April 22, 2012 Sunday Meeting
5pm EDT (GMT - 5)
Back to News
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
Transcript work by Ar-Pharazon and Varda.
AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Eonwe Valar, fladrifv, Galdor-(V)/galdorandwe,
Glorfindel VG, Indis-(V)/karakedi25, Menelvagor Valar, VardaValar1
New member: Hama-(V)
Pax East convention report
StarCraft/MLP cross-over cartoon
Return of the Ring convention upcoming, Luthien-(T) is a presenter twice.
RP discussion about to start
RP forum story: discussion of the staff; completing story plotting.
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Phar :-) A tad early
ArPharazonV: Well, was done with raiding, so thought I might as well hop in.
VardaValar1: Sounds good. :-)
AriehnV has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
fladrifv has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya.
Glorfindel VG has entered the room.
ArPharazonV: Aiya folks who just got in
Glorfindel VG: Aiya
VardaValar1: Aiya Arien, Eonwe, Fladrif, and Glorfindel :-)
karakedi25 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Inds :-)
AriehnV: aiya all :-)
VardaValar1: Aiya :-)
VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: We have a new member, Hama-(V). :-)
ArPharazonV: Welcome to him!
VardaValar1: He met Miriel at the LotRO festival and saw that Valar
would be a good fit. Irmo tested and he's been a fun and active member.
VardaValar1: He's from Denmark. : )
VardaValar1: Any other membership news?
VardaValar1: Fangorn is home, Eowyn's ship should be in dock today and she'll be back from a two-week vacation.
VardaValar1: No news on that front.
VardaValar1: The Diablo 3 open beta is this weekend, and some Valarites are in there as we speak.
VardaValar1: There is also a Fainan, Demon Hunter, involved. *cough*
VardaValar1: May 15 Diablo 3 is supposed to come out.
karakedi25: how does it compare with lotro?
ArPharazonV: I always picture the Warcraft demon hunters when I hear that class name.
VardaValar1: LotRO is going to be my main game for sure, but this is a fun diversion.
ArPharazonV: I assume the Diablo demon hunters are not blindfolded half-clothed grumpy night elf men.
VardaValar1: That's because they're all from Blizzard, aye Phar.
VardaValar1: Not in this version, hehe.
VardaValar1: One difference between this and Diablo is that you can play each character as either gender.
VardaValar1: Any other games besides WoW and LotRO this past week?
fladrifv: highpitched but still grumpy?
fladrifv: chess championship
ArPharazonV: Few flashgames. Also done some Rayman Origins but probably last time for quite a while.
VardaValar1: Grats Flad. You're in the finals, o Ent?
fladrifv: yes fighting for the 1st position
fladrifv: one league higher
fladrifv: 6 matches away from victory or glorious defeat
AriehnV: Ent a go go!
ArPharazonV: I've come across a graphic error which makes certain
(often lethal) features of the levels invisible. So far they've only
been in 2 levels; the first one as platforms (but it was an easy level,
so walking on invisible platforms wasn't a problem)
VardaValar1: Way to go, Flad!
VardaValar1: heh, just have to do the leap of faith, Phar?
ArPharazonV: but in the second they're spikey tentacles strewn across
the level which you have to avoid. Makes it quite hard when you can't
actually see them. And looking at videos for further levels they are
going to be rather more common.
fladrifv: walks off stage giving a glare to the king of numenor stay off our tree fellows
Eonwe Valar: "Only a penitent man will pass", hehe.
VardaValar1: Or share the stage?
VardaValar1: Aye, Eonwe. : )
VardaValar1: Nice thing about typing, we can see what everyone's saying.
fladrifv: says to himself he might even build a boat out of the stage
ArPharazonV: While with some trial and error I did manage to finish
this one, I think I'll pass on playing it some more until there's a
driver update that fixes it; or until I get a new graphics card, which
is slightly more complicated but more likely to fix the problem; some
research on the internet showed that this particular card isn't
*actually* supported by the game, though it's above the minimum
VardaValar1: With red sails?
AriehnV: black black!
VardaValar1: Nvidia had a recent driver update.
fladrifv: stands high up his hill still scared of long gone dangers
VardaValar1: Nutty when it's above requirement but unsupported.
VardaValar1: Phar might go sit in a tree on a hill to continue expounding.
ArPharazonV: Aye, I know. But what can you do? And it's not like the
game's glitchy and off-color and everything, it's just these invisible
fladrifv: sounds like z buffer issue
VardaValar1: Hope the developers get their act together?
ArPharazonV: I did install the second-newest driver, dating from March,
but the newest one is a bit too new for now; I have heard rumors that
it glitches WoW etc.
VardaValar1: Any fix for a z buffer issue?
ArPharazonV: I have no idea what a z buffer issue is.
AriehnV: i keep crashing every two seconds in the pandaren starting zones .. both the level 85 one and the level 1 one
VardaValar1: yikes, Arien.
AriehnV: error 132 .. multiple traps pfft
fladrifv: pitty off all the effords you have put into that level 1
karakedi25: I just installed the latest, and lotro is running somewhat better
AriehnV: :-P flad
VardaValar1: That new Nvidia update may have improved my LotRO too.
fladrifv: spreading wood splinters everywhere
AriehnV: *burns splinters *
VardaValar1: Good thing you're more flexible under all that bark.
ArPharazonV: Anyway, I want to upgrade my pc eventually (and it will
have to be a major upgrade, this current setup is reaching its limits),
but Fladrif has always been the one to help me with it, and he knows
more about my pc's hardware than I do now; and he's not in the
neighbourhood anymore. So I'll have to find another way to do it.
VardaValar1: Send him travel money? ;-)
ArPharazonV: But I might use the newest driver at some point and see if
it fixes anything. But that's probably a temporary solution at best.
fladrifv: im actually lots closer nowadays hehe
ArPharazonV: You know, if that was all it took, I might do so.
ArPharazonV: Well, yeah, but I'd still need you in town for a few days, and that's tricky these days.
VardaValar1: Work faster, Fladrif!
fladrifv: only need a bed hehe
VardaValar1: Couch maybe? Toss on a pillow, sheets, blanket.
VardaValar1: That's up to you two old friends to work out though. : )
ArPharazonV: Could work. We might set something up this summer, depending on your vacation time or something.
VardaValar1: StarCraft/BroodWar gaming by Fangorn (another ent!), Sauron, and Varda.
ArPharazonV: More ents! I promise I won't chop em down.
VardaValar1: Good thing. : )
AriehnV has left the room.
VardaValar1: It's hard to chop down ents from inside a hole anyway.
ArPharazonV: I might have agents. Black Numenoreans still surviving somewhere on that side of the ocean.
VardaValar1: Hmm, heard some of those guys are wearing black bedsheets.
ArPharazonV: Could tell you about some progress updates from the pony
games I've been tracking too, but eh, nearest release date is still 2
months away, so *shrug*
ArPharazonV: on with WoW
VardaValar1: Eonwe, what's going on in WoW?
VardaValar1: Any festivals still going or did we miss out?
Eonwe Valar: Noblegarden's long over at this point.
Eonwe Valar: Children's Week is the next big event, coming in May.
VardaValar1: o good. I like that one.
ArPharazonV: Starting in a week, actually, I think
ArPharazonV: I hope there's not a new pet again, I keep being one year behind with no way to catch up ;-)
VardaValar1: So that's about the 1st of May. Adopt an orphan and take him with you on adventures and feed him/her ice cream. : )
VardaValar1: hehe - poor Phar.
Eonwe Valar: I'm not sure off the top of my head, but there's 3 sets of Orphans at least.
VardaValar1: WoW Friday Bilbo was on a good bit, including hitting the big Dragonsoul pugs.
ArPharazonV: Yes, but I'm talking about the BC orphans who keep getting a new pet.
Eonwe Valar: The standard orc/human depending on faction, the
Draenei/Blood Elf depending on faction, and the Oracle/Wolvar,
whichever you don't have yet.
VardaValar1: I popped in briefly and crafted, didn't see anyone.
VardaValar1: er, Dragon Soul.
Eonwe Valar: I'm done with the Children's Week talk, btw. :}
VardaValar1: Thanks, Eonwe. :-)
VardaValar1: LotRO is our busy place, and gets busier all the time.
AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: We have friends with other kins that help us fill in
groups both theirs and ours, and we have people on nearly any time of
ArPharazonV: Aiyata Arien
VardaValar1: I'm happy with our going back to recruiting too.
AriehnV: what did i miss?
VardaValar1: Welcome back, Sunshine. : )
VardaValar1: Just starting on LotRO talk.
AriehnV: I ve seen Hama btw already
AriehnV: seems a nice guy
VardaValar1: Aye, he has a good sense of humor too.
VardaValar1: The fifth anniversary festival for LotRO is going. Come get your Fireworks Horse. : )
VardaValar1: Also be sure to grab your goodies for each year you've been in LotRO, as they pop up in your inventory.
VardaValar1: The third bag with lockbox keys is repaired and will show up now.
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Five years already?
VardaValar1: For our regular Monday run, We completed the Roots of Fangorn. We're getting the hang of it. : )
VardaValar1: Aye, 5 years. Hard to imagine.
VardaValar1: We got a special horse for those of us who've been in for
5 years. Nice blue and white barding that goes well with the outfit. : )
VardaValar1: We also did the Limlight Gorge dailies.
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Actually we do the LG dailies a lot, but it gets reported when it's at the regulaly scheduled run time.
VardaValar1: Wednesday we completed both again, proving it wasn't a fluke and we can do it.
karakedi25: Plus we have the big dragon raid almost on farm status
VardaValar1: True! :-)
VardaValar1: Saturday we completed the dragon run again, (Draigoch), and Roots of Fangorn.
karakedi25: and some of our members are now running the Tower of
Orthanc wings with other groups, so we'll be more ready when our time
VardaValar1: Our next intended challenge is to attack Saruman himself, starting with the Tower of Orthanc wings.
VardaValar1: A number of us have been picking up experience and should be able to help the group.
karakedi25: The wings will be challenging, and Saruman himself even more so.
VardaValar1: It has three wings to start, then the shadow wing. Saruman is getting nervous.
karakedi25: Shadow is relatively easy. Acid is horrid.
VardaValar1: We're getting nicely geared on mains and some alts, so we should be able to bring in the group make-ups needed.
VardaValar1: Acid takes a lot of jumping and some coordination. We'll get it. : )
VardaValar1: Doing Shadow means you're locked out of the other three wings for a bit, right?
karakedi25: If you do it before the others, lockout until Thursday reset
VardaValar1: Ok, thanks for helping keep that straight.
ArPharazonV: Hang on. You attack Saruman?
karakedi25: I believe the order is Fire/Frost, Lightning, Acid, Shadow, Saruman
VardaValar1: Thursday is the general reset day for most raids, for those who don't know.
VardaValar1: We're going to go annoy him at least. We attack his tower.
ArPharazonV: I thought this was supposed to be in LotR canon but like.. a few days behind or something?
ArPharazonV: So when is this supposed to take place?
VardaValar1: The old boy is slippery.
VardaValar1: Probably going to try it in a few weeks. Still working it
out. And it will be a challenge to get coordinated for each wing.
ArPharazonV: I meant in the canon :-)
VardaValar1: Then we'll work on the last part.
karakedi25: we don't kill him. We interfere with him and drive him away from the top of the tower
VardaValar1: The ents attack Saruman in the books around the time of Helm's Deep.
VardaValar1: Aye, we can't kill him and stay canon. But we can be pesky.
ArPharazonV: Ah, around then. So do you meet Merry and Pippin?
VardaValar1: So this is before Helm's Deep.
VardaValar1: We have met Fellowship members as they travel, during the book quests.
VardaValar1: And aye, we've met Merry and Pippin. :-) And all of the Fellowship during book quests.
ArPharazonV: You're not attacking with the Ents, then, my mistake.
VardaValar1: Can't. Fladrif and Fangorn would get upset with us!
VardaValar1: That's their gig.
karakedi25: no, this is an apocryphal attack to interfere with his ring-making
ArPharazonV: I see.
VardaValar1: Saruman never did seem to do all that hot with his
ring-making, although he was supposed to be an expert in the books.
VardaValar1: Why was that? Well, maybe it had something to do with interruptions from pesky LotRO players.
karakedi25: they work hard to stay lore-consistent
VardaValar1: They invited lore-nuts to help them keep consistent, so we give them a hard time. : )
karakedi25: and they seem to appreciate it!
VardaValar1: They do a nice job. Right number of floors on the Prancing Pony, and yes we checked. ^^
VardaValar1: They're LotR fans too. : )
VardaValar1: That makes the game even more fun for us.
VardaValar1: It also helps them keep a consistent, strong story line, hard for a lot of games.
karakedi25: very much so--I saw that at PaX East
VardaValar1: JRRT gave them tons of material.
VardaValar1: Indis, would you like to tell a bit about PAX East? Very few of us got to go to that convention.
karakedi25: they're really enthusiastic about the game and the lore
karakedi25: that was part of what made Pax so much fun to visit
karakedi25: I went just for fun, and only for 1 day, because Saturday
tickets were sold out. I spent most of my time at the LotRO display
talking to devs and such, though I tried DDO...
karakedi25: and found it much less to my taste (twitch gaming, action, and nowhere near as subtle and nuanced as LotRO)....
karakedi25: also looked at other games on the floor--it was huge--and decided I'm glad I'm where I am.
karakedi25: Late Friday, they had a trivia contest (lotro and lotr) for
Turbine Points and some other items. I gained a lot of TP from that :-)
and a lot of teasing from Sapience, who ran it and remembered me from
karakedi25: Unfortunately I missed the party, because it was on Sat. night.
VardaValar1: Grats on being remembered by Sapience! Very cool. And huzzah for your perfomance!
karakedi25: It was a lot of fun, and the atmosphere was very happy,
despite the crowds and noise. People were enjoying themselves.
karakedi25: Sapience remembered me because of my performance on the trivia at last year's party :-P
ArPharazonV: Well, at least you're consistent in your performance, then.
VardaValar1: Best reason to be remembered. : )
ArPharazonV: And what Varda said :-)
karakedi25: Not much else I can tell (other than getting the give-away horse for account not just alt)
VardaValar1: ohh, right. That was a nice horse.
VardaValar1: Phar found a cute cross-over cartoon. Ar-Pharazon, go ahead.
galdorandwe has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Galdor :-)
ArPharazonV: Well, I thought I'd add it as a little joke here, since
it's related to Starcraft; as I said a few weeks ago I'm a fan of the
My Little Pony cartoon, and the action-filled season 2 final aired last
night; and on one website where people add memes and other funny
pictures relating to the show, I found this picture based on a shot
from that episode
VardaValar1: kek, thanks, Phar. : )
ArPharazonV: Not really worth a major mention but I thought I'd share it for a laugh.
VardaValar1: What is this? Some kind of fun gaming and hobby group? : )
ArPharazonV: Well yes, but a cartoon like this is neither Tolkien nor Gaming :-)
VardaValar1: Two games: StarCraft and MLP. : )
ArPharazonV: MLP's not technically a game, but an animated series. I
just shared it a few weeks back because of the fangames that are being
made of it.
VardaValar1: On to a quick bit of Tolkien:
ArPharazonV: But this was worth it for the Starcraft reference.
VardaValar1: Luthien-(T) had some cool news that she shared in a side chat.
VardaValar1: I also put it on the News, but in case you missed it:
VardaValar1: Return of the Ring
[note: convention] will be held in the UK on August 16-20, 2012. Some
of Luthien-(T)'s paintings will be on exhibit there. :-) She's also
giving a Sindarin language workshop, "a beginner's / family level "Hi,
my name is Alice; hello, nice to meet you! My name is Bob" sort of
VardaValar1: Maybe Arien or others will be able to go. You can drop in and say hi to Luthien.
AriehnV: i am just checking where it is
ArPharazonV: Alice and Bob, typical Sindarin names.
VardaValar1: Sindarin is especially helpful for all the LotR and Hobbit
stuff going on. Quenya is a bit high-faluting for most of the LotRO
environment, although Valarites can get away with it even in rp. : )
VardaValar1: Something we tend to forget about is that we have Tolkien
topics going on our forum and can dig them out again at any time. They
galdorandwe: Just saw this on their site http://www.thehuntforgollum.com/ Looks interesting...from the same folks that did Born of Hope.
VardaValar1: We also have a couple of trivia games.
VardaValar1: Aye, I think we've mentioned it before, but it bears repeating.
VardaValar1: Thanks for the reminder, Galdor. : )
VardaValar1: Afk for a moment, Fangorn calling.
VardaValar1: Galdor found an interesting bit of trivia. Go ahead.
galdorandwe: a mention of the wood lebethron in the LoTR.
galdorandwe: Faramir gives Sam and Frodo lebethron staffs that were
trimmed to match their stature. I must have missed it a number of times
galdorandwe: I would have through Ilex since they were in Ithilian, but
I guess the men of the White Mtn.s used lebethron...learn something new
Eonwe Valar: WB :}
VardaValar1: What a nifty bit of triva, something that we notice more after playing LotRO and having to collect wood types. : )
VardaValar1: Thanks :-)
VardaValar1: Do we have any comments concerning the rp before adjourning?
karakedi25: As I remember, lebethron actually grows in the Gondor area, not trollshaws. That was an error in the game.
VardaValar1: Then you should definitely look up where it tells that and
mention it on the forums to help the devs, maybe put in a "bug" report,
VardaValar1: Maybe a few seeds strayed?
karakedi25: I believe I already bugged it, early on.
VardaValar1: Yay! That's our job as Valar. : )
VardaValar1: I did notice a change in where some of the resources dropped a while back, but more for the gaming than lore.
karakedi25: I've bugged quite a few things, including the misuse of Sindarin plurals for singular NPCs.
karakedi25: Drives me nuts.
VardaValar1: They have trouble just using English, as if they don't run it through a spell checker.
VardaValar1: A lot has been fixed, but why it gets in there at all, I don't understand.
VardaValar1: The use of Old English needs watched too. Drives me nuts.
Bugged it quite a few times, mainly for ghosts in the Lone Lands.
ArPharazonV: Well, I'm sure there's a lot of text and dialogue in these
games. Even if a very small percentage is in error, it's still the
errors you remember.
Eonwe Valar: You're assuming whatever program they use to enter this info *has* a spellchecker :}
karakedi25: to say nothing of all the misused apostrophes :-( :-(
VardaValar1: If it doesn't, then they should run it first in Word or
even their email before putting it out to a bunch of linguistic nuts.
:-) Begging for trouble.
VardaValar1: Aye, and in the festival, intrest instead of interest. But it makes us wake up, heh.
VardaValar1: The rp is on a slight hold due to our love of quality, some research in progress. But it will be showing up later.
Eonwe Valar: The sheer amount of information their dealing with would
make it unfeasible to type it up in one program, then copy/paste to
another, I would imagine. Plus, depending on whatever program they're
using, they may run the risk of copying characters from Word that would
be hard to bug check.
VardaValar1: Then they need to hire Indis to spell check for them. We,
their loyal gamers, will continue to proofread for them though.
Eonwe Valar: I'm not saying istakes shouldn't be corrected, just that they happen, no matter how careful one is :}
Eonwe Valar: Like that one there, heh.
VardaValar1: Are there any further comments, suggestions, observations, or words of wisdom?
VardaValar1: Agreed, Eonwe. So we will keep helping them out. : )
karakedi25: of course
ArPharazonV: Hmm. I wanted to say something after reading the post on the staff, but now I'm not sure.
VardaValar1: Aye. Manweitis is understandable when rushed.
ArPharazonV: I think I'll reread.
VardaValar1: Then you can comment here? :-)
ArPharazonV: If it stirs up the same thought, yes.
VardaValar1: Good deal.
Eonwe Valar: I expected to find more in the story about the staff, but I didn't anything aside from the two mentions I gave.
VardaValar1: I'll keep AIM up for a bit during the After-meeting to catch cool comments.
VardaValar1: We really didn't talk about it much. Interesting that we
didn't. But now it's time to bring it up again in more detail.
VardaValar1: Now that maybe we have some more thoughts to chew on.
VardaValar1: *swings gavel*
ArPharazonV: Hmm. Well, there was still some stuff from last week we still needed to decide on, I believe.
ArPharazonV: *pulls back fingers*
VardaValar1: Feel free to chat about cabbages, kings, and rp. :-)
karakedi25: afk for a few minutes
VardaValar1: hmm, missed the king of Numenor's fingers, it would appear.
VardaValar1: Eonwe, thanks for digging through for all that info on both the scimitar and staff. That's quite a chore.
Eonwe Valar: I'd like to finish digging up everything on the ring, the
possession, and the sorcerer to get a clearer picture of all three of
the subjects I've been digging up, since we're uniting them.
Eonwe Valar: MP. I really needed to get a clearer picture of what we were working with.
ArPharazonV: Ah, well, yes, that was something I wanted to bring up. I
could describe here what I always thought the idea would be with the
sorcerer and ring and possession, in case we haven't discussed it in
full detail last week.
VardaValar1: The woods were to be retaken by strange morgul-works that
would include a fear and a slow lethalness into the creeping darkness.
These would be controlled from a deepset Angmarin ruin by an artifact
to which they referred to as what translates to 'the crooked staff',
and in ancient times was called "the staff of unlight".
VardaValar1: we must send folk to infiltrate the depths of the Angmarin
ruins to find the controlling staff. These people must be good with
going underground and with stealth.'"
VardaValar1: The base is supposed to be Angmar, so that works. And that is where the staff is, that Thranduil told us of.
Eonwe Valar: The problem with the Staff *still* being in Angmar and
spreading its influence to Mirkwood, is that even Sauron had to have an
emissary in the area to spread his influence/shadow/anything else.
ArPharazonV: Yes. With this sorcerer operating in Mirkwood, and the
staff still being in Angmar, he could not have been handling it
VardaValar1: ArPharazonV: What we should probably find in Rivendell is
not a clue to him, but to the staff. Whereabouts in Angmar it might be
located, how to get through Angmar, what to expect there besides
Calaron's forces (which are plenty again, whatever he could find in the
mountains as he traveled to Angmar).
ArPharazonV: Which is an interesting issue; if he did in fact abandon
his own body to possess the elf, who was taking care of the staff in
Eonwe Valar: Greenwood didn't become Mirkwood overnight, after all.
VardaValar1: and who is taking care of the sorceror's body?
ArPharazonV: Possibly not necessary. It was old and breaking, the plan
was to abandon it permanently. If the possession would succeed, there
was no need for the body.
Eonwe Valar: I would assume, that if the sorcerer gave up his body and isn't of a strictly Ainurian nature, he can't go back.
VardaValar1: If he did lose his body, he would really want to stamp out
what's left of Calaron. Calion's presence reminding Calaron of his old
life would be a problem.
ArPharazonV: If the sorcerer was to be driven out, he would need to
find a new body swiftly before being whisked out of the world of the
living (though a Nazgul-like state might be possible for a while).
ArPharazonV: And yes, Varda, that's what he's been doing, and with reasonable success.
VardaValar1: Maybe he puts himself partly in the staff?
Eonwe Valar: The nazgul still have their bodies.
Eonwe Valar: After a fashion.
ArPharazonV: True, Eonwe. But a spiritual life in the shadow world, I would mean. Maybe like the barrow wights.
VardaValar1: Visible if you're wearing the One Ring, at least.
ArPharazonV: I was wondering if he could put himself in the ring.
ArPharazonV: It would probably need a rewrite if the possession came from the ring, since that's not what I described.
VardaValar1: Sauron put himself partly in the One Ring. Sauron and
Morgoth put parts of themselves in minions, objects. Arda was Morgoth's
VardaValar1: Where do you want the possession to come from so we can work with that?
VardaValar1: We don't want to stomp on your storyline from ignorance, so maybe at least a caveat? : )
Eonwe Valar: The question would be if there were any precedent in
Tolkien of a fëa binding itself in such a fashion to anything but
VardaValar1: Sauron and Morgoth's partial bindings count?
VardaValar1: What about "houseless ones"?
galdorandwe has left the room.
VardaValar1: Although even houseless ones I think were only interested in a hroa.
ArPharazonV: If I recall the post right, will look it up, it came from
a sort of cloud of shadow during the battle, intensifying, and
concentrating itself on Calaron, with use of the ring perhaps.
Eonwe Valar: The Houseless were Elves, first. I question if Man had that kind of "freedom" to refuse the summons.
VardaValar1: ArPharazonV: If he actually has to locate a device, it
might give us some time, and it would be a way to slip some route
information to us in Rivendell if what we're actually looking for is
not the staff, but the other device, which might be stationary and more
easily found. And harder to be outdated than a mobile staff.Eonwe
Valar: Well, not to borrow heavily from D2, but the staff could easily
require a headpiece or something.
VardaValar1: The headpiece being maybe the scimitar's hilt?
ArPharazonV: But a partial anchor might help, yes. If he bound his own
spirit to the ring (remember that he's been using sorcerous knowledge
from Sauron and his minions) it might serve as an anchor to keep him in
the world for a short time after abandoning his body.
ArPharazonV: It would also make the possession easier.
ArPharazonV: So he would partially put himself in the ring and then remain tugged to the ring after releasing his old corpse.
VardaValar1: I kinda got lost. Did Calaron have the staff? or a ring?
Eonwe Valar: Elves, by their nature, were bound to Ea. Men were meant to leave it.
Eonwe Valar: Calaron had a ring, and as we're looking right now, the staff somehow too.
ArPharazonV: A ring, to start with. Which amplified his power. He
either left this ring for Calaron to find back in the north on his
scouting mission, or it was forced on him during the battle by his
minions. I prefer the former though character motivation makes it a bit
iffy. Why would Calaron even keep it?
VardaValar1: So maybe the staff completed lets him move completely into a body wearing the ring?
Eonwe Valar: Whether the Staff was in his direct possession (no pun intended) or not is part of what we had at issue last week.
ArPharazonV: We discussed the possibility of him having found the
staff, yes, and also using it to greaten his power. It could even be
the combination of staff and ring that made it possible to bind himself
to the ring strongly enough to make the possession possible.
VardaValar1: Right now Calaron can still fight, maybe even win with help, but with the completed staff, he's evicted?
ArPharazonV: Amplification, though I tend to use that term too much.
VardaValar1: Good term. : )
ArPharazonV: Evicted? Maybe. Possibly smothered. Consumed. Burned into
nothing but a small glimmer that has no hope to fight back but is only
released when the body dies or the sorcerer is driven out. Possibly
VardaValar1: Get to use a woofer staff and tweet headpiece? : )
VardaValar1: Loss of control like a coma state, maybe.
ArPharazonV: I'm starting to feel a bit vague about the thing. I don't
explicitly believe in invulnerable "souls" or fea, though I know it's
canon to the world, so actually absorbing someone's personality and
memories while annihilating that part of Calaron which is still free
will seems a bit hard to reconcile with an indestructable fea.
VardaValar1: It's a story, so we go with it. The fea is indestructible. Memories might be accessible from the brain?
ArPharazonV: The possession was actually meant to, eventually, have
Calaron's thoughts and memories absorbed by the sorcerer, while leaving
that bit of Calaron that is actually individual, unable to fight back,
maybe even put in a coma of sorts, yes.
VardaValar1: But we know about comas, where people no longer move the
body at all, although they may wake up from it years later.
ArPharazonV: Perhaps Calaron has actually been put out of commission,
in a way, to the point where he is not actually aware of what is going
on in his own body anymore, permanently asleep, unable to fight back,
while still actually *existing*.
VardaValar1: The brain could be carrying the memories like a hard drive maybe.
VardaValar1: He's not completely down yet, which is part of the
sorceror's problem. May lose control of the body partly or completely
with inattention if Calion is ready to jump in.
VardaValar1: Calaron, pardon.
VardaValar1: Calion may cause Calaron to surface more.
ArPharazonV: Perhaps. But I don't envision Calaron really being up for
the fight at any rate, that's how deep the possession has gone. The
whole shooting the girl incident was meant to simply break his fighting
back to the point where it is very, very difficult to resurface. So
far, the encounter with Calion in the clearing has not done so. At all.
ArPharazonV: The sorcerer will feel, and be, quite secure in his new
body. Evicting Calaron's fea is not a priority, and it is very little
ArPharazonV: Though combining staff and headpiece might give him the
power to evict him, it is not for this reason that he's after the combo.
Eonwe Valar: Reminds me of the dilemma Tolkien had with the concept of
Elvish re-incarnation. He couldn't reconcile Elves being born reborn as
the phyisical children of new parents with a fëa of different
descent (more or less). He ended up scrapping it because he decided
such a state would have to be a state of pain for both fëa and
VardaValar1: He had a point, because the fea would have the knowledge of an adult the way he had it.
ArPharazonV: If I recall, the idea was for the memories to not be present in childhood but resurfacing over the years.
Eonwe Valar: I recall that as well.
VardaValar1: Why would it be a state of pain then?
Eonwe Valar: Because the fëa and the hroa are made specifically for eachother.
VardaValar1: Just can't jump elf variety?
VardaValar1: Like the Valar created their bodies from their thoughts according to their personalities.
Eonwe Valar: The old fea would be put in a body it was not made for, the new hroa would be given a fëa it was not made for.
Eonwe Valar: Rough description, but should be clear enough without digging into my books.
VardaValar1: Need to make the baby body take on the characteristics from the fea instead of the parents. Tricky.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, and in the process,...
ArPharazonV: Tricky indeed, since we know genetics was definitely in, as can be seen from the hair color etc.
Eonwe Valar: You would be denying *true* descendants to the new parents.
VardaValar1: Aye. Not fair to the parents.
Eonwe Valar: Which would also be unfair.
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
VardaValar1: Genetics being observed caused JRRT problems. I love how he tried to keep consistent.
Eonwe Valar: The better solution, more in tune with Elvish nature, is
that the fëa retains a memory of the hroa, such that the Valar can
"read" this information and rehouse the fëa properly.
VardaValar1: Glorfindel of Rivendell was going to be a blond Sinda, til
the name problem came up. But since Gondolin had Sindarins in it, he
could still have kept the race.
ArPharazonV: Without new parents, simply a fresh body.
VardaValar1: Glorfindel apparently got a fresh body?
VardaValar1: He didn't seem to be reborn.
ArPharazonV: Would Maedhros get his hand back?
VardaValar1: He didn't. But it seemed as if it might be possible.
Eonwe Valar: I have the inkling of a discussion involving that in the back of my mind, but yes, he was re-housed.
ArPharazonV: If reincarnating, of course.
Eonwe Valar: With a new body, why wouldn't he?
VardaValar1: With all the sword hacking going on, seems like they would have had a lot of folks with parts missing.
ArPharazonV: So would he still have his swordskill with the other arm as well?
Eonwe Valar: Missing a hand is not a natural condition to the hroa. It would certainly be corrected if re-housed.
VardaValar1: Maedhros retrained so that he used his remaining arm extremely well.
Eonwe Valar: Quite likely. Would make him incredibly deadly I imagine.
ArPharazonV: Well, perhaps not. You can train one arm, you can train
another arm, but actually learning to use them both together is a whole
VardaValar1: An elf has lots of time to figure it out. : )
Eonwe Valar: Aye, not like he'd have alot on his plate, hehe.
VardaValar1: Wars going, he'd have an incentive to learn.
ArPharazonV: Sooooo.. does sorcerer guy have staff, or does it remain in Angmar?
Eonwe Valar: None going on in Aman. Since we're contemplating his re-housing, he'd have nothing until the End of Arda.
Eonwe Valar: Staff: I would put it this way:
ArPharazonV: Unless he went back to Middle-earth, but I don't see that happening after the third age.
VardaValar1: Maedhros was in Arda.
VardaValar1: Pardon, going back and forth. You meant the sorceror.
ArPharazonV: I meant Maedhros going back to Middle-earth, yes.
VardaValar1: Maedhros was not dead.
Eonwe Valar: Story says it was in Angmar. We don't know how old that
intel is though, and the detail wasn't much greater than "it's in
Angmar." It could very well have been in Angmar at the time, taken by
the sorcerer to Mirkwood, and that's when the "real" trouble began
involving the staff.
ArPharazonV: Oh! Right. He didn't actually die. On-screen, anyway.
Eonwe Valar: Actually,..
VardaValar1: He sang sadly by the ocean.
Eonwe Valar: Maglor is not dead, Maedhros is.
ArPharazonV: No, wait, yes, he did. He threw himself into the fire with a silmaril.
ArPharazonV: Maglor's the one by the ocean.
VardaValar1: boy, so I got 'em mixed up. Thanks.
Eonwe Valar: Don't tell brothers you get them mixed up, hehe.
VardaValar1: You're right, Maedhros' hand burned, etc. He jumped in.
VardaValar1: Ok, Dracxil. I mean Eonwe.
ArPharazonV: Right. I never noticed the parallel: it must have been his one remaining hand that got burned ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Yeah. Guess he figured with no right hand and a left hand in eternal pain now, he had nothing to lose.
VardaValar1: Ran out of hands!
VardaValar1: So we left the staff open-ended on whether it was brought to Mirkwood from Angmar?
Eonwe Valar: I think the best way to handle the staff thing is that the
intel on it isn't as fresh as we'd like. It has no real impact on the
story, since the Staff has to return to Angmar to be completed anyway.
ArPharazonV: Well, it is if we want a bit of a useful backstory for the
sorcerer. As we have it now, he uses the staff and the ring to anchor
himself to the ring;
VardaValar1: He's got the ring and staff and has to get them to Angmar, thinking the headpiece is coming along right behind him.
Eonwe Valar: But it leaves us without focusing too hard on the problems
of how something this powerful could've been ignored for so long when
only half of it can put out the kind of power that can specifically
target Mirkwood from Angmar and not bedetected.
ArPharazonV: gets the ring to Calaron, then abandons his body (what
happens to staff?) to possess Calaron through the ring, apparently not
retrieving the staff (he didn't have it on him during our confrontation)
VardaValar1: Only much later does he learn the headpiece is coming along behind him with a hostile party!
ArPharazonV: Yes, Varda. That's another thing we have to settle, since we were on that when we ended last week.
VardaValar1: Agreed. Tryiing to settle it.
ArPharazonV: Does he notice the headpiece is missing before or after reaching Angmar?
VardaValar1: Good poinit, staff not visible during confrontation.
VardaValar1: He thinks it's following, feels it coming along behind him
maybe even. But not noticing the change in whose carrying it.
Eonwe Valar: I don't see why if he were in Mirkwood, where he has
servants bringing the sword to him, he wouldn't leave Mirkwood with
both in hand if he could.
VardaValar1: He may not have risked the staff in a direct confrontation? Had it hidden or carried by separate party?
ArPharazonV: Well, his confrontation with us in the clearing didn't go
too well. His control over western Mirkwood isn't as great as he thinks.
VardaValar1: The mirk needs work.
Eonwe Valar: The staff could easily be with his trusty steed, hehe.
VardaValar1: That's true. : )
ArPharazonV: He might have been eager to get out of there with the
staff and headpiece following him instead of waiting for them to be
brought to him.
ArPharazonV: On the other hand, he might have sent the staff Angmar-wards before the ambush.
VardaValar1: He might get the staff from the other group that is maybe
ahead of him, not stopping for the confrontation. Catches up to them.
ArPharazonV: Let's say he did get the staff back from his forces after the possession.
ArPharazonV: While setting up the ambush, he learns that the headpiece is found.
VardaValar1: Or the headpiece was being tested against Thranduil's magic to see if it was the real thing?
ArPharazonV: He insists on the ambush, but is eager to get the next
part of the plan going, and does not want to risk us finding out he has
the staff on him.
VardaValar1: He might have been testing several objects to find the right one.
ArPharazonV: So, he sends the staff towards Angmar, and gives orders
for the headpiece to be brought there as well, before executing the
ArPharazonV: After the confrontation, he goes there himself, under the
impression that both pieces are already on their way. Which is true for
the staff alone.
ArPharazonV: Or yes, headpiece could have remained behind to be tested, but I'm not sure how to place that in.
VardaValar1: He got pushed so he didn't have time to see which of the
objects was the real headpiece, just send it to him after seeing which
one reacted correctly at Thranduil's gates.
VardaValar1: That's what the orc parties were doing. The orcs we bumped
into had the right one and were supposed to then come along behind.
VardaValar1: But they had a greedy orc who tried to grab it, and they
had to get it back from him or face probable horrible death.
ArPharazonV: That works. He's busy with us, but his forces have found
several things that could be the headpiece, and he just tells them to
test them against the Halls while we're out.
ArPharazonV: But how would he even know that the real one was among those being tested?
Eonwe Valar: What we were discussing last week was that the runes on
the blade (and presumably on the staff?) somehow identified the pieces
and when they were near to eachother.
VardaValar1: That can be a story in itself. Maybe learn it in Rivendell. One of the objects in this chest is it. But which?
ArPharazonV: Good point, Eonwe. The staff could have revealed that the
blade was found, though apparently he didn't think to check which of
the blades was glowing too?
VardaValar1: They had been so close to each other that the ambience had
affected the others, for the sword to recognize. So they had to be
separated for testing.
VardaValar1: er, staff. *sigh*
ArPharazonV: Allright. But he knew the headpiece was among them.
ArPharazonV: So he sends the staff away ahead of him (or ties it to a mount suitably distanced from the action)
ArPharazonV: and gives orders that when the real blade is found, it's to follow him.
VardaValar1: The mount idea was a good one. : )
ArPharazonV: Yes, it was :-)
VardaValar1: Makes better sense, the mount does.
VardaValar1: ok so far.
ArPharazonV: After the confrontation, he shakes us off, retrieves mount
and staff, and heads to Angmar, assuming the sword is coming after.
ArPharazonV: And it is, but not in a direct line ;-)
Eonwe Valar: Were we still concerned he'd get there much much sooner than we would?
VardaValar1: And he may have a reaction from the staff saying it's incoming.
ArPharazonV: yes, Eonwe, but:
ArPharazonV: After he comes to Angmar, he'll notice the sword's not there. The company with the real thing isn't coming.
VardaValar1: since the staff could tell one of the objects was the headpiece.
VardaValar1: The company that was supposed to have it arrives, sans headpiece. Shortly thereafter sans heads?
ArPharazonV: So what does he do? He sends a big part back to Mirkwood
to see what's taking so long, and though he might see the sword coming,
he doesn't know the precise direction.
ArPharazonV: a big part of his forces, that is
ArPharazonV: Maybe to do some more searching if it got misplaced somewhere.
VardaValar1: The orcs know about us.
Menelvagor Valar has entered the room.
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya!
VardaValar1: Aiya Menel : )
ArPharazonV: What remains with him in Angmar, he spreads out all over
the kingdom in order to find this important location where the pieces
can be combined.
ArPharazonV: So when we get there with the sword, he's not as prepared
for us as he'd like to be; therefore, him reaching Angmar before us is
not a problem.
VardaValar1: So he doesn't know the location? ouch for him.
AriehnV: aiya ! :-D the later the evening the more beautiful the guests as they say :-)
ArPharazonV: He may have a general idea, Varda, or know of several possible locations spread out all over the place.
Menelvagor Valar: Hehe, thank you!
VardaValar1: Is that in direct proportion to the amount of wine consumed by then, Arien?
ArPharazonV: Aiya Menel :-)
AriehnV: *grins wickedly"
Eonwe Valar: Heya Menel :}
VardaValar1: Maybe if the staff were in one piece, even not properly joined, it would have found the spot for him efficiently.
ArPharazonV: And yes, the orcs know about us. Which might be exactly
why he sends a lot of them back into Mirkwood. He might have considered
the option that we'd taken it.
ArPharazonV: In fact, he might send some orcs southwards as well, try and waylay us on the road north.
VardaValar1: hah! Action for Frali's axes!
VardaValar1: We'll just watch and cheer.
VardaValar1: Menel, would Estarion like to comment during the week
maybe? He's the strong, silent type. But maybe he'd have a comment
about being at the Lasty Homely House?
VardaValar1: or maybe he doesn't want to go inside the building?
Menelvagor Valar: I'll get around to it this week :-)
VardaValar1: cool! We'll watch for it. : )
Menelvagor Valar: Sorry, but I've been so busy lately, it seems my life is going faster than I am :-D
VardaValar1: Surprise! It's going at exactly your speed, super-fast!
Menelvagor Valar: haha :-)
Menelvagor Valar: I'm really loving it, but still, it leaves a sense of bewilderment at times.
ArPharazonV: So, we okay with this bit about the sorcerer? If Eonwe
wants to make a post on the forum about sorcerer/ring/possession, I'll
follow it up with some ideas I had about him to make it clearer, if
there is something important missed.
VardaValar1: Anyway, right now Calaron is still on his way to Angmar
with the ring and staff. We have the headpiece that he thinks is in the
possesion of the orc party following him.
VardaValar1: Instead it's about to be viewed by Elrond. oops.
VardaValar1: So we're all set?
Eonwe Valar: Let me meditate about it over the week and during/after my digging.
ArPharazonV: Yep. And I've still got a pack of wolves on the road as well, but we'll see more of them later.
VardaValar1: wolves for Calion... ;-)
VardaValar1: Not wargs then?
VardaValar1: Feel free, Eonwe/Elrond. np
ArPharazonV: Hmmm, not sure. Was Helvy a wolf or a warg? I imagine them
originally being wolves in service of the Orcs of the northern and
misty mountains, but not actually being manipulated well-bred wargs as
those Saruman used in the movie.
VardaValar1: We need to let Phar sleep eventually. : )
VardaValar1: A wolf.
ArPharazonV: Were they not just wolves in The Hobbit?
ArPharazonV: In that case, they're wolves.
VardaValar1: Helvy was a wolf.
VardaValar1: There were wargs in the Hobbit.
VardaValar1: They were in cahoots with the goblins, intelligent.
Eonwe Valar: And big enough to be rode like horses.
ArPharazonV: Hmmm. So the ones we faced at the western gate were wolves, then?
ArPharazonV: How big are wolves, anyway?
VardaValar1: Really huge ones can hit 120 pounds.
VardaValar1: Normally not that big.
VardaValar1: We can say they were bigger back in those days, if you like. : )
ArPharazonV: I imagine they're not as big as the Orc mounts in WoW.
Menelvagor Valar: 120 pounds is like 55 kg I think? :-)
ArPharazonV: We do know that the Orcs in our RP have ridden wolves, though those might be wargs.
ArPharazonV: And yet, I've carried Helvy on a horse.
Menelvagor Valar: Wargs are usually larger and more muscular, more like 140-160'ish pounds I would guess.
VardaValar1: Orcs ride wargs, not wolves.
VardaValar1: But sometimes wargs were called wolves, just to be confusing.
Menelvagor Valar: The WoW wolves / wargs are almost twice the size as normal ones.
VardaValar1: 120 pounds is about the weight of a human woman.
ArPharazonV: Allright. Orcs use wargs. But the pack I've been forming
for the story consists of wolves. They might face wargs, and bring them
down in sheer numbers; but whether they'd be able to rescue/recruit
them as with other wolves is unlikely.
ArPharazonV: These wargs seem more bred to the service of Sauron/Saruman, evil to the bone.
VardaValar1: Wolves could bring down wargs as a pack, aye. They can bring down moose, which are enormous, by technique.
Eonwe Valar: All Wargs are bred for such purpose.
VardaValar1: Wargs are unnatural, aye.
VardaValar1: Wolves are natural.
Eonwe Valar: Like comparing orcs to elves, trolls to ents, spam to steak,... :}
VardaValar1: lol - aye!
ArPharazonV: Good to know. There won't be any wargs in the final composition ;-)
VardaValar1: Our orcs would ride wargs, not wolves.
ArPharazonV: I guess I'm free to explain more about what I have planned for them, at this point.
VardaValar1: Helvy has a pack? :-)
ArPharazonV: After Helvy runs from the battle during which Calaron gets
possessed, he's basically roaming Mirkwood a bit, both north and south
of the road. He has a strict hatred for the "mirk"/gulhuine/shadow
whatever had possessed him and still holds the minds of many of the
ArPharazonV: While not as consciously planning as we have been, most of
his actions have included overpowering other wolves and breaking them
free from this shadow, as Calion has done for him. He has since then
recruited these in a pack of his own.
ArPharazonV: Goal is to release his kind from the shadow or as many of
his kind as he can find, as well as a sort of vengeance plan on what he
perceives as the source of the shadow: the sorcerer, Calaron
ArPharazonV: It's been growing nicely, and by the time he will leave
Mirkwood to chase Calaron to Angmar, most of the northwestern Mirkwood
wolves will be under his leadership, in various "companies".
ArPharazonV: I'll give some posts of him advancing on Angmar, and his
pack will play a part in our confrontation with Calaron. Evening the
odds, so to speak.
VardaValar1: Very cool. And they would probably be black wolves as
Mirkwood critters tend to be, so they'd be spectacular as a pack.
VardaValar1: That's a long way our of their territory for wolves to
travel, so they must be very intent on following our evil sorceror.
ArPharazonV: After it is over, I'll write an epilogue post where his
"people" will roam freely through the Northwest corner of
Mirkwood/Greenwood, establishing a sort of non-agression pact with the
Mirkwood elves (though they are simply animals, I'm sure some form of
communication between elves and animals is clearly possible)
ArPharazonV: and helping with the War of the Ring in their own way
ArPharazonV: perhaps defending their little corner during the war against Dol Guldur
VardaValar1: Elves can communicate somewhat with good animals, on some level.
VardaValar1: Just keeping the orcs down and spiders up their trees would be a big help.
ArPharazonV: And yes, it is a long way out of their territory, but they
are intent on chasing down the sorcerer, and will fall back to their
territory when it's over.
VardaValar1: Elves that went native to the land might have better communication with animals.
VardaValar1: They could track him by scent, it works. His would be distinctive.
ArPharazonV: Oh yes. We've already seen them on the clearing, though I
kept their identity half-shrouded. I wrote a post about that when we
were about to go through the Misty Mountains.
VardaValar1: Maybe we should let you guys get some sleep. Got a lot of plotting done. And nice tying of Helvy's loose end.
ArPharazonV: Yes. I've been sorta planning this since we last saw
Helvy. Figured it might make a good ending to his story, without having
to involve him with Auros any more than we've already done ;-)
ArPharazonV: And it'll make a nice climax in Angmar where I can close
the parts of both Calaron and Helvy, and focus on my one remaining
character (Calion) from then on.
ArPharazonV: And I like the growing/spreading of the uncorrupted
wolfpack. It's a bit of freedom and redemption for a potentially noble
race of animals.
Eonwe Valar: hehe
Eonwe Valar: *to the Auros/Helvy comment.
Menelvagor Valar: Oh, btw, may I interject for a second?
Eonwe Valar: Never :}
Menelvagor Valar: in that case, I'll just do it with my normal speed,
that way you won't get to see who the interjection giver was :-D
Eonwe Valar: :}
Menelvagor Valar: Anyways :-)
Eonwe Valar: You know I kid :}
Menelvagor Valar: I do :-)
Menelvagor Valar: I'm not sure everyone read the letter I wrote to the Guild a week or so back, so I'll repeat some of it :-)
Menelvagor Valar: Basically, it's all but decided that I'll be running
my fraternity (mixed gender, dunno what that's called) as part of a
team of 8, and basically I owe a lot of it to the Guild :-)
Menelvagor Valar: Way back in the day before the Millenium Bug wasn't
even an issue or a myth yet, the Valar Guild was my shelter in the
storm, my flame in the dark.
Menelvagor Valar: For that, and the people I've befriended then and since then I owe a huge debt of gratitude.
Menelvagor Valar: Since the people I remember most from those times are
still here (and on AIM) at this time, I figured I'd thank you as
personally as I can possibly make it at this time.
Menelvagor Valar: Thanks a gazillion! :-)
ArPharazonV: It almost seemed like a goodbye letter.
VardaValar1: Aye, it did sound like that.
Menelvagor Valar: Nah :-)
Menelvagor Valar: I'm not going anywhere.
Menelvagor Valar: Just a confirmation of a massive shift in interest.
Menelvagor Valar: Last couple years I've not been as active with the
Guild as I would have liked, and it doesn't seem likely that will
Menelvagor Valar: But most importantly, I remember where I was and where I am headed.
Menelvagor Valar: and I remember the people who were there for me when I needed them most.
Menelvagor Valar: and I also remember it's honorable to thank those who give to you, regardless of how small.
Menelvagor Valar: and what you have given me over the years is not small at all :-)
Menelvagor Valar: Ok, done with the interjection :-P
Menelvagor Valar: Now get back to your other stuff before I get all teary-eyed!
AriehnV: ok , then starry warior who twinkles so brightly , i shall retire and leave you to your growing seeds
Eonwe Valar: *puts away the onions he was cutting* :}
Menelvagor Valar: Thanks Eonwe, oh herald of smiley news :-)
ArPharazonV: Namarie, Arien :-) Did you have anything to add about the RP?
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well Arien :}
Menelvagor Valar: (and not so smiley news, but that's not the point right now)
Menelvagor Valar: Namarie!
AriehnV: Nah i ll go with the flow and you know Frali is more for the pracical pit like camp site ornaments
ArPharazonV: I'm pretty sure you were the one who gave us the runed blade in the first place, no?
AriehnV: practical type , grin
ArPharazonV: Unplanned though it was.
Menelvagor Valar: As long as you know that currently the flow is going the wrong way we intend to go! :-)
AriehnV: it was actually Estarion who pointed out the sword to me , grin
AriehnV: ,remember? | just found the runes on it and started the mess , grin
Eonwe Valar: Actually, Estarion created the sword, got it knocked away, Calion picked it up, tossed it to Frali, hehe.
AriehnV: *looks completely and utterly innocent*
Eonwe Valar: *Well, Menel created the sword, figuratively put it in Estarion's hands, etc.
ArPharazonV: Ah :-) Well, the mess started with the runes, yes!
Eonwe Valar: Aye, blame Arien for that :} ( I say that jokingly :})
AriehnV: hihi i know
AriehnV: be well :-)
Menelvagor Valar: I blame Varda for creating both Arien and myself!
AriehnV has left the room.
Eonwe Valar: :}
fladrifv has left the room.
ArPharazonV: saving and sending transcript