September 30, 2012 Sunday Meeting
5pm EDT (GMT - 5)
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AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
Transcript work by Ar-Pharazon and Varda.
Members: AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Eonwe Valar (presiding), Glorfindel VG, VardaValar1
WoW expansion chat
15th Anniversary Chat Room Marathon begins!
Games Site Mass Update
Topic: Elvish food
The week-long Anniversary chat room marathon in AIM
began! The object is to keep the room open as much as possible until
the next meeting.
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya.
Eonwe Valar: Lvl 90 yet? :}
ArPharazonV: Heh. No. Barely halfway to 86. I tried to wait until the crowd had passed.
ArPharazonV: So did some pet capturing, and then levelled a panda monk until he was done with the Isle.
ArPharazonV: Unfortunately the next week is going to be very busy for me, so I doubt I'll get much further.
Eonwe Valar: I took a day off for pet battles to try and do that. I turned 89 today, hehe.
Eonwe Valar: *try and let the major push get by me.
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: One day wasn't enough. Even 4 days wasn't enough.
Eonwe Valar: Apparently.
VardaValar1: Aiya! Just made it home, hah!
ArPharazonV: I still found my questnodes today overrun with players.
Eonwe Valar: The first major push got by me alright, but I think I'm still in the second push, hehe.
ArPharazonV: Of course, I'm in the weekend-rush now; full of people who didnt'get the chance to play until the weekend.
VardaValar1: And then there's weekend traffic at your quest nodes.
Eonwe Valar: Still plenty of people, just not quite as many, and loads
of mining nodes for me. I've already maxed Blacksmithing and Mining,
and nearly so on Enchanting and Hewelcrafting on other chars being fed
Eonwe Valar: *Jewelcrafting.
ArPharazonV: Nearly got my first aid maxed out but that's pretty much it ;-)
Eonwe Valar: First Aid maxed, now sending all the cloth to my tailor, hehehe.
Eonwe Valar: Heya Varda :}
VardaValar1: Any new types of cloth?
Eonwe Valar: Windwool is the new cloth.
VardaValar1: Hiya :-)
Eonwe Valar: I'm getting a steady stream of it, Tailors ought to get an even better amount.
VardaValar1: Any membership or web news? : )
Eonwe Valar: Probably a good time to start the meeting, aye :} I gave
it a couple more minutes to see if anyone else was going to come in.
VardaValar1: Back to Gaming. ;-)
ArPharazonV: Kinda member, kinda guild.
Eonwe Valar: One sec.
Eonwe Valar: Elen Sila Lumenn Omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Kinda we'll never see him?
Eonwe Valar: Membership:
Eonwe Valar: Now go :}
VardaValar1: Way to go, Eonwe. : )
VardaValar1: Go ahead, Phar.
ArPharazonV: I'll just say that, assuming this is the week we try to
keep the room up, and I usually help with that, I'm going to be rather
busy this week, at least the first 4 days. So you won't see me around
too often, though I'll try to keep it open during the few hours I can
VardaValar1: Thank you. : )
Eonwe Valar: Aye, this would be the week. Thanks for doing what you can :}
VardaValar1: Thanks for the reminder too.
Eonwe Valar: So in case that doesn't make it obvious... Anniversary week this week :}
VardaValar1: *tosses confetti*
Eonwe Valar: Thursday is the Anniversary :}
Eonwe Valar: It'll be our 15th :}
ArPharazonV: Nice round number.
VardaValar1: The marathon annual week-long anniversary chat begins today, that's what Phar is referring to.
Eonwe Valar: The annual capital fireworks run is still slated for
Thursday in WoW, if we have people. I didn't get a chance to throw it
on the calendar, but I will tonight to remind everyone.
VardaValar1: Currently we still have two official WoW branches, one official LotRO branch, one official Eve branch, Steam.
VardaValar1: Good idea.
Eonwe Valar: And two SW:ToR branches, though those might be moving servers soon based on the last info I got about it.
Eonwe Valar: Any more membership news?
VardaValar1: Two branches?
Eonwe Valar: An Empire and a Republic branch, both on Rubat Crystal, last I heard.
VardaValar1: ahh, right
VardaValar1: Rubat Crystal server said it was going to disappear.
VardaValar1: Thanks, two it is.
Eonwe Valar: I don't have the info up on the Games Site, but we have at
least one person besides those we've heard about in the Guild branch
playing on SW:ToR.
Eonwe Valar: Which leads me to...
Eonwe Valar: Web:
Eonwe Valar: Games Site Mass Update - last day to get your gaming info in is today.
Eonwe Valar: Not that anyone in this channel this very moment has to worry about that, hehe.
Eonwe Valar: I'm going to try and get the final replies up today.
AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Sunshine : )
AriehnV: aiya there :-)
Eonwe Valar: Heya Arien.
Eonwe Valar: Any other web news?
VardaValar1: After that, it's ordinary individual updates.
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
AriehnV: what have i missed?
Eonwe Valar: It's Anniversary week, so chat channel marathon starts today.
VardaValar1: Only that since it's Anniversary week, please feel free to
send in anything for the Tolkien Site or the News page this week. : )
ArPharazonV: Still that dragon-theme going on?
Eonwe Valar: Other updates I hoped to have ready by the GSMU are going to have to come later.
Glorfindel VG has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aye, not required, but the theme is dragons.
VardaValar1: Aiya Balrog-slayer. :-)
AriehnV: i ve got a screenie of Justi in front of Yulon
Eonwe Valar: Heya Glorfindel.
AriehnV: does that count?
Glorfindel VG: Aiya :-)
VardaValar1: I have no idea what those names are. : )
AriehnV: Jade Serpent ^^
AriehnV: a dragon of sorts .. i would think a green drake
ArPharazonV: A sort of chinese dragon, yes
Eonwe Valar: Heh, now that I think of it, I took a couple of
screenshots today of Auros standing atop the peak of Neverest with an
Onyx Serpent (chinese dragon) flying around in the background. I guess
Icould send my best of that one in.
Eonwe Valar: Had I thought about it, I would've done the screenshots on my stone drake for an added dragoniness, heh.
VardaValar1: Send in whatever you think we can use on gaming dragons.
AriehnV: :-) oki
VardaValar1: Be sure to mention little things like game name and name of dragon and Valarites present if you can.
Eonwe Valar: Don't forget Tolkien-themed submissions for the Anniversary too, i.e. articles, art, stories, whatever :}
VardaValar1: poetry, drabbles : )
Eonwe Valar: Gaming:
Eonwe Valar: WoW:
Eonwe Valar: Mists of Pandaria out this week, I'm already lvl 89 despite taking a day off for pet battles, hehe.
VardaValar1: Fangorn was going after those pet battles last night. : )
Eonwe Valar: Lothar:
Eonwe Valar: Guild hit 19 earlier in the week, pushing 20 now, and will be there by tomorrow most likely.
AriehnV: congrats :-D
ArPharazonV: Yeah, guild xp is going really, really fast since the patch. We hit 22.. today or yesterday, I think.
Eonwe Valar: For those that didn't catch it in web news, we will be doing the capitals fireworks run this Thursday on Lothar.
ArPharazonV: It always tends to happen when I'm not online.
Eonwe Valar: Standard run time, so 7pm Eastern, 6pm Central.
Eonwe Valar: Bring fireworks :}
VardaValar1: For our small group, that 19 nearly 20 is pretty amazing.
VardaValar1: You bet, Eonwe!
ArPharazonV: Small group? We're just 4 people.
VardaValar1: What time, Eonwe?
Eonwe Valar: 7pm Eastern, 6pm Central as I said :}
Eonwe Valar: LotRO:
VardaValar1: Ok, LotRO
VardaValar1: The Harvestmath Festival has been going on with new rewards and we're still going after those, when not going after
VardaValar1: the various traits and gear we want for the upcoming expansion.
VardaValar1: Also the beta is still going and we have people there.
VardaValar1: End report
Eonwe Valar: Thanks :}
VardaValar1: For the anniversary, the LotRO fireworks are 8pm EST, 7pm CST. [Note: also 1pm Eastern for those who need the earlier time.]
VardaValar1: So I'll be hopping from one to the other
Eonwe Valar: Good thing we can get places quickly in WoW :}
VardaValar1: Aye : )
Eonwe Valar: Any other non-LotRO, non-WoW gaming?
VardaValar1: BroodWar for Fangorn and me
VardaValar1: Atlantica Online, Mass Effect 3 for Bilbo and Sauron.
VardaValar1: They both got Mass Effect 3 for their birthdays.
[Note: Diablo 3 folks playing too]
ArPharazonV: some flashgames, nothing much special
ArPharazonV: WoW took up much time
ArPharazonV: As for WoW, may I point you to the Brewfest currently going ;-)
Eonwe Valar: If we have enough of us 89-90 before the end of Brewfest,
we might get a few guild runs in on Coren Direbrew, but if not, no
biggy. I'd rather people enjoy the experience coming up.
ArPharazonV: lasts 2 weeks anyway
VardaValar1: And maybe fill in with pug folk.
Eonwe Valar: Only need 3 for guild credit, aye.
ArPharazonV: So you might have a chance.
Eonwe Valar: Any other gaming? Whisper me Tolkien Topics too :}
Eonwe Valar: Tolkien:
Eonwe Valar: Topic:
Eonwe Valar: The jelly donut: Created by Man, Elf, Hobbit,... Or a cloud of heaven straight from Manwė? :}
VardaValar1: I'd go for the latter.
VardaValar1: Of course if we get picky, it takes both Manwe and Ulmo to make clouds.
VardaValar1: Thus the jelly center for Ulmo.
ArPharazonV: Hmm, jelly donut... seems Hobbit-made, to be honest. Jelly doesn't seem Elvish.
Eonwe Valar: Why not?
VardaValar1: Jelly is made from natural fruits and berries, likely common among elves.
Eonwe Valar: Surely Elves had means of preserving fruit, and stumbled upon the gooey goodness of jams and jellies along the way.
Eonwe Valar: What could be more refreshing that athelas jelly?
Eonwe Valar: *than
VardaValar1: Sort of like mint jelly.
Eonwe Valar: Athelas jelly on lembas sounds like a win.
ArPharazonV: Sounds pretty good, yes.
VardaValar1: So, what foods were mentioned for elvish use? and drinks?
Eonwe Valar: Which books are we limiting ourselves to?
VardaValar1: Dorwinion wine at the king's table in Mirkwood.
Eonwe Valar: I think I remember corn being mentioned in Lays of
Beleriand, not so sure I recall it for Elves elsewhere off the top of
VardaValar1: Don't guess we have to limit it, but might mention if it's not canon.
VardaValar1: Lembas are given out only by a queen of the elves
VardaValar1: or ruling lady of the elves.
ArPharazonV: What was served when Frodo, Sam and Pippin met the Elves?
AriehnV: and wine i think
AriehnV: but Sam mentioned that the bread was very tasty
AriehnV: When Frodo woke up he said he had persuade Merry and Pippin to leave something for him
Eonwe Valar: I imagine cakes and various other pastries would be fair game for Elves.
ArPharazonV: "bread, surpassingi the savour of a fair white loaf to one
who is starving; and fruits sweet as wildberries and richer than the
tended fruits of gardens; he drained a cup that was filled with a
fragrant draught, cool as a clear fountain, golden as a summer
AriehnV: and venison and fresh berries i would suit them
ArPharazonV: *surpassing, and I'll be glad if that was the only typo
ArPharazonV: This is from Pippin's memory of the meeting with the Elves.
ArPharazonV: Hmm, moving on, what about Miruvor?
AriehnV: the cordial of Rivendell .. (it turned up in rp as well as you maybe noticed .. in the psychological session ^^)
VardaValar1: Ran across a mention just now of what the elves filled the
hobbits' bottles with that they found out on their journey: a clear
drink, pale golden in colour: it had the scent of a honey made of many
flowers, and was wonderfully refreshing. Very soon they were laughing,
and snapping their fingers at rain, and at Black Riders.
AriehnV: but Miruvor i think is used almost as medicine after very hard situations
AriehnV: and precious
VardaValar1: That was in A Short Cut to Mushrooms. Elves surely would have eaten mushrooms too, found quite naturally.
VardaValar1: At the beginning of the chapter, the elves had left fruit, drink, and bread for the hobbits.
VardaValar1: Phar's quote is from "Three is Company"
VardaValar1: Bombadil and Goldberry set quite a place, and a lot of what they ate would probably be available to elves.
Eonwe Valar: Glancing at the Hobbit, not much specific mention of food in Rivendell or Thranduil's Halls.
ArPharazonV: Except the wine.
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
Eonwe Valar: Which the wood-elves are said to be fond of.
VardaValar1: Sorry to be out of order: found what Goldberry served:
yellow cream and honeycomb, white bread, butter, milk, cheese, green
herbs, ripe berries.
AriehnV: aye i am sure elves would like that
VardaValar1: No mention of meat, but no comment that they didn't eat it.
VardaValar1: They kept a kitchen garden, elves probably did, surely at Rivendell.
ArPharazonV: Do we have any account of Elves eating meat?
ArPharazonV: Or serving it?
VardaValar1: The Mirkwood elves hunted the white deer. I can't imagine they'd waste the meat.
VardaValar1: Also, the first Vala they met was Orome the Hunter, and he went with them for their long journey.
VardaValar1: they = elves in general
VardaValar1: Probably had some pretty fancy dishes in Rivendell, or in Beleriand.
VardaValar1: Plenty of royalty, princes, lords. Not likely they were limited to simple fare.
ArPharazonV: How about Valinor? The Deathless Land?
VardaValar1: Good thought. They had a big feast for Tulkas' wedding.
LizMarr has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: I can't imagine there being much hunting and killing of animals done in Valinor.
ArPharazonV: Need a few steak-trees over here!
Eonwe Valar: Heya Liz Marr :} We're discussing food and drink among the Elves.
VardaValar1: Aiya Aleyne : )
LizMarr: I almost think Ent drink might be equal
Eonwe Valar: Celegorm and Curufin hunted with Oromė in Aman, and we can
probably assume there wouldn't be any creatures of Morgoth within the
borders of Aman.
Eonwe Valar: Scratch that, just Celegorm.
VardaValar1: At the wedding of Tulkas, the food isn't mentioned. Just "in that feast of the Spring of Arda".
VardaValar1: Sil, "Of the Beginning of Days".
Eonwe Valar: Amrod and Amras were also described as hunters.
Eonwe Valar: So the Noldor at least had meat on their table :}
LizMarr: Could that also be a description of proficiency, not what they did?
Eonwe Valar: Bonus hunter: Aradhel also liked to ride and hunt.
LizMarr: er, what their emply was
VardaValar1: Apparently the elves hunted meat, but I'm not finding
where they raised any animals for meat, although they might have.
Eonwe Valar: They had to hunt something :} Doesn't mean that's all they did, if I'm understanding you.
ArPharazonV: So the Deathless Land wasn't entirely deathless.
VardaValar1: Hunting means times of no meat, not necessarily their preference.
VardaValar1: Deathless actually referred to the Ainur, that they were
Undying. They put on bodies the way humans put on clothing.
VardaValar1: Aye, Phar.
LizMarr: When you are on the move you don't have time to grow a garden and sometimes it is not harvest or wild foods
VardaValar1: As in the journey towards Valinor? Aye, they would have to gather along the way and hunt.
VardaValar1: Later they had dwelling places though.
Eonwe Valar: On Death in Aman,...
Eonwe Valar: One of the later books in HoME (Morgoth's Ring or Peopls of Middle-Earth) described the fate of Men living in Aman.
VardaValar1: fast living. ;-) Short description.
Eonwe Valar: Rohghly described, the lives of the creatures/plants in
Aman match the passage of time in Aman, which coincides with the
noticable passage of time for Elves.
Eonwe Valar: *Roughly
Eonwe Valar: Only Elves per se would be deathless incarnates, though
humans living in Aman would see everything living pretty much longer
than they do.
Eonwe Valar: For Elves in Middle-Earth, of course, especially after the
rising of the Sun and Moon, everything lives a short space and dies
quickly, according to how they perceive time.
VardaValar1: A mortal entering Aman, however, burns his/her life up faster.
Eonwe Valar: That's a very rough summary.
VardaValar1: Mortal animals in Aman would be adapted to it, one would think.
Eonwe Valar: Pardon, I'm looking for the exact quote.
Eonwe Valar: OK, here we go.
Eonwe Valar: Text XI, Aman
Eonwe Valar: Morgoth's Ring., Myth's Transformed
Eonwe Valar: "In Aman, things were far otherwise than in Middle-Earth.
But they resembled the mode of Elvish life, just as the Elves more
nearly resemble the Valar and Maiar than do Men.
Eonwe Valar: In Aman the length of the unit of 'year' was the same as it was for the Quendi. But for a different reason.
Eonwe Valar: In Aman this length was assigned by the Valar for their
own purposes, and was related to that process which may be called the
"Ageing of Arda'.
Eonwe Valar: For Aman was within Arda and therefore within the Time of Arda (which was not eternal, whether Unmarred or Marred).
Eonwe Valar: Therefore Arda and all things in it must age, however
slowly, as it proceeds from beginning to end. This ageing could be
perceived by the Valar in about that length of time (proportionate to
the whole of Arda's appointed span), which they caleld a Year...
Eonwe Valar: ...It was, however, the fact that the Elvish speed of
'growth' accorded with the unit of Valian time that made it possible
for the Valar to bring the Eldar to dwell in Aman...
Eonwe Valar: ...For [the Valar and Maiar's] delight and use there were
in Aman also a great multitude of creatures, without fėar, of many
kinds: animals or moving creatures, and plants that are steadfast.
There, it is believed, were the counterparts of all the creatures that
are or have been on Earth, and others also that were made for Aman
only. And each kind had, as on Earth, its own nature and natural speed
VardaValar1: (Here there be unicorns.)
Eonwe Valar: ...all those creatures that were thither transplanted or
were trained or bred or brought into being for the purpose of
inhabitation in Aman were given a speed of growth such that one year of
the life natural to their kinds on Earth should in Aman be one Valian
Eonwe Valar: That's probably enough there, hehehe.
Eonwe Valar: Eh, one more bit..
VardaValar1: (week-long chat marathon. Think we can manage the time.)
Eonwe Valar: "For the Eldar this was a source of joy. For in AMan the
world appeared to them as it does to Men on Earth, but without the
shadow of death soon to come. Whereas on Earth to them all things in
comparison with themselves were fleeting, swift to change and die or
pass away, in Aman they endured and did not so soon cheat love with
Eonwe Valar: So that's a somewhat longer version of what I was trying to say :}
Eonwe Valar: And there's mention of hunting in "Laws and Customs among the Eldar" :}
VardaValar1: A sadness for elves living in Middle-earth. All things passing so quickly.
VardaValar1: Boar-hunting was mentioned.
Eonwe Valar: On the other hand, the Laiquendi seem to have a problem
with Men hunting in their lands, declaring them "unfriends" for the
deed, but we don't hear about their position on the Noldor, and they
don't seem to have any problems with Thingol.
VardaValar1: So the animals in Aman were considered not to have the
same sort of life or spirit as the elves or humans. That would make it
easier to hunt them.
VardaValar1: Poaching. That can cause hardships to the locals.
Eonwe Valar: The Laiquendi just didn't seem to like people hunting beasts or cutting down trees.
ArPharazonV: So maybe it's not about hunting friendly creatures, but more about depriving the locals of their food sources
AriehnV: but probably only if they acted without the consent of the owners of the land
VardaValar1: Aye, Phar.
VardaValar1: If it was by consent, the needs of the locals would have been taken into consideration already.
AriehnV: i d think so
Eonwe Valar: "These folk are hewers of trees and hunters of beasts; therefore we are their unfriends,..."
VardaValar1: Hewers of trees. Hey, our flet was in that!
Eonwe Valar: They weren't saying "Don't hunt and cut down trees" so
much as "don't do these things on our land," but it's obvious they
weren't crazy about either.
Eonwe Valar: Since the chant has died down, shall we bang the gavel and let chat carry into the marathon? ;}
VardaValar1: I'm slipping away for just a few minutes for supper.
VardaValar1: Sure : )
Eonwe Valar: chant = chat
Eonwe Valar: *Raises gavel into the air*
Eonwe Valar: *bangs gavel*
Eonwe Valar: Let the Valar Guild's 15th Anniversary Week-long Chat Marathon commence!
AriehnV: who disturbs my meditation? *growls*
VardaValar1: We do with merriment and invite you to join. : )
AriehnV: hehe :-)
Eonwe Valar: Let the Hobbits bring forth the feast! :}
VardaValar1: *helps the Hobbits*
VardaValar1: Hey, one gets to lick the bowl that way! ;-)
AriehnV: *steels honeycomb*]
VardaValar1: *collects more honeycomb* None need do without during our anniversary!
VardaValar1: Take all you wish.
AriehnV: much appreciated :-D
Eonwe Valar: That's why we brought Hobbits to Valinor :}
VardaValar1: I'll be right back. Speaking of supper... :-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
LizMarr has left the room.
ArPharazonV: saving and sending transcript