January 30, 2011 Sunday Meeting
5pm EST (GMT - 5)
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AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
Transcript work by Ar-Pharazon and Varda.
ArPharazonV, Eonwe Valar, Galdor-(V)/galdorandwe, Indis-(V)/karakedi25,
Menelvagor Valar, VardaValar1 (presiding)
Quite a few members had news including ones not actually present at the meeting..
New articles, poetry with art, stories.
When we read Tolkien's works, we tend to be drawn into the setting as
much as the plot. Is that so for you too?
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Phar and Menel :-)
karakedi25 has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar has entered the room.
Eonwe Valar: Heya.
AriehnV has entered the room.
AriehnV: aiya all :-)
ArPharazonV: Hmm, just noticed something happening to my screen.
ArPharazonV: On dark background, one can just see that there are
like... waves of darker color going down the bottomhalf of the screen.
ArPharazonV: Think there's something wrong with my monitor.
Eonwe Valar: That doesn't sound good.
ArPharazonV: Wonder how long it's been going on. You really need to stare at it to see it.
VardaValar1: Aiya Arien, Eonwe, and Indis.
ArPharazonV: can't even see it on white background
karakedi25: Aiya Varda
AriehnV: so its very subtle
AriehnV: but doesnt sound nice
Menelvagor Valar: Aiya
Menelvagor Valar: Sorry bout being a tad late, was a bit tied up ^^
AriehnV: nae worrys lad ... dinnae ask me when i usually come in :-)
AriehnV: ask Varda
VardaValar1: Let's start. And for whens, we can always look at old transcripts. :-)
VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Dwalin-(T) said hello yesterday by email and now is a Facebook contact. Still working in the comic book art field.
VardaValar1: Pallando will be going back to barracks life in a month and on a netbook that's good for little else than zombies vs plants.
VardaValar1: Menel, you had news?
Menelvagor Valar: yush.
Menelvagor Valar: Okay... now this is probably going to be a rather big shock...
Menelvagor Valar: But, as I told Varda, I met a girl last week :-)
ArPharazonV: *is blown away*
ArPharazonV: didn't you already have a girlfriend?
Menelvagor Valar: or well... not really met... we met about a half year earlier.
Menelvagor Valar: nope, she be my first.
Menelvagor Valar: but that isn't exactly the shocking news *wink*
ArPharazonV: Hmm. Thought you even had a picture of her on your msn for a while...
AriehnV: ur going to leave us
Menelvagor Valar: That was a lady friend of mine, never my girlfriend :-)
Menelvagor Valar: and, no, I am not.
AriehnV: so u can spend time with her?
Menelvagor Valar: Not even my future wife can make me leave you guys.
Menelvagor Valar: which IS the shocking news.
Menelvagor Valar: thanks!
karakedi25: You work quickly, I see.
AriehnV: congrats :-)
ArPharazonV: Aye, you do. 6 months isn't a very long time. But I guess it could be long enough.
Menelvagor Valar: Never imagined it to be that fast tbh.
Menelvagor Valar: uhm...
Menelvagor Valar: Pharzie...
Menelvagor Valar: we have been in a relationship since last monday.
ArPharazonV: That makes it.. quite a bit faster.
Menelvagor Valar: Aye.
AriehnV: my sister met her future husband at icehockey game and he
asked her to marry and have his child in the break between sections ;-)
AriehnV: now that is fast :-)
Eonwe Valar: I wish you only the best, Menel.
Menelvagor Valar: the same game?
Menelvagor Valar: Thanks Eonwe.
VardaValar1: Good luck to you both, Menel.
Menelvagor Valar: I will work really hard to make a Tolkienite out of
her... but I'm not going to push anything against her will.
AriehnV: so do i Menel from all my heart and may the light of the sun
always keep your relationship tempered and comfortable for both :-)
Eonwe Valar: That is indeed fast, but I trust the decision was not made lightly.
ArPharazonV: Yes, good luck to you both, may the marriage last a lot longer than the regular dating :-)
ArPharazonV: I hope it's all you want it to be!
Menelvagor Valar: It wasn't... heart, soul and mind are in agreement.
Menelvagor Valar: I hope it's less hoping and more reality *grin*
Menelvagor Valar: still feels a bit unreal at times :-)
AriehnV: i can imagine it would be
VardaValar1: In a somewhat similar bit of news having to do with married life, He that Walks Unseen-(T) and his wife have a baby now. : )
Menelvagor Valar: At any rate... we haven't set a date yet... but since
I've known you guys (those present here) for a long, long time, you're
all invited to the big day :-)
Eonwe Valar: Hehe, congrats to them :}
Menelvagor Valar: Congrats :-D
AriehnV: congrats :-)
ArPharazonV: Happy birthday to He that Crawls Unseen.
VardaValar1: Airen has news too.
AriehnV: aye it is 41 years one years ago i came to lighten up our world .. or upset it hehe
AriehnV: in other words .. its my birthday and have my day off today and tomorrow
AriehnV: thats it :-)
ArPharazonV: Congratulations :-)
karakedi25: Many happy returns.
Eonwe Valar: Happy Birthday :}
AriehnV: thankies :-)
VardaValar1: Also grats on getting time off for your birthday!
ArPharazonV: Hah, yes, that would be a rare gift.
VardaValar1: Sauron-(Valar) is at the OwlCon gamers' convention all this weekend, expected back tonight. I'm hoping for a tee-shirt from it. :-)
Eonwe Valar: :}
VardaValar1: That was a lot of cool membership news! Thanks for sharing, gang. :-)
Menelvagor Valar: I'm sure he will... he's evil, but not evil enough not to bring his mom a t-shirt :-)
VardaValar1: Any other membership news?
VardaValar1: Lot of side windows going. :-)
VardaValar1: Eonwe, did you want to mention anything for the Games Site?
Eonwe Valar: Nothing at the moment to mention.
VardaValar1: The Tolkien Site has new goodies for this last week.
VardaValar1: Articles: Our own Eonwe-(Valar) gave us a meaty second half to his Elves article:
VardaValar1: While researching other things, I ran across some interesting info and put it up: Purpose and Fate of Man:
VardaValar1: Man as in Mankind in Middle-earth. : )
VardaValar1: Luthien-(T) gave us a poem in English and Sindarin,
neither of which are her native language making it doubly special, as
well as well done.
ArPharazonV: yes, I skimmed through that one, doesn't seem like you
used the oldest legends of men as found somewhere in the Battle for
VardaValar1: Plus she painted an illustration for it.
ArPharazonV: Not sure what the name of that tale was, told by a human
woman to an elven prince during the time of the Silmarillion...
VardaValar1: Song of the Moon and Melian: http://valarguild.org/varda/Tolkien/encyc/poetry/SongoftheMoonandMelian.htm
ArPharazonV: yes, very vague, but well, I'm out of nams
VardaValar1: I used the Silmarillion and Book of Lost Tales 1. More can
be added. And I know which one you meant. Finrod and Andr...
VardaValar1: Andrath? Andraste?
VardaValar1: That needs to be in there too, thanks. :-)
ArPharazonV: ...Something like that.
ArPharazonV: Well, not my place to tell you what to use in your articles
ArPharazonV: but it seemed a fitting element to the theme
Eonwe Valar: Andreth
VardaValar1: That's it. Thanks Eonwe. :-)
VardaValar1: I also didn't do any paintings. : )
ArPharazonV: Yeah, that's the one.
VardaValar1: We have a new poem by He that Walks Unseen-(T) "The White Returns" about Gandalf:
VardaValar1: We have a new story by Branwyn-(T), "The Deserter's Just Deserts":
VardaValar1: So now you guys know why I haven't been gaming as much as usual during Valar time. : )
ArPharazonV: much work to do, it seems
VardaValar1: Also, Eonwe has been doing a lot of program figuring and
we've been considering what we can do to upgrade the Tolkien Site.
VardaValar1: Suggestions for improvements from any of you are very welcome.
VardaValar1: One other thing, the 2011 Membership page is now up but not actually all that updated yet.
VardaValar1: A fair number will probably be dropped, but we've been getting surprise hello's as well.
VardaValar1: Do we have anyone who's played non-LotRO or non-WoW this past week?
ArPharazonV: a few levels of Tasty Planet: Back for Seconds, after finishing the game in casual style, I decided to replay it in timed mode, and getting the gold medals as well.
ArPharazonV: You get medals if you beat a level within a certain time-period, bronze, silver or gold.
ArPharazonV: Obviously, it can get quite hard to get to gold :-)
VardaValar1: If not, it wouldn't be much of a game. : )
ArPharazonV: True, that!
VardaValar1: For LotRO,
Wednesday we had a group get together for the 6-man book, 2.6.8 but
didn't get past the boss. I wasn't in the group, but may be able to
help any who still need it this coming week. Indis also volunteered to
VardaValar1: LotRO is having a bad day today. Indis, could you tell about it?
karakedi25: I was doing an instance around 12:30 when everything went
down. At first I thought it was just me, but I found in Vent that it
was the same for everyone...
karakedi25: the data servers have gone up in smoke (or something), and no one can log in. The update on Twitter says:
karakedi25: Our operations team is making good progress; we're working
to get the games and websites up as soon as possible, thanks for your
patience!19 minutes ago
ArPharazonV: Twitter? Is everything else down? sites and forums?
karakedi25: Actually 39 minutes ago, and it's still down. As I told
Varda, it forced me to do some necessary thing (paying bills,
housecleaning, etc.), but still frustrating.
karakedi25: Yes, forum is down too.
AriehnV: that sounds serious
ArPharazonV: Hmm. Weird to use Twitter for something like that otherwise.
AriehnV: well maybe they have no other means of communication
karakedi25: They use Twitter and Facebook (same messages) for this kind of circumstance.
ArPharazonV: aye, guess so
karakedi25: If the forum is down, what else is there?
AriehnV: mass emails
ArPharazonV: True, that's why I said otherwise.
AriehnV: a no reply message tro all accounts
karakedi25: And they have encouraged the membership to use T and FB for this kind of thing.
VardaValar1: That gets around the problem of their own servers being down, good thinking.
ArPharazonV: Personally I refuse to join either social network, but I guess that works for most people.
karakedi25: That would be very cumbersome. Furthermore, my game mail
comes in on a separate screen name, so people like me wouldn't
necessarily see it.
Menelvagor Valar has left the room.
karakedi25: I dislike social networks, but they're useful for a few things like this. I scarcely ever look at them.
ArPharazonV: I don't even have an account on them. Couldn't look at them if I wanted to :-)
VardaValar1: I find them sometimes useful but don't post much.
VardaValar1: My Facebook page is on the Membership page. If any
Valarite wants to friend me there, please email first saying you are
including guild and Facebook name so I'll know to accept.
karakedi25: Anyway, that's the current state of LotRO. :-(
VardaValar1: Thank you, Indis. : )
VardaValar1: Eonwe, do you have a WoW report?
Eonwe Valar: Nothign is coming to mind, I'm afraid.
Eonwe Valar: Nothign for Lothar anyway.
Eonwe Valar: *Nothing even
Eonwe Valar: Although, my Druid is now 75, if that's something.
VardaValar1: That's cool. : )
VardaValar1: Our Uldaman Horde group was active this week, trying out goblins, bringing in new characters some of which are high.
VardaValar1: Do any of the Europeans wish to mention anything for WoW?
ArPharazonV: I'm at all 346 or higher gear now for tanking, and really getting into tanking in raids again :-)
ArPharazonV: otherwise, not much news, mostly working on my leatherworking at the moment...
VardaValar1: Thanks Phar. : )
ArPharazonV: It could have been past week that Arien and I did a
Shadowfang Keep heroic together, but could also be the week before in
which case we probably mentioned it already.
VardaValar1: Are there any other comments or suggestions for the Site or for gaming?
AriehnV: priestie is 77 but i am unsure about which zone to go to and whether to skip zul drak
AriehnV: thats the one thats with the High Guard :-)
AriehnV: tailoring getting on not too bad so getting there :-) hope i
ll be able to run instances with the Guardians soon with her :-)
AriehnV: else not much new , fair alt hopping from me as usual to give all of them credits and activity
AriehnV: thus endeth my comment :-)
AriehnV: oh yeah did a heroic run shadowfang keep on Justi with Ar Pharazon and some of his raid friends
AriehnV: about which the singers politeness rather be silent ^^
AriehnV: but maybe its a progress that i got some gear and felt a bit more comfortable towards the end
VardaValar1: That is progress. Gear is a lot or most of why you run, and the learning is a huge thing.
ArPharazonV: It went allright... after a while :-) They were right
though, you should start with normal instances to practice if you're
going to switch to or restart a new role.
AriehnV: was healing there and even tho messy most trash was healable
AriehnV: aye have started that
AriehnV: one of the other guys jumped in for bosses
AriehnV: carry on :-)
VardaValar1: If there is no further business,
galdorandwe has entered the room.
VardaValar1: When we read Tolkien's works, we tend to be drawn into the setting as much as the plot. Is that so for you too?
karakedi25: Perhaps the social setting as much or more than the physical one for me.
ArPharazonV: There is definitely a feeling that there is a greater world, a greater context, than the central plotline.
ArPharazonV: Which is quite impressive, since a lot of the local
histories for the past 3000 years were made up virtually as he went
ArPharazonV: that's Lotr, specifically
VardaValar1: He invented the histories to explain his languages, then it continued.
karakedi25: That and his recurrent dream that became the Akallabeth.
VardaValar1: Aiya Galdor. :-)
karakedi25: Hi Galdor
galdorandwe: Hello Indis :-)
ArPharazonV: When you look at the finished result, you get a great
feeling of history, stretching through the Silmarillion, the Akallabeth
and the Lord of the Rings (and appendices, mainly)
VardaValar1: Agreed. That gives it a very deep feeling.
VardaValar1: It adds to the importance of the plot as well, informing it.
ArPharazonV: But when you look at the History, you see that it was
never made as a general history, but as several seperate stories that,
while related to each other, only built up the history as they were
karakedi25: For me, it feels like a real world in which I can become deeply immersed.
ArPharazonV: This goes for the Silmarillion (Lost Tales) as well as LotR's appendices.
ArPharazonV: Quite impressive to see.
karakedi25: Yes, and the rest of HoME
ArPharazonV: Aye, but that's where it starts.
karakedi25: Later volumes of HoME gave me depth into things such as
marriage customs of the elves, languages and their histories (my
favorite aspect of Tolkien's work), and so on.
VardaValar1: He has a huge land that has had drastic changes, peoples moving across with drastic changes.
karakedi25: Morgoth's Ring is possibly the best for that.
AriehnV: history constantly changes and those who live in it make it , willy nilly
AriehnV: that is also very much true in tolkien's works
galdorandwe: For me, it's the amount of detail he gives, yet somehow
still manages to leave room for the reader to use their own
imagination. He is rather adroit at walking that fine line.
karakedi25: Indeed he is.
VardaValar1: He intentionally left out a lot of details in LotRO for
instance to leave us room to imagine and fill it in with our own
stories. It's meant to be a myth that we add to.
AriehnV: But Middlearth is indeed very complex , detailed and thought out but has room for fincion and Lotr Onlne :-)
AriehnV: fan fiction
AriehnV: that is :-(
AriehnV: stupid keys
karakedi25: [LotRO is up]
karakedi25: addicts can stop sweating now
VardaValar1: So I guess this is bye to Indis and Galdor. : )
galdorandwe: BTW...Thongaladh and Marella hit 65 thismorning before disaster struck with LoTRo
VardaValar1: Wonderful! Thanks, Galdor. :-)
galdorandwe: Sadly, CJ is about 350k behind :-)
galdorandwe: Gildor and i were rubbing it in mercilessly :-)
VardaValar1: She'll catch you soon!
VardaValar1: Of course, heh.
galdorandwe: I can't got any higher :-)
karakedi25: [oops, still not up...login screen is up but not working]
VardaValar1: The cap will raise possibly late this year.
VardaValar1: Guess you're still stuck with us then. : )
galdorandwe: do you have inside information?
karakedi25: tried the login screen
karakedi25: We're working to have the games up within the next 2 hours
or so. Websites may also be available within that time frame. More
updates soon!6 minutes ago
VardaValar1: Do you have a favorite social group in Middle-earth? (Getting around saying town, race, etc.)
VardaValar1: Can be in any time.
VardaValar1: Shire, Bree are both intriguing. : )
VardaValar1: Bree for the unusual bringing together in harmony of two races.
galdorandwe: Gondolin always facinated me...
VardaValar1: The Shire for the peace.
VardaValar1: What attracted you to Gondolin?
karakedi25: I've always had a soft spot for the Noldor (not the
Feanorians but the people who became the Gwaith-i-Mirdain and then
VardaValar1: I also liked that Gondolin had a mixed group of Noldor and Sindar.
AriehnV: i like dwarves and elves and Hobbits
galdorandwe: the multiple gates to get in after the hidden
enterence...the fact that it was hidden so well (until it's untimely
finding-out), the eagles protecting it...just seemed like "the land
that time forgot" in that respect.
karakedi25: All of Beleriand was fairly mixed except Doriath and Ossiriand, I believe.
VardaValar1: Aye : )
AriehnV: dwarves are hardy , warrior like , focussed , polite , coureous and courageous but also very crafty
ArPharazonV: I like some of the forest-living groups of Men, like in
Brethil. Seemed rather good living if they could avoid detection.
VardaValar1: Gondolin, the hidden city. A mystery. So much planning
went into it! Into getting ready and secretly moving in, then taking
care of it
ArPharazonV: Related to that, the Druedain are interesting too :-)
karakedi25: Yes they are
galdorandwe: I think if the dwarves were more warrior-like, they'd hve
had a better showing tryign to retake Moria and survived more in number
after their wars with the orcs.
VardaValar1: Aye to both.
AriehnV: hobbits i like for their quickminded ness , their sense of
humour and partying , socialising and being there when u need them even
if its in a very surprising way that noone expects
VardaValar1: The dwarves had low numbers and bad intel. They didn't
realize Balin was in such a strait, or how bad it really was.
galdorandwe: Their pride played a factor as well.
VardaValar1: Hubris, excessive pride, is a major theme.
karakedi25: Among most races, in fact.
VardaValar1: Hubris as a major theme in all the stories, I mean. :-) From the earliest to the last.
galdorandwe: I have an unrelated question that I've always wanted answered about LoTR.
galdorandwe: When Gil-Galad was killed, how exactly did the hand of
sauron, burn him? Was he grabbed by the throat and burned? Was he
choked? Was he struck down?
galdorandwe: I'm jumping all around. My wife just got a Wii so she
could "exercis", but she seems pretty happy playing the word-fighting
game :-) and is tryignt o get me to play...perhaps this is a way for me
to get her to enjoy LoTRo
VardaValar1: There is little to answer with and that is, as you said, very unrelated.
karakedi25: I hope you can get her to enjoy lotro.
galdorandwe: it was on my mind and since I had such learned Tolkein scholars here :-)...
VardaValar1: It's fun being a husband and wife team. I really enjoy it on WoW and wish my husband would play more LotRO.
VardaValar1: Phar and I got into a side chat about the Druedain, heh.
galdorandwe: back to the question posed originally...the setting is
certainly open to one's imagination. For example, I liked Peter
Jackson's imagry, but some of what he showed in Imladris was not what I
AriehnV: i mean Dains folk actually i think , dwarves dont come out very positive in Tolkiens works
galdorandwe: I saw less structures...same with Lotro, but I understand why the game has so many buildings
VardaValar1: No two people will have the same vision. It should mean we can do extremely varied art to show possibilites. : )
ArPharazonV: Looking at the atlas of Middle-Earth, Rivendell did seem
centered more around one somewhat squareish building on the northside.
ArPharazonV: Mostly built on descriptions in The Hobbit (where
Rivendell definitely seems more... diminished, comparing to the movies,
or even to LotR) and LotR.
karakedi25: Not much is mentioned about Rivendell except the Last
Homely House, but surely a substantial enclave needed more than one
VardaValar1: The Last Homely House was the heart and center to me.
Other buildings would have been in service to the library and hosting,
it would seem. And they certainly crafted, such as re-forging Narsil to
ArPharazonV: Aye. These other buildings were practically never mentioned though.
karakedi25: They were major crafters-the remnants of the Gwaith-i-Mirdain after all.
VardaValar1: They weren't mentioned as they had nothing to do with the main storyline.
karakedi25: exactly so
VardaValar1: I can imagine inns, sales of parchment and ink, crafting
areas and sales. And perhaps a small amount of merchandising of said
crafts and travelers' wares.
VardaValar1: Elrond was well off. Maybe he had his hand in some or many of those enterprises.
karakedi25: dwellings, farmland, ordinary crafting like leatherwork etc.
ArPharazonV: And yet they were there, and that's why the movie and
game(s, I might add) added them. That, and because of practical
purposes, I suppose. A movie needs a nice background, a game needs
VardaValar1: Aye. Fishing.
karakedi25: They needed more than the LHH to sustain the community.
VardaValar1: But it woulld have been the main attraction.
karakedi25: it's where visitors would focus
VardaValar1: Scholars would want to come there very much.
VardaValar1: Rangers were welcome there.
karakedi25: One of the things I've always liked best about Rivendell is that it was the most cosmopolitan of the elven enclaves.
ArPharazonV: One can imagine the Homely House, with all its festivities
and feasts and other commodities, drew most of the resources in the
ArPharazonV: Makes me wonder about the state of life in the rest of
Rivendell, since you only see the most prosperous building :-)
VardaValar1: Good point. Festivities and feasts would be major at Riv and need supplies.
karakedi25: elves generally lived well
VardaValar1: They wouldn't have been much in the trees. I wonder if
they dug in a little into the mountainside, not just on the surface.
ArPharazonV: Might be crafters and fishermen and farmers working hard all day long :-)
ArPharazonV: Complaining about the nobles in their high House, just relaxing and telling stories and eating ;-)
VardaValar1: Music was everywhere. Maybe wandering musicians.
galdorandwe: I bet Grey havens was pretty nice too. There were elve enclaves in Harlond and Farlond as well, from what I recall.
karakedi25: I think with the exception of the First Age elves under the
troubles with Morgoth, elves did well for themselves. Their perspective
on time would have made a difference.
VardaValar1: I'm going to copy/paste a side chat on the Druedain, as it is such a rare topic. Permission from Phar already.
galdorandwe: The wildmen?
VardaValar1: VardaValar1: They have the statues of the pukel men to show there is a history.
VardaValar1: ArPharazon-V: That's true. I assume they were more
prominent before the Rohirrim took up residence, even though it was
part of Gondor it never seemed heavily populated by the Gondorians.
galdorandwe: Did they have a female leader at one point? i read something on that it seems.
karakedi25: Tolkien also wrote a story that suggested that they also lived further to the north at one time.
VardaValar1: VardaValar1: The Rohirrim were also not all that numerous
and may have left them alone. They didn't even know the ents were on
their borders. ArPharazon-V: This is true, but the Rohirrim mostly
settled on the southside of Rohan, away from Fangorn and nearer the
Druedain.ArPharazon-V: They may have left them alone, but the Druedain
might have retreated back into their forests regardless of whether
their new neighbours were actually hostile.
VardaValar1: VardaValar1: The Druedain did seem to have moved away,
more towards Gondor.VardaValar1: Aye, like mountain men. O no! A smudge
of smoke on the horizon. People are getting too close!
karakedi25: I believe that the Rohirrim hunted Druedain
karakedi25: wasn't that part of the discussion between the Druedain and
the Free Peoples when they needed to be guided through the mountains?
galdorandwe: There was a legend about them having some special stone
that could summon them or a spirit of them somehow. That sound familiar
to anyone? or a stone one left with a man to guard his home?
karakedi25: that's in the story Tolkien wrote
ArPharazonV: Yes, I remember that one.
ArPharazonV: It takes place in the time of the Silmarillion.
galdorandwe: where was that. It's in a book I have.
ArPharazonV: I'm thinking.. Unfinished Tales?
ArPharazonV: A stone left to guard someone's house, and the stone apparently came to life to protect him during the night.
karakedi25: something like that
karakedi25: part of the point was, I think, that the Druedain had a magic of their own
ArPharazonV: Very interesting style of story. Mysterious. The stone is
never confirmed to have come to life, but all the signs are there..
it's a bit of a ghost story. The magic is there, but not very obvious.
AriehnV: hmm aye part of the personality of the Druadan in question seems rto have gone into the stone
galdorandwe: They had a heightened sense or two, didn't they? Like exellent sight and smell?
AriehnV: havent read this story in a while but i remember it
AriehnV: and also the incident with Baldor and Brego at the entrance to Dunharrow at the realm of the dead
AriehnV: they met this stone figure or rather what they thought to be stone but spoke .. "The road is closed " i think
karakedi25: [LotRO forum is up]
galdorandwe: Wasn't that supposed to be the last King of the oathbreakers saying that?
AriehnV: not sure they who the figure was
AriehnV: think he wrote it undistinctive
AriehnV: didnt say what or who it was suposed to be
AriehnV: theoden told the story to Merry if i remember right
AriehnV: (slightly Buck fizz blurred ^^)
VardaValar1: I'm too much in side windows and digging for stuff to be as helpful talking as I should be.
galdorandwe: Once gain Prof. Tolkein has demonstrated his ability to
create so many side stories within the main story, that the side
stories become main stories in their own right. This is the reason why
all that come after him are merely paying homage to him. Really, how do
you follow these works without borrowning from them?
VardaValar1: He intended it as a mythology for England and that is what it has become, although it is now worldwide. : )
galdorandwe: In the genre, I mean
VardaValar1: You do your best to make your own world, but he set the
tone on many things. One of those is the concept of good high elves.
VardaValar1: It was so much better to work with than all that came previously.
VardaValar1: Amoral high elves, or dumbed down tiny ones.
VardaValar1: Souless elves.
galdorandwe: Keebler ones too :-)
VardaValar1: That's the tiny ones. : )
ArPharazonV: Well, he did start with those. The Elves in the Lost Tales
were the later smaller faeries, and one of the core concepts of the
earliest Elves was them slowly shrinking and fading when becoming
outnumbered by humans.
VardaValar1: Aye, he did work with those concepts as he should, since they were in all the previous mythology.
karakedi25: apparently the elves originated in Anglo-Saxon lore as connected with the dead
karakedi25: way way back
karakedi25: rather sinister in their origins
VardaValar1: Mound elves. Really ghosts.
galdorandwe: The Finland mythos played a large part as well, especially
with the names and figures. That's well documented....Eriol, coming to
Tol Eressa...the England destination and Danish(?) origin of the man
who came there.
VardaValar1: The dwarvish names from the Eddas. Even Gandalf was from that.
VardaValar1: The name Gandalf. : )
VardaValar1: All I meant was yes he wss still working on it.
VardaValar1: Sil is not much help on Aeglos either.
VardaValar1: Pardon, mt. Was for side chat.
karakedi25: the story of Turin Turambar is almost directly from the Finnish epic
galdorandwe: Did the spear end up in Elrond's hands or meet an untimely demise at the feet of Barad dur?
karakedi25: no info, as far as I know
VardaValar1: A number of your questions aren't actually answered in the texts and require speculation.
galdorandwe: Given what he has written about everything else, what can
you predict as to what he would hav written if he had the opportunity
to do so?
galdorandwe: about the spear, I mean.
karakedi25: probably destroyed in Mordor
karakedi25: along with Gil-Galad
galdorandwe: if Elrond could find all the shards of Narcil, I bet he could have found the remains of Aeglos.
VardaValar1: Aeglos was strictly elven and therefore would not be given to Aragorn.
VardaValar1: Aeglos could be in the Last Homely House.
galdorandwe: but the sword's remains were brought back to Imladirs.
karakedi25: for safe-keeping for the Dunedain
VardaValar1: The sword had further use, aye. Prophesy was around when it would be re-forged.
VardaValar1: Prophecy, pardon. : )
galdorandwe: and when did that prophecy come about?
VardaValar1: When the Ring was found.
galdorandwe: by whom was the prophecy given?
ArPharazonV: Kept in a display somewhere in the library, Aeglos? :-)
VardaValar1: Malbeth the Seer
karakedi25: Aeglos was iconic enough that you'd think there'd be mention of it if it survived
VardaValar1: Malbeth was in the days of Arvedui Last-king.
ArPharazonV: How often was the Ring of Barahir mentioned in the books?
I do know it played a part in the Extended Edition of the movies.
VardaValar1: Actually since Aeglos was not in the main storyline, it
could have been left mostly out. It could be in a museum setting in the
Last Homely House.
Eonwe Valar: Iconic to Elves, not so much to Hobbits, from whose perspective LotR was written.
ArPharazonV: the Lotr books I mean.
ArPharazonV: Pretty iconic as well.
galdorandwe: good point
VardaValar1: The Ring of Barahir was King Finrod's ring, given in friendship to Barahir, then used for safe conduct by Beren.
Eonwe Valar: The Ring of Barahir was mentioned in the Appendices with the Lossoth.
ArPharazonV: It made it all the way to Aragorn, did it not?
VardaValar1: Barahir saved Finrod.
galdorandwe: Over the land there lies
a long shadow, westward reaching wings of darkness. The Tower trembles;
to the tomb of kings doom approaches. The Dead awaken; for the hour is
come for the oathbreakers: at the Stone of Erech they shall stand again
and hear there a horn in the hills ringing. Whose shall the horn be?
Who shall call them from the grey twilight, the forgotten people? The
heir of him to whom the oath they swore. From the North shall he come,
need shall drive him: he shall pass the Door to the Paths of the Dead.
ArPharazonV: Only one of the more notable heirlooms of the Edain of the
First Age that survived the fall of Numenor if I'm not mistaken.
Eonwe Valar: It was an heirloom of the King though, so it had a greater
tie to the story as people would be interested in the history of the
line of Kings.
VardaValar1: That quote speaks of Aragorn.
galdorandwe: I can only find two prophecies fo Malbeth and the other
one says little about anthing related. perhaps you can assist me.
ArPharazonV: Anyway, I'll be saving and sending. Getting up somewhat early.
Eonwe Valar: Sleep well Phar.
galdorandwe: "Arvedui you shall call
him, for he will be the last in Arthedain. Though a choice will come to
the Dúnedain, and if they take the one that seems less hopeful,
then your son will change his name and become king of a great realm. If
not, then much sorrow and many lives of men shall pass, until the
Dúnedain arise and are united again."
ArPharazonV: Looking forward to reading the rest of this!
karakedi25: Namarie, Phar
ArPharazon-V (6:42:43 PM): saved [Note: times are in CST. Add one hour for EST.]
VardaValar1 (6:42:43 PM): We got completely off topic. : )
VardaValar1 (6:42:57 PM): Not just a little. heh
galdorandwe (6:43:06 PM): It's easy given the scope of Tolkein's work
ArPharazon-V (6:43:07 PM): I don't know. I guess it could all be seen as part of the original question.
karakedi25 (6:43:23 PM): fun discussion under any circumstnces
karakedi25 (6:43:26 PM): +a
VardaValar1 (6:44:03 PM): Ok, so are we on Narsil reforged now?
VardaValar1 (6:44:19 PM): That's not much about the settings of Middle-earth, but fun.
galdorandwe (6:44:20 PM): I mean, we're talking about
prophecies from a tangential character at best. We're either nerds fo
the highest order or some other term that paints a prettier picture :-)
karakedi25 (6:44:37 PM): lore-monkeys is the current term, I believe
VardaValar1 (6:44:45 PM): It's not the friendly term.
karakedi25 (6:44:46 PM): or Tolkien geeks
karakedi25 (6:44:52 PM): which I was accused of recently
karakedi25 (6:44:57 PM): :-)
galdorandwe (6:45:05 PM): I consider the turd shined :-)
ArPharazon-V (6:45:14 PM): I see us as historians of
a fictional world. Discussing events that happened, the details
therein, and the sources in which the information was written down.
ArPharazon-V (6:45:56 PM): There is no shame in that, even if the history wasn't real :)
karakedi25 (6:46:06 PM): Of course not
EonweValar (6:46:07 PM): Or lore-masters, or
enthusiasts, or just plain fans. I think any of these plus Phar's above
says it well enough.
EonweValar (6:47:10 PM): I neversaw the point in taking an unpleasant term and trying to "uncorrupt" it.
karakedi25 (6:47:26 PM): fans and enthusiasts may not be knowledgeable
EonweValar (6:47:38 PM): And I don't know about any
of you, but I don't bite the heads off of Hobbits, so "Tolkien geek"
doesn't apply to me :}
ArPharazon-V (6:48:39 PM): Well, I hope to see this all added to the transcript, as I have already sent mine!
ArPharazon-V (6:48:46 PM): Namarie all, and happy discussing further :)
VardaValar1 (6:48:53 PM): Namarie :-)
EonweValar (6:48:54 PM): Sleep well Phar :}
VardaValar1 (6:48:55 PM): and thanks!
karakedi25 (6:54:01 PM): [lotro LOTRO We're working
to get the LOTRO game worlds available as soon as possible! Websites
are available but you may experience issues logging in.]
VardaValar1 (6:55:23 PM): People feel free to look up stuff and fill in holes in our Encyc.
EonweValar (6:55:43 PM): Yeah, put Varda to work :}
VardaValar1 (6:55:49 PM): I could just write the
whole thing myself like Elatan did for the Annals of Arda, but that
doesn't make it a group project.
EonweValar (6:56:04 PM): My offer of a mithril flake still stands for LotRO members :}
karakedi25 (6:58:42 PM): what can you ...er... bribe the WoW people with?
VardaValar1 (6:59:23 PM): They're mostly my family and friends in Lothar and Uldaman. I could offer brownies!
EonweValar (6:59:24 PM): I can only "bribe" those on Lothar, but the options range a little wider there.
karakedi25 (6:59:36 PM): mmmmm....brownies
karakedi25 (6:59:44 PM): they taste better than mithril flakes
karakedi25 (7:08:33 PM): afk
EonweValar (7:08:44 PM): ok
VardaValar1 (7:09:07 PM): I can help Eonwe with bribes. : )
EonweValar (7:10:31 PM): :}
AriehnV (7:19:43 PM): hmph bribe :-)#
AriehnV (7:20:05 PM): what lol never mind i have to go now as well sleep weel
AriehnV (7:20:12 PM): getting to sleepy
AriehnV (7:20:14 PM): Namarie
karakedi25 (7:20:19 PM): back and sleep well, Arien
VardaValar1 (7:20:36 PM): Namarie
karakedi25 (7:21:15 PM): The websites are up, but you
may see occasional sitedown pages or have trouble logging in. 7 minutes
VardaValar1 (7:22:04 PM): but can we gaaaaame?
karakedi25 (7:22:40 PM): :-(
VardaValar1 (7:25:47 PM): I need to look away from
the screen for a while. Work means looking at the screen and yes I
worked. Tolkien Site and gaming mean looking at the screen. agh
EonweValar (7:26:13 PM): :}
EonweValar (7:26:23 PM): Enjoy looking away from the screen :}
VardaValar1 (7:26:27 PM): lol
VardaValar1 (7:26:28 PM): ok
karakedi25 (7:27:45 PM): I'm reading now...hoping to return to Middle-earth soon.
VardaValar1 (7:28:03 PM): Maybe a good thing it was down for a bit? : )
VardaValar1 (7:29:19 PM): After-meeting!
EonweValar (7:29:42 PM): :}
galdorandwe (7:31:13 PM): Lotro is on
galdorandwe (7:31:33 PM): Woot
karakedi25 (7:31:36 PM): yay!
karakedi25 (7:31:39 PM): going in now!~
galdorandwe (7:31:44 PM): namarie
karakedi25 (7:34:00 PM): Namarie
VardaValar1 (8:00:19 PM): back
VardaValar1 (8:00:26 PM): It went pretty quiet here.
VardaValar1 (8:00:37 PM): I may just have to go see about LotRO. ;-)
VardaValar1 (8:00:42 PM): Namarie!
VardaValar1 (8:00:51 PM): oops
VardaValar1 (8:00:52 PM): door
VardaValar1 (8:00:55 PM): Sauron's home