Valar Guild

June 3, 2012 Sunday Meeting

5pm EDT (GMT - 5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

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Transcript work by
Ar-Pharazon and Varda.

Attending: (5)
    AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Eonwe Valar, fladrifv, VardaValar1 (presiding)

Meeting begins
    Hama-(V) and sons
    If you could live anywhere in Middle-earth (not Valinor) at the time of the LotR, where would it be?
    A little more on the Tolkien topic.
    Some of the forums out there including the one we have.
    RP discussion and post.
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Phar. I show we have another 5 minutes. :-)
ArPharazonV: Yep.
VardaValar1: Love it when clocks come together.
ArPharazonV: They should stay that way!
VardaValar1: I wish.
AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Arien :-)
ArPharazonV: Aiya

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Membership:
VardaValar1: We just had Memorial Day weekend last weekend, which always has an impact with all the traveling.
VardaValar1: Indis is still traveling for other reasons.
VardaValar1: Any membership news from you two?
ArPharazonV: I suppose it counts as membership/gaming news.
VardaValar1: Eonwe is coming online now.
VardaValar1: Fire away, Phar. :-)
ArPharazonV: We found Valandil online in WoW tonight :-) Arien's been talking to him because I was raiding at the time, so I guess she'd better talk about it.
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Great that you saw Valandil again. :-)
VardaValar1: Aiya Eonwe : )
VardaValar1: Go ahead, Arien.
Eonwe Valar: Heya all.
ArPharazonV: Aiya
AriehnV: wwith what?
VardaValar1: You saw Valandil
AriehnV: oh aye yes lol sorry just died
AriehnV: okay back to the meeeting
VardaValar1: ouch
VardaValar1: *rez*
AriehnV: its all right lol the groups tonight are horrible
AriehnV: well yes a very pleasant surprise that valandile turned up again
AriehnV: he said he had a bit more time now again and wants to get back into the game
AriehnV: He joined with an alt in my other guild but he joined the Valar channel with that character
VardaValar1: yay!
VardaValar1: *drags him to LotRO because that's what I do*
AriehnV: and i asked him whether he still wants to be considered an active member of the Valar guild which he positively confirmed :-)
VardaValar1: Thank you!
AriehnV: he seemed to be quite positive as i said but he had to go after i inivited Orophin into the Loreseekers , but he will be back for sure
AriehnV: thats it from that front , i was very very happy to see him again
VardaValar1: That's good news, thanks. :-)
AriehnV: and thank fully those rascals managed to kill the instance pfft
AriehnV: even without me :-D
VardaValar1: Leaving you time to make a report. : )
AriehnV: *nods*
VardaValar1: Hama and his two sons are having a computer connection problem but expect to have that monster beaten in about a week.
VardaValar1: Any other membership news?

VardaValar1: Web:
VardaValar1: New story by Jay of Lasgalen, called "Nursery Crimes":

VardaValar1: Gaming:
VardaValar1: Diablo 3 just had a patch. Patch notes are available at:
ArPharazonV: Hah! It's having patches and hotfixes and restarts all the time now. The times I logged on to play late in the evening only to find the server was restarting in 15 minutes...
VardaValar1: That was patch 1.0.2
ArPharazonV: They were several, at least.
VardaValar1: ouch Phar
VardaValar1: Bilbo and Sauron certainly seem to manage to play a lot.

VardaValar1: WoW:
ArPharazonV: Well, anything that fixes/improves the game's fine with me. It'll settle down after a while :-)
VardaValar1: We heard a bit from Phar and Arien on WoW. Eonwe, anything you'd like to mention?
Eonwe Valar: Children's Week this week. I missed Friday, no run last Sunday. Runs can still happen on those days or any day if people come in. That's about it :}
VardaValar1: I have been trying to be a good girl and show up for the WoW regular times.
ArPharazonV: Children's Week? Wasn't that weeks ago?
VardaValar1: Fangorn, Elwing, and Eowyn were gaming yesterday. Smaug has been spotted although not at the same time. Nob has been in a bit.
Eonwe Valar: Er, Darkmoon Faire, not Children's Week.
VardaValar1: Thanks Phar. : )
Eonwe Valar: Faires are for kids too, hehe.
ArPharazonV: Right! The Faire. Got my last pet from the Faire today, just wanted to mention, so all done with the dailies etc now :-)
VardaValar1: Grats : )
VardaValar1: How much longer does the Darkmoon Faire go on?
Eonwe Valar: It goes on the entire first full week of every month.
ArPharazonV: Aye, starting on the first sunday of the month.
VardaValar1: ahh thanks!
Eonwe Valar: Good way to pick up random mats from the fishing nodes around the island.
AriehnV: and five skill points for professions
VardaValar1: Nice
AriehnV: espescially annoying ones like leatherworking and jewelcrafting ^^
Eonwe Valar: Ore, cloth, leather, herbs, etc, if you have nothing more exciting to do, or are waiting on a dungeon/raider queue.
Eonwe Valar: *raid queue
AriehnV: *nods*

VardaValar1: LotRO:
VardaValar1: We have quite a bit going on and a good bit of grouping. The official times don't always get as much play as we'd like but we still do them. : )
VardaValar1: Monday: Library. Gamers were Tulkas, Melkor, and Varda. An all Valar team. :-)
VardaValar1: Wednesday was a Tier 2 Inn of the Forsaken with Pippin, Nimrodel, and Varda.
VardaValar1: oh, yes both were completed.
VardaValar1: The Spring Festival is still going. Still a little time to get the two new horses.
VardaValar1: I also recommend using the lottery for free goodies.
VardaValar1: Log in and clck Home for your account name. I have two accounts and find the second one listed just under the first at the top of the page.
VardaValar1: Hit Home again.
VardaValar1: Check mark what you want to enter, hit Submit.
VardaValar1: Any other gaming news or other business you'd like to bring up?

VardaValar1: Tolkien:
VardaValar1: Question: If you could live anywhere in Middle-earth (not Valinor) at the time of the LotR, where would it be?
ArPharazonV: Ah, time's fixed, eh, too bad...
Eonwe Valar: Imladris, with a summer home in Eregion, hehe.
VardaValar1: The Shire? Bree? Rivendell? Mirkwood? Angmar? Gondor?
VardaValar1: nice Eonwe. : )
ArPharazonV: Probably somewhere peaceful, not too complicated, bit in touch with nature. So that'd probably be either the Shire or somewhere in the heart of Lorien.
VardaValar1: Dol Amroth?
VardaValar1: Lothlorien, good spot.
VardaValar1: Would we seek peace or a place we felt we could make a difference?
VardaValar1: Laketown could be interesting. Dale. Erebor.
VardaValar1: Maybe wander with the Rangers.
ArPharazonV: I may like my videogames to have some action in them but in real life I"m not much of a fighter :-) Peace preferred.
Eonwe Valar: Don't think I could live inside a mountain for too long, hehe.
ArPharazonV: Laketown might be nice.
Eonwe Valar: And depending on the faithfullness of the reproduction of Lothlorien in LotRO, I couldn't stand all that tree-hopping.
AriehnV: The Shire i think or near Methedras
AriehnV: in Rohan
AriehnV: i need hills ^^
VardaValar1: Live with the Beornings maybe?
AriehnV: oh aye why not ? they ve got nice animals
VardaValar1: and honey-cakes. ;-)
AriehnV: :-)
ArPharazonV: I might not be very good with agriculture, but if it meant being able to live and wander among the hobbits of the Shire I could learn :-)
ArPharazonV: Ooh, beornings sounds nice.
AriehnV: yum - "grabs one"
AriehnV: in the shire you wouldnt starve either with all the parties and mathoms :-)
VardaValar1: Fangorn voted for the Shire as the most untouched relatively.
VardaValar1: Even with Saruman and Grima and Lotho.
AriehnV: i am sure they saved up some staches
VardaValar1: I think maybe Tookland or Laketown for me. : )
Eonwe Valar: Well when you have an army guarding your borders in secret, it's easy to focus on enjoying the simple things in life :}
ArPharazonV: Buckland, maybe.
VardaValar1: Until they left.
ArPharazonV: Between river and forest, with a bit of adventure in the residents.
VardaValar1: The Tooks started the ruckus, heh.
VardaValar1: Laketown had a lot of interesting interaction with other Men, Elves, and Dwarves. But all the docks and boats everywhere, with trees and mountains... Nice. Lots of trade.
Eonwe Valar: Or as Aragorn said, "iIf simple folk are free from care and fear, simple they will be, and we must be secret to keep them so."
VardaValar1: Of course it was also in the path of the northern armies and helped hold the pass, or there would have been no Evenstar in Gondor.
VardaValar1: Eonwe, maybe that was why Bilbo and Frodo were less simple than some others. And the hobbits living along the edge of the Old Forest.
ArPharazonV: Another reason to live in Buckland :-)
Eonwe Valar: *My quote is in relation to my previous statement.
VardaValar1: The rest were fortunate to have old veterans home from the wars to help give them direction.
VardaValar1: Buckland is good, aye. Lots of underground warrens though, and I like to be outside a bit more.
VardaValar1: Then there are the Grey Havens. Right on the water, get to see lots of interesting elves passing through, feel useful.
ArPharazonV: If you like the sea, probably your best bet.
VardaValar1: Even wizards once. Who knows what else came over from Valinor that didn't enter into the story.
Eonwe Valar: Get them talking about the Elder days, then they realize they want to stay in Middle-Earth? :}
VardaValar1: hehehe
VardaValar1: Ok, so we're taking bids on houses in Rivendell, Eregion, Buckland, Tookland, and a couple in Laketown. : )
VardaValar1: and Lorien.
ArPharazonV: And among the Beornings?
VardaValar1: Unless Arien decided on honey-cakes?
VardaValar1: or Rohan?
VardaValar1: She may do like Eonwe and have a summer-house. ;-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
AriehnV: hehe
VardaValar1: Phar and I will be neighbors in Laketown.
VardaValar1: So, now that's settled?
VardaValar1: (oh the pun)
ArPharazonV: Sure. And we'll have summer homes in the Shire.
VardaValar1: Ok. : )
ArPharazonV: Tookland for you and Buckland for me.
VardaValar1: Nice, and we can visit each other for extra fun. : )
ArPharazonV: Yep!
AriehnV: its not that the Beornings live that far off .. just a few tiny mountains in the way .. thats nothing ^^
VardaValar1: Just down the pass. : )
VardaValar1: Hey, we're into traveling, right?
AriehnV: unless of course you fancy travelling underground but yell have to shove some goblins out of the way :-)
VardaValar1: *shove shove*
VardaValar1: Do we get to be were-bears?
VardaValar1: *goes back to fishing from the front porch with a wave to Phar on his red-sailed boat*
ArPharazonV: *waves back from the wheel*
VardaValar1: *grin*
VardaValar1: *picks up a hammer with one hand, holding onto the fishing pole with the other*
VardaValar1: *thump*

VardaValar1: After-meeting!
VardaValar1: *checks the RP forum thread*
VardaValar1: Looks as if we want to do some quick library checking. Phar has a book to investigate, Meren would love to start digging in.
fladrifv has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Fladrif :-)
VardaValar1: Meeting is officially over, but we can still ask you,
fladrifv: Aiya
VardaValar1: where would you like to live if you could be anywhere in Middle-earth at the time of LotR?
fladrifv: fangorn
VardaValar1: Most of us wound up with a summer home too. ^^
VardaValar1: That's a good choice. : )
VardaValar1: Would you want a summer home in the Old Forest?
fladrifv: I would take my summer home in the shire, more chance on seeing the entwives that may be out there
VardaValar1: Interesting. Better chance than the Old Forest, then? Why?
VardaValar1: Old Forest is more Entish than Entwivish, maybe.
fladrifv: they searched the open fields as rumours said
AriehnV: Aiya ent
fladrifv: Aiya!
ArPharazonV: Aiya Flad :-)
fladrifv: all got entisch for a min?
AriehnV: hmm more treeish i guess
ArPharazonV: A bit, I suppose.
fladrifv: well since the sun is already hiding...
AriehnV: yeah looks like Tirion wants to start chasing me again
AriehnV: cheeky boy
VardaValar1: We ended the meeting a bit before you came.
VardaValar1: I was looking at the Guild Launch site. They do charge a fee.
AriehnV: which one where?
VardaValar1: Just surfing, no worries. : )
VardaValar1: Elatan commented on how good Guild Portal was, and I got to looking around.
VardaValar1: Elatan-(T) uses:
VardaValar1: He mentioned it in relation to the handy calendar.
AriehnV: all right i just miss a gallery feature there
AriehnV: else it doesnt look bad
VardaValar1: hmm, I'd expect some kind of pic posting. Hadn't looked for that.
AriehnV: galleries are nicer :-)
AriehnV: of course you can just post them but then they clutter threads and topics
AriehnV: and forums
VardaValar1: I don't see a picture gallery either.
VardaValar1: Guild Portal also costs money
VardaValar1: Our ProBoards is free. : )
VardaValar1: Ads pay for it.
VardaValar1: Anyway, here's Guild Portal:
VardaValar1: Here's ProBoards, the one we use:
VardaValar1: The original reason we picked up a discussion board was for all the folks who couldn't make it to meetings, and were missing out on Tolkien chats.
VardaValar1: Our old Yahoo board had quite a bit of Tolkien discussion. :-)
VardaValar1: We tried to get a board that was friendlier for keeping track of such chats, but then the chats stopped.
VardaValar1: I asked one guy and he said the threads were old and therefore probably not something to be chatted on.
VardaValar1: Actually the topics are timeless and anyone is free to add their two cents any time on any of them.
VardaValar1: Also, the threads point at old chats we had in AIM, so maybe folks thought they couldn't add more.
VardaValar1: ProBoards features:
Eonwe Valar: Elrond post on the forum.
VardaValar1: Thank you, Eonwe.
VardaValar1: Hmm, so the host might have to be tricked into willingly giving entry.
VardaValar1: How did Calaron manage to get possessed?
ArPharazonV: I think the post said something about the ring being used.
ArPharazonV: Of course this is not *exactly* an ordinary Houseless case.
VardaValar1: The ring made him willing somehow. Sneaky thing.
ArPharazonV: Maybe just gave it a backdoor.
VardaValar1: Good point. A ring is one of the reasons it's not ordinary. And it's not just an ordinary houseless. It is an elf sorceror?
ArPharazonV: Well, now it's an elf ;-) Was probably human to begin with.
Eonwe Valar: Everything I saw on the Houseless talks about the Houseless being admitted, and alot of related coimments about the Fëa in the end being.. "indomitable" I think was the word used. While an individual can be bribed and coerced, it can't just be taken against its will.
ArPharazonV: Though the idea of a dark elf willingly serving Sauron would be.. interesting.
VardaValar1: um, then it's not a Houseless One.
ArPharazonV: I never said it was. That's just what Elrond assumes.
VardaValar1: A human ghost? A wight Maia?
VardaValar1: Aye, agreed.
VardaValar1: Figuring what it might be.
Eonwe Valar: Elrond assumes nothing, just provided the lore related to such matters :}
VardaValar1: heh, ok.
ArPharazonV: He was corporeal until shortly before the possession. Pretty much skipped bodies over a distance.
ArPharazonV: Maybe he studied the Houseless as well, and decided to use a bit of ring or maybe staff power to move his own spirit.
ArPharazonV: And allright, Elrond assumes nothing, but he would see the Houseless as being the most similar and the most likely to the situation.
VardaValar1: He had a human body. So it may have been old, poor health, badly battered in falling ruins, and he wanted a new one. Better, stronger, faster.
Eonwe Valar: In the end, whatever the source, this spirit would've had to gain entrance to the Hroa by admission of the natural possessor of the body.
Eonwe Valar: Whether by deceit, coercion, promise of power, or the like.
VardaValar1: He might be under the misapprehension that it would make him immortal, not realizing it's the fea, not the hroa, that does that.
ArPharazonV: Perhaps, Eonwe. But as your post said, that's by all the lore they have. Nobody's ever witnessed a possession by Ring before. Maybe the Ring did make Calaron more susceptible to letting in a stranger.
VardaValar1: Deceit is very likely. We don't know Calaron well. Would he have been interested in something that might give him more power, power to defend Mirkwood better perharps.
VardaValar1: *perhaps
Eonwe Valar: "Letting in" still implies admission.
VardaValar1: Calaron is in the ring. ^^
VardaValar1: Vacant body, sorceror moves in.
VardaValar1: Just tossing out notions, guys. Don't sweat.
ArPharazonV: I suppose so, Eonwe. And I'm more thinking along the lines of a "backdoor" mechanism; that normally a Houseless can't get in without being invited because of some mental shielding, but wielding the Ring gave it a tiny access door.
ArPharazonV: Also, reading back the post about the possession, I wonder in what world I thought "Something was wrong. Something was very wrong." would make for a good original dramatic sentence.
ArPharazonV: Well, can't worry about that now!
VardaValar1: :-) Know that feeling
Eonwe Valar: What's barring the Houseless, or any spirit, admission to the Hora is that it's not that spirit's Hroa. The Hroa already has an indweller, and the natural one at that.
Eonwe Valar: *Hora = Hroa
ArPharazonV: Anyway. We know the One Ring affects its wielder. Gives more power to its desires, instills some kind of greed and possessiveness. All the Rings of Power do; for the Elves, their desire to conserve their lands is greater. For the dwarves, they crave more gold. Humans, just desire more power. We've seen it also in Gollum, Frodo and Bilbo.
Eonwe Valar: The Three were created specifically with preservation in mind.
ArPharazonV: This Ring might be a lot less in power than the One Ring, but it's still possible that *if* Calaron desired more power to defend his land, the ring would've opened his mind just enough for the spirit to make himself welcome.
ArPharazonV: Fine, forget my statement about the Elven rings then :-)
ArPharazonV: Add to that the power of the staff, which not only spreaded the mirk/shadow but apparently let the sorcerer use the shadow to transport his spirit across a distance to Calaron, and you have a pretty much unprecedented situation, so I hope we can go a little lenient on the concept of willingness :-)
Eonwe Valar: "Some say that the Houseless desire bodies, though they are not willing to seek them lawfully by submission to the judgement of Mandos. The wicked among them will take bodies, if they can, unlawfully. The peril of communing with them is, therefore, not only the peril of being deluded by fantasies or lies; there is peril also of destruction. For one of the hungry Houseless, if it is admitted to the friendship of the Living, may seek to eject the fëa from its body, and in the contest for mastery the body may be gravely injured, even if it be not wrested from its rightful habitant. Or the Houseless may plead for shelter, and if it is admitted, then it will seek to enslave its host and use both his will and his body for its own purposes. It is said that Sauron did these things, and taught his followers how to achieve them."
ArPharazonV: "taught his followers how to achieve them" sounds good :-)
Eonwe Valar: One of the last paragraphs of "Of Death and the Severance of the Fëa and Hrondo [>Hroa]
Eonwe Valar: "
ArPharazonV: Ejecting the fea from its body seems interesting. Maybe the sorcerer did manage to force what remained of Calaron into the ring, after some days struggle.
ArPharazonV: Though why he would not then just remove the ring and be done with this opposition alltogether, I don't know.
ArPharazonV: Worth the effort to keep it on, perhaps.
VardaValar1: He can't take it off. It got tight, as if his hand became too warm.
ArPharazonV: The *sorcerer* can't remove the ring from the body he possesses?
ArPharazonV: Calaron in the ring is forcing it on, perhaps?
VardaValar1: Maybe it's part of being difficult to remove the true possessor of the Hroa.
VardaValar1: Might be an unexpected and unpleasant surprise for the sorceror. :-)
ArPharazonV: Aye.
ArPharazonV: I never actually thought we might redeem Calaron and thought he might have to be killed off. But if we can salvage the ring... well, I don't suppose it'd be very easy to find a new hroa for him.
ArPharazonV: Possibilities everywhere!
VardaValar1: Shove the sorceror back in his old body in Angmar!
Eonwe Valar: New Hroa for Calaron? No, unless he's going to do to someone else what was done to him.
ArPharazonV: If his old body still exists. Might have been left in Mirkwood or wherever he vacated it from. Might have decayed. Might have been burned by instruction.
VardaValar1: hmm
VardaValar1: Shove him into the ring. Calaron will be glad to help with that.
ArPharazonV: I'm working on ideas, Eonwe. Letting him live in Calion's head as a second personality seems a farfetched option.
VardaValar1: The sorceror might be considering ways of removing the ring from his finger, along with Calaron. Trying not to have to cut off his new, nifty finger. One reason to return to Angmar?
ArPharazonV: Could be. Might think he needs the combined staff for it.
VardaValar1: Maybe so.
ArPharazonV: Great, just hit lvl 10 with my first D3 character. I really need to play this more often.
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: Are you on the American server?
ArPharazonV: nah, Europe, I won't have much use for US until I solo my way through the plot for the first time anyway. Though I did spend a few seconds on US when I just logged in to see who was online.
ArPharazonV: And saw you in WoW :-)
ArPharazonV: Amazing what you can hit with a Demon Hunter if you just aim blindly offscreen into a mob of incoming enemies.
ArPharazonV: Hmmmz, unlocked the blacksmith. This will be interesting.
VardaValar1: :-)
VardaValar1: salvage is good for blue junk
VardaValar1: I need to exit AIM, lagging.
VardaValar1 has left the room.
fladrifv has left the room.
AriehnV: first boss down lady Deathwhisper up
ArPharazonV: Can't bring her down?
AriehnV: we try again
ArPharazonV: ah :-)
AriehnV: stack more up
AriehnV: ha that worked :-D down she is
ArPharazonV: great :-) to the ship next! [Note: we 4-manned the ship before Arien needed to go to bed. Lock requested.]
ArPharazonV: But I'm off! Saving and sending transcript.
AriehnV: oki rest well :-) NN
AriehnV has left the room.