Valar Guild

April 27, 2014 Sunday Meeting

5pm EDT (UTC/GMT - 5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by
Ar-Pharazon and Varda.

Attending: (4)
    AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Indis-(V)/karakedi25, VardaValar1 (presiding)

Meeting begins
    Need artists for forum and articles.
    My Little Investigations
    flashgaming: Pixelo
    Elder Scrolls Online
    World of WarCraft
    Lord of the Rings Online
    The Hobbit movies
    Chat topic:  What was the breadth of each of the Fellowship member's world-view? Do we see changes over the course of the journey?


You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1: Aiya Golden One :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
VardaValar1: Not many on right now
ArPharazonV: Hmm, hang on. I'll get onto the bnet launcher and see if I can find Sunny.
VardaValar1: :-)
ArPharazonV: I still prefer the old launchers for security, but just logging into the launcher doesn't take much time and you can talk to people in any blizzard game :-)
AriehnV has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Ah, there she is, and I didn't even have to warn her!
AriehnV: aiya to yo two :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya :-)
VardaValar1: Aiya Sunshine :-)
VardaValar1: I mentioned it to Indis. She was kind enough to tap my shoulder last week. :-)

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Membership:
VardaValar1: I'm still in Arizona, probably til mid-May
ArPharazonV: The more often you keep saying that, the closer mid-May gets!
karakedi25 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Huzzah for that!
karakedi25: aiya
ArPharazonV: Aiya!
VardaValar1: Aiya Indis :-)
VardaValar1: Any other Membership news?

VardaValar1: Web:
VardaValar1: Eonwe and I are requesting you artistic types to help come up with a nice forum banner, and other.
VardaValar1: Also, we could use Beorning art.
VardaValar1: or art for any article, poem etc

VardaValar1: Gaming:

VardaValar1: Any non-WoW, non-LotRO gaming this past week?
ArPharazonV: Yepper. Besides some more My Little Investigations and some Hearthstone (100 wins achievement this week! Also, season ending next week, so make sure to get your rank!) I'm still doing flashgaming, and today I came across a great little puzzle game.
VardaValar1: That's a lot of wins!
ArPharazonV: If you're familiar with the Picross puzzles, it's about making images out of a grid of squares by calculating which squares to color in, by the numbers on the sides of the puzzle.
ArPharazonV: And this particular game has hundreds of puzzles, badges and upgrades to earn, a lot of customization options (which you can unlock with in-game money, which you earn by completing puzzles) and, once you get far enough, which I haven't yet, a daily new puzzle, apparently.
ArPharazonV: So if you like that type of puzzle, this'll keep you busy for a long long time!
VardaValar1: *pulls hands off Rubik's Cube*. Puzzle, you say?
ArPharazonV: *grin* Rubik's Cube is fun, but it's the re-scrambling after you're done that annoys me ;-) I should see if I can find a game about it!
ArPharazonV: Anyway, that's it from me :-)
VardaValar1: A whole stack of cubes!

VardaValar1: Thanks, Phar. Arien, go ahead.
AriehnV: I have actually given in to temptation and tried Elder Scrolls Online
AriehnV: played on the European Megaserver for a bit to see whether i like it and trying out various classes , getting hold of the mechanic basics and such , and its quite nice
karakedi25: what do you think of it?
AriehnV: nice graphics , i like the way you do combat and that all classes can wear all kind of armour and weapons
AriehnV: or most anyway
VardaValar1: Any point to having different classes then?
AriehnV: but each kind of armour enhances different status things
AriehnV: like cloth gives better spell pwer or spell crit
AriehnV: heavy armor enhances stamina
AriehnV: medium is agility i think
AriehnV: so depends on what you want for your character and of course the different classes have different skills
AriehnV: the story seems to be quite nice .. mind you i didnt play Skyrim before so i dont know the background lorewise
AriehnV: but it has a main questline for each race and then minor quests in each area
ArPharazonV: Sounds pretty much like the mechanics from the Elder Scrolls series; at least it reminds me of Morrowind. Able to use all weapons and armor, but some classes were better with some types of weapons and armor, and all the other skills were different between them too.
AriehnV: aye
AriehnV: crafting sounds a bit complicated but i havent really figured that out yet or tried it out
AriehnV: seems you need three kind of reagents
AriehnV: before you can combine them for different items
AriehnV: professions seem to be accessible for all classes
AriehnV: combat works with mouse / key combined so it s a bit more straineous on the wrist .. i find at least
AriehnV: more than that i cannot say yet
AriehnV: but i had a fairly good impression
AriehnV: and playing it while being in wow as well doesnt seem to affect either game lagwise
AriehnV: so thats nice too :-)
karakedi25: I tried it in beta, and it was fun
ArPharazonV: That's usually saying more about the quality of your computer and internet connection :-)
AriehnV: but yes thats all from me on that side
AriehnV: i ll looks for Finrod once i am on that server :-)
AriehnV: if i can with the time difference that is hehe
VardaValar1: You seem pretty good at going across time zones, like right now. :-)
VardaValar1: He'd like that. Might put your name on the forum thread after you make the character.

VardaValar1: Any WoW news?
VardaValar1: Guess you've all seen the Warlords of Draenor alpha patch notes?
VardaValar1: 014
VardaValar1: Any other WoW news? Heartstone has helped Phar. :-)
ArPharazonV: Well, more ambling around the Timeless Isle for me.
ArPharazonV: I've restricted my farming to Rock Moss, a specific rare, and a certain patrol path for killing ancient spineclaws, which can spawn monstrous spineclaws, which drop a pet I want. Been locking down the most efficient methods for both, and while it's not paid off yet, I'm sure that's just a matter of time.
ArPharazonV: To make spineclaw-hunting a bit easier, I've added a new hunt to my schedule, once every one or two days I go down to Vashj'ir to look for Poseidus, who drops a seahorse mount which greatly increases underwater movement :-)
ArPharazonV: But that's still rather rare to get, and even now there still appears to be some competition for it.
ArPharazonV: Also, new pet this week from a rare mob I've been killing in the Dread Wastes!
ArPharazonV: The pet is called an Aqua Strider, so naturally I called it....
ArPharazonV: Aquagorn.
ArPharazonV: Son of Aquathorn, if anyone asks!
ArPharazonV: And that's it from me :-)
karakedi25: chief of the Dunedain
ArPharazonV: Yep!
VardaValar1: hehe

VardaValar1: LotRO:
VardaValar1: The new class is definitely going to be the Beornings, as you've heard. More plans are also mentioned
VardaValar1: I think we showed this already, but still cool.
ArPharazonV: Ah! Are they racially restricted then, as we speculated?
VardaValar1: To help with planning and making things better, the Devs have a Player Council started last year.
VardaValar1: Most classes have some racial restriction, so probably.
VardaValar1: Anyway, some of
karakedi25: I hope not. We already have a human only class
VardaValar1: the old player council is now mentoring the new council.
VardaValar1: Captain?
karakedi25: yes, captain
VardaValar1: And the list of new Player Council members is up.
VardaValar1: Please note that one of the names is Karakedi.
VardaValar1: yep, that Karakedi. :-)
karakedi25: assuming you know who that is
ArPharazonV: Hmm, there's no 25 at the end though!
karakedi25: pffft
VardaValar1: Indis, you're under a non-disclosure agreement, but can you tell us anything about what that entails?
karakedi25: The NDA is very strict, so I won't be able to say much. It does appear I will be working quite hard, which is fine for a mouthy person like me.
karakedi25: Essentially it's a long-term focus group.
ArPharazonV: Gotta keep your focus then!
karakedi25: Doing my best! It should be fun, and I like being able to use some of my cognitive and other skills.
VardaValar1: So we get to tell you suggestions, comments on new stuff, and help that way, even if we can't expect action on those things?
karakedi25: That's right. And I won't be able to tell you what happens to your suggestions, but I'll certainly take them seriously.
VardaValar1: Good to have someone on there we can trust to consider stuff. Thank you. :-)
ArPharazonV: But you can reveal that you'll take them seriously? ;-)
karakedi25: *thinks: little does she know*
VardaValar1: *naive*
karakedi25: that's a personal statement, Phar, not about Council content
ArPharazonV: Ah! So you can reveal that *you* will take them seriously, but not whether the rest of the Council will take them seriously.
karakedi25: exactly
karakedi25: there are 54 people on the Council plus Turbine folks. Lots of room for lots of points of view. (not a secret how many are on)
VardaValar1: Takes that many to get enough answers from enough types to work with.
karakedi25: I think it's also no secret that they were looking for a lot of diversity in play style and point of view
ArPharazonV: If it was, it's not anymore!
karakedi25: :p
karakedi25: Any other questions?
VardaValar1: We'll think of something while you're in the middle of a raid. :-)
karakedi25: no doubt. I'm in the middle of an instance now, but about to join a raid :-P
ArPharazonV: What better time to poke her about LotRO than when she's active in LotRO ;-)
karakedi25: which is most of the time during our meetings

VardaValar1: Ioreth-(V) asked if we had discussed lorewise the latest area, with the Ents in Isengard.
VardaValar1: She felt it didn't have enough water, and should have had more water outside the walls.
VardaValar1: I admit to not having thought about water outside the walls, and figured the water had settled a lot by the time we got there.
VardaValar1: Anything else concerning LotRO?
karakedi25: it depends on where the dam was, and if it went directly into Isengard. If so, there was a lot of underground for it to fill up
VardaValar1: agreed, all those underground forges etc
VardaValar1: Good answer
VardaValar1: Anything else concerning gaming, web, when you're sending your art, articles etc /duck
VardaValar1: Answer to Ioreth relayed.

VardaValar1: Tolkien:
VardaValar1: Ar-Pharazon has something for us. :-)
ArPharazonV: Yep! As you may remember I regularly check Peter Jackson's facebook page for news concerning The Hobbit, and even though it's been rather slow, this week there was some news :-)
ArPharazonV: (accessible without a facebook account too, as I have none)
karakedi25: the title of the 3rd movie?
ArPharazonV: Yup!
ArPharazonV: With the reasoning behind it.
karakedi25: (afk bio)
ArPharazonV: And the possible intention to use "There and Back Again" for the whole trilogy now that it's no longer the title for the third movie.
ArPharazonV: So, the title for the third movie is.. *drumroll*
VardaValar1: The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies.
VardaValar1: PJ loves big battles. He should enjoy this.
ArPharazonV: Yep!
VardaValar1: Desolation of Smaug extended cut is in the works, 25 more minutes of show.
ArPharazonV: I've not seen the second movie, so I'm not sure where the third will pick up, but he should have some fun with inter-racial politics and getting all the armies together.
ArPharazonV: That too!
ArPharazonV: Once again I'm waiting for the Extended Edition :-)
ArPharazonV: Might be the end of the year again, but since the newspost says "which we’re in the process of finishing" I'm hoping that it might possibly be a bit earlier this time.
ArPharazonV: We'll just have to wait and see!
AriehnV: the dvd is out definitly we are selling it down in the shop
AriehnV: but i am waiting for the extended version as well
karakedi25: DoS left off with a (non-canon) battle between Gandalf and Sauron in Dol Guldur
AriehnV: yip i noticed
ArPharazonV: As interesting as that is to know, and fascinating enough to look forward to, that doesn't tell me much about the place in the original plot, except that it must take place before the exchange of the Arkenstone.
AriehnV: they put a bit of that Dol Guldur thing in it
ArPharazonV: Since Gandalf was at Dale at the time.
VardaValar1: They're trying not to give away too much. :-)
ArPharazonV: Aye, understandable :-)

VardaValar1: Ok, quick thing about Beorn.
VardaValar1: The movie version is pretty far off of the book in a lot of ways.
VardaValar1: We're hoping the LotRO Beornings are handled more correctly. :-)
VardaValar1: Beorn is huge, Bilbo could walk right under him easily. Beorn has black hair. He was not the last of his kind.
VardaValar1: Grimbeorn, Beorn's son, took over as chieftain of the Beornings after him.
VardaValar1: The woodsmen and Beornings were given the middle secction of Mirkwood after the battle there.
ArPharazonV: The druid in me really wants confirmed that the movie Beorn actually does transform into a bear...?
VardaValar1: Yes. Looked more like a big warg to me, what I thought he was at first, but he did change back and forth.
ArPharazonV: That's good :-)
VardaValar1: Are you trying to avoid pictures and movie info until you've seen it?
ArPharazonV: Not particularly, no. Spoilers never bothered me anyway *coughmoviereference*.
VardaValar1: Here's some movie pics of him:
ArPharazonV: I'm just not bothering to look him up either.
ArPharazonV: *look them up
ArPharazonV: Ah, I'll check!
VardaValar1: Just so you can see.

VardaValar1: If folks have time, we have another chat topic.
ArPharazonV: The picture of him chasing the dwarves seems allright, but the one in the dark doesn't look exactly bear-like, indeed.
VardaValar1: What was the breadth of each of the Fellowship member's world-view? Do we see changes over the course of the journey?
ArPharazonV: His man-form doesn't look all that man-form either.
VardaValar1: We could just stick with one of them and quit for the night.
VardaValar1: Sort of in-between? :-) Like a werewolf?
ArPharazonV: A bit, I suppose. Like a werewolf who can't decide what form he wants to be in today.
ArPharazonV: Well, the Hobbits seemed rather "simple" in their world-view, compared to the others who were often well-travelled.
ArPharazonV: Sam is just eager to see Elves :-)
VardaValar1: yet compared to other hobbits, these four were practicaly worldly. :-)
VardaValar1: So a Bolger stumbles outside the Shire. He promptly pulls back. Short story!
ArPharazonV: By the end of it, certainly. And even before then, Frodo and Bilbo were already known for their dealings with other races passing by, while Merry and Pippin were of a sort of nobility themselves; Merry coming from that weird place across the river ;-)
VardaValar1: Merry is hair to the Brandybucks, an adventurous lot, ae. :-)
karakedi25: foot hair?
VardaValar1: Pippin is to be the next Thane.
AriehnV: hair to Brandybucks eh? curly or straight? short or long?
karakedi25: ;-)
VardaValar1: ok, heir then. ;-)
AriehnV: *giggles*
karakedi25: :-)
ArPharazonV: I suppose Sam was originally the least adventurous of them all, but his loyalty to Frodo carried him all the way through the wild wide world.
VardaValar1: Sam was JRRT's tribute to the real-life yeomen aiding the British officers. Their loyalty and aid was incredible.
VardaValar1: Our Sam was also in on the Conspiracy, main info source.
VardaValar1: We hear Bilbo even learned him his letters, meanin' no harm of course.
ArPharazonV: That would have expanded his world-view, sure.
AriehnV: he liked looking at maps too didnt he?
VardaValar1: Merry I thought was very into maps. Was it Sam? I'll have to find a book. :-)
karakedi25: I believe it was Merry...
VardaValar1: Merry also was a responsible type, looking after young Pippin, supplied ponies, helped Frodo set up a house in Crickhollow.
VardaValar1: Frodo was under Bilbo's wing, after having run with Brandybucks and Tooks. Spent time talking with elves and dwarves that passed through the Shire.
karakedi25: A hobbit Faramir in fact
VardaValar1: He knew Bilbo's stories as fact, and the most nearly correct versions.
VardaValar1: Aye, Faramir had a Fellowship birthday buddy
karakedi25: plus he was studious and cosmopolitan
VardaValar1: Frodo and Faramir were both students of Gandalf.
ArPharazonV: And if there's anyone with a good-sized world-view in the company, it's probably Gandalf!
VardaValar1: Agreed. He'd be top.
VardaValar1: Even Gandalf had room to learn.
VardaValar1: He started out with some trust of Saruman. He also had part of his memory wiped (as did all Istari).
VardaValar1: The Istari were intended to be advisors. Gandalf was the only one to not divide his loyalty from the Valar and the mission given. He wouldn't join the White Council even.
VardaValar1: as a leader.
VardaValar1: No Istar was meant to lead.
ArPharazonV: Did Radagast "lead", in a way? I can't imagine him commanding a squad of bunnies to pull him through the forest like in the movie.
VardaValar1: Radagast lost sight of the free people, concentrating on the creatures, especially birds.
VardaValar1: How about Aragorn of the Fellowship?
ArPharazonV: Oh, Aragorn had quite a broad world-view too. He'd spent time north, south, east, west, fighting with Rohan and Gondor even before the Fellowship.
karakedi25: that bunny sled was a travesty
VardaValar1: Agreed. Radagast should sue for character defamation, in line behind Faramir.
karakedi25: along with the bird poo
VardaValar1: And then running the sled at the people he was supposed to be luring the baddies away from.
ArPharazonV: Yes... not very clever.
karakedi25: I think they treated him badly
VardaValar1: Chat was intended to be about Fellowship people. :-) This is neat too
ArPharazonV: Well, who else have we got?
ArPharazonV: Boromir?
AriehnV: hehe leadership in the fellowship was it?
ArPharazonV: Worldviews in the fellowship!
VardaValar1: We were on Aragorn as next. Worldviews of the Fellowship and how they changed on the journey.
VardaValar1: Book version. :-)
VardaValar1: Aragorn started out as Chieftain of the Dunedain, in effect king of the humans of the North Kingdom of Arnor already.
VardaValar1: But that wasn't enough for Elrond to release one so high as Arwen to him.
VardaValar1: So he was stuck. He had to also become king of the South Kingdom.
VardaValar1: He was the most widely traveled of the Fellowship other than Gandalf
VardaValar1: Unlike most humans, he was even friends or familar with a number of non-humans.
VardaValar1: What changes happened to his worldfview, if any?
ArPharazonV: The things men do for love...
ArPharazonV: "Get me this priceless gem from the crown of the most evil creature in existence" "Will do!"
ArPharazonV: "Unite 2 kingdoms that have been apart for 3000 years!" "Sure, no problem!"
ArPharazonV: Not sure what happened to his worldview in the books. He didn't seem to change much, and was already pretty wise and knowledgeable about the world. He had a dilemma with his kingship in the movies, as I recall, but not so much in the books.
VardaValar1: Sounds like a guy. :-)
VardaValar1: The movie gave Aragorn this reluctance problem so they could show major growth.
VardaValar1: Aragorn had the intentions ok, but he had to actually do it. He had to be able to be very humble first.
ArPharazonV: Right. They wanted growth in the movies, but he'd already had 80 years under his belt for said growth to already have happened.
VardaValar1: A lot of his story had happened before the main book.
ArPharazonV: Yes. Part of it focused on in the appendices.
VardaValar1: True, a good-sized chunk. He wasn't the main character.
ArPharazonV: I think part of the problem might have been that they tried to put the content from Appendix A into the timeframe of the movies, while the Appendix happened years before (and after!).
AriehnV: talking about movies and book .. if you want a laugh . very well made and based on wow machiminima or whatever but yes .. its not suitabl for very young
VardaValar1: Boromir had not been intended originally for the group, a substitute for Faramir who was already mature in behavior and thought. So he had a large part of his growing up to do, in a very rough fashion.
AriehnV: sorry distraction but feel free to go back to the origin after
AriehnV: (( ))
VardaValar1: Ah, go ahead, Sunshine.
VardaValar1: Thanks
VardaValar1: Boromir had to go up against a very different world view. Grab the strongest weapon and swing it against the enemy!
VardaValar1: What do you mean, destroy it?
VardaValar1: JRRT said if he had been writing the story in the modern way as he was accused of (using the wars heavily etc) then the humans would have taken and used the Ring.
VardaValar1: So many things for him were just out of place. Working with non-humans, especially his being a minority.
VardaValar1: What about Gimli?
karakedi25: He grew a lot and became far more tolerant of difference
ArPharazonV: I suppose Gimli became rather more tolerant of Elves and trees and horses :-)
karakedi25: I think the moment in the Paths of the Dead when he had to face that he was afraid was pivotal
VardaValar1: That was major for him. Did it change his worldview or just challenge his courage/
VardaValar1: ?
karakedi25: it challenged his self-perception and that of his race
karakedi25: he had to recognize that others whom he had considered weak had many of the virtues he valued in himself
VardaValar1: Aye, well said
VardaValar1: Gimli and Legolas were forced to change their view of each others' race gradually. First they had to travel together with the same goal. Then Gandalf said he needed them to cooperate at the door of Moria.
VardaValar1: Gimli wanted to stay and guard the tomb of Balin, but Legolas helped him leave and survive instead.
VardaValar1: Gimli was not a common dwarf even at the start. Why not?
VardaValar1: Growing up with members of the well-heeled Thorin's Company including his father.
VardaValar1: Being taken on trips with Gloin, as he was on the trip to Rivendell.
VardaValar1: Living at Erebor, he would often be exposed to humans in trade that Thorin's Company had a history with
VardaValar1: Am I typing too fast? :-) No one else getting a chance to type?
ArPharazonV: Just letting you continue :-)
VardaValar1: heh
VardaValar1: What kind of worldview did Legolas start with?
ArPharazonV: Not sure. Was he well-travelled already? He didn't think too highly of dwarves, anyway.
VardaValar1: We know he was of a royal family and therefore educated.
VardaValar1: He traveled to Rivendell, not a safe walk in the park from northern Mirkwood.
VardaValar1: He did not go to Lorien.
VardaValar1: Mostly he was busy protecting Mirkwood. Sauron himself set up right in the middle of the forest.
karakedi25: I think the Mirkwood elves were somewhat insular. I'd think he substantially broadened his world view
VardaValar1: Agreed. Especially compared to Rivendell that had traffic from all over, coming in to study peacefully or pass through.
VardaValar1: So all the Fellowship came uncalled to be hosted for a Council by Elrond who didn't call them but was perfectly situated to be their host.
ArPharazonV: "uncalled" for a certain meaning of the word :-)
VardaValar1: heh
VardaValar1: I wonder how much Gandalf knew ahead of time and how much he played by ear.
VardaValar1: ok, it's been nearly 3 hours.Shall we call After-meeting?
ArPharazonV: I'm sure Gandalf had his suspicions at least.
karakedi25: clearly he didn't expect what happened to him at Orthanc, so he didn't know everything
karakedi25: he did have a plan, and we know what happens to those
VardaValar1: They never survive first engagement with the enemy. :-)
karakedi25: quite so
VardaValar1: Calling

VardaValar1: After-meeting!
VardaValar1: Unstructured chat time. (Got around the free chat discussion, hah.)
ArPharazonV: Oh, I'll mention here that I fought Fladrif in Hearthstone again a few days ago, friendly match. His cards are still better than mine, but he told me what deck he was gonna use, and I used a class that could fight against it, and was lucky with my first card-draw... so actually managed to defeat him in an honest way ;-)
VardaValar1: Congrats, Phar ;-)
VardaValar1: and good to hear you and Flad are still getting to play!
VardaValar1: Got into a Tolkien chat about wizards in the LotRO kin branch. :-)
ArPharazonV: Not often, but sometimes!
ArPharazonV: hah
VardaValar1: Any is a good thing. A way for friends to get together.
VardaValar1: Here's hoping someday things will settle down for him and he can lurch his roots back in here.
ArPharazonV: That'd be nice!
ArPharazonV: Well, played a bit of Hearthstone over the last hour, including several priest matches :-) That class can be a lot of fun if you know what you're doing. Had a priest vs priest fight which was actually rather close, and came close to exhausting both our decks!
ArPharazonV: Heals and buffs and area of effect spells... and even mind control!
karakedi25: namarie!
ArPharazonV: Namarie!
karakedi25 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Well, saving and sending transcript.