Valar Guild

October 2, 2011 Sunday Meeting

5pm EDT (GMT - 5)
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace

Back to News
Transcript work by
Ar-Pharazon and Varda.

Attending: (6)
    AriehnV, ArPharazonV, Eonwe Valar, fladrifv, GwaihirValar, VardaValar1 (presiding)

Meeting begins
    Glaurung's birthday
    Valar Guild 14th Anniversary
    Anniversary page
    State of Valar Gaming page
    Games Site Mass Update results
    Topic: What monsters did Tolkien put into Middle-earth? Not just his invention, but any monster used from any of his books.
    Marathon begins for holding the guild AIM chat room open from ths meeting through the next meeting.
ArPharazon-V (ArPharazonV) has entered the room.
VardaValar1 (VardaValar1) has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Phar :-)
ArPharazon-V: Aiya!
ArPharazon-V: Finished all my night elf rare artefacts this week, I'm now at 19/20 rare artefacts for the achievement, and when I finish the voodoo figurine I'll have my archeology achievement title :)
VardaValar1: Huzzah!
EonweValar (Eonwe Valar) has entered the room.
fladrifv has entered the room.
Gwaihir-Valar (GwaihirValar) has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Eonwe :-)
VardaValar1: Aiya Fladrif and Gwaihir :-)
EonweValar: Heya all.
iryenth has been invited.
Invitation result for buddy Iryenth : Iryenth is busy.
Gwaihir-Valar: Hullo
ArPharazon-V: Aiya folks!
mrmonkey2002blah has been invited.

VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Membership:
VardaValar1: Glaurung's birthday is was yesterday. :-)
ArPharazon-V: Congrats mr. Dragon!
VardaValar1: Does anyone have any membership news they would like to mention?
AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Arien :-)
AriehnV: aiya all :-)
AriehnV: dont tell me i missed the whole meeting again ^^
VardaValar1: We're in Membership news, if you'd like to share any?
VardaValar1: hehe - not this time!
AriehnV: *shakes head*
VardaValar1: We have our 14th Anniversary of the Valar Guild on the 4th, therefore...
VardaValar1: you have all just begun the annual one week AIM chat marathon!
ArPharazon-V: Yay!
VardaValar1: Thank you for your help. :-)
VardaValar1: We'll be trying to keep the chat room open from now through the next meeting. Good luck to us all!
VardaValar1: Enlist any member or guild-friend willing. And have fun actually chatting too!
VardaValar1: The planning for the 14th has begun.
VardaValar1: Anyone wanting to see what the latest plans are or who want to add more can use the forum thread
VardaValar1: Might be easier to remember it's under Community/Community General :-)
VardaValar1: It has a link to the Anniversary page which should be updating as we learn more, maybe from the thread even.
VardaValar1: Feel free to pop in and say yahooo! :-)
ArPharazon-V: BRB a few minutes
VardaValar1: okie dokie

VardaValar1: Web:
VardaValar1: Continuing from what was just said, the 14th Anniversary page can be reached from the Forum or the News and is at:
VardaValar1: We are surprisingly low on Tolkien Site goodies this year, but the one currently up is a doozy that rather makes up for that.
VardaValar1: The article on Galadriel by Irmo-Valar, which I hope is now formatted correctly.
VardaValar1: Does anyone have any comment they would like to make on the Anniversary?
EonweValar: I figure those celebrating the 14th Anniversary in WoW can get together at normal run time on Tuesday to shoot fireworks.
galdorandwe has been invited.
Invitation result for buddy galdorandwe : galdorandwe is busy.
VardaValar1: What is that normal time?
EonweValar: That would be 7pm Eastern time, 6pm Central. I have every intention of being there, so only something unforseen can keep me away.
VardaValar1: Very good :-)
VardaValar1: I may have a little problem with that as we also have the fireworks run in LotRO, starting at 8pm Eastern, 7pm Central, but I trust other WoW folk will show well. :-)
EonweValar: Once we've done the round of fireworks at all the capital cities (including Gilneas, since it's a place that we can't pass up going to) we can always go hit some place, if we have enough people.
VardaValar1: We also have another fireworks run in LotRO in the afternoon for the folks who can't come in the evening.
VardaValar1: The exact time will probably be set by Miriel-(V).
ArPharazon-V: back
VardaValar1: Welcome back, Phar :-)
VardaValar1: Anyone with free to play is certainly welcome to come to the fireworks run in LotRO with us. :-)
VardaValar1: We also hope to be passing around food, drink, mathoms, and probably play some music in LotRO. We will probably start from the kin house and let hunters port us to the main cities, supplied from the kin chests.
VardaValar1: Any suggestions or comments for the gaming part? You're all welcome to join in the festivities or do something wild in your chosen games.
VardaValar1: Oh, we're also dressing in party clothes in LotRO. :-)
VardaValar1: The WoW folks can put on wild outfits too, since they aren't in danger zones, if they want to.

VardaValar1: Gaming:
VardaValar1: Eonwe has worked hard on the Games Site Mass Update and now has his report. Go ahead, Eonwe. :-)
EonweValar: Thanks :}
EonweValar: After completing the Games Site Mass-Update, I can say with confidence we have 156 Full Members and Members of Honor in the Valar Guild.
EonweValar: Of those, 33 responded to the GSMU letter (a better turnout than last year), and another 35 had gaming info gleaned from the guild rosters in LotRO and WoW.
EonweValar: That brought the total up to 68, two of which answered they have no time for games right now. So, we have almost half of the guild's gaming accounted for this year right out the door.
EonweValar: LotRO remains the obvious preference of members, accounting for almost one-third of our gaming (53 members), and WoW, our second preference only had 19 professing to play. So yeah, it's pretty clear where most of our members are :}
EonweValar: Most of our active ones, anyway :}
VardaValar1: :-)
EonweValar: I also remind all members they can scout for new members if they find themselves needing some friend to game with in their respective game, and Maiar and Valar can also test. Anyone rusty on our Rules and Code of Conduct can review those before doing so as they think necessary.
VardaValar1: So 53 of our 66 active gamers are in LotRO. Thank you. :-)
ArPharazon-V: Dare to be different >.>
EonweValar: These numbers and more can be found in the annual State of Valar Gaming report, which I sent to Varda and she has put up on the News:
VardaValar1: Quick way to scout is: is this a person you want to be around for the next 20 years and let meet your friends and kids? Did the person actually read LotR? If yes to both, probably a winner. :-)
EonweValar: This concludes my report.
VardaValar1: Give the person the website and friend channel, drag in a tester if possible.
VardaValar1: Thank you, Eonwe. That was an enormous amount of time and well done. :-)
EonweValar: *Bow*

VardaValar1: In the past week, has anyone been playing any non-WoW and non-LotRO games?
ArPharazon-V: Some flashgames as always, some Starcraft II 4v4. Still not  promoted to silver league yet.
VardaValar1: But next week... :-)
VardaValar1: Flad? Gwai?

VardaValar1: WoW:
VardaValar1: Eonwe, go ahead.
EonweValar: Thanks.
EonweValar: First, I've put up some of our victories and guild raid credit runs on the Lothar Events section of the Games Site. They are victories where were grabbed some screen shots: Our Lich King Kil, Yogg Saron 0 Keepers/Algalon, and Sunwell/Black Temple guild credit.
EonweValar: I'm considering whether to go back and include mentions of some of the runs we got guild credit but not a screenshot, i.e., our Caverns of Time: Hyjal run.
VardaValar1: mmm pictures :-)
EonweValar: Of course I would've preferred having a screenshot for all of them, but circumstances collaborated against getting one in some cases :}
EonweValar: So if you want to see the victors on Lothar standing alongside the corpse of their foe, you can see them on the Games Site :}
EonweValar: In general WoW news, there's more stuff to look at for 4.3:
EonweValar: Explanation of 4.3 Balance Changes, Part 1:
EonweValar: Priest Tier 13 and Visual Retrospective 4.3 Patch Preview - Fangs of the Father Raid Finder Coming in Patch 4.3
EonweValar: OK, that copy/paste wasn't quite as good as I expected. The divisor between those last two links is between "Father" and "Raid"
Gwaihir-Valar: Sry was tabbed to a diff window there, no aside from just more and more of everything nothing special from me. ;-)
ArPharazon-V: Probably between Retrospective and 4.3 as well. [note: repaired in the transcript]
EonweValar: Aye, if that one overlaps, those are separate links as well.
EonweValar: Also of note is that Guilds are able to oust inactive leaders coming in 4.3.
ArPharazon-V: Good to know, if something ever happens to me ;)
EonweValar: If a guild leader doesn't show for 30 days, any of the officers on the level right below him can assume leadership if they so choose. Fortunately you all will never have to worry about me going inactive :}
VardaValar1: Just have to worry if it takes that long to replace a burned out computer.
ArPharazon-V: Hmm. The only ones right below me are my alts. What about the level below that if nobody in the first two ranks is active?
EonweValar: I didn't see anything on that.
EonweValar: Pardon..
EonweValar: " To determine eligibility, the game will look for the highest ranked character in the guild that's logged on in the past week, and any guild member from that rank will be able to request guild leadership simply by clicking on the notification."
ArPharazon-V: Oh, great.

EonweValar: OK, time for the Lothar reports :}
EonweValar: Sunday:
EonweValar: Attending: Eonwe, Elwing, Bilbo, Varda, Fangorn, Nob, Arien
We ran Molten Core, millimetering our rep that much closer to Exalted with the Hydraxian Waterlords. Then we were into Hyjal, blasting through 9k rep to get Eonwe to Exalted with the Scale of the Sands and gaining that credit for the guild rep achievements.
After this, we called it a night.
EonweValar: Friday: Only Elwing and I were on, so not having enough to do anything, we did not have a run that night.
EonweValar: Tuesday night, however, Elwing, Eowyn, and Eonwe went into Ahn'Qiraj 40, where we successfully 3-manned the entire instance and got Eonwe Exalted with the Brood of Nozdormu.
EonweValar: Tonight, our hope is to get into Ruby Sanctum, win the fight, then give Trial of the Crusader a go.
EonweValar: Assuming we have enough to make this happen.
ArPharazon-V: Is that place easy enough to 1-2-man now? I want some pieces for transmogrification.
ArPharazon-V: AQ40, that is.
EonweValar: There are a couple of tough fights still, most notably Twin Emperors for obvious reasons.
EonweValar: I found Prince Huhuran tough soloing a few days earlier, because she has a silence and a stun.
EonweValar: *Princess
ArPharazon-V: Ah yes.
EonweValar: The giant slime boss obviously is one to be skipped.
EonweValar: Otherwise, if you can deal with those two fights, you can deal with the entire raid.
EonweValar: (For those who don't know the Twin Emperors fight, you have to keep them apart or they heal eachother).
ArPharazon-V: If you're really good you can outdps the healing.
ArPharazon-V: But that's quite hard.
EonweValar: I'm not sure a single person can do that though.
ArPharazon-V: 6k heals, I believe. Assuming they throw that on each other you're looking at at least 12k dps. It's doable, but not sure if in tankmode.
EonweValar: With 10 or less I generally find it's easier to just keep them apart.
ArPharazon-V: I know a hunter did it by putting his pet on the other side.
EonweValar: That would be one way to do it, hehe.
VardaValar1: Stay, pet. Stay. No, don't chase the little thingys...
EonweValar: I'd be interested to know how his pet dealt with the physical immune one, but I don't want to take up too much Meeting time :}
ArPharazon-V: Not sure how that was done.
EonweValar: Anyway, my report is done.
VardaValar1: Thank you, Eonwe. :-)
VardaValar1: We have side windows. I have several open, hehe.

VardaValar1: LotRO:
VardaValar1: The whole place has been crazy since the Rise of Isengard expansion. Everyone's gaming their hearts out. The PvMP'ers have even come out of the Ettenmoors to the main game.
ArPharazon-V: players... versus... what?
VardaValar1: We're trying to see all the amazing new things. Yesterday Pippin spotted the Tower of Orthanc far on the horizon.
EonweValar: Monster Players. It's the PvP of LotRO.
ArPharazon-V: ah
VardaValar1: Sorry, Players versus Monster Players.
VardaValar1: In special areas, rather like WoW Battlegrounds but huge, the Free Peoples battle Monsters: orcs, wargs, spiders that are other players.
VardaValar1: This last week, the Council of Mahanaxar (not just Eonwe and me, hehe) voted and installed three new helping officers called "Warlords" in LotRO.
VardaValar1: They aid with inviting alts, helping folks with crafts and bottlenecked quests, and helping make sure we have quests/events/instances handled.
VardaValar1: Since these three were doing all this already, we gave them tools to do it more easily, such as kin mail, kin message of the day, and the ability to invite.
VardaValar1: They are Galdor, Miriel, and Pippin.
ArPharazon-V: *applauds*
VardaValar1: Monday is still open, but Tuesday we plan the Anniversary event, and Wednesday the new 6-man Culling Pit.
VardaValar1: This last week we were all over, mostly having to solo, but in spots we could group up.
VardaValar1: Some of us did the Culling Pit already so we can help others Wednesday.
VardaValar1: We've seen many folks coming in who haven't been back in a while, great fun. :-)
AriehnV: Oh btw .. Shagbashz got his first infamy pints ^^
AriehnV: points even sorry not pints
VardaValar1: Shagbashz is your monster?
AriehnV: *nods*
VardaValar1: Grats then. :-)
VardaValar1: What type?
AriehnV: what you call them , big melee
ArPharazon-V: Orcs? ;)   [note: reaver]
AriehnV: hehe sort of orc
VardaValar1: Heh, ok. *tries not to target Shagbashz*
AriehnV: :-)
VardaValar1: Actually kind of dangerous to tell your name, can make your buddies hunt you down especially hard. :-)
Gwaihir-Valar: Wife and I are going for dinner, I'll leave myself in here to hold things open for everyone at least as long as my internet holds ;-) Take care folks.
VardaValar1: Namarie!
AriehnV: Enjoy and have a very nice evening :-)
VardaValar1: Business meeting is done.
EonweValar: Take care Gwaihir.
ArPharazon-V: Namarie!

VardaValar1: Next up is Tolkien.
VardaValar1: Thanks Gwaihir!
VardaValar1: Much appreciated. Going to be tough with this few holding the chat open all week. :-)
VardaValar1: For fun, what monsters did Tolkien put into Middle-earth? Not saying just his invention, but any monster used.
VardaValar1: This can be from any book. :-)
AriehnV: Orcs, goblins, spiders , wargs, wolves ,
ArPharazon-V: Orcs, Balrogs, Goblins, Dragons, Trolls.
ArPharazon-V: the Watcher in the waer
ArPharazon-V: *water
AriehnV: wights
ArPharazon-V: wraiths
ArPharazon-V: wraiths on wings!
AriehnV: yes the naz
AriehnV: gul
VardaValar1: Wights
ArPharazon-V: and their flying mounts too
VardaValar1: Fell beasts, aye.
VardaValar1: Giants
ArPharazon-V: Some undead oathbreakers
VardaValar1: Stretching a bit, Fastitocalon the giant turtle.
ArPharazon-V: And did the beasts who carried the big ram to crush Minas Tirith's gate have a name?
AriehnV: Mumakin
ArPharazon-V: Well, those too, but they're not the ones I mentioned.
VardaValar1: Mumakil? Oliphaunts? Don't think they did the ram. I was thinking it was just orcs. Now I have to look it up! hehehe
VardaValar1: I remember the ram was Grond, named after the mace of Morgoth.
ArPharazon-V: They were used in the movie as well, some large rhino-like creatures, and I thought they said they came from the book.
fladrifv has left the room.
fladrifv has entered the room.
ArPharazon-V: Hmm. My return of the king just says "Great beasts drew it, orcs surrounded it, and behind walked mountain-trolls to wield it."
VardaValar1: Great beasts? Not terribly specific, is it.
ArPharazon-V: and "great beast" is how they're referred to later on the page as well
ArPharazon-V: Near the end of the chapter "The siege of Gondor".
ArPharazon-V: Not very specific, no. But I don't think they'd be named such if they were Mumakil.
ArPharazon-V: Let's see, what other monsters?
ArPharazon-V: Tevildo and his army of large cats...
ArPharazon-V: I believe Gothmog was the son of an ogress in one version.
VardaValar1: Ah hah, look a bit earlier for great beasts maybe.
fladrifv has left the room.
fladrifv has entered the room.
VardaValar1: "There came great beasts, like moving houses in the red and fitful light, the mumakil of the Harad..."
VardaValar1: It's right after Pippin finds Gandalf, in the scene change.
ArPharazon-V: Hmm. I doubt they are the same. Why would they name them in one sentence and then later still refer a select group as just "great beasts"?
ArPharazon-V: *refer to
VardaValar1: Already defined at the start could be a good reason.
EonweValar: I tend to think there would be a reference of some sort back to the definition in that case.
ArPharazon-V: Then I expect they should have been called Mumakil lately. "Great beasts" is simply the descriptive in this case, and after identification one would not expect it to be used for the same creatures who are unnamed at the later time.
VardaValar1: That's a good question.
ArPharazon-V: *lately -> later
VardaValar1: To me it's like when an acronym has to be defined at the beginning but then afterwards only the acronym is used.
ArPharazon-V: I don't see it as the same thing. Acronyms are used later because they are easier expressed than the whole term. That is not the case here.
VardaValar1: Just my best guess. But I mean that is a similar idea, where a term is identified at the beginning, then used later. It's backwards, aye.
VardaValar1: Maybe its to make it obvious that they are living things?
VardaValar1: In this case it like a reverse, where the definition is used instead of the term, heh.
VardaValar1: *it's
VardaValar1: If they aren't mumakil, then I see no other clue.
VardaValar1: Interesting bit you pointed out there.
ArPharazon-V: It's quite weird, yes. I'm inclined, as were the movie-makers, apparently, to take the reappearance of "great beasts" (not even *the* great beasts, if they were referring to an earlier described animal), as a new creature alltogether.
ArPharazon-V: Also, see the entry in
VardaValar1: They noticed the same thing I did, that great beasts and mumakil are the same thing in the preceding paragraph.
ArPharazon-V: Yes. But the alternative still stands.
ArPharazon-V: Neither can be excluded easily, and I find the equation with mumakil less likely myself.
VardaValar1: No argument. Just the best clue that I can see. Nothing absolutely definite, letting movie makers and artists go nuts with a new monster. :-)
ArPharazon-V: Indeed!
VardaValar1: It's so close together though that it looks suspicious.
ArPharazon-V: What I *can* imagine is that Tolkien wrote the later scene first, then added the mumakils and their name, and the whole confusion is simply a literary oversight.
ArPharazon-V: In other words, he forgot to change it.
ArPharazon-V: And because of the ambiguity, it escaped later editing.
VardaValar1: He is also big on hints, on purpose, accordiing the Letters. So it's hard to tell.
VardaValar1: Could be either. No way to know.
VardaValar1: We're listing monsters here. Do white wolves attacking the Shire count as different? :-)
VardaValar1: You mentioned wolves and wargs already.
ArPharazon-V: If wolves were mentioned already, I doubt they're different, but we might as well name them.
AriehnV: aye just made a difference between wolves and wargs
ArPharazon-V: For that matter, though spiders were already mentioned, we might just name Shelob and Ungoliant as well.
EonweValar: I don't know. I don't think it was mumakil. Sure he could've got mumakil from the Haradrim, but I imagine he would've used something else to heighten the shock-and-awe effect of his armies.
VardaValar1: Mumakil did have a lot of shock and awe effect, but aye, it could be a different set of "great beasts". Just awfully close together there.
VardaValar1: Fun, the ambiguity of it, lets us play with it. :-)

VardaValar1: Question on the rp.
VardaValar1: We're arriving at Rivendell. Should we start a new thread now?

VardaValar1: And that's a neat site, Phar. Looking at it now.
VardaValar1: Maybe we should look over our own animal page and see if we can spruce it up a bit.
ArPharazon-V: :)
VardaValar1: That's an index style of page.
VardaValar1: The mumakil article shows them as pulling siege engines, but not as handling Grond. :-)
ArPharazon-V: Werewolves... where did we find werewolves?
ArPharazon-V: Ah, Silmarillion, right.
VardaValar1: Attacking Huan and Finrod
VardaValar1: Aye, the animals page could use some articles. Some names have none, like Mirkwood spiders
VardaValar1: White wolves
VardaValar1: Glad this came up. Gives some ideas. :-)
VardaValar1: Do you prefer the page to have it all in that one long line like the Tuckborough site?
ArPharazon-V: No, this works. Less loading time per page, I assume.
VardaValar1: No boars on the page.
VardaValar1: No thrush or raven articles.
VardaValar1: Sooo, someone feel like making a small article for the animal section? :-)
VardaValar1: I take it back. The Boar of Everholt is mentioned, says see Folca
AriehnV: Did the Kine of Araw get a mention?
VardaValar1: I found it under Orome [note: "it" being the Kine of Araw, Araw is a name of Orome]
VardaValar1: Needs to get a link into the animal page like Folca, if no separate article.

VardaValar1: VardaValar1: Question on the rp.
VardaValar1: We're arriving at Rivendell. Should we start a new thread now?
EonweValar: I think our wrap-up posts should occur at this time, yes.
EonweValar: I think this brings to an end the "Scouting Ahead" arc and would suggest a brand new string of threads.
VardaValar1: Should we first all give our impressions riding in, or is this enough? The other folk could add theirs in the new thread, maybe.
EonweValar: I intend to make a post to this current thread.
VardaValar1: Ok, slight re-do on the Animals page, adding in the reference to the Kine of Araw, since it has no separate article.
VardaValar1: ok, sounds good.
ArPharazon-V (ArPharazonV) has left the room.
ArPharazon-V (ArPharazonV) has entered the room.
ArPharazon-V: Sorry, pc crashed. I couldn't save anything.
VardaValar1: o oh
EonweValar: Unlike some stories, I don't intend to leave Auros' on a cliffhanger between seasons, hehe.

ArPharazon-V: Last I heard we were talking about the animals page on our website. What did I miss?
VardaValar1: Please send in your meeting notes folks to my email
VardaValar1: Did you see the part where I changed the page slightly to show where the Kine of Araw are mentioned?
ArPharazon-V: No.
ArPharazon-V: I don't suppose you can copy the chat to an IM?
VardaValar1: Saved ut,
VardaValar1: phone
ArPharazon-V: Yes, but I'd like to know what I've missed. How did we get to the RP?
EonweValar: Trying to send what you missed via IM, AIM is not cooperating.
VardaValar1: I copied on Notepad
VardaValar1: To me, you left and entered with no time where we talked between. Not sure where to start.
ArPharazon-V: Eonwe sent me some. Last line I read was "VardaValar1 (6:04:07 PM): Sooo, someone feel like making a small article for the animal section? :-) "
VardaValar1: but in the rp, we're finishing up impressions as we see Rivendell and then starting a new thread.
VardaValar1: ok
VardaValar1: scared you off. ;-)
ArPharazon-V: Heh, maybe.
ArPharazon-V: And I'm caught up now.
VardaValar1: We could call it now and go into Aftermeeting. We're about 25 minutes over. :-)
EonweValar: As a reminder, I intend only to keep the board for the current story on the front board under Tolkien. The others, I've been planning to shift into an "archive" board for the RP.
EonweValar: This archive board will still be found under "Tolkien," and the finished chapters will be sub-boards inside that board.
VardaValar1: Be very careful doing that. After shifting, the info is actually still where it was and if the old linky thing is removed, it all disappears. I wiped out a lot of very nice stuff that way.
ArPharazon-V: Make careful backups at the least.
EonweValar: Which reminds me about something else.
EonweValar: I'm going to try and make a last effort to save the "Other Authors" and "Tips and Suggestions" boards from the Void this week, so if you find you can't access the Forum, don't panic, just come in here and ask me what's up.
AriehnV: mmh
VardaValar1: Thank you.
VardaValar1: *swings gavel*
VardaValar1: *teeny thud*

VardaValar1: The Chat Marathon begins!
AriehnV: *flares and sets gavel on fire*
VardaValar1: well, continues.
VardaValar1: Hmm, need a new gavel. Problem with all this fission around.
AriehnV: pfft Auros can make you a Mithril one
AriehnV: Mithril doesnt burn
VardaValar1: Eonwe, how about a new one?
VardaValar1: He may send me to Aule.
EonweValar: I would send you to Aulë, hehe.
ArPharazon-V: A new gavel every 14 years? We'll have tons of them before long!
VardaValar1: hehe
VardaValar1: 6 in WoW. I need to head over there.
ArPharazon-V: Good luck!
EonweValar: 5 in WoW. You'll be #6.
VardaValar1: heh, ok.