November 6, 2011 Sunday Meeting
5pm EDT (GMT - 5)
Back to News
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
Transcript work by Ar-Pharazon and Varda.
ArPharazonV, Eonwe Valar, fladrifv (attempted), Galdor-(V)/galdorandwe,
Daylight Savings Time ended in the Americas
Tolkien Site: Story "Hunger"
War in the North
The storyline evolved through the notes we see in HoME and into the Sil
where it had to stop despite later notes. But we can still consider the
later notes such as on Narn.
RP: Need new title for this sequel to "Scouting Ahead"
WoW instance runs successful.
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
karakedi25 has entered the room.
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: aiya, please pardon afk short bit.
AriehnV: aiya there
VardaValar1: I apologize for the delay. It was work-related.
VardaValar1: ok, that's all I see on invited now. : )
ArPharazonV: Aiya folks!
VardaValar1: Thanks for coming here on your own, folks. It's a huge help!
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya.
VardaValar1: Aiya Arien, Ar-Pharazon, Eonwe, and Indis. :-)
ArPharazonV: I rebooted my pc before the meeting, hopefully it won't disconnect
VardaValar1: Good luck, Phar!
ArPharazonV: Also replugged every cable between here and the router
VardaValar1: Busy guy. Hope it works!
ArPharazonV: Can only hope!
VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Daylight Savings Time is finally over the US, so we should be back together as usual now.
ArPharazonV: Same normal time for me this week.
VardaValar1: Alatar, who provides most of our server space and domain name, had a birthday on Nov. 1. Yay!
Eonwe Valar: Happy Birthday to Alatar :}
VardaValar1: Fangorn's vacation will be traveling and I'll be with him,
coming up now looks like Wednesday. They keep moving times around.
Should be back very late Friday.
karakedi25: only 3 days?
VardaValar1: That's the traveling part where we have to rent a car.
VardaValar1: The vacation itself is a week, but part of that is spent driving halfway across Texas to get home.
karakedi25: visiting family?
VardaValar1: That was an awful sentence, pardon. The day he comes home for vacation is mostly spent driving home.
karakedi25: much clearer
VardaValar1: Yes. He's lost one parent and we want to visit the other while we can, and some brothers.
ArPharazonV: Times like that, you realize how important your family is.
VardaValar1: I have a clue, since just my brother is left on my side. So we're taking the time we have.
VardaValar1: Any other membership news?
karakedi25: that's why I'll go to California for Thanksgiving--93 year old father
VardaValar1: Good reason. And he can give you hope for longevity being 93!
karakedi25: and still has his wits, which is even more hopeful
VardaValar1: Family's mostly coming to my house for Thanksgiving.
karakedi25: and substantial wits they are
VardaValar1: Any further news?
VardaValar1: Birthdays? Bar mitzvahs? Other fun? :-)
ArPharazonV: Hospital visit last week, if that counts.
ArPharazonV: They're putting me on light therapy for my skin, so need to go to hospital twice a week for two months.
VardaValar1: News, even if not that much fun, aye.
ArPharazonV: Yay timesink!
ArPharazonV: At least it'll give me time to catch up on my reading, with bustravel and waiting times etc.
VardaValar1: Not enough timesinks in our lives. ;-)
VardaValar1: Tolkien Site:
VardaValar1: One new story up from Mirabella-(V):
ArPharazonV: Got some web/tolkien news, tell me in what section you want it
VardaValar1: "Hunger", intended for Halloween actually.
VardaValar1: That's all the Web news from this end, so go ahead Phar.
ArPharazonV: The Hobbit movie's fourth production video went up this week, on Peter Jackson's facebook page, at least.
ArPharazonV: Mostly focusing on the 3D aspect of the movies, how it
works, how it's used to tell the story, etc, but you can also see
scenes you might recognise :-)
ArPharazonV: let me find a link
ArPharazonV: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150451523596807 this should work
ArPharazonV: Don't need to be logged in for it, since I'm not :-)
ArPharazonV: ..That's it from me.
VardaValar1: Thanks Phar! Looks interesting, and I'll be watching first chance. :-)
VardaValar1: Other games, as in non-WoW and non-LotRO. Gwaihir sent some info to Eonwe so I'll let Eonwe tell it. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Thanks.
ArPharazonV: Few flashgames, and at last a SCII game again, but didn't do much :-)
Eonwe Valar: Gwaihir sent in a link to a review he wrote on the newest LotR-related console game: War in the North
Eonwe Valar: Unfortunately, it's not on our Games Site :}
Eonwe Valar: http://www.tgr-net.com/2011/11/lord-of-the-rings-war-in-the-north-ps3/
Eonwe Valar: That's it from me on this topic. I'll let Gwaihir's review speak for itself :}
Eonwe Valar: Varda must've been called away from the keyboard, so I'll pick up till she gets back.
AriehnV: ((btw i like that story , it gives me the creeps ^^ certainly fits Halloween))
Eonwe Valar: Any other non-WoW, non-LotRO news?
VardaValar1: Sorry, I was away indeed. Thanks for handling things.
VardaValar1: BroodWar for Sauron, Fangorn and myself.
Eonwe Valar: NP. Looks like you can pick up where you left off :}
VardaValar1: StarCraft 2 for Bilbo and Sauron.
galdorandwe has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Anyone else?
AriehnV: Yo Galdor :-)
AriehnV: Eve as usual
VardaValar1: Cool, thought you dropped that.
VardaValar1: Aiya Galdor. :0
AriehnV: had stopped it for about 2 months but went back to it
AriehnV: i just playing very casual as it is usually just two or three
missions at the most before i am back to wow hehe, or just one or two
before or something like that :-)
VardaValar1: Any other non-WoW, non-LotRO gaming?
VardaValar1: (You're welcome in LotRO too, Arien. *shameless plug*)
AriehnV: oh iam sometimes ^^
karakedi25: I've seen you there a fair amount.
VardaValar1: Moving to WoW
VardaValar1: Eonwe, all yours.
Eonwe Valar: Thanks.
Eonwe Valar: First, of note might be a Dev post on why they may or may not "squish" item stats/levels with the next expansion.
AriehnV: whats *squishing"?
Eonwe Valar: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/3885585/Dev_Watercooler_-_The_Great_Item_Squish_or_Not_ of_Pandaria-11_4_2011#blog
Eonwe Valar: Moving all the items to be closer statwise.
fladrifv has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Compression of stats to let the numbers not go out of control in further expansions.
VardaValar1: A variant of the word squashing.
Eonwe Valar: squishing, like flattening.
Eonwe Valar: squeezing it together.
fladrifv has left the room.
ArPharazonV: It would make it easier on the UI graphics and for combat calculations by the game.
Eonwe Valar: That's one of the arguments for, aye.
Eonwe Valar: I just thought that might be of interest to the WoW community.
Eonwe Valar: On to the Lothar runs.
Eonwe Valar: Sunday Run:
Eonwe Valar: Attending: Eonwė, Fangorn, BIlbo, Sauron, Elwing, Varda, Arien.
Eonwe Valar: (and Eowyn later)
Eonwe Valar: First, we seven broke up into groups and got 7 HH runs in real quick for guild exp. [Headless Horseman]
Eonwe Valar: After that, Arien had to call it a night and the six of us went into Molten Core to clear that out for rep.
Eonwe Valar: As the capstone for the night, we decided to give the
first boss in ICC a go. Eowyn came on in time to join us, and after a
couple of tries we got him down.
Eonwe Valar: We decided to end it there on a high note.
Eonwe Valar: Friday Run: Unfortunately, not enough showed to run anything.
VardaValar1: It's always good seeing Eowyn able to sit up to the computer again. She's back to working on web design too. : )
Eonwe Valar: Eonwe, Elwing, and Eowyn were on a different parts of the night, though, sometimes overlapping.
AriehnV: hydrocarbine .. contamination .. hmm interesting .. i start to like this ghostcrawler ..
Eonwe Valar: That's it for my report.
AriehnV: sunday runs you mean ^^ , that is a few horsemen before he made way to Catherine
Eonwe Valar: hmm?
AriehnV: it was several horseman runs if i remember right
AriehnV: with two guild groups competing at the same time for guild achievement
Eonwe Valar: We ran 7 total between us.
AriehnV: er guild challenge
Eonwe Valar: Because only 7 count for the guild challenge every week.
AriehnV: anyway i managed to get both dps and healer ring
karakedi25: what do you get for the guild challenge?
Eonwe Valar: Guild experience and gold into the guild bank.
ArPharazonV: Gold, achievements, stuff...
ArPharazonV: guild xp too, yeah
Eonwe Valar: and achievements, aye.
VardaValar1: When the guild goes up a rank, it gets a perk for all
members generally. Armor stat improvement, faster exp, some nice things.
karakedi25: interesting idea for encouraging kins/guilds to work together
fladrifv has left the room.
karakedi25: members, that is
VardaValar1: Aye. People quit jumping between guilds so much, since they had to start over on kin rep.
VardaValar1: Helped stabilize WoW guilds.
ArPharazonV: When I checked today we were at 100% to lvl 13 in my European guild, with not much xp to go.
Eonwe Valar: Or at least make people think more about joining or leaving a guild before they started guild hopping, hehe.
fladrifv has left the room.
ArPharazonV: Looks like Flad has problems getting in.
VardaValar1: Aye, Phar
VardaValar1: On to LotRO:
ArPharazonV: I told him to restart AIM but doesn't seem to work very well.
VardaValar1: We're just now starting to get back to doing Monday and
Wednesday instance runs again after the expansion. Right now these are
handicapped for lack of level 75 healers showing up at those times.
VardaValar1: I'm trying to remedy that by working up my min, but have been slow. My apologies.
VardaValar1: Monday we had two 3-man teams that ran School and Library:
VardaValar1: Gildor, Indis, and Melkor in one team, and the super fast dps team of Galdor, Nimrodel, and Pippin in the other.
VardaValar1: Wednesday we had a three man School and Library by Galdor, Nimrodel, and Pippin. : )
galdorandwe: Nim and I have been running that quite consistently with
Gildor, but Pippen wanted to run with us. We have both runs down to
about 45 minutes total at lvl 75. We can finish the school in 15, but
you need to clear the whole Library to get the S4M's :-)
galdorandwe: Varda, any comments about the Raids?
VardaValar1: Aye, that was next on my report.
VardaValar1: Saturday is when we have the most show up and ready to run. This last Saturday,
fladrifv has left the room.
VardaValar1: We had 12-man runs for Amon Sul,
which had a different make-up of players than last time and didn't go
as well. An alt was brought instead of a main because he just wanted
to, as we do allow. We'll get it figured out. :-)
VardaValar1: We were successful with the other 12-mans: Tuckborough, and Breaking the Necromancer's Gate.
VardaValar1: Afterwards we had three-mans:
VardaValar1: School and Library for Hurin, Irmo, and Varda completed.
ArPharazonV: Well, Fladrif says Aiya, but he can't get in. Restarting AIM didn't help.
VardaValar1: School completed by Galdor, Gildor, and Nimrodel.
VardaValar1: Aiya to Fladrif!
karakedi25: You didn't have a Lore-master in the Amon Sul run *snicker*
VardaValar1: Then duos completed on Breaking the Necromancer's Gate, Assautl on the Ringwraith's Lair.
galdorandwe: We've been very fortunate to have such raid savvy people
like Ulmo, Idis, Irmo, Maha and Varda. It makes it a lot simpler to
achieve success when people who are experienced at raiding are in the
galdorandwe: I've been informed I made an error in my last post...Idis should read Indis.
Eonwe Valar: New homework assignment: Find the meaning of "Idis" in Elvish for next week :}
VardaValar1: uh oh!
galdorandwe: Ida or Ita - to sparkle
galdorandwe: is from isil - moon or sheen
ArPharazonV: So Idis would be.. like.. Sparkler?
VardaValar1: All shiny!
VardaValar1: On to Tolkien!
VardaValar1: Galdor had some interesting side comments.
VardaValar1: He has been reading HoME and then went back to a re-read of the Silmarillion.
VardaValar1: galdorandwe: On another note...I finished rereading the
Silmarillion recently. I'm almost done with the Fall of Numenor now
too. After reading all the other books about those stories, it's
amazing how much was left out of the Silmarillion in terms of details.
Tolkien actually says, "..but that's in another book..." or something
like that, numerous times in the Silmarillion.
ArPharazonV: But that's a story.. for another time.
karakedi25: Some of that may be Christopher's editing, too.
VardaValar1: The flavor of the Silmarillion showed a real difference.
karakedi25: There was a lot that was either missing or contradictory in Tolkien's notes.
VardaValar1: The Valar were changed to be more dignified, good. Dropped their having children. And that's just at the beginning.
VardaValar1: Christopher did the Sil and the HoME editiing, aye.
karakedi25: So we can't be sure how much was father, and how much son, for some of those comments.
VardaValar1: It's the development from the early notes to the later that is interesting here. How it evolved.
ArPharazonV: Christopher did have to pick and choose from all sorts of
different versions, hoping to catch the most recent coherent one. And
even then he might bring out a book and later still find a version that
was later, which invalidates even part of the Sil :-)
ArPharazonV: I do believe the version of the Narn in UT was supposed to be later than the Sil?
VardaValar1: I thought the evolving to the Sil story was interesting. Had to pick a canon spot to stop so we wouldn'
VardaValar1: t drown in second guessing.
Eonwe Valar: We did, aye :}
Eonwe Valar: As far as the Narn in UT, I'm a bit rusty on my UT, so can't recall if it's newer or older than the Sil version.
ArPharazonV: If I recall right, it was a bit later than the Sil
version, and should've been the Sil version, but Christopher didn't
find it in time, or didn't realize in time what its place was,or
something like that.
ArPharazonV: Well, it's natural to make mistakes :-)
Eonwe Valar: hehe, aye.
karakedi25: Any further thoughts on continuing the RP?
Eonwe Valar: In reference to the original comment about it "being in
another book," I think that's fairly consistent with J.R.R. Tolkien's
goal, whether it was himself or Chris that put it in.
Eonwe Valar: Before moving to a new topic, we should be sure everyone
has said everything they wish to say on this one, keep the chat from
getting too confusing, hehe.
ArPharazonV: Oh yes, it was never meant to be completely
self-contained. Supposedly representing a large history or mythology,
he wanted to give the idea that his books were only a fraction of the
knowledge available *somewhere*.
ArPharazonV: That's why it's also so fitting that many stories have different versions :-)
Eonwe Valar: Aye :}
karakedi25: Selected excerpts from the lore of the Elves.
Eonwe Valar: Somewhere in HoME there's also a comment or two about some of it being Elf lore misremembered by Men.
karakedi25: and the Elves probably got a good bit of the earlier material wrong too
Eonwe Valar: So there's some interesting developments that took place
in the lore, and it is a shame J.R.R. himself didn't get to lay it out
in a published work.
ArPharazonV: Makes for interesting speculation, you can take a story
and try to think what the original, "true" version was, and how it got
misremembered into the version we know today :-)
Eonwe Valar: Well, I'd say the first-hand Elven knowledge would be
correct. For anything before the Elves came, they probably didn't
account for every detail of prior existence to them.
Eonwe Valar: "They" in that above sentence should be "the Valar"
Eonwe Valar: the secodn half of that second sentence.
karakedi25: I was thinking of the material prior to Elves arriving in Valinor
Eonwe Valar: I remember something vaguely about the Ainulindallė being
not *necessarily* a literal Music, but potentially an explanation of
the creation that would be understandable to the Elves.
Eonwe Valar: That comment would of course be buried somewhere in HoME as well, hehe.
ArPharazonV: Could have been some sort of spiritually based lightshow
with each of the Ainur putting in their own themes and ideas, adding to
each other's stories.
Eonwe Valar: The Elves would be capable of making judgements about existence based on observation of the matural world, however.
Eonwe Valar: *natural world
Eonwe Valar: I kind of imagine the Noldor "discovering" jewels in the earth, and Aulė going "finally!" :}
ArPharazonV: "Great, you found the easter egg!"
Eonwe Valar: Aye :}
Eonwe Valar: Any other comments on this topic?
ArPharazonV: You have another topic?
karakedi25: I asked earlier about the continuation of the RP.
Eonwe Valar: Not really, but it's coming up on Lothar run time, and if
we have nothing further I thought we'd go ahead and give a few minutes
to RP thought beofer then. Plus I don't want to leave us sitting quietly during Tolkien chat for no good reason :}
Eonwe Valar: *beofer = before
karakedi25: We can defer it if you are about to leave for the game.
Eonwe Valar: We can spend a few minutes on it. We don't have everyone
here, and I don't think we need to go into the RP too deeply right now.
Mostly what we need is to come up with a new name.
Eonwe Valar: When we have the name for the new arc, I'll set up the
board and put a discussion thread in there. We can start looking at
further considerations at that point, but I wanted to give everyone a
chance to breathe and reflect before the next part as well.
ArPharazonV: Scouting Up North!
karakedi25: Perhaps something as simple as "Sorcery in the North"
karakedi25: Putting it on the forum is a good idea.
AriehnV: I like Scouting up North
Eonwe Valar: We're not so much focusing on Recon at this point though.
ArPharazonV: Reconning Ahead!
AriehnV: The Next Leg?
karakedi25: Angmar Ho! ?
ArPharazonV: I think I mentioned Scouting Ahead II: Revenge of the Scout a few meetings ago? :-)
Eonwe Valar: I kinda like something similar to "Sorcery in the North"
AriehnV: Angmar Ho! gets my vote hehe
karakedi25: It was meant to be a bit silly.
ArPharazonV: To Angmar and beyond!
AriehnV: Mysteries in the North?
Eonwe Valar: Or "Scouting Ahead 2: The Search for More Money"> We
can have Scouting Ahead toys, Scouting ahead Breakfast Cereals,
Scouting Ahead lunchboxes, hehe.
ArPharazonV: action figures?
AriehnV: Super Auron
AriehnV: Super Auros
AriehnV: (not that he is bloated enough already, grin)
Eonwe Valar: I think something referencing "North" is tending to be a winning scneario in the suggested names, personally.
Eonwe Valar: hehe
Eonwe Valar: *scenario
ArPharazonV: Northern Winter or something?
Eonwe Valar: Both "Sorcery etc." and "Mystery etc." sound pretty good.
ArPharazonV: Trouble Brews Up North.
VardaValar1: Morgul being evil magic / sorcery if we like.
VardaValar1: Morgul Lunchbox, there we go.
ArPharazonV: Witch King action figure?
ArPharazonV: Now with rubber fel beast.
AriehnV: whats that a Ringwraith on a barrelsized Nazgul :-)?
AriehnV: called Lunchbox hehe
VardaValar1: ohh, rubber fell beast!
karakedi25: Would the WK be there at this time? Wouldn't he be with the rest of the Nine?
Eonwe Valar: The Witch-King wouldn't be in Angmar at this point, no.
VardaValar1: The Witch-king would not be there, aye.
VardaValar1: Just his action figure on the rubber fell beast. :-)
Eonwe Valar: Angmar is supposed to be pretty much a dead kingdom at
this point, but that doesn't mean evil doesn't still stir there.
ArPharazonV: I suppose the Nine, dismounted, are making their way south now.
karakedi25: In fact, Eonwe, we're assuming that there is evil there, for story purposes, at the very least
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
ArPharazonV: *Unless* they actually recovered in Angmar after their
defeat at the Ford, took flying mounts, and headed south to assist
ArPharazonV: Which could mean they're right up there when we get there :-)
Eonwe Valar: Pretty sure they headed due south after being unhorsed.
Eonwe Valar: Well, due Mordor.
Eonwe Valar: So more or less Southeast.
ArPharazonV: Aye, probably. But could've been an interesting idea.
karakedi25: They had more important things to worry about than an expedition by unknown elves with unknown purpose.
Eonwe Valar: Agreed. They know where the Ring is. Getting back after it is going to be their primary goal.
ArPharazonV: Of course, but Angmar is closer to Rivendell than Mordor,
so if they still had influence and some forces up there, they could've
headed there for a quicker recovery.
karakedi25: unless Calion's brother was in contact with them, but even
so, they'd be more likely to send a minion, though it might be a
ArPharazonV: But neh, probably not. They're heading south, and have little or no contact with Angmar.
ArPharazonV: Probably a dead kingdom as you said.
Eonwe Valar: The kingdom of Arnor I think was fairly devoid of
"powerful minions" of Sauron, thanks to the Rangers. Maybe not as safe
as strolling through the Shire, but no Sarumans or Mouths of Sauron
ArPharazonV: One does not simply walk into Angmar.. there is evil there... that has been sleeping for the last 1500 years?
Eonwe Valar: hehe
VardaValar1: Who brought the alarm clock? /smackhead
Eonwe Valar: I guess "War in the North" is already taken, hehe.
VardaValar1: My WoW is updating. Bilbo, Arien, and Eowyn are in WoW already.
ArPharazonV: Aw, that could've worked, Eonwe ;-)
VardaValar1: War might be a bit much considering our numbers. Skirmish in the North? : )
karakedi25: Battles in the North?
ArPharazonV: Yeah, it's been updating a lot this week. I wonder if that means patch is coming.. soon.
karakedi25: Skulduggery in the North?
galdorandwe: Dead Reckoning?
Eonwe Valar: Journey North?
Eonwe Valar: Northern Exposure? :}
ArPharazonV: What, like the WoW achievement?
Eonwe Valar: I was thinking like the 80s'ish tv series.
ArPharazonV: Well, I would assume the achievement's title is based on that.
galdorandwe: Oh, that was a great show...abit heady for the middle-american NASCAR crowd, but still great
VardaValar1: Morgul Ruins?
galdorandwe: That's a good one
ArPharazonV: Why Morgul, anyway? When I hear Morgul my mind goes a lot further south than Angmar.
VardaValar1: It means evil sorcery.
galdorandwe: I believe it was inrefeence to the Morgul vale...Minas
Morgul..etc...the location was south, but I believe the Witchking had a
base of operations in the north on a mt. Carn? I'm sure that's wrong,
but it's at the upper end of the misty mountains
ArPharazonV: Well I know it means sorcery, but I've never heard the word used in reference to Angmar.
ArPharazonV: So calling our story something with Morgul in the name could be confusing to readers.
VardaValar1: Got in WoW and it says Patch 4.2.2 Rage of the Firelands
VardaValar1: Morgul knife?
VardaValar1: We have readers? :-)
ArPharazonV: We could have readers :D
VardaValar1: Morgul is not equal to Mordor.
ArPharazonV: I always assumed the Morgul knives were named that because
at the time, Minas Morgul was the homebase of the Ringwraiths, and one
could assume that the knives were actually crafted in the vicinity of
VardaValar1: Maybe we need to have our lore-master tell about the
meaning of Morgul while we're in Rivendell? Some of that kind of
sorcery may have been on the sword, not as bad as the one that stabbed
Frodo, of course.
galdorandwe: What was the name of that Mt. in the North where the Witchking had a base of operations?
VardaValar1: We had a sign at work, "Never assume". ;-) Sometimes we paid attention to it.
galdorandwe: Around the Fall of Arnor.
galdorandwe: BRB..getting book
karakedi25: The morgul knives were so-called because they were instruments of dark sorcery
karakedi25: There was the mountain where the dwarves fought the orcs
karakedi25: Not recalling its name
galdorandwe: Mount Gram
karakedi25: hence LotRO's Gramfoot?
galdorandwe: and Carn Dum
karakedi25: wasn't that a stronghold of the Rhudaur folk?
galdorandwe: Now you've got me spinning around
ArPharazonV: like a record baby...
VardaValar1: Elwing is in WoW also
karakedi25: Carn Dum, that is
galdorandwe: right round right round
galdorandwe: Thanks Phar :-)
ArPharazonV: Very well then, I suppose Morgul does work, if you remember the actual meaning.
VardaValar1: Don't have to use Morgul.
galdorandwe: how is it that there are only 4 of us on LoTRO in kin right now?
karakedi25: the WoW people are on WoW or en route
karakedi25: I'm not on the server atm
karakedi25: so to speak
karakedi25: Has anyone banged the gavel for aftermeeting?
karakedi25: since things seem to have slowed way down
galdorandwe: lots of side coversations going on
VardaValar1: *bangs gavel*
VardaValar1: Sorry, we discovered we had a hacker in WoW, took Merry's account. I phoned him and we're looking into it.
karakedi25: I hope you get it straightened out soon.
VardaValar1: Working on it, thanks. :-)
VardaValar1: Sorry, really meant to bang the gavel a while ago and got caught in this thing.
VardaValar1 has left the room.
karakedi25 has left the room.
galdorandwe has left the room.
AriehnV has left the room.
ArPharazonV: bah, too late [Not too late if it's in the transcript. ^^]
ArPharazonV: saving and sending transcript