December 14, 2014 Sunday Meeting
EST (UTC/GMT - 5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
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Transcript work by Ar-Pharazon and Varda.
Arien-(Valar)/AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Indis-(V)/karakedi25, Gwaihir Valar, VardaValar1 (presiding)
Eonwe's new Games Site is up
Heroes of the Storm
Topic: Was the One Ring a trinket or a character? Why do you think so?
Topic: New photos and videos posted ahead of the third Hobbit movie.
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
karakedi25 has entered the room.
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Phar and Indis :-)
karakedi25: feeling kind of punk, so probably won't stay on long
ArPharazonV: I'm assuming you're not referring to the lifestyle.
karakedi25: no, I'm not feeling well
AriehnV has entered the room.
AriehnV: Aiya all :-)
karakedi25: sleeping helps, but I wanted to pop in and say hi
karakedi25: aiya arien
VardaValar1: Glad you could drop by :-)
ArPharazonV: Ah, you're here. Then I don't have to log back into bnet ;-)
karakedi25: Sorry to miss the meeting, but I really need to get more sleep. Hope it goes well.
ArPharazonV: Get well soon!
karakedi25 has left the room.
VardaValar1: Hi from Eowyn who just phoned, and hi from Fangorn, Bilbo,
and Sauron who are doing a carpentry project near my computer. :-)
VardaValar1: Ok, all invites sent that I can see. Think the list needs an update.
VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
ArPharazonV: Hi to all of those!
GwaihirValar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Hi back. :-)
ArPharazonV: And Aiya to Gwai!
VardaValar1: Aiya Eagle!
GwaihirValar: hello. I probably won't be too talkative, really sick right now... but I'm here
VardaValar1: We're ready to watch your kin in the next Hobbit movie.
VardaValar1: You take it easy, relax. Glad you could drop in.
VardaValar1: Hi to Gilraen. :-)
ArPharazonV: You're not the only one who's ill apparently.
VardaValar1: Think it's partly the time of year, weather shifting around crazily.
VardaValar1: Maybe it'll settle down and let us adapt.
VardaValar1: Eonwe has put up the new version of the Games Site, re-programmed with a new look, new ways of showing the info.
VardaValar1: He'd appreciate member's input and bug spotting.
VardaValar1: And if you really like it, let him know that too. :-)
VardaValar1: That was an awful lot of work, a labor of love.
VardaValar1: Interesting links were sent in this week:
VardaValar1: Pallando sent a link to this article
VardaValar1: "Interview with Benjamin Harff, upcoming Tolkien illustrator and creator of the Edel-Silmarillion"
VardaValar1: and Gorlim sent a link to this amazing interview by Stephen Colbert of Smaug:
VardaValar1: If you havent' already checked them out, these could be
interesting. For the sick ones, you might want to watch the interview
with Smaug to cheer you up. :-)
VardaValar1: Number one of course is the newly rebuilt Games Site by Eonwe, just mentioned, and from which I shall crib.
VardaValar1: World of WarCraft:
VardaValar1: Check out the
VardaValar1: He doesn't mention LotRO, but
VardaValar1: the LotRO launcher news told us this for tomorrow, quite exciting:
VardaValar1: The LOTRO Game Servers will be brought down on Monday,
December 15th from 7:00AM - 12:00PM Eastern (-5 GMT) to launch Update
15.1. Patch notes will be available during the downtime. Thanks for
your patience, and we'll see you back in the game soon!
VardaValar1: sorry about the font
ArPharazonV: Font's fine in this version ;-)
VardaValar1: o good. In mine, it went gigantic, heh.
VardaValar1: Diablo 3:
VardaValar1: oh, sorry, one more on WoW first:
VardaValar1: Also, the Feast of Winterveil will be starting this week. Get the achievements while you can!
VardaValar1: Diablo 3:
VardaValar1: The PTR patch notes
have been updated.
VardaValar1: "The Story of Diablo" on Blizzard's site has also been updated to reflect the story in Reaper of Souls.
VardaValar1: Hearthstone's first expansion, Goblins vs. Gnomes,
Check out the
VardaValar1: Heroes of the Storm:
VardaValar1: A new blog has been posted:
From the Bullpen: Heroes and Villians.
VardaValar1: If you have a favorite game and would like to post
some news about it, try sending it to Eonwe for the Games Site, maybe
me too for the News page.
VardaValar1: Any other general gaming news?
VardaValar1: A quick bit of news from an email from Eonwe:
VardaValar1: In personal WoW gaming news, I'm now at 198/200 mounts. 2 more and I've got the achievement.
VardaValar1: Any other news, suggstions, comments, compliments, gripes you'd like to mention?
VardaValar1: (This has been the most ungripey group I've been around,
but feel free to let me know if there are problems before they become
large and a worse problem.)
VardaValar1: Anyone still here and ready for Tolkien, please type Aule.
VardaValar1: Before I give my topic, Arien has a suggestion.
AriehnV: all right
AriehnV: i was reading a fascinating article
about the last "Hobbit" cinematic installment with interviews from the
actors and recators and comments about the films including "Lotr"
trilogy and i cant remember the exact wording But i think it contained
AriehnV: "with all the special effects, epic battle scenes and acting
highlights the films never forget the authenticity of the literary
works and one of the main " characters* : the one ring"
AriehnV: So in which way during the book and before do we see that the ring is not just a trinket?
AriehnV: does the question make sense?
VardaValar1: The One Ring is not just another piece of golden jewelry to be worn on a finger.
ArPharazonV: It's got spooky powers. Spoooooky.
AriehnV: Enlighten me oh golden one and starry one :-)
VardaValar1: It responds to the call of Sauron, who poured his malice
and part of his power into it. It carries a bit of Sauron, dividing the
Maia from his wholeness when not worn.
VardaValar1: It has a bit of sentience as it tries to return to Sauron.
ArPharazonV: It can make people invisible (or, more accurately, phase-shift em over to the shadow world).
ArPharazonV: It can make people addicted to it.
ArPharazonV: And yes, it uses its wearer to further its own goals.
VardaValar1: The Ring left Isildur, attempting to return home. Orcs
were nearby and could have picked it up after killing Isildur.
ArPharazonV: It can subtly change its own size to fit on certain fingers, or drop off when it wants to.
VardaValar1: But it's design was foiled and it fell to the bottom of
the Anduin River, lying there long years until Deagol found it.
VardaValar1: Deagol and Smeagol with him were entranced by it, wanting
it for themselves. Smeagol killed Deagol in response, as it worked with
ArPharazonV: While it can make itself *feel* heavier by the wearer, or
maybe that's an effect of getting closer to Mount Doom/Mordor... it
doesn't actually *become* heavier, or Sam might have had a heap of
trouble trying to carry Frodo.
VardaValar1: Good point, Phar.
VardaValar1: The Ring has a huge effect on the story, like a major character.
ArPharazonV: Allright, I'll let you continue the narrative :-)
VardaValar1: You all know it already and I like hearing what you have to say too. :-)
VardaValar1: Smeagol used the power of the Ring to be not just a sneak
thief but to invisibly gather info he used to blackmail the others of
VardaValar1: He became such a pain that his grandmother, matriarch of
their people, (pre-Stoor Hobbits or early Stoors), exiled him.
ArPharazonV: ...How would she know he was actually gone?
VardaValar1: He felt abused rather then repentent, and had stopped
looking up, an effect of the Ring, not liking light, so he went under
the mountains to look for their roots.
VardaValar1: He would no longer be having a bad effect on her people. By their fruits, shall you know where Gollum is. :-)
ArPharazonV: Bilbo didn't seem to mind light.
VardaValar1: The mountain just happened to be where Goblin Town was. Doubt that was an accident.
VardaValar1: Bilbo was not so controlled as Gollum.
ArPharazonV: He still had it for 60 years.
VardaValar1: The Ring was trapped under the mountain, not reaching the
goblins. So when Sauron put out his Call, the Ring left Gollum,
expecting one of the goblins that had just been stirred up.
VardaValar1: Bilbo picked it up instead, meant to have it. The implication being that the Valar intervened.
VardaValar1: Gollum had not much needed invisibility in the dark, and was a hobbit, so he didn't easily become a wraith.
VardaValar1: Bilbo was of much stronger character, not just a little bit.
VardaValar1: He only used the Ring now and then with good intentions, avoiding dangers or undesirable relatives.
ArPharazonV: Ring must have been so frustrated.
VardaValar1: For sure!
VardaValar1: But any of the users had the need to protect the Ring.
Bilbo was a good, protective person already and it may have used that.
ArPharazonV: There it was, in the pocket of a kind-hearted Hobbit in a
country of kind-hearted Hobbits, none of them having any desire to
VardaValar1: So when he passed it on, it went to the person whom he felt most for and who inherited everything else as well.
VardaValar1: Aye to that.
ArPharazonV: And when Bilbo finally went out again, Ring got left behind for another 17 years.
VardaValar1: Nice timing.
ArPharazonV: Can't have been happy about that!
VardaValar1: Gandalf helped with that as a probable instrument of the Valar, not really understanding what was going on yet.
VardaValar1: Frodo was the most resistant to the Ring in all of Middle-earth, and the Ring was stuck with him.
ArPharazonV: Can almost feel sorry for it.
VardaValar1: It worked on a desire for power, on furthering greedy or other unpleasant characteristics.
VardaValar1: Almost. :-)
ArPharazonV: Wants to scream, but has no mouth...
VardaValar1: The horror story as writtten by the One Ring.
VardaValar1: Could be an interesting fan fic. :-)
VardaValar1: The Ring is all for Frodo's going to Mordor, but keeps
"shooting itself in the foot" with such behavior as feeling heavy to
Frodo and generallly dragging him down.
ArPharazonV: It changes hands twice more after that....
VardaValar1: That heavy feeling you mentioned earlier.
VardaValar1: Needed to ditch Frodo!
VardaValar1: Go ahead, Phar, with the changes.
ArPharazonV: first time it finds someone who's fiercely loyal to Frodo
and almost as incorruptible. Won't have been happy with that.
VardaValar1: More horror. :-)
ArPharazonV: Well I suppose the second time would have been back to
Frodo, but I meant that it switched hands to Gollum for the last time.
VardaValar1: Sam isn't interested in having a world garden that he
can't put his own hands in, so the only temptation the Ring can find
just doesn't appeal enough.
ArPharazonV: Finally someone it could use... and then Gollum dances over the edge!
VardaValar1: It was still on Frodo's finger. It didn't know it had switched who was holding it.
ArPharazonV: Oh! That's true.
ArPharazonV: But it would've sensed that Frodo's finger was no longer attached to the mind it had been poking at.
VardaValar1: Frodo had put in the warning to Gollum that if he ever
injured him or Sam after the oath of loyalty, that the Ring would make
him jump off a cliff or into fire. Both were handy!
ArPharazonV: And yet... I doubt that was wholly the Ring's intention.
VardaValar1: The Ring didn't realize it was on Gollum. It was supposed to be safe.
VardaValar1: Gollum had just bitten off Frodo's finger, a painful injury.
VardaValar1: So it did what it was pre-programmed to do, and Gollum went over a cliff into fire.
VardaValar1: A little programming area crept in, in that Gollum was still holding the finger with the Ring on it.
VardaValar1: The movie missed that.
VardaValar1: Maybe it was considered too icky?
ArPharazonV: I think it would've been seen as too silly or too.. what's the word...
VardaValar1: *error, not area. Pardon
ArPharazonV: out of left field?
ArPharazonV: Just to end it all with an accidental slip or dance.
VardaValar1: They should have had the voice-over of Frodo warning
Gollum, just as Gollum started dancing around with the finger, right by
ArPharazonV: I don't think they put in the original warning, either.
VardaValar1: They needed to play up Froro's earlier warning that was supposed to insure Gollum's loyalty.
VardaValar1: I consider Tolkien the better writer there, but wish Tolkien had pointed it out more at the end, too.
VardaValar1: Too subtle.
ArPharazonV: I'll be honest, I never noticed it until it got pointed out during one of these meetings ;-)
VardaValar1: You and a lot of others.
VardaValar1: That's why Tolkien should have brought it up again at the time.
VardaValar1: It was PJ's big chance to do better than Tolkien, by doing a voice-over right there. Would have been fantastic.
ArPharazonV: I don't think it was his style. There's a lot of
retroactive exposition, like in the Council of Rivendell, or when
Gandalf returns as the White... but there's nothing like one-liner
VardaValar1: Opportunity lost.
ArPharazonV: I don't see a way Tolkien's writing style allows that to be brought back again so literally.
VardaValar1: It could have been in italics, or Sam could have mentioned it, or Frodo could have mentioned it to Sam.
ArPharazonV: Oh, yes. It could have been mentioned afterwards. Maybe after they wake up at Cormallen.
VardaValar1: Sam could ask why Gollum did that, and Frodo could tell
him the Ring betrayed its long-time owner, and did Frodo's bidding that
let it do something terrible at the same time.
VardaValar1: Maybe while waiting to die before the eagles arrived.
VardaValar1: Arien, did we answer the question?
VardaValar1: Think maybe we lost Arien for the moment. :-)
VardaValar1: Don't forget the rp in the forum. We have bird scouts that need to return. :-)
VardaValar1: *picks up a hammer*
ArPharazonV: Perhaps they put in the scene of Frodo reaching up to Sam, and Sam saving him...
AriehnV: hehe no reading all up but you r typing too fast and all the right annswers ^^
ArPharazonV: to make it clear that their loyalty to each other is completely restored again?
VardaValar1: Ahh, typing too fast.
ArPharazonV: Well, before you *ting* I've got something else Tolkien to mention.
VardaValar1: In the book, Frodo never sent Sam away.
AriehnV: and yes topic well covered :-D
VardaValar1: Fire away. *holds hammer back*
VardaValar1: Thanks, Arien.
ArPharazonV: whoooole bunch of videos on Peter Jackson's facebook this week and the last, concerning the Hobbit and the end of the trilogy (or both trilogies).
VardaValar1: We must watch them allllll.
ArPharazonV: Trailers, montages, actors commenting on their time in New Zealand...
VardaValar1: click videos or
ArPharazonV: Let's see if I can gather them all up, but yes, it's all on there.
ArPharazonV: I use the Timeline actually.
ArPharazonV: https://www.facebook.com/PeterJacksonNZ/timeline that includes pictures too.
ArPharazonV: Eh, not gonna link them all, they're right there :-)
ArPharazonV: And they go back for about 2 and a half weeks, lot of activity in that time.
ArPharazonV: Worth the watch!
GwaihirValar has entered the room.
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Welcome back. Sure hope you saved the earlier part already.
ArPharazonV: Was I thrown out then?
ArPharazonV: ArPharazonV: Worth the watch!GwaihirValar has entered the
room.VardaValar1 has entered the room.AriehnV has entered the
room.VardaValar1: Welcome back. Sure hope you saved the earlier part
ArPharazonV: Guess so :-)
ArPharazonV: I'll save this bit.
ArPharazonV: I did think it was a bit quiet.
ArPharazonV: What did I miss?
AriehnV: nothing :-)
ArPharazonV: So it was quiet after all?
AriehnV: btw i bougfht a ticket for "battle of the five armies " on Tuesday ^^
ArPharazonV: Ah :-) Have fun there, and try not to spoil things for people at the cinema ;-)
VardaValar1: there was a little more after yours
VardaValar1: Grats, Arien :-)
ArPharazonV: Ah, feel free to paste it then.
VardaValar1: Hamson has his ahead too. Bet a bunch of folks got them early. Sure hope we can find a spot!
ArPharazonV: In here if you want it in the transcript :-)
VardaValar1: I can also grab it off of my save, but ok
ArPharazonV: Yeah but I'm too curious for that.
VardaValar1: Message failed, too long
ArPharazonV: Do it in steps!
VardaValar1: ArPharazon-V: Worth the watch!
Varda Valar: wow there are a lot.
Varda Valar: I feel some hours will be spent in front of the computer. :-)
Varda Valar: *hammer becomes restless*
Varda Valar: *swinnnnng*
Varda Valar: *ker-flommmmmm*
Varda Valar: After-meeting!
VardaValar1: ArPharazon-V (ArPharazonV) has left the room.
VardaValar1: ArPharazon-V (ArPharazonV) has entered the room.
Varda Valar: Welcome back. Sure hope you saved the earlier part already.
ArPharazon-V: Was I thrown out then?
VardaValar1: Ok, done.
ArPharazonV: Thank you :-)
VardaValar1: My pleasure. :-)
ArPharazonV: Well, it seems like a lot, but most of them are under 3 minutes, so it shouldn't be too long.
VardaValar1: Each person's comment is in a table, so a space shows up
when showing back to you, and it's a lot worse trying to copy it into
the page, as it adds in a bunch of unseen commands.
ArPharazonV: Well, I don't know what made me log out. I was just browsing through it, so my internet was still here.
ArPharazonV: AIM bug I suppose.
ArPharazonV: Anyway, if we're aftermeeting...
VardaValar1: We are, aye. Go for it. :-)
ArPharazonV: Well, not much to say on the flashgaming
front... spent most of the week on a single game which isn't all that
spectacular, to be honest, but I still wanted to complete it because I
am that way...
ArPharazonV: but I will give you a small werewolf game.
ArPharazonV: Shouldn't take you too long, but hey, at least it's something different :-)
ArPharazonV: Sort of pixel platformer where you go around avoiding or
fighting werewolves in order to save someone. Gets a bit graphic (well,
for a pixel game) but I don't think it's really that bad.
VardaValar1: Did it hold you or was it just the completionist in you?
ArPharazonV: The big one I mentioned first? Mostly just the completionist.
ArPharazonV: It was a defense game, part of a series in which I've played others. I'll give you a link anyway, because, why not?
ArPharazonV: What else.
ArPharazonV: I'm level 100 in WoW!
Got there on Wednesday, and was already allowed to raid with my normal
raid group on thursday, even though my gear was still rather weak, 600
ilevel or so.
VardaValar1: Grats Phar!
ArPharazonV: To compare: You need 610 for heroic instances, 615 for
molten core and other Lookingforraid groups, and 625 is advisable for
attempting normal raiding.
AriehnV: grats Phar :-)
ArPharazonV: And there I was at 600, dying in every fight ;-)
ArPharazonV: Thanks :-)
ArPharazonV: But since then I've climbed up to 618 in a few days, so I'm about ready to attempt Molten Core tomorrow night!
AriehnV: hehe yeah i got trouble with the silver dps on the mage even tho itemlevel is there#
ArPharazonV: Oh, yes. For heroic instances you also need to beat the
Proving Grounds silver trial for that role, forgot to mention that.
AriehnV: i get to wave 7 and fail somewhere nearly got twice through 8 .. its 8 waves
ArPharazonV: I defeated both tank and dps at 611 yesterday, though tank
took me quite a few tries. 6, I think. Really need to watch out with
fire and debuffs and your cooldowns and interrupts...
ArPharazonV: Strangely enough, dps wasn't a problem for me. I even got
the "You're doing it wrong" achievement for completing silver dps in
ArPharazonV: I wouldn't know about trying it with a mage though, maybe feral/guardian druids are just better suited for it ;-)
AriehnV: i got it with my belf pali btw after 2 hours frustration lol
AriehnV: but got there in the end
ArPharazonV: Ouch! Also dps?
ArPharazonV: I'm pretty sure that tank is a lot harder than dps... for druids at least, not sure about other classes.
ArPharazonV: Being level 100 also allows you to build a level 3
garrison, but I'm not there yet. You also need 2000 garrisons and I
couldn't get over 1200 for a few days. Just spending too much on
ArPharazonV: I'm still spamming missions for my followers, but some
questrewards got me a few hundred more, so I'm now around 1600.
ArPharazonV: Hoping to get enough during the next week, maybe as reward from heroic instances.
ArPharazonV: And then there's Hearthstone!
Make sure you log in between now and the 19th to get 3 free expansion
card packs. Including gold I'd saved up for release, and gold I've
earned since the release, I've opened about 8 packs now, I think.
ArPharazonV: Already got 2 of the cards I wanted for my druid deck, two adorable mechanical robot bearcubs :-)
AriehnV: hehe yeah mainly busy getting the followers up to level 100 ow
ArPharazonV: From here on I'll be working on filling the collection
again! There are a lot of fun cards in the expansion, though a lot of
them are rather random. Random effects, random targets...
ArPharazonV: I don't really like too much randomness in my cardgames,
even though I'm aware there's always randomness in such games :-)
ArPharazonV: Followers in the garrison? Yeah, I've got 20 now, 18 of
which are at 100 already. I'm now working on getting them to rare and
then epic quality, which takes a lot more mission experience.
ArPharazonV: That should take a few weeks at least.
ArPharazonV: You can say what you want about Garrisons, but no denying that they can keep you very busy for a long time.
AriehnV: indeed :-) I like them and even when your not having that much
time in the game always time to sort out one garrison at least
ArPharazonV: I only have one garrison and it's already taking up an hour of every day ;-)
ArPharazonV: Followers and missions, work orders for leather, mining,
fishing, a herb garden, trapping animals for the barn, and now at 100,
the daily quest for apexis crystals...
ArPharazonV: If I was doing all that on multiple characters I wouldn't even have time to quest or raid!
VardaValar1: Garrisons sound kind of interesting, but add another grind. Is it worth getting if you don't play often?
AriehnV: definitely yes
AriehnV: you dont need to upgrade them if u dont want to
ArPharazonV: Well there's no law against only visiting it every few
days, and some things pile up over several days so you don't miss too
much if you skip.
ArPharazonV: You can queue up work orders for several days, you can
save up your stash of resources for up to 5 days until it reaches its
limit, I think...
ArPharazonV: And while some things can be gathered every day, like the
herb garden or the mine, you don't miss out too much if you skip a few
AriehnV: and getting one is something you dont want to miss .. its a handy flight point and you get quests there as well
ArPharazonV: Same for missions. You don't have to keep your followers going full-time.
ArPharazonV: And yes, there are permanent benefits as well.
ArPharazonV: It doesn't lose its usefulness if you play less often. You
just won't get reagents as efficiently, and your followers will level
ArPharazonV: You miss out on a lot more than that if you don't get a garrison at all :-)
VardaValar1: So it's worth it.
VardaValar1: How do you get one?
ArPharazonV: You get one automatically as you start questing in
Draenor. It's the first thing you do in Shadowmoon Valley (or Frostfire
Ridge if you're Horde) after the first introduction questline in Tanaan.
VardaValar1: Thanks. :-)
ArPharazonV: I just like to build up a good stockpile of reagents and
leather as I can use it for crafting and raiding etc, and I have an
ambition to get all my followers levelled up, so for me it's worth
working at every day :-)
ArPharazonV: am I still here? ;-)
AriehnV: yes you are :-)
ArPharazonV: Good, because after last time I'm rather paranoid when I don't hear anything for a while!
VardaValar1: You are, yes.
AriehnV: *pats Phara*(
AriehnV: and yeah i ll be heading for bed *yawns* twas a long day
AriehnV: and i am looking forward to Tuesday evening :-D
AriehnV: Namarie all:-)
AriehnV has left the room.
VardaValar1: Namarie Arien
VardaValar1: yay Tuesday! :-)
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ArPharazonV: saving and sending transcript