November 20, 2011 Sunday Meeting
5pm EDT (GMT - 5)
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AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
Transcript work by Ar-Pharazon and Varda.
Topic: Death has been said to be a major theme in Tolkien's works. Do
you folks see any indication of this? It had to be present simply
because the stories usually dealt with times of war.
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1: Aiya Phar :-)
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Eonwe :-)
Eonwe Valar: Heya.
AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Arien :-)
AriehnV: Aiya Varda :-) and rest of course
ArPharazonV: Aiya Arien
AriehnV: Aiya Phara and Eonwe
VardaValar1: Galdor is afk
Eonwe Valar: Heya Arien.
galdorandwe has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Galdor :-)
AriehnV: aiya Galdor :-)
Eonwe Valar: Heya Galdor.
galdorandwe: I'm kind of in and out...cooking dinner...I know, it's
liek a broken record with me at these meetings, but we eat at this time.
VardaValar1: Scrolling is a handy thing :-)
galdorandwe: Making steak sandwiches...has the butcher shave the meat
about an hour ago...yum....the smell of onions is permeating the house
VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Ulmo quit.
VardaValar1: New Full member joined, Hamson-(V)
VardaValar1: Hamson is a nice guy and re-read the LotR so he could do better on the test.
VardaValar1: I think you'll enjoy his company. ^^
galdorandwe: That's great.
AriehnV: Nice to hear
AriehnV: that Hamson is a nice guy i mean .. not that Ulmo quit , but it doesnt surprise me
ArPharazonV: While I've not been part of the LotRO drama, and I've not
had a chance to meet Ulmo, it doesn't really surprise me either after
reading the forum posts.
galdorandwe: Regarding Ulmo:
ArPharazonV: Seen too much WoW raid drama to see where it was likely going
VardaValar1: Reminds me, I need to remove Ulmo's two Member of Honor
kids from the membership rolls because of this. They never show up
anyway, so it's purely paperwork.
galdorandwe: I've had numerous conversations with him over the past 6
months and each of them led me to believe we would not meet his need to
raid. That being said, we have begun to raid on Saturdays in LoTRO and
he had been a part of those raids...still it doesn't seem to be enough.
Add to that his slightly acerbic tone...well you ca see how some people
might not like that. I will say this: He's always been very helpful to
me and has given me great gaming advice that has made me the player I
am today. If he hadn't helped me out, I probably would have made many
mistakes along the way he helped me avoid. Plus, he is patient with me.
All of his toons are still on my friends list in game. While I can't
condone his behavior, I have to say it saddens me that it came to this,
for him and the kin.
AriehnV: aye i actually never seen him say an unkind word while i met him and i met him a few times
AriehnV: well things happen
Eonwe Valar: What happened happened.
VardaValar1: Actually we've lost very few folk lately. Used to drop about 100 Full members and 100 Tolkien onlies a year.
VardaValar1: mainly for inactivity.
karakedi25 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Indis
AriehnV: Aiya Indis
VardaValar1: We were just in Membership. Ulmo quit but we have a new member, Hamson-(V).
karakedi25: did he quit the overall Valar Guild, or just the lotro kinship?
VardaValar1: He's out.
VardaValar1: He had stopped doing anything outside LotRO anyway.
VardaValar1: A long time ago.
VardaValar1: Any further membership news?
VardaValar1: I may be gone Tuesday for a funeral of a friend, if I can get a ride that far.
VardaValar1: Thanksgiving in the USA is Thursday.
karakedi25: I'm leaving tomorrow for a trip to California, away 11/21-28.
VardaValar1: Should be nice in California, I think?
karakedi25: I'll be on Pacific time, and spending time with family, so
my attendance, participation, presence, etc. is unpredictable.
VardaValar1: No worries.
karakedi25: Should be--I call the area I come from 'God's country.'
VardaValar1: That you can show up at all is rather amazing during those times.
VardaValar1: Me too, but it's also called "Texas". ;-)
VardaValar1: Good to love our homes. :-)
VardaValar1: Any other Membership news?
VardaValar1: Expect spotty attendance from all the Thanksgiving travelers and cooks.
VardaValar1: <--- cook
AriehnV: Considering to find
another job and moving maybe away from skye within the next few months
depending on how long either Bruce or I take to find a job
VardaValar1: That's major news.
VardaValar1: Hurin is moving to
a new house, be a bit before they have internet set up. He did slip in
from the internet at his old house just for the raid. ;-)
AriehnV: Bruce is working from at home at the moment but he thinks it has something for itself if he is leaving for work ^^
AriehnV: also that we might maybe able to save something aside and make real holidays maybe or something for our old age ..
AriehnV: you know thoughts like that :-)
VardaValar1: Good luck to you both!
AriehnV: thanks :-)
VardaValar1: Merry's plane is finally out of the shop so he may be able
to start back to work for himself again soon. It still needs a bit of
VardaValar1: Anyway, we begin to digress. : )
VardaValar1: We have some stories that are coming in but incomplete, just the first chapter or two. Nothing to show yet.
VardaValar1: I'd like to see articles even more than stories. : )
VardaValar1: Any non-WoW, non-LotRO news for this past week?
VardaValar1: SC2 for Bilbo and Sauron
VardaValar1: BW for Fangorn, Sauron, and Varda
ArPharazonV: Few flashgames, bit of Touhou also if I wanted a break from other stuff.
VardaValar1: Thanks Phar : )
Glorfindel VG has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Glorfindel!
Glorfindel VG: Aiya :-)
VardaValar1: Still doing music? : )
VardaValar1: We were just asking what non-WoW, non-LotRO games folks
had been playing this past week, if you want to mention any.
Glorfindel VG: Wish I could say I was :-\
VardaValar1: Maybe you can say it next week for some game. : )
VardaValar1: Surely you didn't mean music?
Glorfindel VG: I did
VardaValar1: Well, start humming! Get a comb and tissue. Saw and bow. Beat two rocks together. :-)
VardaValar1: Sorry, hope things work out for you.
VardaValar1: On to the LotRO reports:
VardaValar1: Still free to play and looks as if it's here to stay, along with the paid types.
VardaValar1: Monday afternoon we had a number of runs.
VardaValar1: Two runs for the Culling Pit, as people keep coming up to needing that on their alts now.,
VardaValar1: two six man skirmishes:
VardaValar1: "The Battle in the Tower" and "Assault on the Ringwraith's Lair"
VardaValar1: Those were especially fun because one continues the story from the other.
VardaValar1: Wednesday we tried a 6-man Great Barrows: Maze. Decided we needed better kiting that we had in that particular group.
VardaValar1: and of course the 3-man School and 3-man Library runs.
VardaValar1: Saturday is our big day now, lots show up for the 12-man runs.
VardaValar1: We have enough people so that when some can't be there or have to go, others can step into their spots. Works well.
VardaValar1: We did "Tuckborough", "Battle in the Tower", and "Breaching the Necromancer's Gate"
VardaValar1: Melkor-(Valar) finally got his Worn Symbol of Celebrimbor, a drop from the last raid.
karakedi25: (major crafting item, for those who don't know)
VardaValar1: He's a happy camper, promptly used it to make his rune-keeper's satchel. :-)
VardaValar1: Then the usual School and Library 3-mans afterwards because we just can't stop. ;-)
VardaValar1: Any other LotRO news, comments, suggestions?
VardaValar1: If not, on to WoW
VardaValar1: Eonwe, go ahead
Eonwe Valar: Thanks.
Eonwe Valar: First, WoW's 7th Anniversary is this week.
Eonwe Valar: You should be able to log in now and check your mail for
an item that gives you a different visual for your tabard and boosts
Eonwe Valar: *and exp
karakedi25: I think you covered it pretty well, though I've been in the
public test and know a bit about what's coming in update 5. (Sorry,
phone rang when I began to type; I can continue when the WoW report is
done, if wanted.)
fladrifv has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: It looks like the item only works during the Anniversary celebration.
ArPharazonV: Cheap Blizzard.... no pet this year :-(
Eonwe Valar: We're also expecting 4.3 sooner than the typical Blizzard Soon(TM).
Eonwe Valar: Potentially as early as next week.
Eonwe Valar: Lothar:
Eonwe Valar: Sunday Run: We didn't have enough to continue ICC last week, so we had a free night. Eonwe, Elwing, Fangorn, and Varda were on.
Eonwe Valar: Friday Run: I didn't make it in time, but Glorfindel told me he, Sauron, and Bilbo ran some heroics.
VardaValar1: Glorfindel? How cool :-)
Eonwe Valar: Aye :}
Eonwe Valar: Tonight, we're going to try and pick up at the Gunship
again. if we don't have enough to do that again this week, I'm just
going to let the lockout lapse and we can pick up at the beginning
again for the rep.
Eonwe Valar: That *should* be it for my report.
VardaValar1: Thank you, Eonwe :-)
VardaValar1: Any other business, comments, suggestions, plans to add to the Tolkien Site?
AriehnV: thats cool that Glorfindel came on .. i thought he stopped wow completely
Glorfindel VG: Everytime I think I'm out, it pulls me back in!
Glorfindel VG: hehe
Eonwe Valar: :}
Glorfindel VG: I kid
VardaValar1: Now we just need to get you into LotRO... ;0
Glorfindel VG: I believe I have a level 6 character
Glorfindel VG: Haven't played in ages
VardaValar1: Feel free to mash buttons in LotRO again sometime. : )
AriehnV: well i am considering giving up wow us :-( , its just too hard
to stay awake for the the guild runs .. i hate just to abandon you guys
and make your small number even smaller , but those raids for me very
often dont start until I am my time and by the time we get through two
instances its like 3.30 am or later .
VardaValar1: If there is no further business?
VardaValar1: ah, understood Arien
AriehnV: and for the time i am there otherwise its not worth paying the subscription
Glorfindel VG: Can always play at level 20 for free, right?
AriehnV: well even if i am off the next two days the missed out sleep that night takes a bit revenge i fear
AriehnV: trial version?
Glorfindel VG: Aye
AriehnV: aye that would be of course an option but still would have the time problem and could not join the guild
Glorfindel VG: can't join guild on a trial?
Eonwe Valar: Probably not.
Glorfindel VG: bummer :-\
Eonwe Valar: Would be too advantageous to goldsellers and other scammers I think.
AriehnV: yup i agree
AriehnV: on trial account your also restricted in communication
AriehnV: cant use mailbox and whisper only people that you have in your contact list
VardaValar1: The main problem is the time of day anyway.
AriehnV: and cant use public channel
AriehnV: so pro bably couldnt speak in valar channel either
Eonwe Valar: Anyway, thanks for joining us on Lothar as long as you
did, Arien :}Your chars will be in the guild branch for future
AriehnV: that would be great :-D
Glorfindel VG: You will be missed
VardaValar1: Aye, a definite hole. But we understand the problem.
AriehnV: we ll see if i remember to unsubscribe anyway , lol
VardaValar1: Save some money for moving that way, maybe. Buy a hamburger for traveling.
AriehnV: i dont do this really for pleasure or annoyance honestly
AriehnV: i enjoyed the runs i had with you and "meeting the family"
Glorfindel VG: No worries. A good break from Wow once in a while might be good
Eonwe Valar: And we on Lothar enjoyed having you there :} I completely understand about the time issues though.
AriehnV: ah well i wont give up wow tho ^^ , i ll be hyperactive on wow europe and lotro we ll still meet ::-)
ArPharazonV: Always welcome in Europe :-)
AriehnV: and there is also a slight issue with trying to keep the
interest on the credit card a bit lower with which i pay both WoW US
and EvE online
AriehnV: so if i can maybe reduce the cost on the card a bit i might be able to pay more off there
AriehnV: if you see what i mean
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
AriehnV: so thats my thinking in that this might be a way ... and as i say we still game together in LotrO
AriehnV: and if my characters stay in the guild the comeback is always a possiblity :-)
VardaValar1: The time problem is not likely to go away even with your move, unfortunately.
AriehnV: unfortunately not ... no , it will be impossible to very hard to raid with you in some future moment lol
AriehnV: but maybe .. maybe
AriehnV: questing and the odd normal instance or skirmishes
AriehnV: still possible
VardaValar1: We'll leave that to the future. :-)
VardaValar1: On to
VardaValar1: Death has been said to be a major theme in Tolkien's
works. Do you folks see any indication of this? It had to be present
simply because the stories usually dealt with times of war.
ArPharazonV: Well, there is mortality vs immortality, aging vs unaging,
spending eternity in this world or going to the beyond...
Eonwe Valar: The end of the Elves' time in Middle-Earth.
Eonwe Valar: The passing of an Age.
VardaValar1: Jealousy because some die and see others who apparently don't.
Eonwe Valar: Aye.
ArPharazonV: The death of the Trees, heralding a weakened light and purity, in a way.
VardaValar1: Aye, a passing of a more friendly time.
Eonwe Valar: The Rings, particularly involving the Nazgul, had that attached to them.
VardaValar1: They knew for sure that Morgoth was no longer one with the other Valar.
VardaValar1: True, a form of near death.
VardaValar1: Barrow-wights possessed the bodies of the dead.
Eonwe Valar: Even the Elven Rings had it to an extent though. The Elves
saw *their* Middle-Earth passing away, and created the Elven Rings in
particular to try and prevent it.
karakedi25: There seemed to be an obsession among Men about death, along with the envy of the elves and the Valar.
VardaValar1: At least in Numenor
karakedi25: And of course there's much about the 'undead' (wights,
wraiths, etc.)-they play a major role in the stories, especially LotR.
Glorfindel VG: Great tombs as an attempt to preserve the dead among men
VardaValar1: Sauron pushed what was already a bit of a peeve into something huge.
karakedi25: Elves saw immortality as a growing burden in Endor.
ArPharazonV: The history of Men was plagued with the theme of death.
Not just in Numenor, but one of the oldest stories of Men dates back to
a time when Death caused many Men to join Morgoth, according to one of
the tales in the History.
VardaValar1: Which story was that, Phar?
ArPharazonV: Pooh, let me think..
karakedi25: I think it's hinted at at least in the story of Finrod and Andreth (sp?).
ArPharazonV: Andreth, that's the name I was looking for.
ArPharazonV: I think it was related to her.
ArPharazonV: If that's the spelling.
Eonwe Valar: I remember that one saying that Death was *because* Men followed Morgoth and forsook Eru.
ArPharazonV: The Tale of Adanel, I mean.
Eonwe Valar: I don't recall that one off the top of my head.
ArPharazonV: I think it was about how Morgoth used the fear Men had for
darkness, and death, and departing this world, to get them to follow
him. It was the original sin, and while the Edain escaped from this,
most of the Men ended up under Morgoth.
ArPharazonV: quick search gives me http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Tale_of_Adanel
Eonwe Valar: Sounds like the one I was just thinking of.
VardaValar1: Phar, I read the story, and what you said sounded right.
ArPharazonV: Yes, a related theory to it was that Men were originally
as immortal as the Elves, but were made mortal by or because of
Morgoth. This of course would have clashed with Eru's greater plan for
them, as it was a pretty radical change to their destinies.
ArPharazonV: It also added to their fear of death, if they thought Morgoth was behind it all.
VardaValar1: Morgoth and Sauron wanted Men to think they had lost
immortality. They did not want Men thinking of it as a gift, Fear and
anger and hope are all good controlling mechanisms, if data is wrong.
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Bah. Did I miss anything while disconnected?
ArPharazonV: ArPharazonV: Yep.Eonwe Valar has left the room.Eonwe Valar
has left the room.Eonwe Valar has entered the room.Eonwe Valar: Bah.
Did I miss anything while disconnected?
Eonwe Valar: I saw that, so I guess I missed nothing.
galdorandwe: The gift of death was puzzling to the elves, if I'm not
mistaken. They had no idea what became of men once they left the
confinds of Middle Earth. I also seem to recall that they might have
been slightly confused by it since they wen to the Halls of
Mandos....but then again, so did Beren at one point. I'm sure some of
you can fill in the blanks there.
Eonwe Valar: Aye, Man apparently did pass through the Halls of Mandos, though they had separate halls.
VardaValar1: Right, Men stopped by the Halls to reflect, then went on to places Elves could not follow.
galdorandwe: That remind me of an old joke.
Glorfindel VG: care to share ?
Eonwe Valar: Assuming it's suitable for Valar :}
Glorfindel VG: aye
VardaValar1: You would know if it is or is not. :-)
Glorfindel VG: What I find interesting is the nature of man's memory,
as it relates to that of the immortals. Being mortal, with a fixed life
span, their memories are weaker, perhaps, to prevent them from dreaming
their lives away
ArPharazonV: Hmm, it's not just memory that's weaker, though. The fear
of Men, bound in body, seems weaker than the fear of the immortal races
in many aspects. Memory is probably just an aspect of that.
Glorfindel VG: And drive, ambition too, I think
VardaValar1: The elves would walk in memory dreams as a form of wakeful sleep. We saw that with Legolas.
galdorandwe: A bus rolls over killing everyone on it. Passing theough
the pearly gates, St. Peter takes the group of newly departed on a tour
pointing out the various groups grouped together in certain regions,
"If you look over here, we have the Chinese and Buddhists. Over there
are the Jewish folks..and just over there are soem
Australians...eventually the group comes across a gigantic brick wall
that seem to tretch upwards and outwards for hundred of miles. One of
the newley deaprted asks, "What's on the other side of that wall?" St.
Peter in a nervous tone pulls his finger to his lips and says,
"SHHHHHHH!!! The Catholics are on the olther side of that wall. They
think they're the only ones in here!"
Eonwe Valar: fear = plural of fëa I'm assuming, to be clear (since "fear" is distinct from fëar")
Eonwe Valar: I've heard that one.
ArPharazonV: yes, sorry, I was not sure where the accent would go so I just left it blank
Glorfindel VG: Very good :-)
Eonwe Valar has left the room.
VardaValar1: Eonwe is having some connection problems, sorry.
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Shall we call it here?
Eonwe Valar: Probably a good time.
VardaValar1: Little silvery hammer from Elwing. :-)
karakedi25: *cocks an ear*
VardaValar1: Indis had a thought about the rp. Go ahead Indis
karakedi25: I wasn't here for the discussion about the next leg of the
trip, but I read that there might be a question about why Auros would
stay with the Mirkwood group...
karakedi25: and it seemed to me that this could well be the kind of
thing Elrond would want someone on the spot for, since it could portend
worse than a local possession problem.
karakedi25: So Auros would go as Elrond's agent.
karakedi25: afk a sec, checking on dinner
karakedi25: Sorry, Varda says you came to that conclusion last time, so
my apologies for missing it and bringing it up again. Shouldn't skim!
VardaValar1: You said it more clearly, thanks for doing that!
galdorandwe has left the room.
fladrifv has left the room.
ArPharazonV: saving and sending transcript