.
karakedi25: But he had a very good nose.
VardaValar1: Nice big, not quite toucan, nose.
ArPharazonV: Also a useful skill to have.
VardaValar1: He could tell Frodo the way to turn from Rivendell, and generally be a walking map.
VardaValar1: He knew the Enemy and his minons' abilities, what they might have to face.
VardaValar1: He could get them through Moria, even if he had to follow his nose.
ArPharazonV: Who else have we got?

VardaValar1: Aragonr.
VardaValar1: Aragorn even.
ArPharazonV: Good scout. Good fighter. Also knew the lay of the land. Was charismatic too, made friends in strange places.
ArPharazonV: bit of a PR manager, perhaps!

AriehnV: sam was the cook .. nice food
AriehnV: he thought practical
AriehnV: Sam i mean
AriehnV: Rope , he thought about rope too
VardaValar1: ^^
ArPharazonV: Roping's a good skill.

karakedi25: Aragorn had good leadership skills.
VardaValar1: What leadership skills did he show?
karakedi25: He took over when Gandalf fell and built up the confidence of the company...
VardaValar1: He was able to let Gandalf lead, instead of pushing ahead of him.
VardaValar1: Aye.
karakedi25: he took the lead in pursuit of the hobbits, and he gained the respect of the Rohirrim.
VardaValar1: He considered each member of the party.
ArPharazonV: He also knew when to let the company drift apart, when it needed to.
ArPharazonV: Though I might be talking movie here.
VardaValar1: Aye, as in letting Frodo go on his own with Sam when it was necessary.
karakedi25: Thought on his feet.

VardaValar1: Merry and Pippin made great decoys. They were the other pair of hobbits, pulling attention away from Frodo and Sam.
karakedi25: comic relief
ArPharazonV: fodder?
VardaValar1: All of the hobbits lacked the desire for power, no doubt frustrating the Ring and helping their companions.
ArPharazonV: I suppose Merry was good with boats :-)
VardaValar1: Their continued natural behavior would help ground the others.
VardaValar1: Merry also provided ponies, and the Crickhollow cover for Frodo.
VardaValar1: Merry stabbed the nazgul, making the Witch-king vulnerable to Eowyn's sword.
VardaValar1: He used the stealth of a hobbit, a very considerable ability.
VardaValar1: Pippin saved Faramir by doing what he could see that he could do best, calling in the very big guns of Gandalf.
VardaValar1: Pippin saved Beregond from the Mountain Troll in front of the Black Gate

VardaValar1: Any more on Sam? Some try to say he was the true hero of the book.
karakedi25: loyal, brave, steady
ArPharazonV: Loyal to the end, even when he was in over his head.
VardaValar1: He kept his eyes on just helping Frodo, not letting the rest of it all overwhelm him.
karakedi25: willing to subordinate his own needs to Frodo's and those of the rest of the company
VardaValar1: He could cook. He carried large loads.
karakedi25: He carried large loads figuratively as well as literally.
VardaValar1: His bravery made him able to stand up to Aragorn in Bree, to save Frodo.
VardaValar1: Agreed, Indis. :-)
ArPharazonV: I think he also managed to see things that others couldn't, perhaps because of his simple nature. Looking through motivations, drawing perhaps not so obvious conclusions...
ArPharazonV: Like with Gollum.
ArPharazonV: And with the way he looked at the Elves.
VardaValar1: He could see Gollum wasn't to be trusted with the Ring and Frodo. And he was right.
VardaValar1: He thought the Elves were a bit above his likes and dislikes. I wonder if that made him stand-offish with Legolas?
ArPharazonV: Or stalkerishly obsessive :-)

VardaValar1: How about Frodo? Why was he chosen over all of the other free people in Middle-earth, to carry the One Ring?
VardaValar1: Or that. : )
karakedi25: Among other things, Gandalf described him as the best of the hobbits.
VardaValar1: True.
ArPharazonV: Well grounded and resilient, but also more open to the world outside than other hobbits.
ArPharazonV: Best of both worlds, perhaps.
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: He was already somewhat familiar with the outside from his association with Bilbo.
karakedi25: he probably had a wider perspective than the other hobbits, so he knew more or less what he was getting into but chose to do it anyway
karakedi25: he understood the consequences of failure well
ArPharazonV: As for why he was chosen to carry the Ring... I don't believe there was much choice in the matter.
ArPharazonV: The Ring had come to Bilbo, and to him, and it was up to him to figure out what to do with it. Or so he felt, anyway.
VardaValar1: He already had all a Hobbit might want, yet without ties that would prevent him from leaving the Shire and probably dying on the way. Harder for Sam with Rosie back in the Shire.
VardaValar1: Bilbo was chosen to get the Ring. No accident.
VardaValar1: Therefore Frodo was chosen.
ArPharazonV: Right.
VardaValar1: He was able to feel pity for Gollum and let him live. Chances are the other hobbits would have skewered him.
VardaValar1: Saruman commented that Frodo had grown, and he is shown as wise, seeing into other's hearts.

VardaValar1: What about Gimli? Why would he be good to have in the group?
ArPharazonV: Hmm.
karakedi25: tougher than nails
ArPharazonV: Good warrior also, I suppose.. and knew his way around caves.
karakedi25: loyal to his promises
karakedi25: courageous (riding horses, Paths of the Dead)
ArPharazonV: Bit intimidating, maybe.
VardaValar1: He was a big help to Gandalf in Moria, an encouragement, familiar with the kind of place they were in.
karakedi25: 'persuasive' about Galadriel
VardaValar1: His ability to see the good of Galadriel changed the relationship of elves and dwarves in the long run as well as the short.
VardaValar1: Even gave him a boat ride to Valinor.
ArPharazonV: Perfect guy to mend interractial feuds, then!
VardaValar1: Aye, and he probably had to.

VardaValar1: Oh, with Merry and Pippin, we left out that they saved the day by igniting the ents to march on Orthanc and the huorns to march to Helm's Deep.

VardaValar1: What about Legolas?
ArPharazonV: For his part, also didn't seem to hate dwarves too much, and was able to become friends with Gimli.
ArPharazonV: Also a good scout, great marksman.. and could walk over snow?
VardaValar1: True
VardaValar1: Also, as an elf he helped with communications in the elf places - especially Lorien. One would have expected Aragorn to step up more there.
VardaValar1: Legolas' song about Nimrodel clued in the Lorien elves right away.
VardaValar1: Then he was expected to watch the party in Lorien, especially watch that dwarf.
VardaValar1: He shot down a flying fell beast in the dark. That forced the nazgul to lose his body and have to go back to Sauron nearly as soon as he got there. Bet that talking to didn't go well.
ArPharazonV: "You did what...?"
VardaValar1: ^^
ArPharazonV: "That fell beast was a brand new model, and you wrecked it on the first night!"
VardaValar1: You know how hard those things are to breed and get up to size? How much they eat?
VardaValar1: And who they eat?
VardaValar1: Even before Galadriel, Legolas helped the grieving Gimli leave Balin's tomb.
VardaValar1: He aided in shooting the wargs that attacked them outside Moria, stopping many before they could reach the group and had to be singly hacked at.
VardaValar1: He thought the message he was given about the gulls meant he was going to die when he went to the Sea, but went anyway to help.
VardaValar1: He uplifted their spirits on the boat, as he scented the breeze and it gave him good news.
ArPharazonV: Elves. Always in touch with nature.
VardaValar1: And he shot things up. :-)
karakedi25: I think his far sight was more than physical.
VardaValar1: Agreed.
VardaValar1: He could even understand the stones that had been built into structures by elves, getting words from them.
karakedi25: Legolas had the long-distance perspective of his longevity. He could see current events in a deep historical context.
karakedi25: So in some ways, he was detached in a way the others weren't.
karakedi25: Except Gandalf and possibly Aragorn to a lesser degree.
VardaValar1: Sometimes that wasn't a good thing for him. When he saw the Balrog of Morgoth, he knew they were in over their heads.
karakedi25: That should have been a good signal to the others: if he was rattled, there was something to be rattled by
ArPharazonV: Still a better thing than if everyone just wants to charge it ;-)
VardaValar1: Aye
VardaValar1: Gandalf agreed, wanting them all to leave so he could do a rear guard action.
VardaValar1: The Ring had to escape.
VardaValar1: Guess what, Sauron. The Balrog of Moria has your Ring.
karakedi25: That would have been interesting.
karakedi25: Everyone bring popcorn....
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: I thnk Sauron would have the advantage in brain power for sure.
karakedi25: but not necessarily strength
ArPharazonV: And the balrog could hide!
karakedi25: a lot of Sauron's power was in the Ring
VardaValar1: Sauron also could command massive armies. Be interesting to see which one the Moria Orcs would obey, and if they would split.
VardaValar1: The Ring would want to return to Sauron, something prospective owners like Gollum keep losing sight of.
VardaValar1: Just rolls off at the inopportune moment, like when Isildur is in the Anduin River.
ArPharazonV: Still, someone with sufficient power..
ArPharazonV: and if there's anything a balrog has?
VardaValar1: There's the balrog, huffing and puffing, flapping shadowy wings, and the Ring rolls away to Sauron.
ArPharazonV: Well, maybe not the intelligence and willpower.
VardaValar1: Balrog toast.
VardaValar1: Does anyone have any further comments, suggestions, other?
karakedi25: Time for a bang, ting, or whatever?
VardaValar1: *raises hammer*
VardaValar1: *ker-bonnnnng*

VardaValar1: After-meeting!
VardaValar1: Happy gaming or chatting. : )
karakedi25: kind of tired--I'm going to log out
karakedi25: have a good week, all
karakedi25 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Namarie Indis!
VardaValar1: Namarie Indis
GwaihirValar has left the room.
VardaValar1: Namarie Gwaihir :-)
AriehnV: Namarie
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
AriehnV: :-)
AriehnV has left the room.
VardaValar1: Namarie Arien :-)
ArPharazonV: saving and sending transcript
Varda Valar: Namarie Arien :-)
ArPharazon-V: saving and sending transcript
ArPharazon-V: saved
Iryenth has left the room.
Varda Valar: Thank you
ArPharazon-V: You know, we missed Boromir.
Varda Valar: ack
ArPharazon-V: Too bad the Orcs didn't!
Varda Valar: heh
Varda Valar: Ok, how did Boromir contribute? :-)
ArPharazon-V: Ehr.
ArPharazon-V: Distraction?
ArPharazon-V: Seriously though, he also was well capable of surviving in the wild, and a good
warrior. I'm sure he did his part in protecting the rest of the party :)
Varda Valar: Agreed
Varda Valar: He helped them survive in the snow of Mount Caradhras.
ArPharazon-V: Yes, very true.
Varda Valar: He forced a path, he carried them.
Varda Valar: He did seem to care about the hobbits.
ArPharazon-V: He was a good man. But too easily swayed.
Varda Valar: He fought well anytime they needed melee.
Varda Valar: He was too near a modern man. Use any weapon available for the defense of one's
home and people.
ArPharazon-V: Had a shield too! I think.
Varda Valar: Aye, he did. Only one that did.
ArPharazon-V: In the movie anyway!
ArPharazon-V: transcript sent
Varda Valar: Thank you
Varda Valar: You're going to have to re-read the book to get your confidence back, good buddy. :-)
ArPharazon-V: I will. But, and I'm sure I mentioned this before, I've not been much of a
reader the last few years. I find reading rather tiring, and don't usually get further than a few pages.
Varda Valar: I'm sorry
ArPharazon-V: Slowly picking up again though, so maybe it'll get better :)
Varda Valar: yay!
Varda Valar: Maybe audio books. :-)
ArPharazon-V: Nah, too difficult to go back and forth and repeat parts.
Varda Valar: You need a live reader, heh.
Varda Valar: On long trips, Fangorn and I keep each other awake by reading to each other. Read
a lot of books like that.
ArPharazon-V: Not bad.
ArPharazon-V: Anyway, gotta go
Varda Valar: Sleeeeeep...  :-)
ArPharazon-V: Make sure to save the bit about Boromir at least ;)
Varda Valar: Ok
ArPharazon-V: Namarie
ArPharazon-V (ArPharazonV) has left the room.
Varda Valar: Namarie