January 16, 2011 Sunday Meeting
5pm EST (GMT - 5)
Back to News
AIM: Valar Guild Meetingplace
Transcript work by Ar-Pharazon and Varda.
ArPharazonV, ArPharazonV, Eomer-(V)/dudeman51983,
Galdor-(V)/galdorandwe, Gilraen-(V)/Iryenth, Indis-(V)/karakedi25,
Galdor's topic: search for the entwives
Eomer's topic: the music of creation
You have just entered room "valarguildmeetingplace."
VardaValar1 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Phar :-)
ArPharazonV has entered the room.
dudeman51983 has entered the room.
Iryenth has entered the room.
dudeman51983: Aiya !
VardaValar1: Aiya :-)
ArPharazonV: aiya, heroiccing a bit, will be here soon
VardaValar1: Good to see you all. :-)
VardaValar1: If there's anything you want brought up during the
meeting, please whisper me so that we can be sure to get to it in that
section. If I don't bring it up, remind me!
VardaValar1: Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo!
VardaValar1: Fangorn is back in town
AriehnV has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Does anyone have any other membership news?
VardaValar1: Aiya Arien : )
AriehnV: I am here :-)
AriehnV: aiya all
VardaValar1: Stuff in the works but not to the upload point yet. Eonwe
is still working on his Elf part 2 article, might be why he's late.
VardaValar1: What games did we play this past week that weren't WoW or LotRO?
VardaValar1: StarCraft/BroodWar here.
VardaValar1: Pippin has gotten into the Gothic series and nearly disappeared from LotRO until he completes the three.
VardaValar1: Feel free to just pop in and say what you've been playing.
AriehnV: i played a bit EvE
dudeman51983: Quest for Glory 4
VardaValar1: Also feel free to send in your personal opinion/review of
multi-player games you've been trying out, to Eonwe for the Games Site.
ArPharazonV: some few more browsergames, nothing big
ArPharazonV: We've got WoW news for Europe btw, but I think Arien can handle that
ArPharazonV: since I'm still heroiccing :P
VardaValar1: Ok, moving to WoW then.
VardaValar1: Arien, go ahead.
VardaValar1: (Dude is Eomer)
ArPharazonV: 's about doing instance runs together, got her into a few instances, Stonecore and Vortex Pinnacle I think?
AriehnV: All right , last week a few of the High Guard including
Calaron, our Pharazon here, and Justicia my paladin went to explore the
instance in Vashir
ArPharazonV: ah right, Throne and Pinnacle
AriehnV: Throne of the Tides and Vortex Pinnacle
AriehnV: both really fun instances even tho i enjoyed the Pinnacle more
AriehnV: went both smoothly and both of us completed our quests
AriehnV: thus endeth my report :-) .. ah well yes and i worked a bit on my priest who joined The High Guard
AriehnV: she is 74 now
VardaValar1: Thanks Arien and grats. :-)
VardaValar1: Monday we ran Urugarth, clearing all the way through the end boss, Lagmas.
VardaValar1: Wednesday too many of us couldn't make it for the actual
instance time but on Friday we ran Forgotten Treasury, clearing all the
way through and taking out the Twins. Trolls, not Elrond's sons. :-)
VardaValar1: There are a lot of impulse group runs and tons of questing
and crafting going on all the time, but I'm trying to keep it to mostly
scheduled stuff with a good-sized group of Valarites.
VardaValar1: I'm happy to report that Irmo, Miriel, and Hurin are back from DAoC and into LotRO quite actively.
VardaValar1: Arien, go ahead.
AriehnV: Varda also was kind enough to escort my hunter into Garth
Agarwaen in fulfilment of Sarumans and the Spirits bookquests in
research of the Red Maid
AriehnV: so i am ready to start on book three now i think
VardaValar1: Glad to help.
AriehnV: still a bit fragile for the hillmen quests in there but i suppose i ll get them at some point
AriehnV: thanks again :-) go on pls
VardaValar1: This is more like Membership news, but our musician,
Eomer, has a personal website up now: http://littlelicks.tumblr.com/
dudeman51983: its not much, hoping to flesh it out in the coming weeks
VardaValar1: Very nice start!
karakedi25 has entered the room.
VardaValar1: Aiya Indis
VardaValar1: We are just about to go into Tolkien. Please whisper topics you'd like to discuss.
AriehnV: aiya Indis :-)
AriehnV: i quite like the somber ditty
VardaValar1: We have two suggestions for Tolkien topics that came in from the LotRO group.
VardaValar1: First one we'll take is speculation on the Ents search for the Entwives.
VardaValar1: Second is what did the music of the creation sound like?
VardaValar1: What do we know about the search already made by the Ents for the Entwives?
ArPharazonV: didn't they look for them in the Brown Lands?
VardaValar1: Anyone may speak.
karakedi25: I believe that the Brown Lands were once the entwives' fields.
VardaValar1: Aye, why did they look there and why was it called the Brown Lands?
VardaValar1: Aye Indis
karakedi25: and they were destroyed by evil
VardaValar1: The entwives grew domestic plants and taught farming to Men there.
VardaValar1: Aye, the attack destroyed the farms turning the lush area
into a burned out brown area, and either killed or scattered the
VardaValar1: Apparently the ents believed the entwives were not killed, after searching the Brown Lands.
VardaValar1: Why were the Ents not also in that area at the time of the attack?
ArPharazonV: they didn't like the fields very much...
galdorandwe has entered the room.
VardaValar1: True. What did the Ents like instead of farm fields?
VardaValar1: Aiya Galdor :-)
karakedi25: forests and trees and aiya Galdor
galdorandwe: Aiya Indis....get me caught up
VardaValar1: The wild, free plants and trees, aye.
VardaValar1: We were talking about how the Entwives had once lived in
an area where they made farms and taught Men to farm. But it was
attacked, turned into the destruction of the Brown Lands, and the
Entwives seem to have been scattered, because the Ents surely searched
there and believed them not to be there.
VardaValar1: The Ents were not present because they preferred the wild areas.
VardaValar1: The Ents then went in search of the Entwives. Fangorn tells of this.
VardaValar1: Feel free to pull out a book and look it up.
VardaValar1: Two Towers
VardaValar1: The chapter on Treebeard has the Three Hunters meeting Gandalf in Fangorn Forest.
VardaValar1: But it also has Merry and Pippin's talk with Treebeard.
VardaValar1: The war had made the fields of the Entwives into a desert.
VardaValar1: The Ents called and searched, and even Treebeard says they did so for a long time, so it was long indeed!
VardaValar1: They asked but were told that they had not been seen, or had been walking west, east, or south.
ArPharazonV: ok, heroic over, I'm here..
VardaValar1: The ents more or less gave up the main search and went
back to the wild woods, but now and then would go out on the hunt again.
VardaValar1: Aiya Phar :-)
VardaValar1: Elves made songs about the search and those songs passed
into the songs of Men, so the search was known to the Free Peoples.
ArPharazonV: west, east, or south? interesting, since Fangorn asked of sightings in the Shire, to the north :-)
AriehnV: and i remember that Sam mentioned something about walking trees in the shire his cousing might or might have not seen
AriehnV: Fangorn thought trhat the Entwives would like the Shire
VardaValar1: I wonder if they would consider the Shire to the west or the north? It's not straight north.
VardaValar1: But that's a clue to their not finding the Entwives.
ArPharazonV: Well, if they're North, and the Ents only looked West, East, and South, no wonder they never found them ;-)
VardaValar1: The Ents believe they will be reunited in a land where
both can live and be content, but the foreboding states that it's only
after both lost all they had. And Sauron seemed about to wither the
woods as he had the fields.
VardaValar1: Aye Phar.
VardaValar1: Aye Arien, that the Entwives might like the Shire.
VardaValar1: And there are wild woods around the Shire. :-)
karakedi25: and there was the rumor of the walking tree
VardaValar1: Right Indis
VardaValar1: And we know trees moved in the Old Forest, so many that there was a battle.
VardaValar1: We know of Old Man Willow and many trees that moved in the Old Forest as he would suggest to them.
VardaValar1: So we know of at least two places nearish the Shire.
VardaValar1: I kept hoping Merry and Pippin would mention this to Treebeard.
VardaValar1: Maybe the news finally reached him.
VardaValar1: Treebeard describes the Ents as Treeherders.
ArPharazonV: Maybe the ents will some day end up in the Old Forest in
their search, and the Entwives in Buckland... and they can't find each
other because of the hedge ;-)
AriehnV: included both true tees and Huorns
VardaValar1: I love the little hints we get through the books that suggest they might have a happy ending one day.
AriehnV: Hmmm i wonder whether the High Hag was really only of natural
source .. true the Hobbits planted it together with the Humans of
AriehnV: but that it really would hold away the corruption of the old Forest seems a bit odd
AriehnV: but it clearly did
ArPharazonV: well the trees of the Forest did attack the Hedge at a time
VardaValar1: You lost me on the High Hag. Is that the High Hedge?
VardaValar1: Thanks, and aye, Phar.
ArPharazonV: and if memory serves, the Hobbits cut them back and made a great clearing where they burned a lot of em
AriehnV: yes thats right
AriehnV: the fireclearing
VardaValar1: That's how the Hobbits won the battle, aye.
VardaValar1: Found it. FotR, "The Old Forest". Merry tells the story.
VardaValar1: They had just left the Shire and were on the edge of the Old Forest.
VardaValar1: He says the trees are more alive and aware than they are in the Shire.
VardaValar1: hmm, some of those in the Shire had some amount of that I wonder?
VardaValar1: They watch you.
VardaValar1: They watch in the daylight, although they might drop a branch, or trip with a root or long trailer.
VardaValar1: Feel free to interject at any time, folks. :-)
ArPharazonV: Aw, but you're on a roll :-)
VardaValar1: Merry said the trees were more active at night even when
he was on the other side of the hedge. He heard them whispering to each
other, and it seemed they were passing around news and gossip.
VardaValar1: The trees could move and surround strangers.
ArPharazonV: They also tended to move unseen, creating and blocking pathways, if I recall.
VardaValar1: During the trees' attack on the Hedge, they planted themselves by it and leaned over it.
VardaValar1: So the hobbits cut down hundreds of trees and made a great
bonfire in the forest, clearing a strip along the east side of the
VardaValar1: Afterwards the trees stopped the attack but became very unfriendly.
VardaValar1: Something inside the old forest makes paths but they shift and change.
VardaValar1: Would anyone else like to comment before we switch to the music topic?
fladrifv: just that this ent woke up
ArPharazonV: "Something"? Did Tom Bombadil get all the way through the forest, or did he like to stick to the rivervalley?
VardaValar1: I think Galdor suggested the entwife topic, and Eomer the music topic.
VardaValar1: The something appears to have been Old Man Willow.
ArPharazonV: By way of the trees.
ArPharazonV: I guess that works.
VardaValar1: Tom moved around all over inside of his territory.
VardaValar1: He didn't leave his territory though.
fladrifv: why did he have limited space in the beginning?
VardaValar1: It was his home area.
VardaValar1: I don't think he would claim the Barrows, but he did go
there to help, so he was apparently able to leave if he so willed.
VardaValar1: I think he remained in the area because Goldberry remained there, bound to the watery area.
ArPharazonV: He was strongly tied to his territory, keeping foreign
influences out of it, no doubt. He may not have been as powerful and
carefree if he went too far away.
karakedi25: I think he just wasn't interested in anything too far away.
fladrifv: was the love for goldberry his power?
VardaValar1: I agree, Indis. Nothing to make him interested outside his home area.
fladrifv: so that is what happens when ppl grow old, they stay home
VardaValar1: No, because in the poem about Tom Bombadil he is very powerful before he meets Goldberry.
VardaValar1: More like they stay with the ones they love in the place they love and have made together, as long as they can.
VardaValar1: An interesting comment Tom makes about Goldberry in a song
was that he met her back when her heart was beating, as if later it was
VardaValar1: She was called the River-woman's daughter. Could mean
daughter of a Maia spirit of the river, or daughter of the river by
drowning there and coming back in some form like a rusalka.
VardaValar1: The river-woman could have been anyone from a Maia to a human woman living on the side of the river.
VardaValar1: Galdor says he is having difficulty seeing my typing, but he can see Phar's.
karakedi25: there seems to have been more to Goldberry than an ordinary human
ArPharazonV: could it be the AIM versions?
VardaValar1: One thing Goldberry is not is an ordinary human woman. : )
galdorandwe: I've read somewhere that Goldberry was possibly a river spirit...possibly associated with Ulmo
VardaValar1: Phar has a very early version and I have the most recent. [of AIM]
ArPharazonV: that would make her a Maia?
ArPharazonV: but then, "daughter" of the river...
VardaValar1: But it's speculation.
ArPharazonV: could just be how she presented herself
VardaValar1: JRRT actually pulled them from outside his main writing
into this since he felt an adventure was needed at this point. They
were more like seasons, which makes them both a type of Maia.
VardaValar1: I'm over-simplifying.
ArPharazonV: Born from a single strand of Uinen's hair...
VardaValar1: That's poetic, Phar. I like it. : )
galdorandwe: Bombadil was "Older than all the rest" in Middle
Earth....what exactly would that make him? Pre-elves? Pre-Valar?
Illuvatar's original creation?
dudeman51983: There is speculation that he is an Avatar of Eru
dudeman51983: which tends to ruffle lots of feathers
VardaValar1: The Valar made Middle-earth, so certainly not older than they are.
dudeman51983: rightfully so
galdorandwe: Tolkein said that "not all things can be explained in
life" and that was applicable to Bombadil...perhaps he was having a bit
of fun with religion there. Could have been an inside jooke with CS
Lewis for all we know.
VardaValar1: It's not possible for Tom to be an avatar of Eru, but we don't need to go into that.
VardaValar1: Since we're done with the Entwife search, shall we shift
to the second topic that Eomer mentioned on the song of creation?
VardaValar1: It's somewhat related to what we've digressed into. : )
galdorandwe: Does Tinfang become part of this conversation too at some point? We are talking about the music of ancient times.
dudeman51983: Even more than ancient
dudeman51983: the music that created the world
ArPharazonV: the Ainulindale, insert accents
VardaValar1: Ok, Eomer says he's in and out right now, so maybe another day.
VardaValar1: Tinfang is the very old word.
galdorandwe: Spirit of the ancient world, wary of others but whose music was infectious
VardaValar1: Tinfang is the very old name used way back in Book of Lost
Tales. It's easier to hold a discussion if you use the more current
ArPharazonV: What was his full name again? Tinfang Warble?
ArPharazonV: or am I thinking of the wrong Tinfang? :-)
VardaValar1: Right one
karakedi25: that was his name
VardaValar1: Also Timpinen the Piper
dudeman51983: sounds familiar, though I've not read Lost Tales
VardaValar1: Galdor left for dinner, so perhaps his Tinfang topic is best left til he's around.
VardaValar1: Eomer, didn't you request a discussion on the song of creation?
VardaValar1: The final version of that is in the Silmarillion.
dudeman51983: that I am familiar with
dudeman51983: I picture them all playing theramin(sp?)
VardaValar1: Galdor's been reading BoLT so that's what his mind is still in.
VardaValar1: Electronic, heh.
VardaValar1: Actually the instruments used are mentioned, very much including voice.
VardaValar1: Different Valar had favorite instruments.
dudeman51983: Ahh I need to reread it
dudeman51983: (would be my 3rd time)
VardaValar1: The first two chapters aren't very long and go into the story of the Valar better than almost anywhere else.
karakedi25: My guess is that the 'music of the spheres' (to borrow a term), was probably unlike any music we're used to.
VardaValar1: Here's a sample from the "Ainulindale"
karakedi25: A wider range of frequencies, wider range of tonal conventions, and sounds that we might not recognize as music.
karakedi25: what would have made it music would be that it was systematic and carried meaning
VardaValar1: "Then the voices of the
Ainur, like unto harps and lutes, and pipes and trumpets, and viols and
organs, and like unto countless choirs singing with words, began to
fashion the theme of Iluvatar to a great music;
VardaValar1: "and a sound arose of
endless interchanging melodies woven in harmony that passed beyond
hearing into the depths and into the heights,
dudeman51983: But Melkor sought to bring dissonance
VardaValar1: "and the places of the
dwelling of Iluvatar were filled to overflowing, and the music and the
echo of the music went out into the Void, and it was not void."
VardaValar1: "Never since have the Ainur made any music like to this music, though it has been said
VardaValar1: "that a greater still
shall be made before Iluvatar by the choirs of the Ainur and the
Children of Iluvatar after the end of days.
ArPharazonV: from the first sentence you quoted, they appear not to
have used instruments at all, but simply their voices to sound like
VardaValar1: "Then the themes of of
Iluvatar shall be played aright, and take Being in the moment of their
utterance, for all shall then understand fully his intent in their
part, and each shall know the comprehension of each, and Iluvatar shall
give to their thoughts the secret fire, being well-pleased."
VardaValar1: End that quote.
VardaValar1: Shows a good bit of why the first rehearsal we're in didn't go as well as it should.
VardaValar1: Then it goes into the dissonance of Melkor that Eomer mentioned.
VardaValar1: Ok, as to instruments.
VardaValar1: We have to switch from the "Ainulindale" to the "Valaquenta".
VardaValar1: Manwe: trumpets.
VardaValar1: Ulmo: his great horns called the Ulumuri
VardaValar1: Orome: his great horn is called the Valaroma
VardaValar1: Those are the ones I can find on the spur of the moment from the Sil.
VardaValar1: But the original song seems to have been by voices, as Phar said.
VardaValar1: The sounds of the voices could be described to us familiar with later instruments by those sounds.
VardaValar1: Since the original try was not "played aright" with full
understanding of their parts and each other's and what they were
actually doing, and lacked the voices of the Children, it did not give
an instant creation.
dudeman51983: So the world was not complete?
karakedi25: Not with the first iteration
VardaValar1: Melkor fell into arrogance and selfishness, and made his
music in such a way that it confused those nearby so that they re-tuned
to his or went silent.
VardaValar1: It was just not as perfect as it could have been.
VardaValar1: Eru took the changes of Melkor and worked with them to
create new things that the others would never have thought of such as
galdorandwe: Didn't manwe spin that in a positive way?
VardaValar1: Manwe led the parts of the song that stayed closest to the mind of Eru.
VardaValar1: When we read of the two clashing sections of music, those brothers were the two leading them.
VardaValar1: Brothers in the mind of Eru, not quite the same as we think of brothers.
ArPharazonV: as they were all made by Eru in about the same way, all the Ainur would have been brothers and sisters
VardaValar1: The idea of brothers and sisters had to do with their mindsets.
VardaValar1: Anyway, the music had several parts due to this interaction and Eru's movement into them.
ArPharazonV: Aye, I just meant, in our usual definition of siblings
VardaValar1: Aye Phar
VardaValar1: In the first, the music started as intended and for the
first time Melkor interjected his own to increase the power and glory
of the part assigned to himself.
VardaValar1: The previous melodies foundered in a sea of turbulent sound.
VardaValar1: The music is described a lot like an ocean, fitting as a place where life springs from.
VardaValar1: The two parts of music raged around Eru's throne and he listened, then
VardaValar1: he smiled and raised his left hand.
VardaValar1: A new theme similiar to the first began with new power and beauty.
VardaValar1: The discord of Melkor rose in an uproar against it.
VardaValar1: This was more violent than before and some of the Ainur ceased to sing, and Melkor seemed to have the mastery.
VardaValar1: Then Iluvatar arose again but looking stern and raised his right hand.
ArPharazonV: I wonder what it must be like to have your all-mighty and
all-knowing creator looking sternly at you. Must be very unsettling.
VardaValar1: A third theme grew among the others but unlike them. At
first it seemed merely a ripple soft and sweet in delicate melodies.
VardaValar1: Aye Phar :-)
galdorandwe: Logging off...turtle run...Namarie.
galdorandwe has left the room.
VardaValar1: It could not be quenched, and took to itself power and profundity.
VardaValar1: This caused two musics to form:
VardaValar1: one deep, wide and beautiful, but slow with sorrow from where its main beauty came.
VardaValar1: Now Melkor's had finally attained a unity but loud, vain,
and endlessly repeated. It had little harmony but clamored like many
trumpets braying on few notes.
VardaValar1: Melkor's tried to drown the other out but it's most
triumphant notes were taken by the other and woven into its own solemn
VardaValar1: The halls of Iluvatar shook and a tremor ran out into the silences that had before been unmoved.
VardaValar1: (I've been paraphrasing, real book is better.)
VardaValar1: Iluvatar rose a third time, face terrible to behold. He raised both hands and
VardaValar1: made one chord, "deeper than the Abyss, higher than the
Firmament, piercing as the light of the eye of Iluvatar, the Music
VardaValar1: That's the three themes of Creation.
VardaValar1: Then Eru explained what was going on, not just a wild concert.
VardaValar1: Any theme Melkor played had its uttermost source in Eru and couldn't truly alter the intent of the Music.
ArPharazonV: "I'm glad you're all happy with the music you just made, because now we're building a world out of it!"
VardaValar1: Hehe aye!
VardaValar1: Any attempt to change Eru's music was used to devise things the discordant one could not even imagine.
VardaValar1: Aye, they made a vision of the World, but it was not an
instant creation because they did not fully understand and did not have
the Children singing with them.
VardaValar1: They had to go build it according to the blueprint. : )
VardaValar1: I'm pretty much done. Any further comments are very welcome.
VardaValar1: The two requesting the topics have left.
VardaValar1: If there is no further comment...?
VardaValar1: *gavel rings with a silvery sound all over our creation, giving instant release*
VardaValar1: After-meeting. :-)
ArPharazonV: the gavel rings deeper than the abyss, higher than the
Firmament, and piercing as the light of the eye of Illuvatar?
VardaValar1: I'm no Eru, but it rings pretty well. : )
VardaValar1: I tend to hang out in the Firmament a good bit though.
VardaValar1: Just you and me left, Phar?
AriehnV: i am listening
ArPharazonV: Guess so.
ArPharazonV: Ah :-)
VardaValar1: Thanks for hanging around. Hiya Sunshine. : )
AriehnV: i just am not really familliar with the topic
VardaValar1: Didn't have to be. I hope it helped you all become more familiar with it, since we are the Valar Guild. :-)
AriehnV: sure :-) Gavel with silvery bells sounds interesting
VardaValar1: It's the main thing the Valar did, create a place to live and do things.
VardaValar1: heh, at least that.
VardaValar1: You've heard metal ring with a musical sound; that's what I was aiming for.
AriehnV: i ll have to read the Bolt and the silmarillion again to get more into those kind of things
VardaValar1: I recommend the Sil.
AriehnV: metal has to have melody for me so it has sound ^^ .. sound is not noise , grin
VardaValar1: The BoLT is just gravy to see how JRRT started off
figuring out what he was going to do, background notes. A number of
them were abandoned or extremely changed.
VardaValar1: The Sil I do suggest reading. It has all the Histories boiled down and put together as near as it is possible.
VardaValar1: Take it a bit at a time to digest it. The first two chapters are the Creation.
AriehnV: by the way .. i got a late chrismas present .. "Battlehymns
2011" by Manowar and i absolutely love it .. my tip "Dark Avenger"
somebody very very familiar is reading the narrative part in it ;-)
AriehnV: gives me the shivers
AriehnV: will do Lady of the Stars
VardaValar1: At least check out the first two chapters, o light of the life of Middle-earth.
VardaValar1: Then it moves on to the readying of the world for the First-bon and how Melkor and Feanor muddled up things.
AriehnV: i have read Bolt before tho just been a while , i have noticed the differences,
VardaValar1: They are pretty massive. :-)
ArPharazonV: metal making music... reminds me of the Anvil Song from Animaniacs ;-)
VardaValar1: Many instruments are made of metal: brass, silver.
VardaValar1: I remember the Anvil Song. : )
ArPharazonV: Let the anvils ring!
VardaValar1: Have you heard music done on wood-saws?
VardaValar1: They use a violin bow on a saw, sounds eery.
AriehnV: lol just watching the Anvil song
VardaValar1: Do you have the YouTube url?
VardaValar1: Thanks. :-)
VardaValar1: Ok, going to turn you folks loose so you can get a nap before work. : )
ArPharazonV: I actually meant http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xn-xTJQbR3g but I guess I got the names confused.
AriehnV: aye i am going to turn in too actually , i am pretty sleepy
VardaValar1: Ok : )
ArPharazonV: Namarie :-)
AriehnV: Namarie and thanks for those fun videos ;-)
AriehnV: Christopher Lee is the reader in Dark Avenger
AriehnV: oops Ser Christopher Lee
VardaValar1: Great voice he has!
AriehnV: Namarie :-)
AriehnV has left the room.
VardaValar1: Just watched the Animaniacs. :-)
VardaValar1: Ok, on to make supper.
karakedi25 has left the room.
VardaValar1 has left the room.
fladrifv has left the room.
dudeman51983 has left the room.
ArPharazonV: saving and sending