October 27, 2013 Sunday Meeting
(and into the chat marathon)
5pm EDT (UTC - 5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
Back to News
Transcript work by Ar-Pharazon and Varda.
AriehnV, ArPharazonV, EonweValar, Gilraen-(V)/Iryenth, Indis-(V)/karakedi25, VardaValar1 (presiding)
Time zone in Europe changed, but not until next weekend in the US.
WoW news, planning
Elves at the time of LotR
More on elves, elvish language, book version of Ar-Pharazon
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
Eonwe Valar: Heya :}
Iryenth has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Right. No DST-end at your place yet?
ArPharazonV: We went back one hour last night.
ArPharazonV: In other words, I've got an hour of raiding left :-)
Eonwe Valar: Nope, DST hasn't ended here yet.
ArPharazonV: Well. Guess I'll be mostly busy for the next hour of meeting.
VardaValar1: Not yet, nope.
Eonwe Valar: I believe it's endign for us next week.
Eonwe Valar: ending even
Eonwe Valar: Afk for a moment. Getting tea and donut.
VardaValar1: sounds yummy :-)
Eonwe Valar: back.
VardaValar1: Welcome back :-)
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}
VardaValar1: Hi from Merry and Elwing. They're visiting at my house. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Heya to Merry and Elwing :}
VardaValar1: Who all is here
Eonwe Valar: I am here :}
VardaValar1: yay :-)
karakedi25 has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya :}
Iryenth: I'm here currently, will be scrolling later
ArPharazonV: Here for a few seconds before we make our Blackfuse pull.
Eonwe Valar: Ok ladies and gents, we've delayed a bit, but we'll begin the meeting now.
VardaValar1: There's a problem going on in time zones
VardaValar1: Europe changed, not US, but
VardaValar1: a lot of people's phones changed anyway
VardaValar1: so there's a mass confusion.
VardaValar1: It's a satellite uplink changing phones.
VardaValar1: Not all phones, but apparently a good lot of them.
ArPharazonV: I warned Arien online.
ArPharazonV: in WoW I mean
Eonwe Valar: Ouch.
AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Pardon, was talking with several people about the crazy problem.
VardaValar1: The paper calendar says the change is Nov 3, some atomic
clock phones say the change was today, and the European change was
AriehnV: aiya ... you mean the time change working havoc with boody and mind?
VardaValar1: Not all phones changed. Crazy mess.
VardaValar1: I mean the change messing up with the satellite uplinks for a lot of phones.
VardaValar1: I passed group leadership to Merry-V, back with you now.
VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Merry and Elwing, Bilbo and Sauron say hi to the folks in AIM. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Heya to them :}
VardaValar1: We had a long power outage this morning, still not all
back in good shape here electronically, but yay the Internet works!
ArPharazonV: Hi to all, and gone again for some minutes.
VardaValar1: Any new from the rest of you? : )
VardaValar1: Aiya Indis :-)
VardaValar1: and aiya Arien :0
VardaValar1: and Gilraen :-)
AriehnV has left the room.
VardaValar1: Nothing new to report on this end.
Iryenth: nothing here
AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: oh, happy birthday to Arwen-V as of yesterday :-)
AriehnV: a belated happy birthday to Arwen then :-)
VardaValar1: Non-WoW, non-LotRO gaming for this last week
VardaValar1: SCBW with Fangorn and myself; SWTOR for Bilbo and Sauron.
VardaValar1: Eonwe has D3 news. Go ahead, Eonwe.
Eonwe Valar: Thanks.
Eonwe Valar: Blizzard has given a bit of a preview of the Mystic, who
will be allowing D3 characters to transmogrify their outfits, as well
as "enchant" their items, allowing them to reroll a single stat.
Eonwe Valar: Check it out here :http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/11337855/reaper-of-souls-first-look-the-mys tic-10-24-2013
Eonwe Valar: Here's an actual working link: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/blog/11337855/reaper-of-souls-first-look-the-myst ic-10-24-2013
VardaValar1: Handy, thanks. :-)
Eonwe Valar: That's it for me for D3.
VardaValar1: Thank you :-)
VardaValar1: Phar has some news for us, but is hung up in a raid at the moment, thanks to the time zone change.
VardaValar1: He'll give his report later, always fun.
VardaValar1: Any WoW folks have news?
Eonwe Valar: Hallow's End is still going.
VardaValar1: Thanks, was wondering. Still need to get in there and do that.
Eonwe Valar: Sunday remains a day for us to be able to get together and game if we want to utilzie it.
VardaValar1: The Fall Festival is still going, and provides Bounders' Tokens
Eonwe Valar: *utilize
VardaValar1: The Helm's Deep beta is still going strong, which is
great, but that's one reason things are a bit quiet in the main game.
VardaValar1: Any other LotRO news?
Eonwe Valar: Other than I've been in there, nothing from me :}
karakedi25: There will be many changes when HD comes as far as class structure is concerned
VardaValar1: At the moment, LotRo has Nerdanel, Elwing, Merry, and
myself online. :-) We have a number of regulars, like Hurin, Hamson,
and Nar who come on nearly daily in kin.
Iryenth has left the room.
VardaValar1: They've been so good at balance before. Let's hope they manage to keep that.
Iryenth has left the room.
Iryenth has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Welcome back, Gilraen :-)
VardaValar1: Did you have more you wree able to add, Indis?
karakedi25: not at the moment
VardaValar1: ok, thanks
VardaValar1: Eonwe, go ahead. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}
Eonwe Valar: I just wanted to add to the WoW news a couple of items.
Eonwe Valar: 1.) If we were to have 8 or so members on Lothar at lvl 90
and with the appropriate item level, we could give the flex version of
Siege of Orgrimmar a go.
Eonwe Valar: 2.) I was musing the other day while looking at my transmogged guild cloak,...
VardaValar1: Would Friday be possible?
VardaValar1: (Hurin just came online in LotRO, hello from him. )
ArPharazonV: "Well, I'm back."
Eonwe Valar: If there is a series of armor pieces (in each armor type
that), when transmogged together, would be suitable themetically as a
Valar Guild look.
VardaValar1: Welcome back, Phar :-)
ArPharazonV: Thanks :-)
Eonwe Valar: So I challenge those of us WoW players with an eye for
fashion to find a transmog that would make a thematically fit Valar
Guild armour set for cloth, leather, mail, and plate.
Eonwe Valar: Tier sets don't count :}
ArPharazonV: Aww, but I bet the banana paladin set would be perfect.
VardaValar1: aww :-)
Eonwe Valar: I'll probably make a post on the forum with this challenge
so members can post the items they think would make the most "Valarly"
set. If you can get a pic with all the items together to show how it
would look, that'd be great.
Eonwe Valar: I forget if WoWHead's model viewer can do that.
VardaValar1: Would it be something that goes with our emblem mainly?
ArPharazonV: What is your emblem/tabard?
Eonwe Valar: It'd have to fit thematically primarily, and would probably need to fit the color scheme of our tabard as well.
Eonwe Valar: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/guild/lothar/Valar_Guild/
Eonwe Valar: As for if Friday would be possible for my first item: I'm afraid not. I would only be available Sunday night.
VardaValar1: Blue and yellow, like our emblem?
Eonwe Valar: The emblem is supposed to represent the Flame Imperishible. Gold on a blue background.
Eonwe Valar: Blue for Manwë.
Eonwe Valar: If there are no other questions on these two items, I yield the floor back to Varda :}
VardaValar1: Thank you
ArPharazonV: I've got a few bits of news to toss in.
VardaValar1: Phar, you had more to say in gaming?
VardaValar1: Please go ahead
Well, catching back to membership, I'll say that I went to hospital
this week, for a bi-annual heart checkup. But nothing seems to have
worsened, so I'm still in reasonably good health!
ArPharazonV: And as I was in the city, for gaming, I finally managed to purchase Rayman: Legends, completing my collection of the 5 main Rayman games :-)
AriehnV: orrr errr *coughs*
AriehnV: and grats Phar
VardaValar1: Hope you get better, Phar. Holding even is good news too. :-)
AriehnV: i ve got something too.. if its not too late
ArPharazonV: Played it for a short bit so far, and it seems to require
an internet connection, since you play via something called Uplay. I'm
sure this is to incorporate more Ubisoft games, with badges,
achievements, things to unlock etc. But it could be annoying if
internet drops. I haven't yet checked if there's a way to get it to run
without going through Uplay.
VardaValar1: Nope, just right, after Phar is done, Arien.
ArPharazonV: But from what I've played it seems pretty good, not unlike
its predecessor Rayman: Origins in gameplay, but with some added
ArPharazonV: And thanks, Varda, but my condition is pretty much chronic
unless I have surgery. I'll be fine though :-) Let's see, other games...
ArPharazonV: Still doing the Game of Thrones
thing, really getting into it with forum and wikia research, and I've
already made some long-term plans that assume I'll be playing for
several years. But I think I'll be able to manage that, not growing
tired of it yet anyway ;-)
ArPharazonV: And more flashgaming
of course. For some reason the Kongregate badges of the day really
involved some spooky games this week, and rather short, but it was a
ArPharazonV: As for WoW, happy
to say my raidgroup managed to get the first full flexible clear of the
Siege of Orgrimmar on the Argent Dawn server this week, though I wasn't
home to see it ;-) But it's a sign that we're progressing well, at
ArPharazonV: Allright, that's it for me, Arien go ahead!
AriehnV: Grats Phar :-D
ArPharazonV: ..and I just said "for some reason", but it's Halloween week. So it's not that surprising.
VardaValar1: A clue :-)
ArPharazonV: Amazing what clicks in your mind the moment you write it down.
AriehnV: yus and me i wanted to say i have SWTOR back installed and playing on it a bit while trying the subscription difference
VardaValar1: Good to know :-)
VardaValar1: Was it giving problems, making you uninstall?
AriehnV: i am playing both republc and an evil sorcerer
AriehnV: not really it was just the long download which kept me from it after i had to get a new harddisk
AriehnV: but they seem to have sped up the down load a bit
ArPharazonV: Or you got better internet!
VardaValar1: Any other news or comments?
AriehnV: thats it from me
VardaValar1: Thank you, Arien. :-)
AriehnV: i ve got of course my guild branch characters but i havent seen anyone of you guys online yet
VardaValar1: Sauron says he's glad to hear you're back.
VardaValar1: Bilbo is online right now on SWToR
VardaValar1: on Republic
VardaValar1: Any other comments or news?
AriehnV: *shakes head*
VardaValar1: Any comments on the forum RP?
Eonwe Valar: Mentally working on my next post still.
ArPharazonV: I was wondering if Calion is supposed to be highly enthusiastic in saying goodbye to Auros.
AriehnV: i left Frali last playing with gimli on the practise ground just after you had left it
ArPharazonV: I'll figure something out.
VardaValar1: He might be. :-)
VardaValar1: We'll be stopped from leaving right away. Fainan's being
reminded of her manners, and needs to say at least farewell to Elrond.
And may get her hand slapped by Meren.
VardaValar1: Meren seemed to Fainan to have become disenchanted and ready to leave, a major point in her thinking.
Eonwe Valar: There are of course also practical reasons for not
departing yet: namely, the party doesn't know yet what they'd be
Eonwe Valar: There is a scout or two sent northward to the borders to
spy out the situation in the immediate area, and they have not returned
VardaValar1: We are unaware of this, and as scouts ourselves, are perfectly willing to scout on our own.
ArPharazonV: Step aside, boys, we'll take it from here.
VardaValar1: Pretty much. :-)
Eonwe Valar: hehe
VardaValar1: Also, we're more than scouts. We want to go stop the culprits from hurting our home.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, but a little recon before going in helps :}
VardaValar1: Aye, we'll be doing our own recon. ;-)
VardaValar1: Scout by profession, after all. ;-)
ArPharazonV: We'll recon, head back to the party, and then move in a group?
ArPharazonV: Orrr... *sends a few birds up north to check the area*
VardaValar1: We can head out on our mission, scouting carefully ahead of ourselves as we go.
VardaValar1: Going to say bye to Merry-V, feel free to continue the discussion
karakedi25: Meren isn't disenchanted with Rivendell, but she will go with the group to help as she can.
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Am I back?
ArPharazonV: You are.
Eonwe Valar: Hantal.
Eonwe Valar: What'd I miss since :
Eonwe Valar: Indis 5:35 pm Meren isn't disenchanted with Rivendell, but she will go with the group to help as she can.
ArPharazonV: karakedi25: Meren isn't disenchanted with Rivendell, but
she will go with the group to help as she can.Eonwe Valar has left the
room.Eonwe Valar has entered the room.Eonwe Valar: Am I back?
ArPharazonV: In other words, nothing :-)
ArPharazonV: Eonwe missed nothing.
VardaValar1: Fainan was under the impression that Meren was at a standstill in the research department.
Eonwe Valar: Posted.
karakedi25: She's probably learned as much as she can unless she gets access to more 'classified' information, which is unlikely
Eonwe Valar: Slightly editted.
Eonwe Valar: Of course everyone in the group is also working off the
premise that the sword is not involved in any trek north, or everyone
would have to sit down and wait patiently until Auros got around to
examining it, lol :}
VardaValar1: The group assumes we will see and hear nothing of it again, aye.
VardaValar1: "Never assume" may be the lesson we take from this.
VardaValar1: A lot is a lack of trust in Noldor in general, even not realizing it.
VardaValar1: Oh, if I didn't mention, posted.
ArPharazonV: A lack of trust in the Noldor trusting us.
ArPharazonV: Or something.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, you mentioned it :} I saw your post, Varda, and raised you a post of my own :}
Eonwe Valar: Unless you madea post after mine that isn't showing.
VardaValar1: o goody! *runs to look*
VardaValar1: No, I just needed to reload.
Eonwe Valar: ok :}
VardaValar1: *knocks bow*
VardaValar1: er *nocks bow*
Eonwe Valar: OK, remind me: who all do we have standing here? Auros and Malril, Fainan,... I think Calion?
ArPharazonV: I'm there. I think. I was sitting next to Bilbo, last I
posted, and greeted Fainan coming from the practice range. So Bilbo
might be in listening range as well.
Eonwe Valar: Hehe, I hope we haven't divuged anything secret then :}
Eonwe Valar: *divulged
VardaValar1: Replied. Let's shock Malril. Fainan *likes* plain speech.
VardaValar1: Bilbo, the one who knows all secrets!
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Am I back again?
ArPharazonV: There and back again.
Eonwe Valar: and again, hehe.
VardaValar1: Welcome back. Nice one, Phar. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Don't know why I'm being disconnected.
ArPharazonV: Speaking of, the EE should be out in about.. a week or so?
VardaValar1: A Conspiracy!
ArPharazonV: Is the title of the third movie out yet? There and Back Again wouldn't be too bad for a subtitle.
Eonwe Valar: Isn't that the title?
Eonwe Valar: Don't know why, but I think it's that or something similar.
ArPharazonV: It would be the obvious choice.
Eonwe Valar: OK, yep, that's why I think it's that: according to WIkipedia, it is.
VardaValar1: Are we still posting back and forth? This is a great way
for our characters to have a conversation, these Sunday meetings.
Otherwise we can only use broader brush strokes.
Eonwe Valar: I am. Plotting my post.
ArPharazonV: Calion's just watching amusedly, probably. He'll strike up conversation when one of you leaves.
Eonwe Valar: I'm not going to give actual names in this next post, but I'll say that I have given names.
Eonwe Valar: Well, "I" as in one of the characters concerned.
Eonwe Valar: Just making sure what I'm getting ready to say doesn't contradict what I've said before.
VardaValar1: And if needed, they can be added later in an edit.
Eonwe Valar: Or maybe I won't give names. The way this is writing, the names need not be mentioned at this time anyway.
Eonwe Valar: Posted.
VardaValar1: In the time of LotR and our rp, there are four groups of elves. What kinds of differences do they have?
Eonwe Valar: We have those from Rivendell.
Eonwe Valar: To quickly swipe the obvious one, hehe.
ArPharazonV: Lorien, Mirkwood.
Eonwe Valar: Though the others shouldn't be difficult either :}
Eonwe Valar: As Phar just demonstrated, hehe.
VardaValar1: One more group. They get little press!
ArPharazonV: Third would either be the Avari to the east, or the Elves
who've moved west to Aman, depending on your limitations to the
ArPharazonV: ehrr, fourth
ArPharazonV: If you're really feeling picky you can name the Orcs as well, being likely Elf-descended.
VardaValar1: Orcs, interesting thought.
Eonwe Valar: If we're talking about the groups = major settlements in
Middle-Earth, the Elves in Aman wouldn't count, though the Avari
technically would unless we narrow it to those in the primary area
involved in the story.
VardaValar1: Avari is tricky, really. I wonder if they all moved in together and are being called Silvans by then.
Eonwe Valar: There does seem to be some contention there between Sil
and LotR: LotR seems to imply they're Avari mostly in Mirkwood and
Lorien, but by Sil they should be Eldar living in those areas.
Eonwe Valar: It was seeing the Misty Mountains that caused the Nandor
to split off, and even though some went eventually into Beleriand,
there were still those that remained east of the Hithaeglir.
VardaValar1: The Silvans/Avari asked Sindar to come be teachers and
leaders for them, but didn't ask for Noldor, although the Noldor would
have more knowledge.
ArPharazonV: Smart Silvans *cough*
VardaValar1: (Gray Havens, since we have moved to another subject, more or less.)
ArPharazonV: Ah, the Havens. Totally missed that.
VardaValar1: As Varda, I like *all* the elves. :-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: I did too. Eonwe caught it.
Eonwe Valar: I recall there also being Elves in the Tower Hills/Lindon,
but don't recall if their settlement is significant enough to be
considered. They don't seem to be involved much at least.
VardaValar1: Would they be under Cirdan of the Grey Havens?
ArPharazonV: Likely, yes.
ArPharazonV: Not too far away.
Eonwe Valar: I don't know, I think they were Noldor up there :}
Eonwe Valar: I might be thinking more Second Age/ Early Third Age though.
ArPharazonV: In the time of Arnor?
ArPharazonV: Arnor was allied with the Noldor of Rivendell, I believe;
at least in the war against Angmar. It's possible that during that
time, the Noldor would've inhabited or built things throughout Arnor,
like in the Tower Hills.
VardaValar1: Noldor should be able to consider Cirdan venerable enough. :-)
ArPharazonV: Hang on, geneology mixed up... isn't Cirdan of the Noldor originally?
Eonwe Valar: No, Teleri.
ArPharazonV: Ah, right, mixed him up with Gilgalad.
VardaValar1: Sindar that went to Aman were Teleri
Eonwe Valar: Actually,..
karakedi25: Weren't all Sindar Teleri?
ArPharazonV: Sindar are the Teleri that didn't go to Aman.
Eonwe Valar: The Teleri were the third group of Eldar. Falmari are the Teleri that reached Aman.
VardaValar1: Ok, Teleri as the overall group. Sindar as didn't make it to Aman, Falmari as did make it to Aman.
Eonwe Valar: Sindar are those Teleri who took Elwë Thingol as their king.
ArPharazonV: True. Not all the remaining Teleri became Sindar.
ArPharazonV: Silvans were Teleri too.
Eonwe Valar: Or more specifically, Sindar are those Teleri who lived in Beleriand and took Elwë as their king.
Eonwe Valar: Nandor are also Teleri.
ArPharazonV: Avari are Teleri as well.
Eonwe Valar: No.
VardaValar1: Weren't Silvans a mixed group of any elves that turned back at the mountain range?
ArPharazonV: My mistake then.
VardaValar1: Avari are the Refusers, they wouldn't even start off towards Valinor.
Eonwe Valar: OK, quick rundown, and I know I'm going to mess up on the
names most likely, but here's a brief explanation as per HoME:
ArPharazonV: So they never started as one of the 3 groups?
Eonwe Valar: *from memory.
Eonwe Valar: There were 3 groups: Minyar (Firsts), Tatyar (Seconds), Nelyar (Thirds).
Eonwe Valar: Of the Minyar, all became Eldar and thus all Minyar are also Vanyar.
Eonwe Valar: Of the Tatyar, half became Eldar and thus that half are Noldor.
Eonwe Valar: Of the Nelyar, a significant chunk became Eldar and those are the Teleri.
ArPharazonV: So the Avari are the rest of the Tatyar and Nelyar.
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
Eonwe Valar: The numbers, though not the names, can be confirmed by the Sil.
Eonwe Valar: It says "the most parts of the peoples of Finwë and Elwë" took up the journey, or something similar.
Eonwe Valar: But "the people of Ingwë" either with no qualifier, or the qualifier "all"
VardaValar1: The reason for the Avari name is that it means Refuser, those who refused to set out for Valinor.
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
Eonwe Valar: To shamelessly plug my own research, hehehe : http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/articles/e/elves/elvesgeneral.htm
Eonwe Valar: "Elf Population Proportions" being the relevant section.
Eonwe Valar: And hey, my memory was good on the names :}
Eonwe Valar: Minyar, Tatyar, and Nelyar :}
ArPharazonV: Good memory indeed.
Eonwe Valar: But back to the main point, Cirdan was Teleri :}
Eonwe Valar: To answer: "Weren't Silvans a mixed group of any elves that turned back at the mountain range?"
Eonwe Valar: Sil says and shows "all" Vanyar and Noldor made it to Aman, so Nandor would specifically be Teleri.
Eonwe Valar: Lenwë was the host of Olwë, and he led a portion
of that people "southwards down the great river." Those were the Nandor.
Eonwe Valar: Lenwë was *of* the host of Olwë,... he alone did not comprise that host, lol.
Eonwe Valar: "Those were the Nandor; and they loved water, and dwelt
most beside falls and running streams. Greater knowledge they had of
living things, tree and herb, bird and best, than all other Elves." --
"Of the Coming of the Elves" For those to whom it may be interesting or
Eonwe Valar: *best = beast
Eonwe Valar: Any other comments on the topic?
Eonwe Valar: Ok, if there's nothing else to say at this time, and
nothing more for the RP, looks like now is a good time to bang the
ArPharazonV: *withdraws fingers*
Eonwe Valar: *Raises gavel*
Eonwe Valar: *Bangs gavel*
Eonwe Valar: Aftermeeting :}
Eonwe Valar: Read the RP if you haven't, there are new posts :}
VardaValar1: Thank you, Eonwe :-)
Eonwe Valar: MP and welcome back :}
VardaValar1: All Noldor? hmm, think I"ll have to recheck that, although you're most probably right.
VardaValar1: Elwing is on her way home
Eonwe Valar: Aye, considering Noldor are those Eldar from the people of Finwë that chose to go on the journey.
Eonwe Valar: Safe journey to Elwing :}
Eonwe Valar: *Those Quendi.
Eonwe Valar: So for fun in aftermeeting, here's a differentiation of Elves off the top of my head:
Eonwe Valar: Quendi --- All Elves.
Eonwe Valar: Eldar - Took up the journey to Aman; Opposed to Avari, who refused to go.
VardaValar1: Go go Eonwe!
Eonwe Valar: Amanyar -- Eldar of Aman, opposed to Umanyar, those Elves who did not make it to Aman.
Eonwe Valar: *those Eldar who did not make it to Aman. Umanyar are still Eldar.
Eonwe Valar: Amanyar is synonymous with Calaquendi and opposed to Moriquendi, which includes Umanyar and Avari.
Eonwe Valar: If memory serves, Amanyar and Calaquendi are also
synonymous with Tar-Eldar, which as we all probably know would
translate pretty easily to "High Elves"
Eonwe Valar: Then we go from there to the various divisions: Vanyar, Noldor, Teleri > Falmari - Nandor - Sindar
ArPharazonV: Royal Elves, maybe.
ArPharazonV: Tar is used as a royal title.
ArPharazonV: Noble Elves?
Eonwe Valar: Sindarin Tar - "High" Quenya Tara - "Lofty"
VardaValar1: Aye, Ar and Tar can mean Royal or High
VardaValar1: Like Ar-wen
Eonwe Valar: Aye, Ar-, Ara- bears the same meaning. After Malvegil of
Arthedain, the kings of Arthedain claimed rule over all of Arnor again
(there being no heirs in Cardolan or Rhudaur) and took names beginning
with Ar(a) as a token of this.
karakedi25 has left the room.
VardaValar1: Ar-thedain. Ar-nor
VardaValar1: Ar-ien, Ar-Pharazon
VardaValar1: Aye :-)
Eonwe Valar: V-AR-da? :}
Eonwe Valar: Hmm, on quick glance I don't see what Arthedain would
translate to. I wonder if the name has not lost some letters or
syllables, as it seems to have both "Ar" and "Edain" which would be
appropriate enough in a name for what Arthedain was: the section where
was located the seat of power of Arnor.
VardaValar1: Maybe lenited
Eonwe Valar: Possible.
ArPharazonV: Lenition. Another new word learned.
Eonwe Valar: Thought comes to me of Parth Galen.
VardaValar1: This is nice:
VardaValar1: Aye, as if arth might have a special meaning, perhaps.
ArPharazonV: Oh, nice.
Eonwe Valar: Aragorn says of Parth Galen, "This is the lawn of Parth
Galen: a fair place in the summer days of old. Let us hope that no evil
has yet to come here." Now I'm curious enough to check the Beren's
Lorebook real quick.
Eonwe Valar: And aye, looks like quite a bit of work was put into that.
Eonwe Valar: OK, doesn't look like "Parth" is in Beren's Lorebook.
Eonwe Valar: Given that "parth" at least seems to be a designation of a
type of land, maybe "lawn", "Parth Edain" eroded over years perhaps to
"Arthedain" might make sense. Of course this is all conjecture on my
part, not claiming any sort of canonicity, but it does lend for the
amusing remark about getting those pesky teenagers from Angmar off
Arnor's lawn :}
ArPharazonV: Lawn of Men.
VardaValar1: Arthedain's not in his Lorebook either.
VardaValar1: Aye. Get off my Lawn.
ArPharazonV: Or if Parth = lawn and Ar = high.. maybe Arth = something like Highgarden?
Eonwe Valar: Well, there was someone in the Sil in the First Age named Arthad.
Eonwe Valar: The name Arien is probably more related to Quenya Aurë than Ar-.
ArPharazonV: Dunno, the sun's pretty high ;-)
VardaValar1: Or a play on both?
VardaValar1: just tossing stuff out there, not being as analytical as I should be. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Actually, from the Appendix directly: "arien (the Maia of
the Sun) is derived from a root as- seen also in Quenya arë
Eonwe Valar: Seems there is arë (accent of the a) meaning
'sunlight' and aurë (no accent over the a) meaning 'sunlight, day'
so aurë may carry a more temporal meaning, while arë a more
Eonwe Valar: *(accent over the a)
Eonwe Valar: Hmm, play WoW, or sift through the Sil for obscur minutae... Who needs video games? lol :}
VardaValar1: Do both. I do. ;-)
ArPharazonV: Already did some WoW about an hour ago, got my Timeless
Isle quests done. I was hoping for a LFR too but it was taking way too
long without any progress in the queue window.
VardaValar1: of course it means something gets neglected, heh
ArPharazonV: Guess it's a bit late for LFRs.
Eonwe Valar: I got my polearm and defeated Garrosh this week. All I'm
worried about now is managing to find a celestials group before Tuesday.
Eonwe Valar: And the two dailies on the Timless Isle.
VardaValar1: Rough having those deadlines
ArPharazonV: Next tuesday I'll finish stockpiling hardened magnificent
hides, and I'll be able to produce my new pants, which means all my
gear will be at least 561 :-)
VardaValar1: Bofur and Dagr do those, I think? Elwing is still on the road, probably
VardaValar1: Nice :-)
ArPharazonV: 2 dailies on the Isle? I always do 3.
Eonwe Valar: I've already got the 553 upgrade to 561 DPS and Tanking belts for Auros, hehe.
Eonwe Valar: I'm hoping to get burdens of eternity and timeless rings to roll some 535 haste rings, but that takes alot of luck.
ArPharazonV: Indeed it does.
Eonwe Valar: Oh Parth Galen - "Green Sward"
Eonwe Valar: Under calen(galen) in the Appendix of the Sil.
Eonwe Valar: So Parth Edain would be "Edain's Sward"
Eonwe Valar: So yeah, lawn would be a good approximation.
Eonwe Valar: Assuming that Arthedain is mutated from Parth Edain, anyway.
Eonwe Valar: Still no proof on that :}
ArPharazonV: We can always assume. Who's going to contradict us?
Eonwe Valar: If we're lucky, Tolkien's works because then we'd have an answer? :}
VardaValar1: Well said :-)
AriehnV: Olore Mara don Valier y Valar ... or something like that hehe
ArPharazonV: is that a "goodnight"?
AriehnV: sort of yes .. bed time aye
VardaValar1: Nighty night Arien :-)
AriehnV: Night Night :-)
AriehnV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well Arien :}
Eonwe Valar: Belatedly :}
ArPharazonV: Namarien! Via transcript.
VardaValar1: Yay transcript!
Eonwe Valar: Hehe, Namarien...
ArPharazonV: Try disecting that one linguistically.
Eonwe Valar: That would be similar to vanimelda = vanima elda --> "fair one" :}
Eonwe Valar: Compound word :}
Eonwe Valar: Ran across that one while doing research on Melkor and the uvanimor.
ArPharazonV: Unfair? :-)
Eonwe Valar: Although I do believe it's used by Aragorn to describe Arwen in one of his moments of fond memory.
Eonwe Valar: And aye, basically :}
Eonwe Valar: Ogres and the like.
VardaValar1: Aye Eonwe
VardaValar1: Looking over that Numenor chronology reminds me of the chronology we had going with Arveleg-V
VardaValar1: Thinking it needs completed and linked in strongly to the Encyc
VardaValar1: Another organization system for our notes, of many.
ArPharazonV: Last week I finally found the piece about Pharazon and
Miriel I'd been looking for, which seems to be a late unimplemented
story element that actually made their union free-willed. I think it
was in part 12 of HoME. I might look it up for next week's meeting.
ArPharazonV: Apparently Pharazon was quite handsome and charismatic!
VardaValar1: Congrats :-)
Eonwe Valar: Please do look it up for next week.
VardaValar1: Love to see that
Eonwe Valar: OK, been through Sil. Without digging through HoME at this
point and having nothing official to base it on (hehe), I like the
theory of Arthedain < Parth Edain.
ArPharazonV: Let's go with that then :-) Lawn of Men!
Eonwe Valar: That leaves the question of the meaning of Cardolan and RHudaur.
Eonwe Valar: I'll leave those as homework for the week for interested
Tolkien linguists :} Extra credit will be finding the meaning of
Arthedain, even if it proves my hypothesis wrong :}
Eonwe Valar: I can't keep all the fun to myself, after all :}
ArPharazonV: Not much of a linguist myself. Always the part of Tolkien's work I could least wrap my head around.
Eonwe Valar: Some of it is more interesting and easier to get than
others. I took a language course in relation to German once, learned
about morphology etc. Was quite interesting, but I forget some of the
linguistic symbols used to represent different sounds.
Eonwe Valar: Was actually one of my more interesting classes, both that
and upon reflection. I just wish it weren't early in the morning and
that I were more awake when I was taking it.
Eonwe Valar: *both then and upon reflection
VardaValar1: Being awake helps. :-)
ArPharazonV: Coffee? Sugary drinks?
VardaValar1: Sleeping the night before? :-)
ArPharazonV: As a last resort, maybe.
Eonwe Valar: Hehehe
Eonwe Valar: I did get as much sleep as I could. Even between classes when possible.
Eonwe Valar: I got through it, but those early classes can be a pain, heh.
ArPharazonV: Even during classes!
Eonwe Valar: Never on purpose, lol.
VardaValar1: Helps to be a morning person
Eonwe Valar: Well, I'm a morning person, but commuting to the
university, trying to keep up with the course load, and then trying to
make sure you get to class on time can take its toll. Luckily I had the
weekends to get some extra sleep.
VardaValar1: Helps a lot if you can live on campus, for the morning classes.
Eonwe Valar: Commuting was the option I went with, hehe.
VardaValar1: I was very lucky - got to live on campus part of the time, or very nearby.
ArPharazonV: I just got used to a 2-hour trip every day :-)
ArPharazonV: well, twice a day
VardaValar1: That works
VardaValar1: Eowyn did that
Eonwe Valar: hehe
ArPharazonV: saving and sending transcript
ArPharazon-V (9:24:59 PM): saved
VardaValar1 (9:25:02 PM): Thank you :-)
ArPharazon-V (9:30:58 PM): sent
ArPharazon-V (9:32:23 PM): Namarie!
VardaValar1 (9:32:34 PM): Namarie :-)
EonweValar (9:39:58 PM): Sleep well, belatedly :}
VardaValar1 (10:30:34 PM): Think I'll go see about dreams from Irmo as well.
VardaValar1 (10:30:36 PM): Namarie!